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Don Lemon Tonight

Death Toll Expected To Climb As People Go Out; Key Coronavirus Model Now Projects 147,000 U.S. Deaths By August, 10,000 More Than Previous Estimate; Dr. Anthony Fauci Warns States May See A Rise In Coronavirus Cases If They Reopen Too Quickly; Mitch McConnell Falsely Claims Obama Didn't Leave Trump A Pandemic Game Plan, Obama Left A 69- Page Playbook; Los Angeles County Could Be Under Stay-At-Home Order Until August. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 12, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Remember what your mother told you about people who have nothing good to say. They should say nothing at all.

But more importantly, remember what our moms taught us in their own glorious example of love and action through giving, even when it's hard, even when it hurts, because that's what family is all about.

Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: How are you, sir?

CUOMO: Better than I deserve.

LEMON: I always -- it's interesting to me when I see the people yelling in the supermarket or wherever saying, you can't tell me to wear a mask. And I always say, can't they tell you to wear pants? What's the difference? You can't go in the store naked. No shirt and no shoes, no service. What's the difference, Chris?

CUOMO: Well, I think that the difference would be, to argue their cause, one is about human decency and social morass.

LEMON: OK.

CUOMO: And the mask they would say it doesn't meet that level. That it's not necessary.

LEMON: So, I could go into the supermarket tomorrow if I want to without my pants on and say --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I would not advice that.

LEMON: -- this is my right. You can't -- I want to liberate. This is my constitutional right as an American to be who I am and I can walk around this way.

CUOMO: As your counselor, I say no. But as someone who would love to see what happens, I say go for it.

LEMON: But you understand what I'm saying. There are certain times where you have to, and certain instances, and this is certainly one of them, where you want to follow the rules. How long does it take you to be inside of a supermarket? All of a few minutes. Wear the mask. Do it -- do your patriotic duty as an American to help keep -- if you don't want to keep yourself safe, help keep your fellow Americans safe. Is it that hard?

CUOMO: I think that is the key, is that we are forgetting our role of the me in the we. And that's what Rand Paul today was about for me. He's right about Kentucky. I mean, they're not, you know, free of the virus there.

LEMON: No.

CUOMO: But it's certainly not like it is in New York, but that doesn't mean that you ignore what needs to be done. That testing is not important. That tracing is not important.

I'm telling you. I will keep saying this for a long time to come. The president is going to be hoisted on his own petard on this because the idea of wanting to reopen and hiding the truth by not testing --

LEMON: Yes

CUOMO: -- he is hurting himself. The reverse will get him what he wants. The more testing, the more American people will know and assess risk, the more bold they will become. This is a brave people.

LEMON: Yes. People, by the way, people always wonder what I'm doing. You know what I'm doing. I'm getting all my papers together and my notes and my scripts while you're talking, why you and I are talking, I'm basically getting it together.

Because I'm sitting here, I'm actually fascinated by some of your segments as I'm getting ready and I don't prepare because I'm listening to you. As you were talking about, by the way, you know, the whole going with no pants. But that's a joke. Sort of. I'm being facetious, let's put it that way, or sarcastic, as the president would say.

But, you know, think about it. You can't go into the convenience store if you don't have shoes on, right? If you don't --if you're not wearing a shirt. You can't do it. You got to follow the rules.

But listen, I'm listening to your segment. You're talking about Ahmaud Arbery. And I'm glad that you're breaking it down as a -- as an attorney because we need to know all those nuggets, all that information because we don't know when you think about the number of people who have had to beg off of this case and the small amount of information that we're getting when it comes to this case.

CUOMO: I'm not getting the information I want. None of us is. Even though we're asking every day. I tell you what I don't like. There are a couple of things that really bother me about this case. One is, why would a guy who step away from the case, recusing -- which is not unusual, right?

McMichael did have a history in law enforcement. But why would in their recusal statement would they miscast fact in context to frame the victim? That is very -- I've never seen that before. Where this man went out of his way to say, by the way, the deceased was fleeing from the scene of a burglary.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: There was no burglary.

