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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Visits Kenosha To Thank Law Enforcement Despite Pleas From Officials; Trump Offers No Evidence For Story About Plane Loaded With Thugs; President Trump Relying On Dr. Atlas Over Dr. Fauci As COVID-19 Continues To Spread Throughout U.S.; Record Mail-In Voting May Delay Election Results; Experts Warning Of Delayed Election Results In November Amid Record Mail-In Voting; Sen. Ed Markey Defeats Kennedy In Massachusetts Primary. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 01, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Top of the hour, CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. 11:00 p.m. as a matter of fact here on the East Coast. We're following multiple breaking stories for you.

The president visiting Kenosha, Wisconsin, today, despite pleas from local officials to stay away. Never publicly mentioned the name of Jacob Blake who is now paralyzed after being shot in the back by police seven times. Instead, the president focused on touring damage, touring the damage there from riots and thanking law enforcement. That is as the coronavirus death toll in this country now surpassing 184,000 people. Far more than any country in the world.

So why won't the Trump administration join the global effort to distribute a vaccine? And why is the president relying on a former Fox News guest for medical advice instead of the country's top infectious disease expert?

Plus, the president and his doctor releasing a statement today denying he had a stroke, raising questions about a condition that no news outlet was reporting.

And a Democratic data group warning Election Day could initially look like a Trump landslide even if he loses when all the votes are counted, with an unprecedented number of mail-in ballots this November, Election Day will likely be more like election week. Don't panic everyone. We're going to break down all these stories and more in the hour ahead. It is packed and we've got a lot to get to.

So, I want to bring in CNN Political Analyst, I should say, Carl Bernstein. Miles Taylor is a former Trump Homeland Security Official, now backing Joe Biden. I'm so grateful to have both of you on. Thank you so much, gentlemen. Mr. Bernstein, long time no see, good to see you.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Same with you.

LEMON: So, the president goes to Kenosha to focus on law enforcement, not Jacob Blake. What message is he sending here?

BERNSTEIN: That he is willing to see a real civil war in this country if it helps his re-election. We have had a cold civil war in this country for 20 years or so, Trump was smart enough to exploit that cold civil war, to get elected through his racist appeals and other means and now we are seeing him actually ignite this cold civil war.

Pouring fuel on the fire to stoke violence, a willingness to see Americans die in the streets if it helps his chances for re-election. We've never had anything like this in our history where a president of the United States is willing to engage in this kind of conduct, and at the same time, he is doing all this through an unprecedented authoritarianism in which he has taken over the postal service, he has taken over the scientific agencies that are responsible for our health.

CMS, the FDA. He's politicized the CIA. All of these instances are now instruments of a dictatorship, an American dictatorship that Donald Trump has formed and with the enabling by the Republican Party in Washington.

It's extraordinary. It's the most dangerous moment of my lifetime in this country, and all Americans should be looking at this for what it is, because it is authoritarianism, and it's worst and at the same time a willingness to stoke violence.

LEMON: Well, Miles, I want to bring you in. I see you nodding in agreement -- why are you nodding in agreement with what he said?

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER TRUMP HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: I mean, look, Don, I'll say this -- two years ago if you had played what Carl just said to me, I would have said, that's hyperbole. Right? Carl, I would have shrugged you off.

LEMON: I was just going to say it's not hyperbole on what you are saying, Carl, but I saw you nodding your head. And so I brought it up.

TAYLOR: But I would have, right. I would have written Carl off. And two and a half years serving this president, being in the room with him, seeing how he operates, as Carl explains what he just explained, I've gone from hyperbole to reality. That's the Donald Trump that we live with. That's the Donald Trump that I witness in the office, and I continue to be stunned to say that to you on camera.

This is the United States of America. This is not Belarus. You know, this is where we're living, and it's stunning. And Carl knows it far better than I and has witnessed far more corruption than we had before this presidency and covered it very effectively. But we are in uncharted territory, and I think that's a big concern.

[23:05:04]

And look, today we saw the president's rhetoric and yesterday and the day before and in the months before this, rhetoric that again jumps the tracks from near conspiracy theory to violence. That's the big concern. And we saw that with Kenosha. And as you said, Don, people, local elected officials who said, please don't come do this. We're worried about the safety of our communities.

