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Don Lemon Tonight
Peaceful Protests Filled the Streets; Four Officers Charged Over George Floyd's Death; General Mattis Criticized President Trump; NYPD Commissioner Do Not Condone Violence in His Turf. 10-11p ET
Aired June 03, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Nobody is calling for looting or anything like that. But you have to ask yourself why are they so desperate to shut the truth down? Why say something that's as false as all their other lies, because that's what they're about.
The ones doing violence to our quest for a perfect union are those who ignore what's happening on our streets. And making the symptoms more important than the illness that brought people to the streets in the first place. People are outraged with good reason.
The truth is, it's not on them to make Trump or his followers feel comfortable about their distress. They should blame leaders for inequalities and to shame them into doing better, see their massive numbers, see their eyes.
This president may play to certain people's anger, but his goal seems to begin and end with himself. America must be about more than one man's ambition to get to a better place. We must all be in it together to have a new normal.
Thank you for watching. CNN Tonight. D. Lemon now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I know what got under his skin today, two things. Mattis and the former president. You know how he respects the generals. You know how he really wants to be like Obama but he can't, so, you know, he says bad things about him.
But I thought today was really important. I got to say something. I think on -- I was on with Wolf earlier, and although I understand the import of what Mattis did, I think in the moment, I did not express myself the best way I could.
I think it's extremely important right now that General James Mattis is speaking out. I think people have awakened in this country. They -- and they're speaking out. They're not afraid to speak out, and they understand the consequences now especially after what the president what he pulled the day before yesterday with those protesters and then that photo-op with the bible in that church.
I think it's very important, people who would normally not say anything, people would normally be on this president's side, people who would normally stick with him no matter what and make excuses, I think that changed things.
I think what he did day before yesterday and what's happened in the last couple of days and his division of dividing people in this country as you so aptly pointed out in your closing remarks right there.
I think things are changing, and the former president in a matter of 15 minutes, Chris, put it all together very casually about who we are, what moment we're in now, what we should be doing and how to move forward. And this president hasn't been able to do that in almost four years. Shame on him.
CUOMO: Well, he also hasn't been trying. He's been trying to divide and concur.
LEMON: OK. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Because I'm going to let you finish, all right?
CUOMO: That's an odd way of doing that.
LEMON: I'm fully -- I'm going to let you finish. No. He has been trying. He doesn't know how. He's pretending to be a leader, and that photo op was -- it showed you, he doesn't know how to be president. He doesn't know how, Chris. It's not in him. But go on.
CUOMO: He is not trying -- I'll give you the incompetence point. I concede that point. He is not competent. But he is very well aware of what he's trying to do, and he's working very hard to keep this country as desperate as possible. He has been trying, Don. He's been trying to play to his base, keep it shored up --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That's not being president.
CUOMO: -- and kill off everybody. Of course, it's not being president. But that's what he's trying to do. Mattis is exactly right. Now, why didn't he say it sooner. Whatever. He said it now, and now is the moment. It will only be as meaningful as we make it.
Of course, Obama is able to articulate who we are at our best. He knows it. He is educated. He's a leader. And he pushed for progress. It takes more effort to do what Trump is doing, to keep Americans apart, to make things up, to make us not like each other, to use the word peaceful as, you know, a dog whistle to passive, come on, black people, be quiet. We like you quiet.
Of course, you do, because you want things to stay the same. But this is a moment. You know, you and I have resonated with a lot of people, because they're not used to seeing this.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They're not used to seeing a brown face and a white face, depending on how much make-up I have on. Talking about things honestly, and from a place of love, even though we don't see things the same way and don't have the same experience.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Imagine if this conversation becomes contagious all over this country. Amazing things could be done.
LEMON: That's what it needs -- that's what needs to happen. That's what needs to happen. And I've got to get to a conversation, I've got the commissioner of NYPD.
CUOMO: Strong.
LEMON: Dermot Shea on hold, standing by, you want to hear from him.
CUOMO: I do. But you know what I'm going to say before I leave?
LEMON: Yes. I love you.
CUOMO: I love you, Don Lemon.
LEMON: I love you too. I love you too, my brother. Take it easy. I'll see you soon.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
And we do have breaking news. Massive peaceful protests all across this country tonight.
[22:04:59]
America today, America today nine days after the death of George Floyd at the hands of police. Protesters still in the streets tonight, in spite of curfews in the country's biggest cities.
