Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Holds First Briefing Since April; U.S. Reported Deaths From Coronavirus Tops 1,000; White House Blocks Stimulus Package; Former Ebola Coordinator Frustrated With POTUS' Handling Of Coronavirus; GOP Lawmaker Accosts Rep. Ocasio-Cortez; MLB Players Knelt In Protest. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 21, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon comes in right now. "Rosy the Riveter" one of the original ones, my brother, she says I just changed my sewing machine, you know, for the rivet gun for the sewing machine and I'm doing the same job. I'm helping my country.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Good for Rosy the Riveter." But those are the people who are keeping this country going.
CUOMO: That's right.
LEMON: And keeping our spirits up.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: Speaking of, how are your spirits?
CUOMO: My head and my heart in a good place. I'm doing better than I deserve.
LEMON: Yes. I'm not going to tell everybody you tried to run me over the other day. That's OK.
CUOMO: That is not true.
LEMON: I wasn't paying attention and I look up.
CUOMO: Boy, you got some nerve.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: If I tell the truth of that situation it is the impression of you that would change. But lucky one of us has integrity and the other is you.
LEMON: So, listen, I watched your interview with Ken Cuccinelli.
CUOMO: Yes. LEMON: It's interesting what's happening because, you know, the state's rights and all that. And I've been watching and paying attention a lot. You know I did the special, we did over an hour on crime in the cities around the country. And we should probably do more.
But it's interesting that people are -- I'm glad that people are starting to pay attention to crime especially in cities like Chicago. But it is sad that they are doing it in a year where they can use it as political cudgel to hurt someone and try to help someone else.
Because crime in those cities -- listen, there's spikes in crime.
CUOMO: True.
LEMON: And there's real work that needs to be done. Right? Things need to be fixed. But there, I lived in Chicago for a while. Every night when I lived in Chicago there was a crime story. A shooting story.
I've been stories at this network about crime for so long. I'm glad people are paying attention to it. But it has been an issue for a long time. And you know what one of the biggest issues is? The availability of guns.
CUOMO: Sure.
LEMON: And you won't hear that from some people.
CUOMO: Sure. Especially in Chicago. Because in Illinois it doesn't matter what the law is, specific to Chicago or the state of Illinois because the surrounding states have different laws.
LEMON: You got it.
CUOMO: So, and look --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Indiana.
CUOMO: New York --
LEMON: Wisconsin.
CUOMO: -- every state is different to deal with that opportunity. You know, demand and supply is always going to rule. And you can't have changed some places and expect it every place.
But the issue that we're playing with here is the president has made it very plain. And it was echoed by the DHS chief. They're talking politics. They're saying we don't like what's happening in the cities. Not to the federal buildings.
They're saying we don't like these cities that are run by Democrats and all these people on the street we'll show them who's boss and they're using these federal troops. Now look, troops are the wrong word. These are federal patrol agents
and other officials that they're using. Troops means military. But it winds up looking the same way, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That they are bringing in federal forces to make a show of force. That veteran that they beat up or tried didn't have anything to do with going after federal building.
LEMON: Right. Yes. You're right. To make a show. Just a show. Just a --
CUOMO: Might makes right.
LEMON: But the machine is kicking in on one side. The media machine and then you have the political machine kicking in on the other side. And the two have come together and that's why you're -- that's why this is happening. People at home show know that.
CUOMO: It is. But in this country, it will always be a fair fight.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You don't get to dictate the narrative here because you're in power.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: The people are in power here. The media works for them. We were, as I said in the Supreme Court during the Pentagon papers, we work for the governed not the governors.
LEMON: Yes. I'm glad you're back. I missed you last night. But not this weekend. Because again, you tried to run over me. Thank you very much, sir. I'll see you soon.
CUOMO: You and the truth have no relationship. I love you.
LEMON: I'm not the only one right now in this country and I'm going to talk about it right now.
CUOMO: You're better than most. You're better than most. I love you, Don Lemon.
LEMON: I love you more. I'll talk to you later.
This is CNN TONIGHT. As he said, I am Don Lemon.
