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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Cabinet Member Could No Longer Stand the Heat; Coronavirus Task Force Leader Takes a Swipe at the White House; Rayshard Brooks Gets His Initial Justice; President Trump Displays Authoritarian Instincts; President Trump Asked China's Xi For Reelection Help And Told Him To Keep Building Concentration Camps. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 18, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: So, she couldn't go in, so she went up.

How about that, huh? Her and a cherry picker. She did just that with the help from that 30-foot lift right there to the windows of the seniors' rooms. God bless her for doing that.

Thank you for watching. CNN Tonight with D. Lemon right now. Tutti Frutti.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Rudy. And we just lost Little Richard who was -- you know.

CUOMO: I know.

LEMON: Who did that? One of my favorites. As you know I have a big painting of Little Richard in my home I'm sure you've seen.

That we needed some good news. We needed some good news and someone who is an Ameri-can, as you say, because there is so much craziness going on in the world. There is so much upheaval, Chris. Have you -- well, I've lived longer than you.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: And I am -- just by two months.

CUOMO: Whatever.

LEMON: I have never seen so much upheaval. Usually there are things that happen, there's one big event, right? Maybe two big events. But there's so much upheaval in the world. And then we have an administration now that is in denial of a lot of it.

CUOMO: Well, not just in denial, but the lie, deny, defy, and the emphasis on division, what we got here, my friend, is fragile.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And when you grab it and tear it at the seams and they're not like you and these people shouldn't be here and this is wrong and I should have all the power and I'm angry and might makes right, things can get dicey.

And that's where we are. It's not one thing, it's a lot of things, because things here are fragile. We haven't had anybody try to bring us together in a long time.

LEMON: Yes. I say it's not denial, mostly it is, but mostly it's intentional deception. And, listen, none of us should be here except the Native American, right?

CUOMO: True.

LEMON: So, if you want to look -- if you want to look at the world in that way. So, we'll talk more. Have a good one.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You see the symbol they put on that campaign?

LEMON: Yes, I talked about it today on Wolf's show. Unbelievable.

CUOMO: No good explanation for that, my friend.

LEMON: And they should know better. Especially if you're going to be in a position to represent the most powerful person in the world, the leader of the free world, you should know better unless, again, it is intentional.

CUOMO: And if you're going to say you put it there because it's somebody else's symbol, why wouldn't you say who it is?

LEMON: Exactly.

CUOMO: Come on, man.

LEMON: Come on, man. All right. I'll see you.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I'll see you this weekend. I love you, Don Lemon.

LEMON: All right. You as well, sir. I'll talk to you soon. Have a good night and a safe trip home.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

The presidency of Donald Trump is in flames. It's in flames when it comes to race, when it comes to coronavirus, when it comes to fitness for office. Yes, when it comes to his precious poll numbers.

Here's what the Washington Post is reporting tonight. That a top State Department official is resigning over Trump's insensitive handling of the racial tensions and protests sparked by the killing of George Floyd who died while a former Minneapolis police officer kneeled on his neck. Her name is Mary Elizabeth Taylor, the assistant secretary of state

for legislative affairs, saying that the president's actions cut sharply against her core values and convictions. And that she must follow her conscience and resign.

Wow. When was the last time we heard that from this administration, if ever? Finally, someone in this administration having the decency to resign rather than be one of Trump's enablers.

Any Republicans on Capitol Hill listening? Any? Anybody? Bueller? No one. OK. Maybe her resignation was triggered by Trump's response to peaceful protestors at Lafayette Park near the White House, being gassed and trampled by police, just so he could stage a photo-op in front of historic St. John's Church holding a brand-spanking new shiny bible.

Or maybe it was his complete lack of empathy for the tens of thousands of Americans, people of all colors, who took to the streets for weeks protesting police brutality against African Americans.

Unfortunately, there was some violence and there was looting, but that was limited. Think about the number of people who were out there, the number of protests. The majority of protests in America's cities were peaceful.

[22:04:59]

But Trump lumped all protestors together in a tweet, calling them thugs and warning that when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Interesting. Trump, who demonstrates his ignorance on a regular basis, is now trying to make that ignorance a virtue.

