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Don Lemon Tonight

Never Too Late for NFL to Change Course; Curfew Violators Arrested by NYPD; John Kelly Agrees with General Mattis' Criticism of President Trump; What Today's Protesters Can Learn From Robert F. Kennedy on Justice, Race, and Inclusion; A Woman was Hit in the Head by Foam Bullet at Fort Lauderdale Protest; "Black-ish" Actress Jenifer Lewis Speaks Out: "Take Your Knee Off Our Necks". Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired June 05, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There has been as much honest conversation about the topic of race in this country in the last week as has taken place in my living memory. And it is a conversation that is not exclusive to one community but the whole country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: And that conversation includes the NFL. Tonight, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell admitting the league was wrong for not listening to players peacefully protesting racism. He says the NFL believes black lives matter. Something we haven't heard President Trump said. In an event tonight touting job numbers the president brought up George Floyd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hopefully George is looking downright now and saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country. It's a great day for him. It's a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A great day in terms of equality? What is he talking about? The president was also asked about systemic racism. Here's how he handled that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(OFF-MIC)

TRUMP: I'd like to sign this bill. This is a very difficult day. And by the way, what's happened to our country and what you now see has been happening, it's the greatest thing that can happen for race relations, for the African-American community, for the Asian-American, for the Hispanic-American community. For women and for everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your plan?

TRUMP: Because our country is so strong. And that's what my plan is. We're going to have the strongest economy in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Strong economy is one thing. It's important. It doesn't solve the problem of racism.

But first, let's get to Shimon Prokupecz in New York with protestors. Shimon, what are you seeing?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes. So, Don, as you can see behind me a lot of police officers just standing by. Waiting to respond. And we haven't seen the same type of activity that we have seen for the last several nights, you know, what a difference a few days make.

But just hours ago, just as the curfew ended around 8.30. the NYPD moved in on a group of protestors who are marching, peacefully marching on the upper east side. And at around 8.30 they just decided that it was time to end the march.

And so, the NYPD they made announcements they told people that if they weren't going to be leaving, they were going to be arrested. And so, they arrested 18 people. They were marching on the upper east side. They wound up being stopped by the police at 81st and Park Avenue.

What's different about tonight, Don, was that the police moved in earlier on this group in Manhattan. We saw other groups marching last night until about 10 o'clock. The night before it was until 9.30.

So, for whatever reason, tonight, the NYPD, Don, decided they were going to move in earlier and they arrested and stopped those demonstrators around 8.30. And that was the last group really demonstrating passed the curfew.

Now for tomorrow there are a lot of events planned. More protests, more demonstrations across the city for Saturday, Don.

LEMON: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Now I want to bring in CNN White House correspondent John Harwood, and former NFL player Donte Stallworth. Good evening to both. John, president seems to be equating a good jobs report with racial healing and tweeting about no kneeling, when the NFL is now admitting that they should have listened to their players about systemic racism. He just doesn't get it, does he?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, Don, Donald Trump is reverting to two things that are comfortable territory for him. One is talking about money. That's the economy. And he was exuberant over the jobs report today. And the other is racial conflict and division. That's been shot through his political career. To some extent through his life before he was in politics.

He has a model for his approach. And that's Richard Nixon. He uses the same phrases, law and order, the silent majority. Richard Nixon got himself elected in 1968 and then again in 1972.

The problem is twofold. First of all, when Richard Nixon got elected in 1968, he was not the incumbent. He was running against a party that was presiding over disorder and chaos. Now Donald Trump is presiding over it. So, it doesn't work well that way.

[23:04:53]

Second problem is, it's not 1968 anymore. The country has changed enormously. Political attitudes changed slowly but they do change. And we saw that today with Roger Goodell and the NFL. We've seen that from leaders of the U.S. military. And the president is on the wrong side of those changes.

LEMON: And speaking of Roger Goodell, let's play that video. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER GOODELL, COMMISSIONER, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE: We, at the National Football League, condemn racism and the systematic oppression of black people.

We, the National Football League, admit we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest.

We, at the National Football League, believe black lives matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: How significant is this reversal from Goodell, Donte?

DONTE STALLWORTH, FORMER NFL PLAYER: I think it's a decent first step. But what a lot of people have said all day since this video has come out is Roger Goodell should have mentioned Colin Kaepernick' name, Colin Kaepernick by name. And they haven't done that.

And I think that is the thing that a lot of people still don't trust the NFL's words because their actions have shown and proven otherwise that they do support or that they don't support the NFL players. Even though they did start the players coalition or helped to start and push the player's coalition. I was very pleased to see a lot of young NFL stars get together and say, you know what, this is our league. This is our league.