LEMON: Let's talk about rhetoric and all this stuff. You know, because I wonder, where does he pull this stuff, where does he get this stuff, is he just making up all on the top of his head. Is he watching conspiracy theorists videos online on social media? I mean, because he was asked today, Miles, about -- he's made this wild claim about a plane full of looters. Take a listen and then I'll get to my question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can tell you that I could probably refer you to the person and they could do it. I'd like to ask that person if it was OK.

But that person was on a plane, said that there were about six people like that person, more or less, and what happened is the entire plane filled up with the looters, the anarchists, the rioters, people that obviously were looking for trouble, and the person felt very uncomfortable on the plane. This would be a person you know.

So, I will see whether or not I can get that person -- I'll let them know and I'll see whether or not I can get that person to speak to you. But this was a firsthand account of a plane going from Washington to wherever, and I'll see if I can get that information for you. Maybe they'll speak to you, maybe they won't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, maybe they'll speak to you, maybe they won't. You asked former colleagues in the Trump administration, Miles, about this. What did they say to you?

TAYLOR: So today, today Don, I talked to people in the White House. I said, what is this? And these are people I talk to and who share the same sympathies. I said, what's the president talking about? Their response to me on secure messaging was, we're not really sure what the president is talking about. That's a concern in and of itself.

But here's the bigger concern, is in my experience in this White House with this president, it's not that he uses these things cynically for his personal self-interest. It's that he actually believes them. So the president will embrace conspiracy theories like they are fact and legitimately in front of his cabinet secretaries and senior advisers really latch on to these things.

LEMON: Does anybody say no. No, Mr. President. No. And listen. You say, this is someone who worked for him, someone who was a supporter? I get really wrong.

TAYLOR: I would say this, yes. But the number of people --

LEMON: Hold on, Carl. Let him finish and I'll bring you in.

TAYLOR: -- who do that. Has dwindled. The number of people who say that, Don, has dwindled significantly. It's down to a minimal margin. In years one and two, there were guardrails. They are gone. People don't say no anymore, because look, the president has a sense for this. He sense his people who dissent and he purges them. And as a result he's surrounded now largely by sycophants, and I don't say that lightly.

LEMON: Go ahead, Carl. Sorry about that.

BERNSTEIN: This is deliberate. This is his basic methodology and has been a throughout his presidency. And we shouldn't fall for it. What this president does -- first of all, it is the big lie.

All of these conspiracies, all the birther stuff, all of what we saw at the hijacked Republican convention, hijacked the White House, a criminal activity on the White House lawn, in violation of the hatch act. The big lie. That is what this president is. He is the big lie.

And the methodology is to throw out so many of these conspiracy theories, so many littler lies, smaller lies, but it's all one big lie, and we can't keep up with it.

Not the press, not the voters, not the citizens because he knows what he's doing his cynicism is so great and he is so effective at this that we are unable in a democracy -- we've never had a president that has seized the levers of power in such a cynical way that it is escaped the guardrails of our system.

It didn't happen with Nixon. The system reigned Nixon in. It reeled him in. Nixon tried some awful things. He couldn't get away with it. This president has gotten away with everything, and he continues to, and we are in the process of an election that looks like it's not going to be perhaps a legitimate election.

He's taken the postal service and made it an instrument of his re- election. He's taken all these institutions for his own personal gain, his family's personal gain.

[23:10:03]

We're in territory we've never come close to, and the American people -- especially Republicans -- have got to wake up to this danger because it's a danger to American democracy. It's not about Joe Biden. This is something fundamental that is undermining all we have built in this country since the American Revolution. There's never been anything comparable.

LEMON: Well, um, I say you're right about that. Carl, always a pleasure. You're on a lot. Miles this is I think your second appearance on the program, at least when I'm here. Love having you on, please come back. I want to get your perspective more on this. We'll have a longer conversation. Thank you, gentleman. Have a grade evening.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you.

TAYLOR: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Yes. Coronavirus cases in this country soaring past 6 million while Dr. Fauci is being sidelined. That amid new questions about the president's health as he and he's doctors say a mini stroke did not prompt his unexpected trip to Walter Reed last year. The president is up tonight on Twitter talking about this right now. Oh, my gosh. We'll be right back. We're going to discuss it.