Here's what he's telling the Wall Street Journal, that he made Juneteenth famous because nobody had ever heard of it. Probably him. It's likely that he never heard of it. And the people around him.

Juneteenth is tomorrow. Marks the end of slavery in America at the end of the Civil War. Maybe if he had more than just a few African Americans in key administration positions, somebody could have told him what Juneteenth is. Or if he had more learned people around him who didn't deny systemic racism, who didn't live in a bubble, the elites, and maybe he would know, someone could inform him, whisper in his ear.

Instead, apparently, well, that fell to a black Secret Service agent to clue in the president. And you know what? Thank goodness for that person. According to the Wall Street Journal, Trump didn't even know the White House put out -- puts out a statement marking the anniversary every year. His ignorance of Juneteenth reminds me of when he said this. Remember about Frederick Douglass? The former slave who became a statesman?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm very proud now that we have a museum, the National Mall where people can learn about Reverend King, so many other things, Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who has done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I notice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Did you notice? Really? The man clearly knew nothing about Frederick Douglass or that he has been dead for over 100 years. His ignorance of American history, especially black American history, which is American history, his ignorance is breathtaking.

Historian Michael Beschloss posting a tweet, I mean -- I just -- I want to show you. George Wallace writes a letter about segregation in 1964. We have never had a problem here in the south except in a few isolated instances and these have been the result of outside agitators. I personally have done more for the Negros of Alabama than any other individual.

Leave that up. Leave that up. There's what -- now, think about this. Where have you heard this before? We have never had a problem here in the south except in a few isolated instances, and there have been -- and those -- and these have been the result of outside agitators. I personally have done more for the Negros of Alabama than any other individual.

Sound familiar? George Wallace, who fought for segregation his entire life, claimed to do more for African Americans than anyone else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think I've done more for the black community than any other president.

My administration is delivering for African Americans like never before. No president has done more for our black community. No president has done more for our black community. And it's an honor to do it.

We've done more for African Americans in three years than the broken Washington establishment has done in more than 30 years.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You just have to play the own words. Own words. Wallace said there were just a few isolated incidents of problems. Sound familiar?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Nobody is more opposed to the small number of bad police officers, and you have them, they're very tiny. I use the word tiny. It's a very small percentage. But you have them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Come on, you all. Really? Are we going to sit here and pretend that this isn't happening? Because I'm not going to. I'm going to tell you the truth every single night. This is happening.

[22:10:03]

History, as they say, may not repeat itself, but it certainly does rhyme.

Trump admitting in the Journal interview that maybe, just maybe, there is some systemic racism in America. You think? The flames only grow higher. The president also telling the Journal that testing for coronavirus is overrated. And that Americans are wearing masks not to avoid the virus but as a way to signal disapproval of him.

I'm not making that up. Everything is about him. You ever notice that? Everything is about him. That happens to, like, young kids, right? Everything is about them and then they grow older and they mature and they evolve and they realize the world doesn't revolve around them. Come on, you have kids, parents, out there, right? Yes.

This country is being squeezed by a pandemic for which there is no vaccine for which, and one that killed more than 118,000 Americans. Trump has refused to wear a mask in public. Because it will make -- he believes it will make him look weak.

The reason people are wearing masks is to save the lives of other Americans, your fellow Americans, right? They're not being selfish so you're making sure that you don't spread to other people just in case you do have it.

Awe, shucks. He doesn't know what that means. No. You know what I'm talking about. That's what the CDC guidelines recommend. Why doesn't the president want to do that? Dr. Anthony Fauci taking a veiled swipe at Trump and Pence and others in the White House who have their heads in the sand, right now pretending we are past the coronavirus pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: One of the problems we face in the United States is that, unfortunately, there is a combination of an anti-science bias. That people are for reasons that sometimes are, you know, inconceivable and not understandable, they just don't believe science and they don't believe authority.

