Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Openly Disagrees With Dr. Anthony Fauci; Mayor Dan Gelber (D), Miami Beach, FL Is Interviewed About The Alarming Spike In His Turf; Sports World Tackling Anti-Semitism. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 08, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: What are these people, I mean, come on. Really?
CUOMO: I got his Irish. Nino Vitale.
LEMON: I'm not saying --
CUOMO: Couldn't be more Italian than that.
LEMON: I'm not getting in on that thing. But I mean, how -- I wonder if these people work for the Pretzel companies. Like they should open, like start a pretzel business --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Because they got it twisted.
LEMON: They got it twisted and -- well, it's religion. It's you know, you can't --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: You can't wear a mask. You don't see one on Jesus.
LEMON: It's --
CUOMO: That's a B.S. holy name.
LEMON: What -- Chris, what is happening? What do we live -- have you seen the videos of these people in the stores who are like, get away from me? You're threatening me. I don't have to wear a mask. It's like, what's wrong?
I just, I want to play all of them. Not even saying anything and just let people see themselves. Just -- just wear a mask. You have to wear a shirt. You got to wear shoes. You can't go without pants or I mean, come on. What's wrong with people?
CUOMO: I'll tell you what. We have a lot more of this go on and I'm going to start wearing the MAGA hat because it will actually be true. We will have to build up our greatness again. Because this is the most pathetic display. This guy is elected --
LEMON: I know.
CUOMO: -- an Ohio state representative.
LEMON: Well. You people do anything for the job. You know what I'm saying.
CUOMO: Damn.
LEMON: It's -- this is where we are right now. But I wonder, I'm just looking back over the course of history when people five years from now, ten years from now, whenever. When people look back, I just wonder what they're going to say about themselves.
All you have to do is just roll the video tape. And they'll see the pictures and the history books and then the magazines of them, you know, at the rallies. Not socially distancing and on and on and on.
CUOMO: We're killing ourselves.
LEMON: And what would they -- what would they think about themselves then.
CUOMO: We have met the ultimate enemy, Don Lemon.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And it is us.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, sir.
CUOMO: I love you, Don Lemon.
LEMON: Listen. Whatever. You know how I feel about you.
CUOMO: I'll take it. Whatever it is about the best you can --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Now get on your way, mister. I'll see you later. Thank you, Chris. Love you.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
And this is the worst day yet of this pandemic in this country. I'm not lying. The day we passed three million cases. And that means 25 percent of cases worldwide are right here, right in the U.S., right where we live now.
The death toll nationwide over 132,000. The numbers tell the story of how this virus is spreading. Like wild fire. Across the south and across the west. Can we put that map back up again, please. Look at that map. Look at
how it's spreading. Hold it up in a second. Thank you, Mr. Director. Look at that map. Look at the red and the orange. Still a hoax? Still have it under control do you think? Still in a good place?
Florida's Miami-Dade County has seen a 70 percent increase in patients being hospitalized. And the president is headed there on Friday. But not to address those skyrocketing coronavirus numbers. No, no, no, no. He's going for a meeting on drug trafficking.
Hospital rates are up 44 percent in California over the past two weeks. Texas reporting its highest number of coronavirus deaths in a single day. Louisiana, it's my hometown, my home state, has lost all gains it made in June against the virus.
And I'm looking at you Louisiana folks because I know a lot of you. Some of you I know really well. You still think it's a hoax. You're still telling me you don't believe in masks. You're still traveling to other places not realizing that there's a quarantine. You know who you are. And testing.
We still don't have the testing we need. People are still lining up for hours four months after the president falsely promised anybody who needs a test gets a test. That turned out not to be true, right?
Americans are dying. More lives are at risk. This is no time for the President of the United States to be going against this country's top doctors and medical experts. The President of the United States going against top doctors and medical experts. Not when their warnings could be the difference between life and death. Yet that is exactly what he is doing. He is denying science, he is denying fact. And he's openly at odds with Dr. Anthony Fauci as the virus rages.
