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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Will Self-Quarantine While Awaiting COVID-19 test Results; CDC Guidelines on COVID-19; President Trump in Quarantine After Top Aide Tests Positive. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 01, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Here is our breaking news. It is big breaking news tonight. The president of the United States says he and the first lady will self-quarantine while awaiting COVID test results after his close aide Hope Hicks tested positive for the virus.
The president of the United States at this hour not sure if he is positive or negative for COVID-19, tweeting Hope Hicks, who has been working so hard without even taking a small break, has just tested positive for COVID-19, terrible.
The first lady and I are waiting for our test results. In the meantime, we will begin our quarantine process. I want you to listen to the president of the United States talking about this very subject a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, she did test positive. I just heard about this. She tested positive. She's a hard worker, a lot of masks. She wears masks a lot. But she tested positive. And I just went out with a test. I'll see -- you know, because we spend a lot of time -- and the first lady just went with a test also. So whether we quarantine or whether we have it. I don't know.
You know, it's very hard. When you're with soldiers, when you're with airmen, when you're with the marines and I'm with the police officers -- I'm with them so much, and when they come over to you, it's very hard to say stay back, stay back, you know? It's a tough kind of situation. It's a terrible thing. So, I just went for a test, and we'll see what happens. I mean, who knows?
But you know Hope very well. She's fantastic and she's done a great job. But it's very, very hard when you are with people from the military or from law enforcement and they come over to you and they want to hug you and they want to kiss you because we really have done a good job for them. You get close and things happen. I was surprised to hear with Hope, but she's a very warm person with them. And she knows there's a risk. But she's young. And I just went out for a test. They just do it. It will come back
later I guess, and the first lady also because we spend a lot of time with Hope and others. So, we'll see what happens. But I'll get my test back either tonight or tomorrow morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. Let's get right to CNN's Kaitlan Collins and also John Hardwood as well. Let me just say first off, we hope everybody involve is OK, including Hope Hicks the first lady, and the president of the United States.
Kaitlan, here is the thing. You know, you reported that you know, they are quarantining, got the results. That was at least an hour and a half ago when he went on to Fox News. He said it at the end of his interview. So, that's been about an hour now, at least an hour.
Two hours since he has known and since he talked about this. Why don't we know? They would have the results. You heard Dr. Reiner saying they would have the results at this moment. The American people deserve to know. Why aren't we hearing?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: If they were doing the 15-minute test, Don, we would have the results by now. But this math here obviously leads you to believe they are doing the test where it can take two to six hours to get those results. Those are the tests that are more accurate than the rapid ones. There are the 15-minute test. I think they have an 85 percent accuracy rate.
Those are the ones that staff are typically given and the president and reporters when they travel on Air Force One. And the fact that it's taking this long for them to figure out the president's result, leads you to believe they're doing a much more serious test. Now whether that means that they -- yes, Don?
LEMON: Kaitlan. Kaitlan, sorry but they have known since Wednesday night. Is that correct? Is that the reporting?
COLLINS: The New York Times reports that officials knew as early as yesterday. She has tested positive. So, you're right. It raises questions, why wasn't the president --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- what it seems like is that the timing lines up with when was this reported publicly is when the president was tested because it was reported around 8:00 tonight by Bloomberg. Then we quickly confirmed it. Several other outlets confirmed it as well. And so that would be the timing, because the president said he'll find out tonight or in the morning what results is.
So, of course, we do not know what the president's result is. That is concerning for a number of reasons. But also, you know, the president has got a full schedule tomorrow where he is supposed to be in Florida for a round table and a rally. And we're waiting to figure out what that means. He says they're quarantining. We don't know if that means, we are quarantining because they came
into contact with someone or willing to go into quarantine until we get a test result. That's still a being question for the president. But it does lead you to believe they're doing the much more serious and more accurate test that one that takes a little bit longer than the 15-minute test if it's taking this long for us to find out.
[23:05:08]
LEMON: OK. One more question, Kaitlan. And forgive me, because I had a very busy afternoon. Were you at the briefing today?
COLLINS: Yes, we were in the briefing today. Kayleigh Mcenany, brief reporters --
LEMON: Did she mention this at all, no?
COLLINS: No. The White House did not announce this. We want to be really clear to our viewers. This is not something we're learning about Hope Hicks, because Hope Hicks or anyone from the White House press shop told people.
It's because Bloomberg reported it and other outlets confirmed it and that the president did an interview where he talked candidly about it and of course spoke about the results and whether or not -- how he has not gotten them yet. So, that's the only way we know about this and that's been the same case for every other coronavirus test and case positive case inside the west wing.