LEMON: There was no burglary.

CUOMO: He didn't take anything from that house, as far as anybody knows. And, you know, he had a past. He had a juvenile, an adult felony record --

LEMON: My gosh.

CUOMO: -- just so you know, but I'm recusing myself. Very unusual.

LEMON: Yes, sometimes those things can come into play. In this particular case, it had nothing to do with what he was doing on that day. There are times when people's behavior can come into effect. And you know that as an attorney.

This time, this is not one of them. Because as we have said all along, if the guy was running down the street with a television, or, you know, or a CD player, whatever it is. Then nobody uses a CD. You know what I'm saying.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: In his hand, it still does not -- he still should not be gunned down in the middle of the street.

CUOMO: No.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: The misanalysis --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I got to tell you though --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: -- that's going on for too many is that people -

LEMON: -- I'm going do the --

CUOMO: -- are treating these guys like they were cops.

LEMON: -- there may be a reason that we will find out tonight if you stay tuned to this program as to why Ahmaud Arbery was in that home. I'm going to speak to his best friend. No one knows you better than your best friend, right?

CUOMO: That is a great interview.

[22:04:55]

LEMON: And I'm going to talk to his attorneys because there are, you know, things happening every moment here. One of his attorneys has worked with this new prosecutor from Atlanta and knows her very well, so we're going to speak to the attorneys on that and we're going to speak to his best friend. So, we're going to continue talking about this one.

CUOMO: Key.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: It is a must-watch. D. Lemon.

LEMON: I will see you tomorrow, sir.

CUOMO: Love you, brother.

LEMON: Good evening. You as well.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I am Don Lemon.

This is our breaking news. A prediction that the death toll from the coronavirus could go much higher this summer and a stark warning from Dr. Anthony Fauci.

The death toll tonight is more than 82,000. That as the model, often cited by the White House, is predicting that toll could soar to 147,000 deaths by August 4th. That number doubling in just two weeks. Researchers are blaming relaxed social distancing on that.

And Dr. Anthony Fauci in testimony to socially distancing and working from home. But senators today warned all of us about the consequences of ignoring the guidelines for reopening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There is a real risk that you will trigger an outbreak that you may not be able to control. Which in fact have paradoxically will set you back. Not only leading to some suffering and death that could be avoided, but could even set you back on the road to try to get economic recovery. Because it would almost turn the clock back rather than going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, here's the fact. The fact is that Dr. Anthony Fauci has -- he is right to be concerned. Forty-eight states in the process of reopening this week. Relaxing the stay-at-home orders and social distancing that our best weapons, our best weapons right now that we have against this virus. And as Dr. Fauci says, the result could be more suffering and even

death. Turning the clock back instead of going forward. After weeks of sacrifice by millions of Americans, by all of us, staying at home at great cost to ourselves, to our families and to this economy, we have all seen it, we all feel it.

Millions of people have lost their jobs. Millions of kids are out of school. Parents are going nuts trying to be schoolteachers at home. Home schooling. It's tough, right, parents?

Millions of businesses are closed and some, quite honestly, may never reopen. Millions of us are isolated from our loved ones, from our friends, from our neighbors. I was speaking to a friend today who wants to get to Louisiana to see his mom. She's 86 years old. Doesn't know when he's going to get to see her and he wants to see his mom and I don't blame him.

Will all of those sacrifices be in vain if we don't reopen too soon? Not according to Senator Rand Paul, who is a doctor, by the way. You'd think he'd put Americans' health and safety first instead of taking shots at our top infectious disease expert in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Really, the history of this when we look back will be of wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction, starting with Ferguson in England.

So, I think we ought to have a little bit of humility in our belief that we know what's best for the economy. And as much as I respect you, Dr. Fauci, I don't think you're the end-all. I don't think you're the one person that gets to make a decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Against our economy. I've never really heard Dr. Fauci talk about make any numbers, talk about the economy. He talks about health and science. Listen to him. Insulting Dr. Fauci. The man -- this is what our new poll shows about Dr. Fauci. Americans trust him a lot more than they trust Donald Trump.

