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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Don't Mind Health Guidelines; COVID-19 Continue to Take Lives; Russia Trying to Interfere U.S. Elections; GOP Member Not Voting for Trump; Joe Biden Visits Blake Family. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired September 03, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

WILLIAM LI, PRESIDENT & MEDICAL DIRECTOR, ANGIOGENESIS FOUNDATION: -- what is actually happening and we think that this virus is in fact infecting blood vessels and the blood vessels connect all the organs. So, some of the symptoms, Diana, that you're describing may very well be due to the effect on blood vessels called an endothelial. This is kind of an inflammation of the blood vessels.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: So. Diana is nodding because she's been hearing this. So, let's do this because I'm out of time and I don't want Don to give me a new malty known as a punch in the nose.

But this is a community. I'm going to stay on this as Dr. Li comes up with research that squares enough to present to the audience. Diana, as you learn things that are working for people --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're turning their own -- Li, I would love to come present when we have it ready in a couple of weeks. We just did a huge study at 4,000 --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I'm a call away. I'm a call away. I'm all yours. This matters too much, not just to me, but there are too many people like me. I'm one of the lucky ones. Diana, good luck to you, continued slow healing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Doctor, thank you for becoming part of the family. We'll be together again soon.

Thank you all for watching. CNN Tonight with D. Lemon right now. I've told you that I wasn't crazy about these things that were happening to me and that other people were getting it. A 100,000 people are in her group.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You're trying to convince me that you're not crazy?

CUOMO: No, I may be, but not because of this.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: No. I never but you know -- you know I never said you were crazy. Have I ever said that?

CUOMO: When I told you. I was having these crazy symptoms, you were like, I know you were talking to Christina, like, you better get him checked out --

LEMON: I know.

CUOMO: -- and not for COVID.

LEMON: We're not supposed to talk about that. Christina, Sanjay, other people, I can't tell you who because I don't want to give their confidence.

CUOMO: But, listen, there's no question.

LEMON: We were really worried about you.

CUOMO: No question.

LEMON: You know that? How did you know that? Who told you?

CUOMO: See, listen, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after me. But listen, look, the depression for me is definitely something that I got to work through. I'm not new with it, but these doctors are totally in the dark, Don.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I'm not blaming them. It's not a criticism. I'm saying it's a learning curve.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: So, she gets people together, COVID onset glaucoma. Does she look like somebody who should have glaucoma? People who are getting diabetes and different tachycardia, their heart is all crazy out of rhythm from COVID.

LEMON: Two questions for you. How much of it is do you think that it is, that it causes the underlying conditions to come forward? Things that may happen to you later on in life may come forward because the disease or the virus, excuse me, has forced your body to deal with it or brought it to the fore. Do you think that's possible?

CUOMO: I think as my -- as my boy duffer would say, it's the both of them.

LEMON: It's the both.

CUOMO: I think that this blood vessel-attacking virus causes some of these things and exacerbates other things. Because of how taxed it is on your system. And that's why the idea of anybody getting this if they don't have to is a shame.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And that's why I got so hot tonight about the president making jokes about the mask.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Man, it is not a joke. It's like the only thing we've got.

LEMON: Everywhere I go. Masks.

CUOMO: You got a lot of masks, man.

LEMON: People send me masks. This is a --

CUOMO: You getting paid to wear those masks?

LEMON: No, no.

CUOMO: Is that the one with the dog on it again?

LEMON: It's Rhoback.

CUOMO: A lot of stuff with the dog on it.

LEMON: This is my favorite sportswear company. Yes, it's Rhoback.

CUOMO: And I don't know why you have dogs like that when your dogs look nothing like that.

LEMON: It looks like yours. No, but I do wonder -- listen, I got to move on. Because you know we're in trouble like for the rest of the week. People said since we did our late show, we're so used to talking to each other for three hours. We think like three minutes --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It is the most-watched part of the day every day.

