Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Itching To Have a Rally; White House Gives Trump a Green Light; Sen. Kamala Harris Being Called a Monster; Thirteen People Arrested Over a Plot to Kidnap Gov. Whitmer; Lt. Gov. Garlin Gilchrist (D-MI) Was Interviewed About Who's Behind the Plot Against Gov. Whitmer; Trump Not OK With Virtual Debate; Aides Worried by Trump's False Claims. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 08, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: It's time for the best part of the night. CNN Tonight with its big star, D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Best part show you're right. Show you are right. Listen, no laughing matter, though. I saw you with the governor. Man, that is some scary, scary, scary stuff. But I don't hear anybody in 1600 -- I'm sorry, not 1600, Black Lives Matter Avenue saying anything about it.
CUOMO: I mean, look, first of all, Whitmer is a cool cat. I don't know how she's so composed. This isn't what you and I deal with. You know, this isn't a couple of jerks on Twitter who are saying stupid things that are going to get them a call from the local authorities. This was weeks of planning from guys, over a dozen at least, maybe more, who wanted weapons and training and coordinated action with other groups to go after her and take her or hurt her. And it is the number one terror threat in this country.
LEMON: No way. Do you remember when I said that -- and I mean, you would have thought -- do you remember when I said that a while ago?
CUOMO: Yes, I don't remember that as the origination of the truth of it, but yes, I do remember you saying.
LEMON: And what happened?
CUOMO: Well, you know, can't have black guys saying that white people are the problem, Don. I keep telling you that.
LEMON: That's the truth though.
CUOMO: Yes, I know.
LEMON: But, you know, you've got the other scary people that we demonize because of their religion --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- but not these guys. CUOMO: Look, Islam hates us, right?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's what the president says. They just apparently don't hate us as much as these homegrown angry white guys that are constantly finding ways to threaten American democracy because that's what the people who are in the business of stopping terror say.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Why would they waste their time with guys that they're not worried about?
LEMON: But yet over on the favorite channel, the president is saying --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: He's talking about how hard it is for fish to live without water?
LEMON: No, he did say that.
CUOMO: I mean --
LEMON: But he's also saying, yes, well, you know, it was my Justice Department who sent -- who arrested --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Yes, he said it in the tweet.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: My, capitalize it.
LEMON: My. The Justice Department. It's the people's department, not his Justice Department.
CUOMO: My, only capital.
LEMON: But everything he throws out is scary because he didn't say anything like it. But the next words when asked about those kinds of things, it's antifa.
CUOMO: Three tweets or whatever three blocks of tweets.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: No mention of these groups except as contained in the word any.
LEMON: How much does he talk about or tweet about antifa? He threw every --
CUOMO: He --
LEMON: Chris, I got to tell you this. He threw every scary thing against it. Antifa, Joe Biden is going to -- the suburbs are going to go crazy. They're not going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: His response to Whitmer getting targeted is Whitmer sucks. She sucks for locking down her state.
LEMON: Wow.
CUOMO: My people helped her out. She didn't even say thank you and calls me a white supremacist, which she didn't. Biden and the Democrats refuse to condemn antifa by name, anarchists, looters.
LEMON: There you go.
CUOMO: And mobs that burn down Democrat-run cities. I don't tolerate any extreme violence. Never mentions the number one terror threat in this country. I have someone on who worked in homeland security. She says they were not allowed to mention the threat because he didn't want to hear it.
LEMON: No, no, that's not true. Do you know what it reminds me of though as I sit here and watch? This is when we were back at the old place, right? I would sit and watch the favorite channel and it would be the New Black Panthers or it would be acorn and now it's antifa. It's everything is scary. He do everything.
He said those words, the antifa. He said Joe Biden is going to raise your taxes and it's going to be worse than 1929 Depression that the suburbs were going to -- Joe Biden was going to change the suburbs and they were going to be more violent than the cities.
I mean, every scary thing that he could throw out, it is -- he sounds desperate. It is unbelievable how desperate he sounds. This man holdup in the White House hopped up on steroids and rage tweeting and calling into his favorite channel rage interviewing.