The league is three quarters -- three-fourths black players and I'm glad that these guys got together and decided to wield their powers in ways that they necessarily haven't done before. Because as you saw immediately Roger Goodell came out with that video and said what he said. He said he held to the player's demands of what they wanted to hear and he said it. It's a decent first step but those steps now need to be followed

through with action, with concrete action.

LEMON: John, we saw some top ranked military turn on Trump this week. Now the NFL. Do you think people are realizing that his moment is more powerful than their fear of him? That this moment, I should say, is more powerful than their fear of him?

HARWOOD: Yes. And I think this moment has been exceptionally powerful and for the U.S. military there are couple of aspects too. One is the way they were used to deploy force against Americans in ways that made major military leaders uncomfortable.

But the backdrop for that is, the U.S. military, Don, is one of the most successfully integrated major institutions in the country. It's more diverse than the country as a whole. U.S. military does not fear diversity. In fact, it needs diversity.

It strikes me that the National Football League is also a pretty successfully integrated major institution in the American life and I've got to say maybe Donte can explain it to me, I have been astounded that it has taken the NFL so long to move to this position. Astounded that for four years, Colin Kaepernick for simply kneeling in peaceful protest was blackballed by every team in the league. I don't get it.

But in any case, Roger Goodell has clearly felt the heat of this moment and adapted. And it is those two defections from the president's side, the U.S. military and the National Football League pretty significant in this reelection year.

LEMON: Can you explain that, Donte, what he's talking about and the pressure and all of that? This one from the football league.

STALLWORTH: Yes. I think initially you have --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And the players.

STALLWORTH: Yes. Well, you have to look at the honest truth. And that honest truth is that, a lot of the owners support Donald Trump. A lot of the owners have given him money for his reelection campaign. They've given him money for his inauguration.

So, until we can get passed that, then the conversation of, you know, why the NFL -- why the NFL is just now coming out after years of seeing Colin Kaepernick but players all over -- all over the league kneeling and this is really become an international issue. Because as everyone else in the world understands this is a human rights issue. This is not a political left and right issue. Conservative liberal. This is a human rights issue. And it needs to be dealt with accordingly.

LEMON: Thank you so much. I appreciate both of you, gentlemen. See you soon. Now I want to go to CNN correspondent Kate Bennett. Kate, you know, you have this new reporting that the West Wing is frustrated with the first lady's response to the protests over George Floyd's death. What can you tell us about that?

KATE BENNETH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think as usual the first lady is somewhat out of step on her messaging and this time really there's quite a big difference when -- you know, when the President Trump was talking to the governors on that call calling them weak, saying they looked like jerks wanting to dominate the streets.

The first lady was actually calling for peace and healing. And, you know, it didn't go unnoticed by the West Wing. They find that her opposing messaging to this law and order structure the president is putting forth is really counter intuitive.

[23:10:05]

When -- when the president tweeted about when the looting starts, the shooting starts, and it was flagged by Twitter that very morning that Twitter put a warning on his tweet. The first lady said this is a country that allows for safe protest. This is a country that needs to come together and unite. So, certainly there are frustrating moments for the president and his aides as the East Wing keeps doing their own thing.

LEMON: You know, you always say that Melania Trump doesn't do anything by accident. Do you think this is a deliberate attempt to undermine her husband?

BENNETT: You know, it's hard to say. It's certainly interesting to look at the timing and the specific messaging and when he says one thing, that makes headlines versus when she decides to speaks out. Listen, this isn't the first lady who is doing a ton of heavy lifting on this really important, you know, thing that's happening in our nation.

She's not handing out water bottles, you know, to people protesting in front of her house by any means. However, it is interesting that she's chosen these moments to really contradict the harsh and the brass and the real mean streak that's coming out of the West Wing with language that does feel in a certain way that it's purposefully opposed to what the president is saying.

LEMON: All right. Kate Bennett, thank you so much. I appreciate it. We'll bring in now former White House communications director, Mr. Anthony Scaramucci. Earlier today he interviewed the former White House chief of staff John Kelly. Nice job, sir. How are you doing?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good to see you, Don.

LEMON: Good to see you.

SCARAMUCCI: Good. LEMON: So, let's talk about your interview. But, you know, you just -- you just thanked Drew Brees on Twitter for disagreeing with Trump and being a role model for others to see his sort of callousness for what it is. That's huge. Wow.

SCARAMUCCI: I sank him or I praised him. I mean, what do you mean? I mean, I think it's awesome that he's doing that. I mean, at the end of the day you need people like him, Don, in the world to show the light to other people. You know, the problem is the president is a tribal leader and he's trying to split the country.

