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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Treated at Walter Reed; Media Not Getting Much Information on Trump; V.P. Pence and House Speaker Pelosi on Standby; Last Tweet by POTUS Prior to Flight to Walter Reed; Two Senators Tested Positive for COVID-19; Kellyanne Conway Tweeted She's Positive. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 02, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Thank you for watching us for this installment of Cuomo Prime Time. We'll be back on at midnight Eastern for a special live late-night edition of Prime Time until 2 in the morning and then tomorrow night we'll be on Saturday night from 10 p.m. to 12.
But right now, the star of the night. CNN Tonight with D. Lemon picking up the coverage.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: What a historic day, huh, for 24 hours.
CUOMO: Just when you think you've seen everything. My regret is of course the president didn't have to be in this situation.
LEMON: Yes. Well, the American people didn't either, the American people.
CUOMO: That's a very good point.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: This is not just him getting sick. This affects everybody.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We only have one president.
LEMON: And that's what we're going to talk about. We'll talk about the president and the American people. This is all about what the American people need to know.
Thank you, Chris. I'll see you soon. And I'll be watching at midnight.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Here's our breaking news. At this hour, the President of the United States is in the hospital, he's at Walter Reed Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, this after revealing less than 24 hours. You were all sitting here with me going through this. Less than 24 hours ago that he and the first lady of the United States had tested positive for the coronavirus.
So, people around the country stunned, stunned by the news. Perhaps you are one of the people who are stunned by the news. It's still a shock even though it has been clear from the start of all this from this pandemic that the president has been putting himself. He's been putting his staff and many others in this country at grave risk. With his blatant disregard for the public health measures that keep people healthy and save lives.
Like so many other people in this country have been tonight. The President of the United States is in the hospital. His family is worried, his friends and his contacts and his supporters. They don't know if they're going to get sick too. They're scared. And they are concerned.
And like so many other coronavirus cases in the country, his could have been avoided. Let's hope the president improves. We know he has the best care available. Here's what we do know, though.
Around 6.15 p.m. this evening, after not seeing or hearing from him all day, the president walked out of the White House wearing a mask, waving to reporters as he headed towards Marine One for the trip to the hospital, his trip to the hospital. He did not take questions from reporters.
And then moments later, the president chopper lifted off from the South Lawn for the roughly 10 to 15-minute flight to Walter Reed. Yet, all this is happening. We have an almost total lack of transparency in this country right now from the White House.
There's so much mystery. What's going on? We have not heard from the White House doctor today. We have not gotten factual explanations of the president's symptoms. If it hadn't been for Hope Hicks' positive test results becoming public, we've never have known about her case or the president's tests.
How can Americans, how can you out there tonight - think about this, how can you know the truth about this president and his condition? What are the president's symptoms? Officially. Have we heard anything? No. Why is he at Walter Reed? When did he first begin to get sick, to feel sick?
Who made the decisions to continue to go on the road to a fundraiser in New Jersey without masks or social distancing when they knew the president had been exposed to a known possible case?
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Why do they treat the president with an experimental medication? Why? What is going on? Don't you deserve to know as Americans? Honestly. Again, we hope the president improves. But he is the person that America elected to be the president. And that comes with certain things like knowing the president's medical condition as a public servant. These are critical questions that must be answered. That should have
been answered already. But all we have heard from the White House since the president's departure is this video message that was released on Twitter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want to thank everybody for the tremendous support. I'm going to Walter Reed hospital. I think I'm doing well. But we're going to make sure that things work out. The first lady is doing very well. So, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I will never forget it. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Also, tonight the White House stating clearly that there won't be a transfer of power to the Vice President, Mike Pence, that the president, quote, "is in charge." The vice president and the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi who are in line, the line of succession should the need ever arise, both testing negative for the virus today.
But are there plans if God forbid, God forbid his condition worsens? Are there plans? Don't you deserve to know that as Americans? Again, we have so many questions tonight. This comes as we are learning that two Republican Senators Mike Lee of Utah and Thom Tillis of North Carolina have tested positive for the COVID-19.
Both of them attended the White House Rose Garden ceremony last weekend where President Trump nominated Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. We need to get so many questions answered for you the American people.
Let's turn right away to CNN's White House respondents, plural, Jeremy Diamond and Kaitlan Collins, and also, our very own chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So, doctor, good evening to everyone.
Doctor, I'm going to start with you. So tonight, we are learning the president has had trouble breathing. He's had a fever since this morning, fatigue. Again, we -- it would be great to get some official notice from the White House. The routine updates so that the American people can find out how their president is doing. But what is all this say about his condition and the care that he might need?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I had heard about the fever and the fatigue, in particular. I did not know specifically about the difficulty breathing. That would add another level of concern obviously.
You know, it was one of the things like throughout the day we heard different things. First, we heard he was doing well then there were mild symptoms, though we did hear about the fever and the fatigue. We also heard that he was getting this very experimental although promising monoclonal antibody therapy.
I think as the day sort of progressed, Don, the level of concern was increasing. He had the positive diagnosis obviously. But I think what we were hearing from people inside was that the symptoms were becoming concerning. And that he would be better suited for him to be at the hospital. In part, out of an abundance of caution, a term that's often used.
