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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump Booed at the Supreme Court; White House Assures Sportsmanship; GOP is OK to SCOTUS Nominee; Mail-in Ballots Are Safe and Secured; Cohen Calls Trump Master Deflector; Louisville Seeing Day Two of Unrest; IHME is Out with New Projections. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 24, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you for watching. CNN Tonight with D. Lemon, major star right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I was listening to your conversation with the doctor and I had Andy Slavitt on two nights ago and he told me, he said the president can override the FDA if he wants to. That's the consequences of an election. He can do it.
CUOMO: Yes. Executive branch. It's his agency.
LEMON: Yes, but the trust. Where would the trust factor be?
CUOMO: Especially in the black and brown communities. They're four times more likely to get sick. Twice as likely to get hospitalized or die. And you need them to have faith in the vaccine. And why wouldn't they feel like a bunch of guinea pigs if it's all being raced through and all of a sudden, they're being asked to take it? It's not good. We have to have trust of our leaders in this society, and he makes it hard to trust him.
LEMON: Why wouldn't anyone? I came to your office -- you were talking to your producer today but I wanted to tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Yes. Very invasive.
LEMON: I'm sorry. Like, I walked away because you guys were talking.
CUOMO: You got your team. I got my team. Just, you know. Go ahead. What? Why you stop. What did you want to tell me?
LEMON: OK. So, we have an election. We've got protests. We've got a pandemic.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: We've got a president who lies all the time and who says that, you know, the peaceful transition of power, trying to change the subject because he's not -- that's what that's all about, by the way.
CUOMO: Eleven more -- 11 million more people unemployed.
LEMON: Right. But he would rather us talk about the possibility of a contested election than actually talk about the 202,000 people who are dead from the coronavirus.
So, one should be careful that we don't give him what he wants. Yes, it's important, but he's going to contest the election anyway. It doesn't matter what we say. And I think it's important for us to keep the eye on the prize, which is there's a pandemic, 202,000 Americans have died.
They need -- there needs to be some accountability there. And they want answers. And they want to know why this president and this administration did not take it seriously and continues to lie about nothing could have been done. I think that's the most important story right now.
CUOMO: Not even a moment of silence.
LEMON: Not even.
CUOMO: To mark the passing. Although, I must say, he is constantly silent about the death toll, so maybe he's having a moment of silence, you know, in perpetuity about it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I think the light has to be on the Republicans in power. I know they did the resolution today. Even Harry Reid, I had him on the show tonight, and he said that was good what they did. I don't think it's even near enough.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I don't think it's enough to say you believe in the orderly transfer of power. You have to say what he's saying is wrong.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And if they don't, then they're complicit.
LEMON: Yes. Well, you know, this president is never going to say of course I'm going to -- he can't.
CUOMO: They have to.
LEMON: In his mind, there's no way he can lose. Well --
CUOMO: You're full of grumpy faces tonight.
LEMON: Because they never do it.
CUOMO: But they should.
LEMON: They never, ever do it.
CUOMO: Doesn't mean you should stop asking them to do it.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I was -- yes, I was watching Tom -- Thomas Friedman who was on earlier I think --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: With Anderson.
LEMON: With Anderson. And he talked about just how Republicans are prostrating themselves in front of Trump and they're just rolling over. And whatever he says --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: What they ignore --
LEMON: What they ignore.
CUOMO: -- they empower and they will own it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It will not be forgotten.
LEMON: It will not be forgotten. And you will not -- your fabulous show will not be forgotten either.
CUOMO: You don't watch.
LEMON: But I got to go.
CUOMO: But you have to stay on things and then you can get change. I've been banging on you to pay for, what, years.
LEMON: yes.
CUOMO: And then finally it happened the other day. You got to stay at it.
LEMON: Well I told you the boss paid for it. I'm so glad we had this time together. That means bye-bye.
CUOMO: Bye.
LEMON: I'll talk to you soon.
CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: This is -- thank you so much.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. I want to get you up to speed on the breaking news tonight as we watch protests -- protesters demanding justice for Breonna Taylor in Louisville for a second night. There you go. Live pictures there, 10:03 p.m. Eastern Time, Louisville, Kentucky. We're going to be checking on that, keeping an eye on the situation there with our reporters on the ground.
But I want to talk more about what Chris and I were talking about a little bit more and just go deeper. As the reverend says on Sunday, every Sunday, can I go deeper. I want you to listen to me carefully. Just stay with me. I know it's late, but I just want you to stay with me because I have a lot to say here. This is really, really important.
Everything this president is doing right now is about trying to shake your faith in our election, in our democracy. This is our democracy. He and his administration again and again are trying to lay the foundation for an election that can only be resolved by the Supreme Court.
Listen to me. A court that he intends to add his own justice to before the election come hell or high water. He's trying to scare you. Maybe it's working. Maybe it's working. He's trying to make you see chaos everywhere.
It is hard not to look at it that way right now. He wants you to think that mail-in ballots are a scam. They are not.
[22:05:03]
You heard Harry Reid on Chris' show that mail-in has been around since the Revolution. So, let's take a look at Florida. Florida is a state the president thinks that he might win and where he, himself, votes by mail. So, he tweeted this yesterday. He said, vote by mail. Vote by mail ballots in my home state of Florida begin going out today. Make sure to request yours. Fill it out and send it in.
All right. Now all right So, good for him, but he wants you to doubt mail-in ballots in states that he might lose, but not in states that he must win.
We absolutely need to sound the warning about what the president is doing and how wrong it is, how damaging, how dangerous it is. And point out while the president is working overtime to make you question the results in our election. His own hand-picked FBI director, who ought to know, says there's no evidence of national voter fraud by mail or otherwise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: We have not seen historically any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was the FBI director. So, the postmaster general says the president is wrong when he claims they can't handle mail-in ballots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOUIS DEJOY, POSTMASTER GENERAL, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: The Postal Service will do its job to deliver its -- to deliver the ballots, OK? And when we -- when the president goes into that the Postal Service doesn't -- is not equipped to do it, which he's incorrect with that one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. He's incorrect with that. Why is he lying to you? He wants you to believe his big lie, his big lie that mail-in ballots will cause chaos and only the Supreme Court can decide the election. And why? It's simple.
I want you to take a look at these new -- these new polls. It's from Fox News, OK? Here's your answer, your answers in these polls. It's not a clue. It's up on the screen right there. That's the answer.
In Nevada, Biden leading Trump 52 percent to 41 percent. Battleground states. Pennsylvania, Biden leads 51 to 44 percent. Ohio, Biden, 50, Trump, 45. The latest CNN polls, Biden, 51, Trump, 44.
Do you know why he's doing this? Because he is losing. He's losing and he wants to lay the groundwork for a contested election. That's what he's trying to do because he can't fathom in his mind losing. How can -- I can't -- if he loses, my gosh.
That is why he is so determined to force through his pick to fill the seat of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg before election day. If he loses, an ego like that, it's just going to distort his whole fake reality that he has built up for himself.
He wants to do this, replace the Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, against the will of nearly 60 percent of Americans who say the president elected in November should choose the next justice, should choose the next justice. That's what Republicans said last time in 2016, but now it's a horse of another color, as my grandma used to say.
Just listen to what happened when this president and the first lady paid their respects to Justice Ginsburg at the Supreme Court today. The president standing there silently, wearing a mask for once, while crowds booed and chanted vote him out.
(CROWD BOOING)
(CROWD CHANTING)
LEMON: Vote him out. Vote him out. Vote him out. Up close, he heard it. He heard it. He heard it. This president always tries to surround himself with cheering crowds, like the one at his rally tonight at Jacksonville. So, he has a hard time handling boos. He told reporters he could hardly hear them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think that was just a political chant. I could -- we could hardly hear it from where we were.
