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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Risking Everyone's Health; Joe Biden Says He'll Follow The Experts; White House Not Transparent With Information; Weakness Not Allowed In Trump Family. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 05, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I just don't know. I'll be honest, I watch it on real-time, I study it, but I don't understand it. But I'll try you someone who will try to make sense of it, D. Lemon right now on "CNN TONIGHT." There he is.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I made sense of it from the very beginning when it was announced that he had COVID and then, well, actually the part where he was going to the hospital. It's not that hard to figure out. Do tell. I don't want to get in trouble but I'm just -- I have no other way --

CUOMO: Too late.

LEMON: I got to be honest. It was surprising to me that when this happened a lot of people said I don't believe it. I don't believe it. I don't believe he has COVID. I think he's faking it. I think he's going to do whatever he can to try to win the presidency. I am, you know, I'm not that cynical. I'm a cynic but I'm not that cynical.

CUOMO: There is also no proof of him faking it.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And the opposite seems to have the proponents of the --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And there is no proof of -- there is no proof of any of it because he won't let the doctors give the information that the American people need to know. So, listen, I'm not saying that. But I was just surprised that in this moment, this very serious moment, this crisis, that so few people had faith in this president that this president was actually telling the truth about his health and where this country is in this moment.

And I had no doubt about this. The health thing that's fine. I believe he has COVID. I don't know as far as his symptoms and all that, you can better speak to that but I knew he would take this moment of tragedy and try to turn it into a spectacle as you said as a reality TV show type moment that he would play, that he would push on to the people of America in order to win re-election. That he would use all the trappings of the office in order to get people to -- in order to own the news cycle.

In order to get people to see people to see him as strong and that he is the president. He is going to use Marine One, he is going to use the military, he is going to use the flags. He's going to go waving around in some sort of one-man parade victory lap. That he's -- I had no doubt on Friday he would do all of those things.

And so, when all of those things happened quite honestly, I don't know if this is sad or bad or good I was not shocked. I am not shocked. I am not outraged. I actually just feel sorry. I feel pity for us as the American people especially the people who are being subject to it having to watch it on the news when there are things.

The president walking off of a helicopter and walking up a flight of stairs. What is the value in that? How about how are you going to fix the economy? How about how are you going to fix the healthcare system? How about all of those things Joe Biden talked about in a town hall tonight of substance that get drowned out of the news cycle because we're paying attention to a spectacle?

That has no basis in reality. That has no value. Nothing of substance is going to help the American people except it's great to look at on TV because you see the White House, the flags, you see the president giving the -- you know, saluting. You see Marine One flying and him standing.

What value is that except its eye candy? And why are we falling for it? When we have an election that's less than a month away? That's what I'm going to talk about. It is outrageous. I am -- I'm not -- I'm not outraged, I'm not whatever. I expected it. It is just the way it is.

But you know we have an election coming up. And people need to know what to do with their lives if they'll have a job, if they're going to be able to send their kids back to school. If they're going to -- people -- I don't think anyone out there is as gullible as to think that if you happen to contract COVID that you're going to have the army of doctors that this president has had, the experimental treatment. No one is going to be knocking on your door to get you experimental treatment.

CUOMO: Two.

LEMON: No one is going to be picking you up from your house, too. No one is going to be picking you up from your house in a helicopter to take you to the doctor, the best doctors in the world, and no one is going to be joking with your family about, ha, ha, how great you're doing.

I know that when I go to deal with family members and friends when they are in serious situations at the -- with the -- in the hospital, you know what they come out and do? I need to speak. OK. So, family, I need to talk with you. Let's go over here and have a talk. And I'm going to be, listen. This is what I need to say about this is happening. The good news is this. The bad news is that. But I'm going to give it to you straight. Instead what we got was, ha, ha, he's happy, and the guy says he's got

a lot of work to do and that he's signing things with -- I couldn't even watch this weekend because I'm like, and people were texting and every time they saw me like, can you believe this? And I'm like, yes. I can believe it. Why are you surprised?

