Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Tests Positive for Coronavirus. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired October 02, 2020 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:35]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to all of our viewers here in the United States and all around the world, I'm Robyn Curnow. I want to give you this breaking news that has just coming out of Washington.
The U.S. president Donald Trump has tweeted that he has tested positive for COVID. I am going to read it. "Tonight, FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19," he wrote in just the last few moments. "We will begin our quarantine and recovery process. Immediately we will get through this together." Together written in capital letters.
This of course comes after Hope Hicks, the president's closest aide, tested positive in the last 24 hours. We understand that she is showing symptoms and we will continue to monitor her progress but clearly now, all eyes are focused on the U.S. president Donald Trump who's tested positive for COVID.
I want to go straight to our doctor, Dr. Anne Rimoin.
Talk us through this news and the impact this will have particularly on a man of his age, his weight. What kind of risk is he at now?
ANNE RIMOIN, PROFESSOR, DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, UCLA Well, Robyn, this is -- this is a stunning announcement tonight and we're all very concerned about having anyone test positive for COVID, but in particular the president of the United States and the first lady of the United States. This just shows how important testing, tracing and quarantining and isolating is here.
The president does fall into a high risk category. He's older, he is somewhat overweight. I don't know about any other preexisting conditions that he may or may not have. But the important thing is that he is in an age group that does have and risk for severe COVID. So this is very concerning.
CURNOW: And, Doctor, we're showing pictures of the key White House team going into Marine One. Then into Air Force One. The president there either following them or leading them. But in the last 48 hours, the last few days, they have all shared a lot of intimate space ever since that debate and rallies and conversations and meetings and fundraises during that time. How -- when you look at those pictures as a doctor, how concerned are
you that they were exposing themselves? That this was playing Russian roulette in many ways with the virus. None of them are wearing masks and none of them are social distancing.
RIMOIN: This is very concerning. And this has been the issue all along. All of the public health experts including those people close to Donald Trump, all on the White House Task Force, the CDC, Dr. Fauci, have all said how important it is to wear a mask. How important social distancing is. And how critical it is to be able to stop the spread of the virus. And unfortunately, the Trump team has not done a good job of doing this or setting an example. And therefore the number of people that could potentially be exposed and at-risk of contracting this virus is significant here.
CURNOW: And what are the next steps now? I mean, as a doctor, and also I suppose with CDC guidelines, quarantine for how long now?
RIMOIN: CDC guidelines suggest that anybody who has been exposed to a case of COVID should quarantine for 14 days. And it's really important to understand. Quarantining for 14 days because you can be infected on average any time between 48 hours post exposure, up to 14 days. And so therefore quarantining for 14 days is critical.
What has to happen now is that anybody that the president, the first lady, Hope Hicks, anybody else that has tested positive, anybody that's been in contact with them within six feet for more than 15 minutes must quarantine.
CURNOW: OK.
RIMOIN: That is what CDC suggests.
CURNOW: Dr. Anne Rimoin, thank you very much for joining us with this breaking news. I want to go to my colleague now, Don Lemon who has been following this in the last few hours.
Don Lemon, hi. Good to see you and you can take over from now.
[01:05:03]
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Robyn, thank you.
CURNOW: Stunning news.
LEMON: Yes, it is stunning news. Robyn Curnow, thank you very much. We appreciate your coverage.
CURNOW: Pleasure.
LEMON: And you're absolutely right. It is stunning news. The president of the United States now confirming to the world that he and the first lady of the United States have both tested positive for the coronavirus and they will quarantine.
The president tweeting out just moments ago here in the United States, 12:54 a.m., said, "Tonight, FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this together."
Again, the president of the United States confirming via Twitter that he is now tested positive for COVID-19 and the first lady as well.
We have been on the air this evening here on CNN since about 9:45, reporting about the president. The president confirming the news that was first reported by Bloomberg -- by Bloomberg Network that the president of the United States have come in contact with Hope Hicks. Hope Hicks who is his top -- one of his top aides, closest aide testing positive for coronavirus.
After she tested positive, the president and the first lady got their tests and they're awaiting it. The president gave an interview to FOX News tonight explaining that to FOX News viewers that he was awaiting test results, he and the first lady, and that they would quarantine.
I want to bring in now Samantha Vinograd who is our national security correspondent and also Brian Stelter joins us as well.
So, Sam, listen, the news we're getting now from the president, you have said that this was a -- how did you put it, a red alert for the administration when it comes to what could happen and now I think our worst fears, and I am sure the president's and the first lady's, have been realized.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Don, I said hours ago that this was a code red moment for the U.S. government before we even had these diagnoses from FLOTUS and POTUS. At this point, knowing that the president is sick and that the pandemic is affecting personnel in the White House, this may be the most dangerous moment that the U.S. government has ever faced.
The president is suffering from a deadly virus. This feels like something we should be watching on an episode of "Homeland." The president of the United States is suffering from a deadly virus. He has to quarantine. He is not able to fully perform his duties as commander-in-chief. Based upon the number of personnel that he comes into contact with every single day without wearing a mask, it is logical that others senior personnel within the national security apparatus could be infected by this virus.
At minimum, they will also be unable to fully perform their duties. The U.S. government is incredibly vulnerable at this moment. We do not have a full team on deck. And that means that there are major gaps in our national security coverage based upon these diagnoses.
LEMON: So what are the risks here? What happens? Because as what has been reported tonight is that, I'm trying to get the information here because in full transparency, we have just gotten off the air when this news came across Twitter, by the way, that the president and the first lady had tested positive for coronavirus.
