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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump Downplays Presence Of Virus In White House But Staffers Entering West Wing Must Wear A Mask; At Least Two White House Staffers Test Positive For COVID-19; CDC: Airport Screening In California Wasn't Particularly Effective At Stopping Coronavirus; President Trump Says We Have Prevailed On Testing, As U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 80,000; Interview With Rep. Lucy McBath (D-GA) About Ahmaud Arbery's Case; Vice President Pence Didn't Wear A Mask At Two Events In Iowa After His Press Secretary Tested Positive For COVID-19. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 11, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Time for my favorite time of the night. Giving it to "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon, the man who a single piece of fruit can define his entire identity.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hey, Chris, nice job with that interview. I had the -- his fiance on last night.
CUOMO: I went to school on your interview.
LEMON: Which was an interesting interview because there's so many -- you understand. We don't know exactly what went on. Pretty much from the video you can tell, right? This is the interesting part. I don't understand why the attorney does not understand why his client is of interest.
And this is -- I'm quoting directly. This is from the public release incident report from the Glenn County Police Department. McMichael stated that he and Travis got in the truck and drove down toward Beauford Drive. McMichael stated when they arrive at the intersection of Satella Drive and Holmes (Ph) Drive they saw the unidentified male running down Beauford drive.
McMichael then stated Travis drove down Beauford and attempted to cut off the male. Stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back in the direction from which he came and "Roddie," in quotation marks, attempted to bloom him which was unsuccessful, McMichael stated when they jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to homes in an attempt to intercept him.
I don't know why they would bring him, "Roddie," into this, but you can see certainly just from the incident report, which is a police report which is public, why he would be of interest because he is mentioned. They are accusing him of blocking -- trying to block Mr. Arbery from getting away. CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: And you as an attorney would know that means what?
CUOMO: It means that you're part of whatever happens, and that means you would be in part responsible for any crimes that come there from.
However, what's the other side of the analysis? You're absolutely right. That's what's in the report. That's why I asked the question. Now, look, the lawyer says without letting Mr. Bryan say for himself -- and it's not because of his education. That's the silliest thing I've ever --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That was -- that was insulting to me because my real dad was an attorney like you. My step dad was a mechanic, right? And a pipe fitter. Wasn't the most educated but was one of the smartest people I ever met in my life.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: Go on.
CUOMO: there is zero chance that this man doesn't know and have the wherewithal to say exactly why he was there, what were the circumstances and why --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Why he didn't call 911.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
LEMON: Why he did -- why he did what he did.
CUOMO: Absolutely. And it's not because of the video thing. I wasn't doing that as a stunt. I was showing I could videotape your face right now, stop and then call 911. That's what you do when someone gets shot and killed.
LEMON: And say, get here. Please come and get here, get here. I need to videotape it. Goodbye.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: And then, yes.
CUOMO: And now, look, maybe he did hear the sirens.
LEMON: Who knows.
CUOMO: Look, either the McMichael's are either going to have proof of communication with Roddie about this or not. It's going to turn out that the McMichael's were working with Roddie Bryan or not and it's going to turn out the McMichael's were telling the truth about that or not. Either one could be true.
Right now, my reporting does -- does tell me that Bryan is not a suspect right now. He is considered a witness. That can change and happens all the time. And it is also true but for this tape, Don, this would have been almost certainly a miscarriage of justice.
LEMON: Absolutely.
CUOMO: And there never would have been anything.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: So, this isn't about condemning Bryan or not.
LEMON: It's about getting to the truth.
CUOMO: And it's about figuring something else that McMichael said in that report that you pointed out very rightly. The McMichael's clearly in their head during the moments immediately following their murder of Ahmaud Arbery, a sense that they knew who he was and that they had reason to believe that he was connected to crimes.
Now, let me tell you why that's so important. Not because it excuses what they did. Because it doesn't. But it may provide the groundwork for a prosecution against them explaining why they did something so wrong.