But also, for legitimate reasons that, you know, if he needs care to take care of these things you have advanced imaging, you have an ICU close by, you have multiple specialists all in the hospital if he needs something that's the place to be. So, I think that was the right call but it came through an evolution of thinking it seem like because concern was rising throughout the day.
LEMON: But at first again, Sanjay, you know, not to just harp on this. But first we heard out of abundance of caution. And then I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who said I'm not -- I don't know about that abundance of caution thing. This is, it appears to be a bit more serious than just an abundance of caution for them to have to go to Walter Reed.
And, you know, to be in a place where they have all of the equipment that you said. And the experimental treatment is called Regeneron, right, that he is receiving. We know that he is inclined to take experimental treatments, right?
GUPTA: Right.
LEMON: Remember hydroxychloroquine and so on. Why would they give him this experimental drug to the President of the United States when no one else is getting it?
GUPTA: Yes. So, on the first point, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think it wasn't I don't think it's just abundance of caution. You know, this is a significant move to move the President of the United States to Walter Reed.
So, you know, I think there was clearly, to me, increasing levels of concern. Maybe the concern existed all day and they were unfurling these details at us. But these are bread crumbs that we get every now and then. We always have to sort of interpret these things.
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But I think that the idea that he's obviously was able to walk to the chopper and walk off the chopper. But they're worried that even minor symptoms can turn major quickly. Remember Boris Johnson.
LEMON: Right.
GUPTA: Went into the hospital with minor symptoms out of an abundance of caution and end up spending three days in the intensive care unit. So that's the sort of thing you want to avoid. Doing a rapid sort of evac to the hospital to go straight to the intensive care unit is a big deal. So that's the sort of caution part of it.
As far as the therapy, this Regeneron is the company, monoclonal antibody therapy is the actual experimental therapy here. It's very early. It doesn't have emergency use authorization, Don. It is something that has shown a lot of promise. And I think there's a lot of excitement around it. But basically you are giving these proteins, these antibodies to help fight the infection.
When you get infected or if get a vaccine the goal is your body makes antibodies. The antibodies can help the virus the next time it sees it. In this case you're sort of giving some of the antibodies directly to the person to help them be able to overwhelm the virus.
Again, we don't have a lot of data to know that it works. But what do I take out of that? There was concern.
LEMON: Yes.
GUPTA: There was enough concern to say even though this isn't approved or even authorized we want to obtain this under compassionate use and give it to the President of the United States.
LEMON: Aren't people given antibodies? Because I know I had a friend of my family who died recently. And I talked about it here on CNN. She, according to her mother, was given antibodies and they said it didn't work for her. One day she was great and the next day she wouldn't be.
And then one day she would be great. And they kept trying to give her these antibodies. So, is that -- is that different than Regeneron? Are there -- because as I understand not any -- not everyone -- or not anybody else but the president is getting this sort of treatment.
GUPTA: Right. Right. Sorry to hear about your friend, Don. The -- there's convalescent plasma and that is basically plasma from survivors and the hope there is that the plasma contains enough antibodies to have some sort of impact. And you'll remember, Don, that did get emergency use authorization several weeks ago.
LEMON: Got it.
GUPTA: The data that was presented at that point by the FDA was exaggerated data as it turns out. But it still has this emergency use authorization. This is similar. But in this case, they take antibodies that are considered sort of the gold standard antibodies, a couple of them and they just reproduce those over and over again. And they are giving that as part of a cocktail now to somebody who is dealing with the disease.
Some people make the argument that you should give this earlier in the course of the disease so that you're building up the antibodies to these proteins to help fight the infection. But again, it's really early. I mean, the president didn't get it as part of the clinical trial. The trial so far and the data around the trials are 275 people from Regeneron. So, you know, we want to see more data on that ultimately. And hopefully it's very promising. So hopefully it works.
But the president got it under this compassionate use thing.
LEMON: Got it. GUPTA: Which typically is for patients who were in the hospital, no other options, you know, may not survive. That's typically when you think of compassionate use. But that was the same sort of model that allowed him to get the medication today.
LEMON: I want to get our other folks in, doctor. But I just have to ask you, are you hearing -- I know you have sources at the White House and at the task force, are you hearing anything from the White House and the task force that we need to know about?
GUPTA: Surprisingly, no. You know, and the task force the quote that they gave me was that we are in the dark on this which I just thought was really surprising. I mean, you have the president. He's dealing with COVID-19, a novel disease. You happen to have some of the world's best experts on this novel disease that are part of your own task force.
LEMON: Yes.
GUPTA: I mean, maybe that's their opinions on this just to get, you know, more minds working given the president has this. But they're in the dark, they're watching television and reading the newspapers to get, to find out what's going on.
LEMON: So, here's the thing, Kaitlan. So, you know, I'm old enough to remember when Ronald Reagan being shot. I remember I was driving home from school. I was a freshman in high school. And I'm in my little VW Beetle and telling people out of the window the president has been shot. Nobody believed me.
