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Don Lemon Tonight
"New York Times" Finding Donald Trump Didn't Pay Federal Income Tax In 10 Of 15 Years; President Trump Ignores Tax-Related Questions; CDC Pressured By The White House; Fabricated Claims Will Haunt Trump; Grand Juror Files A Lawsuit. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 28, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: We see that all the time. But it's about the questions and we definitely have an answer to one of them, to nothing else, which is, you now know why he didn't want you to see his taxes.
The Biden/Trump debate tomorrow night. You can watch is right here on CNN. Special coverage begins at 7 p.m. That's all for me. Time for the best part of my night "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon right now. We will be on the real deal shift tomorrow night.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: CNN after dark.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: So, you're ready. I have -- so stay tuned I have some reporting about the Biden debate preps that I'm going to give to our viewers, but there you go.
CUOMO: Tantalizing.
LEMON: Are you ready? Are you ready for our thing? Because you know it's just us talking. They just turn the cameras on and we go. That's a lot of trouble that we can get in.
CUOMO: No way. It's insight, baby.
LEMON: Me, too.
CUOMO: It's insight. We break it down for people.
LEMON: It's the real deal.
CUOMO: We give them the real day -- deal. Yes. The hours are easy. We love working from 1 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. All day hundo p.
LEMON: Right. I'll see you.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: So, let me tell you something.
LEMON: What? What do you want to talk about? CUOMO: We now know why he wanted to hide the taxes, Don Lemon.
LEMON: Didn't we know -- OK, no. We now have proof of what we were saying about him and the taxes. We all knew. Everybody knows. Come on, Chris. You're from a New York family. You've been -- you're a New Yorker. You have been here all your life. You already knew. Didn't you?
CUOMO: What does that mean? We all cheat on our taxes?
LEMON: No. But it means -- it means you've been around long enough to know Donald Trump's M.O. to know about him. To know how he handles business, to know how he stiffs contractors and so on. To know how litigious he is, that he sues everyone and then waits for them to -- we all knew that.
CUOMO: Four hundred twenty-one million dollars.
LEMON: Yes. Yes. And I --
CUOMO: In personally guaranteed loans means one, those guys and women anybody who was a lender didn't see enough value in your assets of the company that they were lending against that they wanted to catch as much of you as they could, which doesn't speak well of what they valued your asset at.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That the main loan was about. And you got to know who -- some is in public but some of it isn't. Who does he owe the money to?
LEMON: Yes. And that's the question. Who does he owe the money to? Who is he beholden to? How does that compromise him as a President of the United States and the national security and then us, Americans, right? Because it certainly compromises us. But I have to tell you that's important and we're going to talk about it.
But as I talk to every day folks and you know I include my mother as one of my unofficial --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Kitchen cabinet.
LEMON: -- focus groups -- kitchen cabinet -- and she said she is so ticked off because she remembers -- at this point she's retired so she's good. She doesn't like having to pay all those taxes but she pays them. She can afford to pay them now.
But she said when we were coming along and she was a single mom and, you know, when my -- after my dad had died and she said she would have to pay taxes in increments and if she didn't pay it on time, she would be get - they would be higher. She would get charged for them.
And the idea of someone who brags about how rich they are and how great a business person they are to pay no taxes or to pay $750 in taxes is the height of insulting to the American people, especially the working-class people who you're supposed to represent. None of those working-class people have the privilege that he has to pay no taxes or to pay $750 in taxes.
Can you imagine if we, you or I, could pay $750 in taxes, I'd be jumping up and down running around the corner right now.
CUOMO: Absolutely. You know what's it's called? Systemic inequality. It happens on the basis of color. It happens on the basis of class. And remember, there are all these men and women in families out there right now who are banking on Trump to change the game.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He knew the game. He'd exposed the game. He's made it worse.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He took care of people like him in the COVID-19 bill. He took care of people like him in his tax bill that he said was middle class, it wasn't.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It wasn't.
LEMON: It was not.
CUOMO: He made the game solidified for people like him.
LEMON: Well, and that's where I'm going to begin. Thank you, brother. I'll see you.
