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Don Lemon Tonight

Military Officials Open To Renaming U.S. Bases; Floyd's Family Wants To Have Change In America; Former Police Officer Out In Jail; President Trump Eager To Have Rallies Amid A Pandemic; Harvard Doctor Projects Another 100,000 People In The United States Will Die From Coronavirus By September; Some Members Of The National Guard Speak Out About Their Role In The Response To Protests Over George Floyd's Killing. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired June 10, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: But let me ask you -- let me ask you.

JOHN RIDLEY, OSCAR-WINNING SCREENWRITER: Yes.

LEMON: you don't think that -- you don't think that it would back fire in a way because more people -- it's at top of Amazon's list, right, the bestseller -- it's a best sales chart for TV and movies. More people are going to end up seeing it without the context.

RIDLEY: More people are going to be seeing it because they know that the context is wrong. So, look, don, I can't -- we could put -- you pick a film that is more depthful about that era before or after it. You know there are individuals who don't have that capacity to absorb that.

LEMON: Yes.

RIDLEY: Whether it's about slavery, whether it's about any of the horrors of history.

LEMON: Yes.

RIDLEY: But to ignore that, to not force people to try to reconcile what they believe with reality --

LEMON: OK.

RIDLEY: Again, I know you're playing devil's advocate, but what is the objective, to do nothing?

LEMON: Yes.

RIDLEY: You know, the other side of it is to do nothing. So, yes, people are grabbing it, they're buying it. People have bought it since, you know, it was, I think it was first available in home video around Saturday night --

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Yes. That and the "Wizard of Oz" are two of like the most

popular movies ever. Listen, I have one more question for you because I have to go. It's the top of the hour and I need to --

RIDLEY: Absolutely.

LEMON: But, listen, one of my -- actually, she was turned down -- actually, this role was supposed to be for her and then she has got into this argument, this whole thing with Warner. I'm talking about Betty Davis.

I love Betty Davis, right? And Jezebel is like "Gone with The Wind." I love the movie but I'm uncomfortable watching it sometimes. But for the -- I watch the acting and I'm like, man, she is brilliant. This actor is brilliant. This actor is brilliant. And the same brilliance was Hattie McDaniel.

RIDLEY: Yes.

LEMON: She won an Oscar for her performance, the first black woman to do so. If this -- if that goes away, and I'm not suggesting that you're saying that, you don't get to see her brilliant performance and that legacy -- does it diminish that legacy?

RIDLEY: My wife said to me, Don, Hollywood and the world have better ways to honor Hattie McDaniel than just this. When people understand that Hattie McDaniel could barely get into the Oscars when she couldn't sit the table --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: She couldn't get in the room. She couldn't sit in the same room.

RIDLEY: -- with her co-workers.

LEMON: Yes.

RIDLEY: When the majority of her roles after that, if she was a great actress, and I agree with you. Why wasn't she offered other roles, better roles, more depthful roles, rather than the 75 percent of her roles point Mammy. What was the name of her character in "Gone with the Wind," Don? I don't mean to put you on the spot. The name of the character was Mammy.

LEMON: Right.

RIDLEY: She didn't even have a name. People of color have names.

LEMON: Right.

RIDLEY: People of color exist.

LEMON: Well, you -- you opened up a conversation that I think is fascinating and that's what we do here.

RIDLEY: That's what I'm here for.

LEMON: I want you to come back and I want you to continue to talk about this because you know there are people who are now, you know, art exhibits or people -- artists are being denied, and so on and so forth. That's why I said --

(CROSSTALK)

RIDLEY: Again, very quickly, Don, nobody is saying take this away.

LEMON: No, I know that.

RIDLEY: Put it in context.

LEMON: I know that.

RIDLEY: If it can't stand up to the context, it should never exist.

LEMON: Yes.

RIDLEY: You can put any of my work next to context anybody. Right? Ryan Coogler's pick a person.

LEMON: Yes.

RIDLEY: Their work stands up to the context.

LEMON: Well, listen, I appreciate your candor and I appreciate you standing up in this moment. Same thing I said to Jalen.

RIDLEY: Absolutely.

LEMON: And using your platform to do this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Please, come back.

RIDLEY: Absolutely.

LEMON: I want to continue this conversation. Thank you.