This is what I am learning, Sam, that the vice president was not in close contact with Hicks. But he was in the Oval Office on Tuesday, meaning that he is -- he was now in close contact with the president of the United States who is now positive for coronavirus.
The president is going to have to quarantine. I would assume that there -- some of the work would have to be handed to the vice president of the United States but if the vice president of the United States has to quarantine as well then that would probably go to the speaker of the House. Who knows what happens at this moment? Can you walk us through this? Is there a precedent for this?
VINOGRAD: Well, sure. The immediate task is twofold. Number one, Don, the president of the United States may be super spreader number one at this juncture. Based upon the number of people that he comes into contact with before we even get to continuity or simultaneous to that, personnel have to track who he came into contact with to try to stop the outbreak within the top tiers of the U.S. government.
Simultaneous to that, there is, as you mentioned, a continuity plan that is in place. Every administration puts together one of those continuity plans. The scenario planning such that if infection does cripple the top tier of the U.S. government, there is a continuity plan in place.
But, Don, I don't have great faith that this administration has done any scenario planning. At this point it is unclear to me that the president and his team have done just the basic homework to try to figure out what to do if the president of the United States is unable to fully perform his duties.
[01:10:08]
This is an unprecedented situation based upon the infection and based upon the White House's lack of preparedness in the situation.
LEMON: I need -- I need both of you to stand by, Sam and Brian. I want to bring in our White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins.
Kaitlan, the breaking news tonight is that the president of the United States and the first lady have both tested positive for the coronavirus. The president releasing the information via Twitter just moments ago, saying, "Tonight, FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID- 19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this together."
Kaitlan, are you getting anything from the White House? From the administration? What are you hearing?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are, Don. This is a nightmare scenario for the West Wing. Thirty-two days before Donald Trump is up for reelection, he and the first lady have now tested positive for coronavirus. And we just got a memo from the president's physician that the White House just released. I haven't even read it yet so I'm just going to read it to you as I am going through it for the first time.
It's from the White House's doctor, Dr. Sean Conley. You remember him. We've heard from him before as he's gone over the president's health. And he says, "I released the following information with the permission of President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump." He says, "This evening, I received confirmation that both President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump have tested positive for coronavirus."
He says, "They are both well at this time and they plan to remain at home within the White House during their convalescence." He does not specify a time there, Don. He says, "The White House medical team and I will maintain a vigilant watch. And I appreciate the support provided by some of the country's greatest medical professionals." He says, "Rest assured I expect the president to continue carrying out his duties without disruptions while recovering and I will keep you updated on future developments."
Don, it's that last line that's going to raise some questions on what exactly this means for the president, if he's going to be in quarantine in the residence for the next two weeks, which is what the par for the course is? How does that affect how he's doing his job? Because Dr. Sean Conley says he's going to continue performing the duties of the office. I assume that means there's not going to be any kind of transfer of power situation going on.
But the day-to-day in the West Wing is not going to be realistic given that the president is positive for this highly contagious disease. So there are going to be so many questions raised and also questions raised, Don, about what the president did today and yesterday and about those people he was around because he attended an indoor fundraiser today and hours later has tested positive for coronavirus.
He was not wearing a mask at that fundraiser and now he has coronavirus. He was around thousands of people at this rally outdoors last night but still in pretty close proximity to these people in this crowded area. This is going to raise so many questions, Don. But I cannot stress enough, this is a nightmare scenario for the White House. And we had a suspicion this was in the making because they have been so quiet about what his diagnosis was and it had taken so long for us to get these results that something seemed to be up.
Because they have that 15-minute test, and of course now we know exactly what it was that was going on.
LEMON: And, Kaitlan -- Kaitlan, listen, I think it's important. I want to read the tweet and I want you to read this -- you said it's Sean Conley. Dr. Sean Conley. I want you to read the entire statement because I think it's important for our viewers here in the United States and around the world who are watching.
First of all, this is how we learned, Kaitlan, of the president and the first lady's positive testing for coronavirus. It says, "Tonight, FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this together." That was the first official word that we got that the president and the first lady had tested positive.
And then, Kaitlan, you got a response sent out to you and the media from the president's doctor. What did that statement say?
COLLINS: Yes, so that's this memorandum from Dr. Conley, and so he says that they're going to be quarantining during their convalescence. It does not say how long the two of them are going to be quarantining but obviously we're going to assume that means the president's trip to Orlando tomorrow is off. But then it does say at the end, rest assured, I expect the president to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering.
Don, it is going to be really interesting to see what the president does because 32 days from today is November 3rd. That is the election. The president had two weeks of campaigning on his schedule. Obviously it is critical because he is down in the polls. So the question of whether or not he's going to go on to be sitting at the White House is something that they are going to have to deal with because this is something that is very unlike how the president has reacted to things in the past.
Of course now that he's tested positive, it completely changes the calculation of everything. And it raises questions about who smart it was for the White House to put all of these measures that medical experts have said to take so you do not have coronavirus spread happening to the wind, not wearing a mask, not social distancing, not taking any of these measures.
[01:15:06]
And we have seen that it has ended up in the worst case scenario for the White House with an aide testing positive and the president and the first lady now also testing positive.
LEMON: But there -- as you said, as you mentioned, there were other people who were in close contact with the president of the United States, and also with Hope Hicks as well.
So, listen, I just want to know if -- what happens -- is Dr. Conley saying -- so the president is going to quarantine for 14 days. Is he going to stay in quarantine? Is he going to -- is he saying that he's going to continue to do the business of the American people while he is in quarantine?
And Kaitlan, we don't know from now what happens with the debates? What happens with the rest of his campaigning until election day?