But what I remember since I was always interested in the news business, is that there was always a briefing. Today at this time the president was shot. He was hit here. This is what they're doing at the hospital. These are the concerns for the president, and on and on, when other presidents have had treatment. When George H.W. Bush when he was on overseas trip and he choked on something. They gave updates on the president.
So there has been none of that. No official this is what Hope Hicks a top aide to the president tested positive for the coronavirus today. And precaution this is what we're doing. in abundance of precaution this is what we're doing. The president is going to, you know, go into quarantine. She's going to isolate.
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Nothing. What is going on here?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No.
LEMON: What is happening?
COLLINS: It's deeply concerning, Don, that the president was taken to the hospital today, he is on experimental drugs, as Sanjay just laid out. And we did not get a briefing from his doctor. The only thing we got were two memos from Dr. Sean Conley detailing
the president's diagnosis with coronavirus and then detailing that cocktail, the antibody cocktail that he took today. Other than that, there has not been a chance to pose questions to him to ask about the president's current state.
These things that we have been hearing not from official White House channels but through back channels, through sources which is that the president has a fever. These other conditions about what kind of state his health is in right now, we're not learning that from the White House officially. We're learning it through sources.
And so that's why it raised so many concerns that the president's doctor has not come out and briefed reporters yet. And he is at the hospital of course. Now we do know that Dr. Conley, his physician did travel with the president to Walter Reed. But the White House has been not forthcoming at best to say what they have been saying about the president.
And instead, we've heard from the chief of staff, the press secretary and the president's economic adviser on his health. And of course, they all said that the president was experiencing mild symptoms, had a moderate case and was in good spirits.
Clearly, Don, that's not the case. Because he's in the hospital, he's going to be there for the next several days. They had enough of a level of concern to feel like he needed to go to the hospital. So, it does seem to be the situation where they should be more forthcoming with all of the details behind the judgment before between them sending the president to the hospital. But they have not done that yet.
LEMON: Jeremy, I want to bring you in now. Until we saw President Trump get on Marine One in the South Lawn. We hadn't seen the president in nearly 24 hours. He had not been tweeting which is unusual. It's all unusual. And maybe speaks to the seriousness of what is going on. What do you know? What can you tell us at this hour?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's no question that seeing the president be off Twitter for most of the day is rarely happens. Right? And so, you have to wonder what his condition is. Is he resting? You know, what is happening behind the scenes?
And as Kaitlan said, you know, while the White House has provided these two memos from the White House physician with very few details. And we've only heard from political officials. There's a lot of questions that remain unanswered.
I mean, I spoke with a White House official earlier tonight who said that they do expect the White House to be providing regular updates on the president's condition. But it's not clear what form exactly that is going to take. And whether that will simply be more memos from the White House physician or if we'll actually get a chance to ask those doctors some questions about the situation with the president. What's clear, Don, is that there has been a change. I mean, you think
back to the nearly 18 hours that took place between when the president announced that he had tested positive. That he and the first lady had tested positive for the coronavirus. In which the White House physician, Dr. Sean Conley said that the president was doing well and that he expected he would remain at the White House for the duration of his convalescence.
And then you fast forward to 18 hours later and the President of the United States is arriving here at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center to be admitted as a patient not just for a couple of tests a few hours here at the hospital but for a few days is what the White House is saying.
So clearly, in that 18-hour period there are a number of things that must have changed in a significant way because it's not just the president's condition. You also have to keep in mind the president's psychology and the way that he likes to portray himself and he doesn't like to appear weak.
So, it's got to take a lot for the President of the United States. This president, in particular, to agree to deal with all the optics of him going to the hospital and being admitted for several days, you know, because of the potential upside that he could get from having that kind of treatment.
LEMON: So, here's what I want to say before. There is -- there's video, Sanjay, and we saw this Rose Garden event that happened earlier in the week. And Thom Tillis said that he -- Republican Senator Thom Tillis tested positive for coronavirus.
And now we have some breaking news. OK? And we don't know if there is where it happened. But this person was certainly there with them and no social distancing. No mask. So, tonight, this is from Kellyanne Conway. This is a breaking Tonight, I tested for -- positive for the COVID-19. My symptoms are mild. Light cough. And I'm feeling fine. I have begun a quarantine process in consultation with physicians. As always, my heart is with everyone affected by this global pandemic.
I was watching the video of the Rose Garden event, Dr. Gupta. And I saw all of those -- there she is, there is Kellyanne Conway. All those people sitting there. No mask. No social distancing.
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And now we have several people members of our government, if not elected officials, advisers to the president all sitting there including the attorney general of the United States, the chief of staff. Tom tils who tested positive. He is wearing a mask, by the way, though.
And they and Kellyanne Conway now the breaking news has tested positive for COVID-19. What is going on, Sanjay?
GUPTA: Well, I mean, first of all, I feel for her, you know, and all the people who are newly diagnosed. I mean, just having talked to so many people who have received that diagnosis. It's kind of, you know, it's jarring for people, you know because it suddenly makes it very real.
