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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Hospitalized at Walter Reed Medical Center After Testing Positive for Coronavirus; Kellyanne Conway Tweets She is Tested Positive for Coronavirus; White House Officials Have Serious Concerns About President Trump's Health; Two GOP Senators Tested Positive for COVID-19; Physicians Released New Updates From President Trump's Condition; Trump Campaign Manager Tests Positive for Coronavirus. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 02, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It is hard to social distance in that space, but we do -- try to do what we can, kind of outside.
But you're right. We counted about 150 people in the Rose Garden for that event, and as we saw, very few masks, absolute no social distancing at all.
And everyone -- you know, this was a happy occasion for folks in the audience. So there were lots of greetings and handshaking. People were congregating and socializing and mingling.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: People are still shaking hands at the White House?
KIM: They were.
LEMON: I haven't shaken anybody's hands since probably February or March. I mean --
KIM: Yeah. I saw a couple of elbow touches or what not. But, yes, there was a lot of contact, there was a lot of movement, and it just seemed like just a normal time except for the handful of masks that we did see in the audience.
LEMON: So, you think you're fine? That's what we want to know.
KIM: I hope I'm fine. I feel fine.
LEMON: We hope you're fine, too. I'm just checking. I appreciate both of you joining us. Be well, both of you, and be safe. Thank you so much.
ERIN BROMAGE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You're welcome.
KIM: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: This is "CNN Tonight." I'm Don Lemon. The major breaking news, the president of the United States hospitalized at Walter Reed Medical Center tonight after testing positive for coronavirus. President Trump said to be experiencing fatigue and fever.
And Kellyanne Conway tweeting tonight that she is tested positive for coronavirus. She attended the packed Rose Garden event last weekend where the president nominated Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. And she was also part of the president's debate prep team.
There are lots to get to throughout the broadcast this evening. I want to get right to CNN's White House correspondents Jeremy Diamond and John Harwood. Welcome back, Jeremy. Good evening to you, John. Jeremy, you were at Walter Reed tonight. What do we know about the president's condition?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we haven't gotten many updates since that memo, that second memo from Dr. Sean Conley, who is the physician to the president.
And in that memo, Don, this happened shortly before the president entered Marine One and was brought here to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center to be admitted as a patient for several days.
In that memo, Don, the president's doctor says that he has been fatigued. We have also learned separately, of course, that the president has had a fever throughout the day, and we understand that he has been dealing with some of those other moderate symptoms of the coronavirus.
But, Don, to watch the White House's, you know, the shifting timeline that has happened, specifically if you look at that nearly 18-hour window between when the president and his physician announced around 1:00 a.m. that the president had indeed tested positive for coronavirus, the president's doctor at that time saying that the president was doing well and that he expected that the president would undergo his recovery, not here at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, but at the White House itself.
And then in the morning, you have the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, answering a few questions from reporters. At that time, he said that the president was experiencing moderate symptoms, but that he was very energetic and in great spirits.
And then, of course, the letter, the latest letter from the physician saying that the president was indeed fatigued, and then we saw the president brought here to Walter Reed.
And so it obviously raises the question, Don, of what happened in that 18-hour period and to what extent did the president's symptoms, you know, really developed to a point where his team, his doctors, felt that he needed to be brought to the hospital.
But not only that, but for the president himself to agree with those recommendations and to feel that indeed, you know, the benefits of coming to the hospital far outweighed the negative publicity that he might receive and frankly the image that it would bring on to him, an image of weakness rather than an image of strength that he often likes to project.
LEMON: So John, in less than 24 hours after revealing he tested positive for coronavirus, Trump is now hospitalized, but all day, they said he was just fatigued. What are we supposed to believe?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don't have good information. And the challenge is that this has never been a White House that had much interest in telling the truth from the very beginning of the administration. And we've seen that play out this week.
Remember, the news that led to the president disclosing his diagnosis was not put out by the White House. It was broken by Bloomberg and then confirmed by CNN and others last night.
The president knew and his aides knew Thursday morning that Hope Hicks had felt unwell. She quarantined on the way back from Minnesota on Air Force One.
And they went out and had an event at Bedminster yesterday without telling the participants in the event and without telling the American people what happened. When they came back, the participants in the event thought the president looked exhausted. They were questioning whether he was well. The White House didn't say anything.
The news broke about Hope Hicks.
[23:05:00]
HARWOOD: The president went on Hannity, affirmed that Hope had tested positive. He said, well, Melania and I have gotten tested. We don't know if we have it or not. We'll see. We'll get test back.
Pretty clear at that time, from the way that he was speaking and the subsequent disclosure a couple of hours later, that he had gotten some information back. Otherwise, he would have -- had he gotten a negative test, he would have said it had been negative.
Then today, we have gotten a series of tiny morsels of information dribbled out, nothing in a very forthcoming way. Don, you were talking in the last hour about driving your Volkswagen beetle as a high school student when Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981. I also had a Volkswagen beetle in 1981.
