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Don Lemon Tonight

Americans Celebrated Memorial Day Forgetting There's A Pandemic; President Trump On Attack Mode Against His Opponents; New Disease Impacting Children In At Least 26 States; Memorial Day Crowds Spark Fear Of New Virus Peak; Americans Flock To Public Places As Death Toll Nears 100,000; Family Attorney Says Department Of Justice Investigating Ahmaud Arbery's Death As A Hate Crime. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 25, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hundreds of cases of multisymptomatic inflammatory syndrome in children, a condition that doctors believe could be link to the coronavirus. Health departments across this country identifying more than 350 confirmed and potential cases in at least 26 states at Washington, D.C. -- and also Washington, D.C. We're going to have more on that in a moment.

That as this Memorial Day weekend the death toll from coronavirus in this country, well, it passes 98,000. We're closing in on the 100,000 mark.

There are more than 1.6 million reported cases across the country. As states reopen and Americans crowd into pools, beaches, on to boardwalks.

That as the president of the United States marks the holiday with solemn moments at Arlington and at Fort McHenry in Baltimore. That is a solemn president, the teleprompter president, the one who shows up from time to time.

But the real President Trump, the unfiltered president, as always, comes out on Twitter. As this president is spending Memorial Day weekend lobbing threats, conspiracy theories and insults with more and more Americans dying every single day from the coronavirus.

The president makes fun of Joe Biden, of him being a real man, being a responsible adult. Makes fun of him for wearing a mask. Retweeting this from a Fox News host. A mask that is really one of the only ways that Americans can protect themselves now.

A mask just like one million of Americans have been wearing for weeks. Millions of you. A mask that the president is afraid to be seen in and still refuses to wear in public.

And then there is the president's extremely irresponsible bullying and potentially deadly threat today in the middle of this deadly pandemic. To move the Republican National Convention from Charlotte unless North Carolina's Democratic governor can guarantee they'll be allowed to have a packed house. A packed house. Get this, in a state that has already seen more than 24,000 cases of coronavirus.

A Republican source telling CNN the president is trying to make Governor Roy Cooper the bad guy so that if changes have to be made, he takes the fall.

But this president on Memorial Day weekend as the death toll from the coronavirus gets closer to 100,000, this president really taking the low road, getting into the mud with his insults and accusations against anyone that he views as a potential enemy.

There's his attack on a Democratic congresswoman -- congressman, I should say, and veteran Connor Lamb. The president calling him, quote, "an American fraud." Just days ahead of Pennsylvania's primary. And falsely claiming that the congressman voted for Nancy Pelosi for House speaker. He did not.

But facts don't matter to this president. As long as the lie takes down someone on the other side. There's the president's doubling down on his baseless accusations that MSNBC's Joe Scarborough with whom he has a running feud had something to do with the death of an aide in a 2001 -- in 2001 who hit her head and died in what police ruled an accident.

Does he care at all that there is a grieving family out there? Apparently not. If you can wield a young woman's death as a political weapon.

There is the president retweeting a supporter called -- who called Joe Biden a racist, insulted Hillary Clinton, slammed Stacey Abrams, a potential running mate of Joe Biden's for her appearance and threw in another slam calling Biden a racist.

The President of the United States tweeting and retweeting garbage on a weekend that is supposed to be about honoring American heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice.

And with the coronavirus still ravaging this country, the president criticizing someone about their weight. Perhaps he doesn't own a mirror or a scale.

And for this president of all people to attack Biden on race, you would think that the words would stick in his throat. If he had any shame at all. Now, the fact is when Joe Biden said this to Charlemagne tha God on the Breakfast Club, it didn't land well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or for Trump then you are not black.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joe Biden knows it was a joke that was inappropriate in that moment. And that his familiarity with black culture would be over scrutinized. So, he apologized for that the same day, in a call with the national black chamber of commerce.

The former vice president saying, quote, "I shouldn't have been such a wise guy, and insisting that he doesn't take black voters for granted."

So Trump calling Biden a racist is rich because there is an enormous difference between an ill-timed joke made by a man who served alongside the first black president and a man who launched his political career trying to tear down the first black president and promoting the racist birther lie that that black president was not born in this country.