You think that he would be in front. He would be front and center at today's Coronavirus Task Force briefing. Right? Meaning Dr. Fauci. Nope. Nowhere to be seen. And not by choice. Dr. Fauci who the president has been complaining about behind closed doors for months was sidelined today, everyone. Sidelined exactly when we need to hear from him the most.
[22:05:02]
And that was clearly a deliberate move by this White House to take the spotlight off the doctor who is telling the nation what the president doesn't want us to hear. He doesn't want you to hear it. He wants you to stew in the ignorance that he perpetrates.
Sources telling CNN Dr. Fauci was told to join the meeting by video conference. Keeping him off the briefing stage. That didn't stop him from saying this to the Wall Street Journal podcast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We have never gotten out of the first wave. I would call it a surging of cases within the context of a wave that never went away. So, I wish we would stop talking about waves and just looking at the reality of where we are right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Dr. Fauci says he wishes we would look at the reality of where we are right now. Dr. Fauci, we see that reality. We really do. But it's really about President Trump with his eyes squeezed shut.
But this is a president who is consistently denying reality. Constantly doing it. And he can actually bring himself to listen to his own medical experts he would unfollow their urgent warnings. Right? Excuse me, he would follow, I should say, their urgent warnings, because he's unfollowing them right now. If that's even a word.
He wouldn't be ignoring their guidance on mask. He wouldn't host Mexico's president at the White House tonight with absolutely no social distancing. He wouldn't be holding campaign rallies like the one he's got planned in New Hampshire on Saturday. A rally the governor says he won't attend because of the virus. Or the one in Tulsa last month. A rally -- one Tulsa health official is saying likely contributed to the surge in new cases there.
He wouldn't be demanding that the nation's schools reopen ready or not. Threatening to cut off funding if they don't. Though, threats or no threats he can't actually just up and cut federal funding for schools. OK?
The president tweeting this morning that he disagrees with the CDC on what he calls a very tough and expensive guidelines for opening schools. Translation. He disagrees with science. He disagrees with fact. He disagrees with anything that he thinks could get in the way of his reelection. That's all this is. Which doesn't bode well for anybody hoping against hope that our leaders will get their act together before it is too late.
Just a few hours after that tweet the Vice President, Mike Pence, backtracked saying the CDC will issue new guidance on reopening schools next week. Speaking to an audience of one, one in the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The president said today we just don't want the guidance to be too tough. That's the reason why next week CDC is going to be issuing a new set of tools.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Too tough. Too tough. I guess the president doesn't want schools to work too hard to keep students and teachers safe. And we all know parents across this country want their kids to go back to school. There are plenty of kids who want that too after months of staying at home. But we want them to be safe. We don't want them forced back into a classroom because the president thinks that it will help him in November. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because I think it's going to be good for them politically so they keep the schools closed. No way. So, we're very much going to put pressure on governors and everybody else to open the schools to get them open. And it's very important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Did you ever try to tell kids to stay you -- parents -- I'm not a parent. I'm just an uncle. Right? Baby sit a lot. Tell kids to stay in one place? Tell kids to social distance? How do you do that on school bus?
Always grievances. Always accusing his perceived political enemies of putting politics ahead of doing what is right. Projecting much? The president is trying to rewrite reality. All to get himself reelected. And when it comes to this deadly virus that's putting every one of us in danger, he said this to Real Clear Politics about reelection. OK?
He said, quote, "I want it with all my breath. With every ounce of what I represent." The question is, what is he willing to do to get it? He didn't say I want with all my breathe for everyone to be safe. For everyone's health to be good. I want with all my breath to be reelected.
[22:10:04]
And tonight, you know, please listen to me, we're going to take, take on a controversy that is raging in the sports world and beyond. Superstar DeSean Jackson sparking outrage with anti-Semitic social media posts for which he later apologized.
You know, I've often said in person and even here on CNN, and I think many of you have heard me, that black people and Jewish people have more in common than not. Bigots hate us for no rational reason. Ignorance. That doesn't need to be an oppression competition between Jewish people and African-Americans.
Genocide through slavery or through the holocaust is still genocide. It is murder. But let us be real, you never want to endorse genocide. You don't ever. No human being should ever get anywhere near that. You should rethink being on social media if that's the kind of thing that you post. Even if you apologize later.