[2:04:57]

He has showed us who he is for decades before he even became president when he was to fake his own fake media person, press person, publicity person. When he pretended to be a great businessman on a reality TV show that loved to fire people when in reality, he is a terrible businessman and hates to fire people when in reality he is a terrible businessman and hates to fire people and is handing it off to someone else.

He is pretending to be president and we are falling for it. That is the sad tragedy in all of this that he has taken an American -- this is what I just wrote in my office. He has taken an American tragedy and turned it into a reality show travesty. That's what he has done. And we have to stop falling for it and pay attention to what is real and not just what looks great on television because it's a show. That's it.

CUOMO: One, you better not use any of that video on the show. two, because I'll be watching. Now, you better not do it, I'll blow you up on Twitter.

LEMON: Yes? I needed to make a point.

CUOMO: No, no. Don't you use that video. If it's not worth people seeing you better not show it even with the luxury of being on at 10 o'clock at night. Two, you have to counter what is nonfactual about something that is a deadly pandemic especially when it comes out of the mouth of the president. So, I do think I have a more of a holistic approach but I understand where you're coming from and I can't wait to hear it in real time.

LEMON: All right. Well, I'm going to go.

CUOMO: Please do.

LEMON: And I'm going to talk about it.

CUOMO: It's your show.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

This is CNN TONIGHT, and I'm Don Lemon.

So, I got, again, I have to be careful here because again I'm not upset. I'm not shocked. I'm not -- it's just that I feel that bad you guys are being played for suckers. That's how I really feel, sad, because it has happened again. OK?

I don't even know if I'm going to read everything that's in this -- that I've written in this teleprompter because it's just so emotional. This is another reality show stunt even when he is sick with a deadly contagious disease and receiving the best wishes. That's not what I want to say. This is what I want to say. The same thing I wrote.

This has happened again. It is the same old stunt where this president waits, just before the evening news, to make an appearance. Then he says something stupid. Then he says something outrageous. Then he says something controversial. And then he gets coverage on the evening news and he gets coverage throughout primetime and that is all we talk about.

Because quite frankly for me, it is --it's easy. It's the easy way to do this. We fall for the spectacle. On Friday, here's the spectacle on Friday. Reporters at Marine One front lawn of the White House. Every network carrying it live. OK? That's what happened. On the front lawn of the White House everyone carrying it live with the words awaiting President Trump to go to the hospital.

That's what we were doing, waiting President Trump. Now who knows what his decision was? But I know in his mind that he was like this is going to look great on TV. How do I fix this? How do I spin this? Then he walks out masked up for the first time on Marine One. When have you ever seen him walk out to Marine One with a mask on? Never, ever.

You know what that was? That was to erase those pictures from the last time we saw him walking on to Marine One with Hope Hicks and Dan Scavino, and Jared Kushner and Stephen Miller and his body man. None of them wearing a mask.

But he thinks because he walks out of the White House on Friday with a mask on going to Marine One that that is going to negate and erase that. Are you going to fall for that? Because it shouldn't, because that's how he and those people got in trouble in the first place.

You cannot wish ill on these people that they recover and have a degree, a degree of sympathy for them but you can also still at the same time tell the truth about their recklessness. And about that old phrase reaping what you sow. You stand outside in a snowstorm you might get pneumonia.

If you tell people, that a -- this is somehow a hoax or that masks don't work or that you don't follow the scientists or herd immunity and all those things, if you tell people that and then all of the people around you make excuses for it, and try to make it right, then why are you surprised when there is an outbreak at the White House and in the Oval Office? Why would you even be surprised by that? It is science. Of course, it is going to happen. Of course, it is going to happen.

[22:10:05]

I'm not surprised. I'm not shocked. But aren't you furious in some way to be used that way? That this president has turned this tragedy, that he has made it all about himself rather than about you? That he can survive this and that he is somehow bigger and stronger than -- because that's the talking points. And where did those talking points come from that you hear on conservative media? Straight from him.