LEMON: Yes. And their state of mind. And, listen, I got to tell you, listen, you and I both know, right --
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: -- you're in the process of doing some renovations. I did some renovations to my home maybe two years ago.
[22:05:01]
To be honest, and this, you know, HGTV renovation, you know, love it or list its society, people do that all the time.
CUOMO: All the time.
LEMON: All the time. They walk on your property. When I come -- I would come home and it would be my neighbors. It would be someone driving by, what are you doing here? Such and such used to live here. I wondered what happened to this house, who bought this house, what you guys are doing. I remember this house is modular.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: It came on trucks. It put it together. All kinds of things. Did I like it? No. But I knew that they were neighbors and nothing was ever stolen but, you know, and on and on. So, you know --
CUOMO: Look --
LEMON: There's a whole lot here.
CUOMO: Here's what we know. People can slow down that tape as they want --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- and make it look as sinister as they want.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And they hoop it as much as they want. Did he seem take anything?
LEMON: No. But even if the guy is running down the street with a television in his hand it's not a reason to be executed.
CUOMO: It is absolutely correct.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And by the way, if you want to follow through the line of thinking, did you see him take anything?
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: Did they find him with anything? No.
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: Did they find him with a weapon? No.
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: And even if they did, were they allowed to do this? That's what the prosecution is going to be about. Now, look, it is fair. I called it a murder. We're not supposed to say things like that until we've had a prosecution. Right now, it's just a killing.
Here's how I feel about this case, OK? In the absence -- not that -- of course they're presumed innocent until proven guilty. This was an intentional killing of somebody for bad reason until we understand otherwise. I'm not a prosecutor. I'm not now and I never was. I'm a journalist. And on the face of this video, this was a man killed for bad reason.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That is known as a murder. We'll see what the prosecution does.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We'll see what the prosecution does.
LEMON: I've got to run, but this one -- everyone feels connected to this one because this one is not one where you say, I'm not sure, I don't know. This is sort of to kill a mockingbird thing, right? You've got a southern town.
You got people familiar with the police department and on and on. There such similarities here that it is really unbelievable. I got to run. We'll discuss more. Great job with the interview. Of course, more to come on the story.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I love you and thank you for making it possible by what you did last night.
LEMON: Absolutely. All right. Thank you, sir. I'll see you soon. Love you as well.
Then is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Here is our breaking news. The death toll from the coronavirus passing 80,000. That's 80,000 people. As the President of the United States is trying to distract from you the facts. Trying to distract you from the fact that the coronavirus is not contained in this country.
It's not even contained in the White House. Where the vice president's press secretary and one of the president's Oval Office valets have both tested positive. But the president in his first coronavirus briefing, this task force, his task force members in two weeks, well, he says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have met the moment. And we have prevailed. Americans do whatever it takes to find solutions, pioneer breakthroughs and harness the energies we need to achieve a total victory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Victory prevailed. Is that, like, mission accomplished? Victory prevailed. The president later saying he meant that we prevailed on testing. But does that make sense to you? Because we haven't.
There is no way that he can claim that on the day, this day, that the death toll in this country has passed 80,000. He can't really claim that. Prevailed? Tell that to the families and the friends of those 80,000 Americans.
But the president who has been cheering on states across the country to reopen, at least 48 of them, by the end of this week. Even as more and more Americans are dying. He wants to pivot to a story of an economy that is going full speed ahead. He is pinning his re-election hopes on exactly that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And we will transition into greatness. That's a phrase you're going to hear a lot because that's what's going to happen. We're going into the third quarter and we're going to do well. In the fourth quarter, we're going to do very good, and next year I think we're going to have one of the best years we've ever had because there is a tremendous pent-up demand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Transition into greatness. Well, it's no making America great again. Look, we all want America to be back in business. But do we really want to reopen at the cost of more American lives? Do we really want businesses reopening before we can actually get tested?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I can follow up on that. Your staff, your senior staff, as you just referenced, is able to get tested every day. When will it be that Americans across the country will be able to get tested every day as they go back to work?