I was a young reporter. I went down to George Washington University Hospital and sat in the auditorium where they had eminent doctors joining Larry Speakes, the deputy White House press secretary, in briefing the press on what had happened to the president with a lot of detail.
We didn't get any of that today. And we still don't have a good visibility into exactly -- to what degree the president's condition has deteriorated during the course of the day, to what degree -- was it just a little worse than they let on in the beginning?
It obviously is serious when a 74-year-old man who has coronavirus has a fever, has some symptoms, and goes to the hospital. But we don't really know how serious it is. Unless they start a more proactive process of putting credible medical authorities out there, we are not going to know.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it.
I need to get to our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, now. I have a whole lot of questions for him. Sanjay, it is good to see you again. So, so many people who have been near this president tested positive for coronavirus. Do you expect this to keep growing?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, I do. You know, when we look at the sort of average number of contacts that someone has during a period between the time they're exposed to the time they get diagnosed, you know, during COVID time, maybe 35 contacts, I think that's what Professor Bromage who you had on before talks about.
The president, five states, Washington, D.C., several events, it is looking like this Saturday event in particular was a very concerning event for possibly being a super spreader event.
So, yeah, and that's what makes it challenging, Don, right? It makes it challenging to go find those people. Was this a close contact? How far away were you? How long were you there? Was anybody masked? All those sorts of questions.
You can see how laborious a task it is to try and contact trace like this. But the answer to your question, yes, I think there will be more people still.
LEMON: I know that you can't diagnose someone from watching a video, Sanjay. I'm at least that smart, right? But what do you think of what you saw from the president's condition today considering what we have also learned about his symptoms?
GUPTA: Well, you know, he is obviously -- he gave that little talk, did that little video speech ahead of time. It was very short. I think maybe 20 seconds. And then he walked to the chopper. He was able to walk off.
So, I mean, you know, that is all you can really tell. He's obviously doesn't require any assistance. It seems like he was doing OK. But it is hard to know with these types of symptoms. Fever, fatigue, you know, that's the sort of symptoms I've heard about.
I think when you hear that in somebody who is maybe getting a little bit worse, even if they're still mild or moderate, if they're progressing in the wrong direction, that's when you start to get a little nervous.
He's considered a vulnerable patient. He has got predisposing risk factors for this disease. At that point, you may be making the decision to say, hey, look, he needs to be in a place where he can get the type of care he needs, especially if he starts to worsen even more.
LEMON: We are told the president is taking an experimental drug not approved by the FDA. We talked about it a bit last hour. What does that tell you about the doctors' level of concern for the president, Sanjay?
GUPTA: I was a little surprised by this. The Regeneron folks have been on CCN today a couple of times talking about this monoclonal antibody therapy. There is a lot of enthusiasm around this therapy and a lot of promise. There has been -- this type of therapy has been used for other infections.
But there is just not really any data around this. This isn't even emergency-use authorized, Don. That is how early this is. So, you know, I think that this may be a promising treatment.
But to your question, you got to be thinking. You're in the White House. You're saying the president is doing well. That is the first thing that we heard. But there were these conversations that were happening maybe around that same time saying, we think it may be reasonable to try an unproven, very early, experimental therapy on the president, as well.
[23:10:04]
GUPTA: I think it speaks to the level of concern. I think there was an increasing level of concern about the president. We don't know whether that therapy has done anything for him or it may be too early to even know yet. But I think it does speak to the level of concern in the White House and maybe prompted that decision ultimately to get him over to the hospital.
LEMON: What about the people now who have come out and said, you know, they tested negative? How often should they be tested and what should their level of concern be?
GUPTA: Yeah. So this is such a critical point, right, Don? We're talking about this microcosm of the white house. You can think about this for the country as a whole. First of all, if you've had exposure to someone with known COVID, you had close contact with that person, you need to be quarantined, irrespective of whether or not you get a test and the test is negative.
You need to be quarantined because you have to act at that point like you have the virus. And the whole point of putting someone like that in the quarantine is you can start to significantly diminish the trajectory of this pandemic. If you don't go into quarantine and then subsequently find that you were also shedding virus and spreading virus, that's how the pandemic worsens.
So, I don't place a lot of stock into that negative test that they give. A lot of people are going to say, I am negative after the event, I am good to go. You can test positive up to 14 days in some cases afterward. It averages around five days. But that first negative test, which a lot of people are getting today or after these particular events, I don't think you can really do anything with that information.
LEMON: Yeah. It should not -- it shouldn't give people false hope. Hopefully they're not positive.
GUPTA: Right.
LEMON: But just out of precaution, continue to be tested. Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it. Get some sleep, if you can. Try not to talk to that Cuomo guy at midnight. He will keep you up all night. I know --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: He likes to talk and talk and talk. Thank you very much, doctor. I appreciate it.
So I want to get to Mark McKinnon. He is a former adviser to President George W. Bush and John -- presidents George W. Bush and John McCain. Well, he wasn't a president, but President George W. Bush and John McCain, and the executive producer of "The Circus." It has been a long week, Mark. Also, Jeff Mason is here. Jeff Mason the White House correspondent for Reuters.
