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Don Lemon Tonight
Fmr. Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) Was Interviewed About President Trump's Statement About the Riot in Minneapolis; POTUS' Habit of Heard Stuff; Huge Bail Set for Derek Chauvin; Domino Effect of Protests Seen in Many Cities; Protests Spread Over the Death of George Floyd Under Police Custody. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 29, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
FMR. SEN. AL FRANKEN (D-MN): You know, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. That's the old Nixon playbook.
(CROSSTALK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Let me ask you, let me jump in here. Because you mentioned the president. He tweeted out last night, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. A phrase that was used in 1967 by Miami police chief who had a long history of bigotry against the black community. He tried to clean it up. Let's play this and then I want to hear what you have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've heard that phrase for a long time. I don't know where it came from where it originated. I view that phrases --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 1967, the Miami police --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- chief used it.
TRUMP: I've also heard from many other places. But I've heard it for a long time as most people have been. Frankly, it means when there's looting, people get shot and they die and if you look at what happened Last night, and the night before, you see that. It's very common. And that's the way it was men and that is the way it was supposed to be meant. But I don't know where it came from, I don't know where it originated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What do you think of that? FRANKEN: You know, he has this history of having heard stuff. Having
heard that you know, Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Having heard that Joe Scarborough murdered a staffer. This guy heard stuff. He doesn't take responsibility for passing off this stuff. It's just incredibly ugly.
LEMON: Who are the leaders right now? Who do we look to? Who should America look to for guidance and inspiration in this moment? Because it appears to me that you're saying it, and many more people as well, saying we can't look to the White House for this sort of leadership that we need in a moment like this. Who are the leaders?
FRANKEN: I think we have to look for the people and communities who are doing the real work. You know, I do a podcast. I had the founders of No -- No Kid Hungry, their leaders. That's another one of the terrible things that has been revealed in this. We have now one out of five children who are, don't get enough to eat in this country.
LEMON: Yes.
FRANKEN: We have all these disparities and access to health care. It's the people that are taking this stuff on, those are the leaders, and they're in our communities and they're in our states. Those are our leaders.
LEMON: Yes. Former Democratic Senator from Minnesota, we thank you for joining us, Al Franken. Thank you so much, sir. I appreciate it.
FRANKEN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
LEMON: Absolutely.
FRANKEN: You, too, Don.
LEMON: So, it is just past the top of the hour here, 11:02, almost 11:03 Eastern Time.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Eleven o'clock hour as we said here in East Coast. It is Central Time in Minneapolis.
A city that is under curfew tonight, supposed to be, at least, hours after a former police officer, Derek Chauvin was charged with third degree murder in the death of George Floyd. His bail is set at a half million dollars.
Despite the curfew, protesters and police have been facing off on the streets of Minneapolis tonight and protesters have been clashing with police all across this country, we're carrying it all for you live on CNN.
Our Sara Sidner is in Minneapolis. We have Ed Lavandera who is in Dallas. We also have Miguel Marquez who is out on the streets of Minneapolis as well.
If we can put up some of the scenes and show this is all playing out around the country, Miguel Marquez, let's give to it to Miguel Marquez now who is in Minneapolis.
Miguel, thank you for joining us here at the top of the hour. You've been marching around and around. You said this started in one part of Minneapolis, and now you have marched through downtown, and so on and so forth. How much ground have you covered? Where are you now?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a good workout. We're done several miles through downtown and now we've exited off the 35 W. I want to give you a sense of sort of what it looks like. They've lost some of the protesters but most have stuck with them. But it's now strung up a long way, along 35 W. And they are moving toward -- it's not entirely clear. They may be moving toward the fifth precinct as well with where Sara Sidner is heading to.
But check this out. Turn around this way, Ken. And they have not only -- not only protesters walking now, but they have several cars that have sort of joined the protest as well. And it's now just, sort of, a merry caravan.
[23:05:02]
It is worth pointing out that it has been entirely peaceful. Sometimes angry. But entirely peaceful. A few people doing some graffiti. When others saw them doing the graffiti, they would shut them down. They go, stop doing it. Bottle throwing, which is not uncommon.
So, there is some of that, but for the most part, they have been very, very peaceful. They haven't -- they haven't been destroying anything. They like to take it out on the media, as everybody does. But rather than, you know, yell at us and throw stuff at us, not in a mean way.
LEMON: Yes.
MARQUEZ: We'll be fine.
LEMON: Yes.
MARQUEZ: It looks like we're probably turning toward the end of the number of people who are coming off the freeway now. I'm guessing they probably lost half of the protesters here in this long march along 35 W to this -- to this segment, Don.
LEMON: Well, we'd rather not have the foul language but we will take that instead of property damage and fires and fighting.