Shouldn't you be -- listen, I'm not upset. I am just pointing out the obvious because I sit here every night and I do this. That we let ourselves as a nation be used by this man who has been showing us who he is for decades?

Here's the question. Why do we all keep falling for the COVID-19 political celebrity apprentice where the president pretends to be the president doing drive byes in an SUV, signing blank pieces of paper with a sharpie. Why?

As I said, we have an election that's less than a month away. Instead of talking about policy like Joe Biden did in the town hall tonight we're talking about the show that Trump put on that has no basis and no importance to your life or anyone who has been affected or lost a loved one to COVID-19. Here is a sound bite.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president of the United States, I would make a federal mandate on federal property, federal buildings. You must wear a mask, period. And you must be socially distanced, number one.

Number two, I would make sure we move very rapidly to get testing available to everyone that's quickly available so people can in fact be in a position where they can open their businesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Why aren't we talking about that? I don't care if he salutes someone from the balcony of the White House. I want to know why I lost two close friends from COVID. That's what I want to know. Why I have a co-worker on the air just before me who is a dear friend who I love, why was he sick and has long haul syndrome? That's what I want to know. How do we fix that?

We need to talk about being as we are in the middle of a pandemic and what happens to the healthcare system here, what happens to the healthcare of millions of sick Americans with preexisting conditions?

People don't have access to the full squad of doctors or tons of experimental treatments. This president is trying to overturn Obamacare. He is trying to get rid of the very thing that helps people with preexisting conditions with no plan other than this is my healthcare outlook.

Joe Biden talks about that. We need to be talking about how to bring jobs back to tens of millions of people who are out of work. Like Joe Biden did tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Your generation has been really, really put behind the 8-ball. You get all these degrees. You end up with all this debt. And you are in a position where you can't get a job because no one is hiring. Or if they're hiring, they're hiring at very low wages. And so, what we have to do is make sure that you get the opportunity.

That's why I'm going to eliminate a lot of your student debt if you in fact are -- if you come from a family less than 125 grand and you went to a public university. I'm going to make sure that everybody in this generation gets $10,000 knocked off of their student debt as we try to get out of this God-awful pandemic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: How do young people get out of the student debt? How do young people start once again to start owning property and homes in this country that like was afforded to my parents? And even to me? People don't make livable wages anymore. Fifteen dollars an hour?

When people buy, you have to struggle to be able to buy a home with $15 an hour. That's what Biden talked about. That's what this president should be talking about instead of fixing his face and his hands to salute. Salute what? What are you saluting? Are you -- 200,000, 210,000 people who have died? Dead people? Is that what are salute -- what are you saluting?

We have to talk about President Trump and what he did tonight. We do because he is a small man on a big stage.

[22:14:59]

You saw him take off his mask. Knowing he is contagious. Saluting. That's a big act. So, is he looking a bit winded or is he winded? Do you know? Because of the credibility of this -- it is his own doing and his administration's own doing.

He looked winded when he climbed the stairs. OK. How do we know that? We don't know. We don't know. He is probably winded from climbing the stairs. I get winded climbing the stairs. We're going to speculate from a video of him climbing the stairs? I ran to the studio tonight from my office because I was late. Guess what? I was winded.

Let's call it what it is, people. That does not mean I wish the president any ill will. I can still call out what he is doing and hope that he gets better. You can do both of those things. As a matter of fact, that is my job. That is protected in the Constitution under the First Amendment. Freedom of the press. So, I am pointing out to you the obvious. I am calling what it is. This is a show. It is deranged.

And if you had any doubt he is performing, playing the part -- playing the part of a president, who can't be brought down by the virus, there is this. The president actually reshooting his entrance into the White House not wearing a mask for any, for any of it, despite the presence of a crew of at least four people.