I am so happy to have both of you, gentlemen, on this evening. Mark, I'm going to start with you. You know what I'm going to talk about. First, I got to talk about Kellyanne Conway testing positive. She was at the Rose Garden event. You were at the White House today. Is everyone worried? How did it feel to be there today?
MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF "THE CIRCUS": It felt spooky, Don. You could just sense the anxiety and tension, particularly among younger staffers at the White House. They just seem kind -- a lot of the younger staffers were wearing masks that you hadn't seen them wear them before. You just got the sense that their world had really been rocked.
We saw Mark Meadows come out without a mask. Larry Kudlow, to his credit, he did put one on. But it's spooky. It was what it felt like, Don. Then to see the chopper leave, Marine One fly out of the White House to Walter Reed, it was really a chilling scene.
LEMON: You said they were wearing masks for the first time. So when you go, you typically see people not wearing masks?
MCKINNON: Yeah. I mean, most of the time, you do not see people at the White House wearing masks. There was definitely, you know, it was a marked difference today.
LEMON: Yeah. Jeff, you cover the White House. Do you see people wearing masks?
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: No. I mean, and the fact that some people have found religion (ph) on masks, now in October, it's really hard to fathom. I think back on the history of this over the last several months. This isn't the first time there has been the start of what appeared to be a mini outbreak within the White House. Several months ago, Vice President Pence's spokeswoman, Katie Miller, came down with the coronavirus. So did a military valet.
At that time, the White House put in some more strict rules and regulations for people. People were to wear masks except when they were sitting at their desks.
LEMON: But Jeff, those strategies seem to be all about protecting the president through testing. But they didn't mandate masks. So, you know, over and over again, we saw zero social distancing and not wearing masks. So, obviously their strategy didn't work.
MASON: They've gone up and down on masks. Of course, that has been set through an ethos that the president has admitted in terms of his own feelings about masks.
But they did have a phase where they were taking things seriously. And then as the president wanted to show that the country was coming back, that it was time for normalcy again, despite the fact the coronavirus case numbers continue to go up, they stopped, and you didn't see the people coming in to the press room from the press staff wearing masks anymore.
[23:15:03]
MASON: And as Mark was just saying, in the offices, the lower press and upper press offices, reporters can go into, staff were weren't wearing masks either. It just didn't have to be that way then. And it shouldn't have taken the president of the United States coming down with coronavirus for that to shift now.
MCKINNON: Don, if i can just jump in. It's very fundamental. It's really about masks. It is all about examples leading from the top. And Donald Trump clearly, his strategy and his thinking that by wearing a mask is showing a sign of weakness. That's why nobody at that ceremony last Saturday was wearing a mask. That's why his supporters don't wear masks at his rallies. It's all about him.
We heard about people like the Schlapps going into that Saturday meeting where they had masks on before, but as soon as they got in, they took them off, because I think people don't want to be seen -- it's pressure to show strength, they think.
But I tell you, the sign of weakness for people without masks, it's a sign of weakness to the disease, and it goes after people without masks.
LEMON: Jeff, the chief of staff thinks that -- he said today, well, we expect more positive tests. What do you think? Is he right?
MASON: Well, it seems logical that there would be more positive tests. We're just seeing kind of a slow trickle of those coming out tonight with the latest development from Kellyanne Conway and the others who are at that Saturday event. Yesterday, as John Harwood was saying earlier, the first sort of inkling we had of this happening was the news about Hope Hicks, but she was just the first one. We don't know at this point and I'm not sure we ever will know who brought the initial exposure in. If it was -- it's hard to say.
But the point is there were a lot of people and there are a lot of people both at that event, but otherwise who come through the White House gates and have exposure to each other and then those people have exposure to the president.
LEMON: Yeah. And listen. There are a lot of folks who are close to the president, including his children, his son-in-law, whatever. His son- in-law was on the plane.
MASON: Jared Kushner.
LEMON: Yeah, Jared Kushner was on the plane with Hope Hicks. And then, you know, Jared Kushner is married to his daughter. They are together with their children. I mean, it is just all so sad and unbelievable.
Mark, can we talk about the campaigns, OK? Biden's campaign is pulling the negative ads while President Trump is hospitalized. Trump's campaign isn't doing that. Should they?
MCKINNON: I think it would be -- if I were advising a campaign, I would certainly ask the campaign to pull the ads. That's a very simple thing to do. I think it is a right move for the Biden campaign.
I just think everybody should pause. At least for the very near future, this should be about the health of our country, the health of our president. Let us not make a political -- can we just take 24 hours and pause, so we can get a sense of what is happening with the president, Don?
That is part of the problem. We don't know exactly. This hasn't been a transparent administration. This is where you start to pay the cost of that. If you don't have the credibility, how do we believe the information that we are getting from people who came out on the driveway today and say, oh, it's only a mild case. Are we supposed to trust them?