RIDLEY: Absolutely. Thank you, Don. Let's keep doing it every day.

LEMON: All right. I'll see you soon. Be safe. Be safe.

So, it is the top of the hour, just past 11 p.m. here on the East Coast. I'm Don Lemon. This is CNN TONIGHT.

After thousands of Americans took to the streets again for the 16th straight day to protest the death of George Floyd at the hands of former Minneapolis police officers, calls growing to overhaul police in the United States, including from George Floyd's brother, Philonise, who testified on Capitol Hill pleading with lawmakers to stop the pain being felt by so many African-Americans and to make changes so law enforcement is a solution and not the problem as I spoke with NYPD commissioner about moments ago.

We're also learning tonight that fired Minneapolis Police Officer Thomas Lane who charged -- who is charged with aiding and abetting in George Floyd's death has been released from jail on bond.

And as America tries to come to grips with their racist path in the aftermath of George's -- of George Floyd's killing, a major announcement from NASCAR. Banning confederate flags at all races and events. The House Speaker Nancy Pelosi calling tonight for the removal of 11 confederate statues from the Capitol, but President Trump saying he opposes removing the names of confederate commanders from nearly a dozen military bases.

Let's discuss now. CNN's White House Correspondent, Mr. John Harwood, and our National Reporter for "The New York Times," Astead Herndorn. Both are here. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it.

We've seen 16 days of mass protests, John. Americans are making it clear that systemic racism must be addressed, even NASCAR taking action. The White House won't even acknowledge that there is a problem. What is up?

[23:05:07]

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What's up is the shape of the modern Republican Party. And as you suggested, we've seen one administration official after the other, the attorney general, homeland security secretary, the national economic adviser Larry Kudlow today say they don't believe that systemic racism exists.

This is a party that depends overwhelmingly, almost exclusively on white votes, and the energy in the party is with the most racially conservative whites who don't believe that widespread discrimination is a present-day problem.

We've talked about the poll numbers. Eighty-four percent of white Republicans believe that America has done enough to extend equal rights or even too much. In that context, you've got a set of people who look at changes in the country demographically, the increasing diversity as a threat to the America that they have grown up with, that they believe is what America is.

And that affects their attitudes towards immigration. It affects their attitudes toward voting rights, and we've seen that reflected for the last several years. Saw the problems in Georgia yesterday. And it also affects their attitudes toward relations between law enforcement and the African-American community.

LEMON: Wow. And we had all of those guys today saying they don't believe it, all white men whitesplaining so that there is no systemic racism. I call it white mansplaining instead.

But listen, the president met with a group of African-American supporters at the White House today. Here's what he said. What we heard, I should say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: I am delighted, Mr. President, that you have made it a priority to solve this problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he's a natural leader.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've been nothing short of historical. We appreciate everything you've done, Mr. President. You've been amazing.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the president never mentioned police, protesters or George Floyd. Does he think that he can ignore what is happening in this country as long as he shows pictures of some black people at a table praising him?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, this has been what the president has done throughout his administration in moments of crisis, even I think back to the roundtable with Parkland. After Parkland or moments where gun control and gun violence was, coming up.

There always seems to be a moment of acknowledging the problem in a kind of rhetorical or light way, but it's rarely followed up with policy and it's rarely followed up with the type of acknowledgement and continued advocacy that folks are looking for.

Now, we have heard from this White House, as you said, from administration officials that they do not believe that the systemic racism problem exists in this country. He has rejected even symbolic changes like removing confederate statues that -- after calls and even some openness from military officials.

If he is not willing to take those basic steps then he is not going to make the inroads that even the White House thought it could do among some black voters. You can find enough black voters to come around the table and support the president. There are black conservatives that exist.

But we know that overwhelmingly this president has not only been rejected in his response by black voters, but by white Americans also, public opinion has shifted on this and he has not been able to follow along. He has not been able to do even the kind of basic unity message that even some of his Republican colleagues have.

LEMON: Yes, it's always with something like this. It's always for the photo-op, right? Get me some people who I can show that's on my side. Get the cameras in there. Get them praising me. And then move on and do nothing. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

Thousands of Americans took to the streets today for a 16th day of protest over the death of George Floyd. The protests, well, they have been largely peaceful for over a week now. But what's it like if you're watching Fox News?