Getting in tonight, I got to tell you, I almost didn't make it in. They're trying to get into any entrance into this city is really tough. You got to show identification. You have to show that you're an essential worker. If you come in after that curfew, they're not going to let you in.
This city is under control at the moment by the NYPD and we're going to speak with them just moments from now.
All of this is happening as the fired Minneapolis police officer who pinned George Floyd to the ground with his knee on his neck was charged today with a new more serious count of second-degree murder. The other three ex-officers on the scene charged with aiding and abetting. All four are in custody, being held on $1 million bail each.
There they are, look at their pictures up on your screen. All four tonight. Held $1 million bail.
And after another day of protesters making their voices he heard from coast to coast, the former secretary of defense, we just talked about him, James Mattis tears into the president that he once served. Quote, "Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does
not try to unite the American people. Does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We're witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership."
The president responding of course tonight with an angry tweet that barely makes any sense. If any sense at all. Discussing his nicknames for Mattis, and claiming that he never brought home the bacon.
Interesting how much he talked about it, how much he loved him, mad dog, mad dog, he's the best. The former secretary finally saying that, what we have all seen with our own eyes -- and I just want to say tonight, it is never too late to speak the truth. Never too late to speak the truth.
The president has been divisive all along. Even before he was elected. And he's trying even harder to divide us now. Just look at what he's doing with thousands of people taking to the streets to peacefully protest, the death of George Floyd at the hands of police. He is raging about law and order, threatening to send the U.S. military into states and communities across this country whether they like it or not.
A threat he may be backing down on tonight saying, he doesn't think he'll have to. Well, that as the president is trying to duck the responsibility for that photo-op in front of St. John's Church. The one you see him there, with him scowling and holding a bible that wasn't even his own.
He sure wanted you to see the picture. He cooked it up that day with his top aides. He just doesn't want to take the blame for what it took to get it, gassing peaceful protesters. To drive them out of Lafayette Park. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They didn't use tear gas, they didn't use -- they moved them out. Now, when I went, I didn't say move them out, I didn't know who was there. I figured I was going to walk over to the church very nearby.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: And then there's the press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, comparing the president's walk across the street to Winston Churchill in a bombed-out London after the blitz.
OK, so let's remember, Churchill was battling the Nazis. The president is causing peaceful protesters, American citizens to be gassed on the orders of his attorney general who is supposed to defend the law for the people of the United States. So, he could have a photo-op. Think about that. Gassing the American people so he can have a photo-op.
But I want you to listen now to what a real leader sounds like. A leader who wants to bring us together not tear us apart. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And for those who are -- have been talking about protests. Just remember this country was founded on protest. It is called the American Revolution. And every step of progress in this country. Every expansion of freedom. Every expression of our deepest ideals has been won through efforts that made the status quo uncomfortable.
And we should all be thankful for folks who are willing, in a peaceful disciplined way to be out there making a difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We have NYPD commissioner standing by, let's get to the streets of this country first, in cities across this country. I want to get to Washington now.
CNN's Alex Marquardt is there. Alex, what's the scene in Washington tonight?
[22:10:02]
ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Don. This has been a peaceful protest all day right near the White House. I want to show you the scene right here.
This is a row as you can see of camouflage troops. We're trying to determine whether they are active duty or National Guard. We do know that around 2 to 3,000 National Guard have been called up. Not just from D.C., but from other states in the country.
There have also been some 200 to 250 soldiers who have been sent up here from Fort Drum, that's in New York, so down from Fort Bragg in North Carolina.
The mood here is changing, Don. This has been an entirely peaceful protest all day. This entire area was covered in protesters who were literally singing. It felt like a concert atmosphere. A lot of those protesters have since left. They went marching away.
But the way -- the way we've seen things go, is that they could come back. So, I want to bring you up here to the front, Don, because I want to show you, their -- the passion and the energy and the anger frankly, still remains. So, what's interesting about today, Don, is that the protesters have been pushed back well away from the White House.
As you know, they were -- they have been in and just outside the park over the -- over the last few days. Then there was that big fence that was erected overnight two nights ago. And here we find ourselves about half a block away from Lafayette Park.
Now that means that no one in the White House really can see this protest out here, especially because those two trucks are blocking the way. That, of course, right there, Don, is St. John's Episcopal Church. That's where the president carried out that photo-op out there.
We spoke with the rector of St. John's today, he told us that for the first time since 9/11 worshippers are not allowed to go to that church because these forces have blocked this off. These are federal forces. And this goes to this tense relationship between the federal forces that have swarmed the area, swarmed Washington, D.C. and the city of Washington.