CUOMO: He's embarrassing to the people who support him because there are people with legitimate senses of humiliation and frustration and disinfection and they want a change agent, somebody who fights back against the system that they see is unequal. That's the irony is that, the fight for systemic inequality involves white and black people.
And now they've got to defend this. They've got to own this. I've just never seen anything like it. Somebody who is so disrespectful to the people he's supposed to be all about.
LEMON: Well, I thank you for pointing out that it's time for us to -- that people need to come together instead of pitting us against each other. He should be -- he should be denouncing these groups and tweeting about them as much as he does the other guys. I've got to run though. I'll see you soon.
CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I love you too, brother. Thank you very much.
[22:05:00]
So, let's get this show underway. This is CNN Tonight. I'm don Lemon.
And I have a couple of questions for you and then I'm going to show you some of the evidence, right. We're going to help figure out what's happening.
We heard about it tonight, a little bit from an interview. And we're going to play some of it for you.
But what is going on inside of that building that you see on the screen right there, the people's house. Remember it? The Obama's called it the people's house. What is going on inside of this house? Well, we know this house had to be fumigated, sterilized, disinfected because it's a coronavirus hot spot. There was a super spreader event there. So, we know that much at least.
But what's really happening behind those walls? Behind closed doors? You know, the old folks used to say, look, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors. We can -- there's a lot of evidence what's happening in there though.
The president just called in to Sean Hannity, threw a kitchen sink full of conspiracy theories and lies at his base. As I said, he is desperate, desperate to hit the trail even though he may still be infected with a deadly contagious virus. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think I'm going to try doing a rally on Saturday night if we can -- if we have enough time to put it together. But we want to do a rally in Florida -- probably in Florida on Saturday night. Might come back and do one in Pennsylvania in the following night. And it's incredible what's going on. I feel so good.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS: Have you had a test since your diagnosis a week ago?
TRUMP: Well, what we're doing is probably the test will be tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We haven't -- think about this. We haven't seen the president with our own eyes since Monday except for a weird proof of life propaganda video or videos where he wears a ton of makeup and waves his hands around and says that he's cured and promises all kinds of miracle treatments.
Sounds like a snake oil salesman, right? Remember the miracle treatment guy would come to -- just put some --
rub some of this on and it'll take care of what ails you, disinfectant. Bleach.
We get letters from his doctor that says things like, the president says, I feel great. And based on the trajectory of advanced diagnostics -- what is that? Have you ever heard that from your doctor? What? Because of that trajectory of diagnostics, he'll be cleared to hit the trail this weekend.
This is what's happening, OK? Speak to anyone. Look up the kind of steroids he's taking and talk to someone who is either administered them or someone who is taking them. Pumped up on a powerful, on powerful steroids and infected with a potentially deadly virus, changing his mind like New York City taxi drivers change lanes.
His staff has been contaminated with the coronavirus, possibly by him. He could be patient zero. The West Wing virtually empty because of their own recklessness. And now they want to take their super spreader tour on the road, super spreader 2020, while they are still covering up the first series of events by refusing to release when he last tested negative, if he was being tested at all.
What? Why should we -- why would anyone believe him? His words matter. Those words, they put the lives of Americans at risk. Remember the American carnage the president talked about in his inauguration speech? He has stoked it for the last four years with his unhinged rhetoric and his actions.
So, just as an example, why don't we use -- let's use the coronavirus as an example. More than 212,000 Americans are dead. And guess what he's doing. He is trying to blame gold star families, the families of fallen troops for his own infection, ignoring his Rose Garden super spreader event just the day before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They want to hug me and they want to kiss me. And they do. And frankly, I'm not telling them to back up. I'm not doing it. But I did say it's like, you know, it's obviously dangerous. It's a dangerous thing, I guess, if you go by the COVID thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:56]
LEMON: He is inciting Americans to disregard our own safety, the president. He's mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask, making false promises of cures. His own former vaccine director telling Jake Tapper at the president's promotion of unproven drugs is shameful.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BRIGHT, FORMER DIRECTOR, HHS BIOMEDICAL ADVANCED RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY: It's shameful what is happening from the White House from this president and his senior administration officials in pushing unproven drugs forward as a panacea, as a miracle cure, as a cure-all, as a gift from God, all the ways that they describe these treatments without any evidence behind them. And pushing them forward, encouraging free wide access to Americans,
in some cases where Americans didn't even need to be diagnosed with COVID-19. Knowing that these drugs could cause significant harm, these drugs could cause death even. It's reckless for the president and his administration to promote these.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Remember hydroxychloroquine that he shorthanded? Hydroxy and then the folks at state TV started saying hydroxy. They say hydroxy. Guess what drug he did not take when he went to the hospital last week. No mention of hydroxy. Yet this president continues to downplay the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, I'm sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful Resolute desk, the great Resolute desk. I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know, I don't see it for myself.