Every thought in your head, people, does not need to be shared on social media. Former NBA player Stephen Jackson got in the middle of all of this saying that he supported DeSean Jackson. Stephen Jackson knows about prejudice and pain. He calls George Floyd his brother. He's going to join me tonight and we're going to talk about all of this. What he meant and what he is saying now.
These are by the way the kind of tough conversations about being black in America that I have on my new podcast. It's called Silence is Not an Option. You can find it on Apple podcast or your favorite podcast app. I hope you'll check it out and I hope you'll stay tuned to this program because we'll going to go through all of this and dig deep.
So how much trouble are we in with the president sidelining Dr. Anthony Fauci in the middle of a deadly pandemic? We'll discuss, next.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The U.S. passing another grim milestone now more than three million cases of coronavirus since the pandemic began. More than 132,000 deaths. Cases spiking in 35 states as President Trump feuds with Dr. Fauci and the CDC.
I want to discuss now with White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, good evening to you. Good to see you. I hope you're doing well.
Dr. Fauci was noticeably absent from today's task force briefing. Why was the nation's top infectious disease expert not there?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So, there was a meeting right before that, it was at the Department of Education. That's where you saw that briefing happening with the vice president and several other people. But Dr. Fauci was back here at the White House because he was told to join that meeting from the situation room video -- via a video teleconference type situation.
Which is interesting because obviously, the Department of Education is only about a mile and a half down the road. Yet, Fauci was told to go to the situation room to watch the briefing from there to participate in the meeting from there, and then of course he couldn't come to the briefing afterward because he wasn't in there.
And so, you know, if there's a reason Dr. Fauci wasn't invited to the Department of Education the task force so far has not provided it yet. But it obviously, Don, raises the question of is this because Dr. Fauci has been one who so far in the past has not been afraid to break with the president and say he doesn't agree with his assessments of where the nation stands when it comes to coronavirus.
LEMON: The president, Kaitlan, is trashing the CDC's school reopening guidelines. So, what happens? The CDC is not going to update them? I mean, this raises a lot of questions as to whether any reopening plans will be based on science or whether it's going to be based on politics.
COLLINS: Yes. And what's notable about how they are issuing that new guidance next week is the vice president directly tied it to the president saying that he thought the guidance so far was too tough. That's what he said today when we were at that briefing.
And so, it raises all these questions of why wasn't the president aware before the CDC posted the guidance as it is now. But today we asked the White House what is it exactly that the president doesn't like about this guidance? Because when you look at it, it's social distancing, refitting classrooms so students can social distance. New ventilation. things like that.
And they only gave us one reason, Don. And that was, for example, students being urged by this guidance to bring their lunch to school. Which the White House said wasn't feasible because so many students do rely on schools to get their lunch. But, Don, that was the only reason they gave us when we asked multiple times what are all the issues that he has with this guidance.
LEMON: And quickly, Kaitlan, the president gave a joint statement at the White House tonight with the Mexican President Manuel Lopez Obrador. And there's a dinner at the White House? Are people wearing masks? Are they distancing at all?
COLLINS: No. If you look at the delegations today even in the Rose Garden, they were not wearing masks. Of course, we know the U.S. side has not been doing so. The Mexican was not either. Today, the White House justifies this by saying everyone got tested when they arrived here at the White House.
We know the Mexican president was tested before he even left Mexico. But it is notable that the president is here welcoming the Mexican president and happy to have him here and he is joining him. The Canadian prime minister was also invited because it was this joint celebration of that trade agreement. But the Canadian prime minister declined to come because of coronavirus.
LEMON: Kaitlan, thank you. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
Now I want to bring in William Haseltine, a former professor at Harvard Medical School. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it. So, we're hearing two very different messages from President Trump and Dr. Fauci. Listen to this please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think we are in a good place.
FAUCI: We're facing a serious problem now.
TRUMP: We're almost up to 40 million in testing. And 40 million people which is unheard of.
FAUCI: This is the thing that is a little bit concerning. Because well, we now have 37 million tests have been performed. The question is when you get on the phone and talk to the people in the community there are still lapses there where the dots are not being connected.