This White House is no different with the president infected with the virus after recklessly ignoring the CDC's guidelines, spreading the virus all around. And now they are covering it up. Refusing to say when the president's last negative test was. Even though they have claimed again and again that he can ignore his own CDC's guidelines because he is tested regularly. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What day and time did you find out that Hope Hicks had tested positive and did you sit on it until after the president went out to his fundraiser in New Jersey?

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Actually, as we look at this, I'm not going to get into the TikTok.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctor, what was the date of the president's last negative test?

SEAN CONLEY, WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: I'm not going to get into all of the testing going back. But he, and all the staff routinely are tested.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you answer the question as to when the president's last negative test was?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, as I said earlier, I'm not part of the White House medical unit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was he tested on Tuesday before he went to the debate, and then was he tested on Thursday morning before he went to New Jersey fundraiser?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, I'm not going to give you a detail read out with timestamps that every time the president is tested. He is tested regularly and the first positive test he received was after his return from Bedminster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was he tested between Wednesday night and the time he went to New Jersey.

MCENANY: Again, I'm not giving a detailed read out of his testing but safe to say his first positive test was upon return or at least after Bedminster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us please on testing, can you tell us when he had his last negative test? Was it Thursday, was it Wednesday? Do you remember when he had his last negative test?

CONLEY: I don't want to go backwards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was his last negative test and what was his viral load?

CONLEY: I know everyone wants that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we've been exposed.

CONLEY: Yes. I don't -- I don't have his viral load. Those are some of the diagnostics that we're sending out that will really tell us when it's safe for him to get back out and around people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: I guess you shouldn't have -- I actually expected the doctor to be more candid and more forthcoming. But did I expect any of the other people there to tell me the truth? No. Jason, I know you and when I see you hi, hello, it's all well and good but I don't expect Jason Miller to come on television and tell you the truth about this president. I expected him to spin.

Sadly, did I expect Kayleigh McEnany who by the way has tested positive for COVID-19 to tell you the truth? No, she should as the press secretary. The face for the administration at least when it comes to what goes out in the media. Did I expect her to tell you the truth? Sadly, no.

So, I don't even know what any of that means but I did expect the doctor to be more forthcoming. It didn't happen. And guess what? It is not going to happen. That's where we are right now. So, do you remember, this is what, you know, I was talking to some people today, those of us old enough to live through the HIV crisis.

[22:19:58]

People in the beginning of the HIV crisis did not -- many of them did not want to take precautions what they needed to do. They did not want to protect themselves, wear condoms and all of that.

When everybody got onboard, and they started doing it, the transmission rates went down. They also put into practice laws in certain places that people would face consequences if they knowingly or unknowingly exposed someone to the virus.

This administration, these folks are exposing people to the virus, recklessly, without abandon. Not caring. What are their consequences? The consequences of exposing people knowingly to a potentially deadly virus? What are the consequences? Are they above the law?

That is the environment that they have created in this country because they don't believe in science. Or they -- or they -- actually they do believe in science but they are telling people because they want you to support this president that the science says something other than what it says.

And those people are falling for it and yelling at people in grocery stores and then, you know, in the Costco and then the Target and whatever wherever they go that their personal liberties are being -- my mother who loves Costco, used to go almost every day, if some jerk exposed my mother to COVID because they didn't want to wear a mask I would want to kill them. That is the God's honest truth. I would be so furious.

But, yet, your personal liberties are being taken away because you have to put on this little piece of material. Give me a break. And then comparing it, someone compared it to slavery because they were put on lockdown and that we had to quarantine. People in slavery wish that they had curb side service at Applebee's.

The -- you guys are ridiculous. So what does this president do when he gets back after all of that, the doctor saying this and everybody saying and he walks through the mask, he rips off his mask to say -- what does he say to a close friend of mine, to the family of a very close friend I was speaking to all weekend whose father has been in a New York hospital intensive care unit for 200 days. I see you Albert and I love you and your dad whose dad, by the way, is a Trump supporter. He's COVID-19, supportive of the president.