TRUMP: Very soon. I mean, really very soon. It's an interesting question because normally you would have said that you are not tested and you would have been, you know, knocking us for not getting tested. So, if we get tested, it's a problem and if we don't get tested, it's a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Can't just simply answer the question ever. It seems the president just couldn't resist his poor me act, complaining if we get tested it's a problem, and if we don't get tested, it's a problem.
[22:10:02]
Even the middle of bragging about the great job that he's doing on testing. Remember when he said this? This was more than two months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Anybody that needs a test gets a test. We -- they're there. They have the test. And the tests are beautiful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That wasn't true then and it's still not true months later. I've heard people say it's really complicated about the testing and we don't know -- no, it's not complicated. It's not complicated at all. It's very simple. Either everyone in the country can get tested, as he said, or they can't. Very simple. And the truth is it is not true everyone can.
That was months ago. Yet the president says Americans will be able to get tested every day very soon. But he said back then that they could get tested. Now he's saying very soon. And then a few minutes later he flip-flops and says Americans shouldn't want to get tested if they don't have symptoms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: For the most part they shouldn't want to get tested. There's no reason. They feel good. They don't have sniffles. They don't have sore throats. They don't have any problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Maybe that's why people are confused. Because what he's saying makes absolutely no sense. It's not just people who feel sick who need to be tested. We also need to test asymptomatic people. People who have no symptoms at all and have no idea that they could be spreading the virus to others. Research has shown that people with coronavirus may be most contagious before they even feel sick.
The president also wants to have it both ways when it comes to masks. He says he is the one who required staffers to wear masks. You've seen them. There they are. Including Jared Kushner wearing masks in the Rose Garden today but the president himself not so much.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Almost everyone as you noted in the rose garden is wearing a mask today. Why haven't you required everyone at the White House to wear masks before now?
TRUMP: Well, they're a certain distance from me or if there is a certain distance from each other, they do. In the case of me, I'm not -- I'm not close to anybody. I'd like to be close to these two gentlemen. They're hardworking, great men, but they just said, frankly, let's keep it this way.
So obviously, in my case I'm very far away from everyone. But if you look at all of those people over there, every one of them from what I see, these are White House staffers, they are White House representatives, they're White House executives and everybody has a mask on. We've had just about everybody I've seen today has worn a mask.
Yes? Please, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you the one who required that, sir?
TRUMP: Yes, I did. I did. I required it, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do as I say not as I do. He wants everybody else to wear a mask. He just refuses to wear one himself. And you know who wasn't in the Rose Garden today? The vice president. Mike Pence. The head of the coronavirus task force. Even though we know that he was in Washington. We saw him arriving at the White House this morning.
It's a little hard -- there he is. A little hard to see him through all those trees. But he's not wearing a mask, from what we can see. Do as I say not as I do. That's leadership, right? That was sarcasm. Sure seemed to play well with an audience of one, an audience of one in the White House. And then there is the latest example of this president's obsession
with former President Barack Obama. Obsessed. We've seen it over and over. Obama lives rent-free in his head.
Just listen to President Trump randomly smearing the former president when Philip Rucker, the White House bureau chief at the Washington Post, asks him about his tweet over the weekend, falsely and outrageously claiming that Obama committed a political crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Obamagate. It's been going on for a long time. It's been going on from before I even got elected and it's a disgrace that it happened, and if you look at what's gone on and if you look at now, all of this information that's being released, and from what I understand, that's only the beginning.
Some terrible things happened and it should never be allowed to happen in our country again. And you'll be seeing what's going on over the next -- over the coming weeks, and I wish you'd write honestly about it, but, unfortunately, you choose not to do so. Yes, John, please.
PHILIP RUCKER, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, THE WASHINGTON POST: What is the crime exactly you're accusing him of?
