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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Attacks His Former White House Chief Of Staff; Biden Condemns Trump For Allegedly Calling America's War Dead "Losers" & "Suckers"; U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 187,000 As Key Model Projects 410,000 U.S. Deaths By January 1. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired September 04, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: The news continues. So, I'm going to hand it over to my colleague, Don Lemon, you might know him, on "CNN TONIGHT."

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. Friday night. This is CNN TONIGHT. I am Don Lemon. It's 9:00 P.M. here on the East Coast. Do not adjust your set. I'm on a little bit early because Chris is off this evening. So, we're going to start a little bit early.

And there is a lot happening tonight.

The President of this country, of the United States, running out of buses to throw people under, after quotes attributed to him, in that devastating new "Atlantic" article, it must be as vulgar and as reprehensible to military families, to veterans and to our troops, all over the world, as any he has ever been known to make.

We first brought you this scathing reporting from "The Atlantic's" Jeffrey Goldberg. That was last night.

This reporting in which he revealed that the President -- that revealed, I should say, that the President canceled a trip to the American Cemetery in France, not because of the safety of traveling there, in bad weather, but because he was worried about his hair getting messed up in the rain, and because, as Goldberg writes, and I quote here, "Trump said, "Why should I go to that Cemetery? It is filled with losers."

In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines, who lost their lives, at Belleau Wood as "Suckers" for getting killed," and that was just a start.

Goldberg hasn't revealed the names of his four sources with firsthand knowledge of this.

But while the White House rolled out denials, from current and former staffers, two big-name alums have been silent. They haven't said anything.

The former Defense Secretary, James Mattis, is one of them, and former White House Chief of Staff, John Kelly. John Kelly's son, by the way, Robert, was killed in Afghanistan. When that silence was pointed out this evening, by a reporter, the

President didn't remind anyone of the Kelly's family sacrifice. He simply went into attack mode.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know John Kelly. He was with me, didn't do a good job, had no temperament, and ultimately, he was petered out, he got -- he was exhausted. This man was totally exhausted. He wasn't even able to function in the last number of months. He was not able to function.

He was sort of a tough guy. By the time he got eaten up in this world, it's a different world than he was used to, he was unable to function. And I told him, "John, you're going to have to go. Please give me a letter of resignation." And we did that. And now he goes out and badmouths.

Now, there are people that are jealous. There are people that are upset that they're not here anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Can you believe that?

I mean, why not just say, "The Kellys family, Gold Star family, son made the ultimate sacrifice. I have don't -- I don't want to speculate about what he may or may not have said. He served me fine," and whatever, move on.

Instead, he has to go to that? What kind of a person does that?

This President has no idea if John Kelly was even a source, and he certainly doesn't know what it is like to lose a child in a war.

Maybe he attacked him that way because the information is correct, and he thought maybe John Kelly was the person in the room, I don't know, but why would you resort to that anyway?

I should -- I should remind you that Kelly is a retired four-star Marine general, spent nearly five decades in the military, served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And while this President played the witch-hunt card tonight to suggest "The Atlantic" reporting is another so-called "Hoax," he may have missed the breaking news alert on his favorite network this afternoon.

Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I've spoken with two senior U.S. officials who were on the trip to France, who confirmed to me key details in "The Atlantic" article and the quotes attributed to the President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: "Confirmed!" Guess who that was? That was Fox's National Security Correspondent, Fox News, National Security Correspondent, the highly respected Jennifer Griffin, coming as close as anyone to matching "The Atlantic's" stunning reporting.

While the President torches those who tried to help him deliver his agenda and, again, tries to talk his way out of his hateful comments, about the late American hero, John McCain, survivor of five years of torture, as a POW, prisoner of war, in Vietnam, he is leaving families all across this country in disbelief, tearing open emotional scars for those who should never have to consider the idea of a Commander-in- Chief recklessly and falsely labeling their sons and daughters "Suckers" and "Losers" for their courage and patriotism.

[21:05:00]

Americans like Beau Biden, who spent a year deployed in Iraq, before brain cancer took his life, years later. Beau Biden's dad, the man who wants to replace President Trump, did not try to conceal his outrage today.

Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Let me be real clear. When my son was an Assistant U.S. Attorney, and he volunteered to go to Kosovo, while the war was going on, as a civilian, he wasn't a sucker.