MARQUEZ: Indeed.
LEMON: Yes. And you're right. We're an easy target but we can take it. Thank you, Miguel. We're going to get back to you.
Another part of Minneapolis now I want to take you to is where we find our Sara Sidner. Sara, so -- excuse me. You're doing a lot of walking. Miguel is doing a lot of walking. Where are you and what are you seeing?
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm just taking you -- we're going as close as we can. This is the post office here. And I think it's getting a reflection of a dumpster fire to your left. There is -- the fire is there. It is just reflecting. Dumpster fire here.
This is Shane's Garden, a Chinese restaurant. And then to your left, again, you will see the stop and shop store that is also a gas station. And people have been kicking at it and starting to sort of kick down the boards that were put up.
Now we're going to go back to the precinct. Just giving you an idea of what things look like out here. We're going to walk down towards the precinct. With that, Styke (ph). We're going to walk, walk across so that you can see kind of where everything is.
And again, this is not the third precinct that has been burned. This is the fifth precinct, about three miles away. And so, as we walk past here, and as you see folks gathered here, you can see folks coming out of the stop and shop taking whatever it is they want. They did finally get into the actual building there.
Just to the left of that, is the fifth precinct. And there are police officers. We are finally seeing police officers standing on the top. Standing on the top of the fifth precinct there. They have the telltale nonlethal weapons that we've been seeing the whole time that we have been here which are either bean bags or rubber bullets. Something that can shoot gas canisters, flash bangs.
So far, they have not deployed any of that but several times they have pointed those nonlethal weapons at protesters trying to breach the fence. And you can see someone trying to breach right now. That will be met.
There are four officers you can't see, but if you come here, Styke (ph) is going to get you a closer shot. That is a protester standing next to a cameraman. And if somebody breaches that fence, you will see four officers come forward on the top of that fifth precinct there and point their weapons down trying to keep people from breaching that fence.
There have been several attempts but people have fallen back just because they can see that there is going to be a whole lot, a whole big whiff of gas in their face, or a rubber bullet if they get over that fence. There have been a few that have dispose --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: These are -- Sara?
SIDNER: -- but so far --
LEMON: Are these the only officers you're seeing? The ones on top of this fifth precinct?
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: There's somebody getting up on the fence.
LEMON: Go ahead?
SIDNER: That is right. We have not seen officers since we walked from lake in Minnehaha, which is where the third precinct is, about three miles to the fifth precinct. We have not seen a single officer except, Don, when we first got here in the afternoon before it got dark.
Before it got dark, there was the state police, a line of police all the way surrounding the perimeter. There were the sheriff's deputies behind them. And then when they fell back, the National Guard rolled in with their military vehicles. They came in fairly large numbers. Not larger of course than the number of protesters here. They fell back.
LEMON: Yes.
[23:10:01]
SIDNER: And they fell so far back that literally some of the protesters could not find them. They were walking towards where they were going and then ended up three miles out, three miles or so out to the fifth precinct where now their ire is focused here. Because as you know, the third precinct is damaged. They've attacked it. They've burned it. And they have sort of left that as a shell of itself, Don.
LEMON: It looks like a tourist attraction with people going in and out, at least from my point of view.
SIDNER: Yes.
LEMON: When I see people walking in and out of there, probably ogling that, my gosh, this is a police station. Just a quick question because I have to get to someone else, Sara. Those officers on top of that fifth precinct, can you tell what kind of weapons they have? Is it serious stuff or is it rubber? Do you know?
SIDNER: Yes, I do. We've been seeing these same weapons on top of the third precinct for the last 48 hours. They are nonlethal weapons. Now these officers certainly --
LEMON: Non-lethal.
SIDNER: -- have lethal weapons on them.
LEMON: Got it.
SIDNER: But what they are holding are nonlethal weapons. It's either going to be tear gas, rubber bullets, bean bags or flash bangs.
LEMON: Sara Sidner, we will get back. Thank you very much.
Listen, this is our breaking news. We have some breaking news in this case against the fired Minneapolis police officer, Derek Chauvin. Bail was set at $500,000, a half million dollars as Chauvin was arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter in the death of George Floyd today. Now I want to get down to criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson who
has some information for us, Joey. And he is going to walk us through all of this. So, Joey, half million dollars bail for this fired officer. Give me your reaction to that first.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: My reaction is that we are in some troubled times, Don. And it just seems that so many times you and I are having these conversations, you are having these conversations with so many people. What's going on, right?
And so, we're here again and it's just a different name. And so, my reaction is one of, you know, what is this country becoming? And where are we, and the fact that we have a case like this, where you have someone putting their knee on a human being's neck for nine minutes, three of which, they're nonresponsive. It's just heartbreaking, it's disgusting, it's outrageous.