And you have the mayor of Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser saying that she's worried about the federal footprint. The footprint of all these federal forces that are coming in. And frankly, the legality of military forces like this being on the streets of D.C.
Don, we are just under an hour from the curfew here in D.C. The last few nights it's been at 7 p.m. They pushed it to 110 p.m. tonight because the protests over the last few nights have been almost entirely peaceful. They remain so.
But, Don, when you listen to these voices, when you look at the time, you know how these things go, they can change. You can hear the energy. You can hear some of the tension. But they are peaceful for now, Don.
LEMON: All right. Alex Marquardt reporting for us from Washington. Alex, stand by. We'll get back to you as we continue here on CNN.
I want to get to Brooklyn now where there was an altercation between police and protesters tonight. Our Jason Carroll is there. Jason, what's the latest?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, this is where it all started. You know, we've been out here for the past few nights. This is the Barclays Center in downtown Brooklyn. There were about several hundred protesters who are headed toward downtown Brooklyn to Cadman Plaza. That's where you have the Brooklyn courthouse.
A number of other government offices, and that's where there was a stand-off with police. Police said that these protesters could not move any further. And Don, at that point they started to turn around. And then unfortunately what happened is, you saw a small group of them break off, surround a police car, that's when officers were called in for backup and the situation really turned ugly.
We saw dozens of people being arrested as they were confronting police there. It was really not the image that a number of these protesters wanted to see. They say this is not about violence, this is not about attacking police. It's about getting about the message about police brutality.
What we also heard and saw today was talking to a 12 and 13-year-old brother and sister African-American who I spoke to. I asked them about President -- President Obama and his message for hope for young people. Both of them said yes, we still have hope.
I also spoke to another woman in her 60s, African-American, she's a teacher, she came with her friend, a younger white woman in her 20s. Both of them came together.
So, really, it's about that as well. It's about people coming together in some senses, wanting to talk about police brutality, wanting to make things better. But then you have a situation like what we saw tonight where you have what was a peaceful protest, devolve into that -- into that moment of ugliness with police. Don?
LEMON: And, Jason, you know, I'm trying to -- I'm having a hard time trying to understand exactly what happens between the police and these protesters that seem to make these situations escalate. NYPD has been trying really hard not to engage the protesters or not to escalate. And then you have this particular situation.
[22:14:58]
I know they're offering explanations. I'm going to talk to the commissioner a little bit, probably after you. If we can get him lined up. But what are they saying anything out there on the scene about this? What's their response?
CARROLL: Well, here's what I can tell you from our observation. I mean, look, again, police have been really, in terms of tactic have taking a back seat being out here, allowing a lot of these demonstrators for the past few nights to march beyond curfew.
We saw that again tonight. These protesters were marching beyond curfew, which was at 8 o'clock. It was once they got to that one point at Cadman Plaza, and said, OK, this is where police say we're drawing the line. You can go no further. And we saw that last night as well at a certain point with the police not allowing some protesters again on the Manhattan Bridge.
Once they did that, they turned around, and the protesters were heading in the -- you know, away from police. It was when a small group of them, Don, started surrounding that police car that police immediately moved in and confronted it, and started to arrest those who were there.
So, one can reason if some of those protesters had not broken off and surrounded that police car, perhaps it would continue to be a peaceful demonstration. And so, the tactic changed, warranting whatever the situation was. But definitely it was not the peaceful demonstration that folks had wanted tonight.
LEMON: All right. Jason Carroll in New York City for us tonight. Jason, we'll get back to you. Thank you very much.
Commissioner Dermot Shea says the New York -- New York Police Department stands in solidarity with George Floyd's family and condemns what happened in Minneapolis. And Commissioner Shea joins me now. Commissioner, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us.
We going to talk about that very positive message that you had earlier, but I think it's only fair that you -- have you been able to hear Jason's report, you want to respond to that please?
DERMOT SHEA, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: I did. Don, thanks for having me on.
I think it's accurate, and I thank you for accurately reporting what we're trying to do. We're trying to have a softer touch as possible, and hear people, see people. We continue to reinforce that we respect the rights of people to peacefully assemble, and overall, it's gone very well in New York City.
We've had incredible crowds the last few days, by far, overwhelmingly, it's coming at people coming out, voicing their concern. It's just very small groups as he described vandalism, violence or things of that sort. It's a small minority.
