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Don Lemon Tonight

The President Claims Virus Will Just Go Away As U.S. Gets Closer To Five Million Cases; A Number Of Students Quarantined After Several People Test Positive In A School District; President Trump Claims That Mail-In Voting Would Be A Disaster And Lead To Fraud; Distrust In Science Widespread In America; Trump Convention Speech Possibly In The White House; Kanye West Getting Help From Republicans On His Presidential Bid. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired August 05, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. You know what time it is. "CNN TONIGHT" with Laura Coates, the upgrade for D. Lemon, who is probably swilling rose.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: And probably doing it fabulously, I might add. Meanwhile, I'm freezing in a studio, shivering with a cup of hot water, but it's OK, it's OK. It's fine. You know, I'm not going to complain about it. You know, I'm just loving your life lessons and it's always so nice to hear people be so reflective and introspective, and especially for you to touch on things, because I know matter to so many people.

And I got to tell you, it's what I needed to hear to calm myself down from that Brittany Gilliam interview you had. Let me tell you, I have a 6-year-old. My blood was boiling. This cold air conditioning is probably a good thing right now.

CUOMO: But I'll tell you, you know, switching the mom hat out for the prosecutor hat, the idea of a circumstance that warrants putting a 6- year-old child on the ground with guns drawn around them, when, when is that ever OK except in, like a human trafficking case when you've heard that maybe they're putting explosives on kids or something like that? When is it ever OK to do that?

COATES: Your question must be rhetorical from what we saw. It's never OK.

CUOMO: Never, right?

COATES: It can't be OK. It never should be OK. But, you know what? That case is important. I'm glad that you are talking about it. We'll stick with it. Thank you so much, Chris.

CUOMO: Have a good night.

COATES: Thank you. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Laura Coates in for Don Lemon. You know,

we're getting closer and closer tonight to five million, five million cases of the coronavirus in this country. More than 158,000 Americans have died. And this from the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going away. No, it will go away. Like things go away. Absolutely. No question in my mind it will go away. Please, go ahead. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I thought we had learned this lesson. Remember when the president said this way back in, was it February?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: By April, you know, in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: It wasn't true then. It wasn't true in April. And it's not true now in August. More than 1,000 Americans have died since yesterday. And then there's his dangerous and cavalier attitude about sending America's children back to classrooms while the virus is raging. Repeating his bogus claim that children are somehow immune to this virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you look at children, I mean, they're able to throw it off very easily, and it's an amazing thing because some flus, they don't. They get very sick and they have problems with flus and they have problems with other things, but for whatever reason, the China virus, children handle it very well. And they may get it, but they get it and it doesn't have much of an impact on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, I am looking at the children, mine in particular and everyone else's children, and the president keeps repeating this false claim over and over. I mean, he did it this morning on Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you look at children, children are almost -- and I would almost say definitely, but almost immune from this disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: No, they're not. And Facebook actually removed a post on the president's page of that interview, saying this video includes false claims that a group of people is immune from COVID-19, which is a violation of our policies around harmful COVID misinformation. Twitter restricting the president's campaign from tweeting after its

account shared the video, saying it is in violation of the Twitter rules on COVID-19 misinformation. And that COVID misinformation is coming straight from the president of the United States. A source telling CNN he, quote, still doesn't get it when it comes to the virus.

I want to bring in CNN's White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond and Dr. Amesh Adalja who is an infectious disease specialist and senior scholar at John Hopkins Center for Health Security. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Let me start with you; Jeremy, because you know, the president continues to repeat the claim that the virus will just go away. At this point, it's hard to look at that and not see it as a real dereliction of duty, is it not?

[23:05:00]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, it's certainly reflective of where his head is at, Laura, and it's reflective to where his head has been during most of this pandemic, frankly. You know, just today, my colleague Jim Acosta reported that during the coronavirus task force meeting that the president had yesterday in the Oval Office, the president just didn't seem to get it.

That he didn't seem to want to accept the seriousness of the situation, and that has been consistent with my reporting and other people's reporting throughout this pandemic, which is to say that the president has repeatedly, you know, experts have repeatedly tried to impress upon him the seriousness of this pandemic.