I said supposing you brought the light inside the body in which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too? It sounds interesting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll get the right folks who could.
TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs.
We have done an incredible job. We're going to continue. It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But he -- if you ask him or his followers, he never said that, even if you show them the evidence. He didn't say that. OK, he said it, but that's not what he meant. He said it but it's OK because, he said it but, he said it, he said it, but, but, but, but, he said it.
How many excuses? Come on. If your child did that, you would correct them. Stop making excuses for this man. And this is not about ideology or Democrat versus Republican. This is about the behavior of a person who is supposed to be the leader of this country. Not leading at all, holding back information and evidence from you, lying to you. What this president says matters, all presidents. But his words matter.
So, let's talk about the vigilante plot to kidnap Michigan's governor, overthrow several state governments. OK? Governor Whitmer who has been a vocal opponent and a target of this president, escaping what the FBI and the state attorney general say was a domestic terror plot.
Thirteen people charged because they were angry about the lockdowns in the state in the middle of a pandemic. They were angry about lockdowns. Really? I know it's hard out -- it's hard for people out there. But how many people are plotting to overthrow their government?
According to the criminal complaint, one suspect specifically claimed, or complained, I should say, about Michigan controlling the openings of gyms. Referring to the governor as, quote, "this tyrant b-word," except they didn't say b-word, they said the actual word. And adding, I don't know boys, we've got to do something.
Who do you think you are? You have to do something? What? Does that mean overthrowing the government, going after a sitting governor? How is it your responsibility? Why do you feel so entitled that you have to do something about it? What you have to do is take a seat. Sit. Sit down. And a long time in jail it seems for now.
[22:15:09]
The governor specifically blaming the president and his failure to condemn far right groups, saying his words are a rallying cry and a call to action.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Just last week, the President of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups. Stand back and stand by, he told them. Stand back and stand by.
Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight. When our leaders meet with, encourage, or fraternize with domestic terrorists, they legitimize their actions and they are complicit. When they stoke and contribute to hate speech, they are complicit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now you'll remember the president stoked that anger for political purposes in all caps. The tweet was back in April, liberate Michigan. Protesters and vigilantes, some armed, they stormed the grounds of the Michigan Capitol. And then just last month at a rally, he kept up his attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You would be doing even better if you had a governor that knew what the hell she was doing. You've got to open up the state.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Asked today if he thought the president's liberate Michigan tweet encouraged vigilante groups, Joe Biden said yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Yes, I do. There is no place for hate in America. And both of us have been talking about this for some time, about how white supremacists and these militias are a genuine threat. I've got to compliment the FBI and police agencies for what they did and how they've stepped up.
But look, the words of a president matter. You've heard me say this before. They can cause a nation to have the market rise or fall, go to war, bring peace. But they can also breathe oxygen into those that are filled with hate and danger. And I just think it's got to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Can you ever -- can you imagine this president ever saying anything like that? Never. Never unity. Always division. What the president says matters. His words matter.
Let's talk about this president's dehumanizing attacks on Kamala Harris. You saw her in the video there with the former vice president. She's a sitting United States senator and vice-presidential candidate, calling her a monster and a communist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And this monster that was on stage with Mike Pence who destroyed her last night by the way, she's a communist. She's not a socialist. She's well beyond a socialist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: As we would say, as we say, who raised you? Who raised you? Are you that desperate to win an election that you have to call a sitting U.S. senator a communist and a monster? Show some respect. She is someone's mother. She's someone's wife. And she was elected to office to serve the people just like you were. Show some respect.