LEMON: So, but, Kayleigh Mcenany never mentioned it today at all at the briefing.
COLLINS: Nope. You would not have had an idea just from that briefing that someone close to the president had tested positive.
LEMON: Interesting. John, let me bring you in. Because others in the White House have tested positive for coronavirus before, but the president has never taken precautions like this.
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And I got to say, I think it is very curious the state of affairs that we're in right now. As Dr. Reiner said a few minutes ago, you would think that given the way testing operates, that they would have done a rapid test initially that would give you a 15-minute result in addition to the PCR test which takes an hour or two.
So you would think that the president has already gotten the results of one test. Had that test been negative it is hard for me to imagine he would not have said that to Sean Hannity on the appearance that he just made. So it certainly raises the question of whether they are actually waiting for a result of either test or whether they're trying to figure out what to say about it.
I think it is a very concerning situation, and as Dr. Reiner said, the White House has an obligation to inform the American people as soon as they know something significant like this about the president's health and it's curious that they have not said anything in the three hours since the story has broken.
LEMON: Well, listen. In the three hours since the story has broken, but my point to Kaitlan, the reporting is that they believe they knew about this as of last night, as early as last night. Wednesday night.
HARWOOD: Right.
LEMON: And here we are Thursday, the president, according to him, is just getting a test. Kayleigh Mcenany held a briefing today, did not mention this. And if a top aide to the president of the United States has tested positive for the coronavirus and is in close contact with the president of the United States, the American people deserve to know that as well, even if we don't know the result of his test. The American people should have known about that as --
HARWOOD: Well, of course, Don.
LEMON: Go on.
HARWOOD: Well, I don't want to disillusion you, but this administration has a long-established record of not telling the truth, so I'm not surprised that Kayleigh McEnany did not announce it at the briefing.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Maybe she didn't know. Maybe she didn't know. I don't know.
HARWOOD: What's that?
LEMON: Maybe she didn't know. I don't know. I don't know why she wouldn't know if everyone else knew as of Wednesday night, if that reporting is correct, one would think, especially if Hope Hicks is at home and is very sick like sources are saying. I would think that they would know over at the White House, wouldn't you?
HARWOOD: Yes. Again, if they took a rapid test and a PCR test, they certainly have long since had the results of a rapid test. They have not said it. The president, in his phrasing to Hannity said, whether I have it, I don't know, we'll see what happens.
That's not the way the president usually talks -- usually he's very dismissive about this. I get test all the time, don't worry. Sounds like he's concerned about it, but he hasn't given us the results of the rapid test, if he took one.
And a long period of time since this news broke has elapsed and you would think that if he took the PCR test, they would also know that especially if they knew yesterday that Hope was sick. A couple other things to say Don, firs of all this is an awful news. It's a terrible and unpredictable disease. That Hope Hicks gets well soon. Hope the president does not have this virus. Hope the people who traveled with the president and hope the last couple of days do not have this virus.
But this is an event that underscores the stunning irresponsibility of this administration in not protecting themselves, not protecting people they come in contact with, not protecting their supporters by staging these packed rallies.
[23:10:06]
Let's don't forget -- Joe Biden forgot to mention this in the debate the other night, but Herman Cain, a former Republican presidential candidate, who attended an indoor rally in Tulsa the president held this summer died of coronavirus after attending that.
Multiple members of the president's staff got sick. This administration has not told the truth. And we know that from Bob Woodward. The president has not told the truth from the beginning. He has for reasons that don't make any sense politically or in any other way, mocked mask wearing, which is the best way that everyone has to protect themselves and each other. He has tried to disagree, dispute, downplay the science about how dangerous this is.
And I think that makes this a political event as well as a personal and health event. That is to say by underscoring at a time when the Trump campaign is already reeling, underscoring how irresponsible they have been when this hits that close to home.
LEMON: All right. John I want you to stand by, Kaitlan as well. I know you guys have some reporting to do. I want to bring in now Shirish Date a White House correspondent for the Huffington Post. Thank you. We know him at S.D. Thank you so much for joining us as we're here. You were on Air Force One with Hicks and the president and multiple White House staffers. When were you told about the exposure?
SHIRISH DATE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, HUFFINGTON POST: We weren't told about the exposure. We found out -- those of us on the plane found out about it today when everyone else did. Thanks to reporting by Bloomberg and then followed up by others.
So, yes, we saw Hope at the rally yesterday. I saw her get on the plane yesterday as we left Andrews. But, no, we had no idea that anyone on Air Force One yesterday had been exposed. And you know, as John was saying, I mean, this goes to the culture that the president has created within the White House where it's frowned upon to wear a mask, right?