The curfew is in place at 8 o'clock. No one should be on the streets in New York City unless they're essential after 8 o'clock, but we are flexible. And we are continuing to adjust as we keep this city safe, I mean, first and foremost, it's keeping people safe, and that's protesters too.
So, we are very fluid. There's certainly occasions where we could arrest a lot of people, that's never our goal, whether you're talking about the pandemic or here with protests. But we will also be pretty firm in terms of violence, in terms of vandalism or anything of that sort. So, it's a balance that we're trying to walk a very fine line.
You know, I thank the protesters, I certainly thank the men and women of this police department. Everyone is protesting and working in very difficult circumstances.
LEMON: Before we move on to what you said earlier today, I just want to ask you. As of this moment, can you just update us on the situation in New York City as to protesters, looters, what have you. What is it like now out on the streets? What are the reports that are coming back to you?
SHEA: Yes. We have thousands of people on the street. In a number of different groups. Primarily it's concentrated right now in Brooklyn and Manhattan. That's really what we've seen for the last five or six days.
There are some groups though that are on the move, there is some activity in some of the outer boroughs, but the concentration has followed a relative consistent pattern.
We have the people of New York City should know that we have more than enough police officers on the street that are monitoring the situation, literally closely, very closely. There's been a number of arrests tonight, so far less than the last couple of days. There's been almost no incidents of looting tonight reported in New York City.
But the night is still young, Don, too. So, it's a fluid situation, we just urge people. It's been a long day. We kind of had this message. The curfew is in place, it's been a long day. We're reminding people of that. People are starting to go in larger numbers now. And, you know, we'll move from here.
LEMON: There are several incidents of the NYPD, you know, conduct caught on tape being investigated. There's an NYPD SUV plowing through crowd of protesters on Saturday. Governor Cuomo pointed out a video of an officer pulling a protestor's mask down and pepper spray them.
We've seen reports of officers roughing up reporters, also the video obtained by gaffe -- I'm showing an officer seemingly draw a gun amid protesters. I'm sure you're working on these incidents. Can you update us on what you're doing?
[22:19:56]
SHEA: Yes. Well, I don't want to take too much of your time. I could give you an update verbatim on it, everyone intimately.
LEMON: Yes.
SHEA: All of them are being investigated by our internal affairs office. You know, I think that one of the things you talk about, is what we're seeing right now --
LEMON: Yes.
SHEA: -- is not just in Minneapolis. LEMON: Yes.
SHEA: I think that was the flashpoint and I think we all recognize what happens in any part of the country affects other parts. And this is something that whether you're talking about Eric Garner, whether you're talking back as far back as Rodney King and even before that.
This is about a systematic issue. It's about racism, it's about opportunities. And I think that on the law enforcement side, we are well aware of this on the executive side and in leadership positions about our unique opportunity here, the need to be transparent, the need to hear people's concerns.
And I think that we have a significant opportunity is to increase communication. And letting people know that, yes, we hear your concerns. Yes, we're aware of incidents. And yes, we are addressing them, and do a better job of communicating that back and forth. You may not always like the outcome of these investigations, but I think we can improve and let people know what's going on.
LEMON: I want to be transparent with you, because I'm trying to get the video into the system of you today, and so I'm asking you questions that -- until I can get that into the system. Because, again, I thought what you said today was very important.
Let me -- let me ask you then, while I have you here, until we can get that -- we have it, OK, good. So, let's play it now. Because you talked about -- I had never heard this from a major department. Minneapolis, of course, they're going through what they're going through. I think Houston did something, but I don't know -- I don't know if it was quite as strong as this.
But when I saw you today, I called up and I said, you know, I have to have the commissioner on because of these words, I thought it was very powerful. Especially coming from the largest police department in the country. Listen to this, and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEA: We stand with the Floyd family. We condemn what took place in Minneapolis. And I think it's much larger than law enforcement condemning it. Any human being with a conscious that looks at that video I think feels the same way.
So, my heart goes out to the entire Floyd family. I think this entire difficult period, it's not the first, please, Lord, it's the last. But it should be a wakeup call for this entire country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You know, we hear so much about police departments, about the blue wall of silence and on and on and on. Why did you come out with that statement today? Because I think that's very emphatic and it's not -- I think it's very damning for those officers who were charged.
SHEA: Well, I mean, anyone that knows me, Don, knows I'm going to say what I think. And that's what I think. I mean, that's from the heart. I tell you, a couple -- a couple of things I'll just highlight to you.
