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Don Lemon Tonight

Republican National Convention in Florida Cancelled by Trump; No Sign of Coronavirus Cases Slowing Down in U.S; MLB Players Kneeled During National Anthem; Peter Hotez Says Everything Went Awry on Managing the Coronavirus Pandemic; President Trump Blames His Predecessor for Crime Rate; Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) Accosted by a House Colleague. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired July 23, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: And we can control it but we have to be willing to play ball. Yes, we are using baseball metaphors tonight. I think it works. What does that mean? Wear a mask. You just have to.

Look, if your community doesn't have case spread, I'm not talking to you. But there are too few of those these days. All right. So, we got to get together, we got to play ball, wear a mask and demand more from those in power. We need to have a plan.

It's time for CNN Tonight with the man, D. Lemon. I'm not laughing at Tony Fauci.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Do not laugh -- did you hear me? Could you hear me? I'm like, come on, don't laugh. He's -- look, America needs a home run right now when it comes to everything. We can use a home run on everything.

CUOMO: Nobody is hitting a home run off that pitch. Looked like 50 (Ph).

LEMON: Let's put it up again. Let's put it up again. Let's put it up again. Fauci, Fauci. Come on.

CUOMO: What the hell.

LEMON: That's hard to do. Don't laugh. Have you ever done that, Chris?

CUOMO: What, that, he just did? No, never.

LEMON: We've done a lot of things. We haven't played baseball or softball.

CUOMO: I can throw a ball.

LEMON: Yes, right. I've seen those arms.

CUOMO: Listen.

LEMON: Those scrawny arms. CUOMO: Listen, he's 79 years -- now they're all mad at me. I'm getting

it in my ear.

LEMON: I know.

CUOMO: I love Tony Fauci. OK. He's a good man. He does his job hard. He works hard, he works long. I've known him for many, many decades. OK?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But, listen, he's working too hard with that pitch.

LEMON: OK, listen --

CUOMO: I'm sure he laughed, too. He had the mask on. You couldn't see.

LEMON: Imagine how you have to be sort of self-effacing to do something like that, right? You have to be able to -- he doesn't take himself that seriously, even though he is the top epidemiologist, I think in the world. And so, doing that, you never know how that's going to go. You may get out there, you may get nervous. Who knows? The wind could be blowing. I'm trying to give him an excuse for his --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Listen, God bless. I hope at that age I can even walk up to a mound, let alone what he did. Listen.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what I like.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I like that he did it.

LEMON: That's what I mean.

CUOMO: One, I like that America is recognizing a scientist as a hero.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: We need a lot more of that to kind of prize our thinkers and our writers and our scientists and our STEM people, you know what I mean?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: We shouldn't just be Hollywood, you know, and big athletes. It's great to see that heroized. And I like it now. Some people will criticize and say, what is this mission accomplished? Please, he's not the president, OK? But it's nice to show that we're all in it, he's fighting for us and we give him a little shine. I like it.

LEMON: Yes. I'll let you say that just because you laughed at him, now you're trying to make it up.

CUOMO: No, no, the pitch was terrible. I'll tell him myself.

LEMON: Dr. Fauci, blame him, and if I were you, I wouldn't appear on his show -- I would come on my show.

CUOMO: Blame your rotator cuff.

LEMON: Thank you. Hey, listen, he did a great job. And there's someone who is not doing a great job and trying to blame it, actually, sometimes on Dr. Fauci. So, let's get to it.

CUOMO: That's right.

LEMON: Yes, sir. All right. I'll see you soon.

CUOMO: Love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: You too, man. More than you know. I'll see you soon.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

And what we're seeing tonight is the President of the United States in retreat. That's right, retreat. Beaten by the coronavirus. You know why? He played politics with the virus. Everyone told him not to. He did it anyway. And the virus is winning. And that's because of the choices this president has made.

But tonight, he is finally being forced to face reality. The reality of a virus that has surged past four million cases today. He is being forced to back down. He's cancelling the big finale of the Republican convention in Jacksonville. My word. No cheering crowds. No in-person acceptance speech.