And speaking of Donald Trump, the President, we just heard Senator Rand Paul say that the history of this coronavirus crisis will be wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction. But you know who has been making wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have it under control. It's going to be just fine.

We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment, five, and those people are all recuperating successfully. By April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it

miraculously goes away.

The coronavirus, which is, you know, very well under control in our country.

We're going down, not up. We're going very substantially down, not up. When you have 15 people and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: It is being contained. And do you not think it's being contained in this country?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not a doctor. I'm a lawyer.

CONWAY: Well, but you said, you said it's not being contained, so are you a doctor or a lawyer when you said it's not being contained. You just said something that's not true.

LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: So far it looks relatively contained and we don't think most people -- I mean, the vast majority of Americans are not at risk for this virus.

TRUMP: We're doing a great job with it, and it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.

Some of the doctors say it will wash through, it will flow through. Very accurate. I think you're going to find in a number of weeks.

[22:09:59]

The FDA also gave emergency authorization for hydroxychloroquine.

And I say it, what do you have to lose? I'll say it again. What do you have to lose? Take it. It will be wonderful. It will be so beautiful. It will be a gift from heaven if it works.

I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll get to the right folks who could.

TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or -- or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets on the lungs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Still as shocking as the first time you heard it. Wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction, Rand Paul. Well, you know who's been doing that? The president and his administration have been making wrong predictions from day one. Downplaying the danger of the virus. He said it will miraculously go away with warm weather. He has pushed

a dubious drug that not only showed no benefit, it could cause heart problems.

And let's not forget his mind-blowing suggestion that maybe ingesting disinfectant could be a cure. Wrong since day one.

And today's hearing exposed just how wrong the president has been. All of the empty promises of his insistence on reopening no matter the cost. Anybody who wants a test gets a test. That is not true. You know what that means. Not true means what?

Senator Mitt Romney, the president's nemesis, calling out the administration's claim just yesterday that we have prevailed. The president's word, by the way, that we've prevailed on testing. Listen to this emperor has no clothes moment from the truth-telling senator to Admiral Brett Giroir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I understand that politicians are going to frame data in a way that is most positive politically because they don't expect that from admirals. But yesterday you celebrated that we had done more tests and more tests per capita even than South Korea.

But you ignored the fact that they accomplished theirs at the beginning of the outbreak while we treaded water during February and March. And as a result, by March 6th the U.S. had completed just 2,000 tests, whereas, South Korea had conducted more than 140,000 tests.

So partially as a result of that, they have 256 deaths and we have almost 80,000 deaths. I find our testing record nothing to celebrate whatsoever. The fact is their test numbers are going down, down, down, down now because they don't have the kind of outbreak we have. Our numbers are going up, up, up, as they have to. I think that's an important lesson for us as we think about the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Facts, stubborn things. The senator is right. There's nothing to celebrate. No matter what the president or his administration may claim. We are not where we need to be on testing. And that's putting millions of Americans at risk.

Not everyone is willing to shill for this president, though, and perpetuate lies and attacks. Senator Romney, Dr. Fauci at least are not. Listen to this exchange. It's about President Trump's blame Obama strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: My impression is that with regards to vaccines, that where I'm critical of what we've done on testing, on vaccines we've done a pretty darn good job of moving ahead pretty aggressively, and yet the president said the other day that President Obama is responsible for our lack of a vaccine. Dr. Fauci, is President Obama or by extension President Trump, did

they do something that made the likelihood of creating a vaccine less likely? Are either President Trump or President Obama responsible for the fact that we don't have a vaccine now or in delaying it in some -- in some way?

FAUCI: No. No, Senator, not at all. Certainly, President Obama nor President Trump are responsible for our not having a vaccine. We moved, as you said -- of course I described it in my opening statement. Rather rapidly. No one has ever gone from knowing what the virus was to a phase one trial as fast as we've done.

