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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Stoking Fear at NH Campaign Rally with No CDC Guidelines Implemented; Trump Calls for Big 10 College Football to Reopen; COVID-19 Death Toll in United States Surpasses 181,000; New Details on Jacob Blake Shooting in Kenosha; Actor Chadwick Boseman Dies at Age 43; NBA, Players Say Games Will Resume on Saturday and Arenas Can Be Used for Voting in November; President Trump Pushes Alternate Reality on Campaign Trail; CNN Heroes: Making Dogs' Golden Years Shine. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired August 28, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello, this is CNN Tonight, I'm Don Lemon, 11:00 p.m. here on the East Coast and we are following multiple breaking stories for you.

The president stoking fear on the campaign trail just tonight claiming without any evidence, that Joe Biden will endanger American safety, saying alternate reality that he pushed at the RNC. The question, will anyone believe the lies?

And the coronavirus death toll in the U.S. now surpassing 181,000 people here's what the key model is predicting. That that number will jump to over 317,000 by December, but what researchers say if 95 percent of the country wore masks, more than 67,000 of those lives could be saved. So, what are we waiting for? And why are people booing at a rally for the president when asked to put on a mask?

Plus, the Kenosha police union claiming that Jacob Blake had a knife in his hand, but an officer in a headlock before we shot multiple times. But the Blake family attorney said he posed no imminent threat to officers and did not initiate the altercation.

And just moments ago, the president making his first comments on the Blake shooting, saying it was not a good site. Asked by our affiliate WMUR in New Hampshire, if thought the officer who shot Blake was justified, Trump responded, I'm looking into it very strongly, I will be getting reports and I will certainly let you know, pretty soon.

And this incredibly sad breaking news to report. Actor Chadwick Boseman, the star of the blockbuster and groundbreaking film Black Panther has died at the young age 43. He had been battling colon cancer for the past four years. We're going to have more on this story and others throughout the hour here on CNN.

I want to bring in now Susan Glasser, she is a staff writer for the New Yorker and former Nixon White House counsel John Dean joins us as well John is the author of the upcoming book, Authoritarian Nightmare, Trump and his followers. Good to see both of you. It's been a long time. I hope you're doing well.

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Too long.

LEMON: Yes, absolutely.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: Ho, Don.

LEMON: Hi, Susan. I, going to start with you, so take a listen to what happen when supporters -- I'll just mention this, OK? Supporters at Trump rally in New Hampshire tonight were asked to put on masks, because it is a state law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the New Hampshire executive order 63, please wear masks.

CROWD: (Booing)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I guess Susan, this kind of reaction should be expected when the president ignores his own task forces guidance and makes it seem like this pandemic is over.

GLASSER: Well, look, I mean, you know, we just came out of the Republican convention this week, which was a willful act of -- sort of reality defiance, culminating in essentially the presidents pardoning of the White House lawn with a thousand people, the vast majority of them not wearing masks, if that is the messaging from the elites, other Republican Party, it's not going to be a surprise that those who would take the time to come out on an August, Friday night, to an airport hangar in New Hampshire, probably aren't going to wear masks either.

It's just -- it's so tragic to see this having become weaponized by the president having turned it into a kind of political statement that puts people's lives at risk. I have to say though, you know, I am still reeling from the images of the president and his guests at the White House last night without masks. My 3-year-old nephew, has learned and has to wear a mask in public because that's the law, that's the requirements.

And it just -- it's a very painful thing to see this is part of the political discourse. But of course, the rally itself, I listen to the rally tonight. That Trump gave in New Hampshire. It is over the top and it sort of (inaudible) is part of denialism. He is arguing the fact (inaudible) that it doesn't even exist.

LEMON: Yes. Well, here we are, I have to tell you. I'm not surprised. And I wasn't surprised about last night because, what do you think, all of a sudden, they're going to turn on the dime and start wearing masks, when he's been saying it's a hoax the entire time.

John, I want to bring you, we have lots to cover so, let's move on and talk about this subject, the law in order. The president constantly mentioned law and order tonight, claiming without any evidence, that no one will be safe in Biden's America. Similar to your bosses, 1968 tactics, how do you see this playing out?

[23:05:13]

DEAN: Well, it's reminiscent of the former gonzo journalist, Hunter Thompson, who described it as fear and loathing. And that is exactly what it is. You create fear and you create loathing.