So, my first reaction is not a legal reaction. It's a human reaction. And the human reaction is where is the humanity? And so, yes. That's my first thinking. And so, the fact that we have to talk about this again and again and again and again and we have this divide between the police and communities where there is a total lack of trust, for good reason. Where there is a total disconnect for good reason. Where there needs to be a gap that's bridged. Right?
It's just -- it's a really -- we're in a really bad place and we need to move out of this place and change the whole culture of what's going on. So that's my first reaction.
LEMON: So, Joey, as I'm looking at some of the information here that I have from you, this is partial information. You have a much fuller context. I understand that you have the bail documents, right, from Derek Chauvin?
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: Walk us through that. What do they show?
JACKSON: So, what happens is this. What ends up occurring is that you have of course the warrant of arrest. And what that contains is, it contains a probable cause statement in terms of the facts of what you're alleged of, Don.
I think we all don't need to go through those facts, Don. We all know what we saw happen and we don't need a rendition from lawyers who otherwise indicated what occurred. We saw it, right?
So, after that then it becomes or before that, what are you going to charge him with? So, the document also consists of the charges. And what do we know? We know that one charge is third-degree murder. What does that mean? And then there is the manslaughter. What does that mean? And then I'll get to the bail.
Third-degree murder. People are asking. What's that all about? What's about is you don't have to show intent. Normally, Don, we're talking about murder, people are thinking about deliberation, premeditation, lying in wait.
No. That's not the only murder you can have. You can have something else. It's called depraved indifference. What does that mean? It means that your acts were so void of humanity, it means that you did something so inherently dangerous that you knew or certainly should have known that it would lead to a death. You just acted in such a careless way.
That without intent could be murder. That's what's charged. It's punishable by 25 years. That's on the document. And so, if prosecutors don't get that as they move forward, they have another theory. And what that theory is, Don, is manslaughter.
And manslaughter says that you can act so carelessly, you can act with just such a lack of care and disregard that you consciously disregard the risk in your careless behavior that someone could die. That's manslaughter. It's punishable by 10 years. That's also in the document.
And then you get down to the issue of, well, what about bail, right? Bail is generally given to someone to ensure their return to court. Now let's be clear. There are some instances where people face murder, Don, where, in facing that murder, they're remanded.
[23:15:00]
What does remand mean? It means that there is no bail you can pay me. You're going to be in custody. They didn't seem fit to do that here. What they did was they offered a half million dollars bail. What that means is he can make that bail, or could have, some reports, maybe he did, that he can make that bail if he puts up 10 percent of that. So that's essentially what all of this is about.
LEMON: OK. Joey Jackson, thank you very much. We'll get back to you if we -- if need be. I want to get to Kyung Lah now. Kyung joins us. You see the pictures there of Los Angeles. Kyung Lah is on the streets of Los Angeles with some new information. Take us through what you're seeing on the streets. Kyung?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What the L.A. -- well, we're seeing an incredible presence by the Los Angeles Police Department. I'm going to see if we can move you a little bit closer so you can see how the police officers right now, they have created a line here.
We are just east of the 110 freeway. That is the main artery through downtown Los Angeles that we've seen protesters try to get on the freeway, try to block traffic. And what we're seeing now is the LAPD basically splintering this protest group and we're in one small group.
I'm going to have you turn you this way as my photographer George takes a look at the crowd. This is one small group of a number of groups spread out across downtown Los Angeles. And so, the way police are handling these groups is with crowd control. Trying to use their batons. Trying to use their helmets and their shields.
OK? We're moving? And remember, the police officers right now, there -- we can see that they're trying not to touch people because we are in the middle of a pandemic. About half the people here are wearing masks. Police officers are wearing shields and then some of them are wearing masks.
But then what we're seeing are protesters getting right in front of the faces of these police officers. The other thing I want to point out, Don, is that, you know, a lot of these people who are here on this roadway, they have cell phones. And so that is something you certainly are seeing --
LEMON: Kyung?
LAH: -- these officers being cognizant of, Don.
LEMON: We're going to get back to you, Kyung. Thank you very much. I need to get to Washington, D.C., and my colleague Brian Todd is there standing right in front of the White House. Brian, take it away. What do you have?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, a very tense event here in Lafayette Park in front of the White House. They have tried to reinforce these steel frame barriers. And these protesters are resisting. And it's been very, very tense. A lot of confrontation here with the Secret Service police. Some pushing, some shoving, some hitting, water being thrown, bottles being thrown. It's very tense.
As you can see our photojournalist David Brooks is kind of elevating his shot here so that you can see what the park --what the -- excuse me -- the Secret Service police are doing to try to hold this crowd off.