But the president always seems to revert to his knee-jerk position, which is a position where he is defensive, where he is trying to spin and where he is trying to essentially explain -- explain things away and try and sell a rosier version of the truth than what actually is happening. And it is notable, though, that it is still happening in this very moment because of the number of Americans who continue to die every day, but also because of the fact that public health experts are speaking with one voice.

It was Dr. Anthony Fauci who said just this week that this virus will not disappear, as the president said. And Dr. Deborah Birx over the weekend describing this as a new phase of the pandemic, making very clear that this virus is extraordinarily widespread. None of that is in sync with what the president is now saying.

COATES: No. And none of it's in sync with those of us who are on planet earth right now, and this idea of having to continuously ask questions about whether the sky is blue for him is very odd. Dr. Adalja, you know, over 100 students are right now quarantining after several people tested positive in a Mississippi school district, but I want to play what the president is saying about kids and the coronavirus. Listen to this, doctor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm talking about from getting very sick. If you look at children, I mean, they're able to throw it off very easily. They may get it, but they get it and it doesn't have much of an impact on them. And if you look at the numbers, the numbers of in terms of mortality, fatality, the numbers for children under a certain age, meaning young, their immune systems are very, very strong, they're very powerful, and they seem to be able to handle it very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: OK. So facts first here. Children are less likely to get seriously ill or die, but they can both contract and they can transmit the virus. Are we about to conduct some giant experiment with all of our nation's children and what does that mean for the rest of us?

AMESH ADALJA, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Definitely is going to be challenging to open schools in areas where the outbreak is not controlled, and it's not surprising that you're hearing about students being quarantined and exposures happening. That's going to be the new normal.

If you're in a new place where your outbreak, maybe your percent positivity is above 5 percent, this is going to continually disrupt the school year. It's going to be an added risk that you have to deal with and schools are not prepared to do it in many parts of the country.

There are some that are, but in general, if your outbreak is out of control, it's not going to be very easy to have school and children may spread this virus to other individuals and you're going to have teachers and other individuals fearful about going into a school if the outbreak is not controlled in the community.

COATES: Jeremy, Dr. Adalja, thank you so much, I appreciate hearing from both of you.

You know, also tonight, President Trump is pushing his unproven claim that mail-in voting leads to mass fraud.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They send out millions of ballots, millions of ballots. They're totally unprepared to do it. And then they come back in the millions. It's going to be a disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Joining me now, Ellen Weintraub, she's the commissioner of the Federal Election Commission. Glad to have you and your wisdom here today, commissioner. You know, the president is claiming without any evidence, without any evidence that mail-in voting leads to fraud. Can you give us the facts? I mean, how do you make sure that these ballots are secure?

ELLEN WEINTRAUB, COMMISSIONER, FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION: Well, election officials really, they have been doing this for years. The military has been voting by mail since the civil war, and there are several states that do pretty much full vote by mail. So they've -- they've got a routine for this. They've figured this out. They have tracking numbers. That they can track the ballots. They check signatures to verify that they're getting the right ballots from the right person.

In fact, some people are concerned that they throw out too many ballots. That people who are doing the signature matches may be overly scrupulous and are discarding too many ballots, not that we are getting in a bunch of fraudulent ballots. And people have studied this issue of voter fraud, both in general and specifically with respect to mail.

And it is so rare. That only a smattering of cases over decades of voting involving billions of votes where anybody's been able to find any evidence that fraud actually took place. And that makes sense because it's a criminal violation, and most people, in my experience, don't actually want to go to jail.

[23:10:03]

COATES: In my experience either. And, of course, even in the voting section where I am a proud alum in this wise decision, you know, the idea of widespread fraud would be news to people there as well. But commissioner, I mean, the president is actually suing Nevada right now over its new bill that expands mail-in voting, but he says it's OK in Florida, it's OK in Arizona, two states that just happen to have Republican Governors and elderly voters that he needs. It's an obvious double standard to anyone listening, anyone hearing. Is this really all about politics?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I'm not going to try to get into the president's head and figure out why he says what he says, but the Nevada law is similar to about seven other states that have the exact same system, and, again, there's -- there's really no -- there are these distinctions being made between absentee ballots and mail-in ballots that really don't hold up.