TRUMP: You know the crime. The crime is very obvious to everybody. All you have to do is read the newspapers, except yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A political crime. Called, like, the political police. Like who would that be? Who would be the political police? I don't know.
[22:15:05]
You know what the crime is. He couldn't come up with a better one that than. It's like I, I know you are but what am I. You know what it is. I don't have to tell you. President Trump wants to be a tough guy slinging mud at Obama, but when pressed he can't even say what crime it is that the former president is supposed to have committed. It's just innuendo. It sounds threatening. It sounds bad. It's a disgrace.
Some terrible things that he's saying. Throw in some blaming the media there as well. There is no there there. And it's so apparent. It's -- he's desperate. Simply obsessed. Desperation.
And then asked why he seems to see testing as a global competition while Americans are dying every day, the president lashing out at CBS White House correspondent Weijia Jiang saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Maybe that's a question you should ask China. Don't ask me, ask China that question, OK? When you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. Yes, behind you, please.
WEIJIA JIANG, CORRESPONDENT, CBS NEWS: Sir, why are you saying that to me specifically?
TRUMP: I'm telling you.
JIANG: That I should ask China.
TRUMP: I'm not saying it specifically to anybody. I'm saying it to anybody that would ask a nasty question like that.
JIANG: That's not a nasty question.
TRUMP: Please, go ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Boy, boy, boy, boy. This is where we are right now. This is where we are right now. She's right. It's not a nasty question. That is her job. Her job is to ask questions. And he is obviously saying it to her specifically. OK? Please listen to this exchange. It's from back in April.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIANG: Many Americans are saying the exact same thing about you, that you should have warned them the virus was spreading like wildfire through the month of February instead of holding rallies with thousands of people. Why did you wait so long?
TRUMP: Who are you with?
JIANG: To warn them.
TRUMP: Who are you with?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do you mean who are you with or do you mean where are you from? Maybe you can give him the benefit of the doubt back then, but after the president got that dig about China, got in that dig about China today, I don't know.
And it's not the first time that Weijia Jiang has heard something ugly like this. She tweeted back on March 17th that a White House official had referred to the coronavirus as, quote, "kung flu" right to her face.
Nobody should be subjected to that kind of thing. Certainly not a White House correspondent doing her job. Really nobody. No one. Nobody.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins tried to let her colleague ask a follow-up question. It wasn't even like Kaitlan -- like she was making some grand statement by -- they were having a conversation. Kaitlan almost jumped in, asked her question. The reporter did a follow. Kaitlan stepped back because they were just -- look at the video.
Then, you know, the briefing there was supposed to be, you know, this briefing was supposed to be giving Americans vital information about this deadly virus. It turned into a temper tantrum when the president refused to answer a question from Kaitlan. And then just abruptly like a kid with his marbles and toys just went home, abruptly stormed off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I have two questions.
TRUMP: No, it's OK. We'll go over here.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: But you pointed to me. I have two questions, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Next, next, please.
COLLINS: But you called on me.
TRUMP: I did and you didn't respond. And now I'm calling on --
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Sorry. I just want to --
TRUMP: -- the young lady in the back. Please.
COLLINS: I just wanted to let my colleague finish.
TRUMP: OK.
COLLINS: Can I ask you a question?
TRUMP: OK. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
COLLINS: But you called us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, there you go. That is the President of the United States storming off, taking his bat and his ball and he's going home, refusing to answer questions that he doesn't like. More and more Americans are dying. Yet he is refusing to answer questions and storming off.
Next, Kaitlan Collins is here. I'm going to ask her about the president lashing out at his briefing today.
[22:19:59]
Dr. Jonathan Reiner is here with the facts about testing and whether the president himself should be wearing a mask.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump claiming again today that anybody who wants a coronavirus test can get one, but medical experts, including our very own Dr. Sanjay Gupta, says that is not true, and more and more tests need to be made available.