Can you imagine for someone who loves the spotlight as much as him, the reality TV show president, how that feels? Well, they said not in a hotspot, not in a dangerous hotspot where cases are soaring.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I looked at my team and I said, the timing for this event is not right. It's just not right with what's happened recently, the flare up in Florida. To have a big convention, it's not the right time. It's really something that for me I have to protect the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Where did that come from? Sad that sagging polling numbers had to make him -- force him to face reality. A source is telling CNN that the president was worried, of course, about sparse attendance at the convention and was watching closely as multiple Republicans said that they wouldn't go or were considering not going.

Another source says cancelling was presented to the president as a chance to show leadership. Can I stop it there just for a second? A chance to show leadership? Come on. Leadership?

[22:05:06]

A chance to show leadership? The president has had a chance every second of every minute of every day of this crisis. Not only for this crisis, of his entire presidency. That is literally his job description. His job description is to lead the country.

A convention official is telling CNN that the whole thing is, quote, "a multimillion-dollar debacle." And think of where all of that money could have gone, right? That money could have gone to fighting this virus. Instead, the president is pulling the plug and he is throwing the RNC into chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We'll have a very nice something. We'll figure it out. It will be -- it will be online in some form. Maybe it will be something even a little bit different. We have time. You, we're talking about the end of August. But I think it will be something that will be exciting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Smarter minds have been saying that forever. Not the time to have a bunch of people crowded into a room. Remember that rally he held in Tulsa? Going to Florida in the middle of a hotspot. A lot of people have said maybe the convention should be virtual this time. Nope. I don't like it. I'm going to move it. I'm going to go to Florida because they won't let me have my convention. And now look what's happening. Is that leadership?

A leader would have known that before. Would not have had to relent and retreat now. What a defeat for the president, the president who first insisted on having his convention in North Carolina, demanding that the state's Democratic governor allow a full House of thousands and thousands of delegates cramped together in the middle of a pandemic.

When Governor Roy Cooper said the convention would have to be scaled back, the president took his ball and his bat and he moved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The governor's a little backward there. He's a little bit behind. And, unfortunately, we're going to probably be having no choice but to move the Republican convention to another location.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: If they had done that in the first place, he wouldn't be retreating now. Even two weeks ago he was still bashing North Carolina's governor for putting the safety of his people ahead of the president's petulant demands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: When we signed in Jacksonville, and, again, we wanted to be in

North Carolina. That almost worked out, but the governor didn't want to have people use the arena, essentially. And we sort of -- too bad -- too bad for North Carolina.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That was July 7th. This is July 23rd. Now he's had to change. Too bad for North Carolina? Too bad for a state that is putting the lives of its people ahead of the president's convention demands? And the president, again, still complaining tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We went to North Carolina. We wanted to do it there. It was all set and we were going to build a beautiful facility and it got hit hard, and the governor then really, he could have treated us better. Democrat governor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I'm confused. I don't even know -- I mean, listen, if you are out there and -- do you understand what -- does it even make sense? He's saying it's a Democratic governor -- Democrat -- it should be Democratic, people. Instead of Democrat. That's not proper grammar. It's all because of a, quote, "Democrat governor." It's just one excuse after the other. Instead, I screwed up. I tried to pretend that it wasn't real. I was -- I played politics with it.

That is -- that's the answer. That is the truth. Spinning now. Spinning. Spinning. How do I spin this? That is what's happening. Why is he still complaining about North Carolina hours after he took credit for doing same thing? You see what I mean? It doesn't make sense. Spinning, spinning, spinning.

That tells you everything that you need to know about just how big this defeat is for him. Can you imagine the person who just sucks in those crowds? Mexico is going to pay for the wall. Not true. We're building the wall. No, you're building replacement fence, for the most part.

This, that -- yes, cheer, cheer, cheer, and he can't get it. Can you imagine how that feels? I said the virus is winning. And that's because of the choices this president has made. It is his own making -- of his own making. He made this bed.

[22:09:59]

The country passing another grim milestone just tonight. And doing it in record time. More than four million cases of coronavirus tonight. That total going up faster and faster and faster since January 21st. When the first known case was reported and the president, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's one person. Coming in from China. And we have it under control. It's going to be just fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And tonight, we are seeing the results of this president's failures and me neglect. Just trying to wish the virus away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Fifteen people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That's a pretty good job we've done.

We had a lot of people were saying maybe just don't do anything, just ride it. Ride it like a cowboy. Ride it. Ride that sucker right through.