Here's CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: We're going to begin tonight in Minneapolis, that's where the black lives matter riots first began almost two weeks ago.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST, FOX NEWS: In this new new normal --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: In television this is sometimes called wallpaper. Producers jazz up the screen by wallpapering it with file footage. It's a smart TV technique, but one that can be grossly misleading when the footage is out of date, and that's what's happened lately with Fox shows and President Trump's Twitter feed indulge in so-called riot porn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We stand with all the peaceful protesters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Watch how this works at Fox News. Presidential promotor Jesse Watters visited the White House and interviewed Vice President Pence about the unrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: What's been so troubling is to see the way that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Look, now here comes the wallpaper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[23:10:02]

PENCE: The anarchists and criminals and even antifa have infiltrated these protests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Terrible scenes on screen with just a little label that says May 30th. This happened more than a week before the interview aired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: To riot, to loot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Ugly pictures from New York and L.A. reflective of unrest that broke out in late May in many major cities. Looting and destruction continued until June second in some neighborhoods. But Fox has been wallpapering the screen with the videos more than a week later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Democrats allowed their neighborhoods to burn down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Watch enough Fox and you might think the fires are still being set. And looters are still wreaking havoc.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It points back to the lawlessness that we saw last week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Even when the speakers say last week, the videos imply that it's happening now. A small label is not sufficient. Cynics far from Minneapolis have seized on late May's violence for their own agendas.

Here a right-wing columnist for an Australian newspaper posts a video saying the city looks like it's a war zone. Showing video from one week earlier and ignoring the community's cleanup efforts. President Trump shared the post another three days later. That is riot porn to serve a political agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Rioting and looting all over the city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Members of the media are right to examine what went wrong in late May, but they shouldn't scare people into thinking that the past is present.

LEMON: That was CNN's -- our Chief Media Correspondent, Mr. Brian Stelter. Thank you, Brian.

The president says that he won't even consider removing confederate commanders' names from military bases, even though the army's been open to it. A descendant of Robert E. Lee responds next.

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, the president says his administration will not even consider renaming nearly a dozen of military bases bearing the name of confederate commanders. That coming after the army said that it was open to holding a bipartisan conversation about changing the names.

Here to discuss, CNN Military Analyst, Retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, Reverend Robert W. Lee, a descendant of Robert E. Lee. He's also the author of "A Sin by Any Other Name: Reckoning with Racism and the Heritage of The South."

So glad to have both of you on and eager to have this conversation. General, there are 10 military bases named after confederate leaders. Defense Secretary Esper and the army secretary, they were open to renaming them. How does it look that the president is nixing the idea? What do you think of this?

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: A couple of things come to mind, Don. I think part of the driving force behind this was the fact that both the navy and the marine corps banned the confederate flags from their bases, which was a good idea.

This topic of changing the names of these bases, this isn't the first time it was brought up. I remember this coming up about 10 years ago when I was still on active duty. At the time it was like, yes, okay, that's a small problem, let's not think about it, but I think part of what we've seen over the past two weeks is the desire to have a deeper conversation about these kinds of things.

And having been on all these bases, frankly, I never really thought about the history of them, even though I knew what it was, until recently and how it might be offending some of our African-American soldiers.

LEMON: Reverend Lee, the venation of these confederate leaders comes from an ideology called the Lost Cause. Explain what that is.

ROBERT W. LEE, ROBERT E. LEE'S DESCENDANT: Well, Don, I was steeped in the Lost Cause growing up. It's this idea even in the most progressive homes of the south that General Lee, the standard-bearer of southern heritage, was a gentle man, he was, quote, unquote, "kind to his slaves," whatever that means.

And deeper than that, it is the idea that this confederacy fought against the United States for states' rights. What the Lost Cause fails to complete in that sentence is the states' rights to enslave people. We never learned that little last bit in school, and even deeper than that, in school we're taught it's the war of northern aggression, not the Civil War, as it is properly called.

LEMON: Yes, listen, I'm -- as a son of the south, I'm surprised about how many people have a -- how many people are ignorant, really, of the -- the meaning and when those -- when those statues and monuments were erected. And even the confederate flag. They just have no idea about the real history of it.

