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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump's Wearing of Mask is Off Limits to Media; Third Suspect Arrested in Ahmaud Arbery Killing; President Trump Eager to Have Crowded Rallies Amidst a Pandemic; President Trump Falsely Claims That Mail-In Voting Leads to Widespread Fraud; New Model Predicts Case Spikes in Some States That Reopened Early, Especially in the South; Man Who Recorded Fatal Shooting of Ahmaud Arbery is Third Suspect to be Arrested. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 21, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: She is part of our interconnectedness and our interdependence. No matter how bad things get. Remember, there is always hope.
Thank you for watching. CNN Tonight with the man known as D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Now that is an American.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
LEMON: What was I doing at 10 years old? I'm thinking about what I was doing. I certainly wasn't doing that. My goodness.
CUOMO: What am I doing now?
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: At 10.
LEMON: I was watching that story -- by the way, congratulations. Go Chelsea. That someone like her and all these Americans that you're putting on and every year when we do these heroes thing, I've never felt worse about myself because there's such great people. It makes me feel warm inside but then I leave the heroes thing and then I think about what am I doing for the world?
CUOMO: Well, you know what? It's a fair question, Don. It is in the easy to look at yourself in the mirror on a regular basis. let alone when you see that basically your life is empty.
LEMON: You're talking about you. You meaning, you're projecting.
CUOMO: You're a saint compared to me.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I don't even know how to get out of bed in the morning. Why do I wear black every day?
LEMON: Did someone sent -- someone sent me a message saying hey, can you loan your buddy Cuomo a suit and a tie or two. No, more than the tie. Can you loan him a suit, please?
CUOMO: I love that people still don't get that I wear the same thing every night.
LEMON: Well, they're not going to get it. I put this tie on and I'm just noticing it is enormous. Look how big this tie is.
CUOMO: Everything on you looks good.
LEMON: It's enormous.
CUOMO: The way you dress is not your problem.
LEMON: Yes. Great show tonight. Man, that case down in Georgia taking a twist and turns all over the place. And I don't think obviously what we know. It's not the end of it. I think there's going to be more people caught up in this. I don't know how it's going to end up, and there are level of involvement. Man, man.
CUOMO: It's going to be a story of people who thought they knew something about somebody --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- and they decided to act on it and they were wrong.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's what it's going to be.
LEMON: All right, my friend. Love you the most.
CUOMO: Love you, D. Lemon, my brother.
LEMON: I'll see you later. Have a great evening, sir.
CUOMO: You, too.
LEMON: This is CNN Tonight. I am Don Lemon.
And we have some breaking news tonight. It's about the coronavirus. It is -- we're going to talk about the death toll now. Because it's passing 94,000. All 50 states, all 50 states beginning to reopen.
And our CNN town hall tonight Dr. Anthony Fauci has advice about what is safe this Memorial Day weekend. So, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Go out, wear a mask. Stay six feet away from anyone. So, you have the physical distancing. And go out. Go for a run, go for a walk. Go fishing. As long as you're not in a crowd and you're not in a situation where you can physically transmit the virus.
And that's what the mask is for. And that's what the physical distance. I plan to go out for a nice walk and hikes over Memorial Day. And I'm going to do it with care with a mask on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So that clear advice from Dr. Fauci. Maintain physical distance. Wear a mask. Wear a mask. But the president still refusing to follow that advice.
Here's the President of the United States surrounded by others wearing masks standing in front of a display of plastic masks being made for frontline workers at a Ford plant in Michigan. Is he wearing a mask? Nope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you just take us through your thought process with why you decided not to wear a mask.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I did wear. I had one on before. I wore one in this back area. But I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. But, no, I had it in the back area. I did put a mask on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have the goggles on too as well, sir?
TRUMP: I did. I had goggles, the goggles and a mask.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you not wearing?
TRUMP: And here's another one. Here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why were you not wearing it --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Because in this area -- you take it. Not necessary here. Everybody has been tested and I have been tested. In fact, I was tested this morning. So it's not necessary.
(OFF-MIC)
TRUMP: Well, that's their choice. I was given -- I was given a choice. I had one on in an area where they preferred it. So, I put on and it was very nice. It looks very nice. But they said not necessary here.