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[23:15:00]

LEMON: The coronavirus death toll in this country now passing 184,000 people. More than 6 million Americans have been infected. But instead of listening to Dr. Fauci, sources tell CNN that the president is relying on Dr. Scott Atlas, a former Fox News guest known for pushing strategies that are at odds with the medical community.

Let's discuss now. Dr. Leana Wen is here. She is an Emergency Room Physician and former Baltimore city health commissioner. Doctor, good to see you. Thanks so much for doing this.

Doctor, Dr. Fauci is getting sidelined by Dr. Atlas who now has the president's ear and the White House seemed resigned to what they see as inevitable, the virus is spreading. Are you worried that the president hired someone who only tells him what he wants to hear?

LEANA WEN, FORMER HEALTH COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE: Absolutely, I am first of all very concerned that Dr. Fauci may be getting sidelined. He is the top infectious disease doctor in our country, one of the foremost public health expert in the world. He's also consistently spoken the truth about this pandemic and has been really humble all the way explaining what it is that we know, what it is that we don't know, and as a result has gained the public's trust.

Now to hear that President Trump may be listening to this other doctor whom has talked about theories like the herd immunity theory, this very dangerous concept that would result in us infecting potentially hundreds of millions of people and having 1 million to 2 million Americans die in order to get there, I mean, to know that that's who the president is listening to in the middle of this pandemic is really concerning, because we should be letting public health lead and not trying to silence the voice of science.

LEMON: I should tell that Dr. Atlas is denying that he is pushing a herd community strategy. This is what he said about that. This was March. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT ATLAS, PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: It's important for people to understand medical science to know that natural human immunity of populations that is sometimes called herd immunity, it's very important that that develops. That's how viruses are eradicated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Dr. Atlas supported herd immunity recently and now the administration officials say that the policies he's pushing could achieve the same result. Explain why officials are so concerned with this approach, Dr. Wen.

WEN: Well, it's unclear exactly, what is the strategy of the Trump administration at this point. Basically they're saying we should re- open no matter what. We should have kids come back to school no matter what. We should re-open businesses, no matter what. We should have bars open, even though we know that indoor bars are very high risk for transmitting the infection. In essence it seems like what they're doing is to say, we hope that there will be a vaccine soon, but in the meantime let's just -- let it rip.

Let everybody go about doing their normal activities and see what happens. But we see the impact of this. We see skyrocketing numbers of infections in certain areas. We're seeing that just as other places are able to control their infection with mitigations measures like mask wearing and restricting indoor gatherings that other places are surging. And what this results in, Don, is preventable deaths. And we should not let that happen on our watch.

LEMON: So Dr. Wen, Admiral Brett Giroir, the administration's coronavirus testing czar, he says that he doesn't live in a utopian world where everybody can get a test every day. He says he lives in the real world. He might be annoyed that he is still being asked about the testing but the reality is, the country still needs more testing and faster testing.

WEN: That's exactly right. I think that Admiral Giroir also has things backwards. We should stop justifying why it is that we don't need more tests. We all know that we need more tests. So, why don't we figure out, what is the number that we need? And then figure out a strategy to get there. And actually, Admiral Giroir does live in this utopia world, because he's around the White House.

And in the White House, they do have daily test for everyone who needs one, who wants one, who was there. We have major league sports that have these daily test. We have universities that now are having twice weekly or three times weekly test.

So, this is something that is possible. And I can tell you as a parent, I would feel so much better about sending my toddler back to preschool if I knew that all the students and staff and teachers were getting tested all the time. So, if that's possible, why don't we aim to get there?

LEMON: I wonder if that's too much to expect. I mean, should we have testing like you just mentioned this utopian society because he lives in -- he's around the White House. Should we have it for frontline workers and teachers and essential workers?

[23:20:00]

WEN: We absolutely should. We should have it for individuals who are higher risk as a start. If there are relatively scarce resources we need to allocate the resources to those who needed the most, but then we also need this level of widespread screening testing.

At least 50 percent of all the spread of COVID-19 is from people who don't have any symptoms. Who don't know that they are infected and their unknown spreading it. So there's no way for us to contain the infection unless we can implement that kind of widespread surveillance testing, which is something that we just don't have yet.

LEMON: Dr. Wen, thank you, be safe. I appreciate it, I'll see you soon.

WEN: Thank you.