[22:20:07]
TRUMP: If you look at the chart of death. Deaths are way down.
FAUCI: It's a false narrative to take comfort in a lower rate of death.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, my question is, how worried are you that Dr. Fauci, he's the expert in all of this, that he wasn't at today's briefing and the president is openly disagreeing with him.
WILLIAM HASELTINE, FORMER PROFESSOR, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: I've worked with Dr. Fauci for 30 years. And during the AIDS epidemic I worked with him very, very closely. We all are worried. It's not just Dr. Fauci that's worried. Every American at this point is worried about what's happening. Whether they are voicing that worry or not.
You can't look at three million people infected. You can't look at 60,000 new infections yesterday detected. That actually if you translate that, that means that there are probably 20,000 new people go -- or 20 -- let's say 12,000 new people going into hospital. That means of that there'll be at least 1,500 people die. Just because they were diagnosed today.
We know that our states are going to something like called crisis standards of care where they are going to be turning away people because they don't think they have a chance to live. They'll be turning away people only because they are old. Because they don't think it's worth -- they can't afford. They know it's worth saving them. They just don't have the facilities.
LEMON: And --
HASELTINE: We shouldn't be talking about restricting things. We should be talking about how we get more aid to our southern states that are in desperate need.
LEMON: Yes. Southern and western states. And if we have that -- if we have that map you can put it up and the red and the orange if you can find it.
But, you know, if you listen to the president, and many in the administration or his apologists -- now there's a map. I mean, plus 50 percent with the red and then the orange is plus 10 to 50 percent in this country. New cases in the past week versus the previous week.
HASELTINE: Right.
LEMON: I mean, that is just extraordinary. It's astounding. The president is --
(CROSSTALK)
HASELTINE: And I want -- and I want people to think about something else. We have seen this CDC guidance reversed once before. Remember when it had to do with reopening the CDC had one set of guidelines and then they were asked to rewrite those guidelines by the White House? And they did.
LEMON: Yes.
HASELTINE: And look at what has happened. Well, we're now being asked, the CDC is now being asked to rewrite the guidelines for school openings. What do you think could happen then?
LEMON: That's what I want to talk to you about.
HASELTINE: And I really thought --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Let me ask you, because, you know, he is really pushing hard, meaning the president, to send students back to school. There are so many considerations here. The students, teachers. Siblings, parents at home. The school bus drivers, all the workers, and you know, lunchroom, and on and on. How do parents know if it is safe to send their kids back to school and the teachers actually know that it's safe to hold a class? Go on, please.
HASELTINE: First thing I would say is everybody wants the kids to go back to school. We know we need it for the future of our nation. We know we need it for sanity of the children and of their parents. It is a very difficult situation. We all want to do it. But we want to do it safely. Our children are the most important precious things we have.
I have to say, I hope Dr. Redfield, my good friend, was quoted out of context when he said it's very, very difficult for children to get sick. That is not true. Children get infected, they infect each other. They infect their parents. And when they do get sick, it is catastrophic.
I have a friend who had a child who got sick. He barely, barely made it out alive.
LEMON: Yes.
HASELTINE: And we now know that there's long term damage to the brain. Four out of four children in one study who were studied had brain damage that may last a lifetime. This is not something to fool around with.
LEMON: You were being I think sarcastic when you were saying you hope Dr. Redfield is taken out of the context because I'm not so sure that he was.
HASELTINE: I wasn't being sarcastic. He's a wonderful man with a great history of fighting AIDS for his whole life. And he's in a difficult position. And I just hope that wasn't an accurate quote, because it's simply not true.
LEMON: I hope you're right. I hope it wasn't accurate as well. But in this environment, well, I won't go on. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you for appearing on the show.
HASELTINE: You're welcome.
LEMON: Cases and hospitalizations skyrocketing in Florida as dozens of hospitals run out of ICU space. I'm going to talk with the Miami Beach mayor about the dire situation there, next.
[22:25:02]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Coronavirus is -- there is nowhere to put it -- it is surging in Florida. And the numbers are staggering. Nearly 10,000 new cases reported today. Forty-two hospitals in the state have no more beds in their ICU. And in hard hit Miami-Dade County hospitalizations due to COVID-19 are up 70 percent over the past two weeks.