The only thing we do know for a fact today, Don, is that when Donald Trump left the White House, he became another person. He got added to the 585,000 people in America who have now been hospitalized with the coronavirus.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. Sunday night, Showtime, "The Circus." Mark McKinnon, we'll be watching.
MCKINNON: Yeah. The whole show.
LEMON: Thank you. With President Trump hospitalized, the Pentagon is looking to assure the public about national security. The White House says there's no transfer of power. What happened in other countries whose leaders come down with the virus? Fareed Zakaria fills us in, next.
Plus, a lot of questions about potential exposure at Tuesday's presidential debate. Can you believe that was just on Tuesday? I'll speak with someone in the audience.
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[23:20:00]
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LEMON: Here is our breaking news, President Trump hospitalized at Walter Reed Medical Center after testing positive for coronavirus. I can't believe I'm actually saying that. The president of the United States tested positive for coronavirus, after all these months, considering what just everything that went down over the last year.
Trump is not the only leader on the world stage to have contracted coronavirus. Here to discuss now, Fareed Zakaria, the host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS." Hello to you. I really can't believe that -- when this comes out of my mouth, Fareed, that I'm actually saying it, as much as we've discussed it.
Remember, at the beginning, we were on the set in the old days together discussing. Well, there's this virus that is happening in China and we need to pay attention to it. And then here we are. Good evening to you. Give me your reaction to the president being hospitalized after testing positive.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: It's sad news. Naturally, I wish him and the first lady a speedy recovery and as mild a version of the disease as possible. But it's in some sense a reminder, there's a lot of sad news all around. We're going to hit a million deaths for the coronavirus or perhaps we've already hit it. That is more than the number of people who died of AIDS three or four years ago.
This is the biggest global pandemic we've faced. In an odd way, we seem to have gotten, I mean, as a culture, we were getting fatigued. But the virus is not fatigued. The virus is rampaging in country after country. India now has half a million cases every week. It's going to overtake America as the largest repository of this virus.
[23:25:03]
ZAKARIA: So, in a strange way, perhaps the president contracting this just reminds us, you know, we have not turned the corner, as he kept saying. This is not going to disappear. We are not achieving herd immunity. This is the most serious global pandemic we have faced in a hundred years.
LEMON: In the U.K., the prime minister, Boris Johnson, at the time only 55 years old, was hospitalized from coronavirus. That was in the spring. He was admitted to the ICU for several days, put on oxygen. He has since recovered. Does he seem like he's back at full strength now?
ZAKARIA: It's an interesting question, Don. You put it exactly right. He went through probably the worst experience of any world leader. He was for three days in the ICU, he was on a ventilator, and he was on oxygen.
He came out of it saying that the National Health Service, Britain's nationalized health system, saved his life. He did not mince words. He thought he was that close. He seems a much more subdued man that he was.
Boris Johnson was this lively, funny, care-free guy, always telling jokes, always had a kind of (INAUDIBLE) attitude, and also had been very relaxed about the coronavirus. He's probably closest to Trump among world leaders. He had resisted any kind of social distancing. He had resisted the lockdown.
He's come out of it much more attentive to social distancing, much more attentive to urging people to follow the rules. But he's also -- everyone who has interacted with him feels that, you know, he seems to be not maybe a shell of his former self, that's too strong, but he is a definitely a paler image of a very colorful personality that he was.
LEMON: Wow! That is fascinating. So complications from this virus can continue for months after the diagnosis. You were just saying he's a milder version of himself, speaking of Boris Johnson.
You know, Chris has been talking about long haul symptoms. They include brain fog, severe fatigue, pain, and so on. What does that mean for the president of the United States? He's already been considered erratic and unpredictable on the world stage even when he's healthy.
ZAKARIA: Well, so, let's be clear. It could be a very mild case. President Bolsonaro of Brazil also had it. Pretty mild case --
LEMON: He dismissed it, too, downplayed it. Go on.
ZAKARIA: Right, exactly. It's interesting, by the way, Don, that the three most prominent world leaders to have contracted the virus were all populists who said this is nothing, don't pay attention to it, who minimized the problem, who mocked some of the social distancing rules.
Brazil's Bolsonaro, Britain's Boris Johnson, and America's Trump, they've all ended up with COVID. But some of it depends on the level. Bolsonaro's was mild, Boris Johnson's was severe. And as you say, one of the things my doctor friends and I'm sure you've heard this and others have heard this, they're all very cautious. They really don't want to get it.
Every friend of mine who knows medicine says you really don't want this because we don't know about the long-term effects. We just don't know. Maybe it's like the flu, but it doesn't look like it. It looks like it has longer term damaging effects to the heart, to who knows what.
And I think that it's too early to say what that means for Donald Trump. But, look, again, we wish -- you never wish ill health on anyone and one hopes that there aren't longer term effects. But he is 74 years old and had some underlying conditions. So, you naturally worry.