LEMON: So, but I wonder, not that -- listen, I'm not underestimating or discounting, but how much do you think it is psychosomatic, meaning the brain has -- because you know the brain -- I've been sick.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Very strong.

LEMON: You don't know -- you don't know what it is.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: Most diseases we know how to fix it. A cold, you know how to fix a cold. But this you don't know to do. So, every single thing you become worried about it and you become psychosomatic.

CUOMO: I wish there were a little aspect of it of hypochondria. I wish.

LEMON: You don't think that's part of it?

CUOMO: I mean, I've been wishing this stuff away, I've been pretending it's not there.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Now I'm not. Now I'm taking it on all. But I don't see any aspect of it. Look, will you have people who fake it?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Hundred percent. You always do.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But I'm telling you, 100,000 people coming together because they think they're going crazy --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- from having things they can't believe could be derivative of a virus -

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- and it's no coincidence.

LEMON: Well, I got to tell you one thing. You know, you got, you gained your weight back in more, I saw you in those chips tonight, I want to tell you.

CUOMO: I didn't slow you down. Stuck your hand right to that damn bag licking your, and you get another one.

LEMON: I love you.

CUOMO: You didn't watch Seinfeld. I love you, Don Lemon. Make your witness.

LEMON: All right. I'll see you, brother. Have a good one. I'll talk to you soon. I love you too.

CNN Tonight. That's what this is, and I'm Don Lemon. I thank you so much for joining us.

So, I saw just a little bit earlier that Chris had said that there were the tale of two Kenoshas.

[22:04:59]

Well, there's two Americas and they are in stark contrast. You know we've had two Americas for quite some time, especially when it comes to people of color, right, versus the larger culture. Two different Americas, two different perspectives and then people sort of caught up and became more aware during the George Floyd situation.

But we have two different Americas in direct contrast tonight. I'm talking about Joe Biden and President Trump. They exemplify these two Americas politically that we're having right now.

They returned to the pandemic version of the campaign trail, one wearing a mask and socially distancing, one maskless in front of a crowd, tale of two Americas, Biden traveling to Kenosha, meeting with Jacob Blake's family, talking on the phone with them two days after the president went there and did neither.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had an opportunity to spend some time with Jacob on the phone. He's out of ICU. We spoke for about 15 minutes, his brother and two sisters, his dad and his mom on the telephone. And I spoke to them a lot before, but we spent time together -- my wife. And he talked about how nothing was going to defeat him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And then there is this president going to Pennsylvania for a rambling speech in front of a packed crowd. Shouting and cheering with no masks, bragging about the stock market. Even though, by the way, the Dow and the NASDAQ plummeted today, their worst day since June.

Millions of Americans, millions of Americans are suffering. They suffer from hunger and eviction. We've been telling you about these, the folks. We're going to have an update for you on that tonight. People are suffering, homelessness, eviction.

This president bragging that we are rounding the turn on the pandemic, demanding that states reopen, and joking around about holding a crowded rally in the middle of the virus that has killed more than 86,000 Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're doing the hangar thing now because the arenas can't do it because of the pandemic for a little while. But in certain ways, I like this better. I don't have to travel. I get off the plane, I make the speech, I get the hell out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Can you imagine? Get the hell out of there? That's what this is about for this president? Give the speech and then get the hell away from the people you're elected to serve. Wow, that's hilarious. But just listen. This is Mike Pence, what he says today about his boss without even a trace of irony. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I always -- I always tell people that to know President Trump is to -- is to know someone whose word is his bond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He said that with a straight face. His word is his bond. Yes, listen, you almost have to laugh. Come on, except this is serious. This president has lied more than 20,000 times, according to the Washington Post's count. Remember when he promised over and over during the 2016 campaign to build a wall on the southern border and to get Mexico to pay for it? He said it again tonight.