LEMON: Now, I want to get to Dianne Gallagher now with the very latest on the setback for a potential coronavirus therapy pushed by President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A National Institutes of Health panel says doctors should not use convalescent plasma as a standard of care for COVID-19 until more study has been done. This is a little more than a week after the FDA issued an emergency use authorization and President Trump praised it as a historic breakthrough.

TRUMP: It's an incredible rate of success. Today's action will dramatically expand access to this treatment.

GALLAGHER: But the National Institutes of Health saying in a statement today, quote, there were insufficient data to recommend either for or against the use of convalescent plasma for the treatment of COVID-19. There are now three potential coronavirus vaccines in phase three human trials here in the United States, but Dr. Anthony Fauci is cautioning that proven safety is far more important than speed when it comes to a vaccine.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALERGY AND INFECTOUS DISEASE: You don't want a vaccine to be available widely to the American public unless it's been shown to be safe and effective.

GALLAGHER: After saying that a vaccine could be authorized for emergency use or even approved before human trials are completed, FDA commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn now says he consider resigning if he was pushed to authorize a vaccine before it was ready.

STEPHEN HAHN, FDA COMMISIONER: I think all options are on the table. With respect, I hope we won't be in that position.

GALLAGHER: If one is approved it's expected to be initially be in short supply.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of the companies that are in phase three trials are also saying that they'll have to do vaccines that are not single dose, but double dose vaccines.

GALLAGHER: So, who gets it? Well, today an independent committee appointed to help advice the federal government released a four-phase proposal that starts with health-care workers, first responder and people with conditions that make them especially vulnerable to COVID- 19.

As testing totals decline, Admiral Brett Giroir, who leads U.S. testing efforts announced $5 antigen tests will be sent out to states starting in a few weeks but also said he was tired of being asked about cheap quick tests for every American.

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, HHS ASSISTANT SECRETARY: I don't live in a utopian world. I live in the real world. And the real world had no test for this new disease when this first started.

GALLAGHER: Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, responded on Twitter, saying that's what White House staff and major league sports get now. Sure, let's call it utopia when it's for the less privileged.

The average number of daily cases and deaths have declined over the past seven days. As a coronavirus surge now appears to be moving from the south to the Midwest. But officials are concerned about what Labor Day weekend might bring, since cases spiked in many areas in the week after Memorial Day weekend and the Fourth of July.

MAYOR SYLVESTER TURNER (D), HOUSTON, TX: As we approach Labor Day, let me encourage people to be mindful. The virus is still looking for you. And so, if you come together, then you will give it a home.

GALLAGHER: Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Dianne, thank you so much. New questions about President Trump's health after a book says Vice President Pence was put on standby to assume the president's power while he made an unplanned trip to Walter Reed Medical Center. The president denying again tonight that he had a stroke. Plus, a Democratic group is warning Election Day could look like a Trump landslide, but those results won't be what they seem.

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[23:25:00]

LEMON: The president tweeting again tonight denying that he had a mini stroke. This after he and his doctor released a statement earlier today denying that he had a stroke, mini stroke or cardiovascular emergency. The thing is, no news organizations reported the president had a stroke. But there is new reporting about an unannounced trip that he took to Walter Reed Medical Center last year according to a copy of The New York Times reporter Michael Schmidt's upcoming book that CNN obtained.

Vice President Pence was put on standby to temporarily assume the powers of the presidency if Trump had to undergo a procedure that would have required him to be anesthetized. At the time of this visit, the White House explained it away, saying that it was for a quick exam and labs as part of his annual physical out of anticipation for a very busy 2020. But Pence was asked about the reporting earlier today, and he didn't deny it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't recall being told to be on standby. I was informed that the president had a doctor's appointment, and --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to clear it up.

PENCE: I got to tell you. Part of this job is you're always on standby if you're vice president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, he said he didn't recall, and that he said the president had a doctor's appointment, the president not having that either, though, tweeting tonight that Pence, who you just heard tell you, that as V.P. you're always an standby, quote, was never put on standby by the president.

Well, let's discuss now with CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He served as the former Vice President Dick Cheney's cardiologist. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for joining us.

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Hi, Don.