When my son volunteered and joined the United States military, as the Attorney General, and went to Iraq for a year, won the Bronze Star and other commendations, he wasn't a sucker.

The service men and women he served with, particularly those who did not come home, were not losers.

If these statements are true, the President should humbly apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Everyone is -- he always casts everyone as a "Sucker" or a "Loser" when it is actually projection. Everything he accuses someone else of, he is it or has done it, or will do it himself. Projection!

If there is a "Sucker" or a "Loser" in all of this, maybe he should pick up a mirror.

It's doubtful this President will take his rival's advice, that of Joe Biden's, won't take his advice, but will he be listening to the families of America's Fallen in places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and Florida, as he tries to stay in office for four more years?

Because, Mr. President, I promise they are listening to you, and they make up their minds about who to vote for, they're listening as they do it. "Suckers" and "Losers," really? "Heroes," a better term.

Let's bring in now CNN White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, Miles Taylor, the former Chief of Staff at Homeland Security, during the Trump Administration, Jason Kander is here as well, as a former Army Captain and former Missouri Secretary of State.

Good to have all of you on. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

This is there -- a sickening story, that there's no other way to put it. Kaitlan, can you help with the logic of proving you support the troops by attacking a four-star general like John Kelly? What's the logic in that?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's not clear because if John Kelly is someone who could confirm the story, I'm not sure what the President said today in the briefing is really going to give him any encouragement to not do so.

And so, that was really the crux of the White House argument today, was they were saying, "Look at all these people who are denying this story."

Now, what's important, of course, when it comes to that trip to Paris is who was there. And there are several aides who used to work here and still work here that are denying that the President made these comments or holds these sentiments about the military.

But it's notable who has not said it in this situation. This is really when that's the situation about whether -- whether or not the credibility is who it is that's denying it.

And John Kelly, of course, was the Chief of Staff at the time. That was simply the question that the President was asked earlier today, when he unloaded on John Kelly. But also the Defense Secretary, at the time, has not said anything either, neither has Joe Dunford.

So, it's these figures, who are very well aware of the President's relationship with the military that could comment on this that have not so far. And it's still an open question whether or not John Kelly will come forward, given the way that the President attacked him today.

LEMON: Kaitlan, one more question for you. You followed this White House for a long time now. Do you think John Kelly might strike back now?

COLLINS: It's hard to know. John Kelly has been someone before, back during impeachment, things like that where people have asked why he hasn't come forward and spoken about the President.

The President made it increasingly personal today, by going after him, and not just attacking his style, as Chief of Staff, which a lot of people did not like. John Kelly rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and he and the President weren't even on speaking terms by the time he was leaving his job as Chief of Staff. But the way the President went after him today, basically saying he wasn't up to the job, given that John Kelly is a retired four-star Marine general, who led Southern Command, had a son who died in Afghanistan, and the President arguing the West Wing was too much pressure on him, maybe that could be something that does spur Kelly to come forward. But so far, he has said nothing on this.

LEMON: Miles, I want to bring you in. It's important -- you are such an important voice to be here because you have worked directly with both General Kelly and the President.

Does this President's claim that Kelly was exhausted and unable to function ring true to you?

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER TRUMP HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL BACKING BIDEN: I mean, Don, I'm going to say this upfront. John Kelly's got more integrity and fortitude in his pinky finger than the President has in his whole body.

[21:10:00]

And I knew neither of them, terribly well, more than the other, when I came into the Administration. Witnessed both of them in action, and I think the President's comments are reprehensible.

And I would go further. Kaitlan mentioned a number of former White House officials who have questioned "The Atlantic" article. Look, I'm one of the aides from the Administration who can confirm some of "The Atlantic" article. A good portion of it is correct.

In fact, in particular, the article talks about how the President wanted to denigrate the service of John McCain by not offering him the proper memorial, by making sure that flags weren't lowered across the country.

The President today, or last night rather, denied those allegations in the article, and said, "No, I was always very supportive of lowering the flags across the country." I can tell you firsthand that wasn't true.

LEMON: Yes.

TAYLOR: I woke up in the middle of the night, in Australia, on a trip with the Secretary of Homeland Security because the White House was calling me to say, "We need you guys to raise the flags back up. The President is angry."