[22:05:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility. I'm not saying it happened, I'm saying it's a real possibility. Then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A racist lie that he reportedly still believes behind closed doors. And let's not forget this is the president who said this about deadly white supremacist violence in Charlottesville.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people -- in that group -- excuse me. Excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This is a man who danced around the question of whether he would disavow David Duke, the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke, OK? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists, so I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

Did he endorse me or what's going on because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke, I know nothing about white supremacists, and so you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He called black athletes who dare to protest police brutality and racial injustice sons of bitches.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners when somebody disrespects our flag to say get the son of a bitch off the field right now? Out. He's fired. He's fired.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He called African-American -- excuse me African nations sending immigrants to this country, quote, "shithole" countries and on and on and on, but Joe Biden is supposedly the racist? It's shameless.

And then there's the president self-serving attempts to convince Americans that we can all go back to our pandemic - pre-pandemic normal. And for this the president -- nothing says normal like a few rounds of golf.

I've got to be honest. I really don't care if the president golfs. Nobody cares. Well, except this president. Tweeting today that he doesn't -- he hasn't golfed in almost three months and attacking the former president Barack Obama for golfing.

Well, here's the issue with that. He sure cared a lot about his predecessor's golfing. He talked about it over and over and over. Let's roll the tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Obama, it was reported today played 250 rounds of golf.

Everything is executive order. Because he doesn't have enough time because he's playing so much golf.

Obama ought to get off the golf course and get down there.

I'm going to be working for you. I'm not going to have time to go play golf.

He played more golf last year than Tiger Woods.

This guy plays more golf than people on the PGA Tour.

I love golf. I think it's one of the greats but I don't have time.

But if I were in the White House, I don't think I'd ever see Turnberry again. I don't think I'd ever see Doral again.

But I'm not going to be playing much golf, believe me. If I win this, I'm not going to be playing much golf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That's the issue here. Hypocrisy. And projecting. Project much? The fact is just yesterday President Trump made his 266th visit to one of his golf courses since taking office less than three and a half years ago. At this point in his presidency, it's important to point out that

Barack Obama had played 98 rounds of golf. That is according to a count by CBS News. And you know what they say? There is a tweet for everything. Because Donald Trump tweeting in 2014, quote, "President Obama has a major meeting on the NTC Ebola outbreak with people flying in from all over the country but decided to play golf."

The death toll from Ebola in this country, two people. The death toll from coronavirus right now, closer and closer to 100,000. Those are the facts.

CNN's White House Correspondent is Kaitlan Collins. And I want to bring her in now. Kaitlan, good evening to you. Thank you so much for joining us.

There is a very serious question tonight about where the country is heading with the rates of infection. And tonight, and tomorrow morning people will see this headline about half of the states investigating cases of dangerous syndrome, this dangerous syndrome in children, but none of that has been top of mind for the president this weekend, has it?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, it hasn't, and the president is active on Twitter every weekend. His aides know it. They prepare for it. But this weekend really did stand out when you saw what the president was focusing on, what he was choosing to amplify and what he was not drawing as much as attention to, including the death toll getting close to 100,000, unfortunately, here in the United States.

[22:10:03]

And instead the president was repeating these conspiracy theories about an anchor and murder that are baseless and have been debunked. He's amplifying a message from one of his supporters disparaging several politicians, a supporter we should note who has a history of racist and sexist remarks.

And that's what the president was focusing on instead. And then yesterday, you know, we were talking about how he spent two days playing golf this weekend. He was criticizing the media for covering the fact that he went and played golf two days in a row this weekend during the pandemic, something as you rightly noted, he criticized his predecessor for doing.

LEMON: So, you know, he golfed this week at his property in Virginia. And there's new reporting tonight about the pandemic taking a toll on President Trump's properties. They've had layoff -- they've had to lay off, what, a number of employees, too. Tell me about that, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, 250 employees have been permanently laid off from the president's property in Doral. That's the one in Miami, of course. And this comes as you're seeing some of these properties start to open back. Some of the golfers expressed gratitude that they're opening up.

The president himself visiting the one in Virginia for the first time in several weeks now over the weekend, twice in a row. But we are now learning that, you know, these employees who work at these properties are facing similar consequences.

And we don't know the full scope of it because of how the Trump organization is run and what they have to publicly report and what they don't, but my colleague Kara Scannel has gathered this information. About 250 people at the property in Miami who are now permanently laid off from their jobs as a result of what's been going on and the closures from the coronavirus pandemic.