Here we are. OK? This is the truth four years later, five miles only, five, four years, five miles of new wall have been put up in areas where no barriers previously existed. The other is replacement fencing, but he likes to count that. It's already there. And Mexico what? Not paying for it. Mexico didn't pay for it, nothing.

This president repeatedly lies about what we have all heard him say for so long, repeatedly. Tries to deny his own words. Remember when he asked whether a powerful light or injecting disinfectant in the body might kill the coronavirus? Of course, you do. You have to remember it. Even though his apologists say he never said that.

[22:10:02]

OK, you like to show it them on your phone when they say that to you. Remember when he walked that back days later, claiming he was being sarcastic? Well, he was not.

Now he's lying about mail-in voting, doubling down again tonight on encouraging Americans to vote twice even though that is illegal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And these mail-in ballots, these mail-in ballots are a disgrace and they know it.

(CROWD BOOING)

TRUMP: Sign your mail-in ballot, OK? You sign it. And send it in. And then you have to follow it. And if on election day or early voting that is not tabulated and counted, you go vote. And then if so some reason after that -- it shouldn't take that long. It comes in. They're not going to be able to tabulate it because you will have voted. But you have to make sure your vote counts because the only way they're going to beat us is by doing that kind of stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, I'm going to say it again for you. I'm going to say it again, if you're not listening, maybe you're doing something. I'm going to say it again. It's illegal to vote twice. And there was a time when this president might have said the same thing. Because I want you to listen to what he said just a few months ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: The level of dishonesty with Democrat voting is unbelievable. If you told a Republican to vote twice, they'd get sick at even the thought of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The level of dishonesty with Democrats -- should be Democratic voting, but that's OK. He's not very good with grammar. Huh? The level of dishonesty with Democrats? Let's listen again to what the president said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They'll go out and they'll vote, and they're going to have to go and check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way because if it tabulates then they won't be able to do that. So, let them send it in and let them go vote. And if the system is as good as they say it is. Then obviously, they won't be able to vote. If it isn't tabulated, they won't be able to vote. So that's the way it is. And that's what they should do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you ever feel like you're watching a parody, like the president on a show? The music and everything. I feel like someone wrote -- it's almost like a curb your enthusiasm version of the president, like a -- what do they call it a docuseries? A comedic docuseries, where it's not really the president, but he acts like the president and he says funny stuff and bumbles and stumbles his way through, all of a sudden, you're like, how did he get to that and then it's like -- that's what this feels like every single day.

So in the face of all that, in the face of the President of the United States -- by the way, it's real. He is President of the United States, encouraging people to vote twice and casting doubt on mail-in voting in the middle of a pandemic. This is pretty stunning.

The Department of Homeland Security issuing an intelligence bulletin warning states that Russia has sought to sow doubt about the integrity of our election by amplifying criticisms that mail-in voting will be -- will result in widespread fraud.

That warning coming just one day after the president tried to get you to vote twice. In a -- what he implied was an effort to test mail-in voting. There's a good way to test it. Like you could do that yourself, set it up so that people can test it so that it could work for everyone, or you could get people to do things, try to get them to do something that's illegal, right?

And one day after the president -- the president's attorney general attacked mail-in voting, as his words, playing with fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: There are several states that only have mail- in voting, including a Republican state -- WILLIAM BARR, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Wolf, this is playing

with fire. This is playing with fire. We're a very closely divided country here, and if people have to have confidence in the results of the election and the legitimacy of the government and people trying to change the rules to this -- to this methodology, which as a matter of logic is very open to fraud and coercion, is reckless and dangerous, and the people are playing with fire.

BARR: Well, I will point out there are five states that only have mail-in voting, including Utah and Colorado, Washington State, Oregon, Hawaii, and they -- they've reported over the years they've had virtually no problems, but who's trying to change the rules right now?

BARR: I would say the people who want to go to mass mail-in ballots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Well, there's a lot oh get into tonight. Don't have time to go through all that. I'm just going to -- so the attorney general and the president attacked mail-in voting and then the very next day homeland security warns that Russia is doing the same thing.