In other words you try to frighten people into thinking that you can handle the situation, you are in charge, and you create the loathing by drawing on their prejudice. That it is the other, and that is what we have here. And there is a reason for it, Don. This is what works with his audience. This is why I wrote a book about them, because nobody seems to understand them.

LEMON: Yes. Susan, here's how you describe last night's reality show convention. OK. You said, the spectacle suggested a president entering his reelection campaign, not strong and confident of victory, but insecure and faltering, a president whose prospects, left unvarnished by lies and fantasy, were so poor that his strategists had to reinvent him as a different person all together.

Now that is sync and well put. This White House really expects people to believe Trump's version of what happened in the last 3.5 years? We lived it. This may be the reality on earth too, but on the earth that most people live on, this is certainly not the reality.

GLASSER: Well, watching all week long, Don, that was nothing for me. It was an out of body experience. I mean, you know, it's one thing to be very aggressive in politics and spinning your side of the facts, but trying to sell any part of the American people on the idea that Donald Trump is this sort of kind hearted, empathetic family man, his daughter Ivanka said he works you know, from dawn until midnight, he doesn't watch TV.

LEMON: Susan, I kept thinking and it's like, I had John -- I kept thinking of George Bailey, from it's a wonderful life the entire time. I mean, it was like, wait a minute, who is this man there talking about?

GLASSER: Well, exactly. I mean, you know, there was this moment where Melania Trump, in her speech, which you know some people said well this is -- you know, she's so empathetic, she really lost me at the very end when she said and this is a president who offers you absolute honesty. I thought, really, really?

You know, this, to me, again, it suggests fundamental insecurity on the part of at least the president strategists. But I will say, Don, if you listen to Trump speech, last night, and definitely he's speech tonight, what did you hear? You heard a guy, he himself is not by his makeover. You know, they may be trying to sell a kind of kinder, gentler less objectionable Trump, you saw Ivanka say well, his tweets are little rough, but you know, he means well.

The truth is that Donald Trump doesn't want to be anything other than himself and what he is fundamentally puddling, as you said, is fear, the name-calling, actually, tonight he said something about Joe Biden.

I've never heard him say before. He said Joe Biden was the worst candidate in the history of the Democratic Party, the worst nominee ever. And you know, this is where we are at the end of August, what is he going to be saying about Joe Biden in October?

LEMON: Yes. An assignment for everyone watching, I just want you to google the Biff Tannen video from Back to the Future and you will know exactly what I'm talking about. So John, you have a new book out and you explore the role that authoritarianism has played in Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic, and the Black Lives Matter protest as well. What can you tell us?

DEAN: I can tell you that he has got a following, Don, that is deeply entrenched, the reason there is a very good reason he stayed within that very narrow but solid approval rating of 40 to 44 percent, because these people are real believers. They are really two types of people, authoritarian followers, they are an educated white men, and they are religious right and evangelicals, the evangelicals being the largest.

And they are not going anywhere. And we actually ran up mamas survey, to test their personalities, to find out who they were. And they ring all the bells for authoritarian followers. So, we know this type, and the only way they can be dealt with and defeated at the polls is just that, a tsunami election, where they are not going anywhere and they are going to be around after Trump leaves.

LEMON: Thank you both, I appreciate your time. Stay safe, please. I want to bring in now Dr. Jonathan Reiner, he's the Director of the Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington University Hospital. Doctor, good to see you. Thanks so much.

[23:10:00]

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Hi, Don.

LEMON: So, I've got to ask you, what goes through your mind? When you hear a crowd boo when asked to put on a mask?

REINER: Anger. Anger. You know, I went into do a case last night at the hospital, put my team in and as we waited for the helicopter to land on the roof, one of my nurses with two young children, dressed in full PPE was connecting with her one of her kids back to school night via Zoom, wearing full PPE.

And it struck me in so many ways, how much we've lost, and how much so many people sacrifice. You know, we've lost about 1,000 health care workers to COVID, many of them too who haven't had adequate PPE. And this is just six blocks from the White House. We were six blocks from that gathering of 2,000 people yesterday not wearing masks. And it makes me really angry. People don't get it. So many people are sacrificing economically,

physically and professionally and they have created this fiction that COVID is nothing more than the flu, or that it's some hoax but yet 181,000 people are dead. It makes me really angry.