You know it is going away and it will go away, and we're going to have a great victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Empty promise after empty promise. That's what he's doing. Making empty promise after promise. Blaming testing for the surge in cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Anybody that wants a test can get a test.

Now we have tested almost 40 million people. By so doing, we showcases 99 percent of which are totally harmless.

If we didn't do testing, instead of testing over 40 million people, if we did half the testing, we'd have half the cases. If we did another -- you cut that in half, we'd have, yet again, half of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes? We're in the middle of a heatwave here on the East Coast, but I guess if we didn't have thermometers and measure the temperature, it wouldn't be so hot. That's his logic. That's the logic of Trump apologists. If we didn't test so much, we wouldn't have so many cases. What? Dumb.

Encouraging Americans to take an unproven drug, even taking that drug himself, though there is another new study out just today it finds hydroxychloroquine does not help coronavirus patients. Let me repeat that. Another new study just out today, it finds that hydroxychloroquine does not help coronavirus patients and may lead to unusual heart rhythms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The FDA also gave emergency authorization for hydroxychloroquine.

And I say it, what do you have to lose? I'll say it again, what do you have to lose? Take it. It will be wonderful. It will be so beautiful. It will be a gift from heaven if it works.

And the other thing that we bought a tremendous amount of is the hydroxychloroquine. Hydroxychloroquine. Which I think, as you know, it's a great malaria drug. It's worked unbelievably. It's a powerful drug on malaria. And there are signs that it works on this, some very strong signs.

I take a pill every day. At some point I'll stop. What I'd like to do is I'd like to have the cure and/or the vaccine, and that will happen, I think, very soon.

I get a lot of to calls about it. The only negative I've heard was the study where they gave it -- was it the V.A. with, you know, people that aren't big Trump fans.

Many doctors are in favor of it. Many frontline workers won't go there unless they have the hydroxy.

But hydroxy has had tremendous, if you look at it, tremendous rave reviews.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And there may be no worse failure than the moment where the President of the United States said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do, either through the skin or -- in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll get the right folks who could.

TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets on the lungs --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Every time I play it, I try not to laugh at that because this is so serious. But it is just outrageous. It is such a ridiculous thing that he said that. Even tonight he is still trying to downplay this virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The country is in very good shape, other than if you look south and west. Some problems. That will all work out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:15:04]

LEMON: Other than south -- other than the south and the west. And other than the 144,000 Americans who did not have to die.

And with all of this in, in the wake of his failures on the virus with his ignominious defeat on holding his convention in Jacksonville, you've got to wonder what the president thought of Dr. Anthony Fauci who threw out the first pitch for the Washington Nationals baseball. Baseball's virus delayed opening today.

A game that began with every single -- he didn't do so bad -- it began with every single member of the Nationals and the New York Yankees -- look at that. Can you believe that? Look at that, people. Look at your screens.

Every single member of the Nationals and the Yankees taking a knee during the national anthem -- I wonder if he's going to call them SOBs -- Taking a knee during the national anthem, which the president may get to see in person. We'll see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Randy Levine is a great friend of mine from the Yankees and he asked me to throw out the first pitch. And I think I'm doing that on August 15th at Yankee Stadium.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: See that one. And then he took to the White House Lawn, along with Yankees legend Mario -- Mariano Rivera to meet with little leaguers. Still not a mask in sight. Does that look like social distancing to you?

You saw those Yankees and those National players taking a knee before tonight's game, OK? There's a lot more to the fight against racial injustice in this country. I'm tackling those tough conversations about being black in America on my new podcast, Silence is Not an Option.

You have to listen to this one because my special guest this episode is NBA legend and activist Kareem Abdul Jabbar. You want to hear from him. It's on Apple podcasts and your favorite podcast app.

So, back to the business at hand. The president scraps the big finale of his convention in Jacksonville over coronavirus concerns, but he is still pushing to reopen schools. When is he going to face the reality on that?

Kaitlan Collins, Dana Bash, they'll discuss. We will, next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The president cancelling plans to hold the Republican convention, the Republican convention activities in Jacksonville, Florida. Just weeks ago, he was playing up the big crowds, but today he says he needs to keep our country safe.

Joining me now, CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.

So good so see both of you. Thank you for joining this evening.