And instead, we said, "No. We're not going to do that unless we get a direct order. This is in honor of the late Senator John McCain."

So, the President lied to the American people today, and I can tell you firsthand that it was a flat-out lie because I worked that in the middle of the night with his staff in response to that incident.

LEMON: What--

TAYLOR: So, look, this just goes to show you, again, his character versus that of John Kelly.

LEMON: He also denied that he called his -- that he said, "I never tweeted, never -- I didn't call John McCain a loser," whatever. We have him on tape and tweeting that he calling John McCain a "Loser," so it's a flat-out lie.

One more before I get to Jason, Miles, have you heard from any of your former colleagues inside and outside the White House? What are they saying about this, if anything?

TAYLOR: Yes, look, I think this is -- we are almost at the moment of the dam breaking.

And, Don, we've talked about this before. There's a lot of folks that are really scared to speak out against this President. He has created a culture of fear to make it difficult for people to come out and tell the truth, the truth that we all knew.

And again, this isn't me trying to be hyperbolic. I'm not a Dem operative. I'm a lifelong Republican that served this President. But what we saw is what we all believed to be true, which is that this President was unstable behind the scenes.

I am talking to these people that were cabinet secretaries in this Administration, I'm talking to my former colleagues, I'm talking to people who are still in this Administration, the same people Kaitlan talks to, on a daily basis, who feel this same way. They're getting closer and closer to speaking out.

I really hope this is a tipping point, and the American people need this to be a tipping point because they need to hear these voices speak more publicly about the truth, and what we all saw and knew to be the reality of the Trump Administration.

LEMON: Do you think they should say who they are, and you think they will?

TAYLOR: I really sincerely hope that the people in Jeffrey Goldberg's article in "The Atlantic"--

LEMON: OK.

TAYLOR: --will attach their names to those quotes. I think some of them may, in the very near term. And I think it's really important to this election that those people discuss, on the record, what they saw and know to be true.

And look, and if they don't, it's important for people to protect their sources. Again, there are safety concerns here, for some of these folks, because the President has created this culture of intimidation.

But there's a higher purpose here and a higher cause. And I hope folks will step forward.

LEMON: Jason, listen, thank you for your service. I know that you've served.

JASON KANDER, BIDEN CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: Thank you.

LEMON: What did you think when you first heard this story because it's not an outlier.

We've heard the President talk about people in these terms, what he said about troops suffering from PTSD. There's been reporting of him disparaging people who served in Vietnam, still not seen him hold Russia accountable for possibly putting bounties on U.S. solders.

I want to know what you thought about this because it's not like he can say, "This doesn't sound like me. I would never say anything like that, because he has said a lot of things like that."

Go on, Jason. You have the floor.

KANDER: I was sad because of how unsurprised I was, and yet surprised at how angry I have been, in the last 24 hours, since reading this article.

Here is the thing, Don. Folks who have served, like myself, folks who are in the service right now, we didn't need this article. The troops already know.

That's why, before this article came out, a few days ago, there was a Military Times poll that said that the active duty force is now voting more for Biden than for Trump, and here is how they got there.

They heard him come into office, and say that the military was in terrible shape until he got there. They've heard him say that they don't fight to win anymore. They've heard what he said about John McCain.

They remember the Yemen raid, where he went into Yemen, in a dangerous raid, one he ordered over dinner, for the reason of Obama said "No" to the raid. And when Navy SEAL Ryan Owens was killed in that raid, what did President Trump say? He said "The generals lost him."

[21:15:00]

They remember when he told a widow that her husband knew what he was getting into.

The day, he took us to war with Iran for a full day, and to the brink of full war, solely so he could appear tough. The traumatic brain injuries that occurred as a result of rocket attacks during that one day of a war that he called headaches.

The fact that Vladimir Putin currently has a price on the head of our soldiers, and he doesn't stand up to him; the fact that he uses soldiers, and marines, and sailors, and airmen and coasties as props, in parades, and his captive audiences, for overtly political speeches.

And, as you just mentioned, one that's deeply personal to me, he has said that combat veterans who are not stricken with post-traumatic stress are strong and that those, like myself, who are stricken with post-traumatic stress, they simply can't handle it.

And I'll tell you, the difference between these two people.