LEMON: Kaitlan, I mentioned this in my open, but the president is threatening to pull the Republican National Convention from Charlotte. How real is that threat?

COLLINS: It depends on who you ask. Some people who are close to the president say it's just bluster. They just want to make sure that they actually find out what the conditions are going to be with the state officials in North Carolina, you know, what -- how many people are they going to go in? What's that going to look like? What's their standard for cases inside the state when it comes to late August?

Some people say the president is completely serious about this because he wants a convention that is as he's envisioned it with thousands of people as it usually is. And the question is whether or not that's something that's realistic no matter what state he's in.

Because you saw that after he made that threat to yank it out of North Carolina, even despite they've already spent money on it, work has already gone into it. I think it's pretty much unheard of to change a convention this late in the game.

State officials from Florida and Texas were volunteering to host the convention there. Now, they go -- there is a lot of effort that goes into which states bid on these conventions, how they prepare for them.

They're a big economic boost for the states, but the president seems to be believing that the Democratic governor there is playing politics and he's got this concern that somehow, they're going to thwart his convention over this.

We should note the Democratic convention is just the week before in Milwaukee, so they're both facing these concerns. And Charlotte officials say they'll put out guidance in the coming days, they say next month, over what these major events in their city and their state are going to look like.

And it's just really hard to say, you know, what the country is going to look like by the end of August. And, Don, another question is whether or not the president's own health advisers, people like Dr. Birx, Dr. Fauci would say about having a convention packed with people in just a few months.

LEMON: We'll continue to discuss this. Thank you, Kaitlan. I appreciate that.

Here's our breaking news tonight. More than half of states are investigating hundreds of cases of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, which doctors think could be linked to the coronavirus. A top doctor has what you need to know. That's next.

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Our breaking news tonight, more than half of states now investigating hundreds of cases of multisymptomatic inflammatory syndrome in children, an illness doctors believe could be linked to the coronavirus.

The CDC says emergency warning signs may include trouble breathing and turning blue in the face or lips.

I want to bring in now Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He's the director of the Cardiac -- Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington University Hospital.

Doctor, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining. Happy Memorial Day as well.

A majority of states now investigating hundreds of cases of this pediatric inflammatory syndrome. By CNN's count, 350 cases in at least 26 states and Washington, D.C. Is the idea that COVID-19 doesn't impact kids, is that officially out of the window now?

JONATHAN REINER, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION PROGRAM, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Well, I don't think the notion was that it didn't affect kids or infect kids, I think the original thought was that it didn't really result in any kind of significant longtime sequela for children, that the risk of a child dying would be very, very unlikely.

So what we've seen over the last several weeks is this new syndrome which looks like a disease, a fairly rare disease which has been described for many years called Kawasaki's disease, which is primarily a disease of young children under the age of five, often of Asian descent, which manifests itself with this very red, what we called erythema rash. It can involve multiple organs. It's an inflammatory disorder sometimes affecting the arteries that give blood to the heart. And this looked very much like it.

Now, Kawasaki's was thought perhaps to be a sequela of viral infection. So now that we're seeing this outbreak of a very similar disease and particularly in children who test positive for the COVID- 19 antibody, this looks like a post-viral response.

So, a post-viral inflammatory response to having been infected with the COVID-19 virus. So, not a primary effect of the virus, a secondary effect of the virus.

[22:20:09]

LEMON: Yes. So, let's dig in a little bit more because that's frightening still. REINER: Yes.

LEMON: As you're talking about this. But as frightening as this is for parents to hear, the vast majority of coronavirus cases are adults, older adults in particular hit hardest.

REINER: Right. And so, if you think about this, even though this is relatively rare, you know, if you think about it, there are about 1.5 million infections in the United States, and so, 300 cases is relatively rare.

But the more you identify something, the more you recognize it, the more you recognize it, so my guess is that we're going to see this -- the instance of this rise dramatically.

But the importance here is that as we start to think about school, and we heard the president over the last few days urging schools to reopen. Nothing can happen to the kids. This is what parents worry about.

It doesn't matter what schools want to do. It matters what parents are willing to do. And for parents to send children back to school, they need to have confidence that their children are going to be safe. And, you know, this disease is scary. And parents are going to think about it.

LEMON: Yes, I'm surprised -- I'm often surprised to hear parents this summer saying I'm afraid to send my kids to school come fall, but they're in -- they're eager to send their kids to camp because I guess they want their kids, you know, to have something to do, but there is no difference, they still will be around kids and still have the possibility of potentially being infected. I think the two are the same.