LEMON: Yes, well, it should, and it makes me angry as well, having lost two friends, one early on in the pandemic as you know, one just two nights ago. We went to high school with, left behind her son and of course her loving family.

And COVID is still real, to all Americans, except for I guess, the folks who gathered in the White House lawn last night and the folks today who were booing about putting on masks. It's insulting. Tonight, the president is calling for the big 10 college football conference to reopen. This is his reasoning, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are young, strong guys, they're not going to be affected by the virus. If you look at it, it's generally older people, older people that have heart conditions that have diabetes, that have problems. These are big, strong guys. They'll be just fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What do you think, what's reality?

REINER: How disgraceful. First of all, dismissing the dead basically as, you know, dead limbs on trees that we just need to cut off, that is basically saying. Old people, people with heart disease, you know, it was time for them to go anyway. That's what he's alluding to.

But look, you know, first of all, not all young people will have a painless, easy course with this disease. I know two people in their twenties that have been suffering for months with the after effects of COVID, the so-called long haulers. So, it's not necessarily a free pass for young people, but moreover, these people will spread it to their families into the community at large.

A thousand people a day are dying of this, right? At our current rate, we will surpass the total number of dead from World War II, American dead from World War II by Christmas, right? This is the singular public health event of anyone's life and the president is trying to make you think that it's just a bad cold. We can't be business as usual, we can be smart, and we need to be smarter than the virus.

But the president is incapable of doing it. We need to accelerate testing, and they are literally trying to slow testing down. You know, we need to social distance, we need to get as you said, a few minutes ago, the 95 percent mask wearing because, otherwise, thousands and thousands of people are going to die between now and Christmas.

LEMON: Doctor, thank you, I appreciate your time.

REINER: Sure. LEMON: So, here's our sad breaking news tonight. The death of Black

Panther star, Chadwick Boseman, 43 years old, more details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

LEMON: So there is sad news tonight. That will come as a shock to a lot of people. Actor Chadwick Boseman, star of the groundbreaking and blockbuster film Black Panther, dead at the age of 43. Nischelle Turner is here, she joins me to discuss. Nischelle, thank you so much. Unbelievable. It is, 43 years old, beyond set. Please tell us what you know.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Younger than the both of us, it's tough talking about someone that is so young and has such a bright future in front of him. I mean you mentioned of course, he was a star of a Black Panther and introduced us all to King T'Challa. You know, Marvels first black superhero movie. Full, you know, full rounded movie, and he was catapulted into superstardom after that.

But he also the start in so many film, I used to kind of joke with him and say if there was, you know, an iconic black man in American history, you would play it. Because he also played Jackie Robinson in -- 42, which is of course today is Jackie Robinson Day in Major League Baseball. He played (inaudible) marshal, and marshal. And of course today is the anniversary for the March on Washington.

He also played James Brown on Get on up, and he did all of that masterfully. I mean, Chadwick was dedicated to the craft, he believed in the work, he was masterful at it. But Don, he also believed in social justice and initiatives. He was a firm believer on and get out to vote fight. He's a kid from South Carolina. He talked openly about the trials and tribulations he had with racism growing up.

And he even talked recently about when he was shooting Black Panther in Atlanta, just you know, five years ago. He would go back and forth to visit his family in South Carolina, and he could see clan rallies and things like that. It sat with him and he was committed to seeing change. And he was so excited to bring T'Challa to the screen.

[23:20:07]

I remember I hosted the introductory press conference for Black Panther for Disney with the entire cast. Now remember introducing him, and you know how people say Barack Obama has a swagger when he walks. Chadwick Boseman has that same swagger when he was walking on that stage. It was an amazing moment, the crowd stood up for him, everybody was so excited.

LEMON: And he did the, you know, thing over his chest from Black Panther. I have to say, a similar I saw him at an opening and -- but he was also very -- you know how some people care to have an entourage when they walk around like, I'm a star.

TURNER: No. LEMON: No, very humble.

TURNER: Very humble.

LEMON: Not at all, stood there took pictures with everyone. Talk to everyone. Literally his people had to drag him away from talking to the people in the crowd, and on the rope line. I got to put this up on the show, because this is from August 11th take a look at this. He posted a picture with Kamala Harris. He talked all about his movie roles, but also you know, he was very excited about his fellow Howard Grad. With the hashtag, we all vote, and vote 2020. He was focused on the future.