I want to discuss now with the mayor of Miami Beach, and that is Mayor Dan Gelber. Mayor, thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us this evening.
MAYOR DAN GELBER (D), MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: Happy to be here.
LEMON: In Miami-Dade hospitalizations up 70 percent. Patients in ICU beds up 84 percent. patients on ventilators are up 116 percent. What's going on? This is dire.
GELBER: It is. And I don't think it helps for people to suggest that it isn't. I think one of the problems has been that, you know, I'm hearing from the White House how this really is not a big deal. Ninety-nine percent of people shouldn't worry. Our governor isn't making people wear masks and the result is that people don't see this crisis.
[22:29:57]
And the truth of the matter is because of the way it bakes into the community, it doesn't really show up. What we're seeing now it won't show up for two weeks and more ICUs and more people on ventilators. So, you know, this is a real problem. And we're not getting -- and it's frustrating for people like me who are seeing at the local level.
LEMON: Mayor, indoor dining parties, indoor dining party venues, gyms. They're all closed. They all closed but they're back up today. Beaches reopened following the holiday weekend. Is this some -- is this mixed messaging? Should it be tighter restrictions across the board?
GELBER: Well, indoor dining will not happen. That for sure because it's indoors without a mask. I think we're only headed towards more restrictions because obviously -- I mean, in two weeks we've doubled the patients on in ICU. We've doubled the patients on ventilators. That's an amazing spike.
So, if this just continues, we're not going to have a healthcare apparatus to deal with it. So, we'll have to do things like roll up the carpet more. Not allowing people to do things that they like to do. Hopefully not have to shelter in place.
But the problem is we're really having problem getting people to comply. And honestly, it's the mixed messages we're getting are not helping. It's becoming political statement to wear a mask --
LEMON: Yes.
GELBER: -- and how long before that can be the case makes no sense to me at all.
LEMON: It's absolutely mind boggling. And you know, if this is about the health of Americans, right?
GELBER: Yes.
LEMON: But if they -- but if they -- if the president -- which is what he wants which is running on the economy, if he wants the economy to rebound shouldn't he be doing or the administration be doing everything they could in one fell swoop to get the numbers of people who are becoming infected and dying and so on under control rather than doing it piecemeal? Because that's going to only hurt the economy to keep closing it and roll, you know, and roll up the sidewalk and take away the, you know, the I'm open sign. Right?
GELBER: And it's even worse than that. Because if you do it a second time people don't trust you anymore. Because you told them it was safe to open.
I mean, look, the real problem is the president keeps telling people to just go ahead and act the way they want to. And all the local officials who see the ICU census and the, you know, and the ventilator census, we are rushing to tell people just wear your mask and we can do this. Just do all these things. Sacrifice a little bit for your loved one or for a stranger. That's what Americans do.
The president could convince people to do this.
LEMON: Yes.
GELBER: Because certainly a number of people listen to him very clearly. He could be the leader in this. If we solve this it's not going to be because of his leadership. It's going to be, frankly, in spite of it.
LEMON: Helping each other out is the American way. Anything else is un-American. Thank you very much. I appreciate it, Mayor. You be safe down there.
GELBER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: NFL star DeSean Jackson apologizing after sharing anti-Semitic posts on social media. Former NBA player Stephen Jackson adding to the controversy after seeming to support the now deleted post. OK? So, Stephen Jackson is with me. And Stephen Jackson is next.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: NFL star DeSean Jackson a wide receiver for the Philadelphia Eagles now apologizing for a series of anti-Semitic Instagram posts that sparked outrage.
The story tonight from CNN's Brian Todd. BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's been one of the NFL's most dazzling and best-known players for more than a decade. But tonight, DeSean Jackson is desperately trying to salvage his reputation.
The Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver in recent day posted on Instagram quote, "that are falsely attributed to Adolf Hitler." The director of Philadelphia's chapter of Antidefamation League says the fact that it's not a real quote from Hitler isn't the point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIRA GOODMAN, PHILADELPHIA REGIONAL DIRECTOR, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: So, to see that on Instagram from a sports figure it is so jarring and hurtful and offensive. And that's what we want DeSean Jackson to understand. What he is spreading and that kind of message what the impact that has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: The Eagles whose owner and general manager are Jewish issued a statement calling Jackson's post absolutely appalling. The NFL called them highly inappropriate, offensive and divisive. Jackson issued an initial apology, saying, anyone who feels I have hate towards the Jewish community took my post the wrong way. I have no hatred in my heart towards no one.
But then another apology. Saying my intention was to uplift, unite and encourage our culture with positivity and light. Unfortunately, that did not happen. I unintentionally hurt the Jewish community in the process. And for that, I am sorry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESEAN JACKSON, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES WIDE RECEIVER: I just want you to understand that it never was intended to be, you know, to put any race down or any religion down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: But according to the Washington Post Jackson had also posted an image on Instagram of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, calling Farrakhan powerful.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOODMAN: He is a powerful speaker. The problem is that he has been known for decades to spew hate against the Jews and others. And amplifying his message is very dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: The fallout from Jackson's posting probably couldn't come at a more sensitive time. Just weeks after several prominent black athletes sent powerful messages against racism during the George Floyd protest movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE FREEMAN, COLUMNIST, SPORTICO.COM: If you remember the African- American community, and you want respect from people, you have to give that same respect. You can't tell people that we should be treated like human beings which is obvious, and then go and demean another group of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: But adding to this controversy was a posting from Stephen Jackson, the former NBA player who was an inspiring voice during the George Floyd protest.
[22:40:02]
Stephen Jackson seems to support DeSean Jackson's now deleted postings about Jews. Columnist Mike Freeman says so much for the goodwill that Stephen Jackson created over the past few weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOODMAN: He said some really passionate, smart things. And was a really good almost spokesperson for what's happening. And then now I think this destroys it all. It obliterates it all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, joining me now to discuss all of this is retired NBA player Stephen Jackson. Stephen, thank you for joining us this evening. DeSean Jackson has now issued multiple apologies. Can you clear things up for us? Do you support the anti-Semitic rhetoric DeSean initially posted and then down?
STEPHEN JACKSON, FORMER NBA PLAYER: What's up, Don? You all tried with that preview. You all tried it. I laughed at that whole thing. Nobody can find a video or article of me saying I hate anybody. I owned something that says love for all who have love for all. I stand on that.
I've been in 42 years you can't say I approach any race or I stand different. No, I don't support any of that. Maybe I could have been more clear of what I thought DeSean was correct about. But I didn't feel -- I didn't feel the need to go into a conversation that me and him had about how they were treating him and Riley Cooper.
I couldn't change those words. But the people that know me and my Jewish friends that I talked to today they know that the last thing I was spewing was to defend Hitler or any other post. That's why I didn't speak on Hitler or even speak on his post. I spoke on exactly what I agreed with. And they were handling him different than it was handling Cooper.
That's the end of it. They can twist it how they want. But that's exactly what it is. I don't hate nobody.
LEMON: OK, Stephen. But, why, why would you cosign something that DeSean apologized for and said that he didn't know -- he didn't understand what he was putting tweet -- what he was putting out on social media. The quotes were wrong.
He's actually meeting with the rabbi so they can learn more about anti-Semitism and Jewish people and Jewish culture and the Jewish religion. Why would you feel the need to cosign something that that was not positive? That's what people don't understand. Especially after all the goodwill that you inspired and created after George Floyd. Why would you even weight into this?
JACKSON: I'm going to tell you just like I told them, nice try. I have been out fighting for justice and for equality. I now was speaking on equality. Why it wasn't having Cooper and DeSean Jackson any other way. Like I said, they can twist it how they want to. You didn't hear -- you didn't hear a word out in my mouth saying I hate Jews. You didn't hear a word in my mouth saying I'm supporting Hitler.
They can twist it how they want. I don't hate nobody. I've been standing for everybody. I'm going to continue to. And that's just the end of it.
LEMON: OK.
JACKSON: But you never heard that come out of my mouth.