Our White House Correspondent is Kaitlan Collins. She's here. And Dr. Jonathan Reiner, the director of the Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington Hospital -- University Hospital joins us as well. Good evening to both of you.
Kaitlan, so the president is claiming that the country has, his words, prevailed on testing. How did he address the fact that his staff can get regular testing but ordinary Americans can't?
COLLINS: Well, Don, multiple times he was asked that question, and he seemed to try to turn it around on reporters, saying that that they'd be criticized if he wasn't testing his staff, but that really wasn't the point of the question.
No one is saying that White House staffers, cabinet members, the president and the vice president shouldn't be tested. The point that was being made was that look at what is happening on such a small scale here, where two people tested positive for coronavirus.
Everyone else is fretting about the possible exposure that could be happening in the West Wing, and these people have rapid testing where they can come into work and get tested within 15 minutes.
[22:25:06]
Of course, the rest of the country does not have that. We're seeing it play out with several companies that want to open meat packing processing plants, schools, churches, things like that. They don't have that kind of testing.
So, the question was, how can people feel comfortable going back to work if you're seeing what's playing out right here at the White House where a top economic adviser says it's scary to come to work because of the idea that you can potentially get coronavirus. And the president just was not answering that question in the format that it was asked to him multiple times today.
LEMON: Yes, it wasn't a direct answer to the question and it wasn't even an answer, you're right, to the question at all.
Kaitlan, please talk to me about that exchange that abruptly ended the briefing between the president, your colleague Weijia Jiang and you. What happened and what were you planning to ask?
COLLINS: Well, she was asking a question. She and the president were in an exchange back and forth where she was trying to follow up. You actually couldn't hear part of that follow-up because the mic in front of her had shut off.
And so, I could hear it because I was seated right behind her and the president had called on me so I stood up. But I wanted to let my colleague finish her question. That is really standard operating procedure for what we do in the briefing room or what we should be doing in the briefing room because then it allows reporters to follow up with the president and he can't just not answer questions that he doesn't like or that he doesn't want to answer.
And so, he had called on me. I was waiting on her to finish. They finished. And then when I stepped up to the microphone, he seemed perturbed that I had let Weijia finish asking her question of the president and then he turned and did not take any more questions from any of the reporters in the Rose Garden.
And we should note he had not called on us at that point. We had questions about testing, about this new mask policy that they've implemented here at the White House, and he did not take any of those questions after that.
LEMON: Interesting. So, doctor, I want you to listen to how -- this is how the president is talking about testing versus how his director of U.S. coronavirus testing is talking about testing. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As far as Americans getting a test, they should all be able to get a test right now. They should be able to get a test. If somebody wants to be tested right now, they'll be able to be tested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, everybody who needs a test can get a test. We have plenty of tests for that --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This is a big difference. The country isn't in a place where everyone who wants a test can get a test.
JONATHAN REINER, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Right. And it's not really even a question of people who want to get a test. It's really who we should be testing as a country.
You know, right now we've really limited testing, mostly to symptomatic people, to try and understand whether they have the virus, but we know that the virus may live in about 40 percent of the people who are positive with the virus may be asymptomatic.
And that's really the huge untapped market, so to speak, for testing is the asymptomatic people, people who appear to be well but are still shedding the virus.
The White House is -- is utilizing testing exactly the way many public health experts feel it should be used, which is to widely test and to test asymptomatic people.
So, the White House is using that, you know, to protect the president, and I certainly don't fault them for that. I think that's the right thing to do. But that's also the way to protect, you know, our parents and grandparents in nursing homes and that's the way to protect our healthcare workers, by widely testing. And that's a way for get consumer confidence up. Wouldn't you like to
know the people in the restaurant that you want to dine in tonight have all been tested today? That's the secret to opening up our society. To use that kind of wide-based testing that some people think might be, you know, as many as three million people a day. That's what we need to do.
LEMON: So, doctor, the president says that he is now requiring staffers to wear masks.
REINER: Yes.
LEMON: Should the president also be wearing a mask?