[22:15:02]

So how exactly does that work? Do the Russians pick up on what the president is saying? And amplify it because it suits their ends? Or do both parties just want to divide America so they do the same thing to achieve that? How sad a thing to say about the American president is that? Seriously, think about that.

It's not the first time that these interests have aligned. We all remember this, this was during the last presidential election, remember? The one that Russia interfered in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That's what should happen, like, after ever sound bite. But it's real. The president later tried to claim that was a joke. See? So much for his word being his bond. This is the kind of president that we have got right now. A president who tells Americans to do something illegal, to vote twice, claiming it would be a way to test the system, even though it would be, again, blatantly illegal.

Are you seeing what's happening here? I always say don't fall for the okey-doke, so let me point this out, the groundwork is being laid. He's laying the groundwork here. Do you see that? He threatened to delay the November election even though he has absolutely no legal authority to do that. He has thrown around the baseless charge the election will be rigged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What people are now looking at is am I right, but not me, are all these stories right about the fact that these elections will be fraudulent, they'll be fixed, they'll be rigged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He suggested that he may not accept election results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm not a good loser. I don't like to lose. I don't lose too often. I don't like to lose.

CHRIS WALLACE, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: But are you gracious?

TRUMP: You don't know until you see. It depends. I think mail-in voting is going to rig the election. I really do.

WALLACE: Are you suggesting that you might not accept the results of the election?

TRUMP: I have to see. Look, Hillary Clinton asked me the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He just wants you to do what he does. What's so wrong about that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We want to have an election where people actually go in and what's your name? My name is so and so, boom, you sign the book, like I've been doing for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the president is claiming that he has been voting in- person for years. Not recently. The fact is he has voted absentee in New York in 2018 and in Florida's primary in March. OK? Melania Trump tried to vote absentee for New York mayor in 2017 but didn't sign the envelope. Whoopsie.

The old do what I say, not what I do strategy. And let's not forget what happened when Donald Trump tried to vote in person in 2004 and was turned away from one polling place after another. This is an Access Hollywood video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Do I have to go to a different place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a little drama at the polling booth. We like that. TRUMP: Do me a favor, double check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have the paperwork that has his address.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Double check.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me see where is that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm calling my lawyer right now.

TRUMP: Go ahead. Work on it.

Wherever you want us to go. Where do we go?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To 520.

TRUMP: Five-twenty Park Avenue. OK. I like that location better.

Hi, folks. How are you doing? Make sure there's no cheating here, right? They don't have my name. Can you believe this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't have it in this book.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not in my book neither.

TRUMP: All right. So, it's not here, right?

Hi, fellas, how are you? Do you have my name here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If his name's not on these rolls, there will be a huge combustion in the air.

TRUMP: I'm going to fill out the absentee ballot. And I've just voted. At least you can say the Trumpster doesn't give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

TRUMP: Right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The Trumpster doesn't give up. Guess what? Would have been deprived of his right to vote if it wasn't for that absentee ballot. Same thing could happen to more people. I'm not on the rolls here, I'm not -- but I know I'm registered, making it easier for all Americans to vote, the right to vote.

So I am probably -- the Trumpster doesn't give up. I mean, come on. You can't make this stuff up. Sorry, it's Thursday. It's been a long week.

[22:20:00]

I'm going to say this probably a lot, every day between now and the election -- election day and beyond. This president is trying to sow doubt about our free and fair election. That's what he's doing. He throws around outrageous claims that no other president would. Don't fall for it.

And you know why he's doing it? Keep this in mind. Because he's afraid that he will lose. Vote early, vote, whatever your choice even if it's him, but vote. Don't be suckered by all of this chaos that he is sowing here.

All of this is happening -- the reason that we're talking about mail- in voting is because this is happening as the coronavirus is spreading, is raging, the death toll in this country, over 186,000 tonight. And if one thing we know about this pandemic, that masks save lives. So why is the president mocking Joe Biden for wearing one?