COLLINS: No. We have no idea what this means. But rest assured this is last thing that the White House wanted to happen. Obviously it was something that they had talked about before, a fear that they had had before when other people close to the president had tested positive. But now their worst fear has been realized. And so of course the politics is a big question here. But also it's just the general health of the president, Don.
He is in an at-risk category. That is something that medical experts have said for some time. Given his weight, given his age, given what his past physicals have said about his blood pressure, the president is not someone who doctors could simply say, well, he doesn't have, you know, these comorbidities that he doesn't have to be worried about it like Hope Hicks, someone who is quite young, of course. The president is someone who does have risk factors. And so that's a
big question about the safety and the health of the president of the United States before we even get to whether or not he's going to be able to go to debates or any of these rallies, or anything at the White House. It's the health of the president. And we should note that right now his doctor says that they are feeling well.
He doesn't say that they're asymptomatic. That's something that we're still going to have to learn over the next few days. But you could kind of hear it in the president's voice in that interview with Sean Hannity tonight, where he did not dismiss this. He just said, well, the first lady and I got tested and we have to quarantine, those are going to raise a lot of questions, Don, about whether or not he took that Rapid test and it was positive, and that's what led them to take one that took us so long to get the results.
Here it is, 1:00 a.m. on the East Coast and we're just now finding out these results. But of course there are going to be so many questions just about the health of the president for the next -- you know, until he recovers and how this experience is for him.
LEMON: Yes. Kaitlan, I want you to stand by there. Kaitlan Collins.
Our Kaitlan Collins there in Washington, D.C., reporting on what has happened here in the United States.
The president of the United States sending out via tweet, "Tonight, FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this together."
That is the president of the United States. And then this is the memorandum that was sent out by the White House press secretary moments later. It says -- it's from a memorandum for Kayleigh McEnany, assistant to the president and the White House press secretary. Excuse me, it is to them. It is from Sean Conley, the president's physician.
And it says, "On behalf of the first lady," the subject first lady -- excuse me, "Donald Trump and the First Lady of the United States. I release the information with the permission of Donald J. Trump and First Lady Melania Trump. This evening I received confirmation that both President Trump and First Melania Trump have tested positive for the SARS COVID-2 virus," which is the coronavirus, COVID-19.
"The president and first lady are both well at this time and they plan to remain at home within the White House during their convalescence. The White House medical team and I will remain a vigilant watch and I appreciate the support provided by some of our country's greatest medical professionals and institutions. Rest assured, I expect the president to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering. And I will keep you updated on any further development."
Here is the interesting thing. The doctor may say that but according to government protocol, I am not sure if the president of the United States can legitimately carry out the business of the presidency while he's in quarantine. All of those things have yet to be determined regardless of what the White House position says and maybe even what the president wants at this moment. There are certain things that -- certainly protocol that have to be followed here.
Our Kaitlan Collins has been following this story from Washington, D.C. I'm not sure, do we have Samantha Vinograd who is with us as well? Samantha Vinograd is our security correspondent who has been briefing us on what happens at this moment.
Do we have Samantha with us, yes or no? So we don't have Samantha. We'll go back to Kaitlan.
[01:20:06]
Kaitlan, so, listen, the president's physician says that the president will continue his duties without disruption while recovering, but we don't know if that's absolutely sure now, if that's absolutely possible. We don't know the president's condition. I would assume, since he gave an interview this evening, that he feels fine. He didn't mention that he felt sick. But who knows what is going to happen and what his condition will be while he is in quarantine and while this virus progresses in his body.
COLLINS: That's the number one question is the president's health. I do not think that any other sitting president in office has faced something this serious in decades. I mean, it's hard to think. You know, you think of heart attacks. You think of other issues. Obviously Ronald Reagan being shot. Things of that nature come to mind when you think of the president having something that is so serious and also so unknown, Don.
There are still a lot of unknowns about coronavirus where we see how it affects some people severely and some people not at all. Sometimes it depends on their age, their comorbidities. But it really is unpredictable at best. And that's why health experts have been so concerned about it and said, you know, it's not just the people who are young that don't have anything to worry about that can go back to work that can do this.
The fear is that they would spread it to other people. People who are older like the president who is in his 70s and do have comorbidities. And so while now they do say the president is feeling well. That is obviously great news. This is going to be a massive threat facing the White House to just see how the president does fair with this. It's not known. We have no idea how this will end up and it is just remarkable that this is a place that we have gotten to especially on a day where the president was at this indoor fundraiser earlier.
He had a prerecorded remarks for the dinner. And in those he said that the end of the pandemic was in sight. He was talking in these hopeful terms that we have heard the president use so often to describe what's facing the country. And now the president himself and the first lady have been diagnosed. And that is a worst case scenario. I cannot stress it enough for everyone. For everyone who works in the White House. People who work in the Pentagon.
Everyone who works throughout this administration. It's a worst case scenario. And so what they do going forward and how this changes the structure of the president and the vice president who met with the president, was in the Oval Office on Tuesday, and other staffers inside the White House who interacted closely with now two people -- three people who have coronavirus, President Trump and Hope Hicks, the first lady to some extent.
She's not in the West Wing as much, but now there are two people in the West Wing who had coronavirus, and were meeting with all of these other senior officials, the upper echelons of government that now is going to be a massive concern.
LEMON: We also have the former vice president of the United States who is now running for president to take Donald Trump's job in contact. Not sure how closely. They were on the same stage together, you know, speaking in vile tones to each other, projecting and we know that's how the droplet spread.