LEMON: I want to play this for you. This is the former president, Barack Obama, what he said at the beginning of a virtual fundraiser with Kamala Harris today. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And let me start, by the way, by just stating that although we're in the midst of a big political fight and we take that very seriously, we also want to extend our best wishes to the president of the United States, the first lady.
Michelle and I are hopeful that they and others who have been affected by COVID around the country are getting the care that they need. That they are going to be on a path to a speedy recovery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, here's the thing. That is a gracious message, OK?
[23:30:02]
LEMON: That is a former president reaching out to the current president. At the same time, just so you know, Fareed, the Trump campaign was sending out e-mails, a fundraising e-mail, slamming Joe Biden as "sleepy Joe" and Barack Obama as "lying Obama."
The contrast couldn't be different here. Do you think the current president is going to reach out to the former president or do you just think that it's not who he is?
ZAKARIA: Not who he is, Don. We saw it in the debate. As you said, it seems like, you know, a generation ago, but the debate only took place on Tuesday. And to my mind, it was instructive. You just saw the two basic characters of the two people. Take all of the substance away.
What you saw was on the one hand, Joe Biden, a decent guy, made an occasional stumble here and there, but decent, warm-hearted, big smile, big heart. And on the other side, you saw a bully, somebody who was nasty, scowling, snarling through the entire thing.
You know, sometimes, sometimes, Mike Deaver, Reagan's press guy used to say, turn the volume off, and you'll get the essential truth. And when you turn the volume off, that's what you saw. And it really showcases the two characters. That's who Trump is.
Look, maybe the illness will change him. Maybe -- and by the way, that would be good for the country if that happened, if he were to take this seriously and recognize -- you know, he's going to get the best health care in the world as he should.
But there are hundreds of thousands of Americans who are not getting that kind of health care, who live in fear of even going for a test.
One of the terrible things about this recession is the degree to which it has really hurt far more than most recessions do. The poor, the vulnerable, the weak, and those who lack access to health care. And this is one of the worst increases in inequality that has happened really in recorded history.
LEMON: Yeah.
ZAKARIA: And so, you know, if maybe that just having this illness gives him a little bit more empathy for all those people who are in a much, much, much more difficult situation than him, it would be useful.
LEMON: You said it would be good for the country. It would be good for him, as well. Thank you, Fareed. I appreciate it. We will see you soon. I will see you Sunday, as a matter of fact. Make sure you watch "Fareed Zakaria GPS." Sunday, 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. right here on CNN.
Breaking news tonight, we're learning about even more people within the president's orbit being diagnosed with coronavirus. And Chris Wallace of Fox News says the campaigns were on an honor system for tests before the debate. Chris Wallace was a debate moderator, by the way.
I'm going to speak with someone who was at the debate.
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[23:35:00]
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LEMON: Our breaking news tonight, President Trump being treated for coronavirus at Walter Reed Medical Center. And two GOP senators who attended a packed Rose Garden ceremony for Trump's Supreme Court nominee also revealing they have tested positive for COVID-19.
Let us bring in CNN's congressional correspondent Phil Mattingly and political analyst Carl Bernstein. Good evening, one and all, both of you.
So, Phil, breaking news tonight regarding North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis, what can you tell us about that? But hang on, one second. Phil, I have some breaking news for you. I think that you want to get to it, right, from the president of the United States. Do you have that?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do I personally? I do not have that, but I have seen Kayleigh McEnany's tweet about the latest update from the -- are you talking about the president's tweet?
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: No, the president's tweet. So I was going to get to you about Thom Tillis. But since it is up, I will just let you respond. The president says, it's going well, I think. Thank you all. Love. That's what the latest tweet at 11:31 p.m. this evening. Go on, Phil. What do you think of that?
MATTINGLY: That's how you conclude all your tweets as well --
LEMON: Yeah, love.
MATTINGLY: -- love, straight up. I think actually Kayleigh McEnany has a tweet out from the doctor, too, which we might get into a little bit. Quickly, though, I'll update you.
Senator Thom Tillis, a Republican from North Carolina who is at the Saturday's ceremony announcing the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court on Wednesday, met in person with Amy Coney Barrett, the nominee for the Supreme Court, announced tonight that he has tested positive. He is quarantining for 10 days.
Don, I will just tell you right now that Republican officials here on Capitol Hill are extremely unsettled about this moment in time, particularly because obviously you've seen the people in the president's inner circle that have tested positive.
You have seen journalists. You have also seen the senators and all of them appear to have been at the White House on Saturday at this event. Most of them are not wearing masks, although Senator Tillis was.
The big question right now on Capitol Hill, particularly given this massive Supreme Court nomination fight that is about to kick into gear, is how much bigger is this going to get?
One Republican official a short while ago said the blast radius right now feels like it's enormous. We don't actually know when it is going to be contained. There are just a lot of questions going forward now. There have been two Republican senators who have tested positive over the course of the last 12 hours.
