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Don Lemon Tonight

U.S. Passes Three Million Cases, Virus Spiking In 35 States; President Trump Trashes CDC School-Reopening Guidelines, Threatens To Cut Off Funds If Schools Don't Reopen; Transcripts Of Body Cams Show George Floyd Said 'I Can't Breathe' 20 Times Before He Died; NBA Teams Heading To Orlando For Modified Season Amid Coronavirus Surge; Ivy League Cancels Football And All Other Sports For Fall 2020; Sen. Tammy Duckworth, Who Lost Her Legs Serving In Iraq, Hits Back After Tucker Carlson Suggests She Hates America. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 08, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Just past 11:00 p.m. here on the East Coast. On a night when this country has passed a grim milestone. More than 3 million recorded cases of coronavirus since the pandemic began, and more than 132,000 deaths. And listen to this staggering number. Today alone more than 50,000 new cases reported across the nation. The virus spiking in 35 states.

And what's President Trump doing as the pandemic spirals out of control? Well, he is feuding with Dr. Anthony Fauci and the CDC. Fauci was sidelined from today's press briefing by the White House coronavirus task force and the White House refuses to say if Trump still has confidence in Fauci.

Trump also lashing out at the CDC's guidelines for safely reopening schools. Calling them too tough and expensive. And threatening to cut off funds to schools that don't reopen by the fall. Someone in the White House needs to remind him that the bulk of public school funding comes from state and local governments.

Let's discuss. Dr. Jonathan Reiner is the Director of the Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington University Hospital, and also Craig Spencer is here. He's the Director of Global Health and E.R. medicine at New York Presbyterian Columbia University Medical Center.

So good to have both of you on. Thank you so much. Dr. Reiner, let's start with you because over 3 million coronavirus cases, more than 132,000 deaths in this country, but this president is pretending that this pandemic is over, overruling his medical experts. Dangerous.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION LABORATORY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Yes, super dangerous. It's almost as if he is trying to sabotage the recovery. Look, from the very beginning the president has made the wrong calculus. What he's tried to do is make believe the virus was going to go away. You know, we had 15 cases, it will soon go to zero. When it gets warmer, the virus will go away. Masks -- he didn't see it. He didn't really see the need for it.

He said last week testing is overrated. He urged -- despite the fact that the CDC developed really good guidelines for states opening, he urged the states to open early. Which is why we are where we are now. So, all along the president has had the wrong instinct. His instinct to sort of try and get the public to believe we don't have a problem obviously won't work. We have 130,000 deaths and you can't hide that. So, he's been sticking his head in the sand and the public has been suffering as a result.

LEMON: Dr. Spencer, I want to bring you in, and thanks for joining. We don't see you very often, so I'm glad that you're here. The White House press secretary wouldn't say today if the president has confidence in Dr. Fauci. He was prevented from participating in the task force briefing today. He did it, you know, virtually. Is -- isn't Dr. Fauci the person we need to hear from the most?

DR. CRAIG SPENCER, DR. GLOBAL HEALTH IN E.R. MEDICINE, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Whether it's Dr. Fauci or another public health professional, it's anyone that has a plan that is not really the gut feeling of this administration. What we have been seeing over the past few days is a deliberate undermining of science and a deliberate undermining of public health.

Look what happened today. Dr. Fauci was not at the White House coronavirus task force meeting. You had President Trump and you had the vice president talking about how the CDC guidelines were just too tough. And, again, this is the administration that's supposed to be tough in law and order. I don't quite understand the disconnect.

[23:05:02]

You look at yesterday what happened. The president notified the World Health Organization that we were going to withdraw. In the past 24 hours we have literally shot ourselves in the foot by putting our partisan politics in front of public health at the time when we are having, as you have already pointed out, record number of cases, increasing hospitalizations, increasing deaths in places like Arizona and Texas, all indicators are that we are currently failing and that our response is an abject failure.

LEMON: Dr. Reiner, the president tweeted this morning that all schools should open in the fall. And the CDC guidelines are too tough and expensive. This is what we heard from the CDC Director, Dr. Robert Redfield hours later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL: I want to make it very clear that was not the intent of the CDC's guidelines is to be used as a rationale to keep schools closed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He basically backtracked -- backtracked from his own guidance. Mind-boggling. What's going on here?