And guess what. Senator Harris is the first black and South Asian woman to run for vice president.
We see you. I see what you're doing. It's not even a dog whistle. But we expect nothing less because you have showed us who you are, a bigot and a racist. You call her a monster. It's not politics as usual when you do that. It is vile and it is dangerous and it is disgusting. And someone should call it out and I am here to do it. I'm here for you people.
People listen to this president. They take what he says seriously. Words do matter. This president's words matter. And never more than right now with millions of Americans already going to the polls, millions more set to vote in 26 days. Mask up and vote. Or do it early. But get to the polls and do it.
[22:20:06]
Kaitlan Collins, Sara Sidner, both join me now. Good evening to both of you. Kaitlan, I should have said when I started at the top about what's going on behind the wall, I should have said, to be a fly on the wall at the White House. I got that right in the middle and I said I missed an opportunity.
So, we haven't seen the president. We don't know his test results now or his past ones because there's the ongoing cover up. He is acting erratically. And tonight, he is refusing to answer if he has been tested again.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And Don, he was even asked three times in a friendly interview with Sean Hannity has he been tested since he was tested last Thursday and tested positive. And the president purposefully was not answering any of those questions and then he later said that he would get tested tomorrow and said he doesn't believe there's a reason to test all the time. And even tried to imply he was potentially never infected with coronavirus, though of course we know his doctors have said otherwise.
But, Don, during his interview with Sean Hannity, you heard the president several times having to clear his throat and cough a little bit. And it's important to reminds viewers, we have not independently seen the president since he got back to the White House on Monday.
Instead, we've just seen these videos produced by the White House, edited by the White House. And we haven't actually seen him ourselves and we also have not asked his doctor questions either since Monday. He is only putting out these statements and not putting out questions -- or not taking questions from reporters.
But now the president says he's potentially going to hold a rally this Saturday night, he says in Florida, maybe or in Pennsylvania, though we still don't even know if the president has actually gotten a negative result yet, Don. And you have to think that if he did, he would probably have told us by now.
LEMON: Sara, I want to turn to Michigan. There's a serious story going on right there, serious investigation. Thirteen people charged in a plot to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Who are they and why do they want to do this? What is going on with this group?
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's interesting and really scary actually when you consider what had sparked this. Some of what had sparked this and their anger, and their anger that has pushed them to want to kidnap the governor according to the FBI and state authorities has partly to do with the coronavirus.
And why is the coronavirus involved? Because the governor had mandated masks. Because of some of the precautions to try to save lives that the governor had put in place and the state had in place. They felt like that was tyrannical and they wanted to overthrow the government according to the complaint.
The plan according to the complaint was that they were going to instigate some of them a civil war to cause the government to unravel, to target member of law enforcement in order to do that, to storm the capitol building in Lancing, and kidnap government officials. Their main target according to the court documents was Governor
Gretchen Whitmer who talked about this. She was -- her house apparently was surveilled. Her vacation home surveilled not once but twice.
And you're also hearing these really disturbing details about the leader of this group being recording saying she should just grab the b-word because at that point, you know, that it's over, dude. And then they talk about what they were doing. It wasn't just talking about it. It wasn't just conversing on social media. It was also actually doing training for this and buying things like explosives.
They purchased a laser according to the government and the group successfully detonated an improvised explosive device wrapped with shrapnel to try to use it as an antipersonnel capability. And they wanted to blow up the bridge to stop police from being able to get to her quickly if they were to be able to kidnap her from her home. These are really disturbing details and certainly it has turned political as well. Don?
LEMON: Sara, Kaitlan, thank you. Sara, please be safe. Thank you very much you guys. I'll see you soon.
The plot against the governor of Michigan was deadly serious, conducting surveillance testing and testing and explosives, I should say. I'm going to ask Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist what he knows about the vigilante group behind all of this.
But first, I want you to listen to what Governor Gretchen Whitmer says today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITMER: When I put my hand on the bible and took the oath of office 22 months ago, I knew this job would be hard. But I'll be honest. I never could have imagined anything like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the allegations are shocking, shocking to think that this is America in 2020. We're talking about 13 people who are now accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer. They allegedly want to put her on trial for treason, for shutting down the state in the middle of a pandemic.