So, when they see someone up in the White House, which has an air of authority to it, who's talking about science, that there are some people who just don't believe that, and that's unfortunate because, you know, science is truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: If only we knew who was most responsible, most responsible for this inconceivable anti-science bias. Science is truth. If only we knew. And who is the biggest stranger to the truth? The president. Sad. Against the advice of medical experts, he is holding a campaign rally

in Tulsa on Saturday, packing 20,000 people in an arena. Listen to this. Today, the State of Oklahoma saw its largest single-day increase of COVID-19 cases since the start of the pandemic.

Just in case you don't know, Tulsa is in Oklahoma. Maybe some people don't know that. Trump doesn't care. The show must go on. Masks not required.

Meantime, over at the Trump campaign, Facebook taking down ads for violating its policy against organized hate. Organized hate. The ads containing an upside-down triangle, a symbol used by the Nazis to persecute political prisoners, many of whom perished in concentration camps.

The Trump campaign claims antifa groups use the symbol, but when asked by CNN, it couldn't point to any examples of antifa activists wearing it.

Remember, Trump set off a firestorm, this was in 2016, when he tweeted a graphic critical of Hillary Clinton that featured a six-point star. A pile of cash and the words most corrupt candidate ever. Critics slammed it as anti-Semitic imagery, likely intended to reach out to white supremacists.

And then there is John Bolton. He makes an allegation about President Trump in his upcoming book, that if it's true should sicken every America -- every American.

[22:14:55]

And another example of the flames engulfing this presidency, Bolton alleges that during a meeting with President Xi, the Chinese leader, explained to Trump why Beijing was building concentration camps to imprison Uyghur Muslims, a minority group in China, and that Trump encouraged him to do so. Allegedly telling Xi, it was, quote, "exactly the right thing to do."

Vile, isn't it, that an American president would ever encourage the building of concentration camps to imprison people? And if Bolton believes it's true, after all, he did put it in his book, why didn't he resign in protest? Why did he want to go public with this allegation until he is trying to make lots of money selling a book? Why?

Why didn't he do what Mary Elizabeth Taylor at the State Department did just tonight? Why didn't he? Remember, everyone, keep this in mind. Silence is not an option. By the way, the title of my new podcast, silence is not an option.

I'm calling out John Bolton. He should have gone public with all of his allegations sooner. He is no better than all the enablers allowing flames to consume this presidency. Who else will stand up and expose what he is doing to this country? Who else?

Even today, the Supreme Court block the Trump administration's attempt to end DACA, the Obama-era program that protects hundreds of thousands of immigrants brought to the U.S. as children from deportation.

What was Trump's response to that? Well, he tweeted this. Do you get the impression that the Supreme Court doesn't like me? Doesn't like me. Again, me. Only about him. Nobody else. So, who does he have to blame now? That the Trump presidency is up in flames.

So, tonight, one of the officers charged in the death of Rayshard Brooks is behind bars. The other is out on bond and says he is looking forward to cooperating with investigators. I'm going to speak with the prosecutor in charge, the Fulton County D.A., next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The two Atlanta police officers charged in the death of Rayshard Brooks turned themselves in today. The former officer charged with felony murder is being held without bond. However, the second officer was released. Sources saying that former Officer Garrett Rolfe has been moved from the Fulton County jail to another facility for security reasons.

Joining me now is Paul Howard, the District Attorney of Fulton County, Georgia. Mr. District Attorney, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.

Let's talk about this fired officer, Garrett Rolfe, spending tonight behind bars. How did you decide on these 11 charges, including felony murder? Because as you know, critics think that you overcharged here.

PAUL HOWARD, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: Well, I think that's untrue, but we did it based upon the evidence, Don. We had an opportunity to speak with three eyewitness, the witnesses who were from Memphis who were in Atlanta on that night.

We also had a chance to talk with seven other witnesses who were present at the scene of the incident, but we also had eight videotapes and the tapes are of really good quality, so we had a great chance to see what happened with the incident.

LEMON: So --

HOWARD: So, we charged --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So, you don't -- you don't feel that -- you don't feel that was an overcharge? You think it was based on what you saw, the evidence that you see on those tapes and from witnesses?

HOWARD: Absolutely.