Dr. William Schaffner and Amesh Adalja -- sorry, I screwed up your name. I'll get it right on the other side. Adalja. They're both here. We'll see you right after the break.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: COVID-19 has now taken more than 186,000 American lives, but tonight the CDC is forecasting that toll will jump, protecting up to 211,000 Americans will die from the virus by the end of this month.

Let's bring in now Dr. William Schaffner, the professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University, and Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease specialist and senior scholar at Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security.

Doctors, good to have both of you on. Again, I apologize for that. I've had you on before but just when you look at it in the prompter sometimes, it doesn't make sense. But anyways, thank you both for joining us.

Dr. Adalja, let me start with you. President Trump was in Pennsylvania tonight. He was speaking to supporters. He mocked Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden for wearing a mask. Let's watch it and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Look, I'm all for it. We have a big weekend -- distance on the weekend and all that stuff. Wear your mask when you're close together in particular, wash your hands, all those things. We have Labor Day weekend coming up.

But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him? Then he makes a speech and he always -- not always, but a lot of times he has it hanging down because you know what? It gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist -- right? No, I'd say -- I'd say this guy got some big issues, hanging them.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, doctor, I mean, what does this -- is this a -- it's not

funny, it's truly stunning because we know what the science shows. Mask saves lives. If everyone wore masks, save up to -- it would save thousands of lives, and the president has the gall to mock Joe Biden for wearing one?

AMESH ADALJA, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: It's disgusting. This is a president whose own coronavirus task force, his own CDC has recommended face coverings, yet he doesn't follow that, and he mocks people for doing it. It's exactly what you don't want in a leader.

And this has been emblematic of the entire Trump response to the coronavirus pandemic from the very beginning. It's really the opposite of how you would respond to any infectious disease emergency, and it's horrible that that's happening in our country.

LEMON: Dr. Schaffner, give me your reaction, too, because the president spoke to a crowd of people, people who weren't socially distancing, probably few masks were in that crowd. Shouldn't the president be leading by example?

WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Well, of course. And Dr. Adalja is exactly on the mark. This is 180 degrees opposite from what he ought to be doing. We need a consistent national philosophy and he has to personify it. He should show people that he's wearing it, and he shouldn't have appearances before crowds of people who are not wearing masks.

That's exactly the wrong thing to do. He's giving permission to people this Labor Day to go out there and be carefree and careless rather than careful.

LEMON: Dr. Adalja, let me bring you back in because I want you to -- check out these coronavirus trends, right? We're going to put them up on the screen, the south and the west seeing declines after peaking in July. The northeast has remained stable for most of the summer, though some states are seeing an increase in cases over the last week, but it is the Midwest that has been steadily increasing since late June. Why are they trending in the wrong direction?

ADALJA: What you have is basically roving outbreaks, hot spots that occur in different parts of the country. We see certain parts light up, then there's targeted public health interventions, they come down and then it moves on to another part of the country.

And I think that's going to be the new normal going forward, that we're not going to have complete control of the country, but a very heterogeneous outbreak.

And I think that there are colleges opening. There are lots of different things that are driving outbreaks in different states, but it's just in general that most states do not have the public health infrastructure to deal with the number of cases they're going to get when there is social interaction. And it's a biological fact. We're going to get cases in different parts of the country. LEMON: Yes. Dr. Schaffner, let's talk about Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci is

saying it's conceivable that a vaccine could be ready as early as next month, but not likely. What do you think of that?

SCHAFFNER: I think not likely. This is the first time I've heard Tony be that optimistic. I still say toward the end of the year, beginning of the first quarter. You know, the last thing we want is for vaccine to give the impression that corners have been cut, principally, for political reasons, in order to get the vaccine out there.

We will lose confidence, not only of the people, but of the profession. Also, then we won't get the vaccine utilized the way we want.