But this crowd has been very, very angry and confrontational with the police here. Every time it seems to escalate, the crowd kind of moves back. The crowd seems to be policing itself a little bit here.
See? They're trying to get people to back up as the barriers get pushed more toward us. But it has been a real tug of war for the last, I'd say, at least 30 minutes here. And it's gotten violent at times.
Don, this is the third time today that the scene in front of the White House has gotten violent. The same kind of situation here with the barriers being put up. Protesters knocking down the barriers, confronting police. That happened earlier today.
There's also a scene where the Secret Service police led a gentleman away who they were trying to apprehend and the crowd turned on the police, throwing objects at them, beating them. That was earlier today around the sic o'clock hour. Let's see if we can get a view of what's going on here.
Again, more --
LEMON: Ed, we can see what's happening. Someone is throwing -- something is throwing at police officers. We've lost Ed momentarily. I would imagine it's just -- excuse me -- Brian Todd, momentarily. I would imagine it's just that he was unplugged. They'll plug him right back and then we'll get him back.
But you can see protesters there they are pushing these barricades trying to at least pull these barricades away from police officers. And it looks like they're doing a pretty good job and they've gotten them away. These protesters getting into the face of police officers standing right in front of the White House at Lafayette Park.
Let's listen to this just for a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're now in fucking (Inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
(CROWD CHANTING)
LEMON: All right. Some foul language going on there. Others are saying hands up. Don't shoot. But we're going to stay with this. Because again, this is right in front of the White House. And a very large police presence there.
Brian Todd is not with us. But I'm just wondering how many people there are out there. We have a different camera angle that are there. One was Brian's shot. As soon as they get plugged back up, we'll show that you that one and then we have this one as well from one of our other photographers who are out there.
[23:20:06]
But they pulled that barricade away from police officers very quickly there in front of the White House.
So, and if you look to the left, they have erected a wall of sorts. I can't exactly see what it is. I'm not sure if they did that just today because of this. The probability is that they did. And then obviously behind that wall is the normal gate to the White House at Lafayette Park.
Now protesters yelling, black lives matter at the officers there. It's interesting, when you take, there's -- when you look at the difference between this and the Los Angeles Police Department. Listen, obviously, Washington, D.C. used to dealing with this. Probably one of the most protected cities in this country, if not the most because of members of our government and the president, obviously.
The difference between this police department and the one in Los Angeles. Los Angeles police trying not to touch anyone. And yet this police department is struggling with folks and I guess they have really no other alternative if they want to keep those barriers erected and keep that distance and that space between these protesters and the White House and to keep them from getting any closer and possibly breaching that wall.
But these officers showing considerable restrain here with the protesters who are getting in their faces. Which is, you know, what officers should do. They are taught to deescalate and not escalate situations like this. So, as we watch these pictures, this scene plays out in Washington, D.C., remember there are others that are happening around the country. A police officer just got pelted with something there in the crowd. You saw to the left of your screen there.
But as we watch -- there we go. You get -- you get an idea of the size of this crowd. And it's pretty considerable in Washington. Again, police officers getting pelted with, I'm not -- who knows what is in those bottles? But so far here we have not seen the rubber bullets come out, we have not seen the tear gas come out, we've not heard the flash bangs or any of that.
It's just police officers or officer of the law battling against protesters. There they are bringing more police barricades in, more objects being thrown into the crowd for police officers.
I'm being told by producers, we have Brian Todd back. He's on the phone. Brian, you're right in the middle of this crowd that we're watching right here. We're watching this crowd throw things at police officers and there is a struggle for the barricades. What are you seeing?
TODD: Don, it's a very violent struggle for the barricades -- excuse me. And I've just gone back and forth between both sides a couple of times. It seems like the protesters have gotten the upper hands a couple of times. They've been able to rip away parts of the barricade and kind of call them away and just toss them. And then the police will go in. Bring another part of it and try to reinforce.
And when they do that, the protesters confront them. They throw things at them and the police try to hold the ground. It has been a very intense push and pull for I'd say at least an hour now. And you know, these protesters aren't going away.
The park police are -- excuse me -- the Secret Service police are trying to get a handle on, you know, just how they can keep this crowd at bay. They have not made any arrests that we've seen. But it's been very, very intense. That noise that you hear is just another part of the barricade that is fold away and thrown off.
We did see a Secret Service police officer get injured and taken away. A woman. She seemed to be OK. She was able to walk away under her own power and was helped by a colleague. But that was one thing we saw. There was another instance where a protester was down on the street and others were helping her a moment ago.