Other people come up to me and speak when this first happened and these are huge fans of the police. And really upset. I've had people that are police officers upset about this incident. And I'm upset about this incident.
This is -- it's about law enforcement, it's about police and that was the flashpoint. But anyone -- I believe this. Anyone that looks at that video, and isn't knocked off your feet, I don't know that you have a conscience.
I mean, that's a human being, and you know, I've been a cop a long time and I've made too many arrests to count quite frankly. And when you make an arrest you pick the person up and you begin to process.
Ben Tucker my first deputy commissioner said this today. And he's a 100 percent he's a very wise man. It can't be personal, and that's a human being, and that's something that 99.99 percent of police officers carry out their duties every day professionally across this country.
Difficult circumstances. But I don't know what to say when I saw that video, it sickened me, it turned my stomach. And that's why I said what I said. And I think I'm not alone in that. And many executives have said the same thing.
This isn't about police. This isn't about criminals. This is about seeing each other in human decency. And that's a human being. And it was just a -- disregard for human life.
LEMON: I've been trying to get you on for a long time. And so, I'm going to -- producers, if you will, I just want to ask one more question. Because you know the -- you know the governor, the governor is he's not happy with what happened the other night. Right? And I'm wondering if the governor said something about the mayor and the department. If you change your tactics for that.
But I think a more important question, similar, but more important is, seeing what happened on that videotape. And how you feel about what happened, is that causing you to rethink some things with your own department?
[22:25:08]
Is that going to cause change within probably departments around the country. But especially within the NYPD who has had their share of problems. But are you going to change things? Is this going to be a catalyst for change, some change at all or at least some reflection within the NYPD?
SHEA: The answer is absolutely yes. I mean, I'll just -- I'll be quick. We've changed a lot already. We've really reinforced and got into a precision model away from whether you're talking stops, summons, de-escalation, arrests.
Nearly every indicator Don, in the last six years and reduced crime, we're one of the lowest incarcerated cities, large cities in America. I mean, there's so much good that has been done. What frustrates the hell out of us as law enforcement professionals is, you build trust very slowly. And you lose it very quick with one bad incident.
And I saw two incidents recently. One was right here in New York City on the lower east side. It was about a month ago. An arrest that was made in (Inaudible), you know -- the common denominator -- how you treat people and how you treat people after they're in handcuffs. Is it going to cause me to change things?
I've already had conversations with our training bureau. Our first deputy commissioner Ben Tucker. We already have prohibitions against warning officers about positional asphyxiation. Allowing them space to breathe. Banning choke holds, things of that nature.
But I see somebody kneeling on somebody that's handcuffed laying on the ground, I'll be -- it turns my stomach. So, I think we got to really have to do a little more and change that culture. Yes, there will be changes in policies coming out of this internally.
And when you talk about everything that we've tried to do, the frustrating part is how something like this can set us back. And we all -- we all must come together here.
Clergy, local elected officials. Coming out like this, and speaking. Taking the tough questions, Don. I think -- I welcome the tough questions. And we all have to get through this. If this doesn't show us that we have to do better as a society, this is the time to come together. We'll get through these protests. We'll push down on the violence. The destruction of property. But there's a tremendous opportunity here.
LEMON: The -- someone from Eric Garner's family said today, I know you weren't commissioner then, but they said what I heard from Commissioner Shea today, our family would love -- have loved to have heard that. Do you have a message for the Garner family?
SHEA: Well, yes, I wasn't the police commissioner. But I was a senior executive in the police department. That is something any time you have a loss of life, it's wrong. We have to look at situations and how we can make it better. How we can change our policies and procedures.
So, to the Garner family, the same message that I would say today. When you take a look at police action that results in the loss of life, it's the last thing that we ever want and our heart goes out to the Garner family. And I've spoken to the Garner family as police commissioner, several members of the family in private sit-downs, and I've said these things to them face to face. It's the last thing that we would ever want to see. And my sincere condolences again.
LEMON: Commissioner, you're always welcome here. I'm so glad I finally got you on, and please come back and take the tough questions and put it to us as well.
SHEA: yes.
LEMON: The media as to how we cover. We like to be fair here but we like to be honest. And I appreciate your candor. Thank you so much for appearing this evening.
SHEA: Don, thank you very much. God bless you.
LEMON: Thank you, You, as well. And be safe.