LEMON: I am wondering how it is going to affect the timeline, because you got Mike Lee of Utah. He was seen at the announcement, if we can put that up, for Supreme Court justice nominee Amy Coney Barrett, hugging other guests on Saturday. Do you know how this is going to affect the timeline for the justice, if at all?
MATTINGLY: Here's the wild card right now. That is -- I would say there are two wild cards. One is the health of those two senators. Senator Lee said he has had mild symptoms, reminded of him of allergy. Senator Tillis said he has no symptoms.
[23:40:00]
MATTINGLY: Obviously, you have to wait and see how this progress now as they both tested positive. You talked about that Saturday event. You talked about the actual schedule of how this is going forward.
The committee that is going to have to consider this nomination, the hearings are supposed to start on October 12th, many of the committee members were at that ceremony. That is why Senator Tillis was there. That is why Senator Lee was there. A number of other senators that were there have since taken test and said they have tested negative. So there are really two wild cards here. One, do any more senators get sick? And two, what is the extent of how sick the senators that currently have it?
I will tell you right now, Don, we're being told both from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham as they're full steam ahead right now. They plan to hold the hearings starting on October 12th. They plan to hold the committee vote on October 22nd.
Right now, the target is still to have that vote, the final vote, before the election. But again, it's all contingent on the health of the senators. It is a very narrow margin from McConnell and Graham to work with here. They actually want to get this through.
LEMON: All right. Gentlemen, stand by, please. I have some breaking news. This is regarding the tweet from the president and also an update from the president's position. I want to get now to CNN's Jeremy Diamond. Jeremy is joining us now from Walter Reed Hospital. Take it away, Jeremy. What do you know?
DIAMOND: We have a significant update here from the physician to the president, Don, who is announcing in a memo that was just tweeted out by the White House press secretary that the president is now taking an additional drug and that is the antiviral remdesivir.
Don, this is one of those drugs that many of the health experts and epidemiologists have said is one of the most promising treatments for coronavirus. We learned earlier in the day that the president was already taking this antibody cocktail, which was an experimental but a promising experimental treatment.
Now, we're learning that the president is now taking this additional drug, remdesivir, an antiviral. So definitely, it is a significant development here.
In addition to announcing that the president is now on that drug, also trying to reassure the country at the same time and that is to say that he's explaining that he recommended the movement to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.
And he also writes this, this evening, I am happy to report the president is doing very well. He's not requiring any supplemental oxygen. And then he says, but in consultation with specialists, we have elected to initiate remdesivir therapy.
Dr. Conley, the physician to the president, also saying that the president has already completed his first dose and he also says that the president is resting comfortably.
We also know, Don, that the president himself tweeted, things are going well, I think. He says, thank you to all. And then he wrote "love" in all caps with three exclamation points.
Don, I'll let the doctors chew that part over. But obviously, the fact that the president is taking this additional drug is significant and we'll continue to monitor his condition over the next coming days.
LEMON: All right. Jeremy, I want you to stand by. I am going to read this. I am going to bring you back as needed. And also, get Carl Bernstein's reaction to this. So, Jeremy Diamond is just reporting now.
This is tweeted out by the White House and also sent out to the media from the White House physician. It says: I released the following information with the permission of President Donald J. Trump. If we can just put it back up because I know we have a full screen of it.
It says: This afternoon, in consultation with specialists from Walter Reed and Johns Hopkins University, I recommended movement of the president up to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for further monitoring. This evening, I am happy to report the president is doing very well. He is not requiring any supplemental oxygen. But in consultation with specialists, we have elected to initiate remdesivir therapy. He has completed his first dose and is resting comfortably.
We'll get a doctor on, hopefully, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta on, to talk about this, what this mean now that he is taking this additional therapy, remdesivir.
But I want to get your response, Carl. Having covered many administrations, in a time like this, one would think we would get an official statement or official word or someone coming out and talking to speak to us about the president instead of these paper statements and a tweet. It's great that we know this information, but we also need context and clarity about these paper statements or tweets.
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Well, yes. I'm not a doctor. None of us except Sanjay and others who are in the medical profession are qualified to talk about the meaning of this. And even they are largely in the dark because of exactly what they've been saying all day.
Look, when you talk about Donald Trump and evidence and fact, what we've had throughout his presidency and sadly throughout this episode, this horrible episode, it is coverup. This has persisted through the greatest national security crisis that we have faced in generations.
[23:45:00]
BERNSTEIN: What is being covered up? Donald Trump covered up the danger of the coronavirus in the first place. He has now gone to the hospital, left his aides behind in the White House to continue covering up by not making themselves, the medical doctors and those in the profession who are treating him, not making them available for the press and the American people to ask the questions that need to be answered.
This is a horrible situation that is destabilizing in itself.
LEMON: Yeah. BERNSTEIN: It is the kind of thing that happens in Russia. It is the kind of thing that happens in dictatorships. Why cannot we have access to a medical professional who is treating the president and will answer straightforwardly what is happening?