But I need to move on because we're going to run out of time and I want to talk about this --

REINER: Yes.

LEMON: -- potential vaccine here because today the Maryland-based biotechnology company called Novavax, doctor, became the tenth company worldwide to begin trials on a coronavirus vaccine. That is a big step.

REINER: Right. So, there are probably 100 vaccines around the world which are in some stages of development. There are a handful that are moving quickly. There is the Oxford vaccine which uses sort of an older method. There is a Chinese vaccine which is probably the furthest in development using actually quite an old strategy, basically it's a killed virus.

And then there is the Moderna virus out of Boston which uses a never tried before very elegant strategy of actually giving bits of RNA to have the recipient actually produce some elements of the viral particles that antibodies respond to. What I like about all of this is the various players are using

different strategies to create a vaccine. And this is what you want to see. You don't want to see companies using the same technology or the same techniques to create a vaccine.

You want to see all these different paths which will, you know, likely increase the possibility that we'll have an effective vaccine in a reasonable amount of time. So, I'm encouraged to see these very elegant, different strategies.

LEMON: Thank you, Dr. Reiner. I appreciate your time.

REINER: My pleasure, Don.

LEMON: I want you to take a look at this because not only is it pretty shocking, but sometimes you just don't see how you look sometimes until people show it to you. You get caught up in the moment. OK.

Because this is a pool, a pool party at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri. A massive crowd of people crammed together as if it were just an ordinary holiday weekend, despite the risks of a virus that has killed more than 98,000 people. What the sheriff there thinks about this, next.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Newly reopened businesses and beautiful weather had a lot of Americans out for a taste of summer this Memorial Day weekend, but with crowds packing beaches and other public spaces, health experts are sounding the alarm.

CNN's Jason Carroll has the story now.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: After weeks of caution and confinement --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wouldn't know a pandemic was going on by looking at the beach today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Memorial Day weekend is looking almost normal in some places. Crowded beaches and busy boardwalks seemingly little sign of social distancing and even fewer face masks. In Missouri, shocking images of the packed pool party in the Ozarks causing concern.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Traffic is completely shut down.

(END VOICE CLIP)

CARROLL: More crowds in Daytona Beach, Florida, where gunfire erupted as people stood shoulder-to-shoulder and blocked traffic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR DERRICK HENRY, DAYTONA BEACH, FLORIDA: When you get this volume of people, it's going to be tough to control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: In other areas, more vigilance with some communities encouraging people to maintain six feet of distance on the beach. In New York City, beaches remain closed.

And normally a gathering place for remembrance on Memorial Day, Arlington National Cemetery is open only to families with loved ones buried there. Today the World Health Organization warns we could see a second peak of the virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE RYAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: We cannot make assumptions that just because the disease is on the way down now that it's on -- it's going to keep going down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Another WHO official says all countries should remain on high alert since the hallmark of the virus is how fast it can spread from a single event. In the United States, at least 18 states are showing an upward trend in COVID-19 cases and health experts warn Memorial Day weekend gatherings have the potential to spark a new string of infections in some areas.

In Alabama, the Montgomery mayor is again sounding the alarm over ICU beds.

[22:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR STEVEN REED (D), MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA: This morning we have six ICU beds out of 100 in this region and so, while that is some mild improvement, it is not the type improvement, we'd like to see.

CARROLL: And in Arkansas, the governor is already warning of a second peak.

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AL): It's clear and evident to me that we have one peak and then we've had a deep dip, and then we're having a second peak.

CARROLL: While governors and health officials are urging people to wear masks in public, the governor of North Dakota now pleading with his constituents not to judge those who do.

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): They might be doing it because they've got a 5-year-old child who is going through cancer treatments. They might have vulnerable adults in their life who are -- who are -- currently have covid and are fighting.

CARROLL: As deaths relating to covid-19 near 100,000, The New York Times publishing a stark reminder of the humanity behind the numbers. John Herman Clomax Jr. of New Jersey taken by the virus in April was one of the few African-American corporate bond traders on Wall Street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just seeing all of those names, you realize the vastness of this pandemic. You realize the immensity of it.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Jason Carroll, thank you so much.

We have some breaking news tonight. Public health authorities issuing a travel advisory urging anyone who may have been at the Lake of the Ozarks to self-quarantine for 14 days if they failed to practice social distancing.