I want to -- let me just get to -- I want you to stand by. We also have Brian Stelter standing by. He's watching the Dow Futures that are plunging right now. We need to do that. But I want to get to our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Doctor, thank you very much for joining us and helping us get through this.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Of course.
LEMON: Here it is at 1:23 in the morning, 1:23 a.m. We are learning that the president of the United States has tested positive. He's 74 years old. He is obese. How great of a risk is it to someone of his age and his -- with his health background?
GUPTA: Well, this is one of the great concerns. And, you know, we're obviously all hoping he and the first lady have -- don't develop much in the way of symptoms. And, you know, statistically still, the statistics are on people's side even at that age. But this is a great concern. He is a vulnerable person because of his age, because of preexisting conditions. And this is the sort of thing that, you know, medical team is going to have to obviously be watching out for, to see if he does develop symptoms, how quickly any symptoms might start to occur and then what to do about it.
So it's tough to put an exact number on it. We do know of course who's going to be more vulnerable and who is not. And I don't know, Don, just sort of read that memorandum from Dr. Conley. It doesn't sound like President Trump has had any symptoms. This is all based on the surveillance testing that came back, is that right?
LEMON: This is all -- I'm not sure of the type of testing that came back but because the memorandum doesn't really say, Sanjay. I'm sure if you guys are -- in the control room, Zach, can you just -- can you e-mail the memorandum to Sanjay so he can look at it. It doesn't say what kind of testing. It just says he tested positive for SARS COVID-2 virus. That's all it said.
[01:25:05]
GUPTA: Well, we know that he's been tested on a, I believe, daily basis. So this is more of sort of surveillance testing. We know that there's been obviously, as Kaitlan has pointed out, people within the West Wing that have tested positive. So, you know, I got to tell you, you know, I'm not surprised, Don, at this. It's obviously unsettling but I'm not surprised given the contagiousness of this virus and what had been the lax protocols.
You know, surprisingly, stunningly, shockingly lax protocols within the West Wing, a small confined space, and people who are infected not wearing masks, even if they are being tested on a daily or regular basis. Testing doesn't prevent one from getting the virus. That's just let you know after you will develop it, you know, been infected with it.
So it's tough news to hear but obviously again, as I mentioned, he is considered a vulnerable patient by virtue of age and preexisting illness. And this is something that doctors I'm sure in the West Wing are going to be watching out for.
Now, you know, even before the president was diagnosed, when Hope Hicks was diagnosed, at that point given her proximity to the president, protocol would argue from the Centers for Disease Control that the president would need to be quarantined at that point given his proximity. Now for certain he's going to need to be isolated as I'm sure is in the memorandum as well. He's going to need to recover at home, have symptoms monitored, and if he developed symptoms, he may need to go to the hospital.
LEMON: Let me just take a moment here, Doctor. This is horrible for the president, for the first lady, for Hope Hicks, and for anyone who came in contact with them and are possibly positive for the coronavirus as well.
As we know from our colleagues, some of our colleagues here who have tested positive, it is not an easy thing. It affects many people in different ways. But it can obviously we know be deadly, 270,000 people have died from coronavirus. So listen, we hope the president gets through this. We hope the first lady gets through this, and Hope Hicks as we well.
But it is also, Sanjay, an awful thing for this country. The leader of the free world has now tested positive for coronavirus.
GUPTA: Yes.
LEMON: And we don't know, maybe now he is feeling well, but we just don't know. There are so many unknowns at the moment.
GUPTA: Yes. There really are. And, you know, I mean, as you're pointing out, Don, people will immediately start looking at all the data, right? And what is the data going to suggest based on the number of people who have contracted this infection, the millions of people here in the United States and around the world. But every individual is, every individual, right, in terms of how are they going to respond to this.
There are many people who are older, who do just fine still, even though they are considered the vulnerable population. So it's tough to speculate in terms of, you know, what the course is, the medical course, the overall course that he's going to have and the first lady is going to have going forward.
But, look, you know, I -- this is unsettling and people are hearing this for the first time. But it is something that you know is not entirely -- was not entirely unexpected. People have kept saying, look, we are sort of through this. People who haven't gotten it by now they're not going to get it. When you talk to people who follow the course of this pandemic we're still very much in the, you know, second or third ending of this.
So it's one of these things where in the earlier days the fact that the president of the United States has now contracted this disease is something that, you know, you do have to think at the back of your mind, we could have prevented things like this from happening. But not surprising, on the other hand, given the contagiousness of this and that there were several people now within the West Wing that the president had regular contact with that had this disease.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, and I know that it says that during the time of their convalescence, but which really -- it's just a recovery, it's just a heavy word that means it while they're to get over this, their treatment and their recuperation from this.
GUPTA: Yes.
LEMON: Should we read anything into their convalescence or is that just a term that -- a medical term that we're looking at?
GUPTA: You know, it's good question, Don. I -- if they had used the term isolation, that they're just going to be isolated, that would have meant to me totally asymptomatic. We are isolating people to basically prevent them from being spreaders of the virus. It could just mean that. That's what they mean. But they did choose the word convalescence so that means more there's recovering and that there are some symptoms. You know, I don't know.
LEMON: Yes.
GUPTA: Like you said it, it's tough to ask. Does that the president have any symptoms? What are those symptoms? What are being done to treat those symptoms? When did he develop those symptoms? That will give some indication.