LEMON: We need transparency in this. I started this broadcast this evening at the top of the 10:00 hour. I said as much. The American people deserve to know, they need to know. Let's bring in a doctor. Carl, I want you to stand by. Jeremy, stand by, and also the others.
Let us bring in Dr. Leana Wen. Dr. Wen, I am just going to read one line from this and you tell me what you think of it. But in consultation -- they said he is not requiring any supplemental oxygen. But in consultation with specialist, we hve elected to initiate remdesivir therapy. Talk to me about that, doctor.
LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: So I am agreeing with what everybody is saying that we need more transparency than this. It's good that President Trump is not requiring supplemental oxygen at this time. But we don't know what his vital signs are. We don't know what his pulse oximetry is currently showing.
And remdesivir is a medication, an antiviral medication that has been shown to be effective in patients who are on supplemental oxygen. And it shows that the studies done so far showed that it can reduce the time of hospitalization, can speed up recovery in patients who are severely ill or moderately to severely ill.
I think there are just so many missing pieces that I am struggling to make sense of, frankly, Don. Part of it is the timeline because typically, it takes between five to seven days from when you're exposed to when you develop symptoms, then another five to eight days between when you start showing symptoms to when you start showing severe symptoms like shortness of breath.
And then if you end up in ICU, that is 10 to 12 days from when you start showing symptoms. So all of this is to say, if we just found out, and you and I were talking less than 24 hours ago about the president testing positive, within 24 hours, somehow it's gotten to this point --
LEMON: Right.
WEN: -- when usually it takes two weeks, something isn't really making sense. We need a better explanation from the physicians about what is going on.
LEMON: You're absolutely right. Thank you, doctor. I want to bring in now CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical correspondent. So Dr. Gupta, let me just read this again and get you -- I'm not sure if you have it in your e-mail, this afternoon, in consultation with specialists from Walter Reed and Johns Hopkins University, I recommended -- and I think this is important. I want to ask you about it -- I recommended movement of the president up to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for further monitoring. This evening, I'm happy to report that the president is doing very well. He is not requiring any supplemental oxygen. But in consultation with specialists, we have elected to initiate remdesivir therapy. He has completed his first dose and is resting comfortably.
The line I want to ask you about, consultations with specialists in Walter Reed and Johns Hopkins, I recommended movement of the president up to Walter Reed for further monitoring. We need some clarification as to why. And then we can talk about remdesivir. Don't you think we need to know a bit more to understand what is happening with the president's health?
GUPTA: Yeah, no question about it. I mean, these letters have always been so opaque, Don. Going back to even a few years ago, there's always -- just having reported on this for so long, there are always the sort of breadcrumbs that are layered out. They are never fully transparent. You have to sort of read between the lines.
He's going there for monitoring. This makes it sound somewhat trivial. Earlier, we knew that they said he was going to go there for at least several days. It's obviously a significant move to move the president to the hospital, going by Marine One like that.
We'll get more details on that part of it. But I think your instincts and certainly all the people that we've been talking to, your instincts are right because this idea that certainly there's a cautionary sort of principle that is being applied here, that's to be expected. He's the president. They want to make sure he's in a place where he can get the care that he needs.
But there was a level of concern today that grew seemingly throughout the day, from doing well to mild symptoms, to fever to moderate symptoms, to we need to go to Walter Reed.
[23:50:03]
GUPTA: So, I imagine some of those details may be forthcoming. Although, as you know, Don, sometimes we never hear fully, like even going back to November, 2019, the last time he was at Walter Reed, we still haven't gotten all the details about that.
But you're right, I think there is a little bit more going on here than this letter would suggests, you know, just some quick monitoring.
LEMON: And what about remdesivir? They started -- he is not requiring any supplemental oxygen, but in consultation with specialists, we have elected to initiate remdesivir therapy. Go on, doctor.
GUPTA: So, this is -- this is an antiviral medication. You know, we first started reporting about remdesivir a long time ago when it was being trialled for Ebola. It's a medication that basically makes it -- inhibits the virus's ability to replicate within the body.
I think Leana was just mentioning, if you are going to give it, typically, you want to give it early because it can sort of keep the virus from replicating to the point where it starts to overwhelm the body. We don't know really the overall impact and mortality is not clear, but it does seem to reduce the symptoms, the duration of symptoms.
So, if someone was going to have 15 days-worth of symptoms, I think, data right in front of me, it will reduce it to 11 days. It wasn't wildly significant benefit, but there was benefit from remdesivir, and it was significant enough to get an emergency-use authorization.
Which you remember, last hour, Don, we were talking about the fact that the other medication that he got today, these monoclonal antibodies, very promising, but very early. That doesn't even have emergency-use authorization.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
GUPTA: So you get the sense, they're trying a little bit of a kitchen- sink, sort of, mentality. Let's just try a bunch of different things with the president.
LEMON: That's what I was going to ask you. Is there anything out of the ordinary here or do you think this is normal? You know, in this situation, with a novel virus, there is no normal. Does anything concern you in my reading of this memorandum?