Kaitlan, you first. There is no other way to say it. This is a massive about-face by the president. This is a 180, and it comes after he has struggled to hold the biggest events and rallies that he -- that he always talks about. I mentioned that in the open. He really wants to be at those rallies, and now he's not even going to get the convention thing he wanted.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's so striking to see that within an eight-week period the president went from moving the convention in North Carolina because the restrictions that the governor wanted, he said, were too strict, those health precautions. And he's cancelling the one in Florida because he says the risks there are too high given the level of cases that they've seen.

Tonight, in that interview on Fox, Don, he said he feels like he has this moral obligation to not put a bunch of people into a crowded room. He said that. And it's just notable because, you know, it wasn't that long ago that the president was holding rallies in Tulsa. He had that big event in Phoenix where there were people, about 3,000 people in one room not wearing masks, all cheering and chanting the president's name.

But this decision that he made does seem to come in line with what he's been, you know, acknowledging reluctantly this week, which is that this virus is here, it's here to stay for now and it is going to seriously impact what's happening in November. And he's seen so far how it's already affected his standing with voters. I mean, that poll came out today that said 62 percent of people, of voters in Florida did not feel like August was a good time for him to have the convention there.

LEMON: It's interesting. And he has all of these misguided people around the country now saying I don't want to wear a mask. You're destroying my personal freedom and liberties, Dana. This was very important to him, not wearing masks. I know he's saying, you know, he's always for it, but that is not the truth, and we have the video to back it up.

But what are your sources telling you about how he came to this decision? This was an important one for him. This was big for him.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Making it very, very hard, for all the reasons we know, especially those Kaitlan just laid out. And what I'm told is that two top officials at the RNC and at his campaign went to him within the past 24 hours and said, you know, here are the options.

They had already limited the number of people on the biggest night that they would have at that convention to 7,000 people, which isn't that much for -- even for any, you know, regular Trump event, never mind a convention. And that was the whole point of Trump wanting to have this big event, so that he could --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Dana, that's not the story that he told at the podium today.

BASH: Right. Well, I'm telling you what happened.

LEMON: You're telling us the truth.

BASH: I'm telling you what happened, according to -- to the sources that we're speaking to. So that was number one. But I'm told that he was -- it was explained to him that he's -- he can go forward with that option b, which is the one that he took, which is cancel it and go out and make it about leadership.

[22:25:06]

And then he followed that up with this interview he did tonight, Kaitlan was talking about, about morality.

Now, you know, this is where we have the neon fact check sign. Leadership and morality are things that are very wonderful to have as qualities when you're president in a pandemic. They just aren't the things that were top of mind for him when he was planning all of this, never mind, as Kaitlan said, the Tulsa rally and everything else that led up to today. And the reason why he is doing this is because of his sinking poll numbers.

LEMON: Yes.

BASH: And his sinking poll numbers because of the coronavirus. I mentioned this earlier, he has been told that his opponent in this election is the virus, not Joe Biden. And it was very clear by the 180 that he did today that he sees that the virus is winning.

LEMON: Interesting. That is an interesting way to put it, Dana. His opponent is the virus and that is the thing that he needs to take care of. Instead of hitting Joe Biden.

BASH: Well, he's doing both --

LEMON: Yes, yes.

BASH: -- but this is, first thing's first right now. It's overshadowing everything.

LEMON: That's important. Got it. Got it.

Kaitlan, listen, the president fought with the governor of North Carolina about this exact same type of judgement call he is now been force to make. His chief of staff Mark Meadows call cancelling one of the most difficult decisions any president or politician might have to make. But didn't Joe Biden make the call weeks ago and there was no drama with it? He just said, I'm making this call, we're not doing it.

COLLINS: Yes, that convention, the Democratic convention in Milwaukee went from being thousands of people to just I think about 300 people now. And it's still not clear, you know, what the end result of that is going to look like. That's a lot different than what the president was doing.

But you also have to consider that not everyone was behind the president's idea here. There were a lot of officials in the Republican Party, and especially in Florida who did not want this to happen because they were worried about the repercussions of it.

They were having trouble even making money -- even fund-raising money for it because they basically spent all the money they allocated for the convention in North Carolina. They could not get that back when the president decided he wanted to move it because he didn't want people to be wearing masks and socially distance. And so then they decided to move to Florida.

And so, this is actually good news, happy news for the people in Florida, the Republican Party in Florida, because they did not want this to go forward anyway. So, it's not like the president had a ton of people around him saying that this was a good idea.