So, let's discuss this now. Joining me now is the sheriff of Camden County, Missouri, and that's Tony Helms. Tony -- sheriff, I should say. Excuse me. I want to be respectful. Sheriff, thank you so much. We have just learned just a few minutes ago that the St. Louis County Department of Public Health is issuing a travel advisory urging anyone who may have gone to the Lake of the Ozarks, that big pool party, to self-quarantine for 14 days if they didn't social distance.

I mean, the look -- it doesn't look like hardly anyone there did it. So they don't like what they saw happening in your jurisdiction. Give me your response to this news and what happened over the weekend.

SHERIFF TONY HELMS, CAMDEN COUNTY, MISSOURI: Well, as far as St. Louis response there is -- the governor has lightened up all of our restrictions, you know, trying to do it in phases, and right now there's no laws for me to enforce. What happens on this is St. Louis, Kansas city, a couple other major cities in the state of Missouri have a little stronger, stricter guidelines that they're -- the governor has allowed them to do.

Now, we have not. Most of these people are second homeowners to the lake. I don't know how they could stop them from coming to their own residence here. That would be a problem.

LEMON: OK, I understand what you're saying, but the issue is not them coming to their own -- their second residences, it's the issue is about social distancing. Because something has opened up doesn't mean the rules of social distancing have gone away. Or are not to be followed.

HELMS: No.

LEMON: They're still saying follow the rules of social distancing, and if you look at the video, which is in your jurisdiction, even from this restaurant -- let me put this video up of the restaurant. Another video, its Blackwater Jack's bar and grill. They say they took safety measures by checking temperatures, offering hand sanitizer and they tried to reduce capacity.

But, I mean, if you look at a place like that in the summertime, maybe there's a limit to what an owner can do. I don't know. But this does not look like social distancing to me. I don't understand what owning a second home and not following the rules of social distancing have to do with each other.

HELMS: Social distancing is not a crime. And, therefore, I have nothing to enforce or to arrest for. That's our stance here. I have taken that stance since this has started. We encourage our citizens to use good common sense and good health practices.

They've all seen it on the news, on CNN and other channels, so they know what they're supposed to do. Social distancing is not a crime. I can't enforce something that's just not a law.

LEMON: So, you cannot -- you can't give a warning or a citation? Because other police departments and law enforcement agencies around the country seem to feel differently and they are enforcing rules of social distancing and handing out citations. Then what is -- then what is the point of having this if it's not -- if it's not enforceable, sheriff? With all due respect.

HELMS: Well, first of all, I can't speak for other states. I don't enforce their laws. The only thing I enforce in Missouri statute and county ordinances.

[22:35:00]

Now, the county did have an ordinance, they did establish on this. A few weeks later they withdrew the ordinance. They took it back off the books. I would -- I agree with you. There needs to have been something done, but I have no authority to go in and shut down anybody. I don't know what they really expect me to do. It falls to the health department in the state of Missouri. That is who has the authority and the jurisdiction over this.

LEMON: So, what would the health department do then? Should the health department come in and start arresting people or issuing citations and then what would they do with the -- who would enforce that?

HELMS: Well, I guess you would have to talk to the health department. I certainly wouldn't leave them hanging. If they have some kind of complaint, which we have not had a complaint all weekend from any businesses or anything that's going on with the social distancing or traveling through the community.

Look, we're a very small community of about 47,000 people. We entertain 500,000 people this weekend. So the people that left and was down there, I don't know. Most of us, we stayed home, but some people chose not to. And, again, I don't think it's good. I think the people are not practicing what they've been taught. But it's not a crime. And I know it's hard for people to swallow. Feel free, you can research it under 192.290 RSMO. It just does not.

LEMON: Well, sheriff, I think you're absolutely right. It is hard for people to swallow and -- because, you know, places like we live here in New York, you know, people are getting, as I said, they're being arrested.

HELMS: Sure.

LEMON: There are citations. And then where you are, and you said, listen, it's not a crime. If there are no laws on the books that says you can enforce them, I certainly understand. It is confusing because there is not one single, you know, law or rule for everyone around the country, so it is confusing. Sheriff, I have to run, but I thank you for your time and I appreciate you coming on CNN. Best of luck to you and you be safe as well. Thank you so much.

HELMS: Thank you. I appreciate it.