This is the third time, Don, that it has gotten violent here in front of the White House that we've witnessed. We witnessed a very similar scene here with the barricades and with the push and pull with the barricades a few hours ago. We also witnessed a scene where the police were trying to take away a protester and other protesters turn on the police and pounded them with fists and objects and bottles. And that got very intense.
And that actually breached the Treasury Department complex a little bit. They had to call that man into a Treasury Department building to get him away from the crowd.
LEMON: A couple things, Brian, if you let me jump in here to explain.
TODD: Yes.
LEMON: Because, you know, talking about this, the wall in front of the White House. It has been a minute since I've been, not to Washington, D.C. I've been recently been to the White House itself. I understand this -- the barrier that you see there is part of the wall project? They're building a new wall.
This new thing that they've built, this temporary fence, they're building a new fence that's 13 feet tall. The White House fence was seven feet and they are building a taller fence. So that's where you see this temporary fence that has been erected in front of White House and it has been there about a year now.
[23:24:59]
But my question to you Brian is, when they are struggling with these police barricades, the Secret Service police and the park police as you so definitely pointed out, when they grab -- when the protesters grabbed these barricades and push them back, what happens to these barricades? Do they -- do officers just run and grab another one and this just disappear in the crowd somewhere?
TODD: That's the kind of what we've witnessed. The officers will run off, grab other barricades, come slide other barricades over, try to reinforce, again you'll see a push and pull with the protesters. The protesters have successfully ripped out and basically hauled away a couple of steel frame barricades that we've seen.
These things are about, I'd say about eight or nine feet long, and about four feet tall. So, they're not easy to carry around but these people have been able to haul them away and toss them.
LEMON: Yes.
TODD: So yes. The police do seem to have reinforcements that they can run and get. But it's not, you know, it's just a very violent struggle here.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. Brian Todd? I want to you stand by, Brian. You're seeing two different scenes in two different cities play out. One in the east and one in the west. Los Angeles on the left of your screen, 8.25 p.m. Pacific Time in Los Angeles. And then it is 12.26 -- 11.26, I should say -- excuse me -- here on the East Coast and in Washington, D.C.
So, you're watching these scenes play out. Just a moment ago on the left-hand side of your screen, you saw live a police car, a Los Angeles police vehicle being vandalized. Someone trying to break out the windows. Someone else drawing on with it a marker. Since then, two officers have gathered in front of the car and they're pushing those protesters back. So again, two different scenes, two different cities. Two big American
cities tonight, protesters have gathered, police are trying to hold them at bay. So far it appears to be no big fires, as there were last night when Minneapolis was burning. Other side of the break in just moments we'll see you.
[23:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: As protests spread across the country, we are learning more about the events of the day George Floyd was killed from the criminal complaint filed by the Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman.
So let's discuss now. Carol Powell-Lexing is a civil rights attorney who has worked with Benjamin Crump, the Floyd family attorney, in the past. We're so happy that she is here joining us. Thank you so much. Listen. Let's talk about these murder charges. Murder charges are now filed against Chauvin. Does the family feel any sense of relief or justice from this?
CAROL POWELL-LEXING, CIVIL RIGHT ATTORNEY (via telephone): Of course not. The charges that the Hennepin County D.A. office lodged against Derek Chauvin are charges of a lesser-included offense. The D.A. should have started off charging him with first-degree murder, because you have the charge starting off that only carries 25 years, and so you're looking at a situation where the police officer is more than likely trying to get off and nevertheless received just a slap on the wrist.
So, no, the family would like for those charges to be enhanced to first-degree murder, because we actually see a battery taken place when Mr. Floyd was taken out of the vehicle and later, a knee is placed on his neck, which facilitates the crime of murder to enhance it to first-degree murder.
LEMON: Ms. Powell-Lexing, I want to ask you about this line. It's from the criminal complaint. The county medical examiner writes this, and I quote.
"The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions, including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death."
What is your response? Are you concerned about the implication of any of this? What he wrote?
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): I'm highly concerned. When you have a coroner -- more than likely, he is a coroner that has worked with the police department on numerous occasions involving excessive force cases -- there is a serious problem when we actually witnessed the police officer's knee on the -- on Mr. Floyd's neck, and Mr. Floyd was saying, I can't breathe. In fact, in the state of probable cause, the statement says that Mr. Floyd had indicated prior to that time, had told the police officers that he couldn't breathe when he was standing beside the police cruiser. Now, Derek Chauvin pulled him out of the vehicle. Mr. Chauvin -- Mr. Floyd fell, and then we saw the officers put a knee to his neck.
We saw two other officers in the third video, one on his back and one holding his legs down, and that itself showed that when Mr. Floyd was saying that he can't breathe, shows that there's some type of inhibition of oxygen getting to his lungs or to his brain that would inhibit him from being able to breathe. So, yeah, we see asphyxiation. Yes, we see strangulation. So the coroner report is false.