CUOMO: You'll do it better and I'll be watching. I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I love you too, brother. I'll talk to you later.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
I hope you're mad. You should be mad. I shouldn't say you should be mad. You should be mad because this is our breaking news tonight.
We are less than 24 hours away from the first presidential debate of 2020. Donald Trump and Joe Biden set to go head to head tomorrow night with election day just 36 days away. And this president is likely going to be forced to talk about the secrets that he's been trying to hide for years, the secrets in his tax returns.
You heard Chris. That why he didn't want people to know. That's why he didn't want you to see it undercuts his businessman, I'm a great businessman thing. You know if he had just saved the money that he inherited from his father he probably would be richer than he is now, than he is now.
[22:05:02] Tonight, as we go on the air, the New York Times has put out new reporting calling the man most of America met on "The Apprentice," the man who's now the President of the United States the fictional alter ego of the real Donald Trump.
Now we know the difference between the person Donald Trump has been selling America and the real Trump. The weak Trump. The one who is buried in debt and running a giant shell game. Even in the White House.
Now we know the truth behind the facade of a billionaire businessman. That explosive investigation by the New York Times finding Donald Trump didn't pay even one penny in federal income tax in 10 of the 15 years beginning in 2000. And then both the year he won the presidency and his first year in office in the White House, Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes.
But don't give me that plea -- and don't give me that thing about how he donates his -- that is P.R. OK? That's not that much money to even make a dent. So, stop it. OK? Have a seat.
But how did he dodge paying income taxes for so many years? The man who sold himself to you as a mega successful businessman who ran as a master of the art of the deal. In reality, reported losing hundreds of millions of dollars on some of his marquee businesses.
Since 2000, this is a deal, he reported losing more than -- look at that number. $315 million at his golf courses that he talks about so much. My great golf courses at a -- $315 million, lost, a lot of that at Trump National Doral, the resort where he wanted to host the G7 this year. Remember that story? And then he backed down in the face of outrage.
At his Trump international hotel in D.C. the one he always when he touts and people will stay because they want, you know, to get in the favor with the president. He reported losing more than $55 million since it opened, great businessman.
And at Trump Corporation the real estate services company, a business that he claims to know, real estate, he reported losing $134 million since 2000. Come on, people. Really? It's too -- it's too in your face. It's so obvious that maybe you don't want to believe it.
The fact is for years this president has been conning the American people into believing that he is a super-star businessman, conning, fraud. Donald Trump told Sean Hannity this. This is in 2011, hat tip to CNN's KFile for it. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS: Do you not pay any taxes? I didn't know that.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I pay tax. I pay a lot of tax. I signed a big fat check recently for a lot of tax.
HANNITY: I hear the dripping resentment in your voice.
TRUMP: Well, I paid literally, I paid a lot of tax. And you know, look. I don't mind. I'm proud to pay it up. If I owe it, I pay it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I just signed a big fat check, $750 or nothing, but while he was saying that he pays a lot of tax, that's how he says it, that he pays a lot of tax, confidential record show that starting in 2010, Trump claimed and received an income tax refund totaling $72.9 million, $72 million. All the federal income tax he paid for 2005 through 2008, plus interest. So really it took nerve for him to tell Hannity this the very next year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The amazing thing is that half of the country is paying nothing. Zero. And even if you don't make a lot you should have to pay something, just something to be a part of the game. But half of the country is paying nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. OK, so, I'm going to lay out the facts for you here, right? So, you can see the hypocrisy. Pay attention.
This is the man who tweeted in 2012, when he was paying nothing, by the way, that half of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling government debt. He was paying nothing. Who, in a stunning display of do as I say not as I do tweeted that the former President Obama only paid 20.5 percent.
[22:10:05]
And how about this? Donald Trump tweeting in 2012 have we ever had a POTUS before Barack Obama who earned a third of the income from foreign sources and paid taxes to another country?
OK, so, in Trump's first two years in the White House, the Times reports his revenue from abroad totaled $73 million, including licensing deals worth $3 million in the Philippines, $2.2 million from India, 1 million from Turkey. It's projection. When he says something about someone else, he is talking about himself.