LEMON: So --

HOWARD: I think --

LEMON: So, let's talk about Officer Brosnan. He was on MSNBC earlier. I just want to play some of what he said. Watch this, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEVIN BROSNAN, POLICE OFFICER, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I have full faith in the criminal justice system. I think this is a tragic event and it's totally -- a total tragedy that a man had to lose his life that night.

So, my initial encounter with him, I felt he was friendly. He was respectful. You know, I'm respectful to him. You know, and I felt like, you know, he seemed like someone who potentially needed my help. And I was really just there to see what I could do for him, make sure he was safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Mr. District attorney, Brosnan's attorney told our Ryan Young that he's not a witness for the state, that he's just a witness. That contradicts what you told us yesterday that he's a state witness.

HOWARD: Yes, we -- I'm sticking to what we said during our presentation. His attorney, Don Samuel, is someone that I've known for many years. I spoke with don personally about this maybe 30 minutes before our presentation, so I'm sticking with what we said and what Don said to me at that time.

I realize that this young man is going through probably -- he's getting a lot of pressure from a lot of groups and some of his colleagues, and Don, in fact, said to me that he was not ready psychologically to express all the things we think he could tell us about.

In fact, I said it at the presentation. So, my expectation is when we move to the next level, I would expect him to follow through with what he has already promised.

LEMON: So, you -- and you think you can depend your -- you can depend on what he says, on his testimony as a witness? Even -- even though he appears to have changed his mind or is contradicting himself or you?

HOWARD: Well, Yes, I think we can depend on it because we've already gotten the sworn statement from him.

LEMON: OK. Got it.

HOWARD: And, yes, and one of the things in the statement that he's admitted is something that I believe is crucial to this case. And he admitted that he stood on the body of Mr. Brooks.

[22:25:02]

LEMON: OK. How is it that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation wasn't aware that you were filing charges? Did you give them a headsup or not? Because that's what they're saying. Is that true? Did you give them a heads up? HOWARD: Don, apparently, they don't watch television and they don't

live in this country. I think almost everybody seemed to know that we had planned to make the announcement on Wednesday. And we said it several times.

I really don't even understand what the conversation is about the GBI. We work with their investigators and why they would even say that publicly, I'm not real sure. I hope that they'll send their report in. We'll get a chance to read it. But our office is an independent office. We make independent decisions. They are not based upon what the GBI produces. So, I'm still a little mystified about why this even came up.

LEMON: How do you respond to those who are questioning whether you moved quickly -- you moved too quickly to charge these officers because you are up for re-election, you're facing a run-off. You know, after last week's election.

HOWARD: Well, I think that if you look at the history of my office and how we've done this in the past, I believe this is the 40th time that we've prosecuted a police officer for misconduct. This is, in fact, the fourth time that we have decided to pursue arrest warrants for officers prior to an indictment.

We did it in a murder case in '16, 2016, in a sex offense case, in 2018, and, of course, with the college students several weeks ago, so we've had a history of doing this, and I think it's just totally incorrect to say it's political.

I'm accustom to that characterization because in every one of the cases that we've presented against police officers, starting back in 2002, the union always claims that it is political. So, I'm just --

LEMON: Got it.

HOWARD: I'm not surprised to hear that.

LEMON: Got it. I got a couple more questions to ask you. So, were you concerned at all -- there have been reports that you and the mayor were concerned that if you didn't charge, right, the way you did, that Atlanta would burn? Are you -- is that -- is that true?

HOWARD: No, well, I charged based upon the facts. I mean, I certainly -- I'm aware, I mean, that people were very much on edge. This was a horrendous incident, particularly after what had happened to George Floyd and then to have it happen here in Atlanta, and I realize that, but you can't charge someone based upon those conditions. You've got to stick to the facts. That's what we did and that's the reason that I charged it.

LEMON: If you can just quickly because I think it's important to put this up because you sent out some -- some threats that you received, right? Among messages, someone wrote, watch out, boy. You've got lots of cops pissed off with your low I.Q. liberal views. What are you going to do when there's no one there to protect you? Quickly, are you worried about those things? HOWARD: I'm not worried. I've received additional threats since that

time. But I just want people to know who are sending those threats that we are not going to be intimidated, we're not going to change our methods, we're going to continue to do what we believe is the right thing, and this was the right thing to do in this case.