TURNER: Yes he was, focused on the future. And he would talk, you know, so openly about it. The thing that no one knew, Don, is that he had been diagnosed with stage three colon cancer in 2016.

LEMON: So he knew -- hang on. He knew while he was shooting, Black Panther --

TURNER: They were done with Black Panther.

LEMON: They were done. OK.

TURNER: Yes they were done shooting with Black Panther, but he was shooting Marshall. He shot 42, he shot the Five Bloods, which is just out now, Spike Lee's latest movie. He is the central figure in that movie. I did just interview the cast of that, and I did wonder why Chadwick was not doing press. I don't know if it was because of his illness, because he is the central figure in that movie and he is wonderful.

LEMON: And everyone thought he was getting ready for a role because he was thin, right?

TURNER: Yes.

LEMON: He was preparing for a role.

TURNER: And the last few months, he did a couple videos and he did look very thin. And I, like many people thought, he was preparing for a role. What we did not know is that he was in a fight for his life.

LEMON: As I said, he's a graduate of Howard, he returned to give that commencement address in 2018. Gave a Wakanda salute at the Howard graduation saying, Howard forever. There he is right there.

TURNER: I remember asking him once --

LEMON: Can we listen, Nichelle?

TURNER: I'm sorry I didn't know.

LEMON: No, no, no. I didn't know either. But let's re-rack it if we can and hear a little bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHADWICK BOSEMAN, ACTOR, BLACK PANTHER: -- crosses discipline. Purpose is in essential element of youth. It is the reason you are on the planet at this particular time in history. Your very existence is wrapped up in the things you are here to fulfill, whatever you choose for a career path remember the struggles along the way are only meant to shape you for your purpose.

I don't know what your future is, but if you are willing to take the heart away the more complicated one, the one with more failures at first than successes. The one that has ultimately proven to have more meaning, more victory, more glory then you will not regret it. Now, this is your time.

I love you Howard. Howard forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Oh boy. Go ahead Nischelle, what do you want to say? I don't know what to say.

TURNER: I remember asking him once -- you know, because so many people would ask him to do the Wakanda forever salute after Black Panther came out, I ask him does it get on your nerves? Do you get tired of doing it? And he said absolutely not. I was like a kid in a candy store, waiting with baited breath to bring to child to everybody.

He was so proud of this. So proud of that film, so proud of what it did for little black boys and black girls to look up and see someone that looked like them be this amazing superhero, and this whole cast of beautiful black folks.

And this film being shot in parts of Africa, I mean, that meant the world to him. Because he also believe, like I said, so much in the work. I just, I don't even know what to say reading the statement from his rep, knowing that he did all this through boundless grounds of chemotherapy and being sick. He just persevered, I mean talk about strong, talk about a true king. I mean he played king, but talk about a king.

[23:25:08]

LEMON: I just -- I hate 2020. I really do. I wish my -- my mom said, she would slap me in the next year I wanted mom, please come and slap me into next year, because this is awful.

Nischelle, I just -- I would just want to say about Chadwick Boseman, he's representation of us he did us well. He did us right and I hope that both you and I did him right in this moment because he deserves all of it. Thank you.

TURNER: Rest in heaven.

LEMON: Thank you beautiful black woman. I love you.

TURNER: Thank you. LEMON: You take care. Thanks for representing. Chadwick Boseman,

Chadwick Boseman. Dead at the age of 43. Rest in peace. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:29:58]

LEMON: After postponing a total of nine playoff games since Wednesday, the NBA and Players Association have announced the season will resume tomorrow. That was put on pause when Milwaukee Bucks refused to play, protesting the police shooting of Jacob Blake.

That led to an outpouring of support all across the sports world, including my next guest. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WEBBER, AMERICAN BASKETBALL PLAYER, NBA ANALYST FOR TURNER SPORTS: If not now, when? If not during a pandemic and countless lives being lost, if not now, when? We know nothing is going to change. We get it. Martin Luther King got shot and risked his life, and Medgar Evers. We've seen this in all of our heroes constantly taken down.