Here's our breaking news. Today's reported deaths from the coronavirus topped 1,000. Today. The deaths. The total newly reported deaths 1,056. And the president with his plummeting poll numbers weighing on him right now more than the rising death tolls appeared to be actually seemed to acknowledge just how bad things are. He did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It will probably unfortunately get worse before it gets better. Something I don't like saying about things but that's the way it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We have all seen these numbers go up and up and up every single day. We've seen the map. There it is. Look at that thing. We've all seen the death toll. More and more Americans dying of this virus every single day. And we have all seen this president talking and tweeting about anything but the virus.
But the fact that he actually talked about it tonight that is a good thing. Mark your calendar. As I said, that is a good thing.
[22:05:01]
But one day of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and still spreading lies and misinformation does not undo the months and months of reckless negligence. And what we heard from him tonight, you've to wonder which president is the real one? Is it the one who says he carries a mask, a mask and would gladly use it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I do. I actually do it when I need. I mean, I carry the mask. When I have to go -- I went into Walter Reed Hospital the other day. I have the mask right here. I carry it. And I will use it gladly. No problem with it. And I've said that. And I say if you can use the mask when you can use the mask. If you are close to each other. If you're in a group I would put it on when I'm in a group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Which president is it? Is it that one? Or is the president who just yesterday tweeted a photo of himself wearing a mask then went to an indoor fundraiser just last night at his own hotel. Look at your screen. Any mask there? Nope. Not wearing a mask. There he is. Looks like he's close to -- pretty close to me. To some of those folks.
Or is it the president who said this. The very day he announced the CDC's recommendation to wear masks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Somehow sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful Resolute desk. The great Resolute desk. I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens. I don't know. Somehow, I don't see it for myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Is it the president who says wearing a mask can help?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I view it this way. Anything that potentially can help and that certainly can potentially help is a good thing. I have no problem. I carry it. I wear it. You saw me wearing it a number of times and I'll continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Or is it the president who held a mask free rally in Tulsa, a rally where stickers meant to enforce social distancing were removed. There you go. Removed from seats according to the Washington Post. Where multiple staffers and Secret Service agents tested positive for the virus. Cases were on the rise in Tulsa before the president's rally in June. And have continued to spike. A local health official said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE DART, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TULSA HEALTH DEPARTMENT: The past two days we've had almost 500 cases. We knew we had several large events over two weeks ago which is about right. So, I guess, we just connect the dots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Which is the real president? Is this the president who said he didn't want to see masks at sporting events, who said he didn't want to give reporters a pleasure of seeing him in a mask or who mocked a reporter for wearing a mask?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We really want to see it get back to normal. So, when you have all of those tens of thousands of people going to your majors and going to golf tournaments. We want them to have that same experience. We don't want them to be having to wear masks.
Well, I did wear. I had one on before. I wore one in this back area. But I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. But I had it in the back area.
Can you take it off? Because I cannot hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll just speak louder, sir.
TRUMP: OK. Because you want to be politically correct. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir. I just want to wear the mask.
TRUMP: Go ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And that is exactly the kind of talk that set off a fire storm of people refusing to wear masks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You literally cannot mandate somebody to wear a mask knowing that that mask is killing people. It literally is killing people. And my -- the people, we, the people are waking up. And we know what citizen's arrest is.
Because citizens arrests are already happening. OK? And every single one of you that are obeying the devil's laws are go to be arrested. And you, doctor, are going to be arrested for crimes against humanity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The problem with humanity today is ignorance, arrogance, and apathy. Keep taking the road of least resisting. Keep listening to the T.V. brainwashing you from birth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they want to throw God's wonderful breathing system out the door. You're all turning your backs on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really have many question marks about your degrees and what you really know. I'm sorry, ma'am, but I don't think that you are worthy of your credentials. And I would ask suggestively that you go back to school and get educated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. There you go. Which is the real president? The one who tells Americans to stay safe and stay away from crowded bars?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're instead asking Americans to use masks, socially distance, and employ vigorous hygiene. Wash your hands every chance you get while sheltering high risk populations.