And again, I want to stress as unsettling as this is, it is still very likely President will recover from this disease statistically, even with his age, even with this preexisting conditions. But obviously, he is considered vulnerable. And there could be no shortcuts down. We've seen a lot of shortcuts with regard to how, you know, the no masks, you know, obviously, people still doing meetings within indoors in a poorly ventilated thing in the West Wing, small quarters whatever it may be. But this, you know, now that you have the infection, there can be no shortcuts, he cannot be a source of spread to other people, obviously, has to be very, very closely monitored, right, for any kind of even early symptoms so the doctors can immediately address things.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I want to bring --
GUPTA: As you know, there's no particular cure.
LEMON: Yeah, Sanjay, please. I know it's like the important story. I hope that you stick with us and stand by.
GUPTA: Yes.
LEMON: I want to bring in Kaitlan Collins, also Brian Stelter, as well. And also Carl Bernstein joins us. Carl, because he's -- someone said, Carl, and I wasn't sure which Carl, it was. So Carl, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us.
Brian, can we just talk about the President is always concerned about the economy, we know. Dow futures, we understand are plunging at the moment, which is very important to the economic health of the world.
Brian Stelter: Yeah, this is traders in other countries, mostly in Asia, making bets about Friday morning in the U.S. Dow futures down more than 400 points Nasdaq, S&P down 1.5 to 2% right now, that's to be expected because investors are making bets about the morning about how uncertain, how much uncertainty this news is creating in the markets.
Look, Don, the worst year in recent memory just keeps getting worse, the leader of the free world is sick. He's probably watching TV right now. And I hope we can all say the same thing. We wish you well, Mr. President, we hope you feel better as soon as possible. The President is now like 43,000 other Americans who all tested positive for the virus, just in the last 24 hours. That's according to Johns Hopkins University, 43,000 Americans with this virus knew today. It's a reminder that this is happening in so many towns, so many cities. And the President, as Sanjay said, has all the advantages here. All the odds are in his favor. This virus is an unequal killer, people of color, lower income, people are much more likely to suffer from this virus.
But right now, Don, transparency and honesty are going to be key for this White House. This White House is in a state of perpetual crisis. We cannot trust what they say. But now more than ever, we have to be able to trust what the President and his aides are telling the American people. Let us hope that honesty prevails in this moment, because everybody is going to be watching now to be confident in the President's health and confident in the people around him.
LEMON: Carl, in large part, it's his own dereliction is partly to blame for this. He chose to go out to rallies. He chose to downplay masks. He chose to not social distance, and call it a hoax and so on and so forth. But, you know, again, it's horrible that the President has this. But he chose to handle this situation this way. People in the West Wing and the administration saying it's frowned upon to wear masks, was this inevitable? CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I wouldn't say it's inevitable. But certainly his recklessness has contributed to this horrible situation, though. I think we need to look at one thing immediately. We are now in the midst of a national security crisis that is different than anyone in our history, in this country. We have to be concerned about adversaries, particular, particularly Russia, taking advantage of this situation for its own purposes. We have to think about possible cyber manipulation of the markets. You've talked about the markets, and obviously this is going to have a huge effect on the markets.
We don't know the future of this election campaign. It depends on the President's health. We don't know what his health is going to be. It's going to totally up hand the end of the election campaign. So every aspect of our national life, in terms of stability, is now affected in ways that we could never have envisioned a day ago. And I think we need to start from that perspective, the political equation, of course, what you're talking about is there as well, because his conduct in the handling of this virus is now even more front and center of the election campaign than it ever has been.
But first, let's look at all the implications. In terms of our national security, I'm sure there are all kinds of alerts that have gone out of military and civilian. Vice President, I'm sure is now under a different regime than he was hours ago. So, as this unfolds, it's going to be new to all of us.
[01:35:21]
LEMON: Do we still have Kaitlan Collins with us? Or did Kaitlan have to go do more reporting? OK. So let me put --
STELTER: Hey, Don, it is notable that Melania Trump did just tweeted, and say, she is feeling good, "we are feeling good." Yes.
LEMON: Yes, that's what I want to read these. She says, "As too many Americans have done this year, @potus & I are quarantining at home ..." as too many Americans have done this year. OK. "As too many Americans have done this year, @potus & I are quarantining at home after testing positive for COVID-19. We are feeling good & I have postponed all upcoming engagements. Please be sure you are staying safe & we will all get through this together." That's from the First Lady of the United States.
Dr. Gupta, I'm sure as too many Americans have done this year, yes, a lot of them. A lot of American, Sanjay, are you still there? OK, we don't have Dr. Gupta. So I'll go to Dr. Reiner now.
So this from the First Lady, "As too many Americans have done this year, @potus & I are quarantining at home after testing positive for COVID-19. We are feeling good & I have postponed all upcoming engagements. Please be sure you are staying safe & we will all get through this together."
That is a message that many Americans, she is right that this is a message that many Americans have been sharing and having to deal with that. We have been sharing here on CNN with many Americans who have -- been having to deal with this situation. And quite frankly, many Americans who have died from this, all of a sudden, this virus is at the highest levels of our government, the President and the First Lady of the United States.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Right, but you know what I would -- what I would say to the American people is, this is not a time to panic, very likely the President and the First Lady will recover from this.
We've learned a lot over the first eight months of this pandemic about how to treat this disease. And there are some things to do, should the President become more ill or incapacitated over the next several days. And hopefully that's not the case.
Also, it's important to know that the President has a spectacular full time medical team with him all the time. Now, the White House Medical Unit is staffed by really incredibly competent, a team of physicians and nurses and physician's assistants. So that's a unique capability.
Finally, the Constitution of the United States has a very well defined mechanism for transferring power even temporarily. The third section of the 25th amendment enables the President to temporarily transfer power to the Vice President should he not feel up to the job.