LEMON: Thank you.

Crowds across the country skipping social distancing and masks on this holiday weekend. Will there be a spike in cases? I'm going to ask the doctors next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: More and more Americans are getting out this Memorial Day weekend, but the large crowds, many people without masks are raising fears about the spread of coronavirus. Here to discuss is Dr. Craig Spencer. He is a Director of the Global Health in E.R. medicine at New York Presbyterian Columbia University Medical Center, and Dr. Leana Wen, she is an emergency room physician and the former Baltimore city health commissioner.

Good evening and hello to both. Welcome back to the program. Dr. Wen, I'm going to start with you. You know, crowded beaches in South Florida, in Florida, there is South Carolina, there's also Delaware, packed pool parties in Missouri and Texas. What goes through your mind when you see images like this from all across the country this weekend?

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER HEALTH COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE: Yes, I'm very worried when I see these pictures because they could well be the images of the next outbreak. I can very well imagine public health officials investigating events like that as the next cluster. Because we've seen it before. We've seen that large pool parties and gatherings are where there's one potential person who is infected, who could spread it to dozens or even more people.

And I think there is this fundamental misunderstanding, Don, about what reopening is because reopening doesn't mean that the virus has somehow changed. This is just as infectious as ever before, and, in fact, we have to be on guard even more, if people have to be going back to work.

Frankly, it's irresponsible to also be opening up and doing all these social activities that are voluntary, but, unfortunately, break social distancing and are exposing everyone to more contagion and a wider spread in the community.

Listen, I was trying to get with the -- completely understand the constraints that the sheriff, local law enforcement folks are under because there isn't -- there isn't one rule for everyone, right? There is a -- everyone is taking their own -- everyone is taking a different approach, and they're not even -- they don't even really have to follow the guidelines that the -- at least, you know, what the White House put out, the recommended guidelines from the White House.

So, people don't know what to do, even in St. Louis County's advisory, Dr. Wen, recommends that employers may want to consider adding a question related to recent travel and social distancing behavior. In their current guidelines to screen employees, but, I mean, who -- businesses want to open up. Quite frankly, and I can't blame them. They want to get as many people in there as possible because they've lost so much business, right?

People want to get out because they haven't been out. So what -- what do they do? Shouldn't this be the government? Shouldn't this be maybe the White House and the administration recommending one singular plan that makes sense health wise, a smart plan?

WEN: Well, this is the thing. We all want the same thing. We all want to reopen and we all want to do so safely. And there are ways to do that. That's why the CDC guidelines are so important, because they do offer a road map for businesses to reopen. They offer common sense things like cleaning procedures and staggering shifts for employees and other things that help people be safe and get back to normal life as much as possible.

And I think that's the local -- that's the work of local public health as well. It's not to arrest people, but to educate, and I think that's what the sheriff could be doing as well, to have the police and everybody in the community illustrate that we are all in this together. That my actions affect yours and your outcomes and we all need to take part.

[22:45:09]

LEMON: Not arrest people. Well, I think -- you don't want to know what I think. Dr. Spencer, look, it looks like -- there's almost no one social distancing at this beach in Indiana. Take a look at this. But you say that you're worried about shaming people that don't follow guidelines. Why is that?

DR. CRAIG SPENCER, DR. GLOBAL HEALTH IN E.R. MEDICINE, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Look, because I think right now, quite honestly, the majority of people are doing what public health experts have been asking them to do. Everyone knows that this virus cannot infect you if it does not find you. People are rightly concerned, concerned about themselves and concerned about their family.

I know when I go out for a walk, the majority of people are wearing a mask, the majority of people are social distancing. The reason that that -- that image from the Ozarks was so powerful, because I'm hoping it was quite singular. I know that as we get into warmer weather, people are going to want to go outside, going to want to get back to some type of normal life.

The frank reality is that right now we can't do that. We don't have the tools, we don't have anything to protect us and prevent us from getting infected. The overwhelming majority of Americans, greater than 90 percent of Americans, have not seen this virus, have not been infected by this virus and don't have any protection from it.

We are all susceptible, even if over the summer the number of cases decreased in some places or in all the country, we will undoubtedly be seeing this virus again for the next few months, and maybe even more so in a much greater way later this fall and this winter.

LEMON: Yes, listen, I don't know if, you know, I don't know if it's arresting people, I don't know if it's citing people. Listen, shaming people. I don't know. But I do know we have to come up with something better than the honor system. Because that obviously is not working when you look at this video.