But all he heard from this president and from Fox News was that this virus was no big deal. That it was just going to disappear, nothing to worry about. It'll go away when it's warm and it will be gone by Easter.

Two hundred days in ICU. And so, he, like thousands of other Americans who are severely stricken with this disease, thousands more who have died, I like to say who are dead because when you are dead, that has a much more sobering effect than those who have died, dead, no longer here. We'll never see them again.

Thousands of people who believe the president didn't take the precaution of staying home or wearing a mask. My friend's father continues to fight for his life confined to his bed and to a machine for 200 days in an ICU. And then this president goes into the hospital on Friday, leaves, does a drive by. And then comes home on a helicopter tonight and then says it's all OK.

My friend's dad is not having a photo op outside of his house tonight. He is not taking off this mask. He is not flashing a thumbs up. What does this president, what do you say, Mr. President to my friend Albert's family? What do you say to the families of more than 210,000 Americans, dead Americans?

[22:24:58]

Memorialized by display of 20,000 empty black chairs just south of the White House each representing 10 Americans who have died of COVID-19. What do you say to their families? So sadly, maybe I should be. I don't know. I am not surprised by this president. Not even really shocked. What we should be shocked by is what I said before that he has turned an American tragedy into a made for TV trajesty (Ph) -- travesty.

This is not the Trump show people. This is real life where 210,000 people are dead from a disease that he said was a Democratic hoax. Do you know what the real hoax is? That he is making this about himself and not about the American people who continued to suffer.

There is a real chance someone will die because they became infected in the White House at super spreader events of 2020. And 210,000 are already dead and none of it had to happen. You should be oo furious. You should be. I'll see you on the other side of the break.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump back at the White House tonight after spending just three days at Walter Reed Medical Center still downplaying COVID- 19 even though his own doctors warn that he is not out of the woods yet.

Sanjay Gupta is here. He is our chief medical correspondent and also our White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, who both of them I watched all weekend. You guys need some sleep but I'm glad you're on this program.

Good evening. Dr. Gupta, let me start with you. The president is a walking COVID hot spot. On really strong medication including steroids and he is acting as if he has recovered. Is he not an active danger to himself and others with this behavior?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Don, I am really surprised he is out of the hospital. I mean, just the act of transporting him, somebody who should be in isolation because he has a known contagious potentially deadly disease. I mean, you know, he -- odds are very much on the side that he'll get through this, but in the interim to your point, Don, he could potentially infect others.

So, he also, you know, he is 74 years old. He has these preexisting conditions. He is at least from what the doctors have told us and there wasn't a lot that they told us but they did say that he needed supplemental oxygen. That he is on all these medications as you mentioned.

So, it's worrisome when you look at the clinical course of the disease. It's usually, you know, sort of, day seven or so when the inflammation in the body is so significant that people may start to have significant illness again. They can look fine for a period of days and then have a real decline. So, yes, I don't think the decision for him to be out of the hospital, Don, was a medical one.

LEMON: Yes. You don't.

GUPTA: No, no.

LEMON: Talk to me more about that.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, I think if you listen to even what the doctors say, the doctors say, look, he is not out of the woods yet. We are in unchartered territory. He is on three different investigational drugs. Not even approved to have only authorized it's time to go home.

I mean, that sequence of events doesn't really make a lot of sense. Part of the reason he went to the hospital I think on Friday was, you know, they say that they were concerned about him but also wanted him in a place where he had lots of specialists, you had good proximity to an intensive care unit. You could get advanced imaging.

I mean, as unsettling as it was to see the President of the United States essentially medevacked from the South Lawn of the White House it was still one of those things where you thought OK, well, at least he will be in a place where he's going to get excellent care. If he is not out of the woods yet why move him out of that place? I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Why did they let him go, doctor?

GUPTA: I mean, that's not a typical residence --

LEMON: Did they have a choice? If he says look, I'm getting out of here, do they have to go along with it? Is that how it works? I'm not a doctor. I really don't know.