Reverend, one more question for you. Tonight, you know, almost the same time as the president tweeted in support of these confederate names, NASCAR said it will no longer permit the display of confederate flags at their events. What does that say about NASCAR, that NASCAR is recognizing what's happening here but the president isn't?

LEE: Well, Don, I grew up in Statesville, North Carolina, just north of Charlotte where the Charlotte motor speed way is. I'm personally not the biggest fan of NASCAR, but it kind of permeates our culture in everything we do down here.

You know, I'm a pastor first, and it seems to me that it would be beneficial for this administration to act more in a pastoral capacity to our nation right now. We don't need this coming from our highest office, we need people who are willing to unite, to care, to mend the wounds that are seeping right now.

I mean, this is a painful reality for all of us. But we do have hope. We are not without hope in the sense that people like NASCAR. Agencies, institutions, people are waking up. They should have woken up a long time ago, but in all actuality, now that they're waking up, they're seeing the possibility that change brings.

[23:19:59]

LEMON: General, Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Brown becoming the first black service chief in American history after his confirmation this week. He spoke out about what he is thinking of after George Floyd's killing. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES BROWN, CHIEF OF STAFF, U.S. AIR FORCE: I'm thinking about some of the incidence and comments made without awareness by others. I'm thinking about being a captain at the, quote, "Ookla" (Ph) with my squadron and being told by other African-Americans that I wasn't black enough because I was spending more time with my squadron than with them. I'm thinking about my mentors and how rarely I had a mentor that looked like me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: General, black Americans make up a big part of the military. Is that part of why the military would be willing to just consider this?

HERTLING: Don, if you look at the history of the military, they have always been out front in many elements of social change. And I think in this particularly instance on this one, we've somewhat been behind. We've done all the right programs. We've had all the right processes. But we really haven't often looked deep into our hearts and our souls, and that's what some of the conversations have been about this week, about really opening up that conversation.

So General Brown's quotes I think are reflective of any military leader. I had one particular battalion commander that worked for me, Dana Pittard, you've him on your show a couple of times. And he really enlightened me in many ways like this about some of the comments that I never heard that he did.

And the kinds of things that a white American is not understanding. And that's why what is happening right now is opening people's eyes a little bit, and I think has been a good thing in many ways.

LEMON: I've got to go, general. Can you just real quick for me, please, please, please, what other country venerates defeated traitors with statues and bases named after them? HERTLING: None. None. I lived in Germany for 12 years, Don, and I

never saw a statue to Hitler or Teramo or to (Inaudible) or anybody else because they'd erased that part of their history because it was so evil. We need to do the same.

LEMON: Thank you both. See you soon. Be safe.

LEE: Thank you.

LEMON: I need to correct something that we had on screen headed into the last break. We had a banner that said the president wouldn't remove confederate flags from bases. It should have said confederate names from bases. So, sorry. We apologize for that.

And as we have been discussing, we're also covering a story tonight about NASCAR no longer allowing flags at their events.

Coming up, U.S. coronavirus cases near two million now, near two million as a Harvard scientist warns 100,000 more people could die by September. What you need to know next.

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: More than 112,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus and now a top doctor at Harvard predicting that an additional 100,000 people in the U.S. will die from the virus by September. One hundred thousand. That as president is announcing that he'll hold campaign rallies in Arizona and North Carolina, two states that have become coronavirus hot spots.

More on the pandemic tonight from CNN's Erica Hill.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sobering new data about coronavirus- related hospitalizations. Up in at least a dozen states since Memorial Day weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANDY COHEN, NORTH CAROLINA SECRETARY, NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: It was our highest day yet of hospitalizations. I continue to be concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: In Arizona, 79 percent of the state's ICU beds are currently in use. The director of health services asking hospitals to activate their emergency plans and reduce or suspend or elective surgeries. The overall trends alarming health officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BESSER, PRESIDENT & CEO, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: What concerns me is do we have the systems in place to ensure that a case in a community doesn't lead to a cluster, doesn't lead to an outbreak, doesn't lead to a health care system once again getting -- getting overwhelmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Across the country 19 states reporting a rise in new cases over the past week. Including Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina among the first to reopen. Much of the northeast seeing a decline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): It has to be done right and we have to stay disciplined, and the evidence is all around us what happens if we're not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: New CNN polling shows Americans are split when it comes to returning to their regular routines and whether the worst is behind us. Women are more likely than men to exercise caution. Just 38 percent say they're ready to resume those routines. And yet the country moves forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've missed it. I mean, this is the reason I live here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Miami's beaches reopened this morning. Students in Vermont and Rhode Island will be back in the classroom this fall. NASCAR fans can watch the action in person with masks and distance this weekend in Homestead, Florida.