[22:10:02]
We are imploring young Americans to avoid packed bars and other crowded indoor gatherings. Be safe and be smart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Or is it the one who held a crowded rally at Mount Rushmore over the Fourth of July weekend? This president who hadn't held a coronavirus briefing since April gave a briefing today without having been briefed himself by the person America trusts the most on the virus. He hasn't even talked to Dr. Fauci, the man he called an alarmist since last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I consider myself more a realist than an alarmist. but, you know, people do have their opinions other than that. I -- I've always thought of myself as a realist when it comes to this.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Like I said, one day of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons doesn't undo months of neglect. Remember when the president said this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'd love to have it open by Easter. OK?
HARRIS FAULKNER, FOX NEWS, HOST: Wow, OK.
TRUMP: I would love to have it open by Easter. I will tell you that right now. I would love to have that. It's such an important day for other reasons. But I'll make it important day for this too. I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Everybody knew just how risky that would be. But the president gave it his stamp of approval. Because he thought churches full of people on Easter Sunday would make him look good. So he encourage people to go back to church. Ignoring the risk. While some churches put health first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR ANDY, LEAD PASTOR, NORTH POINT COMMUNITY CHURCH: We want to love our neighbors. We want to be a good neighbor and we want to love our neighborhoods and we're for our communities and we don't want to accidently do something to our communities. And you understand. Your viewers understand this.
We have to go to the grocery store. We have to go to the drugstore. We have to go to work. We don't have to go to church.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And remember how he praised the governor of Florida?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look at what's going on in Florida. It's incredible. The job the governor of Florida has done it's incredible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It is incredible, all right. Hospitalizations in Florida have risen by more than a third in just the past week and a half. More than 5,000 people in the state have died of the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNARD ASHBY, CARDIOLOGIST: Hospitals are overwhelmed at this point. The ICUs are over capacity. My hospital in particular is at capacity. We're doing piecemeal approaches to try to reduce the virus transmission but it's not nearly enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I asked which is the real President Trump? Well, four years ago tonight, Donald Trump gave his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention. And a lot of that was a preview of where we are right now. The candidate who said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am the law and order candidate.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Is now the president who under the guise of law and order gasses peaceful protestors so he can have his photo-op holding a bible in front of St. Johns Church. Who sends federal law enforcement to put down protests in America's cities. Even when their mayors and governors say go home.
The candidate who promised to build a wall to keep out immigrants is still talking about, still talking about it four years later. Even though he's only built about three miles of new wall. And no, Mexico is not paying. You are. But the man who said this four years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I, alone can fix it.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, he sure hasn't fixed the virus that has killed nearly 142,000 Americans. And one day of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons won't fix that.
You heard the president said he gladly wear a mask. But what if he said that four months ago? Would things be different? Kaitlan Collins, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, both here to talk about it. They're next.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight's reported deaths from the coronavirus have topped 1,000 for the first time in two weeks. Nearly 3.9 million Americans have been infected. And after months, well President Trump is finally acknowledging that this pandemic is going to get worse.
So, joining me now is CNN's White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Good evening to both of you.
Kaitlan, I'm kind of confused I said in the open I'm not sure which president is which. And he's recommending or not recommending, but at least he is finally admitting that this pandemic is going to get worse before it gets better. Didn't offer a plan on how he's going to handle the crisis, though.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No. And I've seen some people referring to is as a shift in tone for the president. But I don't really know if you can call it a shift in tone when for the last two weeks and the last month really, he's largely ignored what's been going on inside the country.
He has not acknowledged the surge in cases, what's going on with hospitalizations, and now what we're seeing with this death rate being the highest reported cases today -- highest reported deaths today than it has been in two weeks.
He has not report -- he has not responded to that. He has not commented on that until today. The last time he really talked about coronavirus was over two weeks ago when he did that event on reopening schools.
So, what the president did today is what really advisers have been begging him to do which is -- which is just to acknowledge what's going on throughout the country. And the concern and the reason that was really been driving force behind the president doing this, Don, was these poll numbers he was looking at that were showing that the way he was responding to coronavirus was really hurting his reelection chances.