All four fired officers on the scene of George Floyd's death they are in custody tonight on a million dollars bail each. The attorney for the Floyd family reacts. Ben Crump here, next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Here's our breaking news tonight, and it is a major development. All four of the fired Minneapolis police officers involved in George Floyd's killing now facing charges. Ex-officer Derek Chauvin, who presses knee into George Floyd's neck facing the more serious, upgraded count of second degree murder. Let's speak with Ben Crump, he is an attorney for George Floyd's family. He joins us now live. Ben, thank you so much.
Listen, we saw the emotional interview today that -- with the brother, just really powerful. How is the family reacting to the news of all four of these officers being charged?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR THE FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD: They're relieved, Don. It's bittersweet for them, because as you know, tomorrow they'll be memorializing George Floyd here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. But Attorney Keith Ellison, they are very grateful that the Attorney General moved expeditiously and finally, Don Lemon, after so much effort on everybody's part, your part, the public part, you finally have these murderers being arrested and brought to a court of law and to answer for their crimes. LEMON: Why do you think Chauvin's charges -- his charge, I should say
was upgraded to second degree from third degree murder. And is there any concern from the family that that could make it harder to obtain a conviction?
CRUMP: You know, actually, I thought Attorney General Ellison said it very appropriately, Don Lemon. He said, often times when black people are killed by police officers, the police are undercharged while there's a big disparity when black people are accused of crimes, they are overcharged.
[22:35:12]
And so I believe second degree -- I really believe first degree -- the family really believes first degree murder should have been the charge. But we believe based on the evidence from the audio -- from the police bodycam where the one officer said he doesn't have a pulse. Should we turn him on his side? Officer Chauvin said no. Let's keep him in this position and while he was pulseless for three minutes, he kept his knee on his neck. I believe that is intent, Don.
LEMON: Well, Benjamin Crump, thank you so much. As we know, the first memorial service is going to be held tomorrow. We will be watching and we thank you for appearing.
CRUMP: Thank you for everything that you've been doing.
LEMON: Thank you.
The president's first defense secretary tearing into his former boss. What James Mattis is saying, why he is speaking out now after making a point not to criticize President Trump in the past.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:40:00]
LEMON: We are back and you're looking at live pictures of Washington, D.C., a crowd of protesters there in front of the camera at 10:39 Eastern Time here on the East Coast as we watch cities all across this country. President Trump is responding to his former Defense Secretary James Mattis after the retired four star marine general wrote a statement tearing into the president today. And I just want to read what Mattis said again. Because it is so scathing.
Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people, does not, even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him. Drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society.
Let's discuss now. CNN's White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins is here, as well as CNN military analyst, Retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Good evening to both of you. Kaitlan, the president is now responding, what's he saying? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don. It only
took him about three hours to respond on Twitter. He said that President Barack Obama had fired him. He similarly fired him, and then he is disputing how General Mattis got his nickname. It's kind of confusingly, because we know based on reported accounts that Mattis had these nicknames, mad dog Mattis. Actually a nickname that troops called him behind his back that he said in the Senate hearing he did not like.
And another one, but really what you're seeing from the president's tweets tonight, Don, ignores the primary criticism that Mattis made in his statement today which was withering and blunt, and brutal. And really unlike something that we've seen from a defense secretary who served under a president who is still in office coming out with a statement like this, saying that they made a mockery of the constitution and what happened just in recent days with the clearing of the protesters aggressively, out of Lafayette Park.
He said, he believe was a violation on behalf of the troops of their fellow citizen's constitutional rights. It was a scathing statement. And you didn't see the president address that in his tweets, per say. And you know, it's really hard for the president to criticize Mattis, because he is someone who's well respected by Democrats, by Republicans, he is revered inside the Pentagon. And so, really this -- many officials predicted this is going to be a criticism for President Trump that stings.
LEMON: General Hertling. Let's read what Mattis went on to say. When I joined the military some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens, much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief with military leadership standing alongside.
I mean, Mattis is also taking a shot at the defense secretary Mark Esper, Joint Chief of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley. He sounds disgusted by what he saw.
MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST, RETIRED ARMY FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL: It's pretty obvious to me that that letter's been building for a while. I've read over that several times. It's fascinating, because you can feel (inaudible) by reading the line. And it's also not just the promotion of a moment. But it's something that is been boiling. It's also based on Secretary Mattis, former General Mattis that has a lifetime of learning (inaudible). He knows what the U.S. military system in terms of how he trains --
(BAD AUDIO)
LEMON: Please stand by. General, we're having audio issues and it's tough to follow along. I'm not sure -- can we get that fixed? Is that possible. I'm going to ask -- come back and ask you that question. But I'm going to go to Kaitlan, real quick. Do we want to go to Kaitlan and ask her questions while trying to get him back, or we want to move on? OK. We're out of time, sorry Kaitlan. General Hertling, I'm sorry
about the audio issue. Kaitlan, thank you very much. We appreciate it. We are going to take a quick break, we'll be right back.