And that is that when I made my announcement that I was taking a step off the stage, for a while, to deal with post-traumatic stress, Vice President Biden didn't just make a public statement, calling that "Brave." He called me that day, he texted me that day. He checked up on me.

This isn't about any of the things I just mentioned, this indictment on President Trump. At the end of the day, the reason that he will lose the vote of military families and current military members is because we know a leader when we see one, and he is not it.

LEMON: Can you go deeper for us, Jason?

Because I'm wondering how the President's -- the President's alleged words, and the ones that he's made public, quite frankly, how they make our military families feel, especially those who have people serving, who are in harm's way right now?

KANDER: One of the hardest things, and it's something I've never had to do, is to get that last long hug before your child deploys. And I can get emotional thinking about it because my family has been through it.

Imagine doing that, and thinking that the President thinks that you and your family are "Suckers," and that if -- and then if he or she doesn't come home, then he is a "Loser" or she is a "Loser."

And I'll tell you the difference here is that you know how long it's been since we've had a President of the United States who has actually given a child that last final hug before they've gone off to war? It has been since Eisenhower.

And if we replace this person, this sorry excuse for a Commander-in- Chief with Vice President Biden, then that will be the first time since Eisenhower that we will have had a President of the United States, who has given their child one last, final hug, before they get on a plane to go to war, not knowing if they will ever see them again.

LEMON: This is very personal for you.

KANDER: Yes. I told my wife, before I came up here that I was going to try really hard not to get mad, and I'm not crushing at that but -- but yes--

LEMON: I think you should say whatever you want to say, at this moment, because if you don't speak now, who will?

And if you don't speak up for the people, who are dealing with situations, like you, which I think you are very strong and powerful voice, who needs to be heard. So, with all respect to your wife, get angry if you want, or whatever it is you want to say.

What do you want to say to the people of America right now, Jason? KANDER: I've had a lot of conversations with fellow combat veterans, over the last day that I can't repeat here, that are just painful.

I think about -- look, every veteran has met this person who Trump is, and it's the person who you can just tell when you talk to him that they figure the reason you were in the military is because you couldn't do something that made more money.

They're usually pretty nice about it. They usually find a way to not say that directly, but it's usually, you can hear it. I mean, any veteran listening to me saying this, right now, any active duty soldier, or marine or whatever, knows what I'm talking about.

The person who is like just asking these probing questions like, "So did you go to school? Did you?" you know, so the idea that one of those people is the President of the United States, because the other type you run into is the other type that he is.

And that's the person who has such a tremendous sense of insecurity that they tell you two things. One, "I would have served, other than this thing," or sometimes it's "My neighbor down the street did this really cooler (ph) thing."

And then you know what they usually do is they pull out pictures on their phone of their guns, and they show them to you, because they think that you're going to like relate to them as a result.

The idea that a person who is the mix of those two ridiculous people is the Commander-in-Chief, I can't wait to vote. I just can't wait to vote, Don. That's how I feel. Thanks for giving me the chance to--

LEMON: No, no, no.

KANDER: --talk about it.

LEMON: Not at all. Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to stick with you for a little bit because you have spoken openly.

And this is something I talk about a lot on this program, Chris talks about it a lot on his program when we talk about issues for people who are dealing with mental health issues. And, quite frankly, you spoke openly about your PTSD, from your time in service.

[21:20:00]

We hear a lot about Joe Biden's empathy. You said that he called you.

And you know Joe Biden has empathy from what happened with his family members, who've lost family members, and also because he is a stutter. People make fun of him. Even the current President makes fun of him now, because of his stutter, and he says that he's -- he has some mental issues. It's because of a stutter.

But this story shows the complete opposite of how this President feels as to how Joe Biden deals with these situations, and how Trump deals with these situations. And I related to you in that when you said that you were bowing out

for PTSD, that he called you. I've told the story on the air before.

When my sister died, I get a phone call saying, "Oh, we have the Vice President -- former Vice President of the United States on the phone for you." And I'm like, "Yes, yes, right," you know, I didn't believe it.

And then he says, "Hey, it's Joe." And then you realize, oh, it really is him.

And quite frankly, again, as I have told the story before, I had to get him off the phone because he kept trying to give me advice and talk to me to make sure that I was OK. Can you imagine Donald Trump ever doing anything like that?

And then gave me his personal phone number. Can you imagine Donald Trump ever doing anything like that, having that kind of empathy for someone who is suffering a loss?