LEMON: So the obvious follow-up question to that is an independent autopsy. Are you going to conduct one or demand one at least?
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): The family will be demanding an independent autopsy. It is paramount that an independent autopsy be conducted. I'll tell you why --
LEMON: Did we lose her?
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): -- that is being --
LEMON: Can you -- can you start that over because we lost you, Ms. Powell-Lexing?
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): OK. I'm sorry about that. I said we see the same old typical reports from coroners that work directly with the police department. When you have the coroner working directly with the police department, you're going to get the same type of reports that is trying to exonerate police officers from their culpability.
[23:35:06]
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): Now, you do not see in the so-called preliminary autopsy report that officer or the ex-cop put his knee on the neck of George Floyd.
LEMON: All right.
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): That is not in that report. We know the report is flawed.
LEMON: Carol Powell-Lexing, who is working with Benjamin Crump and the Floyd family, Benjamin Crump, the attorney, and the Floyd family, thank you so much. We appreciate your time.
POWELL-LEXING (via telephone): Thank you for having me.
LEMON: Thank you. We're watching these scenes play out in cities all across America. Protesters in Minneapolis are ignoring the curfew tonight as outrage spreads over the death of George Floyd. I want to get to a break real quick and then we will discuss. We'll get back to the streets and then we will discuss whatever we have left to discuss here. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So here is our breaking news on CNN. Derek Chauvin has been charged in the death -- has been charged with murder in the death of George Floyd. This is the breaking news. This is a statement from his ex-wife's attorney or his wife's attorney, soon to be ex-wife. OK, so, it says in a statement from the Sekula Family Law Office and attorney for Kellie Chauvin, the wife of ex-Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin has filed for dissolution of marriage.
[23:40:00]
LEMON: Here is the quote. It says, "This evening, I spoke with Kellie Chauvin and her family. She is devastated by Mr. Floyd's death and her outmost sympathy lies with his family, with his loved ones, and with everyone who is grieving this tragedy. She has filed for dissolution of marriage to Derek Chauvin," the statement said. Excuse me.
"While Ms. Chauvin has no children from her current marriage, she respectfully requests that her children, her elder parents, and her extended family be given safety and privacy during this difficult time."
Again, Dereck Chauvin was arrested today, charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in death of George Floyd. His wife has now filed for divorce, dissolution of marriage, which is a divorce.
So, protesters now in Minneapolis are ignoring a curfew order tonight as outrage spreads over the death of George Floyd. I want to bring in now the owner of a nightclub where both George Floyd and the fired Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin worked.
Joining me now is Maya Santamaria. She is the owner of El Nuevo Rodeo, the club in South Minneapolis. Also, I want to note that we have reached out to Derek Chauvin's attorney for comment on all of this, but we have not heard back. Maya, thank you for joining us.
MAYA SANTAMARIA, OWNER OF EL NUEVO RODEO WHERE BOTH DEREK CHAUVIN AND GEORGE FLOYD WORKED: Hello.
LEMON: I bet you never thought that you would find yourself in this position, you would be on international television, talking about two people who worked where you work, who actually were your employees. It is difficult to watch this tape. Americans have been shocked and horrified by it. But you knew both of these men. Give me your reaction when you saw that video.
SANTAMARIA: I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. My heart really goes out to the Floyd family. He was very loved in the city. This is a very tight-knit community. There is just a disconnect between the community that is here in Minneapolis and the cops.
LEMON: Yeah. So, earlier today, you said that you sense that Chauvin felt afraid when he was around African American men. What makes you say that? Tell me about that.
SANTAMARIA: You know, Don, I was in a lot of interesting situations with him through 17 years of running a club where we had urban nights and other nights. And that was just my instinct because there were times when there were little altercations and I wanted to talk to people and feel them out and comprehend with the situation.
He would go right into measures that were more police activity, pulling out pepper spray, wanting to call for backup. And so that was just my truth. I felt there were other ways of relating to people.
LEMON: What did you think of that?
SANTAMARIA: I did have a few words with him on a couple of occasions. But, you know, police always have a way of defending themselves in those situations. You know, he was an authority figure.
LEMON: OK. Tell me about those conversations. You said you had a few words with him. Whatever you can share, what did you say? How did that conversation go?
SANTAMARIA: Something like, why did you have to spray everyone with mace? If there is couple of people fighting, you could've apprehended them. Why did you have to spray everyone whether they were involved or not?
LEMON: Yeah.
SANTAMARIA: Why have so many backups come when we can just handle it ourselves?
LEMON: And he didn't do that when there were other people in the club who are not African American?