[22:10:01] Somebody said there was some chanting, but they were right next to the media. But we really could hardly hear too much. We heard a sound, but it wasn't very strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And that big echoing overhang Porte-cochere, however that, I'm not sure the exact name you want to call it. He heard it. Trust. He didn't hear it. Right. OK. The president says it right out loud he wants his justice on the Supreme Court because he thinks the court will decide the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think this will end up in the Supreme Court, and I think it's very important that we have nine justices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He's not the only one. The president's party cynically getting right in line with him, as they do always, no checks and balances. What do you want? Point right here. Case in point. Judiciary chairman Lindsey Graham parroting the president's line about needing a ninth justice on the court before election day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We need a nine-person Supreme Court, and people wonder about the peaceful transfer of power. I can assure you it will be peaceful. Now, we may have litigation about who won the election, but the court will decide, and if the Republicans lose, we'll accept that result, but we need a full court and I think that's possible before the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There you go. Saying exactly what the president wants to hear. We may have litigation about who won the election, but the court would decide. There it is, said the quiet part out loud. The president can't bring himself to say that heal accept the election status. He leaves that to his press secretary; except she leaves the door wide open for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to understand this clearly. Are the results legitimate only if the president wins?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president will accept the results of a free and fair election. He will accept the will of the American people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, for clarity, if he loses and it's free and fair, he will accept.
MCENANY: I've answered your question. He will accept the results of a free and fair election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Every day. Can they get, like -- well, no, they can't. I was going to say get, like, someone up there who is going to level with the American people, but they can't because the truth is not on their side, so they need a spin doctor, someone who is going to spin it like plates in the air every day. That's what they're doing, twirling plates. Spinning you know what to you, the people who pay their salary.
So, what is the definition of free and fair, anyway? What's their definition, I should say? We know what that is. She does not want to say, but I know. It will be whatever Donald Trump tells her and his enablers in Congress. And all his cronies like the Attorney General Barr and all his supporters. When push comes to shove, the definition of free and fair, if we leave it to them, will be whatever Trump says it is. Just like always.
Listen to the people who know him best. Remember what Donald Trump's former fixer and keeper of secrets Michael Cohen told Congress about this. This was way back in February.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER: I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: February of last year, by the way. Michael Cohen is going to be here in just a few minutes, so you want to stay tuned to that, but I want you to remember this. What the president is saying, trying to call the election into question, refusing to commit to the peaceful transfer of power, trying to make you believe this election can only be decided by the court, it's dangerous, everyone.
But you do not have to give into it. The Supreme Court does not decide an election. Decide elections. It considers cases. I'm not ignoring what happened in 2000. While the decision will always, always be hugely controversial, the court ruled Florida had to stop the statewide hand count -- hand recounts.
Studies found that Bush would have most likely won the statewide hand recount of all undervotes. Like I said, the court doesn't decide elections. It hasn't so far. The president just wants you to think that, possibly because he -- because he believes the place that he is likely to have the most votes is on the Supreme Court and not at the ballot box.
So, we must recognize what the president is doing. We must call it out. We must be vigilant about it. We must tell the truth about it. You can even be scared or worried about it. You probably should be. Honestly.
[22:14:56]
But at the same time, never give up on this. In America the voters decide. You get to decide. If we give up on that, every single one of us will have lost.
Our White House correspondent is Ms. Kaitlan Collins and she joins us now from Washington. Kaitlan, good evening to you. There is no widespread voter fraud. You heard the head of the FBI say it. Mail-in ballots are safe, and yet this president refuses to commit to a peaceful transfer of power by lying about all that. Why is he doing it?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And not only did he do that once, Don, he repeated it today when they were asked, you know, if it's a legitimate action, will you then accept the results of it? And the president didn't even say what his press secretary said today, giving him so much room there. Instead, he said he doesn't think this can be an honest election.
And, of course, we know that all comes down to what he has said on mail-in ballots. You heard what the FBI director who is tasked with dealing with this today said there is no effort coordinated effort to commit fraud.