Who repeatedly tweeted out pictures of himself -- look at that. Come on, now, signing returns. It's a con, everyone. Implying he was making huge contributions to America, when he was actually paying zero, zero. It's a con.
This is man who before the inauguration, his inauguration when he paid a grand total of $750 in federal income taxes claimed he was handing over control of his empire to his two oldest sons while maintaining ownership and refusing to let reporters examine the prop piles of paper that amounted to nothing but a house of card.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: These papers are just some of the many documents that I've signed turning over complete and total control to my sons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A lot of paper on the desk. Great for pictures. House of cards. It's all an act.
This is a man who in 2016, in the 2016 debate with Hillary Clinton (AUDIO GAP) not paying federal income tax means he's smart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Maybe he doesn't want the American people all of you watching tonight to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes. Because the only years that anybody has ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license. And they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. So, if he's --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: That makes me smart.
CLINTON: -- paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He admits it. He said it to you, that makes me smart. He was looking at her like thinking how do you know that. Yet, he come up with something that makes me smart. What does that make you, dumb? Because you pay your fair share of income taxes? If that makes him smart, that means you're dumb.
This is the man who actually said out loud that he fights like hell to avoid paying a lot of taxes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think they'll be surprise of how little I pay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lower or higher than expected?
TRUMP: You know they're going to be surprised at how little I pay. I fight like hell not to pay a lot of taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He was on "The Apprentice." So, that's important because that reality TV show was his lifeline. He saved his business by acting, acting like a businessman on TV. He made 427.4 million. But as an entertainer and marketer who sold his own name. Not as the mogul he claimed to be. The crown jewel of his so-called empire Trump tower isn't what it seems either. There's a $100 million mortgage coming due in 2022. Trump has paid
interest on the loan but nothing on the principle, the president far from the billionaire that he claims to be. He's personally responsible for loans and other debts totaling $421 million.
Isn't that the money that he -- that's like the money he initially got from his dad. Like I said, if he'd just invested that, $420 million, most of it coming due in four years during what would be his second term if he wins reelection. Yet he says, quote, "I am extremely under leveraged. I have very little debt compared to the value of assets."
[22:14:58]
Another con because here's the fact. This president owes a staggering 421 million and we don't know who that money is owed to. You know, he has made millions from projects in foreign countries. But the president literally walked away from the question today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, who do you owe hundreds of millions of dollars?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why didn't they play that music right there, money, money, money. He owes money. Andrew Weissmann who worked on the Mueller investigation tweeting, a reminder today of what the president's son Eric reportedly the golf reporter about funding Trump courses. Quote, "well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia."
Eric Trump has denied making that remark but you've got to wonder, so the truth is this president is not the business genius he pretends to be. Let's not forget what the former fixer Michael Cohen told Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER: It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes. Such as trying to be listed amongst the wealthiest people in Forbes and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Donald Trump has been gaming the system for years. The system he loves to claim is rigged against him. The Biden campaign putting out this ad in response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(ON SCREEN TEXT): Typical income tax, elementary school teacher, $7,239. Typical income tax, firefighter, $5,283. Typical income tax, construction manager, $16,447. Typical income tax, registered nurse, $10,216. Federal income taxes paid, Donald Trump, $750.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Donald Trump has been conning America for years. His business record is a sham. He's deeply in debt. He's not a good businessman. He just plays one on TV. And when he made money that way, as lucky as he is, he didn't want to pay his fair share. He asked for a $72 million back from the American people while you pay up year after year.
You wonder, when that bill will come due. When?
Kaitlan Collins, our White House correspondent is here.
Kaitlan, good evening to you. We have the second installment of the bomb shell New York Times report on Trump's taxes tonight. Digging into the money he made on "The Apprentice" and the enormous tax refund he claimed when he wanted it back. So, the White House is calling this fake news. No shocker there. So why don't they release the tax documents to prove that it's fake news?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well that's one of the main issues with their defense, Don. As they have said that this is not true. They've disputed what the New York Times is reported but they haven't provided any documents to really back that up. Or something they could easily do. They could release the president's tax returns and say actually here's what he paid. Here's the full picture.