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[22:45:00]
LEMON: NFL superstar Drew Brees is getting a lot of criticism for comments he made about Colin Kaepernick's kneeling protest. Here's what he told Yahoo's finance earlier today.
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DREW BREES, NFL SUPERSTAR: I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country. Let me just tell you what I see, or what I feel when the national anthem is played and when I look at the flag of the United States. I envision my two grandfathers who fought for this country during World War II. One in the army and one in the Marine Corps both risking their lives to protect our country. And to try to make our country and this world a better place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Racist comments outraged players around the league, but it was basketball superstar LeBron James who may have said it best. Wow, man, he says, is it still surprising at this point? Sure isn't? You literally still don't understand why Kap was kneeling on one knee, has absolutely nothing to do with the disrespect of flag and our soldiers, men and women who keep our land free.
Joining me now is Benjamin Watson, a former NFL player who played with Brees. Benjamin, thank you so much, you and Drew Brees used to be teammates for the Saints. What do you think about his comments tonight?
BENJAMIN WATSON, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Well, obviously there's a huge reaction to them. And rightly so. I've known Drew's stance, I think he said it many times before, there was no surprise there, I think that the tone and right now during this time, he definitely could have answered that question much better, in a much more compassionate way.
[22:50:08]
Look, I think the beauty of this whole thing of America is that we can have different stances. But the problem there was that he was misunderstanding what the actual protests are about. He is misunderstanding the reasons behind it. And so, I know he is had conversations. I know guys on the team. I know they've talked about it. I know they've mending that disagreement, but especially this week, Don, I think it was tough to hear.
LEMON: It was -- I'm not sure if it was surprising considering some of the stances that Drew Brees has taken in recent years. Listen, you know I'm a Louisiana native. My family, die hard Saints fans, every single person in my family is disappointed by Drew Brees' comments today and thinks that he is completely out of touch with what's happening and cannot believe that he is falling for the talking points of President Trump who is comparing this to disrespect for the flag when it has nothing to do with the flag.
WATSON: I wouldn't say exactly that. I don't know his relationship with the president to say that. I do know --
LEMON: I'm saying he is falling for the talking points. I'm not saying directly, but those talking points, that is the misunderstanding in this country that by kneeling -- by peacefully kneeling, respectfully kneeling and taking a stance on something has nothing to do with the flag.
It is -- what Colin Kaepernick was trying to point out played out on -- is playing out on our televisions right now. And I have to say that Drew Brees attempted to clarify his comments later telling ESPN, he says, that I love and respect my teammates and I stand right there with them in regards to fighting for racial equality and justice. I also stand with my grandfathers who risk their lives for the country and countess other military men and women who did it on a daily basis.
WATSON: Yes.
LEMON: Again, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. He is not understanding that. Can he -- I don't understand what the disconnect here. Can he have this both ways?
WATSON: Well, I think right now and even before now there's going to be conversations had in that locker room as you've seen publicly, and also privately. There's those conversations. My biggest issue though is I don't want to get away from -- today was a tough day. Today was a tough day, Don.
I sat and watched as Benjamin Crump talk about each person who had been killed at the hands of police. Today was a day of tears, by the time I heard these comments I didn't have any more tears left. I was emotionally spent.
And so, my hope though is that we turn this whole situation --we can't leave from this place unchanged. We can't leave from these week --from this last three weeks, this last month unchanged as Americans without addressing policing, without addressing policy, and without addressing peoples' hearts.
LEMON: So, players all over the league called him out, even his own teammates. Malcolm Jenkins had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALCOLM JENKINS, NFL SUPERSTAR: Drew, unfortunately -- unfortunately there's somebody who doesn't understand their privilege.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I mean, it's pretty rare for guys to speak out like that about their own quarterback. What's changed?
WATSON: I think this week has changed. This is a seminal moment. This week has been emotional for all of us in a way that I don't think we've seen in quite some time. And it's not just about George Floyd, Don. It's about every other person before him. And every time something like this happens, there is a renewed trauma.