LEMON: OK. I don't -- listen, I don't want to get into an argument with you about this. But I don't know what you mean nice try. I'm just -- all I'm doing is using your words and your post and I'm asking you about it.
You can feel the way that you feel but I'm not trying anything. No one is trying anything. We're just reporting the story. And nobody is trying to twist anything. You actually had an Instagram live conversation earlier and you reference the Rothschild banking family. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: I just said that Jews are the richest. You know what the Rothschild are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: that's a specific example. I do. But in terms of --
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: They control all the banks. They own all the banks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do you understand -- that is an anti-Semitic trope about Jews and money. It's very offensive.
JACKSON: Hey, Don, can you go back and watch the whole conversation why we brought it up? We were talking about money. And when I said that he didn't take it the wrong way. He said that people money wasn't associated with Jews. And I just ask him that. It wasn't an insult. And he didn't take it as an insult. Our
conversation went on and had a good conversation. So, the person I'm talking to understood what I was saying and he didn't take it as an insult. I don't think nobody else should.
LEMON: Stephen, just because you don't understand that what you're saying --
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: No, I didn't say I did not understand.
LEMON: No, no, no. Let me get the question in and I promise I'll let you answer. Just because you don't understand that something that you're saying or doing is anti-Semitic doesn't mean that it's not. And I think that you are trying to defend something, this is me, trying to defend something that you don't understand is anti-Semitic. Just as people try to defend things that they don't understand is racist or racist against black people.
And so, should you, instead of defending this so much shouldn't you be trying to understand as you want others to understand what happened to George Floyd and black lives matter and racism against black people.
[22:45:04]
Shouldn't you be trying to understand why Jewish people are offended and many others who are allies of Jewish people like me who are offended by and see what -- and see what you don't understand about what you're saying about the Rothschilds and that trope about Jewish people and controlling the banks. Do you understand what I'm saying?
JACKSON: I totally understand what you're saying. But that never was my intent.
LEMON: I understand that's not your intent. But it doesn't have to be your intent. Maybe you just don't --
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: I understand --
LEMON: OK, go on.
JACKSON: I apologize for using the wrong words as I first stated when I got on here. I could have changed my words. But there's nothing that said that I support any of that. There's nothing that I said that I hate anybody.
I apologize for my words and I could have switched up. But that's the end of it. I know I love everybody and that's how I always stand. And I'm not going to let anybody demean my character because I'm not stand up here apologizing for a job. I don't work for nobody. I'm apologizing because what I stand for is love for all who have love for all. And I mean that. And that's where I draw the line. LEMON: OK. I just want to get this one thing and I know we're going a
little bit over. And listen, I appreciate you coming on and doing this. But -- and I gather from what you're saying you understand that it wasn't your intention. But you understand that what you said was wrong? Is that correct?
JACKSON: I do.
LEMON: OK.
JACKSON: I do.
LEMON: I just want to play this. I want to play from Zach banner. Zach Banner the Pittsburg Steelers. he's an offensive tackle, he put up this video messaging condemning anti-Semitism. Watch this then I'll get your response, Stephen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZACH BANNER, OFFENSIVE TACKLE, PITTSBURG STEELERS: We need to understand that Jewish people deal with the same amount of hate and similar hardships and hard times. I'm not trying to get emotional right now. But I want to preach to the black and brown community that we need to uplift and put our arms around them just as much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, what do you think of what Zach is saying. Do you agree with what he's saying then?
JACKSON: I definitely agree. I just want that same energy when we're getting killed in the street. I definitely agree. He didn't say anything wrong. I want the same energy all the way around.
LEMON: OK. Stephen, thank you. I appreciate you joining us. Good luck and be safe.
JACKSON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
JACKSON: Thanks.
LEMON: So, these are the conversations that I have in my podcast. OK? And it's called Silence is Not an Option. Be sure to listen to this new episode it's out tomorrow. And I think you're going to learn a lot from this. You can find it on Apple podcast or your favorite podcast app.
So, you have now heard from Stephen Jackson. What is the hall of famer -- hall of fame broadcaster Bob Costas have to say about all of this? We're going to find out. He's next.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: So, you just heard from Stephen Jackson. He says anti-Semitic posts from NFL player DeSean Jackson are speaking the truth.