COATES: They don't, and yet we still have these same statements coming out there. But y, we have to wait and see how this, you know, evolves over time. Commissioner, thank you for being with us tonight and giving us the facts. I appreciate it.

WEINTRAUB: My pleasure.

COATES: Speaking of facts, Dr. Anthony Fauci is telling CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta that his family is being harassed and even getting death threats. Sanjay joins us with that and much more of their conversation, including why he thinks anti-science bias is rampant now in this country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

COATES: Unlike President Trump, Dr. Anthony Fauci telling the stark truth about the coronavirus. Saying the U.S. has suffered as much or worse than anyone during this pandemic. That as he tells CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta that he and his family have received death threats for what he said about the virus.

And Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now. Sanjay, it's good to see you here. It's surprising he's receiving these death threats. I mean, it's been a hard enough time for Dr. Fauci grappling with the virus and let alone the politics of it and now death threats. I mean, what a shame.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. No question. I got to tell you, Laura, I've been interviewing. I've known Dr. Fauci for a long time, 20 years. Talked about a variety of topics. He was one of the first people I ever interviewed when I became a journalist. This was surprising to me.

You know, he's 79 years old. The question I was asking was just about his overall health and how tired he was and, you know, did he still have the same energy. That's what I was sort of driving at, but clearly, you know, there's been a lot going on behind the scenes, not just with him, but with his family. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: We both have wives and three daughters. How's Christine doing with all this? Has she -- has she worried about you? Has she suggested that maybe you pull back at all?

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALERGY AND INFECTOUS DISEASE: Well, she doesn't suggest I pull back. She's fine. The girls are fine. They're geographically distributed. They're young women now and have their own jobs and their own professions. They're in three separate cities, so I miss seeing them.

The only stress I think more on the children. Chris is a rock. She's my anchor. Is the really unseemly things that crises bring out in the world? You know, it brings out the best of people and the worst of people. And, you know, getting death threats for me and my family and harassing my daughters to the point where I have to get security is just, I mean, it's amazing.

I wouldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams that people who object to things that are pure public health principles are so set against it and don't like what you and I say, namely in the word of science, that they actually threaten you. I mean, that, to me, is just strange. So other than that, which they're handling well, I wish that they did not have to go through that.

GUPTA: Well, I'm sorry that you're going through that and your daughters and Christine. I know it can't be easy. Dean Williams referred to this war on science, Dr. Fauci. We're going to talk a little bit about that, but you are the face of science for so many right now, not just here in the United States but around the world. But I am sorry that you're going through that.

There just -- there isn't an excuse for that. We have a public health crisis through which you're helping us navigate ourselves. And let's get do that. I want to show this animation here of what's been going on in the world with regard to COVID in several countries around the world. You get an idea if you look at this timetable, obviously things

started off in China. Where in the middle of March there. And then the United States just sort of takes over there. Dr. Fauci, as you can see it, you can see in this graphic, this will take us up to August 5th. As Dean Williams sort of asked, how did we get here?

FAUCI: You know, as he also said, it's such a complicated situation, Sanjay, of how we got here. First of all, we got hit really hard by an historic pandemic that has characteristics that make it very difficult, even under the best of circumstances, to respond adequately. And that is an outbreak of a virus that has extraordinary, unprecedented capability of transmitting efficiently from human to human.

You know, when viruses jump from an animal host to a human, as we've seen with the original SARS, which we were able to contain by public health measures. Or with the bird flu, which jumped to human but had no capability of really going from human to human. We now have one that jumped from an animal, in this case a bat, certainly, and then maybe an intermediate host, that evolved and developed an extraordinary capability of spreading from human to human.

[23:20:03]

So that by the time you really got your arms around this, you had penetration into the community and every country has suffered. We, the United States, has suffered as -- as worse or, you know, as much or worse than anyone.