And, you know statistically, chances are people are going to recover and be OK. But it is very jarring. But I think, Don, to your point, I think we're starting to be able to describe this as a potential super- spreader event that occurred. I mean, it was outside which is beneficial. But as you mentioned, people unmasked, within six feet, closely clustered for long periods of time.
So, there are a lot of people who had close contact with each other there. We don't know if there was a person that was a particular super-spreader. Or there are several people there. But it's sounding more and more like that's where many of these people maybe had that first exposure.
No, you know, we know the president the contact tracing is the key then. right? Can you find, can you trace people and hopefully find their contacts and quarantine them? It can be really hard. Because people if they didn't get tested, they don't know. They could have been spreading for a long time.
With the president, if he develops symptoms on Thursday, it's usually a few days before you develop symptoms where you are the most contagious. During the time, you know, the president traveled to five states. He was in Washington. He came in contact with lots and lots of people. It becomes really challenging.
But that event that you're looking at is increasingly sounding like a super-spreader event. We haven't said that very often, Don, because it's just so hard to do contact tracing in this country when you have 40,000 new infections a day. It's a laborious task to do contact tracing. But this is -- this one is becoming clearer.
LEMON: Kaitlan, I want to bring you back in. Because I forget exactly how you characterize it last night, but you said, man, considering the tight quarters at the White House, how many of these people had been in debate prep with the president in close quarters. They had been to the events at the White House. There were so many people who had been -- who had, you know, been around the president, been around Hope Hicks and so on and Kellyanne Conway.
I think that you thought that this where -- this is where this might be heading considering that not many people wear masks. It seems to be frowned upon in this administration.
COLLINS: That's exactly right. It is a tone that has been set from the top. And I've talked with so many White House officials who are midlevel or lower level. They're not cabinet secretaries or not the senior staffers. And sometimes when they go in meetings, Don, they don't put a mask on because their boss -- bosses are not wearing a mask.
So, if the head of your agency that you work for and you go into a meeting with them and their cabinet secretary isn't wearing a mask, you're not likely going to wear one because they feel uncomfortable. It is a real situation that played out inside the West Wing and that's what's led to this atmosphere where you see people going into the Rose Garden like they did last Saturday.
And you see Kellyanne Conway there. And of course, she no longer works in the White House. But there was a moment, and I remember as I was watching this ceremony last Saturday watching the Supreme Court nominee get picked, Kellyanne Conway stops and speaks with the attorney general very close for several moments, maybe several minutes, and neither of them are wearing a mask. And they are not obviously distanced. They are speaking very close.
And I remember watching it and thinking this is remarkable. Because these are two people who are clearly not very close, they clearly are not in the same household and they are having this intimate conversation so close to one another in this outdoor event.
And we are seeing the repercussions of what happened. And it looks like it's coming from this event. Of course, that's going to be up to the epidemiologist to decide. But also keep in mind, Kellyanne Conway wasn't just at that event on Saturday. She also participated in the president's debate prep.
And we saw her going to the White House on two occasions with Chris Christie to help the president as he got ready for Tuesday in Cleveland. And during those debate prep sessions they weren't extremely long, but they were long enough where it was a sustained period of contact. They were all in the same room. And they were not wearing masks, Don.
So, of course, it just raises questions about if they had just taken these simple steps that so many medical experts have recommended --
LEMON: Right on.
COLLINS: -- how different could this be.
LEMON: Yes, you're right on. Listen, Jeremy, in your reporting I think you talked about moments -- because I was getting the information on Kellyanne Conway right here -- about how everyone you saw, you know, the White House staff on the lawn and whoever is traveling with the president, I think the Secret Service now, the members of the military who are on Marine One with him all wearing masks now.
[22:25:00]
What has changed between now and yesterday? I know the president is sick. But the science has not changed. For eight to nine months people have been preaching about social distancing, physical distancing, wearing a mask, and so on and so forth.
And again, not to harp on this, but it is now, I think it's confirmed. Absolutely. The White House is a coronavirus hot spot and of their own making.
DIAMOND: Yes. And what's unfortunate, Don, is that the science is so clear on all of this on all of these preventive measures that you can take. And it's been clear on it for months now. I mean, the White House has been disregarding, flouting, whatever you want to say, all of the CDC guidelines that are coming from this very same -- this is the same federal government, Don, and the CDC guidelines say social distance, wear a mask. Don't gather with, you know, groups of more than ten.
And all of these things are things that the president is flouting whether he is holding rallies with thousands of supporters packed closely together, or whether he is having an event on the South Lawn of the White House to announce a Supreme Court pick with 150 of his supporters and allies and aides all packed closely together.
Listen, I was on the South Lawn of the White House when the president had that event with the Supreme Court pick. And I remember, Don, watching all of these people flow in. Some of them were actually wearing masks as they arrived. I mean, I think about some of the president's allies.
A former White House aide Mercedes Schlapp, and Matt Schlapp, the chairman of the American Conservative Union. They both arrived with masks. As soon as they arrived with the rest of the crowd which was not wearing masks, they took their mask off. And then they are in these, you know, tightly packed together, all, you know, Mike Lee, Senator Mike Lee who has tested positive was hugging people at this event.