[22:19:58]
LEMON: Dr. Gupta, I have to ask you, I mean, today I watched the president talk about wearing masks, advocate for somewhat -- somewhat advocating for it. And I kept thinking to myself what was so hard about that?
Because if we saw this president do this months ago, advocating for social distancing and masks. Do you think the country would be in a much different place right now?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think so. Absolutely, Don. I mean, if you look at countries that have really been able to dramatically bring down the curve of overall infections, what did they have? What did they that we didn't have? They did basic things here. These are called non-pharmaceutical interventions, NPIs. Hand washing, physical distancing, and mask.
And you just reminded, there's a study that came out today that said if you get a significant portion of the country doing that, you can dramatically control a pandemic.
And by the way, this will sort of boggle your mind, Don. But what does it mean to actually say we have is contained? We don't even barely talk about that term anymore. We always talk about trying to slow it down and trying to mitigate it.
But the goal is always containment of this virus. That's one in one million people new infections per day. So that would be 350 roughly infections per day in the United States. That sounds preposterous considering we're over 60,000. But that's what the goal should have been and it could have been achieved by those basic non-pharmaceutical interventions.
LEMON: Science. Right? But I do have to say, Dr. Gupta, the president was more realistic than usual today. But he still claimed that the virus would disappear. Please give us reality about that.
GUPTA: Yes. You know, it's one of these things where when the novel coronavirus first came out, we didn't really know how contagious this was going to be. You remember SARS back in 2003. Ultimately, that was also coronavirus. Ultimately, that infected 8,000 people around the world and about 800 people died. And then it sort of, withered away because it wasn't that contagious.
I think, really since the beginning middle of February we've known that this was very contagious and likely to become what they call endemic. Sort of root itself in various communities around the world. So, it's unlikely to go away until we develop a significant amount of immunity on the planet.
And Don, that's going to take years even with the vaccine. That is still going to take a long time to get to that point. So, it's not just going to go away on its own by any means.
LEMON: Yes. Kaitlan, the president also seems to backed down from cutting funding for coronavirus testing. What's the latest on that?
COLLINS: Yes. This will be interesting to see what the treasury secretary and those who are actually negotiating these talks on Capitol Hill say about this.
Because what infuriated Republicans over the weekend was that they had had this draft proposal what they wanted to see in this next relief bill, this next coronavirus relief bill and the White House moved to block the funding that they wanted to go to states for testing and to go -- money to go to the CDC.
They said, basically there was enough money in testing that they didn't need to be more. It's a really difficult argument for the White House to make given how we are seeing what's going on with testing throughout the nation but that's what they put forward.
And so, the president kind of backed off of that today and the White House keeps saying they want to see targeted funding for testing, though they're not really being explicit about what that means. I mean, we've got a long way to go before they come to -- come to any kind of agreement, not only just between the White House and Republicans but then they've got to negotiate with Democrats. So, we'll just wait to see what actually comes out in the wash out of all of this.
LEMON: It's interesting when it comes to the story, anyone of the questions that I asked you guys before it could have been the lead story and the lead question the president saying that this is going to get worse before it gets better. Advocating for social distancing. Being more realistic today than usual about it going away. And then backing down on funding.
But listen to this. I mean, this was surprising to me, Sanjay. New CDC data says that the number of case -- cases -- says that the number of cases in some parts of the U.S. maybe 10 times the number reported? Doesn't that show just how badly we need the funding for testing?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, we have been behind on testing since the beginning. As we talk about, Kaitlan, I've talked about that the last month of February. What happened during that month? Well, the virus spread a lot during that month and it was going largely unnoticed because we weren't testing. And that's why you need a lot more testing now.
People -- the president often says look, we're doing more testing than any other country. That's true. But the thing is we have a lot more virus in this country as well and we're not even capturing, as you just pointed out, 10 percent of it.
What struck me today, Don, I was talking to some sources, testing if it's done right, you're supposed to be able to bring down the case counts. You find people you isolate them, you prevent them from spreading it you eventually get your arms around this thing.