I mean, when you look at the number of infections and the number of deaths, it really is quite -- quite concerning. And, again, the factors that got us there, we can go over one by one. I don't think -- I'd have to give a soliloquy here to go through them. So, (inaudible).

GUPTA: I understand, sir. And I think that the idea that this is a very contiguous virus is true. I think that graphic was really meant to show the United States sort of comparison to the rest of the world. And I realize that there's a lot in there.

But when you say we're one of the worst, it is worth reminding people we're not quite 5 percent of the world's population, yet represent 20 percent to 25 percent of the world's infections cumulatively, 20 percent to 25 percent of the world's deaths as well. I mean, that has to be the worst. Is it not the worse?

FAUCI: Yes, it is. I mean, it is quantitatively, if you look at it, it is. I mean, the numbers don't lie.

GUPTA: Sir, you made a list the other day. I'll just rattle them off for the audience. If we wore masks, if we kept physical distance, if we shut down bars or at least indoor -- closely crowded situations, large gatherings and washed hands often.

FAUCI: And outdoors.

GUPTA: Those five things. FAUCI: And outdoors much better than indoors. Always. That's the

point.

GUPTA: If we did those five things, that's not shutting down.

FAUCI: Right.

GUPTA: But if we did those five things, what would the country look like in three or four weeks?

FAUCI: You know, it may take a little bit longer than three or four weeks. I'd say what it would look like in a month, and a month and a half. I think it would be the kind of turnaround that, you know, the southern states that got hit really badly, you know, southern California, Arizona, Texas and Florida. What Arizona did is that they finally did say, wait a minute, we're in trouble. We're going to institute those fundamental principles. And they came right down in a nice curve. Which is really good.

So here's the point that I want to make. Is that -- and it seems simple. Is that one of the things working against it -- the good news about COVID-19 is that about 40 percent of the population has no symptoms when they get infected.

That's good. I mean, you get infected, you get no symptoms. The bad news for messaging is that 40 percent of the population get no symptoms. Because if you want to get a unified response with this most unusual virus, Sanjay, I don't -- I don't think anything has come close to that in my 40 years of experience.

You get 40 percent of the people have no symptoms. Then you get some people that get minor symptoms. Some that get serious enough that they're in bed for several weeks. And they even have some residual effects that I hope we can talk about later. Then there are those that require hospitalization. Some intensive care. Some ventilation. And some death.

So that if you look at the population as a whole, to get a unified message that everybody understands, you have some people who they know statistically it's not going to bother them individually as a person. Because the chances are they're not going to get symptoms, and even if they do, they're going to be mild.

Then you get others, the ones that we've spoken about on your show a lot, the elderly, those with underlying conditions, even young people with underlying conditions, who it is a significant threat, a serious disease and death. So, if you wanted to get control over it, it would be nice if everybody was singing from the same tune when you want to get it down. But what's happened, Sanjay? Look at the reality. What has happened is that we have a situation where we say open up in a measured, prudent way.

GUPTA: Yes.

FAUCI: And you get some that do it fine, and then you see the pictures of people at bars with no masks, not social distancing. I'm not blaming them because I think they're doing that innocently. Because what they're saying, incorrectly, is that if I get infected, I'm in a vacuum. It doesn't bother anybody else. I'm not bothering them. Don't bother me. That's incorrect. Because even though you are likely not going to get symptoms, you are propagating the outbreak.

GUPTA: Yes.

FAUCI: Which means that you're going to infect someone who will infect someone who then will have a serious consequence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COATES: That's unbelievable. Sanjay, we have more from your interview with Dr. Fauci, including why he thinks it is some people just aren't willing to follow the public health guidelines and advice of scientists, and it's not exactly the reason you might think.

[23:25:10]

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Back with me, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who sat down with Dr. Anthony Fauci today as part of a forum at Harvard University? Dr. Fauci took questions from Sanjay and other medical professionals. Sanjay, one of the things that has shocked all of us, really, is the extreme reactions that some people in this country have to being asked to do simple things like wear a mask, and for the sake of the public health. I mean, listen to the scientists. That's not too much to ask. And Dr. Fauci has a really interesting theory about why that is.