SANTAMARIA: I'm not going to say he never had issues with our customers, but I do know that he felt more comfortable with the Latino community than he did with some of our urban crowds that we would get with different promotions.
LEMON: Again, we reached out to him for comment on this, as well as the dissolution of marriage from his wife. We have not heard back from Derek Chauvin or any representative of Derek Chauvin. Thank you very much, Maya Santamaria. We appreciate you joining us. You stay safe, OK?
SANTAMARIA: Thank you.
LEMON: Now, I want to bring in Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. My, gosh, this must be surreal to you, watching this play out in your city. It is reeling right now. This is a volatile situation. What do you think of these protests and how police are handling it so far?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): I don't know if the word would be surreal. It is very, very real. I love the city, I live here, I love the state, and people are in so much pain. Anyone who watched this video, that had an ounce of humanity, saw what we all saw, which was a man's life evaporate before our eyes while a police officer had his knee on his neck.
[23:45:04]
KLOBUCHAR: That is the pain that I see in the faces of my constituents right now. That is why you see people protesting. We are hoping that people keep it peaceful and that people eventually come home here tonight because we need to rebuild our city, we need to heal, but mostly, the best way we can heal, Don, is yes with these charges, but then to take some very major actions when it comes to systemic reform of our criminal justice system. People are hurting. Our African American community is hurting.
LEMON: Governor Walz said today that the state police took over late last night when it was clear that Minneapolis could not control the situation. But the protests were violent for the previous two nights, someone even died on Wednesday. Did the governor wait too long to intervene?
KLOBUCHAR: No, the governor is balancing a lot of things. People have a right to protest. But we must keep our communities safe. If you look at some of the businesses that were torched or destroyed, there are many, many small businesses or somehow rocks thrown through windows, you name it, these are places that are owned by people of color in our community.
George Floyd worked at some of these places. Our heart is with his family and his friends today. There were murder charges being filed. You know that. But it is important to note that both the Justice Department has said that they have opened an investigation, and the local state attorney, the county attorney, has said that there may be additional subsequent charges.
I just think it's really important for people to know that this was a first step, not a last step. There has to be major systemic reforms, a pattern and practice of investigation of this police department. I called for that today with my colleague Tina Smith and 25 senators. This has to change, hiring practices and training, criminal justice system as a whole. There are so many things we can do. But right now, we want our community to heal.
LEMON: Listen, I know this is something that you want to address, because you are a former prosecutor there. Back in 2006, Derek Chauvin, the officer charged today in George Floyd's death, was involved in a shooting of a stabbing suspect, but was never charged.
You left her Washington just a few months later to be senator, so this was not your decision. But some say it was consistent with your record of declining to bring charges against multiple officers involved in shootings. Do you think that is a valid criticism?
KLOBUCHAR: Let me address the first point, and that is that there are people who are drawing things out there on the internet, saying I somehow declined this case, and that is an outright lie. The case was being investigated and my successor took that case, and about eight, nine months later, brought it to the grand jury.
I was literally not in the office. I was sworn in as a senator. Frankly, until today, I have not gotten to address this. I've been working with Reverend Jackson, working with Keith Ellison, working with our faith community, working with the people out there, trying to do everything we can right now to address what is before us. That is my job. But I do want to address that now.
Secondly, the bigger issue that you raise, Don, and you and I have talked about this before. Back then, police involved in deaths and shootings, they would go to a grand jury, in my office and throughout our state. I do not think that is a good practice. That is something that is now changed, and that's a good thing.
That means that the D.A. or the county attorney takes responsibility themselves for the decision, instead of bringing it before a grand jury. But that's just one thing. We have got to change all kinds of things.
When I was in the office back then, we had a new form of eyewitness identification to reduce racial mass identifications. We had 12 percent reduction in African American president incarceration. We did a lot when it came to drug courts and working on reviewing our convictions, our DNA convictions, and the like.
We know there is institutional racism in the system, and I don't think you have to go farther than that videotape to know that exists and what happened to George Floyd. But I hope that the legacy for him is that there will be major changes in our system, and I pledge to make those changes as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the senator from Minnesota.
LEMON: Listen, I'm up against the clock here because I have to get a break in, but I have to ask you this, because Congressman James Clyburn says he respects, you're qualified to be vice president, but he thinks that the unrest in Minnesota and your criminal justice record may impact your chances of become Joe Biden's running mate. What is your reaction?
KLOBUCHAR: I just can't do politics tonight here.
[23:50:01]
KLOBUCHAR: I have so much respect for Rep. Clyburn. In the end, Joe Biden was a great vice president. He is going to make the best decision on whoever he wants to govern with. I know he is going to bring compassion, as you saw tonight on your show, and he is going to bring confidence to the White House. That is the most important thing. He can pick whoever he wants. But tonight is not the night to talk about politics.