But I think the reason that we are seeing this, is that, yes, these are the most provocative comments the president has made about not committing to a peaceful transition of power, but, Don, it's been a slow build-up of what we've seen for the last several months where he has repeatedly tried to cast doubt on an election that right now polls do not have him winning.
And so, of course, he's concerned about that. He's concerned about the way people are voting and one reason why is, you know, he's been in North Carolina today. And as you saw, over 1 million people in North Carolina have requested an absentee ballot. A ballot they are going to mail back to their election office. And that is incredibly more than it was in 2016 at this point. I think then it was fewer than 90,000 people.
And what those numbers show, Don, is that Democrats are requesting them two to one compared to Republicans. And so that is something the president is worried about. He is worried that he will lose because more Democrats are going to vote by mail than Republicans. And so that is why you're seeing this all-out assault by the president on the way that we believe a lot of people are going to be voting over the next few weeks before November the 3rd.
LEMON: Kaitlan, no, we -- no, this isn't shocking, but there's another rally with -- tonight crowded. No social distancing. Yet, President Trump wants to appear that he cares about healthcare, even though they are fighting in court during a pandemic, trying to invalidate the Affordable Care Act. He's promised a plan. But this is not what we got today.
COLLINS: it's certainly not what he's promised. He has promised a comprehensive healthcare plan and that is not what the president unveiled in North Carolina today. But the reason you saw the president unveiling these executive orders that he's going to sign, Don, is because they've realized it's not just an empty promise about healthcare anymore.
Push is about to come to shove if the president does get another justice on the Supreme Court and the Affordable Care Act is one of the first cases they're going to be dealing with right after the election, and they very well could overturn it if the president's nominee does get confirmed.
And the problem they're going to have with that is that they do not have a replacement plan. So, the president unveiled these executive orders today. One of them is about pre-existing conditions, which is already covered under the law by the Affordable Care Act, which, of course, the president is trying to dismantle in court right now.
So, today, he signed this executive order and we -- reporters asked the HHS Secretary Alex Azar how is an executive order going to carry more legal authority than the actual law does protecting these pre- existing conditions among, of course, many other things that the ACA does?
And he said basically by signing the executive order, the president is underlying that protecting pre-existing conditions is important to him and important to his administration.
But, Don, of course, when, you know, it actually comes to the logistics of this, that is a lot different when plays out with insurance companies and who they're granting coverage to.
LEMON: Yes.
COLLINS: So, it's still far, far from determined on this. And if the president does win re-election, this is going to be a major issue they're dealing with. And people inside the White House know it.
LEMON: Kaitlan, what the president has said now, there's no guarantee that pre-existing conditions will be covered. So, thank you, Kaitlan. I appreciate it.
COLLINS: Of course.
LEMON: I told you the president's former fixer Michael Cohen predicted last year that there won't be a peaceful transition of power if Trump loses. All the way back to last year, he said it. So, what's the next play from the Trump playbook? He should know. I'm going to ask the man who ran it for years, actually helped write down -- write that playbook. Michael Cohen, next.
This is all happening as the Supreme Court that we watch right now as they prepare to bring the casket of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg inside the building in preparation for her to lay in state at the Capitol tomorrow, the first woman in history to do so.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You've heard the news by now. We told you this president is refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power if he loses the election to Joe Biden, and tonight trying to cast doubt on the integrity of the vote.
Michael Cohen is here, the president's former personal attorney. He is the author of "Disloyal, A Memoir: The True Story of the Former Personal Attorney to President Donald J. Trump." So, as well as the host of the podcast Mea Culpa, by the way.
Michael, thank you very much. I appreciate you joining us. You're the perfect person to talk about this because you know the playbook. A lot of the playbook you wrote yourself. This president is refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power. You called it. This is what you said, this was last year in February on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: Indeed, given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power. And this is why I agreed to appear before you today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why was this so predictable for you? What's going to come next?
COHEN: Well, the problem -- or I should say the difference between myself and others that are either writing books about Mr. Trump or come on shows and talk about him is I actually know Mr. Trump. And at the end of the day, here's what I told you 19 months ago, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power when he loses. He refuses to give up this power. He will not give up this power easily.