GUPTA: Yes, right. Well, you know, it is interesting. That there was two things that really struck me. I want you to listen to this. But one is, you know, Laura, I think people often think of medical science and public health science kind of like of Math, right, two plus two equals four.

[23:30:05]

We want that degree of certainty when it comes to medical science. And sometimes it's a little messier. You have to arrive at these conclusions. But also this idea that science has become so politicized, that's not new. We've heard about the politicization of science before, but the urgency with which this is happening now I think is what he was really driving at.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FAUCI: There is a degree of anti-science feeling in this country. And I think it is not just related to science, it's almost related to authority and a mistrust in authority that's that spills over because in some respects, scientists because they're trying to present data may be looked at -- looked upon as being authoritative figure.

And they're pushing back on authority is pushing back on government is the same as pushing back on science. Unfortunately, that's not what scientists are. And I think we need to be more transparent in reaching out to people and engaging society and understanding why science and evidence-based policy is so important.

But the person who just made that comment is absolutely correct. That is really a very difficult thing to do. And I know when I say that if we follow these five or six principles, we can open up. We don't have to stay shut. We can push and open up if we do this.

There are some people that just don't believe me or don't pay attention to that. And that's unfortunate because that is the way out of this. We can continue to go towards normality without doing the drastic things of shutting down if we follow some fundamental principles.

GUPTA: It's a question about testing that comes up quite a bit. And I can tell you, again, as I mentioned, I've got three girls who are going back to school and there's lots of questions about testing at their school, should it happen.

We talked, you and I, a few months ago about needed breakthroughs in testing. Leaving aside the numbers for a second of the tests that we need, what does a breakthrough in testing look like? You're testing for the virus. Can you get a breakthrough that allows widespread testing that is rapid, that is accurate, that is actionable in some way? And if so, why aren't we there yet?

FAUCI: Yes, you know, that's -- you just described it perfectly, Sanjay. That's exactly what we need and that's exactly what, you know, I have been pushing for, for some time right now. As you know, I've spoken to you about this, both publicly and privately.

We don't have it yet. I hope now with the investment that has been made about really getting point of care that have the characteristics you're talking about. In the perfect world, which I think we can get there. We're a rich country and we've done amazing things.

To get a test that is very specific -- because right now you have tests that you want to determine if an individual is infected for contact tracing. The weakness of that is although in some areas it's doing fine, in others, the gap between the time you get the test --

GUPTA: Yes.

FAUCI: -- and the time you get the result, in some respects obviates the reason why you did the test. Because if you have five to seven days, we got to correct that, but we've got to do even much better than that.

The ultimate goal is that you would have a test that you can do and get a result in 10 minutes that's sensitive, specific, and can be upscaled in the sense if you can do it any place and anywhere, where you could have schools and working places, where you could tell somebody's infected or not.

Now, obviously people will say, well, if you're not infected now, do you know tomorrow? That's true. That's absolutely true. But it would still be good from a surveillance standpoint to get your arms around what the totality of infection is.

Right now what we're trying to do to decompress the load -- and we were talking about this just today on a phone call, and yesterday at the task force meeting, is to get surveillance testing done in a way that you don't absolutely need to crowd out the testing that you need to know tomorrow whether someone's infected.

When you're doing surveillance, like you need to know in the general population, you can give it to universities, get them, get their tests activated and decompress the demand when you get a surge of infections where you need to do contact tracing.

GUPTA: Right.

FAUCI: If we do that, I think we can get those days down, but what we ultimately need is what you just proposed.

[23:35:03]

GUPTA: You know, and I don't want to keep belaboring this point but, you know, one does have to ask why don't we have it yet, if this is doable? I'm not asking for a fantasy here. But I got to tell you, Dr. Fauci, I made this case to Admiral Giroir the other day.

I was in the operating room this past Monday. I got a cat scan on my patient. I got coagulation numbers on my patient. I got a cardiac echo gram on my patient. I was doing brain surgery on this patient. I could not get a COVID result.

As a result, we all had to put on N95, use our PPE, which is also hard to get, put ourselves at increased risks. A COVID test, even within this situation, why so many months don't we have the situation you just described?