REINER: Well, the president bullies his advisers. You know, a real leader encourages contrary opinions. That's how you make meaningful decisions, by encouraging people to speak truth to you. This president doesn't tolerate that. The only person really on that task force who consistently speaks the truth openly is Dr. Anthony Fauci. And for his since, he was banished today.

Look, when it comes to opening in schools, the people who will have the final say are the parents. And unless the parents are convinced that the school environment is going to be safe for their children and then by extension for their family at home, families aren't going to send kids to school. So, the president is wrong if he thinks he can just simply open schools and families will just, you know, flood them with their kids. They need to feel safe. Some parts of the country, they will. But in other parts of the country, I don't think so.

LEMON: Yes.

REINER: There are places where schools can open. And that's really the only way to look at it now.

LEMON: You know, Dr. Spencer, you heard what Dr. Reiner just said. So now the CDC redoing these guidelines. Are you concerned that they're now focusing on what the president wants and not on the facts and the science?

SPENCER: I think that's very clear, right? The public health agency responsible for our national public health response basically told us that public health guidelines should not be used to make public health decisions about when and how we should open up our schools. As Dr. Reiner pointed out, this is going to depend on the parents.

I'm not only a doctor who witnessed the horrors of COVID on the front lines here in New York city, I'm a parent as well, and under no circumstances right now would I feel comfortable sending my kids back to daycare, back to kindergarten, back to schools, knowing that this administration doesn't even have a plan for safely reopening the country, let alone having a plan for safely reopening and putting our kids back in school. It is just too dangerous. It can be done if we had an administration that was focused on public health and not on politics.

LEMON: And trust me, I know from every parent I know, every parent has told me, I want my kid to go back to school. They've got to get out of here. They want it -- they want them to be safe. They want to send them safely.

SPENCER: But if it's safe. Only if it's safe.

LEMON: Yes.

SPENCER: Only when it's safe.

LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it.

I want to get to Erica Hill now with the very latest on states seeing record-high coronavirus cases.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As cases surge across the Sun Belt, the White House task force is advising hot spots to buckle down.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: Is really asking the American people in those counties and in those states to not only use the face coverings, not going to bars, not going to indoor dining, but really not gathering in homes either. And decreasing those gatherings back down to our phase one recommendation, which was 10 or less.

HILL: In less than a month the United States has added a million new cases. Now adding more than 51,000 every day. Former hot spots also seeing new spikes.

GOV. JOHN BEL EDWARDS (D-LA): We have lost all the gains made in June and announcing some numbers that rival our peak back in April.

HILL: As cases climb in Louisiana, New Orleans limiting patrons in bars and restaurants. Mandating masks at all times, unless you're eating or drinking. In Los Angeles, the infection rate also rising. Houston's mayor cancelling the Texas GOP convention scheduled for next week.

MAYOR SYLVESTER TURNER (D), HOUSTON-TX: If you still refuse to recognize the public health danger to everyone involved, then I am still the mayor.

HILL: The city added more than 1,000 new cases on Tuesday, a daily high.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, VACCINE RESEARCHER, DEAN OF THE NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: The cases don't really tell the true tragedy of this, that the patients are piling now into hospitals, into ICUs.

[23:10:05]

HILL: 42 hospital ICUs in Florida are now full. More than 50 have just 10 percent of their beds available. In Miami-Dade County, where the positivity rate just hit 28 percent, the number of patients on ventilators is up more than 100 percent. Arizona has just 145 ICU beds remaining.

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER HEALTH COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE: The best that we can hope for now is to put out these multiple fires around the country and get to a point of a slow burn where there is a steady rate of infections and unfortunately deaths.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These aren't 80-year-olds that should die. These aren't 80-year-olds that were going to die next week. These are 80- year-olds that contracted a virus because a group of people just didn't want to wear a mask and had to go out and have fun. I had a mom and grandmother drive themselves into my hospital and only one drove home.

HILL: Erica Hill, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Erica Hill, thank you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

LEMON: So, breaking news on George Floyd, whose death after an officer kept his knee on his neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds sparked a nationwide reckoning on race and justice. Newly released transcripts and body cam footage show that Floyd told officers more than 20 times that he could not breathe.