Yes, please?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the example that it would set for other Americans --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, I think it sets an example. I think it sets an example both ways. As I say, I did have it on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It looked very nice. Did you hear that, though? He said it looked very nice. But not -- he said, it wasn't necessary. OK, nothing but excuses. It's not necessary to wear a mask. I had one on before. I just didn't want to give reporters the pleasure of seeing me. I had one on and it looked very nice. I was given a choice. He says it sets a bad example both ways.
It sure does. We had a doctor on the other night he said some in this administration have forgotten that they actually work for the American people. This president certainly has forgot that.
[23:05:01]
He's never thought that he works for the American people because the example that the president should be setting is for the people he works for and that's the American people. Who, at this point should be trying to protect themselves and their fellow American people. Their family, their loved ones, their neighbors, everyone.
He is the leader. He sets an example. He sets an example of a president who time after time has resorted to the old do as I say not as I do defense, who absolutely refuses to do what millions and millions of Americans have done, have been doing for weeks.
You made a lot of sacrifices over this long period of time. Right? The very least the president can do is wear a mask. Don't you think? To the president who stands there, right, a mask with the presidential seal literally in his hand. Still doesn't put the thing on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Here is my mask right here. I liked it very much. I actually, honestly, I think I look better in the mask. I really did. I look better in the mask.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen, Mr. President?
TRUMP: But I'm making a -- but I'm making a speech so I won't have it now. But I did have it on right here. And I think some of you might have gotten a shot. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ford, can you confirm that the president was told it's OK not so wear one in this area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's up to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, he's making a speech so he won't have one on. So, I'm talking right now. Can you hear me? I'm speaking. Can you understand what I'm saying? I'm wearing a mask.
Funny how that works. You know, cloth and a microphone and a voice and projection. It's not about like going after the president because he's not wearing a mask. It's not that.
It is again, the example that he is setting for the country. The double standard that it is. That he likes to call people out for what he thinks is a double standard. Of how he's treated so poorly and so badly the double standard.
But yet, when there is a double standard from him, on his end, it doesn't matter. Do you feel me? Do you see what I'm saying? That is called, say it together. Hypocrisy. It's up to him. You know what that means. He is not going to wear a mask in public.
Ford put out a statement saying that Bill Ford, the executive chairman of Ford, Ford Motor Company, encouraged the president to wear a mask when he arrived but he later removed it. Defying Michigan state law and the company's own rules. Michigan's attorney general blasting the president's defiance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA NESSEL, MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: The president is like a petulant child who refuses to follow the rules. And I would say, this is no joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Asked earlier today whether he would wear a mask the president said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't know. We're going to look at it. A lot of people have asked me that question. I want to get our country back to normal. I want it normalize. One of the things I want to do is get the churches open. The churches are not being treated with respect by a lot of the Democrat governors. I want to get our churches open. And we're going to take a very strong position on that very soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, quite a pivot there from a question about whether he himself will wear a mask in public to claiming that Democrats are not treating churches with respect.
All right, listen, we're going to talk about that. But I think what people are trying to do, quite honestly, is to keep people alive and safe. You know about super-spreaders, about things that happen when you get together in gatherings.
Remember, division is what this president believes sells and helps him among his constituency. So, if he can create a division a false division between Evangelical and church going people and Democrats, then he will do that. Whether people are just trying to keep folks alive and safe and from getting COVID-19 or not, he's going to -- well, it's the Democrats who are trying to keep you from practicing your religion because they don't like religion or God or the church or what have you. [23:09:58]
Instead of just saying the science indicates and dictate -- dictates that you don't gather in big groups. End of story because that's a fact. Create a wedge with false information because that's what he believes works for him. That's all that's happening here.
So, in that instance, when you don't want to answer the question, you change the subject. But let's not forget that, you know, he said this the very day that he announced the CDC guidance urging Americans to wear masks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Somehow sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful Resolute desk, the great Resolute desk. I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings and queens. I don't know. Somehow, I don't see it for myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, you know what this is about. He told you -- he told -- he told all of us on the first day. The president who made his name as a reality TV showman cares more than anything else about how he looks. He even said it in the previous sound bite that I played at the Ford tour. He said it looked great, right? Who would think that about a mask? Especially if you're the president and trying to lead people and guide them through a pandemic.