REINER: Sure, he should be wearing a mask because the president is our leader. We don't wear masks to protect ourselves. We wear masks to protect the people around us. Right? We are part of a community.
You know, in -- in Iowa last week when the vice president visited Iowa, they -- the vice president's people suggested that the panelists can take off their masks. They were wearing the masks to protect the vice president. Right? We wear masks to protect each other and that's the essential message.
LEMON: I see what you're saying. I get what you're saying. It's just stunning to me and there's always an excuse. There's always an excuse. Well, he's the president. Of course, he's going to take precautions that -- well, if the president gets it, that's one person and we don't -- we certainly don't want the president to come down with coronavirus.
[22:29:59]
But if the people around you get it, that means another person gets it and another person is exposed and another person may be exposed and so on and so forth. It may be more important for that other people don't get it instead of one person, you understand? Every life is valuable. Every life is equal, whether you're the president of the United States or not. It just seems to me that their logic is very flawed when it comes to this. Thank you, Doctor. Thank you, Kaitlan. I appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My pleasure.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump claiming the country has prevailed on testing as the U.S. hits another grim milestone. Coronavirus has now taken the lives of more than 80,000 Americans and health experts predict thousands more will die in the coming months. Joining me now is the Dr. Luciana Borio, she was in charge of the national Security Council pandemic response team, the one that was shut down under President Obama. I'm so glad you're here, doctor. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.
[22:35:08]
DR. LUCIANA BORIO, IN CHARGE, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL PANDEMIC RESPONSE TEAM: My pleasure.
LEMON: So, the president says that the country is prevailing on testing. How do you see it?
BORIO: So, the number of tests have increased and continue to increase over the last several weeks. Now, the important thing to remember, though, is that even if we deploy tests to everybody who needs it and everything goes well and we do contact tracing perfectly well, it still doesn't contain the pandemic. Because between 20 percent and 40 percent of people with the infection, Don, have no symptoms whatsoever, so the pandemic is not over and we need to maintain physical distancing for a long time, even after the country reopens.
LEMON: Doctor, you say that it's very predictable that the White House would have coronavirus cases. Why is it so predictable? Tell me.
BORIO: Well, the type of virus, the coronavirus, it's very easily transmissible. It transmits before people sometimes have symptoms. Asymptomatic individuals can transmit the virus. So it's very sneaky. We know from other respiratory viruses that it's very difficult to contain. And it's inevitable that it's going to basically creep into every region of the world. As we were seeing right now.
LEMON: We're learning tonight from CDC report that airport screening in California for travelers flying from China and Iran wasn't particularly effective at stopping coronavirus. Over 11,000 checks turned up that just three infections. What does this mean for traveling in the future?
BORIO: That's right. So we've known for a long time, CDC has done this modelling, has done work, we have experience from the pandemic influenza in 2009 that border measures are very inefficient in preventing transmission of respiratory diseases for a variety of reasons. So, we know we cannot really count on that to contain epidemics.
The initial restrictions of travel from China to the U.S. may have served to delay the large introduction of cases when it was imposed for, you know, for a couple of weeks, maybe three weeks at most to give us some time to deploy diagnostic tests, for example, and to focus inward how we're going to contain the epidemic domestically. But the measures are very inefficient and certainly will have no impact at this moment.
LEMON: I wanted to ask you a thought and I started reading the other question, but if you look at -- from having done this and what you said about the coronavirus. You said it's very sneaky, right?
BORIO: Very.
LEMON: If you look at what's happening in the White House and see that two people are in a relationship, they're married, and you that 11 secret service agents, there were others that had it and now, you know, they've gotten through it. Do you think that we're going to see more cases in the White House, considering the way that you said how easily transmissible it is?
BORIO: That's right. So while everybody that came in contact with somebody who was infected may now develop the infection which is why they -- a lot of those individuals that already announced that they are in self-imposed quarantine, that's the idea of testing and tracing and then isolating people that are infected and then quarantines your contacts.