KANDER: Not only can I not imagine it. I assume he is watching this, right now, and he is thinking, "I can't imagine doing that," because he can't, because he doesn't understand doing anything for anyone other than yourself.

Vice President Biden, I've spent a fair amount of time with him, campaigning and that sort of thing, he -- I mean here is the difference, right?

President Trump doesn't understand why people would risk their life for their country.

Vice President Biden keeps a card in his pocket, I have seen it, that he makes sure is updated every single day with the most recent numbers about casualties and about killed-in-action, about people who we've lost, soldiers and service members who we've lost.

And he does that because he doesn't ever want the numbers to become just numbers. He wants to have to see them change each time they change. He wants to feel it. That's who I want in charge of deciding what happens in terms of deployments and who gets sent into harm's way.

The President, he just thinks we're all just representations of just the flag. And I don't mean in a symbolic, good way. I mean he thinks we're pieces of cloth, right? He literally hugs the flag. He makes a great show of it.

But he's had opportunity after opportunity to demonstrate that he understands anything about leadership, and that's the thing. Leadership is not a buzz word in the military. It's something we are extremely serious about.

And that's why -- that's why the military is saying, you know, the active duty troops overwhelmingly in a Military Times poll are saying they're going to choose Vice President Biden. LEMON: Well, Jason, I appreciate you being so candid about this. I really do. I have spent more time with you, and I apologize to Miles and to Kaitlan, but I really thought what you were saying is important--

KANDER: Right.

LEMON: --and that people needed to hear it.

Also, there is something else I wanted to get in. I just wanted to look at my notes. Let's put up the -- the first lady is weighing in on this. I just want to get this up real quick. Can you put that up?

She's saying "The Atlantic" story is not true," she's saying. "It's becoming a very dangerous time when anonymous sources are believed above all else. No one knows their motivation. This is not journalism. It is activism. And it is a disservice to the people of our great nation."

OK, "Be Best" with all of that!

Kaitlan, a quick response, from you, with that if you can?

COLLINS: I just want to note this is something we keep hearing from the White House today, about anonymous sources. And I hope that viewers know that when we're reporting, anonymous sources are not anonymous to the reporters who are doing the reporting.

We know who they are. We don't reveal their identity for certain reasons. Sometimes they won't say the things they say for information to be used, if you are going to use their name. And so, that's very important for people to keep in mind.

LEMON: Right.

COLLINS: Of course, this is a White House who often goes on background or they do not use their names sometimes in giving statements. So, it's important to keep that in mind, as we're going back and forth with the White House debating that these sources of this article are unnamed.

And, of course, the broader context, is this just an isolated incident these comments that the President has made, or that he is reported to have made about the military, or can you look at it with things he's said and done publicly, and I think people can make a judgment for themselves on that.

LEMON: Well as I've said, he cannot say, "Does this sound like something I would say?" because it sounds exactly like something he would say.

Miles, I will give you the last word here in the time that we have left. Listening to Jason, and having worked in the Administration, give me your thoughts?

TAYLOR: Well, look, I would say, Jason, your words completely ring true.

[21:25:00]

I've been there in the room with the President, in the White House Situation Room, when he is making important decisions, and I did not see the man who displayed the same kind of character that you described when it comes to Joe Biden.

And I want to echo Kaitlan's point that anonymous sources get protected. But also there are people who are willing, right now, to go on the record.

I'm telling you, on the record, as someone who has served in this Administration, these comments seem completely consistent with the President's character, the type of comments that I've heard expressed in the Oval Office, the Situation Room, and other events with the President of the United States.

And also a piece of that story, I can confirm directly. I was -- I bore witness to it firsthand. So, this is a false argument. The President is desperately casting about to find people who will support his false claim, and a lot of these people are people who didn't bear witness to the direct incidents themselves.

KANDER: Yes.

TAYLOR: So, look, I think it's disappointing, and I'd echo Jason's earlier points that we need a Commander-in-Chief who is focused on the safety of our troops and the security of our country, and Donald Trump directly has not demonstrated that as President of the United States. And that's what I saw, in this Administration, and it has been a big disappointment.

LEMON: Miles, thank you. Kaitlan, thank you as always. Jason, special thank you to you, I really appreciate it.