I mean, it's just the kind of common-sense thing that we in the media and most of the experts in the government have been talking about and trying to hammer home for months and months and months. And to think that the White House has flouted that, and yet now it seems it takes the President of the United States actually testing positive for this for the message to actually get through to some of these White House officials.
But Don, what I think about now is all of the people who have attended this Trump rallies. The thousands of people who have attended these Trump rallies who don't have the same national profile as a Kellyanne Conway or as a Hope Hicks, --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Or the access to medical care, the best medical care in the world and the access to all of that, to testing.
DIAMOND: And yet you have to think, if people are catching this at the Supreme Court event, potentially, with 150 people there, what's happening when the president is gathering thousands of people at rallies across the country which he has been doing for the last several weeks.
LEMON: Dr. Gupta, they use the justification that these things are -- they use that these events were held outdoors as a justification that, it's going to be fine. But this event was held outdoors. And again, we don't know. But the chances are that all of these folks were there. And they're all testing positive. But one -- being outdoors is not 100 percent safe. It won't keep you 100 percent from getting the coronavirus.
GUPTA: No. It won't, especially when you starting to hear the scenarios that Jeremy and Kaitlan are describing. People are very close together. The virus is a very contagious virus. Unmasked, very close together, talking like that, that is how the virus can jump. the virus becomes very happy in those situations moving from host to host. That's what it's trying to do.
Outside is better than inside, no question. How much better? We've looked at a bunch of studies, they say maybe -- maybe 18-fold better. It's 18-time -- the viral transmission is 18-fold less outside versus inside but closely quartered, unmasked, and long duration. You know, greater than 10, 15 minutes. And you know sitting next to somebody. The virus is moving.
If we could only see it, right, Don? You can't see this thing. But can you imagine if you could actually see the virus, you know, sort of tentacled by six-foot long strings and everybody would see it moving from person to person fairly easily whether you're inside or you're outside.
LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it. Don't go far. Because, you know, there's always breaking news, it seems lately. So, thank you. I'll see you guys all soon.
There's a breaking news. Kellyanne Conway, the former top aide, very close aide to the President of the United States has now -- is now tweeting that she has test a -- has tested positive for the COVID-19 virus. She is among a number of people in the administration at the White House, starting with Hope Hicks that we learned about yesterday, of course, the president and the first lady. And now we're hearing about Kellyanne Conway.
I know this may sound strange to some, considering I have to report on her. That's my job to be critical. But I do know Kellyanne Conway personally and I wish her and her family the very best and speediest of recoveries.
[22:30:01]
But we are getting more information throughout the night, the state of the president's health. We need some official information though from the administration. The American people deserve that. The president is now at Walter Reed Medical Center where he is expected to remain for a few days. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, we have more breaking news tonight. Kellyanne Conway -- Kellyanne Conway is a top aid to the president until recently -- tweeting she was tested positive for coronavirus. She attended that packed Rose Garden event last weekend where the president nominated Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. She was also part of the president's debate prep team.
So I want to discuss now with CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and David Axelrod, the former senior adviser to President Barack Obama. Good evening.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi.
LEMON: And here we go. My goodness. Never a dull moment. Gloria, let's talk about Kellyanne adding to the list of people who went from downplaying the virus to testing positive. It is an escalating crisis by the minute.
BORGER: Yeah. It really is. Sad to say it's almost as if what we see developing before our eyes is a COVID-19 cluster inside the White House. And it's sad to me because this is something that a lot of people said was inevitable because what we saw at the White House where people who refused to wear masks, a president who said, look, we have turned the corner, this is behind us, and they believed that somehow they were bullet proof or not going to be exposed because, of course, they were tested regularly.
But we all know that a quick test is only as good as the one you had yesterday. And so, that gave them a false sense of security that they really shouldn't have had.
LEMON: Yeah.
BORGER: And so, you know, we have a president at the top of the pyramid here who is, unfortunately, now at Walter Reed Hospital, taking an experimental monoclonal antibody and people like Kellyanne Conway, the president of Notre Dame, and the list goes on and on who were all at that event without --
LEMON: Mike Lee, Thom Tillis and --
BORGER: Mike Lee, Thom Tillis --
LEMON: But Thom Tillis, I think, was actually wearing a mask, but --
[22:35:02]
BORGER: Some of the time, yes.
LEMON: Yeah. Some of the time.
BORGER: And I -- and I think, you know, people should know better. There -- this is what their own CDC recommends to people like us and this is what we try and do. Here's a mask. And this is what we try and do every single day.
LEMON: Here's my mask right here too. And I'm the only one -- you're the only one in your studio, right? I'm the only one here, but just in case --
BORGER: Yeah. All alone.
LEMON: -- you bump into people, security guards, or whatever, someone working late in the building because these are -- we're here. Most of the CNN team is working from home. So, just us, chickens, are here as my grandma would say. But I got to -- before I get to David, I got to say there were so many people who were at that event and then came in contact with other people we saw getting onto Marine One. We saw all the pictures, Gloria, of -- we saw Jared. We saw Steven Miller and so on and so forth.
BORGER: Hope Hicks.