We understand it's not going to end. But that does not mean, young men, that you don't do anything. Don't listen to these people telling you don't do anything because it's not going to end right away. You are starting something for the next generation and the next generation to take over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joining me now is basketball legend Mr. Chris Webber, an NBA analyst for Turner Sports. Chris, thank you. I want to tell you, your voice is so important. Don't stop. I commend you for doing what you're doing. Thank you for joining us on this interview, OK?

WEBBER: Thank you for having me.

LEMON: Thank you. So what these players are doing is real and it's bigger than a game.

WEBBER: It certainly is. And I'm so glad that I'm in the bubble because, you know, being an athlete and a black male, it's like we have to be forensic scientists when we read the newspaper or when we hear stories or narratives. And a narrative I started hearing today was that the players needed a mental day.

Now, I think mental health is very important. I just want to be clear for many people out there, this wasn't mental day, this was players being frustrated, understanding that they had a great partner in the NBA but also that they had some cache and a little bit of leverage.

They are ready to banish the season. I'm very glad they were playing basketball. I'm very happy and proud of them that they took that step, though. LEMON: I want to have so much to get to tonight. We have so much to

cover. The other thing is Chris Paul speaking out about what has been like the past couple of days for players. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS PAUL, AMERICAN BASKETBALL PLAYER: Guys are tired. Like, I mean, tired. When I say 'tired,' we're not physically tired. We're just tired of seeing the same thing over and over again. We all are tired of just seeing the same thing over and over again, and everybody just expects us to be OK just because we get paid great money. You know, we're human. We have real feelings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Again, very real. But they are just expressing how black men especially feel all over America. A lot of people are tired, but mostly black men.

WEBBER: A lot of people are tired and our colleagues there of other colors and other races, they've been supportive, and many of them are tired. You certainly hear the frustration on Chris Paul's voice. That's what I mean.

The thing that I love is that it was the sincerity, it was the impulse, and I hate that it came down to emotionally having to be pushed that way, but this is one of the most sincere acts I've seen in my 25 years of professional sports.

LEMON: Sources are saying Shams Charania of The Athletic -- excuse me, that LeBron James, Chris Paul, small group of players actually spoke to President Obama on Wednesday night. And here is what he advised. He advised them to play and utilize the opportunity to contextualize action they want in order to play. We're now seeing the results of that, aren't we?

WEBBER: We sure are. The demands they asked for, the teams own -- teams that own arenas, if they make those places voting centers, that they'll have a component when it comes to advertising. There's going to be a lot of change. It doesn't just stop here.

I believe they're going to continue to come up with platforms to make sure that they express what they need. So I think this is just the beginning. But definitely, I think true change is going to be made.

LEMON: The season is going to start back -- it's going to start tomorrow. And as part of the deal to resume play, the league and the players are committing to establishing a social justice coalition and they're going to be pursuing voting initiatives.

I would imagine that includes some of those arenas, right, that I think the former president encouraged them to include, including a big announcement that the NBA arena will be used as voting locations.

This is only really the beginning of the empowerment, I believe, that these athletes are feeling and then getting involved with someone like the former president who knows, powerful.

WEBBER: I'm so proud of LeBron and Chris Paul. I mean, what an awesome way to use relationships to actually reach out. That is the thing. We understand that we're not politicians. We're not fools, though. We understand what's going on.

[23:35:00]

WEBBER: But with the help of leadership, with the help of others, and groups of people that look like you, others that don't, people from the law enforcement community, all together in bringing them, I just love the fact that once they notice that, OK, this is what we're going to do, let's take our time, let's take a deep breath, let's ask for help and see what we come up with.

And to me, that's why this was just more than a one-day break. Some things really are going to happen because they started it. Tomorrow, the conversation is still going to be around, wow, this is the first game back and those guys may not have finished the season.

LEMON: Hah! Sir, I really enjoy speaking to you. I really do. And I am grateful that you're using your platform to speak out. I'm so grateful that you come on the show and you talk about it. And again, thank you so much. By the way, say hello to your mother for me.

WEBBER: I will. Thank you for having me on.

LEMON: The reality-show president put on a show for the RNC. But there wasn't much reality to it. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, the reality-show president pushing an alternate reality at the RNC. Let's discuss.

CNN's chief media correspondent Mr. Brian Stelter is here. He is the author of the new book, "Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth." Also Mark McKinnon, the former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain and the executive producer of "The Circus." So watch "The Circus" every weekend. And your book is on my bedside table. I'm reading it. So, congratulations to both of you.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. Brian, the president --

STELTER: It's a little bit of a horror story, it's scary story.