And anyone who has been out and about over memorial weekend, anyone who is alive and who has eyes, right, who is living, they know that people are not following the rules. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

Listen, we have an update for you tonight on the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. He is a young black Georgia man who was chased down and shot to death back in February while he was out jogging.

Well, his killing caught on videotape, right? An attorney for the Arbery family is now saying that the Justice Department is investigating his death as a hate crime. A move the family was demanding. Three men are now under arrest, all facing murder charges. We'll be right back.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: With summer fast approaching as the nation grapples with coronavirus pandemic. Parents want to know if it's safe to send their children to camp this year. Lets' get some answers from Dr. Aaron Carroll, a professor of pediatrics in Indiana University School of Medicine. Dr. Carroll, thank you very much.

By the way, he has a piece in The New York Times under the headline, how to lower the risk of infection at summer camps. Again, Dr. thank you. So, you know, there's so many parents across this country who want to know will my kids be able to go to camp this summer. What's the answer?

DR. AARON CARROLL, PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS, INDIANA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Unfortunately it's a lot of it depends. First of all it depends how bad the infection and the rate of the prevalence is in the area in which the camp is being held. And it matters how much testing is available. And how much control the camp might have over keeping everybody safe. On top of that it matters about how well they can do with spacing and

distancing and all the transportation up and back. And cleaning facilities and making sure the counsellors and staff are being safe even when they are not at camp. And you know, given your previous segments and how people really aren't taking this seriously, we want to have camp, but it requires people to make certain sacrifices and to do a lot and it doesn't appear at the moment that lot of people are giving it enough thought.

LEMON: OK. So then, all right, give me some specifics on what parents should be looking for their camps to be doing if they're going to open.

CARROLL: Well, first of all you want to know that the first of all summer camp is a whole different story. Because it's very hard to imagine with people coming from a long distance for most of summer camps right now that it could really work.

But for day camps, first of all you want to know that in your area there isn't that much disease. That is it a reasonably low level that there's not significant risk on an outbreak. But in order to have that we have to have enough testing in the local area to know that we actually know that there's not a lot of disease. And too much of the United States we're just not there yet.

But if we did get there, what we really want to know is that the camp really thinking about how kids are going to get to and from camp? Are they really cleaning buses, are making sure that they are safe or requiring drop off. Are they requiring everybody to stay outdoors at all times? If they go inside, are they really pushing for masking and making sure that everyone is socially distancing?

Are they thinking through how meals are going to happen? So, it is not buffet style and everyone eating on top of each other. Are they keeping the sizes of groups reasonably small so that kids are not all on top of each other?

And are they really doing the screening and testing that is going to be necessary to make sure that the kids aren't getting infected, staff aren't getting infected and no one is really at risk. We can do it, it's certainly possible. But it doesn't appear that in much of the country we're putting the infrastructure in place to do so.

It's frustrating.

LEMON: I'm going to tell you, I mean, I'm -- it's not even frustrating, listen, I don't have kids, yet. I'm just surprised that any parent would even be considering sending their kids to camp right now.

CARROLL: So, I think it's important to know that, you know, while some parts of the country have been really hard hit. There are a lot of parts of the country especially not on the coast that have weathered this a little bit more smoothly.

[22:55:05] Because of that, there's a general sense of I want my kids to be able

to do something in the summer. Isn't it possible that we can set up something safe where that could occur? And the frustrating part is, it is doable. I mean, the playbooks are out there. We could do this. If we would commit to ramping up testing appropriately.

If we would commit to actually setting up and subsidizing it in a way that would make kids safe. And we are going to have to start thinking some of this stuff through because they want to have school in the fall. And if we can't figure out how to do camp and it's going to be even harder to figure out how are we going to be do school. When it's much harder to change the size of classrooms and we can't keep everybody outside.

LEMON: Yes. Different time than when I grew up. Listen. The unknown is just scary to me as an adult. If I had a kid I think it would be scary. Look, we had a water hose, bicycle, a slip and slide. And a tree. We were good the entire summer.

CARROLL: Yes. And I get it. Like my kids go over to camp. Their camp has been cancelled. It's only endorsement.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you Doctor, I appreciate it. Thanks for watching everyone. Our coverage continues now with CNN special report, "China's Deadly Secret." It's right after this.

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