And so, what you're seeing from America is an outcry. What you're seeing from black America is an outcry. And people just want to be heard. Now, we can sit here and we can talk back and forth about should people loot, should people do that, but we all agree that there are certain things you shouldn't do when it comes to protesting.
But what we can agree on is that something has to be done. We're tired. We're frustrated. We're sad. People are crying. I'm having conversations with my children. People are talking about this on social media. This hasn't gone away. We're sitting here in 2020. There's a pain that has to be addressed, and again I'll say it again. We'll be foolish if we leave from this place unchanged.
LEMON: I want to bring in Donte Stallworth, former NFL player as well. Donte, a little bit of a technical issue. Deonte, you there?
DONTE STALLWORTH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I'm here.
LEMON: Thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. Listen. I just want to -- we've been talking about the response coming from Drew Brees' comments. This is Aaron Rodgers, right? Aaron Rodgers a white player and he says, a few years ago we were criticized for locking arms in solidarity before the game.
[22:55:03]
It has never been about an anthem or a flag, not then, not now. Listen with an open heart. Let's educate ourselves and then turn word and thought into action. #wakeupAmerica, love over fear, solidarity, liberty and justice for all, #all. So, what do you make of these comments from Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers' response?
STALLWORTH: Well, I think initially, you know, they both kind of stood their ground on both of what they were saying back in 2017 when the president was calling players sons of bitches for kneeling. Drew had his stance and he's stuck with it and so as Aaron. Aaron was one of the first ones to come out and say that the only reason Colin Kaepernick wasn't employed at the current moment, the reason why he wasn't employed was solely because of his protest, not because of his talent.
And if anyone knows how quarterback play should be played, it's Aaron Rodgers, Super Bowl quarterback. So, if anyone had any doubts prior to that because they didn't want to listen to anyone else, but if you are a white quarterback say it then maybe it'll become true. But I will say one thing really quick about Aaron Rodgers, not to veer too far off.
But Aaron Rodgers also spoke up -- I forgot exactly when it was. But he spoke up for Muslims. Someone during the national anthem someone said something about Muslims when it was quiet in the stadium. And he yelled at them and he rebuked them after the game. They were coming off a loss and that was the only thing he wanted to talk about was the disrespect towards Muslims. And the xenophobia in this country.
So, Aaron Rodgers has been outspoken before. Drew, I like him. I played a little bit with him. I love him. I think he is a good dude, a good father, and a family guy. Obviously a great NFL player. But he is totally wrong on this. And if he actually listens to what the players have been saying from the very beginning, the players in his locker room, the players that he sees every day, the guys he hangs out with, the guys that he considers family and brothers, if he actually listens to them, he'll get to understand the real true reasons why.
Not listen to the propaganda that has been propped up by the conservatives, the far --the right-wing media about this being anything about the anthem, about this being anything about the flag or even more despicable, about it being about the troops.
LEMON: Yes, because what Aaron Rodgers should know --I'm sorry, not Aaron Rodgers. What Drew Brees should know -- huge fan of his playing. I have been for years. This has been very disappointing. Is that the same -- that is what his grandparents and relatives were fighting for? That's part of freedom of expression is part of the constitution, and those people, the people who fought in those wars, it was for the constitution.
And I just -- I don't understand Drew Brees who has been -- who has done so many good things in the past especially with the money that he donated during covid-19 and so on and so forth. I don't understand what he is not getting about this particular issue and perhaps he can be educated on it.
Donte, since we got you later, this kneeling protest had been died -- had died down for the last year or so. But what we've seen around the country these last two weeks, do you think it's going to get -- you know, the season is coming back up. Is it going to start back up when the season starts because you know there's the rule now, right?
They established that rule last season where players have to stand during the national anthem. I don't know if they have to be on the field, but they have to stand. This is going to become an issue, and what do you think's going to happen?
STALLWORTH: It very well could become an issue. I think this is obviously something that has galvanized player of all colors, of all religions. Joe Borough spoke out who hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. But again, this is not just an NFL issue. This is not at all a political issue. This is a human rights issue. And that is why you see people all around the world. All around the world, Don, not just in this country from Seattle to New York, but all around the world from Berlin, to Tokyo, to Amsterdam, to Oslo, to Denmark, Copenhagen, right?
This is a movement that people are standing in solidarity with African-American people in this country who have been subjugated for 1.5 centuries and had been subjugated through the criminal justice system, housing, and a number of other things that have suppressed the African-American community since Jim Crow.