LEMON: Dr. Schaffner, Dr. Adalja, thank you. I'll see you soon. Please be safe.

ADALJA: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you.

SCHAFFNER: You too.

[22:29:58]

LEMON: Joe Biden in Kenosha today speaking with the Blake family and Jacob Blake himself. Blake's sister fills us in on what they talked about and how Jacob Blake is doing. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, take this. And I really want you to listen to it. In my this take this segment.

President Trump threatening to cut federal funding to several major U.S. cities all run by Democrats in blue states on the grounds that their leaders are allowing anarchy, violence and destruction, one of those cities, the president's hometown of New York. The president blames the mayor for the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You see Portland and Chicago and you see what's happened in New York. Just in a very short period of time. It's horrible what's happened in New York. I love New York. I come from New York. And when I see -- four years ago, I left, and I could see that there were problems under this mayor. He's a terrible mayor, one of the worst.

[22:35:02]

LEMON: So, this president is -- President Trump not taking responsibility for unrest and violence in the city he grew up in. Why is that an issue? OK, in case you don't know, I want you to look back to 2016. Then candidate Trump blamed President Barack Obama for the violence in his hometown of Chicago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Since President Obama became president, almost 5,000 killings in Chicago. And nobody talks about it.

In the president's hometown of Chicago, more than 2,000 people have been the victim of shootings this year alone.

In a place like Chicago, where thousands of people have been killed, thousands over the last number of years. In fact, almost 4,000 have been killed since Barack Obama became president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So, CNN's own Kaitlan Collins took the president to task on the issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: In 2016, you said it was President Obama's fault that homicides were up in Chicago. So why was it the president's fault then but it's not your fault now?

TRUMP: Chicago is a disaster. The mayor is saying don't come in.

COLLINS: Why was it President Obama's fault in 2016? You credited it as --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Because President Obama was invited in and he did a poor job. President Obama could have gone into Chicago, he could have solved the problem and he didn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the president says that -- Trump says that Obama should have taken care of it. Now in President Trump's America, at the end of his first term, it is safe to say that he has not eliminated violence in his hometown, let alone many other cities across the country. In Trump's America right now.

As usual, he is blaming someone else, mayors, Democrats, anybody else but himself. This is what this shows you. That this president's tough on crime campaign is weak on responsibility.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, just two months until election day, and my next guest is one of the growing number of prominent Republicans throwing their support behind Joe Biden. Former Michigan Governor Rick Snyder, a lifelong Republican, writes this for USA Today.

I will continue to support and stand up for Republican policies and values and support Republican candidates, but I will not support Donald Trump for re-election for president. Trump's answer to people who oppose or disagree with them is to be verbal and abusive. In other words, he is a bully.

Let's discuss now. Governor Rick Snyder is here. Governor, thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us. I was just checking social media. It's still trending, what you are doing. People -- I think many people are pleasantly surprised by it, except for the people who may fall on the side of the person you call a bully, but I appreciate you joining us.

You call the president a bully. Say he only governs to help people who supported him. What was the breaking point for you?

FMR. GOV. RICK SNYDER (R-MI): Well, Don, it's great to be with you because I'm happy to share this. While I wish this never came about, in terms of seeing a circumstance like this, but it's important to talk about.

If you think about it, I go back to the inaugural back in 2016. I was there. And I had hopes. I listened to the president give his address, and all I heard was him speaking to the people that elected him. And that's what he's done for the last four years. If you stop and think about it, we've only become more divisive in this country.

We're the most divisive I've seen in my lifetime. And if you think about it, it's not getting better. We can't keep that up. America is a great country. We can't continue to be a great country if we can't get along with ourselves. So, we need that change. We need someone that can bring us together.

There are several other reasons I have issues with the president, but that's one of the primary ones. I believe in civility. I believe that success happens in this nation when we all work together for the common good. And I believe Joe Biden can deliver on that.