The way testing is being used now because we have so little of it is essentially to identify fires around the country. Right? We keep saying Arizona is now a hot spot. Texas. Florida. Georgia. We're just identifying hot spots so we can like, go rush there with the extinguishers and try and put out the fire.
LEMON: Whack a mole.
GUPTA: But that is not how you get ahead of a problem. Yes, it's like a whack a mole, exactly.
[22:24:59]
LEMON: Yes. Wow. Thank you both. I appreciate it. Have a good evening. Good to see both of you.
President Trump trying to show you that he is taking the virus seriously now months later as he tanks in the polls. But will his new messages last or will he undermine it as he so often does?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The U.S. seeing more than 1,000 new coronavirus deaths today as President Trump holds his first coronavirus briefing since April. The president advising Americans to wear a mask although he didn't wear one at the briefing.
So, let's discuss now. Ron Klain is here. He is a former White House Ebola response coordinator. Ron, good to see you again. Thank you so much for coming in and doing this. We appreciate it.
RON KLAIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE EBOLA RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Thanks for having me, Don. LEMON: The president admitting the virus will get worse before it gets better and encouraging people to wear masks, socially distance. Yet he had no medical experts around him. What did you make of this version of President Trump?
KLAIN: Well, Don, I think at this point I don't really care about the stage crap. I don't care about who he had next to him or his tone, right, those things. The question is we need to act as a country. We need a national testing strategy.
[22:30:01]
We needed one since January. When we had an alert that this was coming, we still don't have one. People are still taking six, eight, ten, days to get tests back. That's useless for managing the disease as Dr. Gupta explained in your last segment.
We did a national contact tracing strategy. The president did nothing on that to say, hey, we're going to take this testing data, we're going to find chain to transmission, we're going to isolate it. No announcement on that today.
We need to kind of get the gear our hospitals need. Things to protect our healthcare workers. We need a national strategy on how and when to reopen businesses, on how and when do we open schools. We got none of that from the president today.
We did get a positive word about masks, long overdue. We did get some positive words about social distancing. Things we've known for months. But on the things that the president alone could act on still nothing today.
LEMON: Well, long overdue. I would say it's, I mean, I hope it's not too late. But I mean, it's pretty far into this to be telling people it's time to wear a mask.
But Ron, didn't he say we're going to come up with a strategy or something like that. I'm paraphrasing. It's like, what has been happening all of these months?
KLAIN: Yes, you know, Don, I think the president keeps promising -- you know, like Wimpy from Popeye, you know, Tuesday, Tuesday, Tuesday, you know, that there will be a testing strategy soon and there'll be other things soon. There will be treatment soon, so on and so forth.
But we are now six months into this. You know, six months into the first really strong alarms coming up in January. Five months after doctor (Inaudible) of the president's own administration said this is going to be a significant event in the United States. This life disrupting event in the United States.
And so promising action tomorrow just shouldn't cut it anymore. I mean, it's long overdue. We're approaching 150,000 deaths in the next few days.
LEMON: Yes. KLAIN: And so, to say now we're going to have strategies when it's way too late. And secondly, there's no reason to believe those promises now any more than when those promises were made in March. I mean, March 6 the president said anyone who wants a test can get one.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Can get a test. Yes.
KLAIN: It is going to be August 6 soon. That is still not true.
LEMON: Amazing and true what you just said. Well, let's talk about the reason some people are calling it a change in tone. Kaitlan Collins said she didn't really think it was a change in tone.
Well the coronavirus has taken a political toll on the president. Right? CNN -- CNN's poll of poll shows that Joe Biden is up 12 points nationally. You know, who you advise by the way.
KLAIN: Yes.
LEMON: Is that why we're seeing this change in tone? Or so-called change in tone?
KLAIN: I assume so, Don. I mean, obviously the president wasn't going to take the virus seriously as the deaths mounted and as the cases mounted, as people were crying on him to do so. As we see Europe. I mean those of you, you watch TV from Europe you see things in Europe, they're basically able to go back to life as normal even though they have the same crisis we had in March.
The president ignored all of that. I presume it's the polling that now has the president talking better. But talking better isn't going to save lives. Yes, some good messages on masks. Well hopefully start to save lives.