So, I don't think that's something that one should say anybody's responsible for doing anything wrong on that. I think that's right. That's the correct way to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The president has invested a lot of time, a whole lot of time blaming his predecessor. But it does nothing to diminish the trouble that the president clearly knows he is in.

[22:14:58]

Buried in his latest Twitter tirade today, the president, who hasn't stopped cheering on states that are reopening despite not having met his own guidelines, saying governors have him to thank for their popularity and poll numbers.

Defensive much? The governors who have taken this seriously, are popular in their states, the ones who have followed the president's path are not. They've really stepped into the void. So have a lot of mayors.

I want you to take a look at this new Washington Post/IPSOS poll, OK? Governors DeWine, a Republican, Cuomo and Newsom, both Democrats with approval ratings like this president has never seen. A Republican and two Democrats.

So, this isn't about politics. It's about doing the right thing for your state. Imagine that. Doing the right thing for your state. At the bottom, Governors DeSantis, Abbott and Kemp, and all but Kemp still performed better than the president.

Like I said, not about politics. It's about doing what is best for your state. It could be about doing what's best for the country. How about that? Yes. Constantly.

We've got the latest tonight on a story that we first brought you more than a week ago, the case of Ahmaud Arbery, who was chased down and shot to death while jogging in a Georgia neighborhood.

It was just over a week ago, the first time that I spoke with Ahmaud's mother, she was pleading for justice for her son and since then this has just exploded into a national and international story. After weeks of no attention to the killing, multiple prosecutors, no charges filed.

A couple of days later, a video of the shooting became public. Then two men, a former police officer and his son, were arrested. And the more -- and more than that has happened, the more questions that we have, they are about exactly what happened today. We have a lot of questions about that. And tonight, I'm going to talk to Ahmaud Arbery's best friend and the family's attorneys about where this case stands. So, stay tuned.

We've also got some breaking news for you. The key coronavirus model now projecting 147,000 deaths in this country by August. I'm going to ask the man who oversees that model why it's doubled in less than two weeks.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A key model often cited by the White House, again, upping its projection of coronavirus deaths in the U.S., now estimating 147,000 deaths by August. That is an increase of about 10,000 from just two days ago, and more than double what it was two weeks ago.

Let's discuss now with the director of the institute behind that model, Dr. Chris Murray of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. Dr. Murray, good to see you again. Thank you so much for coming on.

Two weeks ago, we started to see this move towards reopening, and that's really changed your modelling. Is this happening because of reopening and relaxing social distancing?

CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION: Absolutely. The reason we're increasing our forecasts is exactly that, states -- we originally had thought that people would go the distance, keep social distancing in place right through to the end of May, bring the number of active infectious cases down to a very low level, and then we could have transitioned into managing that number of cases through testing, contact tracing, isolation.

But what's happened is that states have relaxed early, people have heard the message, they've gotten out, they've become more mobile, they're having more contact, and we're seeing the effects already of that transition and then that's playing out in the projections. Unfortunately.

LEMON: Yes, I judge how many people are out by the amount of traffic that I have to go through every day, and every day it seems to increase more and more, even before they started to open things back up. Doctor, it seems like every time you and I talk your death toll projection goes up. Could this go even higher still?

MURRAY: It certainly can. Because we're -- even in the new numbers, we're holding constant whatever is still there in terms of the social distancing mandates. So as states peel off more of those mandates, and if we see confirmatory evidence in cell phone data about mobility then the numbers will go up. They could go down if the temperature effect is larger than it currently seems to be. It's getting more small the temperature effect.

LEMON: What do you --

MURRAY: That's always a wild card.

LEMON: You mean that being warmer is supposed to make it less transmissible, is that right?

MURRAY: Yes. That's the idea. You know, if it was like the flu, you know, transmission by this week in May would be down to almost zero. So clearly that's not the case. But there's still this question mark will there be some effective temperature?