[23:29:57]

LEMON: So, you know, I don't know. The president in his new tweet tonight saying that he was at Walter Reed to complete his physical. But back in November, his press secretary said that he was there to begin portions of his annual routine -- his routine annual physical. And he himself said the same thing in a tweet at the time. Begin phase one, will complete next year.

REINER: Oh, I can. They were lying then and they're lying now.

LEMON: OK.

REINER: I had a conversation today with a former White House physician who also -- you know, laughs at the story.

Look, very briefly, the White House has a very prodigious medical capacity. In the executive office building right across West Executive Avenue, there is a very large clinic with all kinds of equipment. And in the White House itself, in the residence just a couple of floors below the president's bedroom, is the president's physician's office with exam rooms and equipment there.

So, if the president just needed a quick exam and some labs, all he had to do is get in the elevator that takes him down to the basement of his house and that could all have been done. But yet, he went on a Saturday afternoon unannounced with his physician jumping in the car with him, which is a break in protocol, which is never done for tactical reasons.

And now we hear that when he did that, the vice president was put on alert that he might need to assume the powers of the presidency under the provision of the 25th Amendment.

So, Don, let me ask you a question. If I tell you, stand by, Don, later tonight you might need to be president, you might remember that a few months later, right?

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: So, Vice President Pence's non-denial denial today is really very disingenuous at best.

LEMON: Yeah, I don't recall -- yeah. All right, so listen, he also claims tonight that it was a short visit. We know that that day when it happened, that it was over two hours, about two hours and 15 minutes. Does that count as a short visit?

REINER: Well, we don't know what happened to him. But what we know is that if he left the White House on a Saturday afternoon to go to Walter Reed unannounced, he went because something was happening that either couldn't be treated at the White House or couldn't be diagnosed at the White House.

Now, I won't speculate, you know, what that is, but, you know, no one mentioned today about mini-strokes. The president was sort of auto defending that. I don't know what happened to the president, but something did, and the White House is going out of their way not to tell the public.

They need to explain what happened to the president. This is an election season. The public is entitled to know about the health of the president, and we know very little about this man.

Mind you, his sort of clearance letter when he ran for president four years ago was written by Dr. Bornstein, who later admitted that the president himself had written the letter.

That's the famous letter that essentially says that if elected, he would be the healthiest man to assume the office of the president and that all his tests were exceedingly positive. The president wrote his own letter.

We know nothing about his health. And yet he carries the nuclear launch codes, yet he manages the worst public health disaster in the nation's history. We should know something about this man's health and we don't, and something happened to him last year.

LEMON: OK. So let me -- this is what the -- Trump instructing his doctor to release a statement. Here is what he writes. He says, "I can confirm that President Trump has not experienced nor been evaluated for a cerebrovascular accident (stroke), transient ischemic attack (mini-stroke), or any acute cardiovascular emergencies, as have been incorrectly reported in the media." So, they're denying a number of different issues here that it could have been assuming that this letter is the truth. By the way, as I said in the beginning, no media organization had been reporting that there was actually a stroke or mini-strokes but there's a denial.

REINER: Right.

LEMON: What concerns would remain with you if this is the truth?

REINER: Well, all kinds of things that the president could have been experiencing that would prompt an emergency room visit, which is basically what that was -- but what's noticeably absent from Commander Conley's statement today is what actually happened to the president.

[23:34:56]

REINER: It would be very easy for him to simply say, look, the president didn't have a stroke, he didn't have a heart attack, and he went there because he had some back pain and wanted to get x-rays. OK, now you're telling us what happened to the president.

Yet they're sticking with this nonsense that the president on a Saturday afternoon was bored so he thought that he would go and have some bloods drawn, which could be done in his bedroom, basically, and he will be back in a couple of hours after he has some blood draw at Walter Reed.

It fails the laugh test and the people who live in that world, the docs who have worked in the White House are laughing at this.

LEMON: Doctor, always a pleasure. Thank you.

REINER: My pleasure, Don. Thanks.

LEMON: So a firm funded by Michael Bloomberg says it could take days, if not weeks, to tally all the mail-in election votes. And they're sounding alarms about the misinformation, the chaos that could come in between. Plus, Ohio's Republican secretary of state debunks the false mail-in voting claims floating around on the internet and being floated by the president, as well. That's next.