Because tonight, they've said well this is just a snapshot of the president's expenses when they do have that opportunity to provide a full picture of exactly what it is that the president's finances are. And of course, that's why the New York Times did this investigation is because the president refused to release his tax returns despite once promising to do so.
But, Don, the president's defense has separate issues because he is at once claiming that this information was illegally obtained while also saying that it's fake news. And of course, it cannot be both at the same time.
But that's really the defense mainly that you've seen from the president. And he didn't answer those questions today as you noted in the Rose Garden. But he is going to face questions about it at tomorrow's debate (AUDIO GAP). The president's own campaign advisers are fully aware of.
LEMON: Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much, in Cleveland for us. We appreciate it.
Donald Trump and Joe Biden face off in the first presidential debate. Watch it all play out live right here on CNN, special coverage tomorrow starting at 7 p.m. Eastern Time. New reporting just out tonight from the New York Times reveals that
the man behind the curtain is not the successful businessman, billionaire businessman that Donald Trump claims to be. He just played one on TV. Catherine Rampell, Michael D'Antonio here to break it down after the break.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: "The New York Times" out with new reporting tonight on how reality TV fame really handed Donald Trump a lifeline. Calling his apprentice turn -- turn his fictional -- his apprentice turn his fictional alter ego.
That on top of their explosive report that President Trump paid no income tax in 10 out of 15 years starting in the year 2000 and he is hundreds of millions of dollars in debt.
Let's discuss now with CNN Economics Commenter, Catherine Rampell, CNN Contributor Michael D'Antonio, the author of "The Truth About Trump."
Good evening to both of you. Good to see you.
Michael, I'm going to start with you. In this follow up story tonight the New York Times says this. It says, by analyzing the tax records the New York Times was able to place a value on Mr. Trump's celebrity. While the return show that he earned $197 million directly from "The Apprentice" over 16 years - roughly in line with what he has claimed, they also revealed that in additional 230 million flowed from the fame associated with it.
This reminds me a little bit of the "Wizard of Oz," Michael, -- I said wizard of odds, Wizard of Oz, Michael, when the man behind the curtain is revealed, you know, the whole thing he's just there for show and pulling strings. Is that it?
[22:25:01]
MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, do you mean to tell me that Donald Trump really wasn't a great businessman? I'm so shocked. You mean to tell me that he actually was just a con artist inflating his business acumen and selling himself to the American public so that he could advance a brand? Well, in fact, that's what he's always done.
This goes back to way before "The Apprentice." You know, you remember his advertising for his casino, Don, in Atlantic City. He used to tell the people who ran the casinos I don't care about the terrible headlines. We're selling the lifestyle that I represent.
So, all along it's been about publicity, it's been about selling himself. He's never been a good business operator. He ran those casinos into the ground. He ran Trump airways into bankruptcy. He did the same thing with the plaza hotel. He's been a fraud, and as you said, a con man all of his life. And all the facts are catching up with him. And what we're left with is the one thing that he does well and that
is play someone competent on TV.
LEMON: Yes.
D'ANTONIO: He's not doing well with the presidency. He can't just con us with that, but that's what he did as the name behind "The Apprentice."
LEMON: Yes. And his wife actually ran, Ivana actually the plaza and couple of the casinos as well. How do I know that? Well, I talk to --
D'ANTONIO: Yes.
LEMON: I had a conversation once. OK. So, listen, Catherine, Trump used the money he was paid by -- paid for by "The Apprentice" and the endorsement deals to fund his other businesses. Mostly his golf courses and he's putting more cash into his businesses than he was taking out. So, walk us through how this worked.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think one of the big takeaways from the New York Times' bomb shell reporting had this mindbogglingly enormous losses across his businesses, which suggests that he was either an unusually terrible businessman or cheating Uncle Sam, but most likely both.
I mean, there are -- there's no obligation, there's no moral or legal obligation for Trump to have been paying a penny more in taxes than he owed. Of course, he was going to try to minimize his legal tax obligations. And as a real estate investor he has a lot of loopholes at his disposal to do just that.