Do you really care how the thing looks or how it performs? He cares about looking strong, looking like a winner and wearing a mask is just not the part of the picture of himself that he broadcasts in his own head. He thinks it would make him look weak. So, he refuses to do it. Refuses to do the right thing.
You heard him justify not wearing a mask, saying that he was tested just this morning. And then are you ready for this? Listen to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I tested very positively in another sense. So, this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Negative?
TRUMP: Yes. I tested positively toward negative. Right? So, I tested perfectly this morning. Meaning, meaning, I tested negative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you taking the antibody test? Have you tested the antibody test yet?
TRUMP: But that's the way of saying it. Positively toward the negative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Is this a serious story. What? I'm not sure I understood. Can -- please play, can you plat that again for me, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I tested very positively in another sense. So, this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Negative?
TRUMP: Yes. I tested positively toward negative. Right? So, I tested perfectly this morning. Meaning, meaning, I tested negative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you taking the antibody test? Have you tested the antibody test yet?
TRUMP: But that's the way of saying it. Positively toward the negative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. I think that was a reporter who was trying to help him out. Positively toward the negative. OK, to listen to that you have to ask yourself if this is someone who has any business -- is this someone who has any business questioning Joe Biden's tendency to misspeak, is this someone who -- and we can play many, many, many of these. He says -- he always says many people say. We can play many of these.
But it is, come on. Is this someone who has any -- should he be questioning Joe Biden's misspeaks sometimes? This is just beyond hypocritical. If anything emerges from that garbled mess. It seems like the president's justification for not wearing a mask is that he has tested negative. OK?
Honestly, just wear a mask. Enough with the excuses. Just wear a mask. But I guess the president thinks that it would be a bad look less than six months before election day. And just like he has made it clear why he won't wear a mask, you don't have to listen too hard to get to what he is really looking forward to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think the demand now from what we see is greater than ever before. We're going to have to go to certain states where we're able to -- look, I don't want to have a stadium where you're supposed to have a person and then seven empty seats and then another person.
So, we might do some outdoor big ones and we may also just wait until the stadiums can open up. I think's going to be soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So -- and I have tried to be fair all the time. I'm just playing what he says honestly. That was incredibly irresponsible. Because what he is doing is encouraging crowded campaign rallies soon. Should anybody be doing that? But the president is just itching to get back out there. He said it again today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [23:15:00]
TRUMP: Hopefully in the not too distant future we'll have some massive rallies and people will be sitting next to each other. I can't imagine a rally where you have every fourth seat full. Every six seats are empty for every one that you have full. That wouldn't look too good.
Now I look -- I hope that we're going to be able to do some good old fashioned 25,000 person rallies where everyone is going wild because they love our country.
I mean, everybody wants the rallies. The rallies. We have never had an empty seat from the time I came down the escalator with a person that became our great first lady who people really love and they love her at those rallies too. And she's -- she loves the people of this country. We have to -- they are longing for the rallies. I get it all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mask or no mask?
TRUMP: But you can't have a rally, I don't think we can have a rally with an empty stadium with nobody in there. In other words, you know, you may be able to pull it off of baseball or football or boxing or basketball. You can't pull off a rally with a 100 -- it wouldn't work out too well.
So, hopefully we'll be able to do rallies in the last couple of months. I mean, I would hope that within maybe the last couple of months we'll be able to do rallies in various states.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes. I misspoke. He didn't say it today. I meant to say he said it again and again. You can do virtual rallies, by the way. That is possible. So, listen, that's just not, that's just not reality. Twenty-five thousand people crowded together for hours shouting and screaming. It's irresponsible to even be thinking about that any time soon. Honestly. Any time soon.
Listen, I've got to tell you to be quite honest with you, I've got a really nice note from a lady who asked me -- and I've gotten a couple like this before who asked me, the beginning of your show, why do you take so many pauses and you talk so slow.