He's, you know -- the first name of the country is united. He's trying to disunite the country and split it. And so, he wants people like Drew Brees and the NFL to help him do that. And I think they've capitulated. Now they don't want to do that and I think it's wonderful.

LEMON: You asked General Kelly about the former Defense Secretary James Mattis' jaw dropping statement, essentially saying that Trump is dividing the country. Violating the Constitution. And isn't mature enough to lead. Kelly agreed. I mean, that is a big teal coming from the president's former chief of staff, Anthony.

SCARAMUCCI: Yes. Well, listen, I mean, if you saw the interview, I mean, it was very straightforward. I don't -- I don't necessarily think that the general was trying to break news as much as he was just trying to express his patriotic feeling about the country and also trying to explain to people that the American military holds the Constitution sacred to its heart and they take an oath every time they're promoted to that Constitution.

And I think the point that him and General Mattis, Admiral McRaven, these great men in our country are making is that the institution of the Constitution and the great institutions of the United States are more important than one man. And so, the notion that our military or National Guard would be used and we're parsing between smoke canisters or tear gas to clear the way for a photo-op I think --

LEMON: Wow.

SCARAMUCCI: -- it was a real low point in the institution of the presidency. And so, I think -- I think that was a very important statement for him. But it was a very predictable statement because if you ask all of them and they came out of the apolitical shell, Don, I don't think there's very, very many of those great men that would agree with what the president did.

LEMON: I want to get to that interview that you did. I want to play some of that moment from that interview. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I think we need to look harder at who we elect. I think we should start all of us regardless of what our views are in politics. I think we should look at people that are running for office and put them through the filter. Are they -- what is their character like? What is their -- what are their ethics? Are they willing, if they're elected, to represent all of their constituents not just the base? But all of their constituents. And then look at the politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I think maybe that was my favorite thing that he said the entire interview. I mean, General Kelly basically went there. Why does it seem that he is still unwilling to be 100 percent frank though about President Trump?

SCARAMUCCI: I think it's a very tough spot. He worked for the president. You know, listen, it's a tough spot for me. I got -- I got fired after 11 days. I thank General Kelly actually for saving my marriage for doing that for me.

[23:15:00]

But, you know, listen, I got fired. I tried to stay loyal to the president. You are trying to help the country. You're a patriot. For two years I tried to stay loyal to the president and he's done very crazy things. From separating women from the children in the immigration story to now disavowing our intelligence agencies, to asking our congresswomen to go back to the countries that they originally came from.

You know the list. I know the list. And now, we're at this great moment where he would really like to divide the country and he'd like to focus on a certain base of people trying to gin up that base, get them to turn out so that he can win reelection.

LEMON: Got it.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: And I think it's disgusting to see --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I have -- I've got limited time. I've got limited time and I want to get another part of your interview.

SCARAMUCCI: All right. Go ahead.

LEMON: Because I think -- I think it deserves a lot of attention here.

SCARAMUCCI: All right. Go ahead.

LEMON: So, the president likes to call himself a stable genius. You asked about Kelly about that assessment. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCARAMUCCI: Is the president a stable genius, sir? Is he a very stable genius? KELLY: He's what's a genius? I don't know what that is. I don't think

I should comment on -- I'm not, you know, not qualified to comment on stable or unstable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I mean, that was a very long and telling pause, Anthony. He won't even say if the man he served is stable or unstable.

SCARAMUCCI: What's he going to do? You know he's unstable. The guy is unstable. He swore an oath to the Constitution, the general did. For 40 years he needed to be apolitical in the United States Marine Corps. And so, you're not going to break out of your shell in two minutes on a SALT talk, Don. It's just not going to happen.

Although I did ask him that question at the SALT conference a year ago in Las Vegas and he had a more funny quip. You know, he said I don't think he's stable or a genius. It was funny, everyone laughed. But I guess it's uncomfortable because he is disavowing the president. He's agreeing with his great friend General Mattis and he's trying to be a balanced and fair guy.

You know, let me tell you something. Over the last year, I've learned a lot about General Kelly. I have an enormous amount of respect for him. Forty years in the marine corps. He's a gold star family member. And he's a brilliant guy, he's a very well-read guy. And I wouldn't mistake that cautiousness for anything other than the fact that he's at 40 years in the marine corps and wants to stay true to that apolitical nature.

LEMON: I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this interview. Nice job, Anthony Scaramucci. Thank you so much.

SCARAMUCCI: Hey, good to be here, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: Absolutely.