[22:24:59]
And he's going do everything in his power -- think about what he -- what he's doing. He's -- it's no different than when he builds a building. He's laying a foundation of an argument that he's going to bring, whether it's before the Supreme Court or to the Supreme Court, that's going to challenge the validity of these -- of these ballots.
He's using Louis DeJoy on a daily basis in order to play with the -- with the mail system in order to create what he keeps terming as voter fraud. What you have to understand with Donald Trump is he's the master deflector. What he's going to do here is claim that the Democrats are interfering with the -- with the ballots and that he's not going to have a legitimate shot at winning because the ballots are going to be skewed in Joe Biden's favor.
What he's doing is he's deflecting. It's really, he who is playing with the mail system. It's he who is getting rid of the sorting machines and all the mailboxes. It's he who is doing this, and he's just deflecting it in order to sow some doubt in people's head --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Or projection --
COHEN: Democrats and Joe Biden.
LEMON: He's projecting meddling in the election on someone else the way that he's actually doing it himself.
COHEN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
LEMON: Listen, I want to read this quote for you. This is Ben Sasse and he said this. "The president says crazy stuff. We always had a peaceful transition of power. It is not going to change." Crazy stuff, he says. Do these guys still not know who they are dealing with?
COHEN: They know exactly who they're dealing with and they're afraid of him. They're afraid of him because of their own campaign because he's controlling the RNC, and they don't particularly care.
Somehow, like the way I fell into the cult of Trump, they have fallen into it. Whether it's the Rand Paul's, the Ted Cruz's, the Jim Jordan's, the Mark Meadows, they've all fallen into this crazy cult of Trump. And when I went before the honorable Elijah Cummings, one of the things I was very clear about -- and I spoke not just to Mr. Cummings but -- Congressman Cummings, but at the same time, I was speaking to the country and telling them, put the Visine in your eyes and open your eyes and see what Trump is doing.
And I'm trying to give you the playbook because I know the playbook so well. I know the playbook so well I predicted it 19 months in advance. And I'll tell you what else I predicted when I called him a racist and when I called him a con man. You see what's happening in the news.
Eric Trump now has to be deposed by the attorney general, right? Racist. Do we have, even have to go there? I mean, there is not a single act that he takes of empathy towards the loss of life that's happening in the minority -- specifically the black community. It's -- I mean, everything that I said --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Because of the pandemic.
COHEN: -- has turned out to be accurate.
LEMON: Because of the pandemic.
COHEN: That's correct.
LEMON: Yes. So then, OK. So, you know the playbook then. What's the antidote to this, do you think he's going to push this and drag the country along in it, along with him?
COHEN: Specific -- what are you trying to -- what are you trying to say, Don? LEMON: So, what is the antidote to this then? If he -- if you think
that he's going to -- do you think there is an antidote or he's just going drag the country in this mess along with him?
COHEN: He's -- he is the master of chaos. And he is going to sow chaos each and every day up and through the election. He's going to continuously deflect all of his negatives upon Joe Biden. For example, Joe Biden's cognitive perception is now flawed. It's not true. It's actually he who feels that his cognitive skills are now being impaired.
When he turns around and he calls somebody stupid, he's really referring to himself and not to that person. I mean, everything he's doing is deflection. It is just -- he is the king of deflection. And for some unknown reason that nobody can understand and explain.
Why is it that 38 percent of this country are buying it? For God's sakes, don't you have the same thing that I have, Trump fatigue syndrome? Right? I mean, everything he's doing is creating what I call on my podcast Mea Culpa. I call it Trump derangement syndrome. He's made all of us crazy. You don't know what he's going to start and what he's going to do tomorrow in the morning.
And he may start at 8 o'clock, 7 o'clock, 6 o'clock in the morning, whether it's a crazy tweet or the first time he gets in front of the camera.
LEMON: Yes.