So that's why it became very important. That if you look at it, I talk to young people, I talk to my kids, they all encouraged me to speak up because they said your voice can make a difference. So, I'm doing what I -- I got some good advice from some young people on this one.

LEMON: I don't know what to say to you. I have so much going -- running through my head because it is so refreshing to listen to someone who is sensible. That Americans can disagree on policy. We can disagree on ideology on a number of things.

But to people -- the name-calling and the division and the separation and the childishness and the lack of respect for the office, all of those things, that's -- those are my issues. I am just so grateful to hear someone speak with sense. And it doesn't matter if it's a Democrat or a Republican, but it helps that you are a supporter and that you -- that you're in the president's party. And I commend you for that. Thank you.

SNYDER: Well, I appreciate that, Don. I mean, we need to step back, though. This is where so many people have lost perspective, in my view, because if you look at it, I'm an American first. LEMON: Right.

SNYDER: Before I'm a partisan political person or belonging to a party. And I think too many people have forgotten that.

[22:45:02]

It was interesting. The response I got today really illustrated a lot of that. I had people that I thought were friends that no longer said they were friends of mine. I had other people that didn't like me in the past that all of a sudden, I was their new friend on both extremes. And so that --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I'm still going to challenge you. If you come on, I'm still going to challenge you on ideas and on policy and on all of that, but as far as, you know, I've said this to so many people in my life personally that what you are not realizing, and especially those who are Trump supporters, is that this president has not learned that he is the president of all of America even the people who did not support him or vote for him.

And he has not widened or expanded his tent, which could help him -- could hurt him in the upcoming election. So your first point about, you know, not realizing he is the president of everyone, that is a very valid and should be prominent point.

SNYDER: Well, I've lived that experience. I mean, that's part of what I thought was important about being a good governor, was whether someone voted for you or not, you represented them and you worked hard for them. Because it was an honor and a privilege to have that position and you don't want to let anyone down.

And that's the part that drives me crazy when I just hear people talking about, hey, these people supported me. Or I'm trying to get their support. So that's who I'm campaigning for. I mean, that's what I'm going to do policies for.

LEMON: Yes.

SNYDER: We need to take care of everyone because we need to create an environment where it's not about someone winning and someone losing.

LEMON: Yes.

SNYDER: We need an America where we can win together where we find common ground. We grow the economy together. We benefit together. And I believe Joe Biden can deliver on that.

LEMON: Can I -- can I ask you something -- just real quick if you can give me -- I mean, seriously, a quick answer. Did COVID play -- the response to that play anything into your decision?

SNYDER: Well, it reinforced it.

LEMON: I got it.

SNYDER: I mean, in terms of public health issues, it's been an absolute failure, everything from mask to PPE, to testing to the whole situation for COVID at the federal level.

LEMON: OK. So, let me ask you about this necause there's a growing list of prominent Republicans who have announced their support for the Democratic -- Democratic candidate. Excuse me. Got just some of them up on the screen now.

But I just want you to take a look at this point at this new CNN poll. It shows President Trump with commanding control over the Republican Party. Ninety-three support. When you see that, what do you think about the GOP?

SNYDER: Well, it's the party of Trump today. I still believe in the Republican Party. And a number of the principles that go back decades. And I'm not going to change from that. I'm happy to support Republican candidates, and I want to, but as a practical matter, again, America comes first, and in this case, Donald Trump is not the right person to be president of the United States for this next term. If you look at Joe Biden -- has earned that, in my view. So, I view it as a separate question. It's clear to me that I won't support Trump.

LEMON: Yes.

SNYDER: But I also came to the point of saying believe that Joe Biden can help heal the country, although I know I won't agree with him on some policy issues. I wouldn't agree with everyone. That's not the nature of government. It's about compromise, about finding answers and working together. And I believe he can bring that approach.

LEMON: But he's also -- and he's also a decent person.