LEMON: It's frowned upon at the White House to wear a mask?
DATE: Absolutely. Absolutely, I mean, staff in the press shop do not wear one. Do not wear one. And the logic is, well, we're at our desks and we are not interacting with people and we have been tested. We've all been tested, OK? But you know, the one thing that we've never really got a good answer to is, what's the delta between the time you get a test and the time that you're contagious and then the time that you may find out that you have been exposed? And is that one day? Is it four days? I mean, does it vary?
So in other words, there's a period of time that anyone who's exposed is also potentially be contaminating other people without even knowing that that has happened. And you can prevent that by wearing a mask. And at this White House, you don't want to do that because the president doesn't like it, plain and simple. LEMON: So, OK, so a couple questions. White House staffers were not
wearing masks on the plane, is that correct? Because you're saying it's frowned upon.
DATE: Not only -- in the White House itself. On the plane, I'm assuming so. When for example, when the Chief of Staff Mark Meadows came to visit us in the aft of the plane, last night on the way home, not wearing a mask.
Now, this is a bigger plane, so there's a little bit more room, but this has also happened on a small plane. He's come back, and we've asked. Because the rest of us, you know, on the press, we wear masks unless we're eating or drinking at that moment.
LEMON: OK. So, let me ask you, does anyone on Air Force One, as far as you know, do they wear masks?
DATE: Occasionally they do. I have been on a flight earlier this summer, when we could see Jared Kushner occasionally wearing a mask. Secretary Azar occasionally wearing a mask. But I'll tell you, the secret service guys they don't wear a masks usually and they weren't yesterday where we could see into the fourth compartment. So, you know, it fosters this idea that we're all safe, and obviously that's not necessarily true.
LEMON: How do you feel? What are you going to do?
DATE: Me, I -- I guess wait for some guidance. Again, the only person from the president's inner circle --
LEMON: No, I'm asking, have you been tested?
DATE: Well, I was tested yesterday with everybody else before we got aboard the plane, but you know, I had no reason until a few hours ago to think that you know, anything would be amiss. So --
LEMON: I just want to -- just as a -- I hate to use you as an example, but I must. Because you were doing the right thing, right? You were wearing a mask, you're trying to stay distant from people and doing what you think is right. But there were others who were not, which is the whole point of what we have been saying. Those others may have put you in jeopardy. Have you been around your family? Have you been around friends? Have you been around people since you have been back?
DATE: Of course. Of course.
LEMON: OK, so then you may have --
[23:15:00]
DATE: Yes. Absolutely. Right. I mean, that's -- that's where, you know what has been thought of as a safe exercise, to go to a place where people are socially distancing and wearing masks is -- you know, we can only do what we can do in the press corps. I mean, we're dependent on others to also do that and with this White House, we can't depend on that. They won't. They don't. LEMON: What do you want the say about this, S.D., before I let you go?
Are you worried about yourself?
DATE: I haven't really processed that yet. I -- you know, let's see how I feel tomorrow morning, I guess. But you know, this is obviously a dangerous disease. 207,000 people have died from it in this country. And the president, as John said, has been absolutely irresponsible in how he's been handling this and the tone he's set. The tone starts at the top. And if you don't take it seriously, you can't expect people who work for you to take it seriously either.
LEMON: Well, we hope that everyone who has been in contact with the president and Hope Hicks -- and anon in that circle, we hope that you guys are OK. S.D., best of luck to you. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate that.
DATE: You're welcome.
LEMON: Thank you so much. I get something that you can (inaudible). I need to read something there. There we go. So, as I understand, we have some guidance that we need to read here. Is that correct? OK, great. So this is the current CDC guidance. And again, listen, this is all happening, as we were speaking. I don't have the CDC guidance in front of me, but I'll read it off the screen. Let me get it off the phone hang on one second. Just so I can see it here.
This is the CDC guidance that we have gotten here. It says people who have been in close contact with someone who has COVID-19, excluding people who have had COVID-19 within the past three months -- these are the people who are supposed to stay at home if they have been exposed.
People who have tested positive for COVID-19 do not need to quarantine or get tested again for up to three months as long as they do not develop symptoms again. People who develop symptoms again within three months of their first bout of COVID-19 may need to be tested again if there is no other cause identified for their symptoms.
Again, this is who needs to quarantine and when to quarantine. What counts as a close contact? You were within six feet of someone who has COVID-19 for a total of 15 minutes or more. If you look at the video and still images of the president's aides who are getting on to marine one, the president getting on as well, they were well within six feet of each other, not wearing masks, not social distancing. And so there you have it.