FAUCI: You know, Sanjay, I could bend myself into a pretzel trying to get out of that question. It's unacceptable. Period. And I don't know why because that's not what I do everybody. But I can tell you they're trying, but they're not -- I mean, obviously, again, when you say something like that, it gets distorted.

You are a real world example of why we've got to do better. I mean, to say -- and I know, I've been in situations like that. I can get things done medically so fast that it will spin your head. There you were in the operating room having to put on PPE because you didn't know what your -- I mean, that is totally unacceptable. And for me to say anything different is distorting reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COATES: And Sanjay, you've talked to Dr. Fauci a number of times during this pandemic. And what was -- was anything different today for you?

GUPTA: Well, you know, he's such a measured person, Laura. And, you know, he's a real scientist. He was seeing patients earlier today. He told me still, you know, in the clinic seeing patients but, you know, there is a sense of frustration with him.

I think that what he is, I think beleaguered by is that we're in a really tough position in the United States. He would argue in different things than what you've heard recently.

Dr. Fauci would say we're one of the worst off in the world when it comes to this coronavirus and how it's impacted this country and that there are some simple solutions to get out of this, and yet they can't be uniformly applied.

So we never were able to get down to low numbers in this country and I think it's, you know, seeing over 1,000 people die a day, it's not that he takes it personally, I don't think, but I think he's really carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders right now.

COATES: Sanjay, thank you so much.

GUPTA: Yes, Laura. Thank you.

COATES: You know, the president says he might deliver his convention speech at the White House, causing even some Republicans to ask, is that legal? I make my case.

Plus, Kanye West is getting some surprising help for his presidential bid. Some friends of President Trump are giving him a hand, apparently.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

COATES: You know, President Trump's got to find a new place to give an acceptance speech. After moving his convention from North Carolina to Florida in search of a big crowd. Only to have Florida become a coronavirus hotspot.

Well, there will be no big entrance into a crowded arena like we saw in 2016. Another idea, reportedly considered, a repeat of his Fourth of July visit to Mount Rushmore. But now they are floating the idea of the White House, the people's house.

Senator John Thune is the number two Republican in the Senate asking, "Is that even legal? Saying, I assume that's not something that you could do. I assume there's some Hatch Act issues or something there. I don't know the answer to that." Well, some of his GOP colleagues also don't sound thrilled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know why he's doing -- doing that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lives there. And so now the question is, can you do that at the White House?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know whether that's technically legal or not, but it's got to be somewhere.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

COATES: Well, as for the president, well, he says he's trying to save taxpayer money.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But if I use the White House, we save tremendous amounts of money for the government in terms of security, traveling. If we go to another state or some other location, the amount of money is, you know, very enormous. So, that's something to consider also.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Even though he has no problem spending that money traveling to his golf resorts all the time. But, still, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows says, well, the president lives in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Then you go over into the East Wing and that's the private residence. And so, doing those kinds of things that would be more political in nature from the East Wing is certainly an appropriate place to do it if he -- if he chooses to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, Nancy Pelosi was quick to react.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, it won't happen. Let's put it that way. Whether it's legally wrong or ethically out of the question, it shouldn't have even been something that was expressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:45:00]

COATES: So is it legal? Well, technically the only law that is immediately implicated is the Hatch Act, which forbids the use of government property and federal employees for, well, political activities.

But there's a big old exception to that rule. The president. He's exempt from that rule. And it also doesn't apply really to the residential part of the White House or rooms that are not regularly used solely for official duties.

I mean, it makes sense to separate the residence from the people's house, right? Past presidents, Barack Obama and George W. Bush, abided by this principle and they confined their campaign activity accordingly. I mean, of course, they weren't talking about accepting their party's nominations there.

But the president, he was quick to point all of this out, telling reporters today that he can legally give the speech from the White House because he is exempted from the Hatch Act. Well, he is. And here we go again on presidential technicalities and exemptions from laws.

And I can sense that I know what you're thinking. Another example of the gap between what ought to be illegal and what is actually illegal. And knowing that sometimes the law actually elevates the president above, well, that law.