Let's discuss now with Bob Costas. Bob, thank you so much.
BOB COSTAS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Don.
LEMON: I should welcome you, right? Are you a new contributor here? Is it official?
COSTAS: Yes, officially. Seems like I've been a contributor for a few months but now I am officially that. Yes.
LEMON: Thank you and welcome. So, I'm sure you heard the interview with Stephen Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Stephen Jackson causing a lot of pain in the sports world and in black and Jewish communities. Give me your reaction, what do you think of what Stephen Jackson said.
COSTAS: Well, Stephen, and I give him full credit for all the good things he has said and done in the aftermath of the murder of his friend George Floyd, but he is not coming to terms yet with what you were gently trying to coax him to seeing.
You cannot proclaim, for example, and this didn't come up in the interview, but you cannot proclaim your love and support for Louis Farrakhan without being in some way associated with anti-Semitism and the many other hateful and objectionable things that Farrakhan has said and stood for over decades right up until recently.
And when it comes to Instagram or Twitter, where DeSean Jackson becomes ensnared, everybody ought to back off a little bit. If you don't know what you're talking about, you don't have to share your every random thought. Stop.
LEMON: Yes. I said that in my open tonight. Every thought you have does not have to be -- you don't have to put it on social media.
COSTAS: Yes.
LEMON: Former Philadelphia Eagles president Joe Banner says that this is -- this about DeSean Jackson in his original post. He said, if a white player said anything about African-Americans as outrageous as what DeSean Jackson said about Jews tonight, there would be at least a serious conversation about cutting him and a need for a team meeting to discuss, which would be totally appropriate. Absolutely indefensible. Do you think the NFL should have a serious conversation about DeSean Jackson, that serious as what I just read?
COSTAS: Yes, they should. Yes, they should. But I'm not for cancel culture. DeSean Jackson has a chance to step forward and apologize. Apparently, he's taken those steps. He can say that he's come to terms with it, he understands that what he said was outrageous, and it's going to be compared with Riley Cooper, who coincidentally also played for the Eagles. He used the n-word at a concert. It was overheard. I can't recall if it was caught on cell phone video or not, but there is no dispute that he used it. He apologized. This is sports. And you know this, Don, Riley Cooper was at an earlier
stage of his career and might have been viewed as a more valuable player.
LEMON: Yes.
COSTAS: Sometimes these things are not decided on morality. They're decided on far more less lofty concerns. DeSean Jackson is 33 years old. Young man, but advanced athlete age, especially in the National Football League. We'll have to see whether that plays any part in this.
[22:55:08]
LEMON: Yes, it was caught on tape and given a slap on the wrist.
COSTAS: And it's horrendous and it's completely indefensible. Completely indefensible.
LEMON: Yes. You know, it's -- Bob, it's interesting because a lot of what you're saying I said in the open in a very short way. I don't understand, you know, if you don't know what you're talking about, right, again, I don't think you should be saying it on social media.
But you cannot say that you want people to understand that the plight that African-Americans are going through and that people are ignorant about what they say and how they react and then have a different standard for not understanding or having ignorance Jewish trope or something that you don't -- it just -- the two just don't -- it doesn't make sense.
COSTAS: You're right. And just as I hear you say this, this pops into my head. And I hope it doesn't seem impertinent but I think it applies.
Many years ago, I was interviewing the holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel who won the Nobel Peace Prize. And he told me he'd lost members of his family. He was a boy when he went into concentration camp. And he told me about when it was liberated and he could still see the face of the black sergeant, the black sergeant and the look of compassion on his face.
And I thought as I sat there listening to this great man, I thought, well, sure, sure, especially that. When the oppression was even greater than what we're talking about now was more overt. It was under the heading of legality. State-imposed. Of course, this black sergeant could understand, maybe better than anyone he would understand. If -- when you have moral high ground, hold on to it.
LEMON: Yes. Well said. Bob, stick around. Bob is going to be back with us next hour to talk about how the coronavirus is disrupting sports across America.
And just ahead, the U.S. hitting a startling milestone. Now reporting more than three million cases and hospitals are struggling to cope.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