Yes, some good message. But what we really need is action and leadership and a plan. We should have had it six months ago. We should have it five months ago, four months ago, three months ago. We still don't have it today. That's what's really missing.
LEMON: But Ron, I mean, you have known Donald Trump before at least of him and his reputation. Right? That's kind of promise, promise, promise, promise. Keep moving. Keep moving. Keep moving. Keep making promises. Maybe it's part of the real estate development world that he's in you know.
You got the I promise you're going to have the best view. I promise you that building is going to come down. I promise you your view is never going to change. I promise you this is going to the best apartment. I promise you that you're going to double your money. And I promise, I promise, I promise.
And this president once again on that note trying to blame the Obama administration while playing off his own response. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The governors are working very, very hard. And we are supporting them 100 percent. Everything they need they get. And we are taking good care. We have tremendous supplies and a great supply chain. Whether it's ventilators or gowns or just about anything they need. So that's a big difference from inheriting very, very empty cupboards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, the empty -- I'm tired of saying this.
KLAIN: Yes.
LEMON: The empty cupboards thing is completely untrue. But also, let's remember it was President Trump who pushed governors to reopen their states quickly. Would we even be in the situation if he hadn't downplayed this problem?
KLAIN: No. I mean, we certainly would be at much better shape if the president hadn't in January and February downplayed this problem. The president hadn't hoped that he could wish it away. He promised it would disappear like a miracle. That's what he said in February and he's repeated that again. Even today he said it will just go away. It will just disappear eventually.
[22:35:01]
That's not a plan, that's not an action. And even that statement forget about the lie about the Obama administration. Let's go to more specific lie in that statement that he's giving the governors whatever they want. Well, that's just not true. And it's not just Democratic governors who say that.
The Republicans of Maryland, Larry Hogan, published a piece last week where he made it very clear that he is not getting what he needs from the Trump administration. That's in public and on the record for a Republican governor.
So, the president has failed to deliver what our country needs what our governors needs. He can try to blame it on Obama from three years or whatever. He is the president. He needs to take responsibility. Most importantly, he needs to fix what's still broken.
LEMON: And interesting position for you to be in right now. But Italy announcing today it is out of the storm. We saw how bad the situation was there early on. And if you look at new cases in Italy compared to the U.S., Italy is just a blip. Even compared to the entire European Union. We're surging. And it's a similar story with death. Italy now near zero. White the U.S. is actually trending up. Why aren't we were Italy is now, Ron?
KLAIN: I think there are three big reasons where we are. First, we have this period in January and February. Sanjay just referred to it. This period where Trump tried to ignore the disease. Europe was getting ready for the crisis. They were ready when it hit. They got behind it first but they were preparing in January and February. Trump was tweeting in January and February.
Second, European countries had a national response. All of Italy. All of France. President Trump from the start didn't want to own this. He asked each state to do it on their own. That's not enough. That doesn't work. People move between the states.
You can't have a situation where Florida is quarantining New York. New York is quarantining Florida. It's craziness. That's what we did here. And third, the president politicized these issues.
Glad to see him talking about mask wearing now. But back two months ago he was making fun of people for wearing masks. He belittled a White House reporter for wearing a mask. He was telling people, you know, mask was a right for him.
So, all these things became very political in our country because of the president polarizing them. Whereas in European countries they had a public health response for people coming together and addressing the issues. Those three big mistakes President Trump led to in this country. Very different approach in Europe.
LEMON: He reportedly said that people who wear masks he believed was against him. And that's why they were wearing the mask.
KLAIN: Yes.
LEMON: Interesting. Thank you, Ron Klain. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
KLAIN: Thanks, Don. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: A GOP lawmaker reportedly making crass remarks aimed at Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez over her stance on policing and crime. I'm going to talk to the reporter who overheard their conversation on the capitol steps.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight, we're learning about a heated and nasty confrontation between two members of Congress on the steps of the capitol. The Hill is reporting that Florida Republican Ted Yoho verbally accosted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York Democrat, for suggesting poverty and unemployment are behind spiking crime in New York City during the pandemic. Yoho reportedly -- reportedly used vulgar language during the exchange.