Because, this is the God's honest truth. Because I'm not just reading things off a teleprompter. I'm thinking about what I'm saying here. And I want to make sure that what I'm saying is correct and factual. And there's nuance to it. So, I'm thinking about what I'm saying. I'm not just reading words.
So, when people have a conversation, I'm trying to have a conversation with you the viewer. So, when you have a conversation with people, you don't just keep talking and rattling. You think about what you say, you pause, it's just natural. I'm very comfortable sitting here. I feel like I'm sitting in my living room when I do this. This is what I do this two hours a night, five times a week and
sometimes more. So, as you are sitting on your couch there in your living room, I sit at this desk every night. I'm very comfortable. So, I pause sometimes and I think about what I do. Sometimes I say the right thing. Something I say the wrong thing. If I say something wrong, I apologize. Just as we do in every day conversation.
So that's what this is about. So, I'm thinking about what I am saying. OK? That's why I do that. It's not for effect. It's just me having a conversation with you. So, I hope you appreciate it. If you don't, I am sorry.
We've got a lot more to come tonight on the pandemic. That's me reading now. And the president's response. We've also got a major new development tonight in the case that we have been following for you for nearly three weeks. And that is the killing of Ahmaud Arbery who was chased down, shot and killed while jogging in a Georgia neighborhood.
A third suspect has been arrested and charged with felony murder in the case. I'm going to talk with the attorneys for the family. So, a lot more coming up.
So, with the president refusing to wear a mask in public will people follow his lead this Memorial weekend? That is a question for CNN's John Harwood and Dr. Jonathan Reiner who actually said to me the other night about something that I just mentioned in my open. We'll talk about all of that, next.
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the president could not be any clearer today. He says he won't wear a mask in front of cameras because he doesn't want to give reporters the pleasure of seeing it. Seriously? What message is he sending to Americans as the death toll passes 94,000?
I want to discuss now with CNN's White House correspondent is John Hardwood, and CNN medical analyst, Jonathan Reiner joins us as well. Thank you both. John, no mask for the president during the public tour. Is this a silly macho thing? Is this optics, an optics thing for the country reopening? Why can't he just show leadership here, that's really what this about.
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Don, I think it's three things and you eluded to some of them in your set up. First of all, the president's vein. He likes to look large and in charge. And he thinks if he wears a mask it makes him look less than that.
Secondly, wearing a mask conflicts with his message of everything is fine, let's go reopen the economy. He's trying to send a signal that people don't have to worry about the coronavirus and wearing a mask suggests that you do have to worry about it.
The third thing is the president especially under political stress and he's under a lot of political stress at the moment, likes to make culture war appeals to his base. And this gave today gave him a twofold opportunity to do that.
First of all, by not wearing the mask in front of reporters he identified with the sense of defiance among some segment of his base that thinks that it's just nerds and scared cats who wear masks and I'm not having my liberty infringed upon. And President Trump by not wearing one said I'm with you.
Second thing, he said it out loud about the press. He said I'm not going to knuckle under and give you the pleasure of seeing me in a mask. A lot of his base thinks that the press is fake news, they hear what he says, they reflect it back to him.
[23:25:00]
And so that was another way of establishing distance between himself and driving a wedge with the mainstream media. The problem for the president is that he's obviously on the short side of the public health part of this. And it's counterproductive even to his goal of opening the economy. Because wearing a mask is something that would make the country safer and make it a more sustainable recovery.
But politically, there was a poll yesterday that showed 70 percent of the American people embrace the idea of mask wearing. Saying, it shows respects to others and it helps protect people. That 30 percent that did not agree that's not enough to win the election.
LEMON: Well, it's just interesting that for people who believe in liberty, which I take them at their word. They believe in liberty and independence and freedom and all of those things. That they would be in their estimation this is why they're doing it, in my estimation, if they are doing it for that, then they would be lemmings, following someone rather than thinking for themselves about what is best for them and for other people around them.
Dr. Reiner, I want to bring you in. Because I was referencing you in the open when I talk about working for the American people. You said that. You are talking about the vice president forgetting that he worked for the American people and then I brought it out about other people working for the government. The and president forgetting he works for the American people. The president shows he shows a mask. Won't wear it on camera. What happens when the president refuses to wear a mask, what do people at home think, do you think?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I think some people emulate him and refuse to wear a mask in the supermarket and then propagate coronavirus and people die. I agree with what John says about some of the reasons this president is so defiant about the mask.