In the statistical analysis we see about a one-degree increase in temperature is going to give you, like, less than a 1 percent reduction in transmission, but by midsummer, that could make a small effect, you know, 10 percent, 20 percent change. But we'll have to wait and see.

We'll have to see if that effect holds state holds steady or if it gets stronger. You know, that's the thing about a new pandemic, we just don't know everything.

LEMON: OK.

MURRAY: So far -- yes.

LEMON: So, let's talk about then how does that compare -- I don't know if there's a -- if it helps to balance it out. I don't know what it is. I don't want to answer for you.

[22:25:02]

How does that compare state after state opening up even if they don't meet the guidelines, but just opening up early, in your estimation, I should say, in the experts' estimation. How does that compare as far as transmission, you know, what you were just saying with heat and states opening up?

MURRAY: Well, that's why our numbers are going up. Because in our assessment, the increased transmission that's going to come from people being out and about more, coming in contact with more people, getting together in larger groups, which I know is happening on the Mother's Day. You know, I could see it in my own neighborhoods.

LEMON: I saw it, too.

MURRAY: All those things are playing out and --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Even in my own family people were asking, tell my mom. Are you going to go see your grand babies? She's like, no, I'm staying right here. Which was right, but a lot of people were doing it. Even I saw it on social media.

And I'm thinking, what are you thinking? Like, see your grandbaby on facetime. I don't mean to be preachy, but you can't have certain rules for some people and then other rules for yourself. It just doesn't make any sense. But go on. Sorry.

MURRAY: Yes. No, exactly. I saw the same thing in my neighborhood. And, you know, we're seeing that play out in the data, in the models. So that's the big driver here. And, you know, we've got to hope that testing will keep growing. But we've already taken that into account.

We're assuming even in what we're forecasting now that states will continue improving testing and doing contact tracing and isolation on the trend that they're already on. So that's built into what we're doing in the predictions.

LEMON: Yes.

MURRAY: So, on balance, as states relax social distancing more or if they do, then, yes, we expect the numbers will probably go up more.

LEMON: How many deaths per day will we see with all of these re- openings?

MURRAY: You know, we're still seeing the number of deaths per day at the national level trending down. It's just going in the current version; it's just going to be really slow. It's going to be that very slow, steady decline because the, you know, scaled up mobility and interaction means that there's more and more transmission.

Not enough yet to tip people over into becoming like New York and having, you know, an explosive -- or Louisiana, an explosive epidemic. But that's really possible. Like, if it keeps going and it goes too fast, we may go from having this sort of long, slow, steady decline and lasting, you know, well through the summer.

We may see states tipping over into, you know, what we all want to avoid, which is, you know, exponential growth. Doubling, you know, every 10 days or so. And that's the real risk.

LEMON: Yes. Stay at home. You don't get a reprieve for holidays. The virus doesn't take a day off just because it's Mother's Day or a birthday or the Fourth of July or Memorial Day or an anniversary, any of that. Just stay at home.

MURRAY: Wear -- and if you have to go out for work or for shopping, for food and things like that, wear a mask. And, you know, try to do your best to avoid coming within six feet of people.

LEMON: Yes.

MURRAY: That can really help, and that's day factor -- if everybody was out wearing a mask, that could really help things along.

LEMON: Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it.

MURRAY: Sure. My pleasure.

LEMON: The country's top doctor is testifying before senators today, all remotely, because they're doing it remotely. See? Doesn't take a day off. Because three out of four of them are self-isolating or self- quarantining. What does that say about the country's ability to reopen? I'm going to ask the Obama White House Ebola czar. That's next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Dr. Anthony Fauci warning today the country may see a spike in coronavirus cases if states reopen too quickly. That as a key model is projecting 147,000 deaths from the virus in the U.S. by early August. An increase of 10,000 deaths from the previous forecast issued days ago.

Let's bring in Ron Klain who coordinated the battle against Ebola for President Obama. Ron, thank you so much. Good to see you.

RON KLAIN, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thanks for having me, Don.