I think officials are relieved that they finally got him to come to this decision. I think it's interesting to call it, you know, one of the most difficult decisions of a presidency. I don't think that many people would agree with that, given what's going on, the pandemic that's happening in the country. There are much more difficult decisions to make about things like that. But I do think officials are relieved that resident has called this off.

BASH: And if I could just add to that, Don, you mentioned North Carolina. One of the things that I was told today that people were worried about is that this was quickly becoming another Charlotte situation with people on the ground becoming increasingly uncomfortable. And not just uncomfortable, outspoken. The elected sheriff in Jacksonville said publicly this week that he doesn't think it's a good idea.

LEMON: Yes.

BASH: Once that happened, that was a tipping point, I'm told, because he, again, is elected. He's got a lot to lose if the constituents there back the president on this and not him and it turns out it was the sheriff who was right and not the president.

LEMON: That was the best answer I think tonight in a while, I needed that, was, yes, but I'm telling you the truth. I love that, Dana. It's simple and to the point. Thank you, Kaitlan. I'll see you guys soon.

BASH: Bye, Don.

LEMON: Coronavirus cases in the U.S. topping four million today and the rate of increase is getting faster and faster. Just ahead, a top scientist with his plans on how to get out of this.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: The United States topping four million coronavirus cases today. Four million. That means we added one million cases in this country in just 15 days.

Let discuss now. Dr. Peter Hotez is a vaccine scientist and professor and dean of tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. And he joins us now. Doctor, thanks for joining us. I really appreciate it.

PETER HOTEZ, INFECTIOUS EXPERT, BAYLOR UNIVERSITY: Thanks for having us.

LEMON: It took 99 days to reach one million cases in this country, and just 15 days to go from three to four million. Despite what this president says, this isn't about testing, is it?

HOTEZ: No, we know it's not about testing. This epidemic is dramatically accelerating, and we know that because it's not just the substantial increased number of cases, especially across the Southern United States, but it's increases in hospitalizations, it's increases in intensive care unit admissions and now the deaths are coming.

Yesterday we had 200 deaths in the state of Texas from COVID-19. Which -- which is a record for us. Same with California. So, across the southern states right now, COVID-19 is becoming, if it isn't already, the leading cause of death on a daily basis in these southern states.

And so, we're spiraling out of control and we now need to take measures to get our arms around. This is the plan or whatever they're doing, in terms of the national level, simply has failed and we have to recognize that because now (technical difficulty) security were forcing teachers to go to schools where there's high levels of community transmission, knowing they're going to get sick. It's unacceptable.

We've got to protect our teachers. We've got to protect our hospital workers. We've got to protect our most vulnerable. And by the way, people living in poverty are getting especially hit hard. If you look at the list of people on a daily basis now, for instance, in Houston, the city of Houston puts out, not their names, but buts out their age and race and ethnicity of the people who have perished in this COVID- 19 epidemic.

Every day, Don, it's Hispanic, Hispanic, Hispanic, black, black, Hispanic, Hispanic, Hispanic. We've got to stop this. This is -- we are better than this as a nation.

[22:35:00]

LEMON: I hope people are listening to you. You are absolutely right, doctor. This rise in cases, I mean, it's alarming, but you say there is a way to get this virus under control by October. What do we need to do?

HOTEZ: Well, you know, European nations have done this, Canada has done this, we can do it, too, it just requires political will. We have to get every state in the country on the same level. The same level of what I call containment. Which has different definitions. Some defined it as one new case per million residents per day. Other is one prevalent case per million residents a day. You get to that low level. And then at that point, we can safely reopen schools and colleges. Maybe even have real sporting events.

And then the contact tracing works. You can't do contact tracing when you've got 5,000 new cases a day in a city -- in the city. It's simply not feasible. And then we do all these things to put mask and do all the things we should've done originally to bring us down to that containment label. And we can then have a good life again in the fall. Not completely normal, not perfect, but far better than anything we are going through right now.

LEMON: Yes. You know, you mentioned a little bit, you talked about schools. The CDC's new guidelines on schools says that the best available evidence indicates that COVID-19 poses relatively low risks to school aged children. But what about the adults these kids come into contact with?