But there's another really big reason. Is that every time we talk about this, we don't talk about the fact that almost 100,000 Americans are dead. That this administration has failed to test, has failed to provide ventilators and PPE for healthcare workers. Has failed to protect our most vulnerable, the elderly a third of the deaths are in nursing homes. So, every time we talk about a drug like hydroxychloroquine last
night, or masks. We're not talking about the massive failure that have -- the massive that have resulted in the deaths of almost 100,000 Americans. That's why he brings this nonsense up. It changes the subject.
LEMON: I wish we had more time, gentlemen. But you know you're on almost every single night. So, we'll see you soon. Thank you very much. Have a good evening.
President Trump doubling down on his false claim that voting by mail leads to widespread voter fraud. What makes him so sure that everyone voting will be a bad thing for him. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:00]
LEMON: So the president is railing against mail-in voting. He seems really, really concerned about that, even though there is a pandemic gripping the country, falsely claiming it leads to widespread fraud, even though studies show voter fraud is extremely rare in America's elections, including in places where vote by mail is widespread. So, what's behind the president's repeated false claims?
Let's talk about it with CNN's senior political analyst Ron Brownstein. I always love what you have to say, sir. I love having you on. So, good evening to you. Everything safe, everybody good?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, everybody good, yeah, here in California, you know. Still a little rocky, but we're doing OK.
LEMON: Good for you. So, why is the president so against voting by mail and attacking two key swing states that are expanding in Nevada and Michigan?
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, well, look, the president, I think, is, you know, continuing his -- two things. One is since 2010, certainly, since the Shelby County decision by the Supreme Court in 2013, there have been a lot of efforts by Republican-controlled states, governors, and legislators in various ways to suppress the vote and to make it harder to vote: voter ID laws, closing early voting places, and so forth. I think he is continuing in that effort.
The second thing is that he is trying to lay the groundwork to argue that the election is illegitimate if he loses. Having said that, I think the president, Don, has fundamentally lost this war already.
If you look at the six states that both sides agree are most likely to pick the winner, that's Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, across the Rust Belt, Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, across the Sun Belt, in all of them, under the existing law, anybody who wants to vote by mail can do so for any reason.
So he's fighting it, delaying action at the margins, trying to make it tougher. But the structure is there, for what is likely to be a vast increase in voting by mail in the states most likely to pick the president in November.
LEMON: The studies show voting -- voter fraud, Ron, is rare in the United States --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: -- including places where vote by mail is widespread. But here is the president. This is on Michigan in mail-in voting. This is earlier today. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We don't want them to do mail-in ballots because it's going to lead to total election fraud. So we don't want them to do mail-in ballots. We don't want anyone to do mail-in ballots.
Now, if somebody has to mail it in because they are sick or by the way because they live in the White House and they have to vote in Florida, they won't be in Florida, if there is a reason for, that's OK, if there's a reason. But if there is not, we don't want to take any chances with fraud in our elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Frequent Trump critic Senator Mitt Romney said Utah's vote by mail system works very well.
[23:35:00]
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: Who is to say that more people voting by mail wouldn't help President Trump?
BROWNSTEIN: Right. Well, look, I mean, first of all, in 2016, the best evidence is about the same share of Republicans and Democrats voted by mail. About one quarter of all the ballots were cast by mail in 2016. There are estimates that it's going to go in one in two in 2020.
There was a poll this week, NPR/PBS/Marist poll. Half of Americans said they intend to vote by mail. And as I said, the president -- what the president was just saying there, the bar -- the horse is out of the barn. In about five states, everybody votes by mail.
Thirty more states, however, roughly 30 more states, including the big six that are likely to pick the winner, in those state, you can already vote by mail for any reason.