LEMON: Hope Hicks was there with them. And I think when you said that their false sense of security in the testing, even today, hearing members of the president's family -- I think Don Jr. was on Tucker Carlson and said -- he said, you know, we were tested. We were positive. This shouldn't have that -- I mean we were negative. They shouldn't have that false sense of security because it takes a virus sometimes a while to show up. And just because you tested --
BORGER: Right. And Mark Meadows said it. Mark Meadows --
LEMON: Just because you tested negative, it does not mean that you are negative. It could be a false negative.
BORGER: Right. And also the next day, you can be positive.
LEMON: Right.
BORGER: And Mark Meadaows, the chief of staff, was briefing reporters today. Let me also add that there have been no briefings from doctors as you have been talking about -- we've been talking about all day. But Mark Meadows was briefing reporters today and he wasn't wearing a mask.
LEMON: Yeah.
BORGER: And he said, well, you know, I get tested regularly.
LEMON: Yeah. David, hello.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey. How are you?
LEMON: So, the White House was saying all day that the president had mild symptoms and that was -- it wasn't official as you know. It started off with an abundance of caution. It was mild. The president was doing great or whatever.
Then all of a sudden we're told that the president is heading to Walter Reed. What is the administration need to do now because they have squandered the trust of the public over the course of the last four years and now they seem to be relying on it?
AXELROD: Well, look. I think the thing that's most upsetting about this is we know from the beginning of this administration they believe information is on a need to know basis and they'll decide when we need to know.
And the president had some sort of medical episode last fall and we still don't know what happened. It obviously figures into how they're treating him now and his vulnerabilities, right? But we don't know what those were.
But Don, I think the bigger issue is, why they were -- why they were deceptive? They were deceptive because for the last seventh months the president has been playing down masks, playing down the guidance of his own administration. And now, they're in this really awkward position of having flouted their own regulations and their own guidance and paying a terrible price for it. And this all comes 30 days before an election in which his handling of the virus has been at issue.
So, I think with mostly everything else that happened in this administration, how they handled this has been passed through a political prism rather than public information prism.
LEMON: Gloria, you know, Trump and Biden shared a debate stage on Tuesday night. But we're told no one from the president's team alerted the Biden campaign of possible exposure. Biden has, thankfully, tested negative. That's as of today. But again, he needs --
BORGER: Right.
LEMON: -- to continue to get tested. But as we know, it doesn't mean that he's out of the woods.
BORGER: No. It doesn't. And the difference though between the Biden team and Trump team is the Biden team has effectively been operating in a bubble. They have been very careful.
LEMON: And getting criticized about it from the president and from the right and from --
BORGER: Absolutely.
LEMON: -- conservative media --
AXELROD: Right.
LEMON: -- when they are doing the right thing. Go on, Gloria. Sorry.
BORGER: Yeah. Making fun -- making fun of the way Biden looks in his mask.
LEMON: He's in a -- he's in a basement or whatever.
BORGER: The president did it -- the president did it at the debate the other night --
AXELROD: Yeah.
BORGER: -- talking about Biden and his mask. It's outrageous. And now, we saw the president and walking to Marine One in what will become an iconic picture there in his face mask because he had to do it because he's clearly contagious.
LEMON: David, I want -- yeah. Go ahead.
AXELROD: I just want to make one point. You know, Gloria said we haven't heard from the doctors.
BORGER: Yeah.
AXELROD: We really haven't heard from doctors very much at the president's coronavirus briefings for the last several months because he didn't want them to give us the information that they would give us about the severity of it, about what was necessary. It ran counter to his political message.
[22:39:59]
The only doctor we've really heard from much lately on the president's platform is Dr. Atlas who has nothing to do with epidemiology. And by the way, I don't hear anything about him consulting with the president and his doctors today on the president's condition. Why? Because he has no expertise in the area. So, you know, that has to be noted.
BORGER: Let me add one thing. Did they consult with Tony Fauci on the president's treatment, who is the foremost authority on COVID-19? With Deborah Birx? With any of the other members of the task force, with Dr. Redfield? I mean we haven't heard from those people. We have reporting that says they were largely in the dark on this.
So, if you're president of the United States, why aren't you consulting with the foremost authority on COVID-19 who are on your own task force?
LEMON: Yeah. Thank you both. I really appreciate it.
Here is the breaking news. Tonight, Kellyanne Conway tweeting, tonight, I tested positive for COVID-19. My symptoms are mild, light cough, and I'm feeling fine. I have begun a quarantine process in consultation with physicians. As always, my heart is with everyone affected by this global pandemic.
So, you have that and you have president of the United States now hospitalized because of COVID-19. The White House announcing today though there will be no transfer of power while the president battles coronavirus at Walter Reed Medical Center, stressing the president is in charge and that he will carry out his duties without disruption.
Joining me now is CNN's chief medical -- chief political correspondent -- excuse me -- Dana Bash, although she is a doctor of sorts, and CNN national security analyst, James Clapper, the former director of national intelligence. I think she is a doctor of politics. Thank you both for joining us.