HOTEZ: Yes. That was about one of the most tone-deaf documents I've read out of the CDC in a long time -

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You know why, doctor, I want to ask you that because I know someone whose child has coronavirus and the doctor told her that she should just assume that she has it as well. And I think the child got it from, you know, a caregiver or what have you.

HOTEZ: Yes.

LEMON: But she should just assume that she has it as well. The child probably passed it on to her.

HOTEZ: Yes. Look, I mean, the document -- most of the documents were reminding us why the schools are important. And we get that. Right? We know the educational benefits. We also know that schools in low income neighborhoods are important for food security. We know that mental health counseling for adolescents.

The American Academy of Pediatrics came out with that document. Nobody disputes that. And that's what was most of the document is about. The tone deaf in this are the piece missing was to say, OK, we can do that in Maine, in New Hampshire where they are already getting down to that really low level.

But how do you ask teachers and bus drivers to come into the workplace exposed to huge amounts of virus? Not only from the kids, but from the vendors from all the adults picking up kids. Knowing that school teachers within two weeks are going to get infected.

Eventually, there will be school teachers going to the hospital. I mean, I don't know about you, Don, but I still remember the time when a school teacher died when I was a kid in the school. I mean, that was very traumatic. And that will happen over and over again if we force schools to open in these areas of high transmission. It's simply not doable.

The problems we're making, the teachers pay the price of what the White House won't do, which is the hard work of getting us back down to containment mode. And that is doable. And then we can ask students (Ph) to go back to schools.

LEMON: Yes.

HOTEZ: And the staff will not until then.

LEMON: Well, I hope, again, I'll say it, I hope people are listening to you, doctor. Thank you so much. I'll see you soon. I appreciate your expertise and coming on tonight.

HOTEZ: Thanks -- thanks you so much. I really appreciate it.

LEMON: President Trump trying to blame former President Barack Obama for a crime surge in Chicago as he promises to send federal officers to multiple American cities. What is the former Attorney General, Eric Holder, have to say about that? There he is. He joins me after the break.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The president lashing out today at former President Barack Obama, claiming that he, Trump wouldn't be in the Oval Office if it wasn't for what he calls the terrible job of the Obama administration. This tweet coming after Joe Biden released more of his sit-down conversation with former President Barack Obama who went after President Trump's handling of the coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have confidence that you are actually going to listen to the experts.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

OBAMA: And you are going to pay attention to the science. And you're not going to quit on trying to actually bend down the curve of disease and transmission rates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, let's discuss now with the former U.S. attorney general under President Barack Obama, Mr. Eric Holder. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. I appreciate you joining us this evening.

Joe Biden today --

ERIC HOLDER, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: Good to see you.

LEMON: -- addressing President Trump's false claims that voting by mail is rife with fraud. Biden saying this at a fund-raiser. He said, this president is going to try to indirectly steal the election by arguing that mail-in ballots don't work. They're not real. They're not fair.

How big of a risk is there to that? And could this president successfully undermine the election by going with that?

HOLDER: I think he certainly going to try to. And he's in the process of trying to potentially delegitimize the result of the election hearing that he is going to lose. And so, he wants to say things that are just factually inaccurate. Like there's a whole bunch of fraud connected with voting by mail. Which I prefer to call it voting at home, by the way.

LEMON: Right.

HOLDER: All the studies show that there is no indication of increased amounts of fraud. It does increase turnout and that I think is something that is significant. If we don't a robust vote by mail program this November, you are going to force American citizens to decide between their health and their civic responsibility. And that is simply not the way in which we ought to conduct this important, this existential election this November.

LEMON: So, let's talk about the crime that's happening and how the president is using what's going on. This is happening as the president announces a surge of federal officers to Democratic led cities, like Portland, Chicago.

[22:45:06]

And he told Sean Hannity he is ready to send 50, 60, 75,000 feds into American cities to fight crime. And then he said this. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are going to all other cities, any of the cities. We have to be invited in. At some point --

(CROSSTALK)

SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS: Mr. President I want to ask you about that.

TRUMP: -- we're going to have to do something that is much stronger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, what do you make of that?

HOLDER: Well, it's interesting, what he just said there. We have to be invited in. If that's an indication that he is looking to have some kind of cooperation with state and local authorities, and use federal resources in an inappropriate way, as we did in the Obama administration, I think that's fine. But what we have seen in Portland is inconsistent with the way in

which the federal government traditionally operates in cities and doing local -- local law enforcement. I mean, you have there a situation where federal agents, in unmarked uniforms, and unmarked vehicles, were taking people off the streets, taking them back apparently to federal buildings, holding them for a little while, and then letting them go.