Now the president of the United States, his close aide, Hope Hicks, has tested positive for the coronavirus and is now at home, we're told, and she is feeling the symptoms of the virus, a confidant of the president testing positive, the president now and the first lady now self-quarantining. We'll be right back.
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[23:20:00]
LEMON: So here's our breaking news tonight. The president in quarantine and awaiting his COVID test result after a close aide, Hope Hicks, tests positive for the virus. Per current CDC guidelines the president should continue to quarantine for 14 days after his last known exposure to someone who has tested positive for COVID-19.
In this case, that's Hope Hicks. And if his test results I should say come back negative, now. So, that's because the incubation period for the novel coronavirus could be up to 14 days. I want to bring in now former Baltimore city health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen. Dr. Wen, thank you very much.
Thanks for coming on, rolling with us on the breaking news. I'm getting a lot of it as a -- just as we're in the moment here, so bear with me. Listen, talk to me about these rapid tests, OK? Just 15 minutes. So the president, I mean he must at least, you would think, have a preliminary result, no?
LEANA WEN, FORMER HEALTH COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE: And probably had a preliminary result yesterday as well. And it's curious that we have not heard about this yet. Look, I think transparency here is so important for a whole number of reasons.
There's the political reason, continuity of government reasons, but there's also the reason about contact tracing, because it is so critical -- the period that's the most crucial for contact tracing is really as soon as possible.
When you have someone who tests positive, when you have someone who has symptoms, who has coronavirus, you need to identify all those individuals that they were in close contact with and inform them so that they can quarantine, especially if they themselves may be going home to love ones who are vulnerable and have chronic illness themselves. And so we are missing that period here if we don't get that quarantining and get that contact tracing done.
LEMON: So, as I said, listen and I want to be clear about this, because I'm not sure that I was all too clear in my introduction to you. If he tests positive, will he have to be tested periodically because it can take a number of days sometimes for an infection to show up?
WEN: That's correct. So, the incubation period as you mentioned is up to 14 days. The time period is between two to 14 days average of five to seven days. And so, if the president's exposure, let's say was, yesterday, chances are he's not going to have a positive test today. If it was even five days ago, and he test tests negative now, he still may end up testing positive tomorrow.
And so this is why that quarantine period is so important. This is why even if people have several negative tests they should still be quarantining for 14 days and that means the president absolutely should not be going to rallies or events and all those other White House aides who had contact with Hope Hicks should be tested as well and should stay quarantined for 14 days.
[23:25:20] Then I think there's the other question too of where did Hope Hicks
pick up the virus from? Do we know? Are we able to trace her contacts enough to figure this out? Is this from somebody else at the White House or was it somebody at the office she worked with. And so we also have to work backwards and trace if there was somebody that she worked with, then the exposure period and the number of people exposed would significantly widen as well.
LEMON: So, I mentioned that (inaudible) and you saw the video. Can we put the video up, if we have it, of them getting on to marine one? And you look at the size of the -- there they are, again, not six feet apart. They are not wearing masks. And the president got on moments before them. But the video of the president shows the president -- it just shows just how small marine one is, and then they got on to Air Force One. Does the fact that they were on an airplane mean a higher risk of transmission, Dr. Wen?
WEN: Well, I don't know what other settings they are together in, because close contact, as you mentioned, as defined by the CDC, is within six feet for at least 15 minutes, and an airplane is an enclosed space, but it tends to have good circulation and good ventilation. But there could be other spaces that they were in together, including the White House and different rooms. They could be eating together. They could be speaking loudly to one another for hours or for days.
And so there are these prolonged periods of exposure that we need to be concerned about. And I think all of this is a reminder that the White House always talks about widespread testing. They brag about how they do daily testing. And I do think daily testing is important. I wish that the entire country would have widespread testing, but widespread testing only focuses on detection. It does not prevent the virus from spreading.
And so you still need masks and social distancing. You can do testing, but as we saw in this case, if someone ends up testing positive, there is a period of time in which they could potentially be infectious between different tests. Or somebody could be testing negative and they test positive later. And so, that's why those precautions like mask wearing physical distancing is still very important.
LEMON: Dr. Wen, I want you to stand by, we are going to need you to help us get through this breaking news. So, stand by please. The president of the United States -- this is our breaking news -- in quarantine tonight while awaiting COVID test results after top aide Hope Hicks testifies positive for the coronavirus.
I want to bring in now Anthony Scaramucci, the former Trump White House communication's director. Anthony, thank you so much. Listen, it's awful that this happened, but as I said earlier, this administration, this president and this administration has really been playing Russian roulette with this virus, basically daring the virus to come get them.
ANTONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: Well, listen, it's a disaster, Don. I'm sorry about the whole thing. I'm certainly sorry for Hope and I certainly hope the president and the first lady do not have the virus. And I don't want to overly insinuate, but it is quite possible that the president has it and the quarantine is a strategy to hide his symptoms of the virus.
And so, I'm just hoping all of that information, which the American people deserve to have, will come out over the next couple of days. And of course, you've got the debate issue ahead of us. We have the challenge to the democracy, what's going on in Texas right now, and some of the voter suppression that CNN is reporting around the country.
And so this is a terrible news event. I wish the president and the first lady great health, and I certainly wish my friend Hope Hicks a quick recovery. We're in a fight for the democracy. We have to focus on that as well.
LEMON: Something that you just said, I think is very important. I mean, do you really think that this administration, that this president, would keep a positive COVID test result from the American people and then go into quarantine for 14 days so that people don't know that he was positive for the coronavirus?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, I do think that, actually. And so and I can give you evidence of that. If you go back to the Walter Reed Hospital visit, we're doing a partial physical nine months prior to the physical -- this sort of nonsense goes on in this White House all the time. I'm in John Hardwood's camp, because I watched the manifestation of lies and the contortion of the truth. The president's got the test results. And so, I would surmise those test results for negative.
He's waiting for an additional test result to double check it so that he can be sure it's negative. But what if it's positive? And he's starting a quarantine process. He's never started a quarantine process for anybody else. And so I'm speculating.
[23:30:00]
SCARAMUCCI: I'm not saying that's factual, but if you look at the fact pattern, you don't have to be Detective Columbo to thin that that's on the Venn diagram of possibilities, Don.
LEMON: So, do we have a diagram of the West Wing? I am sure we can find one somewhere. Yes, let's look at one. OK. So, thank you. So for people who haven't been in the West Wing, OK, Anthony, you have been there, talk to me about the workspaces there. It is very close quarters, isn't it?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, no, listen, the West Wing, particularly the first floor, is very tight. The Oval Office, for most Americans who haven't been in the Oval Office, it's magisterial, but it is small. It is a lot bigger on television than it is in real life.
I don't know where Hope is sitting these days, but when I was there, she was right outside the Oval. She is obviously very close to the president. She is a terrific person, by the way, and so my heart goes out to her and her family. I understand she's not feeling well and she does have symptoms, but I hope that improves very, very quickly. I hope she's one of the people where the outcome here is a really positive outcome.
But if you're making the point that there are close quarters and we know that this is transmitted through the aerosol mist that people is breathing and if the president set up a culture where no one is wearing a mask, the infection rate is highly more likely than when people are wearing masks.
LEMON: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: So, you know, it's malpractice on the president's part. He knows it. Down deep, there is a kernel of humanity in the president's personality. He has to be feeling bad about the fact that Hope has gotten this thing, because he had epidemiologists around him, he had experts from all over the world tell him what to do in terms of handling the virus.
But he put his self-interest first, and he said, OK, you know what? I am going to politicize mask wearing. I am going to force my team inside the White House not to wear a mask so we can delegitimize the science behind this thing.
And unfortunately, we have had unspeakable tragedies. We have Herman Cain. We have the situation now. God only knows how many situations we have had like this as he's attending these indoor and outdoor rallies, you know, spreading this disease with people that are not wearing masks.
LEMON: Yes. Listen. As you mentioned, Hope Hicks, I've only met Hope Hicks once and it was the night of the inauguration. You know how the president speaks about CNN and how the administration feels. It could not have been nicer.
So when the president said that -- when he said on Fox News that, you know, she's out there and she's shaking hands with people and she's -- that is her personality. I don't know her at all. As I said, I've only met here once. So I don't doubt that. I think you're right. It's awful that she has contracted this.
But this president, Anthony, set the example from the top. If you heard S.V. Date, who is in the press pool at the White House, he says that it is -- you're shamed in some sense if you wear a mask in the West Wing or at the White House. They would prefer you not to, according to him.
SCARAMUCCI: Just think of bullies at the lunch table, you know. They want you to do things a certain way, even if their way isn't in coordination with the right way. And so --
LEMON: I think a better way is that it is frowned upon, I should say. But go on. Sorry.
SCARAMUCCI: Come on, if it's frowned upon, he's the president of the United States, guess what, you're not wearing mask because it makes you look weak. It's sort of this machismo and this sort of ridiculousness and it is coming home to haunt everybody now. And so, you know, because think about the countless lives that have been lost.
If the president had gotten out there early, he had done what Tom Bossert had asked him to do or Dr. Anthony Fauci to do and we had masked up the entire country, had a 50-state coordination plan and explained to people the danger of the virus and offered them safety and confidence that we were going to handle the problem by telling people the truth about the crisis, we'd probably had tens of thousands of people still on the earth today that died as a result of this.