LEMON: I want to stand by Dr. Reiner, I need to get to Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, I was calling on you moments ago. And there you are, as I understand, wanted to bring you back because you have some new information. What do you have for us?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you have to consider the wide ranging repercussions of this diagnosis for the President. And one of those is obviously going to be senior staffers in the West Wing who were affected by this. We've already noted who is traveling with the President, with Hope Hicks, but also think about what's going on the other end of Capitol Hill where Mark Meadows, the chief of staff has been constantly this week, as has the Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. Two different reasons, Meadows has been up there because their Supreme Court Nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett has been up there meeting with senators all week getting ready for her confirmation hearings.
The Treasury Secretary has been meeting with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other officials to talk about stimulus deal, COVID relief, a government shutdown avoidance, which of course happened last night. Those things have been going on. But these officials who have been in the West Wing and interacting with the President potentially, Hope Hicks have now also been up on Capitol Hill in these closed doors meeting, closed door meetings with a Supreme Court nominee and the House Speaker who of course, is third in line for the presidency.
So these effects could be incredibly wide ranging. And that is going to be something that we have got to watch over the next few days, not just in addition to the President sharing a stage with Joe Biden just two nights ago in Cleveland and also, of course, the questions of what's going to happen to the future of the debates. But also his immediate question of who potentially this virus could have been spread to in Washington, these powerhouses who are charged with running the country.
LEMON: And also Dr. Reiner, what about Joe Biden? Speaking of powerhouses, the President was just on the stage, share the stage with Joe Biden at the debate. What about him? How much of a concern? How concerned should he be, if at all?
[01:40:06]
REINER: Well, I'm sure his team will test him tomorrow. I think that's an easy assumption to make. The podia were pretty well separated. And you know, in a large setting like that, I think the former vice president is probably safe, but I'm sure they'll test him. The -- but what's important to remember going forward, is that the use of masks has been very, very, I would say, inconsistently used among the President's team.
You know, you saw the Presidents team in that hall without masks. We see the President's team all the time without masks. It has to be a constant tool. If they go up to the Hill to meet with people, they have to wear masks. I'm hoping that when they met with the speaker and other people, other senators, that they wear masks, when they meet with them.
Masking is part of -- should be part of the daily commerce in this country. It's a unique tool. It's an important tool. It has to continue. It has to be emphasized. We'll get through this. My suggestion is, many people will test negative. There'll be a lot of nervousness over the next several days, likely the President will do OK. And then we'll move on from this very, very scary, you know, scary moment.
But look, what the West Wing is experiencing now is what the country has experienced for the last eight months. This virus is very real. We are not turning the corner. We are still very much in the middle of this virus. Which is why until we have a vaccine, we need to redouble our efforts to social distance and wear masks. We'll come together as a country. We all support the president now. And we'll pray for his recovery. But we need to double down, take care of each other, get through the winter. And then we'll start vaccinating the country and then we'll move on. I'm confident about that.
LEMON: Carl, I want to ask you, what you think this does to the election, and what this does to the country and quite frankly, what this will mean for the President and his supporters. The President has downplayed the virus. He's admitted it on tape to your colleague and friend Bob Woodward, saying that he chose to downplay it. I wanted to downplay it. I didn't want to panic people. What does this mean now, take us, walk us through the landscape of the possibilities here, even though we don't know for sure. What are you saying?
BERNSTEIN: Oh, it's inevitable that this now becomes the President's handling of COVID now becomes the central issue in the campaign and his denial of COVID really, as a danger to the people of this country that couldn't be handled in a kind of cavalier way, which is what he did. And what he said the Bob Woodward that recklessness I used the word earlier, pervades what he is done. And now we see how apparently, that recklessness, sadly, is that we now have the President of the United States, the First Lady, others in the presidential entourage, possibly also being positive for COVID.
So really, the basic fact of our national life right now is an unknown quantity in our politics, in our markets, in our business, how we're going to -- there's now a dividing line really, in how we approach COVID. Are we finally now going to let the science prevail? Is the President going to say it's time for the scientist to be listened to including by myself that we have a stark landscape in front of us.
And also, let's take a look also, the effectiveness on the rest of the world because it is going to be noticed. There are movements in Great Britain, in the U.K. right now, say open up, open up, we don't want to be locked down anymore. This is going on in other places, too. It's very hard to imagine that after this, there is not going to be around the world, another look at a Cavalier approach that we must start to do what the scientists have told us, what the epidemiologists have told us.
This is DEFCON one, in terms of the health of the people in the United States, in terms of our political health, in terms of our stability in this country. We now have a defining moment in which this presidency has changed, irrevocable, in which our politics have changed irrevocably, and in which danger as I said to our national security has changed and been ramped up. And I'm sure that responsible people in responsible places, including in this administration, are taking steps to see that everything orderly is being done to proceed now that we have this horrible wake up call.
[01:45:26]
LEMON: And Brian, listen, a big part of the administration, arm of the administration, quite frankly, has been conservative media. And as I understand now, well, what I'm trying to understand is how they are going to portray this now, are they going to continue on with the messaging of the president and carrying the water of the president by downplaying this virus? Or will they now turn to scientists and not, you know, Dr. Atlas, the doctor atlases of the world who continue to promote such things as a herd immunity and so on and so forth? And to downplay masks? Are we going to start hearing more from the Faucis and Birxs of the world rather than the Atlas and the president, the President's wishful thinking about this virus?