GUPTA: Well, you know, I think that the idea that they're saying, look, he's doing fine, which it sounds like maybe he is, he is not requiring supplemental oxygen, but then they are trying all these other therapies as well, the remdesivir, typically, you give it to people who have shown some decrease in oxygenation.
He doesn't -- he is not requiring supplemental oxygen, so I'm not sure he would have met the criteria exactly. Part of the reason I am hesitating here, Don, a little bit is that everything is a little different when it's the president.
You know, people may try different things. It sounds like -- sometimes, you suffer from too many opinions. Everybody in the world, all of a sudden, is weighing in with their opinion on the president. He should definitely get this medication. Definitely not get that medication, whatever it may be. And I'm sure Sean Conley is trying to navigate his way through all that.
I am not that -- knowing that he is on remdesivir doesn't make me think, oh, that's a bad sign or anything. It is typically a medication that you do -- if you are going to give it, you want to give early because that's when it's probably going to have the most impact.
Again, it's typically given to somebody who's had some need for supplemental oxygen, but they say he doesn't need supplemental oxygen. So there's some inconsistencies here, but I don't look at that and say this is a grave sign or some concerning sign.
LEMON: Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Let's bring back Carl Bernstein and Joe Allen joins us now, as well. So, you know, Carl, it's interesting. You heard what Dr. Gupta said. That it seems they are trying this kitchen-sink approach. Neither of us are doctors, but the question is, where is the transparency in all of this? We need -- the American people deserve transparency.
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. There's no question about it in terms of the stability of our country. And also how foreign countries are looking at us and how they are going to take action in terms of is there a threat to those countries by a hostile power that might come and try to take advantage of us during this terrible period?
Transparency is always the answer. But we got to ask ourselves, why isn't there transparency. And, of course, it always comes back to the same question with Donald Trump, even at this terrible moment with his hospitalization. It comes back to --
LEMON: Carl, I need to interrupt you because I want to get -- I want to get some breaking news in. We are getting some information now that Trump's campaign manager, Bill Stepien, has now tested positive for the coronavirus. So we've got him. We've got Hope Hicks. And we have the first lady. We've got the president. We've got Kellyanne Conway. And we have senators.
[23:55:00]
BERNSTEIN: We have a government in quarantine. That's really what we are talking about now. We now have a government in quarantine and part of the need for information is to trace back where this outbreak, where this super spread began. And increasingly, we know, apparently, that it goes back to that ceremony, which the new appointed justice --
LEMON: Carl, let me talk to Joe Allen about that because Joe is an assistant professor of exposure assessment science at Harvard.
BERNSTEIN: I'm not.
LEMON: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: And the author of "Healthy Buildings." We have had him on before. So, you saw that -- I guess, that event, it looks like, was a super spreader event. Talk to us about the spread of this virus, especially in this sort of situation. They were outside. And then, we're told there were smaller events inside. We've got the president's campaign manager, we've got Kellyanne Conway, we've got Hope Hicks, and the president and the first lady. Go on, Joe.
JOE ALLEN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF EXPOSURE ASSESSMENT SCIENCE, HARVARD: Yeah, Don. Thanks for having me on. That is exactly right. I think a lot of attention is starting to be paid to this Barrett reception last week. It certainly fits in the incubation period.
You have listed many people who are now tested positive, just a new announcement just right now. We also have the president of Notre Dame who was there. Three journalists were present, a White House aide.
And I think many people think of that scene and they remember the picture of the outdoor reception. But the reality is there was also indoor reception at the same time. They have been described as unencumbered, tightly packed and, of course, they weren't wearing masks.
So, it has all recipe, all the making of a super spreader event. And that's what it's starting to look like with all these positive cases. I'm certain we will see more in the coming days from people who were at that event.
LEMON: Well, we also had -- I've been saying this, if you can talk about it, Joe, because the president's family was on that plane, as well. You saw Jared Kushner. He is married to the president's daughter. My concern is for them, as well, as well as their children.
ALLEN: I share your concern entirely. And Don, you and I spoke about this back in April, in April, the need for a layered-defense approach. And I think this whole episode is speaking to the failure of the White House to take this seriously.
They relied on one control measure, testing. It's an imperfect measure. It can be good but not in and of itself. There is no one strategy in and of itself that will work. They should have been practicing distancing and masking.
So we need these redundancies. We have redundancies in our military. We have redundancies with physical security. Why didn't the White House have redundancy in terms of control measures for this virus? And now that it's in the White House gates, it's too late. It is already spreading throughout our government.
LEMON: Yeah. Listen. Thank you, both. I would not be surprised if there are others, especially the folks who we saw there, originally, getting onto Marine One and then to Air Force One, which includes Jared Kushner, folks who were with Hope Hicks. We hope that that doesn't happen but it would not be surprising at this point considering the number of people who have come out and then possibly maybe has even spread further into their families.
Thank you very much, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Thanks for watching, everyone. Our live coverage continues with Chris Cuomo.
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