Let's discuss now with Mike Lillis. He is the congressional reporter for The Hill. Mike, thank you so much. I appreciate you doing this.
MIKE LILLIS, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE HILL: Of course. Thanks for having me, Don.
LEMON: So, you witnessed this. What did you overhear? LILLIS: You know, it was one of those issues welcome back to
Washington. Right? They have been gone for two weeks and everybody is back. And they're talking to each other which is certainly not uncommon. And what I saw was I was outside of the capitol and I saw Ms. Ocasio-Cortez going up the steps into the capitol for a vote yesterday morning.
And coming down the steps same set of steps was Mr. Yoho along with Roger Williams. He is a Texas Republican. And Mr. Yoho approached Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, again not unusual. But then it became very clear after just a few moments that this was not a cordial discussion.
Now Mr. Yoho had some real issues with Ms. Ocasio-Cortez's position on police reform, crime, criminal justice. And specifically, as you mention, her position that the police should be defunded and that the kind of the root of the spike in crime in New York is unemployment, is poverty. It is a lack of funding for social programs.
And he really, you know, he really kind of went after her and he said that she was disgusting for holding that position. That she was way out of the line. She took offend -- you know, she is no stranger to attacks from the right. And so, she took offense and said that he was being rude. And that was kind of the end of it in terms of the face to face.
She went up to go vote, he went -- he turned around took a couple steps down, meaning towards me on the street. And as he was coming down that's when he said the really harsh things. I want to make clear that I don't think that she heard them. And it was not directed at her. Although it was certainly a reference to her. And that is what has ruffled a lot of feathers over the last 24 hours.
LEMON: OK. So, here's what Representative Yoho's office, it's denying that he made the comments saying instead that he, quote, "made a brief comment to himself as he walked away summarizing what he believes are policies to be -- and her -- and he believes her policies to be bullshit." But that's not what you heard.
LILLIS: That's not what I heard. That is not what he said. That statement is certainly correct.
LEMON: Yes.
LILLIS: In saying that he did not use that language directly to her face. But if you read the statement carefully, they're sort of splitting hairs there.
[22:45:02]
LEMON: OK.
LILLIS: They're trying to say that he did not make that statement directly to her face. They also changed the language that he used and kind of softened it to be as --
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Kind of softened it. OK. So, listen, because everybody at home
is wondering. I've been trying -- you know, I get in trouble so much. So, I'll let you but you if you don't say -- as best as you can say on television, what was the language he used. What did he say? According to you.
LILLIS: Effing b.
LEMON: OK. And you're sure that's what you heard, right?
LILLIS: Positive.
LEMON: Positive OK.
LILLIS: A 1,000 percent.
LEMON: So, Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez confirmed that the confrontation happened in a tweet this morning where she writes. Quote, "I never spoke to Representative Yoho before and decided to -- he decided to accost me on the steps of the nation's capital yesterday. Believe it or not I usually get along fine with my GOP colleagues. We know how to check our legislative sparring at the committee door. But, hey, you know what. B's get stuff done."
So that was her response to it. All right. Thank you, Mike. Good luck.
LILLIS: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
LEMON: Be safe in D.C.
LILLIS: Thanks. I appreciate it.
LEMON: Yes.
LILLIS: Be safe up there.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
I want to make sure that you know about my new podcast. We talk about all these issues. Silence is Not an Option it's called. And I take on the tough conversations about race in America. About being black in America. And you can find it on Apple podcast or your favorite podcast app.
So, more athletes kneeling in protest of racial injustice as sports slowly pick back up. Including players of the Cincinnati Reds. Will there be a tide the president can ignore?
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Kneeling protests over racial justice issues spreading today. Cincinnati Reds players including star first baseman Joey Votto kneeling during the national anthem before their game begins to Detroit Tigers. And after a number of baseball players knelt before the start of games
yesterday, President Trump tweeting, of course tweeting, looking forward to live sports but any time I witness a player kneeling during the national anthem, a sign of great disrespect for our country and our flag. The game is over for me.