KANDER: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Be strong, and be in touch, OK? You and your family be well. I appreciate it.

KANDER: Same to you, man.

LEMON: So, coming up, we are going to -- those -- one of those Gold Star members, Gold Star father, Khizr Khan, whose son, an Army Captain, was killed in 2004, in Iraq, there he is right there. He is going to react to what the President is saying. That's next.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump tonight denying reporting from "The Atlantic" that he allegedly called members of the military, who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country, "Losers" and "Suckers." But my next guest knows the true meaning of sacrifice. He lost his son, a U.S. Army Captain in Iraq, in 2004. Let's discuss now. Let's talk to Khizr Khan. He is a Gold Star father, and surrogate for the Biden campaign.

Mr. Khan, it's an honor. Thank you for joining. I appreciate it.

KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR FATHER: Likewise. I am honored, Don, to be with you.

LEMON: You said that the President's alleged comments calling Fallen Soldiers "Losers" help us understand his soul. What do you mean by that, Mr. Khan?

KHAN: Well, the words we say are a window into our souls. How we see the world and our place in it.

So, when Donald Trump calls anyone, who places their life, in service of others, life of service to the country, a "Loser," we understand Trump's soul. By his accounting, self-sacrifice doesn't make sense. Love doesn't make sense. Love of country, love of nation, love of those with whom you serve doesn't make sense.

According to Trump, the winners in life are those that put themselves before all, and the losers are those that don't.

His life is a testament to selfishness. We know enough about his background, about his life, how he has lived, needless to waste our time on that. He calls our war dead "Losers" and celebrates autocrats and dictators. I mean North Korean Dictator and Russian Autocrat, his benefactor in his real estate business.

Words count because they tell us who we are. We have heard his words. His words are on record, calling our heroes "Losers," "Suckers."

Donald Trump told us who he is by his own words. He is incapable of understanding service, valor and courage. His soul cannot conceive of integrity and honor. He has lived a dishonorable life. We know enough about that now. His soul is that of a coward, if I may.

He has proven time after time unworthy of leading our brave men and women, as your guests mentioned in the previous block.

Russians, his benefactor, Putin, has placed bounty on the heads of our men and women serving in harm's way. Just imagine the anguish their families are going through, at this very moment, and this Commander- in-Chief has uttered nothing in support of the troops, rejecting placing of the bounty on the -- to harm our soldiers.

LEMON: Well that's what I want to ask you, Mr. Khan.

KHAN: He is--

LEMON: Because -- let me ask you this.

Because, and I also want to mention, we want to honor your son, Humayun, right? He gave his life while serving in Iraq to protect people serving under him. And as we -- there he is, up on the screen.

[21:35:00]

You're a Gold Star Parent. What do you say to other people, right now, who are listening to this, who have heard about what the President allegedly said with their children now or their loved ones in harm's way?

KHAN: I can fully empathize with the anguish that they feel.

This is what I say to them, that regardless of this Commander-in-Chief and his undeserving position as Commander-in-Chief, as President, they are in very good hands. They are in excellent leaders, they are in good hands with their fellow soldiers.

American Army, Armed Forces prepares their soldiers, their men and women to make sure that each and every one of them is looked after, is safe and is protected, and they never leave anyone dead, alive, injured, behind. So, they are in good company regardless of the Commander-in-Chief--

LEMON: Well--

KHAN: --and his cowardice.

LEMON: Well I--

KHAN: So, their anguish is understandable, and we wish we had a Commander-in-Chief, like Joe Biden, who knows what it takes to send a family member in harm's way, what anguish families go through, when their member of the family is deployed, is serving this nation in harm's way. That anguish, he understands.

LEMON: Well Mr. Khan?

KHAN: And we--

LEMON: Go ahead. Finish your thought, but I have to run. I apologize, but you know how this works.

KHAN: Yes, not at all, not at all. I just -- as I mention that, we have a better Commander-in-Chief, a better President.

We just need to make sure that we all come together on the day of election and vote this undeserving President out, and bring a new President who is most empathetic, and who is most compassionate, who understands the difficulty of the military families, men and women, and our veterans.

LEMON: That's right..

KHAN: And soon America will be in good hands.