But you know who's not above the law? Federal employees or the use of federal resources. They are not exempt. So who is he planning to help him put on the show? And for all his talk of trying to save taxpayer dollars, are these taxpayer dollars that would be funding this operation?

I mean, how does the RNC intend to quantify or calculate, let alone reimburse any federal expenses? So, I mean, assuming he could legally pull this off, the real question is should he do it? Is it ethical?

And before we answer that, let me just take a step back and ask you the full question. Should the president of the United States use the people's house as his campaign headquarters? Mr. President, that one was rhetorical.

Next, how some of the president's friends are helping a different 2020 candidate. Kanye West.

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[23:50:00]

COATES: Kanye West now filing to get on the presidential election ballot in nine states, adding Ohio and Colorado to his list just today. Democrats, increasingly, concerned about a push by Republicans to help him with his White House bid. And some of those Republicans happen to have ties to President Trump. Here is CNN's Jeff Zeleny.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KANYE WEST, MUSICIAN: I love this guy right here.

TRUMP: Yes, come here.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump embracing Kanye West two years ago right there in the Oval Office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kanye, aren't you guys discussing a meeting today?

ZELENY (voice-over): But now, friends of the president are helping the eccentric entertainer with his latest act. Trying to get on the 2020 ballot himself. He says he is running as an independent. Making his campaign debut last month in a bizarre, but largely

overlooked, South Carolina appearance, where he denied trying to split the black vote.

WEST: And the most racist thing that's ever been said out loud is the idea that Kanye West runs for president, I'm going to split the black votes.

ZELENY (voice-over): Tonight, that's exactly what Democrats fear he is trying to do with the help of Republicans with ties to Trump. Lane Ruhland, the Wisconsin GOP lawyer who represents the Trump campaign in an unrelated lawsuit dropped off West's petition and signatures at the state election board on Tuesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many signatures did you collect?

LANE RUHLAND, WISCONSIN GOP LAWYER: No comment.

ZELENY (voice-over): She declined comment to our affiliate, WISN, and to CNN. In other states, other GOP operatives are involved. The Wisconsin Republican Party denied any role in helping West saying, "It appears that the Kanye West campaign made a smart decision by hiring an experienced election attorney. We welcome Kanye West and all other candidates who qualified for ballot access to the race."

So far, Wisconsin, Colorado, and Ohio are battleground states where West's petition and signatures are under review. He's already qualified for a half dozen more states that are either deep red or blue.

In the race between Trump and Joe Biden, Wisconsin is one of the most pivotal states. In 2016, Trump won by fewer than 23,000 votes after a substantial decline in turnout among black voters.

This time, the Trump campaign is trying to improve its performance, placing a Republican field office in a historic black neighborhood in Milwaukee. We met David Bowen, a Democratic state representative earlier this summer who voiced his suspicion of the Trump campaign's motives.

DAVID BOWEN, DEMOCRATIC STATE REPRESENTATIVE, MILWAUKEE: I think their goal is to try to get just those few, but enough black votes in this election.

ZELENY (voice-over): Tonight, Bowen telling CNN, "It's sad to see a popular music artist like Kanye be used as a pawn to trick his own people and fans to vote for a fake campaign."

The extent of his campaign is an open question. His wife, Kim Kardashian, has voiced concerns about his mental health and has asked for compassion as they deal with his diagnosis of bipolar disorder.

[23:55:00]

Yet, West has long sought attention by flirting with presidential ambitions, saying this, five years ago. WEST: I have decided, in 2020, to run for president.

ZELENY (voice-over): Back then, Trump stoked West's ego.

TRUMP: Kanye West, I love him. Now, maybe in a few years I'll have to run against him. So, I don't know. So I'll take that back.

ZELENY (voice-over): But now, Trump has done anything but. When West declared his candidacy last month, the president joined the speculation that West could syphon support from Biden, especially from black voters. At the White House today, the president insisted he had no role in West's candidacy.

TRUMP: I like Kanye very much. No, I have nothing to do with him getting on the ballot.

ZELENY (voice-over): Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COATES: Jeff, thank you. And thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.

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