SNYDER: He is.

LEMON: Yes.

SNYDER: I had the opportunity to work with him when he was vice president.

LEMON: Yes. I just had this conversation -- listen, I have to go. I'll get in trouble. I was just having this conversation with a group of people today and they said, listen, we didn't always agree -- some who feel like you, governor. We didn't always agree with the former President Barack Obama on policy, but you knew that he was a decent person underneath. And would look out for you as an American, whether you supported him or not or would not bully you. And we don't have that today.

So, listen, here's what I'm going to say to you. Not because of who you're supporting, who you're voting for, that's not, you know, that's not my bailiwick, but because you're a -- you're a smart, decent human being and you appear to -- not appear, you have a -- you have a mind and a brain and you speak with honesty and sense. So, when you come to New York, I'm going to take you out to dinner and

we're going to have a conversation and we're going to agree and disagree on policy like the old days, rather than shouting each other down and calling each other names. Will you do that for me?

SNYDER: I'm in. I'm all-in on that. That would be great.

LEMON: Thank you, governor. If I come to Michigan, I'll let you know and you have to buy me dinner. So, I'll see you soon.

SNYDER: I would that thing. If you come this way, bring it on, I'm ready to go.

LEMON: Governor Snyder, thank you. Have a good one. We'll be right back.

SNYDER: Thank you.

[22:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Joe Biden visiting Kenosha, Wisconsin, today, meeting privately with the family of Jacob Blake. Biden spoke with Blake himself on the phone. Here's what he said about the conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: He talked about how nothing was going to defeat him. How whether he walked again or not, he was not going to give up. He talked about a Psalm in my church, father based on the 23rd, Psalm, may he raise you up on eagles wings and bear you on the breath of dawn until we -- and keep you -- hold you in the palm of His hand until we meet again.

Well, I think -- what's unleashed a lot of people is they understand that fear doesn't solve problems. Only hope does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Ben Crump joins me now. He is the lead attorney for the family. Ben, thank you. I appreciate you joining us. Can you tell us about the family's conversation with Joe Biden earlier today?

[22:55:00]

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR BLAKE FAMILY: Certainly, Don. It was really the embodiment of leadership that we saw on behalf of Vice President Biden and Dr. Jill Biden. The conversation was -- in the meeting was hopeful. It was spiritual, and in many ways, it was very substantive, Don.

His mother Julia prayed for everybody. His father, Jacob Blake Sr. and his sister, Letetra, they literally wanted to ask him questions about the systematic racism that exists that led to Jacob being shot and what did he plan to do about it. And he was very substantive, Don, in his response.

He talked about Kamala Harris' congressional legislation that she's trying to put forth on the Justice and Policing Accountability Act. Also talked about having a national registry of police shootings, talked about mandatory body cameras. And then the encore of the conversation, John -- Don, I'm sorry, was when Jacob Blake Jr. himself got on the phone with Vice President Biden --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's what I want to know. What did they talk about? What did he say?

CRUMP: You know, Vice President Biden told him that, you know, he was praying for him and that he thought of him and his health often. And Jacob Blake Jr. said, well, thank you, and just know, I'm not giving up. I'm not going to give up on life, even if I never walk again, I'm going to be optimistic and I'm going to be strong, because my children need their father to believe.

And it was so inspiring. And, you know, him and Vice President Biden, they exchanged scripture, and they really talked on a deep level, Don. It really was encouraging.

LEMON: Yes. Well, Ben, thank you. Listen, we'll get you back so we can talk more about the investigation and where else is that is going. I'm at the top of the hour and I'm out of time. We were supposed to do a longer interview. We had some technical problems. But we'll get you back to talk about the investigation and everything.

Ben, thank you very much. I appreciate you joining us.

CRUMP: Yes, sir.

LEMON: Thank you. Next, the president just moments ago refuting a story that says he called Americans who died in the war losers and suckers. Stay with us for that breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)