GUPTA: You know, I mean, I have never taken care of a president. But you know, typically if you tell patients that they should stay and they want to go, I mean, they can, they often time will sign these forms that are called AMA forms, against medical advice forms and they can go.

It doesn't sound like that was the case here because the doctors even though they telegraphed I think very clearly in the press briefing that there is still concern people may not have heard that but we got to read between the lines nowadays. They were telegraphing that there are still concerns. But despite that they said it's OK for him to go.

So, I am sure they did not get in his way at all, Don. But I can tell you, talk to any, any doctor really other than the ones who were giving that press briefing and they'll tell you look, there is a lot of concern with someone like him being out. Hopefully he does great. Maybe he will. You know, chances are on his side. But if you are going to be very, very responsible medically he'd still be in the hospital.

LEMON: Kaitlan, thank you for standing by patiently as Dr. Gupta and I sit here and have a conversation as if you're not here. But listen. When was the president's last COVID test? I mean, why are they trying to cover it up? I played the sound bites of people asking over and over and no clear answer.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No. They won't tell us. And his doctor has refused to do so three times. And Don, it's not clear exactly why neither the doctor nor the political aides won't tell us unless there is a reason they don't want to tell us.

Because if you go off what the White House has been saying for the last several months the president is the most tested man in America and he's tested every single day. Well, if that was the case then they could easily say his last negative test was on Thursday before he went to the fundraiser in New Jersey or it was Wednesday or Tuesday.

[22:34:58]

They cannot say any day this week or last week that the president actually got that test. And what was really stunning that his doctor conceded today, is that he said that they actually do not have a discussion about whether or not the president could potentially have exposure to coronavirus after they knew that Hope Hicks tested positive until hours later when he got back from New Jersey.

It was after he returned, I believe he got back to the White House at 6 p.m. that night and that's when Dr. Conley says they sat down and asked the president if he had any symptoms. That's at least six hours after it was known that Hope Hicks had tested positive.

And instead of testing the president immediately before he was around the staff on Air Force One, the staff on Marine One the staff in the motorcade and the people and the supporters at that fundraiser they just waited to test the president. So, it does make you question why they would do that because that's certainly wouldn't the case for any other person and that was the case for the president.

LEMON: Well hopefully we get some more answers. Thank you both. I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll be seeing you both soon considering how much news has come out of this thing with the president. Thank you so much.

The president back in the White House tonight showing a total disregard for human life by putting everyone around him in danger. His niece and psychologist Mary Trump know what is behind all of this. She is next.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, President Trump is back at the White House tonight where he risks infecting more people with the deadly contagious, contagious virus that he is walking around carrying right now.

So, let's discuss now. Mary Trump is here. She is the president's niece and she is the author of "Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man." It's good to have you on. Thank you for doing this.

MARY TRUMP, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NIECE: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Doing OK, I hope.

M. TRUMP: Yes.

LEMON: So, let me -- so help me understand this. I think I got it but you know, you're much closer to him. So, this president steam rolls his doctors into letting him return to the White House where he immediately rips off his mask, starts walking around posing for propaganda videos. As a psychologist and as his niece how would you characterize this behavior?

M. TRUMP: Totally in keeping with what I understand the kind of person he is. In some respects, it is as if he doesn't have a choice. This is entirely my grandfather's doing. Because in my family you were not allowed to display weakness and being sick was considered weakness.

By the same token he subscribed to the doctrine of the power of positive thinking so you could never admit that there was anything wrong. So, it makes perfect sense to me that Donald no matter how sick he may or may not be would pull this kind of stunt, and in a display of extraordinary weakness in my view attempt to convince the American people that he is actually strong. LEMON: Interesting. I mean, it sounds like Dale Carnegie which became

Norman Vincent Peale which became the secret which became that it's kind of a -- is that what's at --

M. TRUMP: Yes.

LEMON: -- is that what's at play here? That he -- that he can positively think his way out of all of this?