STELTER: I think the President's technique often mirrored by his media allies is that every day is a new day, every day is a new show. Forget the day before. There's a new show today. Obviously, this storyline is very serious and very urgent. And it's completely different from yesterday. But we are going to have to look back at the timeline about this, Don, because Hope Hicks was feeling symptoms on Wednesday evening. She was testing positive on Thursday. And yet, the White House did not notify the public until they were leaks from the White House to reporters on Thursday night. That is disturbing. And that's going to need to be revisited. More importantly, the President traveled to Bedminster and held a fundraiser of, you know, 8, 9, 10 hours ago, all the people that fundraiser have reason to be concerned right now. So there are obviously domino effects that are going to need to be explored here.
I interviewed Dr. Fauci earlier this week. And he is honest, as he always is. And unfortunately, his voice is not always taken seriously by the President. He does know what oftentimes see the President in- person. I hope Dr. Fauci's voice has taken more seriously now. His message is very simple, the winter is going to be tough, but we can get through it together as a country and as an entire world population, through masks through social distancing even into 2021. This is not going to be a short term solution. And the President earlier today said that we are -- that we're getting close to the end of this. Now, of course, he may view it very differently.
And let me just say about the debate, Don, that the --
LEMON: And getting close to the end of the pandemic is what he said.
STELTER: Right.
LEMON: Go ahead, Brian, sorry.
STELTER: Right, that is not true. And he may now feel that in a way that he didn't before. I was going to mention about the debate, Don, the next debate is in two weeks, I think we can say right now, there may not be a debate, or there may be a debate by a zoom call, maybe this format remote calls is going to be the safest way to have a debate, because the President's coming off his 14 day quarantine and the Biden campaign may have good reason not to want to put him in the same room as the president. I'm just guessing here because we're two weeks away from that point. But that's just an example of how these dominoes are going to fall for not just days, but for weeks to come.
LEMON: Here's the interesting part, Brian --
BERNSTEIN: If I may --
LEMON: Yeah, go ahead, Carl.
BERNSTEIN: -- expect to this stuff (ph). And that also has to do with Republicans in general, especially in Senate races. But also the Republican Party on Capitol Hill, which is followed this president lockstep in its denial, and his denial of this being a situation of national emergency that needs to be dealt with, with the severity and urgency that was required. This is not going to help Republicans. I think we can safely assume this. And it's so that there to the dynamic between yesterday and today, politically, everything, you know, Brian just used the word dominos. Everything is subject to this domino effect and at the same time ever to use another simulator. Everything is up in the air. We don't know where this is going. Except that it's going to be different.
LEMON: Yeah, I want you guys to stand by. I want to bring in CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who joins us now live. Doctor, I appreciate you joining us. This is a big moment for the country and really for the world. Take us through it. What do you think of it?
GUPTA: Well, you know, it is unsettling for sure, people who are hearing this for the first time. I, you know, was asleep heard this news. And right away it's sort of just it gives you a jolt for sure. You know, we wish obviously the President well, it sounds like reading that memorandum that he's doing well, it still doesn't say clearly whether or not he's had any symptoms or not it says that he's convalescing along with first lady who's also been diagnosed at home.
[01:50:07]
You know, I think that we've known for some time that there is a, obviously a very contagious virus that is circulating. I think a lot of us in the in the medical world have been concerned looking at the West Wing, looking at the White House, about their protocols, small space, small quarters, lots of close contact, no sort of mask mandate in place, even in a mask mandates that had been suggested had sort of been turned down.
People say, well, the President and people around him are being tested on a regular basis, as I think people know by now testing gives you the information after the fact. It's very important, because then you can take people who have been tested positive, you can isolate them. And you can then though, trace their contacts and start quarantining people who've been in close contact with somebody.
And that's going to be a very important policy here, within the West Wing within many quarters now over the last several days, to see who does now need to be quarantined in addition, again, not just in the West Wing, but in other places.
Vice President Biden may have been far enough away on that stage. And I know that they came in from different areas probably did not spend time that close together, but he's going to need to be tested as well, all the campaign staffers.
LEMON: Can I ask you --
GUPTA: So it's going to be critical.
LEMON: Can I ask you about the current vice president, because the current vice president, according to the information that I had, Vice President Mike Pence was not in close contact with Hope Hicks. That's what -- that's when we knew that Hope Hicks was -- tests positive before we knew about the President and the First Lady.
But Pence is on camera saying that he was in the Oval Office with the President on Tuesday. So my question is, the Vice President is possibly exposed at this point? And I'm sure people are wondering if Pence is going to be ready to do a debate with Kamala Harris on Wednesday, if the current vice president has possibly been exposed to COVID. If he met with the President on Tuesday, what's the likelihood that he's exposed here, he's possibly positive? GUPTA: Well, I think you'd have to treat people as potentially exposed at this point. I mean, there are criteria for this sort of thing. How close were they in contact? How long were they in contact? You know, and this is the basic within six feet longer than 15 minutes. But look, you know, we have to be very, very cautious here. And keep in mind that people will say, well, I tested negative the next day after the exposure, therefore, I am good to go. That is not the case. You could have an exposure today, test negative tomorrow, the next day, and so forth, for several days, and then suddenly test positive and it could be due to that exposure several days earlier.
My point is, you have to be very cautious here. And again, people will probably get specific and say, hey, look, the contact wasn't that long. They stood far enough, apart from each other. But who knows? I mean, we're dealing with the leaders of the country here. And I think they have to be very, very careful. So, you know, I'm sure there's lot of considerations going on right now. But if they were to be treated, according to CDC guidelines, according to how other people would be treated, then the President, the First Lady, anyone who is positive, would clearly be isolated.
One could have already made the argument the President would have needed to be quarantined just on the fact that Hope Hicks had tested positive, but now clearly needs to be isolated, which is a term for someone who is positive. And then people who have had that contact, including the current vice president may need to be quarantined, which is the term for people who aren't positive, but are suspicious. And that is -- that would be following health protocols.