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[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Mail-in voting expected to soar in the middle of a pandemic. And now, Michael Bloomberg's political data and analytics firm, Hawkfish, is warning the number of mail-in votes could make it look like a landslide victory for Trump on election day, even if he actually loses once all the mail-in and absentee votes are counted.

Joining me now to discuss is the chairman of Hawkfish, Gary Briggs. Good evening. OK, man, you just started something, you guys, here.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Good to see you. Thank you. So help us get through this, Gary. So, you're sounding the alarm bells, warning of a possible -- you call it red mirage on election night. Explain the concerns that you're raising with this model.

GARY BRIGGS, CHAIRMAN, HAWKFISH: Well, look, I mean, I think one of the things we want people to understand is that in a year like we've never seen, we're going to have an election like we've never seen.

The number of people that we would expect, I will take it to how we think about it, the number of people we expect to vote by mail is going to be historic. And so what we did was a few weeks ago, we went out and did a survey. We surveyed about 17,400 people across the country, which was enough for us to be able to have projectable samples into every state and also ask people about who they plan to vote for and their party.

As we look at that, it became pretty clear to us that there is much more Democrats than Republicans are planning to vote by mail and that has significant implications for what Election Day is like versus what the election will be like.

LEMON: OK. So, it's scary. That's what people are saying. Some reaction has been that it's too alarmist. I do want to ask you why your survey includes Florida as a state we might not know about. I mean, they have a history of counting ballots relative quickly there, except, you know.

BRIGGS: Yeah. Sure. I mean, I think what we went through and looked was try to understand, you know, historically, how fast results come in and looked in terms of recent history.

And as we look at that, even if you go back, for example, and look at the congressional races back in 2018, the night of -- in 2018, I think the thought was that about the Democrats picked up about 21, 22 House seats. And by the time all the votes were counted, they picked up 40.

So, we just know that the way that the results are coming in now is very different. That's going to be exacerbated by the fact that so many people (INAUDIBLE) vote by mail.

LEMON: So, you know, except for the hanging chad situations is what I was going to say.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: So, but listen, CNN's own polling from mid-August shows an outstanding partisan divide in how people intend to vote. Six percent of -- Trump supporters say that they plan to vote in person on Election Day. Fifty-three percent of Biden supporters say that they prefer voting by mail.

So, if we are going to see this kind of red mirage or blue shift, what should we do to prepare for this?

BRIGGS: Well, I mean, I think a couple things. One is, you know, I think our point really is we want people to make sure that all votes are counted. That's really, you know, primary and why we want people to understand the nature of this year's election and how results are going to come in.

What we're trying to do is encourage people for their own state to go to the secretary of state's office, their website, or go to iwillvote.com, and understand, one, if you're registered, and two, what is the particulars of your state?

So, if you can vote by mail, get that in early. Make sure that when you get the ballot, you fill it out and send it back right away.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

BRIGGS: We just want people to realize that because of the nature of the pandemic we're in, because of the nature of how ballots are going to be more complicated because of the mail-in process, we want people to be ready for what's going to be different this year, and that's really our main point, just to have all votes be counted.

LEMON: But, Gary, is it also possible that people will suit up with their masks, be more willing to go to the polls as we got more accustomed to life under this pandemic? People have gotten accustomed to going out but just masking up and distancing.

BRIGGS: look, I think the hope is that if you can, if you're willing and able and physically you can protect yourself, that you do go and you vote in person. And also, you should know, Don, this is a scenario where we asked people, based upon the poll, what their intentions were, whether they are going to vote by in person or they are going to vote by mail, and for whom they were planning to vote and their political party.

[23:45:07]

BRIGGS: And through that scenario, we then projected out what would happen by state and how the results might come in, granted, you know, that the nature of what will actually happen on Election Day could be quite different.

But the point in why we're saying this now is we want people to get prepared. And that is really the point of this idea, the red mirage, is understand if we said nothing and things just went forward as they are right now, what could be is that on election night, we are just used to, you know, folks like you coming out in 2:00 in the morning and saying so and so one, this year, we just don't think and know actually that that is not going to be the case.

LEMON: Well, to him, that would be lovely, wouldn't it?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: -- idea. So, first --

LEMON: You could go to bed early that night.

LEMON: -- blue wave. Now, now we have red mirage. It is now in the Lexicon. So we will see what happens. Thank you, Gary. I appreciate it.

BRIGGS: Thanks for having me, Don.