It's possible that we're going to have more individuals who will show up with infection, rather they acquired it from the initial individuals or you know, elsewhere. And -- which is why it's so important to have them, you know, wear masks. The White House, you know, the offices are very small. The space is very small. Has a lot of people -- great density. Very difficult to maintain social distancing.
So, like I said, even with perfect testing and contact tracing, there will be a need to maintain some degree of physical distancing. (Inaudible).
(AUDIO DIFFICULTY)
LEMON: All right. Doctor, we're having trouble with your signal --
BORIO: Treatments and vaccine.
LEMON: Thank you, doctor. We are losing your signal right there at the end, but we appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much.
The vice president met with food executives and faith leaders in Iowa hours after his press secretary tested positive for the coronavirus. He didn't wear a mask and neither did most people at those meetings. Was there pressure not to? I'm going to ask someone who was there.
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[22:40:00]
LEMON: Iowa governor Kim Reynolds says she'll follow a modified quarantine out of concern that she may have been exposed to coronavirus during her trip to the White House last week. But Vice President Pence, whose own press secretary tested positive, won't do the same. In fact, the vice president travelled to Iowa after learning about his press secretary and didn't wear -- did not wear a mask when meeting with food executives and faith leaders.
Let's discuss. Rabbi David Kaufman who met with president -- with the vice president, I should say, during that trip to Iowa, joins me now. Rabbi, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us.
RABBI DAVID KAUFMAN, TEMPLE B'NAI JESHURUN: Happy to be here. LEMON: Absolutely. Great. Listen, I want to put up this video. This is
you meeting with the vice president the day that he knew his press secretary tested positive for coronavirus. You're wearing a mask. But he is not. So, can you just talk to me about what happened that day?
KAUFMAN: Well, I was going to the faith leaders program and I wear a mask when I go out of my house pretty much anywhere where I'm going to be around other people that I'm not normally around, and that's partly to protect me and it's partly to protect others in case I have something. And, you know, my feeling is if I'm going to meet with national leaders or state leaders, I want to protect them all as well.
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So, I was really surprised that other people who were there weren't wearing masks like I was, but also having had a quadruple bypass in August, I want to make sure that I'm taking care of myself so I for sure was going to wear a mask.
LEMON: I don't -- I don't blame you. You know, I want to put up some more video, because it looks like a lot of people, as you mentioned, there were people there who weren't wearing masks, but there were a lot of people who -- who didn't wear masks.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
LEMON: And you say a bishop had a mask on but then took it off.
KAUFMAN: So, some of the people, I think, had masks with them. The bishop, I think, wore one when he -- when he came in. He had an Iowa state mask. And at some point took it off. And I think part of the issue is that peer pressure is such that for a lot of people, if everybody else isn't doing it, they then don't feel like they should be doing it or else, you know, the idea that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
And people decide, hey, I don't want to look like I'm afraid and then they take their mask off. And one of the things, you know, I think is a concern is that people who really should be wearing their masks are going to feel like in order to fit in they need to take it off.
And there was actually someone there who had a mask on, an older woman who had a mask on because she was going to be around other people and saw that other people weren't wearing it and then decided to take it off because everybody else had theirs off. So, it's -- I think it's important to be concerned about the peer pressure of fitting in.
LEMON: Yes.
KAUFMAN: Without having a mask on.
LEMON: Well, I've got to ask you -- listen, I have to run here and I do appreciate you joining us, but what was the average age of the person -- people who were there?
KAUFMAN: Well, I mean, it tends to be. It was mostly an older crowd. I would say, you know, in 50s and 60s for most of the people.
LEMON: Yes. Peer pressure, huh? It doesn't leave you when you're a teenager. Goodness. Peer pressure. Thank you, Rabbi. I appreciate it.
KAUFMAN: You're welcome.
LEMON: Thank you. Peer pressure.