COHEN: You know, the problem is, he lies, Don, so much. He lies so much that nobody knows when he's telling the truth. Well, let me say this to the American people, right? Do you know how you know Donald Trump is lying? His mouth is moving. And that's just a fact. There's nothing that he's saying right now that has -- that is honest, that is truthful. Everything he's saying is an absolute lie, and he's pulling the world's greatest con on the American people.
[22:30:03]
LEMON: Yes. I tell you what, he's keeping therapists in this country employed because everyone has anxiety. I've got to ask you, though, how do you think he felt being booed on the steps of the Supreme Court in front of everyone today?
COHEN: So, he's going to turn around and tell you that he didn't hear the boos, you know, he didn't pay attention to it. In fact, they weren't boos, they were actually cheers, and people were cheering so hard and they were so loud and they were clapping so hard for him that a few people had to go to the hospital because their fingers broke and that they had fractures in their hand.
He sees the world differently than you and I. He doesn't understand reality. He is 100 percent oblivious to what is truthful and what is reality. And that is why I keep calling it Trump derangement syndrome. He's completely deranged. He's delusional. LEMON: OK. I've got to run, Michael, OK? Because I've got a lot of
show to get to. So, if you -- well, just brevity, please. What happens if he loses? Can he accept that in his mind, that is he -- has lost the election or is it something that he will never accept a loss? How might he react?
COHEN: He will never -- he will never accept the loss. He -- he is -- in his mind, there is no way that he's going to lose because with Louis DeJoy he's going on the Putin playbook, which is it doesn't matter who vote -- who you vote for. All that matters is who's counting the vote.
And what he's doing right now is he's trying to set this up, and I think the American people need to be very, very careful, and I think we need to be very diligent, and I think we really have to be very concerned about the Supreme Court nomination.
LEMON: Yes. The book is called "Disloyal." Thank you, Michael. I appreciate it.
COHEN: Good to see you, Don.
LEMON: You as well.
COHEN: My pleasure.
Republicans in Congress breaking with President Trump over his refusal to commit to a peaceful transition of power if he loses, but do they have any credibility left?
John Kasich, there he is. After the break.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the president is doubling down on his refusal to commit to a peaceful transition of power, as top Republicans break with his comments, but without actually criticizing him directly.
Joining me now is CNN's senior commentator and former Ohio Governor John Kasich. Governor, good to see you. How are you doing?
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good -- good to see you, Don. Good. Doing well.
LEMON: You know. You're in Ohio, right? Mail-in ballots have been working for 20 years there.
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: Not a partisan issue there.
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: With the governor and secretary of state, by the way, both Republicans. So how worried is Trump that a free and fair election is going to cost him his job?
KASICH: There isn't any evidence that these absentee ballots or mail- in ballots cause trouble, Don. I was talking to a friend of mine who's been on the board of elections here in central Ohio, which is now Ohio's biggest county. He said, you know, we see a couple things here and there where somebody just made a mistake but he said we've seen no absence of fraud.
And, you know, today the FBI director says that there is, you know, no evidence that there is going to be fraud. I do think it's possible we will not know the results of the election on election night because, you know, here in Ohio, the way it works here, Don, is if you wanted to vote, you're a resident of Ohio -- you wanted to vote by mail, you'd have to vote the day before the election.
And then the state of Ohio provides in the law that they can count that ballot up to 10 days after the election. But this has been in place for a very long time. And it's worked out well. And, you know, we also give people a great opportunity to vote. They can early vote, one of the greatest early vote opportunities in the country. And it's worked out just fine.
LEMON: You --
KASICH: So, this is -- this is just not -- this is just baloney is what it is.
LEMON: I think you misspoke. You said they've seen no absence of fraud. You mean no evidence of fraud, right, in Ohio?
KASICH: No evidence of fraud. I'm sorry.
LEMON: OK. No, that's all right.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: But you get the absentee ballots confused.
LEMON: No, I say things all the time. And my producers tell me, you know you said. No, I didn't. They play the tape for me and I inevitability said what they said.