Also allegedly planning to overthrow several state governments. Governor Gretchen Whitmer calling out the president for refusing to condemn far-right groups during last week's debate, saying the words of our leaders, matter, that they carry weight.
Let's discuss now with Michigan's Lieutenant Governor Garlin -- Garlin Gilchrest. Thank you so much for joining us, Lieutenant Governor. I really appreciate it.
LT. GOV. GARLIN GILCHRIST (D-MI): Don, thank you for having me back on.
LEMON: So, the conspirators conducted surveillance on Governor Whitmer's vacation home. They tested detonating and explosives. They were planning a violent overthrow of government. What do you know about this group that who call themselves the violent -- the -- excuse me -- the Wolverine Watchmen?
GILCHRIST: Well, we know that this threat went beyond credible to being serious and imminent. And then Governor Whitmer and I are thankful for the law enforcement professional at the federal and the state level for stepping up and stepping in, to keep us safe. It shows you their commitment and their skill to be able to do that.
But the thing I really think people need to know is that this group of people was emboldened. They were emboldened by President Donald Trump. They were emboldened by the complicity and encouragement of the leader of the Michigan Republican Party who created the rhetorical space for them to plan these deadly actions.
[22:29:58]
And we need to hold those leaders accountable for that who have created that culture. That is not what we need to be building towards in America or in the state of Michigan. And this is a real threat. And I would imagine that groups like these have been empowered and inspired all over the country and everyone must be vigilant and take note.
LEMON: You're right about the vigilance. Listen, so, this was back in April the president tweeting, liberate Michigan. When President Trump tweets liberate Michigan, what do you think these groups hear?
GILCHRIST: Well, I'll tell you what they did when they read that tweet. They came to the capitol with guns. They came with Nazi paraphernalia. They came with confederate flags. We had even a sitting Michigan state senator wear a confederate flag on his face as a mask.
Those armed men, two of which were arrested by the way in the sweep, were in the Senate gallery. I am the president of the Michigan Senate. I saw those men with my own eyes in the Senate gallery carrying long guns to intimidate lawmakers.
They had, you know, ill intentions as we like to say. We need to make sure that these things are always taken seriously. And for the president to be so flippant, for Republicans to be so flippant as to fraternize with these people while they were armed in the capitol shows you where their priorities lie. It's not about public safety and it's not about people. It's about politics with them. And their politics is simple enough to accommodate these terrible things.
LEMON: I'm looking at those pictures, I mean, it is just really unbelievable. Thank you, Lieutenant Governor. Be safe, you and the governor. Thank you so much. GILCHRIST: Thank you, Don. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: The president's doctor says that he is clear for public events as early as Saturday and the president says he is going to hold campaign rallies this weekend. But we don't even know if he has tested negative for the coronavirus yet. Stay with us.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the president is saying that he hopes to have rallies this weekend as his doctors says he expects the president to be able to go back out in public on Saturday. That's despite the president's -- the president just moments ago refusing to answer if he had a negative test since his diagnosis and saying he will probably -- probably -- be tested tomorrow. So, the president is trying to claim today there's nothing to worry about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR: Your wording, you feel that way if you're saying you were ready to go to a rally.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, I don't think I'm contagious but we still have to wait -- I don't think I'm contagious at all. I'm back because I made perfect physical specimen and I'm extremely young. So, I'm lucky in that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, President Trump back in the Oval Office today despite the West Wing still dealing with the fallout of its own outbreak. Senator Mitch McConnell admitting that he hasn't been to the White House in months due to the COVID protocols there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I haven't actually been to the White House since August 6th because my impression was their approach is (Inaudible) different from mine and what I insist we do, which is wear masks and practice social distancing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Interesting. CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner joins me now. Good evening to you, doctor.
So, this memo that we got that we saw incredibly vague. The president says he will probably be tested tomorrow. How can he be cleared to go back without being tested for this virus?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: He can't be. He can't be cleared with any kind of certainty. And why would you risk it? You know, this president throughout the pandemic has risked the lives of his supporters. He's risked the lives of his staff. He's risked the lives of his Secret Service agents.