LEMON: But I needed to go to sleep. So, you know, it is fine. It helps.

(LAUGHTER) LEMON: I don't have to watch "The Twilight Zone." I just read your book.

Listen, the president painted quite a picture last night of what his administration has done. How much of it, you think, resemble actual reality?

STELTER: I think it resembles the Fox News reality. It is a scary story much like my book where a law and order is what is needed in order to quell the craziness that is happening in cities.

This is not really connected to reality that we know as journalists, that we cover as reporters, but it is a story that Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson tell every night. So it makes sense to the Fox audience, it does not make sense to the rest of the country, however.

LEMON: If you are an avid watcher of Fox News, that is what you see every night.

STELTER: Yeah.

LEMON: Mark, you are at the White House last night. You said that the president took a gamble using the White House. Look at that beautiful picture of you, by the way, courtesy of Showtime. You said he took a gamble by using the White House as a venue. Did that gamble pay off?

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yeah, sure, it did. I mean, he had an incredible venue that is not supposed to be used for political purposes, according to the Hatch Act. But he knew it would look great and it did look great. It was spectacular. (INAUDIBLE) would have been proud.

He knows that whatever legal proceedings, whatever, it won't be figured out for a year or more from now.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

MCKINNON: And then most voters don't understand it or care about it. So, yes, it was a gamble, and I think the upside was that it looks spectacular. It really did. He has a flair for the dramatic.

The thing that was unusual was, as great as it looked and a spectacular as the venue was, the speech was clearly flat and didn't live up to it.

LEMON: Yeah. It was poorly written. It was flat and way, way too long. But here is the thing. Maybe they will get to see it online or in clips somewhere, but Brian, the president is all about ratings.

However, according to data from Nielsen, the democratic convention averaged more viewers than the Republicans. So break it down for us. This must really irked this president.

STELTER: Yes, three out of four nights of the democratic convention were higher rated than the republican convention. That means Kamala Harris's speech was better watched and had a bigger audience than Mike Pence's speech.

And just last night, Trump speech, it had about a 23 million viewers, but Biden's speech last week had about 24 million viewers. So, these key moments of the conventions, it was the Democrats beating the Republicans.

Normally, I don't think it would be a big deal. But we know it is a big deal to the president. We know that he is obsessed with ratings. He has tweeted about ratings hundreds of times. He tries to spin every rating story to his benefit.

And so the fact that Biden beat him in the ratings is something that is probably going to get under his skin. By the way, the Biden campaign is trying to get under his skin with it.

LEMON: Yeah. As you said, normally, it wouldn't be a big deal, but this president likes to tout --

STELTER: Normally, no.

LEMON: He would be talking about the ratings had they've been great and they won.

STELTER: Have they won.

LEMON: Yeah. Mark, let's play a clip from the latest episode of your show, "The Circus." The clip features Kellyanne Conway talking about Wisconsin. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER PALMIERI, FORMER CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA AND HILLARY CLINTON: The George Floyd video, the president said it was disgraceful.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT: And I called it murder.

PALMIERI: Do you know if he's seen the Kenosha video of Jacob Blake?

CONWAY: I don't know if he's seen the video. And I know that we don't know all the facts. I hear that it is under investigation. But what we have seen night after night are people taking to Kenosha the way that they have in Minneapolis, in Portland, in Seattle, and so many places, Jennifer, and looting, vandalizing. People -- two people lost their lives overnight.

PALMIERI: I know.

CONWAY: I mean they're walking around with huge firearms.

[23:45:00]

CONWAY: You know, Camp David --

PALMIERI: Yeah. CONWAY: is a historic site of peace talks. And I urged the president to go have domestic peace talks at Camp David. I think it would be phenomenal.

PALMIERI: Between who, like, who is part of it?

CONWAY: Well, it should be people who are genuinely interested in unifying the country on race and other issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, one would hope that they would also talk about what I talked about in the opening to the show earlier this evening about the forces that are going in, Mark, to -- and many of them right-wing, far right-wing forces going in.

Did Kellyanne Conway listen to the president's convention speech? Isn't he the one showing the division here?