And so -- so this is emblematic. I certainly hope that the family is safe. I certainly don't want anything to happen to the president from a health perspective. But I think his leadership style -- this is emblematic of his leadership style. And I hope the Biden campaign points this out and say, OK, listen, enough is enough, let's stop politicizing the masks.
Maybe the president will have an apparitional moment here and will say, you know what, I was wrong about all this, please put a mask on everywhere, including here in the West Wing.
LEMON: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: But we have to see. You have to see what that quarantine is about, Don.
LEMON: But masks --
SCARAMUCCI: I'll be very interested to see --
LEMON: Go on. You'll be very interested to see what?
SCARAMUCCI: I'll be very interested what the quarantine is about.
LEMON: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Masks and also testing, and now the president has to answer for both now because he is possibly in a situation where he has coronavirus.
[23:35:02]
LEMON: He is in a situation where he possibly has coronavirus. All of those questions are going to come back to him. He's going to have to face them about how he reacted to and what he told the American people about wearing masks and what he pointed out about testing.
Listen, he can get a rapid test. The first lady can get a rapid test. But they're not available to everyone. And so therein lies hypocrisy in all of this, what the president has been telling us for the last eight months.
Thank you, Anthony. I'll see you soon. I appreciate it.
SCARAMUCCI: Thank you, Don. I hope he is OK. LEMON: Yes, absolutely.
Much more to come on the breaking news, the president of the United States is in quarantine tonight, awaiting the results of his COVID test after top aide Hope Hicks test positive for coronavirus.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So here is our breaking news.
[23:39:59]
LEMON: The president of the United States, the first lady of the United States in quarantine tonight after top Trump aide Hope Hicks test positive for COVID-19.
Right to CNN's Kaitlan Collins, our White House correspondent with more. Kaitlan, what do you know?
COLLINS: Well, we're seeing the repercussions this is having not just on the White House but even the Biden campaign because we are now told that there is a reporter from Voice of America, their White House correspondent, who was supposed to travel with the Biden campaign tomorrow, he is in Wilmington tonight.
They were tested as apparently is the protocol for the Biden reporters who are travelling with the former vice president, and the Biden campaign has asked him not to travel with them tomorrow after learning that he was the pool reporter on Air Force One to the trip to the Minnesota yesterday which, of course, is the trip that Hope Hicks was on.
So, that reporter has been asked not to travel with the former vice president despite testing negative today out of precaution that they are taking because he was a reporter who was on Air Force One for that trip.
We should remind our viewers that the reporters who travelled on Air Force One yesterday, they are tested beforehand. You get on the plane, the reporters do keep their masks on because you just never know, and that is the precaution that we at the correspondents' association have decided to take.
But the reporters were not told by the White House that Hope Hicks had tested positive. Instead, that made its way, of course, to the public from the media reporting it in and of itself, not from any White House announcement, letting people know that they have been on an airplane as big as Air Force One is with someone who had subsequently tested positive for coronavirus.
LEMON: So Kaitlan, I want you to help me out with this because this other information that you have been reporting here, this is your reporting, Vice President Mike Pence was not in close contact with Hope Hicks. A top aide to the VP claims -- citing now he has been on the road mostly this week. However, as Betsy Klein noted, Pence is on camera, saying that he was in the Oval Office with the president on Tuesday.
OK, so, here's the thing. Everyone is thinking that patient zero here would be Hope Hicks. But we don't know that. We don't know if the -- you know, who Hope Hicks got it from, and it could be someone in the Oval Office, it could be someone in the administration, it could be one of -- who knows where she got it from?
But it doesn't necessarily mean that the president would get it from Hope Hicks. He could have been in contact with the person who gave it to her. We just don't know at this point.
COLLINS: Yes, that is the problem, is that there are so many unknowns with this. We're told that they did contact tracing. They told the people that they believe had sustained contact what Hicks, that they should quarantine or what measures they believe they should take.
But that's still a question of what exactly this is going to look like because the chief person that we know did come into contact with Hicks is the president. And he says he is quarantining while he was waiting on his test result.
But the question is going to be what does he do if he gets that result and it's negative? Does he continue on with this schedule that is pretty packed for tomorrow where he's got a roundtable and a rally in Florida?
So, as you noted, the question ultimately still is, just because Hope Hicks is taken out of the picture and she's quarantining now that she is tested positive, what does that mean for the other senior aides that travel with the president?
Because as she was getting on Marine One yesterday, that very small helicopter, Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who is obviously married to his daughter Ivanka and a senior adviser to have him, was also there around Hicks, and Hicks works directly with Jared Kushner.