The structure is there for a big increase. And, of course, the irony is that in many of these states, Don, I think you know, Republicans have emphasized vote by mail more than Democrats have, in Arizona, in Florida. And in many of -- in those key Midwestern states, the Republican Party now is working very hard to promote vote by mail among older white voters who have been their base. So, I mean, he is turning against a tactic that Republicans had used. His campaign talks about their success at kind of promoting vote by mail. I think, again, it is about laying a rhetorical groundwork to question the legitimacy of the election in November.
One other point, the big question is whether states will be able to handle this increase. In Arizona and Michigan and Florida, there is a tradition of voting by mail. A lot of people have done it. In North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, it is not much, about one in 20 historically. So if you're getting up to four in 10 or five in 10, that's a huge logistical challenge and it's not clear that the states are up to it.
LEMON: Oh, boy. We'll be watching and following. Thank you, Ron. I appreciate it.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Alarming spikes in new coronavirus cases hitting some states now, including several in the south. What is behind the increase, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Troubling new numbers tonight with more states reporting an increase in coronavirus cases. Seventeen states are now showing an increase in the number of reported cases, 12 showing a decrease. That's nearly twice as many states reporting increases as the week before.
And although the first wave of coronavirus hammered big cities like New York, there are fears that southern states like Alabama and Arkansas could be the next hot spots.
So joining me now to discuss is Andy Slavitt. He is the former acting administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. Andy, it is good to see you. Thanks so much. Alabama, let's talk about that, one of the states seeing a troubling increase. Today, the mayor of Montgomery, Alabama said that he is worried about the conditions in his city. Listen and we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR STEVEN REED (D-AL), MONTGOMERY: If you're from Montgomery and you need an ICU bed, you are in trouble. If you're from central Alabama and you need an ICU bed, you may not be able to get one, because our health care system has been maxed out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That is got to be alarming for medical professionals. How quickly can some of these cities become overwhelmed if the virus really starts to spread?
ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CENTERS FOR MEDICARE & MEDICAID SERVICES: Well, first of all, Don, sadly, we will have spikes. We'll have them throughout the country. Until we have better testing and contact tracing and isolation capability, we're going to be playing a little bit of whack a mole.
So, anybody, whether you are in Birmingham or anywhere in the country that feels safe, that feels a sense of security, we still have to be vigilant.
The thing that worries me about Birmingham and that worries me about some of these southern states is exactly what the mayor said, which is once you get to about 70 to 75 percent of ICU bed capacity, because of how long it takes from a case to turn into a hospitalization, you will quickly run out of the hospital capacity and you'll be able to see it coming because -- but you might not see it until it's too late.
And so I worry that during the month of May when we're having a little more opening and people are out a little bit more, as cases grow, as soon as we spot it, we have to be able to act quickly, and we're not yet in the position to have that good of information.
LEMON: Yeah. Let's talk -- there are other states, too, where we are seeing increases. Southern states like North Carolina, Mississippi, as well. We know this virus is extremely contagious and cases can explode exponentially.
How easily could these spikes turn into something catastrophic? Because you said we are going to see spikes, right? It is going to go up as we start to open up. So, what if it spikes into something catastrophic? How quickly can we see this?
SLAVITT: Well, you know, I think the lag time that occurs, between the time when we start to see these cases and when it convert to a really big spike can be a matter of weeks. So we have to pay really good attention to the data.
There is a way to open safely. And opening safely is what we need to be doing in this country. No one is suggesting that we need to just sit and lock our doors and not go out.
[23:45:00]
SLAVITT: We can open businesses with proper precautions, with proper testing, with proper contact tracing. So, we can move along in a positive direction. It's never going to be perfect. But what's going to be frightening is when you have states that you're pointing to that don't see these things coming and they could quickly escalate.
Nothing magic happened while we were staying home during this lockdown period. It is not like the virus got less contagious or less deadly or any of the properties changed. It's still there. I know that it's not easy for all of us to somehow kind of wish it away when we don't pay attention to it for a little while. We have to be very, very careful.
LEMON: Andy Slavitt. Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate it.
SLAVITT: Yeah.
LEMON: A big new development in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. The man who recorded the fatal shooting is now under arrest. The latest in the case, just ahead.
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LEMON: A major new development tonight in the investigation to the killing of Ahmaud Arbery, who was chased down and shot to death in late February while he was jogging in a Georgia neighborhood. There was little progress in the investigation for two months until video of his killing was released publicly.