A week that began with peaceful protestors gassed so the president can have a photo-op ends with him having lost the support of some of his former military top brass and the NFL. What will the impact be with election day just five months away?

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Thousands of protesters taking to the streets for the 11th night in a row after George Floyd was killed in police custody.

Let's discuss now. David Gergen is here. He was a presidential adviser to Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Clinton. And Astead Herndon, he is a national political reporter for the New York Times. Good evening to both of you. Thank you so much.

Astead, massive demonstrations all week. Huge protests are planned this weekend for D.C., New York, L.A., Atlanta, Chicago, and Florida. Give us the first draft of history for this week.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think this is another episode of what has been long arc of activism that tries to place the -- place into context what we know is a pandemic of violence from police onto black Americans. And I think that has a long arc through history that certainly reignited in terms of black lives matter and after Ferguson. But that continued on through the Trump era.

This is going to last this question of systemic and ongoing racial justice. And what protestors are pushing for is not a singular response or a singular policy but they're kind of reshaping and rethinking of American political and economic power that allows people for there not to be another viral video. For there not to be another hash tag of a name that we don't know already.

What we also seeing is a president who has not responded to that moment with the kind of crisis leadership that we've come to expect.

LEMON: You know, David, we saw incredibly dramatic events unfold this week. And look at Monday. The president's administration tear gassed peaceful protestors outside the White House. He did it so that so- called -- that he could have -- so he can have a photo-op. Will that day go down as the most reprehensible and undemocratic days in his presidential history?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it will be one of the most reprehensible and one of the dumbest days. You know, he has given the opposition so many, so many video clips now that are memorable. That I think our history if it were written today would be quite harsh about the president.

We've -- we've never seen anything like this from one sense, Don. And that we have crisis of all merged into each other. We have the pandemic crisis. We have the jobs crisis, and we have a moral crisis over racial justice.

And of those three, in my judgments the president has botched two of them. He botched the pandemic. You know, we have this studies out now had he moved earlier, if the administration paid more attention about 35,000 people might have not have perished. And he's botching this whole question over racial justice. That dumb photo-op, you know.

And so, the result of all of this is he's politicized the pandemic and he's militarized the racial justice question. And I think that speaks very ill of him. And as I say I think if the historians were to write today, they would condemn.

[23:24:56]

The historians may look back upon this as a turning point. Certainly, the dam started to break when these generals came out against the president as they did. And we saw the NFL movement today. The dam is breaking against him. Whether it will be a turning point for voters is still up in the air, Don.

We have to -- Democrats should not be complacent. LEMON: Yes.

GERGEN: They are only five or six points ahead. A lot can change. Especially if the economy comes barreling back.

LEMON: Yes. Danny, if we can please put that photo back up. I mean, that photo is so ridiculous and so embarrassing. I mean, look at that. It's just -- it's laughable. It's just -- anyway.

Astead, you know, the president today reiterated the need to, quote, "dominate and -- any violent protestors" which he did on that day when he took that picture. But he totally ignores -- for that photo-op -- he totally ignores the issue that everyone else is talking about. And that is the systemic racism. That systemic racism and how law enforcement treats black people. Why can't he address the real issue?

HERNDON: You know, there are things that President Trump has changed on, has flip-flopped positions on throughout his political life. But this not really one of those things. He had been fairly consistent in terms of encouraging police officers and law enforcement to be rough, to dominate without care about civil rights or brutality complaints.

He famously encouraged that in the campaign stop. But he's also has really shown no interest in terms of looking at the question of systemic racism by itself. You know. I'm thinking of today when reporters pushed him on what he would do for a plan about systemic racism. And he said we're going to have a good economy.

Well, you know, the campaign's position is that the economy was doing well and fine before the COVID crisis. And certainly, these issues were persisting beyond them. This is an issue that requires a very specific look at addressing inequities and racial and economic inequities. And that is not something that the administration has shown a consistent willingness to do or that President Trump has shown interest in throughout his public life.

LEMON: That's got to be the last word. David, quickly, if you can, I know you want to get in.

GERGEN: Yes. Listen, he's from a different generation. He doesn't understand how culture has changed. Thirty years old and younger more than half that population now are people of color. The president doesn't understand that politics has changed dramatically. The culture is changing, thank goodness.

LEMON: Yes. I appreciate both of you appearing tonight. And thank you for your comments and your words of wisdom. Thank you so much.

On this day 1968, Robert F. Kennedy made his last speech. And his words on division and violence in our society still ring true. His daughter Kerry Kennedy is here to talk about this moment in history and the lessons from her father.

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