KASICH: Yes. I get home and my wife says you said something you didn't say it right.
LEMON: Trump might win, but if he loses, he probably won't accept it. You heard what Michael Cohen said. I want you to look at these pictures. They showed dignity in office. This is Herbert Hoover at FDR -- to FDR. This is Jimmy Carter to Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush to Bill Clinton. So, what is different about this guy?
KASICH: Where do you start? And when you want to talk about contested elections, there's two that jump out right in front of me. One is Al Gore. And Al, you know, he conceded that election. He could have fought it. He said, no, for the good of the country we won't -- we will not fight this thing. Richard Nixon in 1960, if you read back in history and read some of
the things that he's wrote -- he wrote and other people who were close to him wrote, they actually thought that he had the election stolen from him. And he said, I'm not going to contest the election. This is not good for the country.
So, we have two good cases here in recent history where people said the country has to come first. My concern about this, and I think we talked about this some time ago, is when people start to doubt the result of an election or whether the election is on the up and up, you then could have as many as 20, 25 percent of the American people who say not a legitimate election. And where does that take us as a country? I mean, it's extremely, extremely concerning, right?
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: I mean, you and I feel the same way. You got to be able to concede whether -- if you lose, you have to say, okay, somebody else beat me. End of story.
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: You can't hang on to this stuff.
LEMON: Yes. This is called sportsman like conduct, right? Conduct. But, listen, GOP senators, they're trying to shrug off the president's comments. I want you to listen to these.
[22:40:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: We need a nine-person Supreme Court. And people wonder about the peaceful transfer of power. I can assure you it will be peaceful.
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TN): George Washington said the distinguishing characteristic of our democracy is the peaceful transfer of power. That's what keeps us from being a banana republic. There is really nothing much more important than that and there will be a peaceful transfer of power.
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL): There will be a peaceful transition of power, no matter what anybody says.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
But the same senators said a Supreme Court vacancy shouldn't be filled in an election year. Then they flip-flopped on it. So why should people trust them?
KASICH: Well, there will be a peaceful transfer of power if Donald Trump loses. There isn't any two ways about it. People aren't going to sit there and say -- look, there's going be some authority that's going to declare the winner. And when the winner is declared, that's the end of it. Then we move forward. And so, there's no doubt in my mind that we will have a winner. I
don't know that it will go to the Supreme Court. In regard to the Supreme Court, Don, my sense is the Republicans should not appoint somebody at this -- at this time. They have the power to. They have the constitutional right to, but I don't think they should.
If they do, I don't -- I also don't believe that the Democrats ought to expand the court. We're almost in a race to the bottom. We're just going push this through because we have the power. And if we're the Democrats, we're going to come back and expand the court. Where does this end? Where does it end? It's a race to the bottom in our country. That's what I worry about.
So, I do believe we'll have a peaceful transfer of power. We may not know the results on election night, but we will get them. And there will be a winner declared and we'll move on.
LEMON: It's all good. Everything you said was fine. Your wife will be happy tonight. Thank you, governor. Governor, I'll see you soon.
KASICH: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: I appreciate it.
KASICH: All right. Thank you.
LEMON: Protests in Louisville for the second night after the decision not to charge police officers directly with Breonna Taylor's death. We're going to have a live report from the streets where curfew is now in place. That's next. Live pictures.
[22:45:00]
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LEMON: Well, there's a second night of protests in Louisville, Kentucky, after no police officers are charged directly in the shooting death of Breonna Taylor, curfews in place for a second night as well.
I want to bring in CNN's Jason Carroll live in Louisville for us. Jason, good evening to you. You've been marching with the protesters tonight. What are you seeing?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's come to a bit of a standoff here, Don, at this church, First Unitarian Church here in Louisville. You can see there are still any number of protesters on the front lawn of their church. They've been met by a line of officers out here as well.