LEMON: Well Mr. Khan, thank you so much. I appreciate the sacrifice you and your family has made, and our regards to your entire family. We appreciate you coming on this evening. Thank you. KHAN: Thank you, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: So, you've watched me. I am not usually at this time. I'm usually a little bit later on, after Chris, in case you haven't watched. Usually I -- there's a more jocular experience, where I interact with the guests more.

But, in this particular situation, I let them talk. I respect them enough to let them talk. I don't have to ask questions, and let them get it out.

Because you understand how painful this is to people around the country and around the world, quite frankly, who have members of the military in their family, or who are serving, members who have made, people who've made the ultimate sacrifice, their family members have died, and to hear a president calling them "Losers" and "Suckers," that is very painful.

They want to get their anger and their pain out, and they want to voice how they feel, and I'm going to let them.

We will be right back.

[21:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, here is the latest on the Coronavirus. As of tonight, more than 187,000 Americans had died -- have died from it.

But a key forecast model from the University of Washington now projects that 410,000 Americans could die from the virus by January 1. Think about that, our death toll could more than double in less than four months.

Let's bring in now CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Larry Brilliant, who is an Epidemiologist.

Doctor, thank you so much for joining.

DR. LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Don, thank you for having me. I just have to say that your previous guest tore my heart out. It's just very difficult to think of anything other than losing someone in the battlefield and having that sacrifice be disrespected.

LEMON: Thank you. And I'm sure he and other Gold Star families appreciate what you are saying. Thank you, Doctor.

More than 410,000 Coronavirus deaths by January 1, that's another 224,000 Americans lost just in the next four months.

To put that into perspective, Dodger Stadium holds 56,000 people. So, this is four Dodger Stadiums. It did not have to be this way.

BRILLIANT: No. And the President says that we've turned a corner. He just isn't listening to the people who can see around the corner. Let me tell you what is around the corner.

Labor Day, and four-day weekend, people going out, being exposed to the disease, schools opening and closing, the flu season, the winter coming, when it's colder and we're indoors and more exposed. You're talking about Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's Eve.

All of those will happen before this estimate comes to pass. And 400,000 American deaths, no, it didn't have to be like this. We have lost precious months. We've done very little. Our institutions have been hollowed out. This is a tragedy, catastrophe.

[21:45:00]

LEMON: Doctor, the model shows, if everyone wore a mask, 122,000 of those lives could be saved. But we are learning that mask-wearing is actually down in some reason -- in some regions, I should say. That is troubling. Why is this happening?

BRILLIANT: Well, our leaders have got to model the best behavior and not ridicule someone who wears a mask the way I just saw President Trump ridicule Vice President Biden. We should be wearing masks.

Look, the virus spreads when there is a high density of susceptibles. If the virus is there, and someone is sick, and there's no one around that person, who is susceptible, the virus is going to die out.

There's one way to protect the virus from being able to spread, and that's vaccinating them. But if everybody has a mask on, and they can't catch the disease, then the virus stops spreading.

So naturally, if everybody wore a mask, the virus would not be able to spread, people would not get sick, they would not go into the hospitals and they would not die. This is pretty straightforward. Wear a mask, wear it all the time, and wear a good mask, and stay your distance from other people.

LEMON: Dr. Brilliant, thank you.

BRILLIANT: Thank you for having me, Don.

LEMON: Health experts are warning that there's -- there's going to be another Coronavirus surge coming. What you need to know, next.

[21:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, here we are, on a Friday night, at the start of a long Labor Day weekend, amid the Coronavirus pandemic, and the advice, from experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci is get outdoors and have fun, but avoid large crowds, wear a mask and make sure to socially distance.

More tonight on what you should and shouldn't do this holiday weekend from CNN's Tom Foreman. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Brace yourself for more super-spreader events."

That's the warning from health officials, who fear with millions traveling over the Labor Day holiday, the pandemic could spike, just as we enter fall when the flu and other illnesses may come into play.

JENNIFER NUZZO, JOHNS HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: We use Labor Day as a way to take the day off. But unfortunately, the virus doesn't.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We don't want to go into that with another surge that we have to turn around again. So, it really is an important weekend.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Infections shot up in some places, after Memorial Day and the Fourth of July too, despite warnings against big social gatherings, like that motorcycle rally in South Dakota, which produced dozens of cases, private parties in many places, and numerous family events, like the wedding reception, earlier this year, that left a New Jersey woman and three of her children dead.