The transcripts were released in court by lawyers for Thomas Lane, he is one of the four officers who has been charged. Omar Jimenez has been covering the story since the beginning and he joins me now with this new information. Omar, good evening to you. What can you tell about these transcripts?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, these transcripts detail what led up to George Floyd's final moments? Now, remember, that police were initially called for a fraudulent $20 bill and the transcript seems to shed light on what appears to be an initial struggle of trying to get George Floyd into a police car.

Floyd says he's claustrophobic and that he actually wants to lay down on the ground and that he's going down, and this next excerpt picks things up from where, again, it appears that they are all on the ground there, at least Floyd is where Floyd says I'm through, I'm through, I'm claustrophobic. My stomach hurts. My neck hurts. Everything hurts. Need some water or something. Please, please, I can't breathe, officer.

To which Officer Derek Chauvin, the one seen whose knee on Floyd's neck, then stop talking. Stop yelling. Floyd, you're going to kill me men. Then stop talking. Stop yelling. It takes a heck of a lot of oxygen to talk. Floyd, come on, man. I can't breathe. I cannot breathe. They'll kill me. They'll kill me. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And that was after Floyd had called out for his mom and said that he loved her and at one point even said, and I'm quoting here, tell my kids I love them. I'm dead.

LEMON: So let's talk about how this happened, right? Because Officer Lane's attorneys, I'm sure they're trying to get his part of the case thrown out, right? They're trying to get him off the hook. What are they trying to accomplish by releasing these transcripts? We still don't have the full picture of what happened that day?

JIMENEZ: That's right. We don't have the full picture at this point and it does appear that his attorneys are trying to set him apart from the other officers charged in this. We know even at least the officer, Derek Chauvin, their attorney has already come out and said they have no comment on this in particular.

And when we talk about trying to set them apart, they specifically point to one part of the transcript released where Lane asks Chauvin if they should roll him on his side to which Chauvin says, no, he should stay put, and that's part of what they filed in their motion to dismiss the case today.

Lane's attorneys saying that Lane deferred to the senior officer on the scene, which would have been Chauvin, and I'm quoting the attorney here in the motion that was filed. Chauvin was calmly positioned near Floyd's neck and back area, which gave Lane no reason to believe a crime was being committed. And, again, Chauvin's attorneys officially say no comment, but as far as putting this out, this is a public sort of separation of Lane from the other officers.

LEMON: Yes.

JIMENEZ: As we have seen led by the attorney.

LEMON: Listen, there's -- the body cam footage and the official transcripts, all of it has not been released. Is this litigation through the media, or trying to set a narrative for Lane, as you said, to separate him from -- from this?

JIMENEZ: It appears they are using what they can at this point. There were discussions earlier in the day about, of course, we only have the transcripts. We know that body camera clearly exists, because they're citing from it, but there is discussion about trying to release that actual video. It doesn't appear that the court is ready to do that at this point, though there was some discussion about that happening back and forth.

So, again, with this and having at least Lane's body camera footage out, we already saw the attorney cite from specific portions of that body camera footage in the motion to dismiss the case against his client, Thomas Lane, in this trial.

So we know they're at least strategically trying to put it out there. And based on reporting that even my colleague Josh Campbell had in the very beginning of this, it did seem that that was going to be a direction they were going to try to take, to separate themselves from the officer who is facing more serious charges in this case. That being former officer Derek Chauvin.

LEMON: Omar, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

The outrage over George Floyd's death has prompted one woman to demand answers in the death of her brother in 2017 while Phoenix police were trying to arrest him. Now, as you're about to see here, there are remarkable similarities in the two cases. Including the words I can't breathe. I've got to warn you, the video is graphic. CNN's Drew Griffin has the story now.

[23:20:05] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Muhammad Muhaymin died three years ago, pleading for breath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot breathe.

GRIFFIN: 43 years old, black and homeless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's dead.

GRIFFIN: Most likely you never heard his name.

DAVID CHAMI, FAMILY ATTORNEY: What happened to Muhammad Muhaymin is strikingly similar to what happened to George Floyd. The only difference is in Mr. Floyd's case we had a pedestrian with an iPhone.

GRIFFIN: It took place January 4th, 2017. To the people of Phoenix, it was a local news story, a homeless man on drugs resisting arrest. But CNN has now obtained the raw video from multiple police body cameras, witness statements that describe no threats to police officers and testimony from a famed forensic neuropathologist hired by the family who reviewed the autopsy materials and concluded Muhaymin died from positional asphyxiation, meaning he died because he couldn't breathe. His sister, Mussalina Muhaymin is suing the city of Phoenix.