There are a lot of deductions available, essentially just to people in his industry. Even so, his golf courses were an enormous, and as far as we know still are an enormous money pit, the same with many of his other properties. He is just losing tons and tons of money.
And on top of that, he is taking lots of dubious deductions and tax credits that at the very least look extremely aggressive. At the worse, look somewhat like they are likely to be large scale fraud. So, not only has the bubble been burst if it ever existed on this image of him as the competent businessman. Of course, I mean, the idea that his prowess was anything other than just like inflating, as Michael talks about, you know, his sort of influence or status -- excuse me -- you know, it's also revealing that whatever skill he had was not just about inflating his profile.
LEMON: Yes.
RAMPELL: It was also potentially cheating on his taxes.
LEMON: Well, Michael, my question is, you knowing him, who does he owe the money to? That's really the big question because that can compromise not only him but the American people.
D'ANTONIO: Well, I think there are a few clues to be explored. I think we should look at where he owns properties and where he's done things that benefit certain foreign governments, so where he owns properties that's all around the world. But it's places like the Philippines where he has interest in property, that India, Turkey.
You have to look then at places like Turkey and he abandoned Syria to Turkey and allowed the Kurds to be taken advantage of. Why did that happen? Where did the financing come from that might related to that move where Russia is concerned? He's bent over backwards to please Vladimir Putin.
And we do know that his son said that a lot of their financing came from Russia. And at the very least, all of these oligarchs and mini oligarchs brought their ill-gotten gain from former Soviet Republics to Trump build communities in Florida and in New York throughout the 2000s.
So, there's been money flowing to Trump from sources both legit and I suspect illegitimate when it comes to the interest of the American people. And I think this is something he dreads us discovering but it may come out soon.
[22:30:02]
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it.
RAMPELL: And I think --
LEMON: I've got to run, Catherine. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
We have some breaking news tonight that I want to report. CNN is now confirming that the White House pressured the CDC to downplay the risk of sending children back to school so schools would reopen. Stay with us for more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Here is our breaking news tonight. A former staffer for Vice President Mike Pence confirming White House officials pressured the CDC to downplay the risk of sending children back to school.
This as infection rates are on the rise in more than half the country. I want you to just look at this map. twenty-one states are going in the wrong direction right now.
Let's discuss. Dr. Peter Hotez is here. He is the vaccine scientist and the dean of tropical medicine a Baylor College of Medicine.
[22:35:01]
Doctor, thank you so much. It's disturbing. Let's start with this breaking news, first reported by the Times. They write, and I quote here, that White House officials tried to circumvent the CDC in a search for alternate data showing that the pandemic was weakening and posed little danger to children.
So, CNN has now confirmed that. Is the administration trying to skew the science for political reasons here?
PETER HOTEZ, INFECTIOUS EXPERT, BAYLOR UNIVERSITY: Unfortunately, yes. I mean, this is -- this is actually one component of a pretty impressive and a nefarious way a disinformation campaign, an anti- science disinformation campaign put out by the White House.
I mean, look, I was -- you know, we have data coming out of South Korea that was published and over the summer, I think it was June or July. Showing that adolescence transmits this virus just as well as adults do and even little kids can transmit the virus pretty well.
And I was meeting, I remember over the summer meeting with school boards and teachers and principals and superintendents that were doing everything they could to adhere the CDC guidelines, doing things with Plexiglas and social distancing.
LEMON: Yes.
HOTEZ: And I would say to them, it was heartbreaking because I was saying to them, look, there are a few places in the country you can do this maybe up in the northern New England where transmission is so low. You can probably have an OK fall semester. But in places like Texas and Florida we had so much transmission. Teachers will get COVID and students will get COVID. And you'll have staff and bus drivers going into the hospital. I don't see a way it can work.
And then you had this alternate reality coming out of the White House. You had Scott, what's his name, Atlas, you know, writing an edit, very prominent op-ed in The Hill, explaining why it was safer, then we have to open schools. And you knew it was -- you know, it was not based -- not based on the data.
And then you had this very odd set of releases coming out of the CDC explaining why schools are important. As if we don't get that. I mean, we understand -- we understand why schools are important. I'm parent of four adult kids and when my kids were little and we understood why school were important, and also for food security and low-income neighborhoods and for mental health counseling. Everybody understood that.