How can a man who just contracted the virus, who's been lucky enough to survive because he has every possible therapeutic and physician available at his back on call? How can he jump out and endanger the lives, wantonly endanger the lives of his supporters?
The CDC states that if you've had mild to moderate disease, about 10 days after your symptoms, you're probably safe to go out. But they say for patients with severe to critical illness, you may shed virus up to 20 days.
Look, his doctors said they were very worried about him. He got triple experimental therapy. So, I don't know. To me that sound likes severe disease. You can't have it both ways. You can't have mild disease and get this one of a kind experimental therapy ands or have severe disease and go out -- and go back into public in only 10 days.
LEMON: So, doctor, let me ask you this, can -- did they -- are they waiting to test him because they think the longer this goes on, that he's going to be negative if they just wait one more day, wait one more day? Or has he been tested but he doesn't want to reveal the results? help me out here.
REINER: I doubt they'll test him. You know, many patients after COVID will shed viral remnants or RNA remnants which a sensitive PCR test can pick up. And it's sometimes hard to know whether they're just shedding, you know, dead pieces of virus or whether they are truly infectious.
Now, if you look at the president's note today, he hinted that he -- they've been using some sort of novel not FDA approved not available for anyone else diagnostic test to try and chart the course of his infectivity, stuff that's not available to the public. That's what his doctor was hinting at, which is why his doctor didn't specify the kind of test.
LEMON: Doctor, thank you so much. We'll see you soon.
REINER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: The president is insisting on an in-person debate after refusing to debate virtually. What's the state of this debate? We're going to talk about that next.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: My head is spinning. This president keeps going back and forth on what he wants to do about the debate. As I said earlier, he keeps changing his mind like a New York City taxi driver changes lanes. Here's what he just said on Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm not going to do a virtual debate, sit behind a computer screen. And that gives them the answers because they'll be handing him the answers. Just so we want to have debate I'd rather just do it our self. Pick some good anchor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow, OK, that's a good excuse. Now he's suggesting that he'll do a debate without the debate commission? And he's making baseless claims about providing answers to Biden. Man, I would love to moderate that debate. That would be a really great debate. Talk about law and order.
We still don't know if Trump has tested negative for the coronavirus, which means his presence could put everyone at the debate at risk.
[22:45:03]
Our senior political analyst, John Avlon, is up late for us. He's usually on New Day where I catch him doing his thing, a lot in the mornings. Not every day but I catch him there a lot. It's good to see you, John.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You too.
LEMON: Let's talk about these polls. Majority of polls show Joe Biden with a significant lead in this race so far. So, Trump needs the debate more than Joe Biden. Is that -- am I correct or no?
AVLON: A hundred percent.
LEMON: OK. Go on.
AVLON: Look, I mean, this is not rocket science. You know, Trump, despite his sort of totally craft out of whole cloth assertion that he won the debate easily, every poll shows people did not believe he won the debate. And he is down in every poll, and by large numbers. This is much bigger than what we saw in 2016.
So, the person behind wants more debates. Joe Biden doesn't need them. The first was a dumpster fire because Donald Trump lit himself on fire. And now you've got a situation where the President of the United States has COVID, has not been transparent about his medical history, and the debate, the debate committee this morning came out with a very reasonable proposal or, you know, suggestion based on the circumstances, said look, let's go ahead with it. But do it remotely because you might get other people sick.
Trump freaked out mostly because it sounded like he wanted the ability to not get cut off remotely.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Well, so, but --
AVLON: He wants to be able to run rough shot over the rules.
LEMON: So that's what I was going to ask you. AVLON: And if he wants to -- yes.
LEMON: So why is he pushing for an in-person event? I mean, could he be baiting Biden you think to drop out? After all, Biden did make other plans for next Thursday.
AVLON: Yes, I mean that train has sailed. Biden has set up for a town hall debate which was the format that the second debate was supposed to be on Thursday, and there has been a lot of back and forth today. But I think that says as much about the erratic state of the president's head as anything else right now.
Keep in mind, the president today has simultaneously demanded that Joe Biden be arrested and demanded Joe Biden debate him. These are not two typically typical things you see in a presidential campaign even down the stretch when things get crazy.