The U.S. government says it will fund and study three experimental vaccines this summer, including one from Johnson & Johnson, set to begin human trials next month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BESSER: Even with the vaccine there may be other steps that we have to continue to take to control coronavirus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Face coverings and social distancing here to stay. As experts caution this virus is not going away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: I understand people are willing to live alongside this virus. It means that between 800 and 1,000 Americans are going to die every single day. We're going to get another 100,000 deaths by September. So that's a catastrophic cost.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [23:30:05]

HILL: Don, that sobering assessment coming on the same day that Mississippi's governor, which is one of those states seeing a rise in hospitalizations, said, I want COVID-19 to be over, too, but the data and the science is telling us otherwise.

Meantime, developments in California today, in Northern California, at Tesla's Fremont main facility there, we're learning that some employees have now tested positive for the virus. And in Southern California, in L.A. County, an announcement that as of Friday a number of industries can reopen. Among them are gyms and also music, film, and television production, Don.

LEMON: All right. Erica Hill, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Let's bring in now CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner, the director of the Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington University Hospital. Doctor, thank you.

Man, this is scary. You know, you -- many people have been warning people about this. We've been talking about it. People are letting their guard down. They are opening up too soon, on and on and on. This is what CNN's reporting is. Nineteen states are seeing a rise in coronavirus cases while hospitalizations in 12 states are up since Memorial Day weekend. Are we seeing the results of reopening now?

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION PROGRAM AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Yeah, absolutely. Look, if you remember at the beginning of April, there was a lot of fanfare about the CDC's plan for reopening the states.

It was actually a pretty well thought out plan and it called for reopening states when they saw 14 days of consecutive decline in cases and hospitals with a lot of capacity and robust testing. Yet we opened most of our states with cases still on the rise.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: And now we're seeing the chickens come home to roost, unfortunately, with cases rising through a large part of the southeast. If you take New York State and New Jersey out of the mix, cases are not dropping in the United States. And that's the -- that's really the tough truth. You know, we --

LEMON: Oh, is this because there were so many cases in the places that you mentioned? That the numbers -- that they are skewing the numbers?

REINER: Yeah, absolutely. You know, there are about 300,000 cases in New York and with New York's dramatic drop in levels of cases that skews the national numbers dramatically.

LEMON: Interesting. One hundred and twelve -- over -- I should say more than 112,000 people have died in the U.S. from coronavirus so far.

REINER: Yeah.

LEMON: Are you worried that that number will jump significantly by September? Because there was, you know, a prediction, we ended up -- if you're looking at the bottom of your screen now, another 100,000 people in the U.S. will die from coronavirus by September. Are you worried? What do you think?

REINER: Yeah. Harvard's Dr. Jah didn't do exotic math to come up with that number. All that he did was look at the fact that the mortality rate is flat now and about a thousand people are dying a day. And yeah, in a hundred days, 100,000 more people will be dead. But look at why that's the case.

We've eroded some of the things that caused us to succeed, right? Social distancing, universal mask wearing. You know, we're not testing nearly as many people as we were testing a couple of weeks ago. And we're certainly not increasing the number of people that we're testing. The virus hasn't gone away. It's not like we're looking for the second wave. The first wave isn't gone.

LEMON: Thank you, doctor. Appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure.

LEMON: The Minneapolis police chief is speaking to CNN. He says parts of policing in this country are broken and change has to happen. Plus, what he has to say about -- to the Floyd family, I should say. The interview is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, some members of the National Guard are speaking out tonight about their role in the response to protests over George Floyd's killing. One guardsman is saying this to Politico about the clearing of Lafayette Square near the White House. He says, "What I saw was absolutely wrong".

So let's discuss now. Political -- Politico White House reporter Daniel Lippman is here and CNN contributor Garrett Graff is here as well. Hi, gents. Thank you so much. This is -- wow, speaking out. This is big, Daniel.