But it was never linked to really strong evidence showing that it was going to be safe. And we knew it wasn't. So, this New York Times report just ties together an a -- just sort of a-ha moment. Yes, of course, now it all makes sense. This was more of a part of this deliberate misinformation campaign.
LEMON: Doctor, I think you've made your point than I got to ask one question. So, but you got everything covered. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
HOTEZ: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you.
The president keeps trying to discredit mail-in voting with his false claims. The FBI is warning about more fake claims of cyber-attacks. What you need to know about casting your vote. Stacey Abrams fills us in. There she is, after the break.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Election security expected to be a huge topic at tomorrow night's debate. President Trump repeatedly trying to undermine the integrity of the vote and pushing all sorts of false claims to do that.
Let's discuss now. Stacey Abrams is here, founder of Fair Fight Action and former Georgia gubernatorial candidate and state house leader. Good evening. If anyone knows about this, you went through the fire with it. It would be you, so I'm so happy that you're here to discuss it. Thank you, Leader Abrams.
Listen, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is reporting a Fulton County judge dismissed a case that could have purged more than 14,000 voters from county roles. How many more cases like this are out there?
STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT ACTION: Hopefully very few. The National Voter act really requires that no purging happen within 90 days of an election. We're 36 days out. And it's unconscionable that anyone who would attempt to strip someone of the right to vote usually this only happens because someone missed a previous election. And I believe, right now more than ever, every vote count and I'm pleased that that judge refused to countenance stripping Americans of the right to vote.
LEMON: Leader Abrams, President Trump has admitted that he wants to fill the open Supreme Court seat quickly in case SCOTUS needs to settle an election dispute. Are you worried about what happens if it comes to that?
ABRAMS: I'm not worried because I believe we are prepared to avoid that outcome. If every American uses their right to vote, if we exercise that right with calm and with deliberation, we can win. That means making a plan to vote, making that plan early.
In 45 states you can vote by mail with either no excuse or with COVID as an excuse. Almost every state that permits vote by mail has already started that process. In 41 states you can vote early in person. And everyone can vote on election day.
So, if we make plan to vote. If you go to vote.org, you can get information about what rules are in place in your state. And if we all utilize and leverage the power of our vote, we should not have to worry about any Supreme Court decision because the voice of the people will be heard by the counting of the votes.
LEMON: So, the president repeating his false claims that vote by mail leads to widespread fraud. At the same time, the FBI is warning that foreign actors are trying to undermine faith in voting security. Is this election interference not just from abroad but from our own president, Leader? ABRAMS: Absolutely. The president has engaged in a triad of skills. He
is lying about the vote. Trying to intimidate voters and trying to discredit very useful and available ways to vote.
[22:45:07]
He is cheating by encouraging people to do the wrong thing and by trying to keep to himself into his cronies the right to use the vote, the right of his voters, as he would put it, to actually use absentee ballots/vote by mail.
And he's trying to steal the future by preventing people from using the full array of opportunities.
LEMON: Yes.
ABRAMS: But if we keep our wits about us, if we remember that in this country, we have the right to vote. If we use that right and we make a plan early, then no matter what he throws at us, no matter what the republicans throw at us we can navigate it and still get to our place which is the ballot box and we can cast our votes.
LEMON: But also, you mention all the things that he has done. But he's also refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses. Does that refusal show how important it is to shore up confidence in our election process and the results?
ABRAMS: Well, I actually give very little credence to his attempts that further distraction and chaos. He likes to throw out ammunition hoping that we'll pay so much attention to his protestation that we ignore the real hard-core work being done by his campaign, to hire an army or to recruit an army of 50,000 poll intimidators, to block access to the right to vote by filing dozens of lawsuits but with the intent purpose of limiting access to the right to vote. They are doing their best to push disinformation.
And so, yes, you'll hear him throw out these refusals or these bomb shells. But really those are his stock and trade. Distraction while behind the scenes, his henchmen, and I'm using that language deliberately.