MUSSALINA MUHAYMIN, BROTHER DIED IN CUSTODY: I don't know how police officers allowed to be judge, jury and executioner. This is -- this wasn't a death penalty situation, right? He wanted to use the bathroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing, officer?

GRIFFIN: It began 9:30 a.m. on a Wednesday. Muhaymin and his Chihuahua named Chiquita were homeless. He needed to use the public restroom. An employee stopped him. No dogs allowed and the police were called.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I'm doing is a natural thing. A natural (inaudible).

GRIFFIN: Muhaymin suffered from schizophrenia and anxiety according to his family. He didn't go anywhere including the bathroom without Chiquita, his emotional support dog. Police finally allow him to use the bathroom, but while Muhaymin was inside, they learned he had a warrant for failure to appear in court for having a marijuana pipe. They prepared to arrest him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, what for?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a warrant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A warrant.

GRIFFIN: Muhaymin begins to panic. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have no one to watch her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll find somebody to watch her.

GRIFFIN: Police pry the dog out of his arms and take him down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, OK, OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the (BEEP) ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground, dude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now you're going to be going for a felony now, dumbass.

GRIFFIN: An officer holding Muhaymin down with a knee to the head as the dog watches. For a few seconds it seems the worst is over. Officers walk Muhaymin to their SUV. He's still handcuffed, still pleading for his dog.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my child, officer.

GRIFFIN: While the officers are trying to frisk him, somehow Muhaymin's cuffed hands that were behind him end up in front.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arms are in front now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot believe this (BEEP).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just relax, dumbass.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the ground. To the ground.

GRIFFIN: Once again Muhaymin ends up on the ground. Once again his head pressed to the pavement by a knee. Other hands and feet hold down his torso, arms, restraints added to his legs. Several officers are now pressing into his body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot breathe!

GRIFFIN: At four different points of the police video he screens I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop moving.

GRIFFIN: Muhaymin vomits, goes limp, appears to stop breathing. At 10:39 a.m., a little more than an hour after he walked into the community center to use a bathroom, he's declared dead. CHAMI: He never swore at them. He never made any aggressive acts

towards them, yet the way they handled him was as if he were a violent felon. And that's simply not the case.

GRIFFIN: In the aftermath, police released shorter clips of the video. The county medical examiner's report called the death a homicide due to cardiac arrest aggravated by psychiatric disease, acute methamphetamine intoxication and physical exertion during law enforcement's subdue (ph). The Maricopa County attorney's office cleared all the officers of any wrongdoing.

MUHAYMIN: They don't see him as a human being, so they didn't treat him as a human being and they killed him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Don, the family is suing the city of Phoenix for $10 million because that's really all they can do, but what they really want is some kind of answers and accountability to what happened to their brother.

LEMON: Wow. Drew, I mean, it's -- your reporting is -- was great on that, but, I mean, just watching that, again, mind-boggling. You said in your report that none of these officers faced any discipline, but has the police department -- what are they saying?

GRIFFIN: You know, because of the lawsuit they said they couldn't really comment on this, other than to say that they're committed to the safety and security of everybody in their community. But, Don, all 10 of those officers that were involved and are named in the lawsuit, all 10 today, three years later, they are all still on the Phoenix police force.

LEMON: To use the bathroom, Drew? That's it.

GRIFFIN: Yep. Yep.

LEMON: Drew Griffin, thank you, sir.

[23:25:00]

So, we talk about these issues on my podcast. And I know I keep, you know, promoting it here, but I really think that you're going to learn from it. Silence is not an option. We're going to -- we discuss all of these issues, conversations about being black in America. So, I'm going to talk with author Jared Yates Sexton. We're going to talk about the toppling of statues as America deals with its history of racism and how far it could go. Listen to this. Here's a -- this is a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the question is, well, where -- where does this end? Where does it stop?

JARED YATES SEXTON, AMERICAN AUTHOR AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would love that if every confederate monument was either toppled or put into a museum. I mean, we're one of the few country that actually honors treasonous traitors who have held people in bondage. I think we need to go back -- and people say now, they are like what about George Washington, what about Thomas Jefferson? I think what it needs to lead to is a conversation about who these people are.