MCKINNON: Well, unquestionably. The irony is that when she was talking about that, they didn't yet know that that 17-year-old woman was the perpetrator. She was clearly making a sandwich. She thought it was probably Antifa protester that carrying around the gun.

The thing that really strikes me about this, Don, I get that line of attack and sort of fear and there is unjustified violence, of course. But why not talk about the other side of the equation? Donald Trump didn't mention the victims.

All he talked about was the perpetrators. All he talked about was the Blue Lives Matter. It is not that hard to do both. It is not one or the other.

LEMON: Yeah.

MCKINNON: Why can't you talk about the victims, as well?

LEMON: He was asked about it by our affiliate WMUR tonight. He said that he made his first comments, and he said it was not a good sight, meaning the shooting of Jacob Blake. But then also said, I'm looking into the shooting very strongly, when asked it was justified. But again, he is not really talking about the militia, the person who was charged with murder.

Brian, let's talk about Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook CEO, admits that he made an operational mistake and failing to remove a page that encourage armed Americans to take to the streets of Kenosha. How much of a responsibility does Facebook have here?

STELTER: How many operational mistakes are there going to be? We have seen this all around the world, Facebook unable to manage what it has created. It has created this environment where people can organize in private groups and then go out and commit violence.

It all often tests afterwards, should have done better, then it made mistakes. But how many times this is going to happen? How many people are going to have their lives destroyed before Facebook takes its role more seriously? I think that's the question.

I know Facebook can say that it is too critical of them. But this is a struggle right now inside Facebook with many staffers saying, our company that we work for needs to do better. It is a real, real problem, Don.

LEMON: Brian and Mark, either you are the two luckiest people I know or the two smartest people I know --

MCKINNON: Why is that?

LEMON: -- because of your book that is called "Hoax," bestseller. It is called "Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth." You say President Trump's cozy relationship with Fox News is like nothing you have ever seen before. So tell me about that.

STELTER: Sure. I wish I didn't have to write this book. But I had to write "Hoax" because --

LEMON: I got 20 seconds, by the way. You know how this works.

STELTER: -- the president's rhetoric and Fox's rhetoric, this relationship between them, has had life and death consequences due to this pandemic. So I have the timeline, Trump and Fox, how they actually hurt each other, and that is what "Hoax" is all about.

LEMON: Look at that. That is the TV person. I said, Brian, I have 20 seconds --

MCKINNON: (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: -- finish it so that I can tease (ph) his book again. Make sure you buy his book. And I said, you're lucky, as well --

STELTER: Look, thank you very much.

LEMON: -- because of the Showtime on Circus and Brian's new book again is, "Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth." Make sure you tune in to --

STELTER: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: -- "The Circus" on Showtime this weekend, as well. Thank you, gentlemen. I'll see you.

Also, I want to make sure that you tune in to the all-new episode of "United Shades of America" with W. Kamau Bell. It airs Sunday at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

And the new episode of my podcast called "Silence is Not an Option" with Kamau. It is available now. Kamau and I are talking about being in interracial relationships, OK? You want to listen to this when people are really interested in it. And I like your comments, as well, positive or negative, thank you for sending. Find it on Apple podcast or your favorite podcast app.

We are going to be right back.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: When COVID-19 first hit, animal shelters all over the United States emptied out quickly as people wanted to quarantine with a bit of four-leg love. CNN hero Sherri Franklin, who finds homes for senior dogs, has been working hard to find new ways to safely place as many as possible and it is as adorable as ever.

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(BARKING)

SHERRI FRANKLIN, CNN HERO: When we got the shelter-in-place order for the COVID-19, we moved 86 dogs into foster homes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning, everyone.

FRANKLIN: We are having meets and greets virtually so that new adopters can meet their dogs before they actually touch them.

[23:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): How's that feel?

FRANKLIN: It's really been so heart-warming to actually see the first time the new adopter actually gets to meet their dog in person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, it's your mama.

FRANKLIN: It's a great time, if you've been thinking about adopting a dog. It's nice to be able to wake up and not focus on the bad news.

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LEMON: Oh, so nice. My fiance and I adopted a senior dog. He is so happy. During the pandemic, we did it. I need to tell you that Sherri and her organization Muttville has helped more than 340 senior dogs find forever homes during this pandemic. To see her full story, go to cnnheroes.com. Do it right now. Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues. Woof, woof.

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