LEMON: Absolutely. What do you think of today's hearings from the nation's top doctors? Dr. Fauci says that opening too soon could lead to avoidable suffering and death.

KLAIN: Yes, look, I think it was interesting to see Dr. Fauci be able to speak directly, answer questions from both Democrats and Republicans without President Trump standing over his shoulder in the White House briefing room. And we got a lot of candor. We heard that opening too soon could lead to needless deaths. That we're still well over a year away from having a vaccine.

And that, you know, there's a number of aspects of the response that still aren't where they need to be, particularly around testing. So, you know, Dr. Fauci's always very candid. I thought though he was able to give really direct answers today and hopefully it was a wake-up call for people all over the country.

LEMON: Let me -- this is some of Jim Acosta's -- my colleague Jim Acosta's reporting. He reported earlier today that we may see less of Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx moving forward. What is the impact of that going to be on the nation's health, do you think?

KLAIN: Well, look, I think the more we hear from Tony Fauci the safer we all are. And, Don, it's not just being safe, although that's the most important thing. I mean, if in the end if you really want to fix the economy, you have to fix the health care situation. You can say we're going to reopen every state, every business in the country.

But if people get sick working at them, people get sick patronizing them, if people are scared to go into them then reopening them isn't really going to restart the economy. So Dr. Fauci's giving the best health care advice. It's also the best economic advice in the long run, and I think the more we hear from him, the better off we all are.

[22:35:12]

LEMON: You know, the fact that all four witnesses were testifying remotely because three of them and the chairman, Senator Lamar Alexander, was self-isolating or self-quarantining. Plus, when meetings at the White House look like this, if you look at it, because the vice president, you know, Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx had potential exposure. I mean, that speaks volumes about where we are right now in fighting this pandemic.

KLAIN: Yes, I think it says two things as we think about going back to work. First, if you have workplaces that are not safe then you're going to have these kinds of things where people get exposed in the workplace and at the White House, as we know. People were not wearing gloves, they were not wearing masks, they weren't acting safe, and as a result a bunch of people were exposed and back home.

So, a model, what happens when you open too soon without protections people go to work and then they have to go back home right away. That's what we saw. The second lesson, Don is, what's going on at the White House right now? As a result they're doing testing every day of people at the White House.

And you know, I think that's a thing that every worker in America should have as a protection. President Trump ordered, used his power to order meatpackers to go back on the job. They're not getting tested. They're at risk of getting exposed. They're at risk of getting the disease. But people who work at the White House have the protection of testing. Why should that be different?

LEMON: That's a good question. Listen, the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is falsely -- and I really should say shamelessly claiming that President Obama didn't leave a pandemic game plan. I want you to listen to this. He appeared in a Trump campaign outline chat-- online chat, I should say with Lara Trump. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: We want to be early, ready for the next one. Because clearly the Obama administration did not leave to this administration any kind of game plan for something like this.

LARA TRUMP, SENIOR ADVISER FOR TRUMP 2020: That's exactly right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Facts, there was a 69-page plan left for the Trump administration. Right? There's a 69-page plan.

KLAIN: Yes.

LEMON: And --

KLAIN: And it says playbook on the front. LEMON: Playbook for early response to --

KLAIN: And so you're trying to hide this in any way, shape or form.

LEMON: There it is right here. It says --

KLAIN: Yes.

LEMON: Playbook for early response to high-consequence emerging infectious disease, threats and biological incidents. This is a small section because actually my printer ran out of paper trying to print it all here. But here it is. So -- is a brazen lie.

KLAIN: Yes. And, you know, what's particularly ironic about that is two things, Don. First of all, not only did we leave a playbook behind. Not only does it say playbook on the front, but page nine specifically says look out for respiratory ailments that are spread, that are flu-like. We talk about the rate of death of such illness and we mentioned the coronavirus specifically on page nine. So you didn't even really need to read all 69 pages to get the warning.

LEMON: Yes.