So it not only raises questions about Hope Hicks and her contact, but Jared Kushner, Dan Scovino, Stephen Miller, every other person who was on Air Force One yesterday travelling with the president and even the ones who went with him today to this fundraiser because, once again, they are in close contact with the president.
So, this has just set off a slew of headaches for the White House that they are going to have to deal with when it comes to this. And of course, the most pressing question is what the president's test result is going to be, and here it is, 11:45 at night, and Don, we still do not know.
LEMON: No idea.
COLLINS: Even though the story was first broken around 8:00 p.m. on the East Coast.
LEMON: And the president is speaking about it hours ago on his favorite channel, over on Fox News. Kaitlan, get back to reporting. Thank you very much. Our Kaitlan Collins is joining us with the breaking news. We'll get back to Kaitlan throughout the evening here on CNN.
I want to bring in now Miles Taylor, the former chief of staff at the Department of Homeland Security in the Trump administration, and Jonathan Wackrow, a former Secret Service agent. Gentlemen, good evening. Here we go again, another night of big breaking news.
Miles, this is a huge development. The president is at serious risk of having this virus.
MILES TAYLOR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AT DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, Don, I would say this. You want to hope for the best. Look, people can love or hate Donald Trump politically. We've got to hope that the president of the United States does not have this deadly virus --
LEMON: Right.
TAYLOR: -- that's killed 200,000 people. But in a position like I was in at the Department of Homeland Security, you got to plan for the worst.
[23:44:56]
TAYLOR: And so as I'm sure my counterpart here on your segment will affirm, right now, the Secret Service is taking extraordinary precautions to make sure that the president is protected.
But also right now, there should be things taking place throughout the administration just in case the president of the United States ends up being sick with this virus. The cabinet needs to be aware. Processes need to be put in place in the absolute worst case scenario.
The vice president of the United States has to be prepared to step in and fulfil some of the duties of the president if for some reason the president is for a temporary period incapacitated.
Again, that's purely speculative. We don't know if the president has the virus yet, and we don't know what the impact would be on him. But at this point in time, the cabinet, the administration has to take those extraordinary precautions.
Again, this is the commander-in-chief of the most powerful country in the world, the man with the finger on the nuclear button, and again a virus that killed 200,000 Americans. They have to take this extraordinarily seriously. Right now, this is a national security threat.
LEMON: Jonathan, go ahead, because Miles said, you know, you got to take precautions. There's protocol for this. What is the role of the Secret Service now at this point?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Listen. Before I get to that, there are two things I want to say. One, this is a pure example that this virus does not discriminate. And two, actions have consequence. Right now, there are a lot of people that are dealing with the consequence of not wearing masks and really inadequate health security measures that are around the president at the time.
And if you think about exposure, what is exposure based upon? It is based upon time and distance. How much time you spent with somebody who is potentially shedding the virus and how close you are with them. In the world of the White House, in moving the White House staff and Secret Service and Military to these various events, what you have are multiple points of exposure along the entire journey.
I have been on Air Force One. I have been on the president's helicopter. I have been in the West Wing. As large as some of those spaces are, you come in direct contact with the president. There are small areas where people are gathering, they're huddling, and they're strategizing. That is where exposure is going to be the greatest.
So right now for the Secret Service, first and foremost, they have to be focused on their mission, but their mission is now potentially compromised because those agents that have been around the president, whether it was at the debate or today or any other time where they could potentially have been exposed, they have to now self-quarantine, they have to be tested.
So there's a ripple effect that's going out beyond the West Wing. It's going to the Secret Service. It's going to the Military and their families. So as I said at the beginning here, actions have consequences, and now we're living with those consequences.
LEMON: So listen, Jonathan, this is a virus. S.V. Date was just on a while ago with me. He said that the Secret Service, they aren't wearing masks on Air Force One. They weren't wearing them yesterday. Would that be their decision or is it whatever the preference of the president is?
WACKROW: Listen, the Secret Service is apolitical. They're independent. They don't serve to please the president. So if the president is demanding that they wear masks -- I have seen shift members wearing masks, I have seen uniformed division officers -- that is an individual choice. It's a risk based analysis that they make. These guys are the risk experts.
So in terms of policy, health security comes first. They should be wearing masks. I hope that they are. But again, they have to look at it. It's going to be situation-dependent when they choose to wear or not to choose to wear mask.
LEMON: So if they're in an environment -- I know the Secret Service, they're used to protecting the president from physical threats. But I am wondering -- I mean, they can't physically protect him from this unless they're wearing masks or they're keeping people away from him who aren't wearing masks.