LEMON: I want to bring in now Ohio's secretary of state, Frank LaRose. Thank you, secretary of state. I appreciate you joining us here. So you just heard that conversation with Gary. You say that your state will be able to tabulate mail-in ballots on Election Day.

FRANK LAROSE, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: You know, Ohioans have three great choices. We have four weeks of absentee voting, four weeks of early voting, and of course, in-person Election Day voting.

The good news about the way we run things here in Ohio is that our board on election can begin processing those absentee ballots as soon as they come in. This is why we are encouraging Ohioans to get their ballots in as soon as they receive them and really help us flatten the curve at the board of elections, if you will, so that we don't receive the avalanche of ballots all at the last minute.

You know, in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, and others, they can't even start opening the ballots until Election Day. So, there are some real concerns in those states rightfully so.

LEMON: Yeah. That's a -- whew, man. He just said 2:00 a.m. That would be great.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: -- if that actually does happen on election night or the morning after. So if needed, OK? So, what changes can these states make to speed up getting the results faster?

LAROSE: I think states should do what we are doing in Ohio. We are augmenting the staff at the board of elections with extra personnel. We are bringing in extra mail handling equipment. Even something as simple as the machine that cuts open envelopes can really help improve efficiency at the boards of elections.

And then, of course, again, the voters have a responsibility to get their absentee ballots in as soon as they ca. We have also redesigned the form to try to make it easier. We know we are going to see a lot of first-time absentee ballot voters this year. We want to make it an easy experience for them.

Hopefully, we can start a lifelong habit because Ohioans, both Democrats and Republicans for close to 20 years have trusted absentee voting. We normally see 20 or 25 percent of our ballots come in by mail. We are confident that when that number goes higher, we are going to be ready for it.

LEMON: OK. So, as you know, I don't need to tell you, the president has been hammering mail-in voting. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you do all mail-in voting ballots, you are asking for fraud. People steal them out of mailboxes. People print them and then they signed them and they give them in.

Absentee ballots are great. Absentee ballots have to be requested. They go through a process. They get them. But the universal mail-in ballots have turned out to be a disaster.

I don't think the post offices prepared for anything like this. They are going to mail out 80 million ballots. It's impossible. They have no idea. Who is mailing them? Mostly Democrat states and Democratic governors. Well, supposing they don't mail them to republican neighborhoods.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, listen. You are a Republican and you support mail-in ballots. Do you believe President Trump is trying to undermine this democratic process? What do you think?

LAROSE: Don, what I support is the process that we have had for close to two decades in Ohio. I appreciate him making that distinction between absentee voting and that sort of universal mail-in process that other states have.

Here is what we know. Ohioans trust this process, have for many years on both sides of the aisle because of the safeguards we have in place. You have to prove your identity when you request your ballot with a signature, with your driver's license number or your last four of your social.

We don't allow ballot harvesting in Ohio. That is prohibited. We allow voters to track their ballots so you know when it's coming and when it's going.

We also, in Ohio, you know, maintain the accuracy of voter rolls, which is key to protecting the integrity of the process. Because of that, Ohioans know they can trust it and it's easy for Ohioans. We are sending out as we speak 7.8 million absentee ballot requests.

Every registered voter in the state is going to get one. It's easy to fill it out and send it back in. If that is the route you choose, absentee voting, we ask you to get your ballot in right away.

LEMON: Secretary, some more important business. That is the best in office or home setup I have seen. So, could you please give our other guests some advice? It's done very well. You look completely official. I would vote for you. I'm just saying. I don't know your politics or whatever, but I am just saying that.

[23:50:00]

LEMON: It looks great. Thank you. I appreciate you joining us and best of luck to you. Thanks so much.

LAROSE: Thanks, Don. Have a great evening.

LEMON: You, too. So, breaking news tonight, a historic loss for Kennedy in Massachusetts Senate primary. The results, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here's the breaking news we have for you right now. Senator Ed Markey is defeating challenger Congressman Joe Kennedy, humbling the Democratic Party's family dynasty that had never before lost an election in Massachusetts.

[23:55:03]

Kennedy, the grandson of Robert F. Kennedy, told supporters he had called Markey to concede the race on Tuesday evening. The 74-year-old Markey won the primary by campaigning as the most progressive person in the race.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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