I just want to read more from your reporting. D.C. guardsmen are saying this. "As a military officer, what I saw was more or less really f---ed up. The crowd was loud but peaceful, and at no point did I feel in danger. A lot of us are still struggling to process this, but in a lot of ways, I believe I saw civil rights being violated in order for a photo op," it says.

So many of -- many guard members that you spoke with say that they felt used. What else did they tell you?

DANIEL LIPPMAN, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, I talked to one guards member who said her own brother was in the crowd that was tear gassed and told her that he was coughing a lot. And so basically that White House line that there was no tear gas used was hogwash.

[23:39:55]

LIPPMAN: And that they told the Army, you know, General Milley, Mark Milley, that the crowd was peaceful and that this was just used for President Trump to make a point. And afterwards, everyone wanted to get rid of -- they wanted to disclaim responsibility. Everyone was blame-shifting. And so these guardsmen did not sign up to be used as political pawns, so some of them felt ashamed for their role back in the Park Police.

LEMON: So, Daniel, how does this square with the official line from the White House that the protest got violent?

LIPPMAN: Well, the guardsmen I talked to at Lafayette Square say they did not see that, and they were right on the front line or they were very close. And so there's very little evidence that this was a violent protest. And, anyway, the 7:00 p.m. curfew had not taken effect.

And so these guardsmen, they're professionals. They know what violence would look like. They've gone through training. And they just saw Americans peacefully demonstrating their First Amendment rights. They didn't want to be part of breaking up the protest.

And so that's why the Park Police and the Bureau of Prisons, which is better handled -- which is used to handling prison riots rather than Americans in the streets, they were the ones who used violence against reporters and demonstrators, tear gassed. The National guardsmen, they wanted to stay away from that.

LEMON: And we must remember, because I was on air. I watched it. I was live on with Wolf Blitzer as this was going down in "The Situation Room." and we saw. Our reporters were there. You know, Garrett, they said that they didn't see any, you know -- that it was peaceful. We could see with the live pictures from several different camera angles that it was peaceful and what happened.

We have also seen police without badges, Garrett, or identification. And you said it sends the message that police are unaccountable and untraceable. Why is that dangerous?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah. So, as Daniel said, you know, this is constitutionally protected activity. You know, people have the freedom to assemble and to petition their government for the redress of grievances. That's constitutionally protected.

And what we saw last week were numerous instances of federal officers and federal agents on the streets of D.C. policing these protests without insignia, without emblems, without badges, without nameplates.

And this is part of what makes policing these protests in D.C. so complicated, is that the D.C. police, the D.C. local metropolitan police, actually require that officers in these situations have enhanced identification for tracking and monitoring of possible abuse and misconduct.

And instead, Attorney General Barr brought in these federal prison guards and the U.S. Park Police, which is part of the Department of the Interior, to meet -- be the main policing force facing these peaceful protesters and it turned violent.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. You know, the president has repeatedly blamed Antifa for the violence. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): They're Antifa and they're radical left.

The violence and vandalism is being led by Antifa and other radical left-wing groups.

It's Antifa. It's a lot of radical left, bad people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Garrett, the administration has offered very little evidence to back up that claim. More than 50 people have been charged by the Justice Department over the unrest, but only a handful is alleged to have a connection to any extremist group.

So, police are pointing -- they're pointing their fingers everywhere, but what the president is saying has offered little proof. Is he distorting the facts here? Why is he?

GRAFF: He is absolutely distorting the facts, in part because there really isn't anything like Antifa in the way that it exists in the right-wing fever swamps where the president gets most of his information. I mean, Antifa is a largely leaderless organization, largely disorganized.

I mean, it's sort of like saying croquet players are one of the major terrorist groups in the United States right now. I mean, OK, so, who do you go out and arrest if you want to stop the croquet players of the United States?

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Thank you. And Antifa, it sounds, you know, really the name is ominous and it sounds scary, so there you go. It's a good bogeyman. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

The Minneapolis police chief is sitting down with CNN, his message to the Floyd family. That interview is next.

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[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo promised reform when he took the helm in 2017. The public supported him. It was well known, as a lieutenant, that he had sued the same department along with four others for discrimination against black officers and black residents in 2007.

Ten years later, he became chief. But now he is facing the biggest backlash the department has ever experienced, calls for its dismantling after the killing of George Floyd.