So if they're in a situation like this and it is frowned upon by the leader to wear a mask, what are they going to do? Does that affect the members of the Secret Service? Are they possibly intimidated in some way or that they may be influenced in some way by the president of the United States as to wearing a mask or not?
WACKROW: Listen. What this points to, Don, is actually a bigger issue. It's what health security policy that's been set from the very beginning around the president. The Secret Service is a part of it --
LEMON: Right.
WACKROW: But they're not the driver of this. They deal with access control. They deal with the control of the bubble around the president in concentric rings. What should have been happening from the very beginning is we should have had mask policies, testing policies that were very stringent, that were adhered to.
[23:49:56]
WACKROW: The Secret Service, the Military, the White House medial unit, everybody working in close coordination with each other to ensure that we don't get to this point.
I mean, this is a real seminal moment in our -- the way that our country is actually dealing with this pandemic. And the consequence of whether or not the president has or does not have this virus is going to affect potentially the election and things moving forward.
LEMON: I want to ask if, you know, this scare, what it is right now, because we don't know what the result is, if that's going the change anything with the president and with the president's supporters. But listen, you're not the political guys here, so I'll say that for the political pundits.
Miles, I will ask you this. All of this is coming as the Trump administration officials are telling CNN that in the early days of this pandemic, the White House shelved masks for the National Security Council after they were ordered for its staff. So the NSC knew how big of a threat the virus was, but was stifled because the White House was more worried about its image. Was the virus getting this close to the president inevitability here?
TAYLOR: The answer is yes, yes, and yes. So, I was texting this evening with former colleagues that work in the West Wing, that work in the Eisenhower Executive Office building next to the West Wing of the White House where the Oval Office is. And people have said they felt like there has been a culture at the White House against masks and these personal protective measures, and they feel like it's political.
Some of these people are civil servants. Some of them are appointees of the president. And they feel like, again, because the president has been demeaning towards the idea of masks and has politicized it, they feel pressure not to wear them.
So, here we are, at the seat of the government in the United States of America and the commander-in-chief who is responsible for protecting Americans during this crisis to keep them from dying and to promote these very simple measures, wear masks, wash your hands, socially distance, he is not leading by example. And as a result, he is putting his own staff risk.
But the answer to your initial question is, yes, his message to America was delayed in terms of those personal protective measures because the president denied it. He was worried about the political repercussions about telling Americans to take these measures.
And we have heard that from people who are still inside the administration who have talked to me and others who have since left like Olivia Troye, who has now spoken out very publicly, who was a member of the COVID-19 Task Force, who has said she personally believes the president's reluctance to respond to this crisis for political reasons has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of Americans.
That is because the president so closely associated this crisis with his re-election and did not want to acknowledge it.
LEMON: And with the economy.
TAYLOR: And look, the reality now, Don --
LEMON: Yes.
TAYLOR: And with the economy. It's now coming home. It's striking so close to home. It's hitting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Don.
LEMON: Listen, we certainly hope that everyone is OK here. Even if we don't agree with this president politically or his behavior or what have you, we certainly hope -- we don't want anyone in this country, in this world to get the coronavirus.
But the thing is, you said, Miles, that he was putting his staff at risk. He is not only putting his staff at risk. He is putting his family at risk. The first lady is now having to quarantine with him. His son, Barron, is also at the White House. His daughter works at the White House. His son-in-law Jared Kushner was on the airplane and on Marine One, as well. They have to go home to their families and children.
All of those people who work at the White House have to go home to families. And if the president is discouraging mask wearing and social distancing and all the precautions that would keep people from the likelihood, I should say, of people from getting the coronavirus, then he is putting more people at risk than just his staff. It has a ripple effect.
Thank you both, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Much, much more to come on our breaking news, the president of the United States is in quarantine tonight waiting for COVID test results after his closest White House aide, Hope Hicks, tests positive for the virus.
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[23:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: So we are back now with our breaking news here on CNN. Hope Hicks has travelled with the president multiple times recently, including to a debate in Cleveland. This was on Tuesday. She was seen boarding Marine One along with several others, president's closest aides, Jared Kushner, Dan Scavino, Nicholas Luna, all getting on. None of whom were wearing masks.
And now we hear that Hope Hicks has now tested positive for the coronavirus. We are told, and the reporting is from Bloomberg and now CNN has confirmed, that she tested positive. They believe that they knew as early as yesterday. There they are now getting on to Marine One and Trump was heading to his campaign rally in Minnesota. OK. So that's getting on.
And then, here we have Hope Hicks getting off of Marine One with the president of the United States. The president is getting off first and saluting members of the Military there. So that is at Joint Base Andrews.