Like, we can put up statues that say that they played an amazing role in the founding of the country, but those statues and memorials should include information that talks about the fact that they were promoting ideas of liberty and freedom while holding human beings in slavery. I think that's how we need to understand the past. In that way we can understand our present and guide us toward the future. As long as we're hiding behind this mythologized history, we have no idea of where we've been, where we are or where we're going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You're going to learn a lot. You have to tune in. You have to download this podcast. The episode drops tomorrow. You can find it on apple podcast or your favorite podcast app.

So, let's talk about coronavirus now. With the coronavirus spreading now, the NBA is planning to resume and what it calls a bubble environment just weeks from now, but will that bubble burst? I'm going to ask Malcolm Brogdon of the Indiana Pacers who dealt with his own bout of coronavirus. That's next.

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: NBA teams and players have begun arriving in Orlando where the league will resume its season later this month. The league is hoping a 'bubble' environment at Walt Disney World will work, but in a virtual press conference held by Fortune, Commissioner Adam Silver, he isn't ruling out the possibility of that 'bubble' bursting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM SILVER, COMMISSIONER, NBA: We won't be surprised when they first come down to Orlando, if we have some additional players that test positive. What would be most concerning is once players enter this campus and then go through our quarantine period, then if they were to test positive or if we have any positive test, we know we would have an issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So joining me now is Indianapolis Pacers player Malcolm Brogdon. Malcolm, I appreciate you joining us. Thank you, sir. Are you doing OK?

MALCOLM BROGDON, NBA PLAYER, INDIANA PACERS: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

LEMON: Yeah. You announced that late last month, that you tested positive for COVID-19-. So it's great that you're feeling better now and you say that you're ready to play when the season resumes in a few weeks, correct?

BROGDON: Absolutely.

LEMON: Yeah. Why is that? Tell me why.

BROGDON: I tested negative twice. I passed the protocol. I'm ready to go to Orlando and compete, resume the season.

LEMON: Yeah. What were your symptoms? What did you experience?

BROGDON: I had very mild symptoms. I had very mild symptoms. But, you know, I'm ready for the season to continue. But, honestly, I think that's the lesser of, you know, what I think is going on now.

I think a lot of people are putting focus on the 'bubble' and this is exactly, you know, why I think people have to continue to, you know, demand more focus on our communities, what's going on in this country. I think that is -- that's the most important thing that's going on right now.

LEMON: Talk to me more about that. You said that people are talking about the 'bubble' and that's the lesser of two. But how do you feel that going back to the game? Does that help? What are you saying here?

BROGDON: Absolutely. I think going back to the game helps. But I think it's the manner in which you do so. I think as for players, I think we have a lot of power. I think we have a huge platform to continue to shed light on the issues that are going on in the country.

I think it's a very common understanding in the NBA amongst players -- I've talked to a lot of them over the past couple weeks -- that basketball is a secondary issue compared to what's going on in our communities and for African Americans right now in this country.

LEMON: The players now seemed more empowered than ever. And the question is, Malcolm, what is -- what is the upcoming season going to look like? Because you're saying, you know, this is important. And I would imagine through your work as a player, right, that somehow you're going to bring attention to this. What does this -- what does this all mean?

BROGDON: This is a -- this is a giant opportunity. This is a moment in time, I think, as NBA players, as people that have influence, people that have platforms and can demand people's attention for the next two months while this season resumes, I think we have an opportunity to shed light. We have an opportunity to bring attention to the police brutality, bring attention to cases like Breonna Taylor, and bring attention to voting.

You know, there are things that need to happen now, but there are things also that we need to bring attention to that need to happen in the future, and voting is one of the things that we need to prepare for and continue to push.

LEMON: So, give me the changes that you want to see. Are there specific changes within the NBA, within professional athletes? What specifically do you want to see? Even beyond that.

[23:35:00]

BROGDON: I think there are changes at every level. I think when you talk about the NBA, there are changes where, you know, I think we need to see minorities, more minorities in the front office, in these high- profile positions, calling a lot more shot, having a lot more -- you know, I think African American players need representation in the front offices.

But I think this goes beyond the NBA. I think the NBA is a microcosm of what's going on today. I think we need representation in the government. I think we need representation, you know, in the presidential office, as well.