M. TRUMP: He believes he can. He absolutely believes he can. That's why he is no longer at Walter Reed although let's be clear. He went from one world class medical facility to another.

LEMON: To another. Yes.

M. TRUMP: There is a quite well stocked facility in the White House that will take excellent care of him. So, let's not pretend that he is just going home. He is going to the White House to get, to continue to get the most excellent medical care that is not available to 99 percent of Americans and he is going to, as you say continue to infect other people including the people who work for him.

LEMON: And speaking of what you talked about this positivity thing you call it a culture of toxic positivity within the Trump family.

M. TRUMP: Yes.

LEMON: What does that mean? Fred Trump who is your grandfather he's dead. That's where -- that's where you believe it filtered on. But go on.

M. TRUMP: Yes. Because I think Norman Vincent Peale the minister who wrote the book "The Power of Positive Thinking" was influential with my grandfather in the sense that Peale's philosophy, if you want to call it that, fit in perfectly with my grandfather's way of dealing with the world. Everything was always great. Everything was fantastic. Everything was the best.

And when you take it to the extreme that my grandfather did it crowds out the ability to feel any other emotions. Like nothing else is acceptable. And that's a very dangerous environment in which to grow up because it stunts your ability to experience the entire range of human emotion.

LEMON: Let's talk about the family. Don Jr., Ivanka, Eric, they've all tested positive for now. You know, it's all --

M. TRUMP: Positive?

LEMON: Negative. Excuse me.

M. TRUMP: OK.

LEMON: Negative. Negative.

M. TRUMP: That was a bit news. LEMON: That was my bad. All tested negative. But they were at last week's debate not wearing masks. They had been around him. They could have been exposed. How do you think they're all taking this right now?

M. TRUMP: I honestly don't know. I imagine they're trying to figure out how to --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But pardon me, Mary, but just look at the -- I just cannot believe the entitlement and the -- can we put those pictures back up -- of them just sitting there with no masks on.

[22:45:08]

M. TRUMP: Right.

LEMON: Like what --

M. TRUMP: Well, I agree with you the entitlement is breathtaking. But let's take a step back for a second and realize that these are adult human beings who are choosing to put not only other people but themselves and their children if they are going home to children at incredible risk for what exactly? That's my question. For what?

My guess is that my cousins' relationship with their father is entirely transactional and I'm also certain that it's conditional just as my grandfather's relationship with his children was. But there should be a line you're not willing to cross. Right?

So, that's -- I'm not surprised that they don't care about the people around them who aren't related to them. It is a bit shocking to me that they seem to be perfectly willing to put themselves and their own families at risk.

LEMON: But what is it, Mary, about this president that he is willing to put so many people at risk of a very dangerous and deadly virus? What is that?

M. TRUMP: He doesn't care. He has no empathy for other people. And we've seen this in the last few days. He is willing to lie to the American people and put who knows how many millions of them at risk by pretending that the coronavirus is not something to be afraid of when it is. And it has killed in excess of 210,000 people because of his inaction, his willful inaction. In order to make himself look like a tough guy. That's -- that's dangerous. That's an understatement. But you know, here we are.

LEMON: Dangerous. Maniacal is maybe a better word. But I mean, it's unbelievable.

M. TRUMP: And let's be honest. It's mass murder because he could have done something. You know, when between 60 percent and 90 percent of the people who are dead should not have been because the policies that could have mitigated this disaster were not put in place even though he had all of the facts he needed, that is intentional. And it's so insulting for him to say that he's just now learning about

COVID-19 because it's affecting him. I am not entirely sure why anybody in the Republican Party is able to stand for this anymore.

LEMON: Mary Trump, thank you so much. You be safe.

M. TRUMP: You too. Thanks.

LEMON: Joe Biden testing negative for the virus today and hitting the campaign trail, sending a message that's pretty much the opposite of the presidents'.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Glad to see the president speaking. I mean, recording videos over the weekend. Now that he is busy tweeting campaign messages, I would ask him to do this. Listen to the scientists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:50:00]

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LEMON: Joe Biden on a campaign trail in Miami today talking about following the science and the advice of experts.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is covering the Biden campaign and she joins us now. Arlette, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.