The Justice Department is considering federal hate crime charges in the Ahmaud Arbery case and the state's taking new action, too. We've got that news. I'm going to speak to anti-gun advocate and mother of Jordan Davis, Congresswoman Lucy McBath. There she is. She's next.
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LEMON: The United States Justice Department is now looking into the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery. A DOJ spokeswoman says that they are assessing all the evidence and determining whether to file federal hate crime charges. The DOJ also considering a request from the Georgia State Attorney General to look into initial handling of the investigation by local authorities.
I want to bring in now Congresswoman Lucy McBath of Georgia. She lost her son Jordan Davis to gun violence in 2012. Congresswoman, thank you. How are you doing?
REP. LUCY MCBATH (D-GA): It's been a rough week. Pretty tough.
LEMON: Yes. I can only imagine. I should say I can't even imagine. I'm sorry. That was the wrong thing to say. But listen, the Arbery case is now being handled by a fourth prosecutor. Can you belief that, a fourth prosecutor? The Georgia A.G. announcing today that District Attorney Joyette Holmes will run this investigation. Do you think Arbery's family will get justice for his killing, Congresswoman?
MCBATH: Well, you know, this is just the first step. And they still have a long way to go to get justice for Ahmaud. This is a long process. It took us actually two and a half years to get convictions for Jordan and his friends. So this is just the beginning. This is just the first step.
LEMON: So, this situation that led to this death, led to your son's killing in 2012 was a bit different than this one. But you can certain know the pain that his family is feeling right now. And what's why I said to you, I can't even imagine what you're dealing with.
I want to play for you -- because this case is receiving national attention. What happened to your son received national attention. And there was a lot of you know, speculation and the media so on and so forth. You know, the powers that be were commenting. I want to play what this president said about Arbery's killing earlier today and I'll get your response. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's horrible
and it's certainly being looked at by many people. I'm speaking to many people about it. He looked I saw the picture of him in his tuxedo. It was so beautiful. I mean, he looks like a wonderful young guy. It would have been a wonderful -- I mean, just a wonderful guy.
I saw the tape. And when they moved left, I don't believe when they move left outside of the tape, nobody saw what was going on. Nobody saw -- it's an empty spot on the tape, I guess. Now do they have additional tape? I hope. But I will say that it's something that based on what I saw, it doesn't look good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, he's saying, listen. What he basically what saw doesn't look good. But nobody saw what was going on when he moved left? I mean, what do you -- I don't know. Is he implying something there? I don't --
MCBATH: You know, Don, I can't really say. But what I can say is that, you know, the minute that I saw that video -- it was very heart wrenching and just -- I cannot describe for you how painful it was for me to watch that video. Because we know that Ahmaud at this murder was racially motivated. And he was hunted and he was gunned down in cold blood.
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And it just brought back all the memories that I had about how devastated I was when I found out what happened to my son Jordan. And the terrible thing about it is that, you know, there are millions of families black and brown families, all over this country that continue to just live in fear each and every day.
About the fact that they believe that, you know, their children may not come home from school. Or you know, they can't jog in neighborhoods that they live in. Or they can't buy skittles and soda pop at the grocery store. Or they can't even play loud music.
And so, it's just -- it's a pervasive, dangerous, gun culture that we're living in. And it just really has to be addressed. And I think that, you know, we got to be able to -- be able to address this culture. Change policy that enables people to be in power to use their guns the way that they want. And also find leadership that is willing to make sure that they sand up against the NRA and the gun lobby to protect our families.
LEMON: Listen. You have done a lot to change that gun culture. And I want to thank you for doing that. And I also want to thank you for joining us. If anyone has the where with all and the experience to know what to do. How to feel -- how people feel in these particular situations, it is you. And I just -- I really appreciate you joining us. Thank you congresswoman.
MCBATH: Thank you so much.
LEMON: Thank you.
The coronavirus death toll in the U.S. surpassing 80,000 today as 48 states are proceeding on reopening. Stay with us for the latest.
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