LEMON: District Attorney Howard, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Please come back. Thank you.

HOWARD: Well, please invite me and I'll be there.

LEMON: Thank you so much. I'm glad there wasn't construction this time that we were on the air going on at your office. Thank you, sir. Take care.

HOWARD: All right.

LEMON: Big news today. My new podcast launched this morning, where I'm -- I'm talking -- I'm taking on the hard issues here, the conversations about being black in America. So, make sure you tune in to Silence is Not an Option. You can find it on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app. So, make sure you listen. I'm sure that you'll like it. Love your feedback.

So up next, a scathing new memoir that confirms everything we already knew about this president's behavior. Still, the new details are shocking and reveal just how many people around the president enable his authoritarian streak.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The bombshells revealed in former National Security Adviser John Bolton's upcoming book are only the latest examples of President Trump's authoritarian instincts. Don't believe me? Well, I'm going to give you a few examples from the book and other moments as well.

Bolton says President Trump asked China to help him win re-election in November. President Trump told President Xi to keep building concentration camps to imprison members of China's Uyghur Muslim minority. He told Xi people want presidential two-term limits gone, and according to Bolton, Xi said the U.S. had too many elections and President Trump agreed.

President Trump said invading Venezuela would be, quote, cool. President Trump expressed a willingness to give personal favors to dictators he liked, like halting criminal investigations. Trump said journalists should be executed. President Trump is constantly talking about law and order. Americans peacefully protesting outside the White House were gassed so the president could get a photo op.

He fired multiple inspectors general. These are the people meant to be independent government watchdogs. President Trump picked a Bannon ally to lead voice of America, a media organization that's supposed to be independent. Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, he testified in last year's impeachment inquiry. There is reporting his promotion could be in jeopardy as retaliation. And, of course, President Trump pushed Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden, which led to his impeachment.

[22:35:07]

Lot to discuss now with Jeffrey Toobin, CNN's chief legal analyst and CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. So, there you go. Laid it out for you. I teed it up for both of you. I appreciate you joining us. Douglas, Trump has taken authoritarian-like actions again and again, insofar as this president has character, is that of an authoritarian, his character?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I think Donald Trump is an authoritarian. We've watched this behavior repeat itself over and over again, and the Bolton book is a blockbuster. It's -- it's not to be unexpected what Bolton's saying, but the fact that this was the national security adviser, incidentally Trump called Bolton washed up when he hired him. Why would you hire a washed up person to run America's national security? The truth of the matter is Bolton should have come out sooner.

Like he said, he was an enablers of Trump. But he is a man I think who speaks the truth. I know him a little a bit through over the years on doing foreign policy and the like, and I think I believe what's in the book. And when you're talking about concentration camps and thumbs up and asking China to interfere with the election and believe not knowing that Britain doesn't have -- has nuclear weapons. He didn't know Britain had them.

And questioning when he's going to meet Putin in Helsinki, whether Finland's a satellite or a part of Russia. We are dealing with an incompetent president with a deep authoritarian bent and it's just -- the exposure couldn't be coming at a better time now because the American public is starting to get sick of his strong-arm tactics, at least poll wise, at this juncture.

LEMON: Well, he said, you know, all the best people that he would hire, Jeffrey, and then once they leave him, they turn out to be losers. I think -- I think Douglas is right, why does he keep hiring so many -- so many losers is the question? But I've got to ask you because, listen, what do you think of this list that I read obviously doesn't encompass all of the instances in which President Trump's three and a half years as the American president supporting, you know, concentration camps and so on. It's something that no one should be able to overlook.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No. You know, Don, the three words that have always summed up the news for the past three and a half years are shocking but not surprising. You know, every time we hear something about the president's behavior, his attitudes, it's shocking but it's not -- it's not really surprising, and the real issue, it seems to me, is how resilient are our institutions? The one that long predate Donald Trump to withstand his authoritarian instincts.