So, while in Florida campaigning Joe Biden also did a town hall where he was asked if the -- if he thought the president was responsible for contracting coronavirus. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: He contracts the virus by essentially saying masks don't matter. Social distancing doesn't matter. I think is responsible for what happens to them.

I view wearing this mask not so much protecting me but as a patriotic responsibility. All the tough guys say I'm not wearing a mask. I'm not afraid. Well, be afraid for your husband, your wife, your son, your daughter, your neighbor, your co-worker. That's who you're protecting having this mask on. It should be viewed as a patriotic duty to protect those around you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He is sending a message of what his presidency would look like, isn't he, following the science and the advice of experts.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. That's right, Don. You know, Joe Biden from the start has said that as he moves forward with campaigning and if he were to become president and govern that he would be listening to the advice of medical experts and scientific experts when it comes to the coronavirus and ultimately, he believes that the president has failed in this.

You know, you heard him issue that call to President Trump to support mask wearing. And today as the president arrived back at the White House one of the first thing we saw him do was remove his mask. Joe Biden just a short while ago actually tweeted a video comparing the two of them President Trump on one side removing that mask and Joe Biden putting on that mask.

You have seen him when he is out there on the campaign trail. Today in his speech here in Miami wearing that mask the whole time. Showing how seriously he is taking this virus not just in his own campaigning but in promoting that for other people.

And one thing that you've seen with Joe Biden is that how seriously he has taken the coronavirus has allowed him to still be out on the campaign trail today while the president who has flouted a lot of those social distancing or mask wearing suggestions from experts, he is the one who contracted coronavirus and Joe Biden is still out there able to campaign in this way that this campaign believes they've developed an effective model to campaign in a healthy and safe way following all of the protocols and regulations in these different states as he is traveling around the country.

LEMON: And he outlined a lot of policy points during the town hall, tell us about the questions voters were asking and how Biden responded.

SAENZ: Yes. Biden was asked really a wide range of questions. Things relating to the way that police reform would be conducted in this country. He talked about the need to have effective and safe school re-openings as the coronavirus continues in this country.

Biden really running point by point in a lot of these questions about how he would approach things as president, particularly pointing back to the fact that science and medical advice needs to be adhered to.

[22:54:59]

You know, Biden at one point was asked about that national mask mandate that he's talked about from time to time. He acknowledged that he wouldn't be able to implement that nationwide. That he could require mask mandates within federal buildings.

But time and time again he pointed to the scientific experts as guiding what his decisions would be like in this country and he also talked more broadly about to unify the country. That right now things are very divisive and that he believes that he could be a unifying figure going forward.

LEMON: So, Arlette, you know, after his son Beau died Biden said that he wouldn't run for office again but he told a story tonight about why he changed his mind. Listen to this and we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: When I saw those people coming out of the woods, literally the fields carrying torches in Charlottesville screeching that, if you close your eyes no matter what you saw, their veins bulging preaching anti-Semitic cape, the same exact language used in Germany in the '30s. Accompanied by the Ku Klux Klan. And when a young woman was innocently killed what was the question asked of the president? What do you think? He said there are very fine people on both sides. No president has ever said anything remotely like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This is -- this is central to his entire message.

SAENZ: That's right. From the beginning of his campaign he pointed to those clashes in Charlottesville and the president's response to them as being the reason that he jumped into this race.

This is something that we've heard him hammer away at over and over on the campaign trail as he has tried to frame this as a battle for the soul of the nation and arguing that white supremacy should not exist. That there should not be more oxygen given to those beliefs. And this is something that we're likely going to hear from him over and over as it has really been at the heart of his campaign.

LEMON: All right. Arlette, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.

The president is back in the White House maskless. But there is still so much we don't know about his health or just how many cases there are within the White House.

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