LEMON: All right. Senator Amy Klobuchar, I appreciate you joining us. I appreciate you addressing all of that. Thank you so much. Good luck. Stay safe.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. Thanks, Don. LEMON: By the way, how is your husband doing?
KLOBUCHAR: Oh, he is doing much better. He gave his plasma for the second time this week after getting over the virus. He is doing much better.
LEMON: Thank you very much, Sen. Klobuchar. I appreciate it. We're going to be right back right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Outrage is spreading around the country over the death of George Floyd. Police and protesters are facing off in multiple cities.
I want to discuss now with CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, the author of "My Vanishing Country," and also Blair Kelley, the author of "Right to Ride: Streetcar Boycotts and African American Citizenship in the Era of Plessy V. Ferguson." She is the assistant dean at North Carolina State University.
I'm so glad to have both of you on. Good evening. Bakari, you first, I've been saying that we have two viruses here. We got COVID, we got racism.
[23:55:00]
LEMON: At what point can black men stop paying the price for the fear of other people just for being, you know, around them?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know the answer to that. I hope it is when our children come of age that they no longer going out in public in fear because of the color of their skin. I want to correct something that people are saying on air and it's driving me crazy here in my home.
This protest is not just about George Floyd. It's not. When people are looking at these protests, these protesters, this rebellion that is going on around the country, I hope they have some empathy, because these people are going home, we are going home, black folks are going home, brown folks are going and drinking dirty water, going to poor schools, don't have an access to quality care,
And so this is bubbling over. This is about the fact that we have a George, Breanna, Ahmaud, a systemic racism, coronavirus. This is bubbling over in the street. People just don't sit at home and say, why are they doing this? I hope they actually try -- this is a lot. But I hope some people actually try to put themselves in the shoes of black folk in America.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kelley, I want to bring you in. Tonight, protests are spreading all across this country, a long history of this. And 1968 was when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated, Rodney King, Ferguson, Baltimore, Minneapolis, you heard Bakari mentioned about the conditions under which African Americans are living. These people are demonstrating against injustice. What has changed over time? What stayed the same?
BLAIR KELLEY, ASSISTANT DEAN, NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY: I think what is changing for our generation and this generation of young people that we see is it's full of grief and struggling with anger. It is a reminder that this is a hard time. This is a hard time. And the burdens of the previous generations, the hopefulness that we had, they are just not coming to for. They are not being seen. And I think so many people now see themselves in this case. They see their own suffering.
We have to reconnect this story back to the story of the coronavirus pandemic. We have to remember that we are suffering from unimaginable levels of unemployment right now. So many people don't have a job, aren't clear on exactly how they are going to care for themselves, and they see themselves in a country that does not care about that, to the extent that it should, and it does not care about their everyday lives.
So, the devaluation of black lives is profound at this point. The grief and the outpouring of rage is a response to this. We have to remember that there were moments of riots in the past, right, often precipitated by something that seemed individual suffering, but it became a collective response to a time. I think we are in a different time.
LEMON: Yeah.
KELLEY: I think this is a particular moment. We are all dealing with it. People all remember this in history.
LEMON: Bakari, what happened? Something seems to have changed. The dam broke. Obviously, you know, with the death of George Floyd. But this -- I mean, it quickly spread beyond Minneapolis as you look at what is happening here. Was this just the final straw?
SELLERS: People are just tired of this stuff. I had to catch myself, Don. My mom is watching. But people are just sick and tired of this. I mean, you know, we cannot even agree as a country. And I appreciate what she said. What she said is so valuable, because we cannot even agree in this country that black lives matter.
I'm not saying that my life matters more than Anderson or Cuomo or Alisyn or John. I am just saying that my life matters. As soon as we say that, we draw the ire of people in this country, half the people in this country, screaming and yelling --
LEMON: Bakari -- hang on one second, Bakari. Sorry about that. Listen, there is a violent confrontation happening right now between police and these are the secret service in front of the White House and protesters. You can see a protester in the middle trying to stop this confrontation from happening. I think this is an indication of exactly what we are talking about, the frustration that is happening with people who are out there among African Americans, but also, all Americans are frustrated by this.
African Americans are living it and feeling it. But I think all Americans are -- many Americans, I should say, are frustrated by it. They realize that it is time for a change. So, we have been watching these scenes all play out.
I want to thank Bakari, and I want to thank Dr. Kelley. I think what both of you said is very profound. I appreciate you joining us. Listen, we are going to be covering this until the coverage does not warranted anymore. But right now, we're in the middle of it.