And we had one answer today, a very important one, from the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, you know, Donald Trump, you can't throw 700,000 law-abiding Americans that is the DREAMERS out of the country without following the rules. And they didn't follow the rules and the Supreme Court stood up to them, 5-4, it was a close case, but, you know, it's an example of how our institutions, at least some of the time, are responding to his authoritarian behavior.

LEMON: Yes. Douglas, regarding this news about what the president allegedly said about concentration camps, I mean, we're talking about a man who announced during the campaign that he would ban all Muslims from the United States. He told us exactly who he is.

BRINKLEY: That's the part that's so sickening. I mean, he's been telegraphing us for years that, you know, the whole birther -- we elected someone who believed in the birther conspiracy. He's a conspiracy monger. You know, but the problem I see, Don, you know, forging forward here is just what Jeffrey said. Can our institutions survive? It has been really rough the last few years. We get to hear people talk truth to power once they leave the Trump administration.

We saw all of our great heroes, whether its admiral McRaven or, you know, Mattis and on and on saying this president is -- is not right. Not right in the head. But I think when Trump teargassed protesters in front of the White House, did that bible holding up, is going to a rally with covid spiking in Oklahoma and Texas and Florida.

LEMON: Yes.

BRINKLEY: And going in without masks and doing an irresponsible thing like that, it's going to look horrific in -- in American history, and suddenly Biden's strategy of staying a little more low key for the time being really makes sense. Because as you began, Don, he is completely unraveling right now, Donald Trump. He's -- the country has one thing uniting them, and that is a distrust and even a disdain for the Trump presidency at this juncture.

[22:40:00]

LEMON: Yes. Jeffrey, our time is short. I'm sorry.

TOOBIN: Well, maybe. Well, maybe. I mean, you know, I think let's not right Donald Trump off too quickly. A lot of these authoritarian views are very popular out there in the world. And, you know, there are 40 percent of the people that are going to vote for Donald Trump no matter what, and the question is, can he get back to 270 electoral votes?

LEMON: Yes.

TOOBIN: I'm not prepared to say this election is over by any means.

LEMON: Well, and they like him because of all of the things that were mentioned and more.

TOOBIN: Exactly.

LEMON: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.

BRINKLEY: I think -- just one thing, Don, I think people are getting geared up to vote. I think the black lives matter movement and the protests, talking on the street, people now realize that this really is a battle --

LEMON: I'm up against a break, Douglas. I got to run.

BRINKLEY: I think the stakes are higher in 2020.

LEMON: Thank you very much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:00]

LEMON: Coronavirus cases ballooning across this country with nearly two dozen states showing spikes in cases compared to this time last week. Scientists sounding the alarm that Florida could become the next epicenter.

Joining me now is Dr. Ashish Jha the Director of the Harvard global health institute. Doctor, thank you so much. This is honestly deadly serious, 23 states. Nearly half the country in the red with new cases. Ten have seen a record number this week. It's looking dire in Florida. Do you expect this to get even worse?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Yes, unless we do some major changes in policy, Don, I am worried that these are going to get worse and we may see more states joining that list. Look, there are a few things we know that really do work. And I think, unfortunately, in many parts of the country we're not really implementing them. And that worries me.

LEMON: You know, doctor, there is -- Oklahoma cases are up 110 percent from this time last week. That arena holding the president's Tulsa rally asking for a safety plan. If the campaign cared about safety, would it even be holding this rally?

JHA: Yes, so, you know, what we know and what the science tells us, right, is that there are three things that really make mass gatherings dangerous. Being indoors, not wearing masks and having people close together for long periods of time. So, this is pretty much the least safe way to get people together. And I'm really worried about what's going to happen with this rally and there are lots of ways of making it safer. It doesn't sound like the campaign is really going to work on doing that.

LEMON: I just want to remind people of how far these particles can spread from a cough. This is a simulation that shows up to 12 feet. Now, imagine that in a packed indoor rally, thousands of people, many traveling in from beyond Tulsa, many of a certain age. How bad could this be?