LEMON: Are you concerned about potential backlash? You hear people saying, oh, in sports -- you know, you remember the whole shut up and dribble thing, right? But I don't want -- you know, I just want my sports to be sports and I don't want to have to deal with, you know, all of these social issues and so on and so forth. Obviously, I'm playing devil's advocate here. But what do you say to that?

BROGDON: Oh, I say, you know, I think people have to do their research on, you know, the human beings that are in the NBA. Well, we do have -- our job is to perform on the court just like everyone else. Everybody has jobs.

That doesn't mean everybody doesn't have expertise or knowledge or opinions about what is going on and that doesn't mean that people -- that athletes specifically aren't affected by things outside of basketball. So, I think it's -- I think it's ignorant to make that assumption, to say that to a professional athlete.

LEMON: I'm glad that you are feeling better. I am grateful that you came on tonight. You are welcome here any time. Thank you so much and be safe, OK? And be well.

BROGDON: Thank you for having me.

LEMON: Thank you. The coronavirus is causing havoc across the sports world. The Ivy League is now cancelling all college sports for the fall semester. Will other sports follow? That's what I want to know from Bob Costas. And specifically, I want to know about what's going to happen down south in the SEC. We will talk about that next with Bob Costas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, with the coronavirus spreading, the Ivy League is ruling out playing all sports this fall. Wow, look at that. That as professional sports leagues attempt to resume or begin their seasons. Hall of fame sportscaster and CNN contributor Bob Costas is back with me. Bob, thanks for doing a second hit here on the show. Do you expect to see more college sports being postponed or cancelled due to the coronavirus?

BOB COSTAS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, absolutely. Stanford, which is acclaimed for its ability to balance academics and athletics and has a very broad range of athletic teams in high-profile sports like football and basketball but also in swimming and tennis and crew and fencing and all the rest, they just discontinued a whole bunch of sports in anticipation of lost revenues and not knowing what the campus situation is going to be.

You might see in some cases, I guess there's lots of possibilities, you might see, for example, you mentioned the SEC before the break, maybe they would just play conference games, but wouldn't travel out of conference. That's one possibility.

But something you have to look at is if campuses are essentially empty or if they're all learning virtually, there are no students at any of the games. Then isn't it exposed completely as the sham it too often is? What would they be playing for in the case of football or sending out for basketball, except for television money?

How is it part of a collegiate experience if the educational aspect isn't even going on? Whether all the athletes attended or not, at least you can keep up the sham of the campuses operating in normal -- in normal style. But if not, then isn't the whole thing exposed as ridiculous?

LEMON: Yeah, but, you listen, you know -- I was -- I am concerned about that, but, you know, I went to LSU, SEC, that's a religion down there. There's so much money tied up into, especially football and college sports, unlike the Ivy League. I mean, you really think that's a real possibility considering all that dough that's tied up?

COSTAS: Yeah, it might not be possible to play. Remember, these players are not compensated. And I'm not saying that they should be. That's a debate that I think often is discussed too glibly. Oh, everybody makes money except the players. A scholarship, if you're really a student athlete, the full scholarship has tremendous value.

But in this case, it's worth pointing out that these athletes are not compensated. They do not have unions and protection in that way, like professional athletes do. And now you're asking them to mingle amid the COVID-19 situation? I think it's very problematic.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Just moments ago, you saw that I spoke with Indiana Pacers player Malcolm Brogdon, tested positive for COVID, feeling better, as he said, mild symptoms, he's going to play in the NBA restart in just a few weeks. How successful do you think the upcoming NBA and MLB seasons will be?

[23:45:00] COSTAS: Two different things. The NBA just has to complete what they started. They'll play a handful of regular season games before ceding the playoffs and then they'll get right into the playoffs. The 'bubble' is the best possible approach, but as Adam Silver himself admits, it is not fool proof that 'bubble' could burst.

One thing they're going to have to do is make sure that everyone who works in the hotels, the entire hotel staff, is going to have to be within that 'bubble.' Otherwise, you're introducing all kinds of external things that the 'bubble' is designed to keep out. So it's their best bet. Could they do it? Yeah. And I sure hope they can. But I don't think it's 100 percent.

In the case of baseball, even though it's an abbreviated season, they hope to play 60 games before they get to the playoffs. And there is no 'bubble.' No fans. But they're all playing in their home cities. They are returning to their homes. Who knows what can happen.