Those he has hired in his campaign whose sole purpose is to block voters from being able to cast their ballots. That is what's wrong and that is what we have to defend against because every American who is eligible to vote should cast their ballots this election season.
LEMON: Fair Fight Action. Where do our viewers go to get information?
ABRAMS: We'd love you to go to vote.org to get information about where to vote in the neighborhood and in your state. And if you go to fairfight2020.com you can get information about how you can help protect the right to vote for others. We need people so sign up to be poll workers.
And I just want to put in my plug as always, please make certain that you don't focus so much on the election that we forget about the future with the 2020 census. There's still time. Please fill out the census at my2020census.gov.
LEMON: You got it all in. Thank you, Leader Abrams. I appreciate it. We'll see you soon. Be safe.
ABRAMS: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. Breaking news tonight. Kentucky's attorney general says he will release the audio transcript of the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case. This, as a grand juror files a lawsuit tonight of their own. Stay with us.
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LEMON: So, we have some breaking news tonight in the Breonna Taylor case. Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron says he will comply with the judge's order to release the audio transcript of the grand jury recording in the Breonna Taylor case. That's after an unidentified grand juror filed a suit to have the grand jury transcript and recordings release and for fellow jurors to be free to speak about the case.
The attorney for the juror writing in the filing, the full story and absolute truth of how this matter was handled from beginning to end is now an issue of great public interest and has become a large part of the discussion of public trust throughout the country."
Perfect person to talk about all of this is CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor. So good to have you here. Again, this is your expertise, Laura, so thanks for doing this.
Two big developments tonight in this case. Let's start first with the Kentucky A.G. saying that he's going to comply with the release of that audio.
And here's a statement, it says, once the public listens to the recording they will see that over the course of two and a half days, our team presented a thorough and complete case to the grand jury. Our prosecutors presented all the evidence, even though the evidence supported that Sergeant Mattingly and Detective Cosgrove were justified in their use of force after having been fired upon by Kenneth Walker.
So, we're going to get to hear what the grand jury did. What do you think of that statement and the release?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, frankly, I'm surprised that he was so willing to actually fulfill the request of other people including the family for Breonna Taylor to get the information out there and the pursuit of transparency. Of course, a lot was left to be desired after his press conference, namely, why did we learn about inconsistency or inconclusively about which of the two officers fired the fatal shot into Breonna Taylor. We heard nothing about any inconclusive ballistics report related to
whether it was, in fact, Kenneth Walker whose bullet entered the leg of Officer Mattingly. We also had a lot of questions asked at the time at the press conferences, what type of information did you present to the grand jury given that you've already done with the inclusion that you thought the officers were justified in the shooting.
Was that a conclusion you made after you gave all the evidence of the grand jurors and they deliberated or did you say as a foregone conclusion, let's not even look there, let's not even go there right now, we're going to focus only on the other claims. Now we'll see the answer to those questions. I'm very eager to know.
LEMON: So, this is coming, this news is coming, Laura, after a grand juror sued for this to become public. Have you ever seen a grand juror in a case this high-profile come out and sue the state because the statements made -- because of statements made by the attorney general?
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COATES: Never. In fact, I think it's so race, I don't think anyone has heard of an instance when a grand juror is asking for the release because they want to make sure there is full transparency and that there seems to be some belief that there was a misleading nature of the press conference by the attorney general.
Now normally you have to keep grand jury proceedings secret because you want to preserve the ability of the prosecution and to preserve the ability of the defense to be able to have a fair trial.
So, if there's a decision not to prosecute, this is essentially the end of the inquiry. The secrecy preservation issues are just no longer there. There probably not any witness security issues that are lingering.
But for a grand juror to say, wait, I need the truth to fully be out there, can you allow the public to be able to judge for themselves even though the attorney general has already spoken, that speaks volumes about what they believed. His press conference and how it matched up to what they actually saw in the presentation of evidence.
LEMON: Laura Coates, thanks as always. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
"The New York Times" out with new reporting tonight on how reality TV fame handed Donald Trump a lifeline, calling "The Apprentice" his fictional alter ego, that on top of "The Times' report that Donald Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017.
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