KLAIN: The second thing that's really ironic about this is, in fairness to Senator McConnell. When I was the Ebola response coordinator, he worked with us on a bipartisan basis to help us pass some of the funding that funded the programs that were in that playbook. So in trying to defend President Trump, he's actually erasing some of his own work from the historical record.

Because that playbook was the product of a bipartisan effort worked on in the Bush administration and the Obama administration, funded by Democrats and -- delivered cleanly, clearly, well-organized to President Trump -- took steps backward. They undid the work that had been a bipartisan project up to that point.

LEMON: You're right. It's right here. I see it. Page nine. And you can -- it's online, right, if you want to go see it?

KLAIN: Yes, it's online. People can google it. They can read it for themselves.

LEMON: Wow. Thank you, Ron. I appreciate that.

KLAIN: Thanks, Don. Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Absolutely.

Officials in L.A. are telling residents they are likely going to be under some form of stay-at-home orders until August. What this means for people there and in other heavily-populated areas of the country. That's next.

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[22:40:00] LEMON: Residents of Los Angeles County could be under stay-at-home

orders until August. That word from the county health director who also says, that restrictions on businesses and public spaces -- to be lifted. For example, beaches reopen tomorrow for runners, swimmers and surfers. No laying around, though, and you have to wear a mask unless you're going in the water. But no sitting on the beach allowed, right? No laying around. No sitting around.

Let's discuss now with Johnese Spisso the president of the UCLA health and CEO of the UCLA hospital system. Thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us. So let's talk about what the Mayor Eric Garcetti is saying. Because he was on CNN earlier tonight. Here's how he described what the next few months in Los Angeles could look like. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES, CA: We're still going to need to wear facial coverings. We're still going to need to physically distance. What we did do is we moved forward this weekend opening up our trails. We made sure that there is curb-side pickup at five different categories of retail stores.

Today the county announced we concur that that will expand to all retail. That beaches will open up this week for exercise and active recreational only. Every two or three weeks we can assess those steps. If the numbers stay stable as they are here in Los Angeles, great. We've earned that and can build on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The mayor is talking about a slow, phased reopening with some form of stay-at-home order for the next few months. Is this a good idea?

[22:45:08]

JOHNESE SPISSO, PRESIDENT/CEO UCLA HOSPITAL SYSTEM: Yes. Well, thank you. I think that's very good and sound advice. In Los Angeles County, we have 10 million people. And the great work that has been done in our county and in our state has really helped us manage this pandemic to date. We have in Los Angeles County had about 33,000 cases and about 1,613 deaths. The hospitalization rate has been about 17 percent, so it's been at a rate that has allowed us to not be overwhelmed.

That has been really essential in being able to care for the public. So this helpful and thoughtful guidance, the monitoring, they're looking at the rates, are really important. Now, some of the big news is we have seen the rates begin to flatten in Los Angeles. But within the last 24 hours alone, we still had 961 new cases and 45 deaths.

LEMON: So that means that it's still not -- yes, let me jump -- let me jump in here because I have a whole lot that I want to ask you.

SPISSO: OK. LEMON: You're right. It's not over yet. So, for people who have been

hearing that California is in pretty good shape? Why is this necessary in Los Angeles in particular? I know that you said it's not over, but everyone has been -- you know, we've been hearing Los Angeles is in pretty good shape, so why is this necessary?

SPISSO: You know, it's necessary because we know how this virus works and we know how fast the transmission of the virus occurs. And how quickly you can have surges. We've seen that in New York City, in Houston, in New Orleans. So, we want to continue to be able to manage through this pandemic. And the ability of us most recently to really expand testing has helped us be able to open some of the things that we're doing.

I think one of the great news is with the health care systems we are now able to bring back patients who have been waiting eight to nine weeks for their surgeries or procedures. We can do that because we can test everyone pre-surgery and pre-procedure, and we have the personal protective equipment to care for everyone safely.

LEMON: Yes. Well, we certainly wish you the best. We'll be watching and we hope to have you back to talk about this soon. Thank you, Johnese Spisso. I appreciate it.