For all that, President Trump keeps mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask.

TRUMP: Did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him?

FOREMAN (voice-over): Still health experts say imagine an outdoor barbecue. The medical journal, BMJ, created this chart showing if you attend an event like that, for a short time, with a mask, your risk could be relatively low, depending on whether people are silent, talking or shouting and singing.

Stay longer, it gets worse. Take off your mask a while, worse still. And without a mask, for a long time, the risk explodes, especially if the party moves indoors.

(VIDEO - CROWDS OF HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS AT IOWA STATE SEEMINGLY IGNORING COVID-19 SAFETY PRECAUTIONS)

FOREMAN (voice-over): So, images like these are raising alarm bells, hundreds of students at Iowa State seemingly ignoring safety precautions.

FOREMAN: Are you guys concerned about Coronavirus at all or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not really, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not really.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I personally think it's a hoax.

FOREMAN: Really? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's a hoax.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I think that -- I think that--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --if I were to get it, I'd survive.

FOREMAN (voice-over): That is the attitude driving yet another warning this holiday from health experts, watching college students on campuses everywhere.

DR. DAVID RUBIN, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Putting them on airplanes infect -- and sending them home to their parents doesn't make sense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: If people listen, the results could be huge.

A new projection out of the University of Washington says with universal masking, the U.S. could see 300,000 deaths by the end of the year. But if restrictions are eased too soon, it says that number could double by the New Year's holiday.

Don?

LEMON: Tom Foreman, thank you.

Youth! Wasted on the young!

More expert advice for how you can keep yourself and your family safe this Labor Day weekend. Erin Bromage tells us next.

[21:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Health officials are warning Americans will see a spike in COVID-19 cases over the next few weeks, if guidelines to combat the virus are ignored this Labor Day weekend.

So, joining me now is Erin Bromage, Associate Professor of Biology, at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth.

Erin, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. People are asking me, "Why are you saying this? You don't know." Well, because science, right?

ERIN BROMAGE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.

I mean we've seen it that after eventually every holiday weekend, where people ignore the guidelines, they go indoors, they make the parties bigger than they need to be. They ignore the masks and the distance. And we see a pop after the holiday.

And we really can't afford to do that this time around, when all our effort needs to be on reopening schools and getting our kids back into education. And if we mess this up, we're putting that in jeopardy.

LEMON: So, you think, in two weeks, we're going to see a spike in cases?

BROMAGE: I mean I really hope not. I know we're going to see it in some parts of the country.

But it looks, locally, even this past weekend, and we saw lots of gatherings at households, where there was 10 cars, 15 cars there. And my community had been down in really the -- what single digits per 100,000, and we had 11, 12, new cases this past week that popped up because of summer gatherings.

LEMON: Well listen, I mean the facts or the science tells you if you have mask-wearing down, in some places, if you have people, as you said, with 15 cars, in front of their houses, and who are not practicing social distancing, then it is what it is. Correct?

BROMAGE: Right.

LEMON: Yes.

BROMAGE: I mean the great example that just came out recently was the wedding that happened in Maine, earlier in August. But--

LEMON: And Maine was not -- had no issues. And then, all of a sudden, this wedding became a super-spreader event. And then, from the church--

BROMAGE: Right.

LEMON: --and then on and on, and then, now it's an issue. But go on, yes.

BROMAGE: Yes, a 150 people, but they weren't the 150 people that were at the wedding. It was a group of 70 people at the wedding that those guests left, and went out to work, and infected workmates, went to an aged rehab facility, and infected eight staff and seven residents there.

Three people died out of it, all from a State that has really low infection numbers. But it was just that one gathering that messed everything up.

LEMON: Hey, before we run out of time, it's closing in, give us some tips, if you can. What are your plans to stay safe this weekend?

BROMAGE: Just keep it outdoors, keep a distance, and keep it as small as you can.

LEMON: Yes. You're right. Outdoors is always better, at a distance, and wear a mask. I'm sure that's part of your advice as well.

BROMAGE: It is.

LEMON: Yes.

Thank you, Erin Bromage. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN.

BROMAGE: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

So everyone, top of the hour here, this is CNN TONIGHT. I am Don Lemon. 10:00 P.M. is when I usually join you, so I am glad that you are here with us on this Friday.