But Don, I guess the point you're making, there's not been a lot of the basic public health protocols that have been followed in terms of masking and things like that already. So I'll be very curious to see how they carry this forth. I mean, this is -- they need to take this seriously.
LEMON: Well, that as I said, as I've been saying, there's so many unknowns at this moment. The President's doctor is saying, well, the President is going to carry out his duties without disruption while recovering. Well, we don't know that for sure yet. We'll have to see, you know, how the President feels, if that is indeed part of the protocol of the government? Because, you know, at some point, the vice president is supposed to take over if the president can't carry out his duties in any way or if he's incapacitated. I'm not sure if the President will be incapacitated, it seems to from the doctor's note memorandum that indicates that the President is feeling OK.
But my question is, as you said, there's so many unknowns. My question is the former Vice President, you believe that when they were on that stage just a couple of days ago that they were far enough apart? That the former Vice President Joe Biden should not be concerned, or should he be concerned, should he be tested?
[01:55:01]
GUPTA: He should absolutely be tested. There's no question about it. I mean, I know that they were following these protocols when they were doing this debate, I don't know exactly how far apart they were. And you got to keep in mind, this is not an exact science here, Don, you know --
LEMON: But Sanjay, members of the President's family and his staff sat there in that debate with no masks. I think the First Lady is the only one who wore a mask. I mean, come on.
GUPTA: Yeah, no, look, this is -- these events have been concerning to me from the start. You know, I mean, I think this has always been about let's see what we can get away with, right? I mean, whether it was that debate in terms of actually having people indoors for a period of time like that. There's data now on the fact that this virus, by the way, people are wearing masks so that they don't put virus into the air, right? So when First Lady Melania Trump's wearing a mask in part really, when I think of that, I think that she's doing that to protect the people around her may offer her some protection as well.
LEMON: It's a good thing that she was wearing.
GUPTA: But this is part of the whole debate on masks again.
LEMON: Yeah. It's a good thing that she was wearing.
GUPTA: She was wearing it to help protect people around her.
LEMON: Yeah. Sanjay, I want you to --
GUPTA: Now the President may have already been exposed at that point. We don't know when he was exposed, you know, in that he may just not be testing positive.
LEMON: Standby Sanjay, I want to bring Kaitlan Collins in. Kaitlan, let me ask you this. This is an updated daily guidance and press schedule for Friday, October 2, 2020. This is from the White House. It is indicating here that at 10 a.m., the President is still going to have in-house pool call time. And at 12:15 p.m. the President hosts a call on COVID-19 support to vulnerable seniors. Now, he was supposed to go to Florida. He was supposed to do different events that is not on this new schedule. It says close press after the 12:15 event. But it seems like he's still going to try to get some work in tomorrow.
COLLINS: Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see if they continue to put things like that on the President's schedule moving forward. Notice it says, it's closed press, there is a bit of irony that it is a call on COVID-19 support for vulnerable seniors. And that is the only thing that is going to remain on the President's schedule. And that reminds me of what's at the end of the doctor's letter from the President's physician that says, he is going to continue to fulfill his presidential duties.
But of course, the question is, what are those duties going to look like? And what happens if his staff is having to quarantine as well, given the fact that they have been around him? His Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is one of them who has been obviously constantly around the President, as he was getting ready for the debate. But Don, he's also been on Capitol Hill when the Supreme Court Nominee Amy Coney Barrett.
And I think we have a picture to show you just how many levels of power are going to be involved in this and they potentially have to quarantine. There you see it, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on the right, the Supreme Court nominee in the center, and then on the left, you see the President's three top aides, the Vice President Mike Pence, Mark Meadows and the guy on the left and the red tie is the White House Counsel, Pat Cipollone. These are all massive power players that have all been around the President and Hope Hicks, and now both of them have tested positive for coronavirus.
So the question of what the power in Washington is going to look like over the next few weeks as we figure out how severe the President's diagnosis is going to be and how widespread this really is among his circle is just to be determined. We do not know the depth of it, we are going to have to wait to find out that's something that we'll just have to learn in the coming days. But it's going to raise a lot of questions about the campaign as well and the future of that. Because I heard, Brian, saying it's 13 days away is the next presidential debate. Obviously that is shorter than the 14 day quarantine period that happens. There are still questions about how the President will be tested when they will decide he's cleared from coronavirus. And really how the next two weeks look for him, if he does develop symptoms, if he does not just start to feel well, like his doctor says he does today.
And that raises questions about Joe Biden's campaign too, Don, and whether or not he's going to suspend his campaign. We're thinking back someone much smarter than me pointed out tonight that back in 1912 when Roosevelt -- Teddy Roosevelt had been an assassination attempt, Woodrow Wilson suspended his campaign and waited for him to recover. So is this a situation like that where the Biden campaign takes a step like that? Do they continue campaigning over the next few weeks, knowing that the President can't? We're in a critical timeframe. It was already basically a pressure cooker inside the Trump campaign. And now this diagnosis is their worst nightmare, Don.
LEMON: Yeah. And this is, listen, this is, again, so many unknowns. Sanjay, I'm going to ask you because you're the doctor. You saw that the photograph that Kaitlan made us aware of. You see Mitch McConnell, you see Mark Meadows, you see the Vice President, and you see Amy Coney Barrett, right? So she's there. The hearings are supposed to start. Are they going to have to be postponed now? Is she going to have to quarantine because the Vice President admittedly on camera saying that he met -- when he was in the Oval Office, he met with the President on Tuesday?