Now here's what happened. As this group of protesters marched throughout the city of downtown Louisville they knew that the curfew was approaching at 9 o'clock, and so what they had arranged was with this church is to meet here at this church so they would be on what they thought would be neutral grounds so they would not get arrested. And so, as they were stationed here, some decided to go inside, but
now some want to go home. And so now what we're seeing is one of the members of the clergy negotiating with police to try to arrange so some of these demonstrators can make it home without being arrested for being out past curfew.
Now, we've also noted that as we've been out here, we've seen any number of officers out here at this point, but we've also seen some of them pull back in some ways. So, some officers pulling back, but a negotiation now going on between these protesters who are out here, Don, and members of the police department, in terms of trying to remain some way for some of these protesters to go home without getting arrested. So, it's a standoff. Standoff that looks like it has no sight of ending, at least not yet.
LEMON: All right.
CARROLL: Don?
LEMON: Jason Carroll will keep an eye on it for us. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
The FDA commissioner is saying a coronavirus vaccine will not be based on politics, but President Trump seems to have other plans. So, what are Americans supposed to believe?
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Breaking news. A key model from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation now projecting 371,000 total coronavirus deaths in the U.S., that's by the end of the year, the model projecting up to 3,000 deaths per day.
Here to discuss now former Harvard Medical School professor, William Haseltine. Professor, thank you. I appreciate you joining us.
WILLIAM HASELTINE, FORMER PROFESSOR, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: you're welcome.
LEMON: So, these numbers are just stunning, this projection of 317,000 deaths by January 1st. I mean, that's a 7 -- that is 7,000 less deaths projected than last week. So, researchers say that nearly 100,000 deaths could be prevented if 95 percent of the population wars masks. So, give me your reaction to this.
HASELTINE: Well, that is the sad fact. And it looks like we're entering a real second wave, we're actually in a third wave. First was, we thought we had it under control when we had 20,000 people a day being infected. Now it's 40,000 people. And now that we're back at work it's getting cooler, it looks like it's going up again to higher than that, 60,000 or 70,000 people a day.
There are a lot of things we can do to slow it down but we're not doing them. And in fact, we're now being encouraged to do quite the opposite.
LEMON: Yes. The president has suggested that the White House could override the FDA if it releases tougher standards for vaccine authorization. The FDA chief now says that that process will be based in science. This back and forth is unnerving for all of us. And I want your response, what do you think?
HASELTINE: Well, you're correct. It is deeply unnerving and it's distressing that the FDA considered position should be overruled by politics. But even beyond that, it's obvious that the process of vaccine approval has had steep political pressure put on it. The four companies revealed their strategy for testing vaccine, it's not a test. It's basically a rubber stamp.
And so far from what most people consider a rigorous test. They are not required to show that it prevents you from getting infected. They're not required to show you that the vaccines prevent you from getting sick. They are not required to show you that the virus doesn't kill you.
They are only required to say if you are re-infected and there are more people without colds than in the vaccinated group, then in the group that it doesn't get a vaccine, then we send it for emergency use of approval.
[22:55:09]
In some cases, that group is as small as 25 or 30 people that are going to be studied. So, there's nothing like the 30,000 or 60,000 people that are going to be indicated. This isn't going to protect us or isn't supposed to protect us.
In fact, by the very nature of their tests, they are assuming the virus will infect people who are vaccinated. So the pressure has already been applied. I think the counter pressure now on the FDA has been such an uproar that they have reconsidered their precious position which I am happy to see. And now there is a standoff between the political forces and the forces within the FDA.
It's distressing for somebody like me who spent their life in science, admiring the CDC, admiring the NIH, admiring the FDA to see it warp by Warp Speed.
LEMON: Yes.
HASELTINE: Even the NIH and the CDC have been affected by the pressure that's put on them.
LEMON: I can only imagine how you are feeling. Thank you, professor. I appreciate it.
HASELTINE: You're welcome. Thank you very much.
LEMON: President Trump for the second time in 24 hours refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power and he is trying to cast doubt on the election results. We're going to break through his lies and distractions in just a moment.
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