The man who recorded this video, William "Roddie" Bryan, has now been arrested and faces charges of felony murder and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment. He is the third suspect to be arrested in the case.
I want to bring in now Lee Merritt, the lead attorney for the family of Ahmaud Arbery. Benjamin Crump is with us, as well, also an attorney for the Arbery family. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on to talk to us about this this evening.
Lee, I'm going to start with you. Arbery's family has been calling for Bryan's arrest since the beginning, and you have never been satisfied with the characterization of him as just a witness. So, what do you and your clients say about this arrest tonight, Lee?
LEE MERRITT, ATTORNEY AT MERRITT LAW FIRM, LEAD ATTORNEY FOR THE FAMILY OF AHMAUD ARBERY: I can say that Wanda Cooper and Marcus Arbery, they were both very, very relieved to see this arrest finally take place. Not only have we been waiting since the McMichaels were arrested but they have been waiting for over three months for all three of these men to be brought to custody.
LEMON: Why did you think he -- ultimately think he had something to do with it other than just being a witness and shooting the video?
MERRITT: Well, the initial police report sort of described his role in it. The idea that he was just a witness in recording the video, that is a recent invention. His role in this ambush was well-documented in the original police report and is demonstrated by the video.
LEMON: Ben, the investigation wasn't moving until this video that Bryan shot became public. Now, he is in police custody. I mean, this really is a stunning turn of events. When you think about it, if it wasn't for the video, you know, we may not have known, the country or the world may not have known exactly what happened to Ahmaud Arbery. And now, the man who shot it is in custody. BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR THE FAMILY OF AHMAUD ARBERY: Absolutely, Don, and it's based on that video and probable cause why he is in custody.
And, Don, since his lawyer, the lawyer for Mr. Bryan came on this network and called out my brother Lee and I by saying that us calling for him to be arrested somehow put his client in danger, well, he can rest assured and the Arbery family can be relieved as well, because based on the rule of law, he has been arrested.
I am certain that he is safe in the Glynn County jail, and the Arbery family would like him to remain safe in the Glynn County jail.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. The first two DAs, Lee, had to recuse themselves due to ties with the McMichaels. Those were the two brothers who were arrested initially that you see on the video. What does Bryan's arrest today say about the initial handling of this investigation?
MERRITT: It says that it was bungled from the beginning and we should be looking forward to the next step in this which is the federal investigation that should follow.
LEMON: Ben, the district attorney, Holmes, was appointed on May 11th, 10 days ago. Since then, a search warrant has been executed and we had this arrest now. Is that encouraging for the family as this case moves forward?
CRUMP: It is very encouraging, Don. D.A. Holmes has said from the beginning, she will zealously prosecute this matter. And both Wanda and Marcus have said from the beginning that they want the entire lynch mob, anybody who was involved, to be held accountable for executing their child.
LEMON: Do you think there will be more people who will be involved in this?
CRUMP: Lee and I were talking about this. We believe the police officer that sent that text message has some culpability. We believe this was an organized effort to confront and capture Ahmaud Arbery based on the color of his skin, Don Lemon.
LEMON: So, you think others will be -- might be arrested here?
CRUMP: That is our demand.
LEMON: I want to ask you really quickly because -- Lee, if you, quickly, because we were on, we talked about William "Roddie" Bryan taking his -- remember his attorney had that press conference, saying that he took a polygraph and we talked about polygraph, junk science, and all that, and now he's arrested.
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LEMON: What do you say to that?
MERRITT: Well, I'm glad, as Attorney Crump said, that the rule of law ultimately prevails. It's been entirely too long for this family and we know that we have to continue to see it through to a conviction.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. Thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us. We invited Mr. Bryan's attorney on, Kevin Gough, the attorney for William "Roddie" Bryan, but we have not heard back from him.
Actually, he declined to come on. I did not alert my producers. I spoke to him. I didn't speak to him, I texted him. He did not want to come on tonight. He said he did not have, you know, comments. So, again, there is no comment from him. He did not want to come on.
Thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues. Be safe.
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