SPISSO: Thank you.

LEMON: States, counties, cities all putting together social distancing orders, but how are the rules actually being enforced? I'm going to speak to someone in charge who says it's been heart-wrenching.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: Most of us had been under stay at home orders for about two months. It's hard. A lot of us are frustrated. The top health officials agree it is key to keeping the death toll down. That's why people like Jeff Rosen and Angela Alvarado are tasked with the tough job of enforcing public health orders. They are the district attorney and the Deputy district attorney of Santa Clara County, which has the highest number of coronavirus cases in California's bay area. And they both join me now.

We know that it's a very busy time for you. So, we -- are really appreciative that you're both here. Thank you so much. Angela, your job is enforce Santa Clara County strict lockdown order. That's got to be stressful. How do you determine what is a violation?

ANGELA ALVARADO, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SANTA CLARA COUNTY: Well, we have been working with a team of attorneys on both the district attorney office and our county council. And really what we have been following is the strict guidance of the Dr. Kodi's (ph) health order. We have been talking about this as a team as every single different issue comes up. Because so many things have come from this that we really were not expecting.

LEMON: Yes. How many violations are you receiving a day?

ALVARADO: We're still receiving about three or 400 a day. So, we had answered about -- almost 7,000 calls for a compliance checks.

LEMON: Why do you say that this process is heart wrenching?

ALVARADO: It's been very heart wrenching because my role as a community prosecutor is to work directly with our community stake holders. Our small businesses, our neighborhoods, our schools. And these are people in our community that are really trusted that when we tell them we have a health emergency, this compliance has to be shared by all of us. And this is really obviously directing a lot of very tough times for our small businesses. And all of us.

LEMON: Yes. Jeff, I want to bring you in. You have waited patiently, thank you so much. You know, you've been instructed your team to avoid issuing citations except in cases of intentional defiance. Are you seeing a lot of cases like that?

JEFF ROSEN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SANTA CLARA COUNTY: No. Very few. We're fortunate in our county to have overwhelmingly voluntary compliance. And I'm not surprised by that. You know, it's a county that has come together and people understand the importance of sheltering in place. And what I instructed our community prosecutors and law enforcement is to give a verbal warning.

Let's try to get voluntary compliance. Issuing a citation and prosecuting is really a last resort. And I'm really pleased to say that at this point we haven't had to file criminal charges yet. We have gotten overwhelming voluntary compliance from our business community.

LEMON: What should other people do? Because it real -- you know, it infuriates me when I see other people are not complying, when I see people not wearing masks and other things. And listen, I don't want to be the, you know, the tattle tale or the snitch. But what should other people do when they see these things?

[22:55:08]

ROSEN: Well, we respond to complaints that we receive from citizens. And as you just pointed out, one of the ways in which we get voluntary compliance is we say to businesses look, all the other businesses on the block, all the other cafes closed. Because they understand how important it is. You're the only that's one breaking rules. And that's one technique that we use that is very powerful in getting people voluntarily comply.

LEMON: What about just other people, though? What about other -- I mean, just other people. Walking down the street. The other day I saw like 20 people having a picnic in the park. And I just wanted to scream at them, like, what are you doing! Like, what should I do in that instance? Quickly, because I have to run.

ROSEN: Well, I think in that instance, you want to call our hot line or send us an e-mail and we'll try as best we can to try to, you know, make that go away. But really, public sentiment is very much on our side. And we try to get as many people as possible to follow the rules.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you.

ALVARADO: And Don, we get calls from all over the country. So --

LEMON: Do you?

ALVARADO: Yes. We do.

LEMON: I know, I feel terrible, like -- but, I mean, its life or death for a lot of folks. And there are a lot of people are putting their lives on the line to make sure that people stay alive, right? And working with the sick people. The least you can do is obey the rules. Right? Thank you both. I appreciate all your hard work. And thanks for joining us. We'll be right back.

ALVARADO: Thank you.

ROSEN: You're welcome.

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