JHA: Yes, so we could definitely see big spikes out off -- out of a rally like this. You can imagine if there are a few folks who are infected, we've seen super spreader events where 50, 60, 70 people have gotten infected from one person. So you get a couple of those in a crowd of 19,000 and things could get pretty bad pretty quickly. LEMON: Doctor, thank you. I appreciate your time.

JHA: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Despite the rise in coronavirus cases, the NFL still has their 2020 season kickoff planned for September. Will it actually happen? What Dr. Anthony Fauci is warning about the NFL, next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00]

LEMON: So, Anthony Fauci warning today NFL players the NFL football may not happen this year, telling CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta in I quote here, unless players are essentially in a bubble, insulated from the community and they are tested nearly every day it would be very hard to see how football is able to be played this fall. So, let's discuss now with Malcolm Jenkins of the New Orleans Saints who's a new CNN contributor. Welcome, sir. Welcome to the team.

MALCOLM JENKINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: I appreciate you. Thank you, thank you.

LEMON: You are going to take us to the super bowl. I appreciate you joining us. Listen, this is really serious as I said to the doctor in the segment before. The NFL kickoff is still scheduled for this September. Do you think that's going to happen?

JENKINS: I think right now it's still too early. I think everybody's is really just waiting to see what happens. I'm very skeptical of it based on kind of what we're seeing now in this uptick in cases and positive cases. But I think the goal -- there is a desire to have football, have some form of what we do, but I'm skeptical, personally.

LEMON: The NFL's chief medical officer responded to Dr. Fauci. This is part of what he said tonight and I quote here. He said, we're developing a comprehensive and rapid result testing program and rigorous protocols that called for a shared responsibility for everyone inside our football ecosystem. This is based on the collective guidance of public health officials including the White House task force, the CDC, infectious diseases experts and other sports leagues. Are you confident the league will take the necessary steps to keep everyone as safe as possible?

JENKINS: Well, I think the biggest thing is like, you have to understand, what does it take for us to be safe? Right? And we can't be completely isolated and people are still able to go to and from, then how do we actually create a safe workplace? And that's the number one thing that the league as an employers should be thinking about. How do we create it safe?

In a sport where you have 22 guys on the field at the same time, you have guys training as a contact sport, and the second thing is testing. Like, we don't even know if we'll have the capability to do the amount of testing that will be required to keep us safe so we can contact tracing isolate guys. And my third point, if we do get that amount of testing, is it going to be ethical enough if we do have an uptick and more upticks in the fall, are we taking tests away from community as a non-essential businesses? And I think those are things that we all have to weigh.

LEMON: Listen, as we were talking in the break, several Dallas Cowboys, and Houston Texans, I think you said some Broncos as well. But listen, it's also hitting college football. Because Alabama, University of Texas dealing with similar issue for people who may think that this is a hoax. If it stops their football, especially college football down south, then maybe they'll start thinking it is real at this point.

I want to move on, since we have limited time here, until I get your reaction to what President Trump is now saying about Colin Kaepernick being signed by a team. Listen to this now, Malcolm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:55:06]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He can only get it if he has the ability. They're not going to lose games because of you know, wanting to be politically correct or whatever term you might -- I don't know if that's politically correct or the opposite. But if he has the ability. Look, he was a great rookie and his second year was great and then after that he started going downhill rather rapidly. And then he was out of football, then he started suing everybody.

And I think he made a lot more money doing that than he did with football. But if he has the ability, somebody would take him. I think look, I know a lot of these owners. They had somebody that was going to win games they'll sign him, it doesn't matter who they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So are you surprised at the president who called kneeling players sons of bitches is now saying this?

JENKINS: No, I think, I actually enjoy watching him move on from those comments, and telling Colin Kaepernick to go to another country, or calling our peers, you know, sons of bitches. Now, he seems to know a great deal about Colin Kaepernick's career and what he's been doing. He sounds like a fan, but I'm more interested to hear what his commentary is on the actual issues that those quote, unquote, sons of bitches have been fighting for.

LEMON: Malcolm Jenkins. Always a pleasure.

JENKINS: I appreciate it.

LEMON: Welcome. (Inaudible). Thank you so much.

JENKINS: All right, thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

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