Our Sara Sidner sat down with the chief today and she asked him what it was like when he and the Floyd family met for the first time in person after talking to one another for the first time on this show.

[23:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MEDARIA ARRADONDO, CHIEF, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: It was -- it was heart- wrenching, truly. I was honored to meet them. I clearly did not wish to meet them under those circumstances. But I want to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to, first, have a conversation with them and offer my condolences.

So I thank you for that. And I'm glad that I was able to do that prior to the memorial service. But I looked them in the eye and I said that I'm sorry. And I will see to it that their brother's death is not in vain.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Did they respond to you? Did they -- how did they receive your apology?

ARRADONDO: The grace and the love that they showed. They hugged me and we hugged. And so that will also lead my reform work, my transformational culture change work. The Floyd family will lead me forward in the days ahead, in the weeks ahead, for this important work.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about Officer Chauvin. Would you say that he and the other officers received enough training? Is this about training or this is about bad policing? Officers that should not have done what they did and should not be out on the street.

ARRADONDO: I can develop the best training and the best policies in the world. But beyond that, I need officers with character. I need officers with a moral compass. I need officers with humanity. If you feel challenged or you question the training, then I want your humanity. I want that character to show up. Mr. Floyd was expecting that and should have had that, and we failed him in that.

SIDNER: What did he get instead? What did Mr. Floyd get instead?

ARRADONDO: He lost his life, when he was expecting people who took an oath to protect and serve would be there for him. And that is -- that is gut-wrenching for me to sit here before you as a chief. That can never happen again. Should never happen again.

SIDNER: Why is it so hard to get rid of, to fire bad officers?

ARRADONDO: It shouldn't be hard to get rid of officers who are not serving the public, who are committing acts of misconduct where they have forfeited their right to wear this badge.

SIDNER: But would you agree it is hard?

ARRADONDO: But there are systems in place, absolutely, that make it very difficult for me as a chief and for chiefs across this country to do just that.

SIDNER: Are police unions the entity that is making it difficult to get rid of officers who should not be on the streets?

ARRADONDO: If police unions and certainly mine here in Minneapolis, if they do not evolve, if they are not listening and the voices are screaming out, if they are not listening, the changes, substantial changes need to be made in the way that they operate. They will ultimately be contributing to the harm and not the good.

SIDNER: Do you think they've contributed to the harm in this case? You had an officer, he had 18 complaints. I know that he was only disciplined for two. But if I had 18 complaints like that, written and put down on paper, I'd be out of here.

ARRADONDO: I've been having serious conversations with union leadership over the past couple of weeks to that very same point that you're talking about. And they know where I stand. And I think that they understand and they should understand that the time is now. The time is now to do some self-reflection, to look at what their role is and how they can also impact public trust for the good or help in its erosion.

SIDNER: You sued your own department more than a decade ago for racial discrimination against officers and against citizens. Why shouldn't it be dismantled? There are still problems, clearly.

ARRADONDO: This department and its 152 years, has certainly had its issues and has been broken, and I brought attention to that a decade ago. But I didn't abandon it. And the reason why I didn't abandon it is because I believe in it. I do believe that we can be that police department that our communities look towards and trust and see as legitimate, and that we do have their best interest at heart.

SIDNER: Do you think that, right now, that legitimacy is gone?

ARRADONDO: So, what I can tell you is that it is absolutely proper to think and reimagine what policing may look like tomorrow. But as a chief of police, I have to be concerned, as well, about what does public safety look like today?

[23:54:58]

ARRADONDO: And if we are going to be here today and our communities are going to need us here today, we have to make sure that we're doing all we can to be there for them. I think that any plans or any conversations about defunding or dismantling, they have to be thoughtful.

They have to be mindful. They have to be based in fact. If it's totally driven by emotion, lives could be at stake, as well. And so we have to about this work the right way.

SIDNER: After the police statements about the union and promising to step away immediately from negotiations with the union until they can look further into the contract that would be better for the community, the union has responded, saying that it is, by law, imperative that the city, including the police chief, negotiate in good faith. Don?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Sara Sidner, thank you very much for that. We have some breaking news for you tonight. This country has now passed two million cases of coronavirus. More than 112,000 people have died. I'm Don Lemon. Our coverage continues.

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