They don't have the due process right to take these people off the street. They are, I guess, detaining them, not arresting them. Again, you are putting at risk the reputation of people in federal law enforcement, and you are essentially abrogating the rights of American citizens by the way in which they are deploying these federal resources. This is -- this is unconstitutional. And beyond that, it's pretty -- it's pretty scary.

LEMON: Let's talk about the attorney general and what he said about George Floyd. His reaction to, he is calling the reaction to George Floyd's killing extreme. This was yesterday. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: We had that terrible event in Minneapolis, but then we had this extreme reaction that has demonized police and called for the defunding of police departments. And what we have seen then is a significant increase and violent crime in many cities. And this rise is a direct result of the attack on the police forces, and the weakening of police forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The reaction to George Floyd's death, extreme?

HOLDER: No. The reaction by the entirety of this nation, and that's what people need to understand. This isn't just people of color who are on the streets. These are white folks as well. Really shocked by what they saw during that 8-minute long tape. The reaction was totally appropriate. And it raised a whole bunch of questions beyond just what are we going to do with the criminal justice system.

It really raised questions about racial injustice more broadly. And so, I think that the reaction has been not extreme. It has been appropriate. We have American citizens doing what we do best here in the United States of America, galvanizing, organizing, and demanding that the changes be made.

We have to remember, that's how this nation was born. When we decided to protest, to take to the streets against those across the ocean from England, who were in control of the nation, that's how this nation was born. A revolutionary movement. And so, what we see in the streets today, I think it's consistent with that great tradition and appropriate, not extreme, appropriate.

LEMON: And also protected in the Constitution under the first amendment. But listen, President Trump blaming -- I've been wanting to talk to you about this and I mentioned it early. President Trump blaming President Obama for crime in Chicago. This is what he said yesterday y when CNN pressed him as to why he claimed back in 2016 that Obama did nothing to reduce crime there. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: President Obama was invited in, and he did a poor job. President Obama could have gone into Chicago. He could have solved the problem, and he didn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He didn't really explain why it wasn't his fault this time, but it was Obama's fault. How do you respond to that?

HOLDER: You know, it's interesting to hear him talk as if he is almost a candidate, and saying I'm going to do certain things. He's been president of the United States for three and a half years at this point. And so if there are problems in our society, whether it was crime rates or anything else, there is a lot of blame that has to be put on this administration and on this president.

One thing I'll say about what we did during the Obama years, for the first time in 40 years, was reduce the size of the federal prison population. At the same time, we reduced crime rates. Not only hotspots around the country. And Chicago has been one, has been a problem of long-standing. During the Bush years, during the Clinton years, and something need obviously to be done there.

But deploying resources there without cooperation with or not synchronizing with the local authorities there is simply not the way to go.

LEMON: Thank you, Mr. Holder, Mr. Attorney General. It's good to see you. Be safe.

HOLDER: All right. You be safe as well.

LEMON: Thank you. We'll be right back.

[22:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, this is what it sounds like when someone doesn't accept your apology. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the freshman New York Democrat, taking to the floor of the House today, slamming Florida Republican Congressman Ted Yoho for reportedly using vulgar words against her after a heated exchange on the capitol steps this week, during which a reporter overheard him call her, well, she will tell you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Representative Yoho put his

finger in my face. He called me disgusting. He called me crazy. He called me out of my mind. And in front of reporters, Representative Yoho called, me and I quote, (muted) bitch. These are the words that Representative Yoho levied against a congresswoman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:55:07]

LEMON: Yoho responding to Ocasio-Cortez with a statement, insisting he didn't say those vulgar words. No one was accosted, bullied, or attacked. This was a brief policy discussion, plain and simple. And we have our differences. We are both passionate members of Congress and equals. The fact still remains I'm not going to apologize for something I didn't say.

Except there was a witness to that exchange, I had him on the show and he says that he absolutely heard it. Calling a congresswoman an f-ing b word. That wouldn't quality as a policy discussion, even in the Trump era.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:59:59]

LEMON: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon, 11 p.m. here on the East Coast.

Today marks a grim milestone in the worst in coronavirus pandemic in the United States.