They've got a 100-page protocol. It is hard to believe that everyone is going to follow every page in that protocol without fail. So, it's a very difficult series of needles to thread. I hope they make it.

LEMON: So, Bob, you know, let's talk about this. I enjoy our conversations when we talk about what's happening in the world, especially, you know, with social issues and race and so on and so forth and the removal of statues and names and all that.

Washington Redskins, Amazon is joining Target and Walmart, announcing that they won't sell merchandise for the franchise. Team owner Dan Snyder has stubbornly refused to change the team's name for years. You have been talking about this for years, even caught some heat for it. Do you think it really happens now, Bob?

COSTAS: Yeah, it happens because of the obvious and overwhelming commercial pressure. But the moral or logical case for it is no different than it was 30 years ago and no different than it was seven years ago when I talked about it on a halftime essay on "Sunday Night Football" on NBC.

And here's what's important here, Don. I am not a fan of runaway political correctness or cancel culture. But you have to be able to make distinctions. And as I said then, there is a clear distinction between redskins and chiefs, braves, warriors.

Get yourself a dictionary. No dictionary defines chiefs, braves, warriors, other such nicknames associated with Native Americans as automatically insulting, derogatory or a slur. But every dictionary defines redskins that way.

And as I said that night, ask yourself, what would be the equivalent of redskins if applied to African Americans, Hispanics, and Asian Americans? What would be the equivalent of that? And if you were starting a franchise today, would you even consider naming them the redskins?

And I stipulated, went out of my way to stipulate that no one is saying that there is intentional insult here or that fans of the team are -- hold any sort of animus toward Native Americans. No one is saying that.

But at the same time, take a step back and consider it on those terms. This should have been gone a long time ago. Now, it will be gone, not because someone saw a light, but because they felt the heat.

LEMON: Bob Costas, telling it like it is. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon. Be well.

COSTAS: Thanks, Don. You also.

LEMON: We'll be back.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: Fox News host Tucker Carlson is at it again, taking a page from President Trump's playbook, the same playbook used by right-wing media, questioning someone's patriotism, this time accusing Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of hating America. The senator is an army vet who lost both legs while serving in Iraq. Here's Brian Stelter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: It's long been considered out of bounds to question a person's patriotism.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yes, and for good reason. But Tucker Carlson keeps doing it.

CARLSON: These people actually hate America.

STELTER (voice-over): Prompting denunciations from Democrats, but cheers from his fans. This latest Fox controversy stems from an interview on CNN with Senator Tammy Duckworth last Sunday.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: There are leaders like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who were slave owners, and some people are demanding that their monuments come down, too. So, in your view, where does it end? Should statues, for example, of George Washington come down?

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Well, let me just say that we should start off by having a national dialogue on it at some point.

STELTER (voice-over): Then, she pivoted and said America has much bigger issues right now like coronavirus. But Carlson decided to pounce.

CARLSON: Can you really lead a country that you hate?

STELTER (voice-over): Duckworth, evidently stunned by the smear, tweeted a reference to her service in Iraq, where she lost both of her legs. Does Tucker Carlson, she said, want to walk a mile in my legs and then tell me whether or not I love America? That was on Monday night.

CARLSON: To morons like Tammy Duckworth.

STELTER (voice-over): Carlson lashed out again on Tuesday.

CARLSON: What a coward, a fraud. She has an obligation to explain herself and answer our questions.

STELTER (voice-over): Shaming Duckworth for declining his interview request because, he said, she wanted him to apologize first. Carlson adheres to President Trump's never apologize playbook. And Trump has been parroting his egregious hate America accusations.

CARLSON: We cannot let them run this nation because they hate it.

[23:55:02]

STELTER (voice-over): The other day, Trump shared Carlson's commentary, and the two men are known to speak in private, too.

CARLSON: Hating America is a major theme in the Democratic Party right now. It's everywhere. Turn the TV.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STELTER: And Trump does. Millions of people watch this every night and watch this toxicity. He and Trump are aligned. They are stoking this divide. You know, what Tucker does, Don, is he says he is the victim, he is the victim of people who are trying to stomp out his free speech. But the real victims are all of us. Whenever you get into this nasty debate about hating America, it should be beneath any cable news host.

LEMON: Brian Stelter, thank you very much. I appreciate it, Brian. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for watching. I am Don Lemon. Our coverage continues.

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