Let's discuss with Malcolm Jenkins, an NFL player for the New Orleans Saints, and founder of the Malcolm Jenkins Foundation. Sir. good to see you. Thank you very much.
MALCOLM JENKINS, NFL PLAYER, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: Don, I appreciate you having me.
LEMON: So, President Trump still trying to use this issue as a wedge issue. The kneeling protests have never been about disrespecting the flag. He's not getting the point despite everything that has happened in the last two, three years.
JENKINS: Well, he understands the point of this point, but he's choosing to ignore it. I think anybody who's looking to use sports, especially this year, as an outlet to kind of get away from what's happening right now in our country, is probably going to be sadly mistaken especially as we move towards the fall.
And it's been exciting for me to see sports like the MLB, like the NBA, even NASCAR getting involved and adding to the social commentary. But it's really inspiring to see players and athletes like Maya Moore who gave up her whole WNBA career to fight for someone who is wrongly convicted, Kenny Stills and Tobias Harris, who are putting a lot of pressure on the attorney general Daniel Cameron to make an arrest and arrest those the murderers of Breonna Taylor.
So, I think there's a lot of movement. Obviously, with all the social unrest, and I don't think it's going anywhere, regardless of what the sport is.
LEMON: I want to -- let's put this up. Because this is, as you mentioned, you mentioned Tobias Harris. Right? Used his media availability yesterday to call for the arrest of the officers involved in Breonna Taylor's death.
Texas receiver Kenny Stills as well. We do have the video for that. It was in question three if you guys were wondering where it is. He was recently arrested while protesting outside the Kentucky A.G.'s home. Do you think athletes now have a greater understanding of the power of their platforms?
JENKINS: A hundred percent. And I think they're starting to activate that. You know, it's been a while since Swin Cash and the WNBA players wore t-shirts. That turned into LeBron James, was turned into Colin Kaepernick. And that was about four years ago.
And I think after those examples, players are starting to see that we have the ability to draw attention to these issues but also put pressure on those who need to make the change. And I think, you know, what Kenny Stills is doing and Tobias Harris, specifically calling out Daniel Cameron by name, and putting that pressure on him is focusing that effort to action.
So, it's beyond kind of just the protests and the demonstration, but actually moving to something that's actionable.
LEMON: I want to put this up as well. Because this is what the manager for the San Francisco Giants said about President Trump's comments, OK? It said, I don't see it as disrespect at all. I see nothing more American than standing up for what you believe in. I see nothing more patriotic than peaceful protests when things are frustrating and upsetting.
And finally, there's nobody that should make us stop doing the right thing. It doesn't matter what leader -- what the leader says or what leader says that they've -- they're not going to be following a game. What matters most is that we're unwavering in trying to do what is right.
[22:54:57]
So that is his response. I mean, he is not afraid at all to address the president's attacks. What do you think? Besides me needing my glasses and I couldn't find them on the table here. Go on. Sorry.
JENKINS: I think all of these athletes should just be bold and continue to speak out and speak truth to power. Because it's going to be -- they're going to try to use, you know, these demonstrations as ways to discredit the movement or distract people away from what the real facts are.
And the fact is that people want change in this country. We want to change the disparities in our criminal justice system. We want to change how we do policing. We want better education. All these things that we've been fighting for are starting to get the attention and the air and I don't think athletes or sports will allow anybody to derail that or be distracted from that topic.
LEMON: And I think on top of that, you have COVID, because athletes are concerned not only about what's happening with race in this country, they're concerned about COVID as well. I mean, it's really a double hit here.
JENKINS: Yes, I mean, it's nerve racking. Not only, you know, are we dealing with this just in our own families and communities, but as we get ready to try to go back to sports and whatever that looks like without fans and trying to create protocols with different, you know, sports -- you got the NBA in a bubble, the MLB is trying to -- you know, they've got some cases and games getting canceled, and the NFL gearing up.
It's still in negotiations trying to figure out how do we not only start the season, but actually try to get through it. You know, there's a lot of tension, obviously, a lot of things that are at the top of mind for athletes.
LEMON: Malcolm, thank you. Be well.
JENKINS: Don, thank you.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