Dana, Kellyanne Conway now announcing she's tested positive. Two important republican senators, and of course, the president, so many people critical to the government have been put at risk now.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, look, if you look -- and I know you have been talking about it earlier in the program -- look at what happened at the White House in the Rose Garden on Saturday, the big event that they had for Amy Coney Barrett when the president formally announced that she would be his pick for the Supreme Court, you can see people mingling.
Now, it was outside, but people were so close to one another. And now, we have example after example of the people who were there. And by the way, I was just told it wasn't just outside. There were receptions inside for, you know, maybe smaller groups of people, but they included senators. And so, now, you have so many people who were there who tested positive.
I just want to say we have known Kellyanne for a long time, and we -- obviously, we really wish her well and everybody else, the senators, Hope, the president, who are dealing with this virus that so many people across the country are dealing with. But it looks as though that event -- and again I'm not a doctor -- but just in observing what we have seen over 24 hours, it was a super-spreader at the White House.
LEMON: Yeah. Director Clapper, hello to you. You know, is the U.S. vulnerable right now and what are national security officials doing to keep the country safe?
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, obviously we are vulnerable if there's any kind of impairment of our president. And you can be assured that the whole is watching in particularly how the White House behaves and reacts as a result of this.
So, the intelligence community, I'm quite confident, is leaning forward in the fox hole, so to speak, as is the Department of Defense I think without being told.
One of the things that concerns me here, Don, is one of the reasons -- one of the reasons that the National Security Act of 1947 was enacted, one thing it did was to create the National Security Council as a result of the experience with Franklin Roosevelt during World War II and his illness and that the notion was to build a structure under him to help make decisions.
Well, that structure still exists today, but it's atrophied a good bit I think under this president. So, yes. I think the answer to that question has to be yes. This is a vulnerable time for the United States.
LEMON: The White House emphasizing today that the president remains in power, Dana. So, what do we know about the political chain of command and what should they be doing now? This is all information that should be -- I think much should be laid out to the American people and it's not happening.
[22:45:03]
BASH: Right. What you have up there is the presidential line of succession. And obviously, we should say that the president has not done anything to transfer power using the 25th Amendment. He is -- we saw him walk today to the helicopter. I mena, we don't have any indication that that will have to be employed.
However, if you put it back up on the screen, I thought what was really fascinating earlier today on CNN on the Situation Room, Jay Johnson, who served with Director Clapper, he was homeland security secretary. He said that every one of the people on the screen that we're looking at should be quarantining right now because there is so much unknown because we know that the virus has really taken hold and spreading through the halls of power.
And so, yes, many of the people on the screen we're looking at, starting with the vice president and the house speaker, have said today they tested negative. We also know that that doesn't necessarily mean anything when the incubation period could take a little bit longer. So, these are very important individuals, not just for politics but for the continuity of government.
LEMON: Director, the number one thing we need to do right now to maintain national security?
CLAPPER: Well, the number one thing I think -- I hope has already happened, which is a president and vice president, despite the announcement that the president is in charge, have had a heart to heart about invoking the 25th Amendment.
And the reason I think for the deployment to Walter Reed, which is where he ought to be, it's a great facility, is so there can be a quick reaction if the president's condition, God forbid, deteriorates further and he, say, has to be moved to ICU or worse a ventilator.
So I hope that discussion is already taking place. And I also wonder right now what is the situation with the nuclear codes and how is that being handled. I guess the bag is I hope is at Walter Reed. So, those are details that would certainly be useful if they could be cleared up with a clearer authority pronouncement, I think, from a combination of the vice president and authoritative medical official, probably, most likely officials at Walter Reed and/or the president's physician.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it.
More on the breaking news. The president is hospitalized at Walter Reed Medical Center after testing positive for the coronavirus. More top associates of the president testing positive tonight. Lack of information from the White House. We're going to keep on top of all these angles after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want to thank everybody for the tremendous support. I'm going to Walter Reed Hospital. I think I'm doing very well, but we're going to make sure that things work out. The first lady is doing very well. So, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I will never forget it. Thank you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, that was the president of the United States, expected to be at Walter Reed for the next few days, making this the biggest presidential health crisis the nation has faced since President Reagan was shot.
Joining me now, CNN presidential historian, Douglas Brinkley. Doug, good to see you. What a moment we're in.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Good to see you, Don.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: What did you think of the video of the president assuring the nation he would be OK?
BRINKLEY: Oh, I think it was -- it shows the failure of the president's coronavirus response for the year. It will be remembered forever, that video, and also getting on Marine One.
The fact of the matter is, the president of the United States has COVID-19 because he wouldn't wear a mask, he wouldn't social distance, he wouldn't listen to his CDC.
I'm glad he was able to get up on his own two feet and get on the helicopter and make it to Walter Reed. But it was a tragic moment in our nation's history because he's now become a symbol really for what we're all suffering, the failure of our federal government's response to COVID this year.
LEMON: Can you compare this please, Douglas, to other crises the nation has faced, like the shooting of President Reagan, just as an example?
BRINKLEY: Well, you know what? When -- you know, always, Don, presidents have been always worried about showing bad health. I mean, back in the 1893, Grover Cleveland actually had a cancerous tumor in the roof of his mouth. He didn't want anybody to know. So, they snuck him onto a yacht and did the operation on the roof of his mouth in a yacht.
When Reagan was -- Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, they covered it up. FDR covered up a lot of health things. But when Reagan was shot, we all saw it. In fact, Reagan famously said, I forgot to duck, went to George Washington Hospital, made a joke about whether doctors were Republicans or not, but we all prayed for Ronald Reagan, and he pulled through that.
But it started getting Americans worried more than ever starting in the '80s about having to know the health of a president. So, we did know when Ronald Reagan had colon cancer and when he had skin cancer. And really since the '80s, we've been very vigilant on medical records, tell us what's going on, we demand to know, there's no more Grover Cleaveland-Woodrow Wilson-era cover ups allowed. The 25th Amendment kicks in, but also we, as a public, are demanding more. And I think Walter Reed tomorrow morning has to speak about what's going on. Mike Pence has to speak. Maybe Melania Trump, we're not hearing much about her, is holding up anybody from talking about it. I think we have to wonder what she is going through right now. Our nation's prayers have to go for Donald Trump, but we also need answers because a lot is at stake.
LEMON: After testing negative earlier today, Joe Biden spoke in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He wished the president and the first lady well. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd like to start by acknowledging, which I'm sure all of you do as well, sending my prayers for the health and safety of the first lady and the president of the United States after they tested positive for COVID-19. My wife, Jill, and I pray that they'll make a full recovery. This is not a matter of politics. It's a bracing reminder to all of us that we have to take this virus seriously. It's not going away automatically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:55:00]
LEMON: It is the kind of tone that we have come to expect when the nation is feeling challenged and uncertain, Douglas.
BRINKLEY: Absolutely, Don. You know, what a class act Joe Biden was today, refusing to politicize what had happened. Just think back in 2016, Don, when Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee, stumbled after a fund-raiser in New York and felt faint and went into the back of a limo. Donald Trump would mock that she was feeling faint and sick that she was a weak character, just ridiculed her one or two days of illness to nobody's end.
And here you see Joe Biden showing you what a real man does, what a real human being does, and that's just to say, mocking Donald Trump right now is unfair, and we're all going to pull with him together. But we do also have to be reminded that we got to wear a mask and social distance. We are in the thick of this pandemic.
LEMON: We don't have to go back to 2016. We can look at even now where he makes fun of the former vice president, saying he's lost a step and that -- and many in the right-wing media saying he's suffering from some sort of cognitive decline, still making fun.
But yet, I wonder how they would feel about people making fun of this president right now. Guess what? I haven't seen any official politician do it. I've heard everyone say we wish the first lady and the president well, as they should be saying. Now, what happens on social media, a whole different story.
Thank you, Douglas. I appreciate it.
BRINKLEY: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: So tonight, President Trump in the hospital with the coronavirus amid huge concerns over how many people around him may have been exposed. So, breaking just moments ago, Kellyanne Conway confirming she has tested positive. She was at Saturday's announcement of Amy Coney Barrett as the president's Supreme Court nominee.
It was a packed White House event, few masks, no social distancing. At least six people who were there have tested positive, President Trump, the first lady Melania Trump, Senator Thom Tillis, Senator Mike Lee, the president of Notre Dame University, and now Kellyanne Conway. Sadly, we fear and it is probable there is more to come.
Erin Bromage is the associate professor of biology at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth and CNN political analyst, Seung Min Kim, who is also at that event. They both join us. Thank you both for joining.
Erin, you first, this image circles the people that we're going to put up right now from Saturday's Rose Garden event who have tested positive. How concerned should the other people in this -- in their vicinity at the event, how concerned should they be?
ERIN BROMAGE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, there's got to be a deal of concern there that there are so many people that have tested positive. We do know it's outdoors, but they're also very closely spaced. There were no masks. I tend to have a feeling and I'm hearing more and more in the reporting that there were pre-parties and after-parties sort of events that happened there, which is more conducive to the spread. But I bet there's a lot of people there that are really quite nervous.
But more to the point, each person that tests positive, all of their contacts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, before we got this positive diagnosis of infection are also primary contacts for these people. So, the web of people that are going to be caught up in this are going to tally really into the many hundreds, if not more.
LEMON: And we should mention, Seung, there's video of people hugging, and you know, talking, speaking closely. I'm not sure if there were any kisses or cheek kisses or whatever, but people in very -- there we go. So, you see it right there. And you know, as we know, Mike Lee tested positive for the coronavirus.
You were there, Seung. Are you worried you might have caught the virus?
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I feel fine. I'll say that for now. But certainly, everyone who was there, including myself, are taking the appropriate precautions. I was at that event on Saturday. I was also at the White House all day yesterday as the designated pool reporter, so at Kayleigh McEnany's briefing, at the departure of -- from the south lawn where the president left when he was on his way to New Jersey.
And certainly, I think everyone there has some level of concern. I will say that just being there, if you kind of look at the images and photos of that event, where the press were, particularly the non- photographers, were all the way in the back, kind of behind the ropes. Everyone in the press corps wears masks, and it's hard to social distance in that space, but we do -- try to do what we can kind of outside.