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: The president seems increasingly erratic. And so now we're left in a limbo --
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: -- because, you know, now that they went it briefly seemed like they had an agreement about pushing the debate back a week. But then, but the Trump team said, well let's add a third debate. It's not actually their call.
LEMON: Right.
AVLON: It's the presidential commission's call.
LEMON: But you, you also mentioned erratic behavior being in. I know you want to talk about the president calling Kamala Harris a communist. Why is that? Tell me.
AVLON: Because calling her a monster and a communist are two different kinds of ugly that we should not get numb to simply because this president has a steady stream of attacks particularly on women.
You know, the communist attack yet goes back to Joe McCarthy, and that's very serious. But it's also about this blurring of lines that has increasingly been occurring on the margins of saying that Democrats are radical socialists. No wait, they're communists.
You know, last time I checked communists killed millions of people during the 20th century. And it's not only a play to the base thing. It's a demonize your opponent beyond all reason thing. And so, there is a deep strain of ugliness that is resonant. It is racial in his case. It is sexist, but it also is associating your political opponents with mass murders. And let's not get numb to that, people.
LEMON: Yes. John Avlon. Always good to see you. I love it when you come on. I also love it when you come on with your wife. So please do that. AVLON: She's better than me. You know that.
LEMON: No, I want you. I like you when you two argue. It's really great.
AVLON: Any time.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. I'll see you soon.
AVLON: All right, man.
LEMON: Sources say the president's aides are trying to stop him from making baseless claims about voting as intelligence shows foreign adversaries are looking to exploit the false information he is spreading. But so far, no luck. Because just this morning the president spread more lies.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, he is back at it with just, with less than a month to go before the election. President Trump repeating his false claims that mail-in ballots are fraudulent and corrupt.
Now sources are saying aides are trying to steer him away from those false claims which are clearly debunked by fact-checking.
More tonight from CNN's Pamela Brown.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Twenty-six days to go until election day and President Trump is showing no sign he will stop spreading misinformation about mail-in voting and voter fraud.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's a corrupt system because they are sending out millions of ballots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: CNN has learned that some of Trump's aides have been trying to steer him away from these baseless voter fraud arguments and instead have him talk about how the mail-in ballots could cause confusion and even chaos. But Trump continues on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you send out millions of ballots, when you are the sender you can send them to wherever you want. You can send them to Democrat areas or Republican areas. You don't have to send them at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The disconnect between the candidate and the campaign also heard in poll watcher training videos created by the Trump campaign for 17 different states and reviewed by CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Essentially, the key is to behave yourself and not act like a fool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now one of the top U.S. intelligence officials on election security is acknowledging the president's false claims are being used by foreign powers. The director of National Counterintelligence and Security Center, Bill Evanina, telling Hearst Television if they see a reference made by the President of the United States, a prominent U.S. senator, a business person, someone who America looks at as a voice of reason and they believe it suits their reason, they will amplify that by a thousand to make sure that the most amount of people see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:54:59]
Did Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is fighting an extension of voter registration deadlines after a system outage prevented some people from registering on the last day to do so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): You can have the best site in the world, sometimes there's hiccups on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A court filing from an attorney for DeSantis says extending the deadline might sabotage, perhaps irreparably Florida's efforts to maintain normalcy during this profoundly abnormal election cycle. Already more than 5.4 million Americans have cast their votes, this according to CNN and an Edison research survey of election officials in 31 states reporting voting data.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN COATS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: How will we do it --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now a bipartisan group that Trump's former Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats, is launching a $20 million campaign in several states telling the public that the election is, quote, "safe and secure."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COATS: Help make sure every vote is counted, no matter who you vote for or how.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATS: And we have learned tonight that DOJ is now letting prosecutors announce voter fraud investigations close to election day. This is an exception made to a 40-year-old rule that basically discouraged prosecutors from announcing such investigations close to the election as to not influence the election.
But now with this exception made, any matter having to do with ballots or voting, any small matter that could be just human error can now be turned into something bigger. A press release could be sent out saying that voter fraud is being investigated.
And one election be expert said for context, this is like giving the green light to influence the election.
Back to you, Don.
LEMON: Pamela, thank you so much.
There will be a stimulus. There won't be a stimulus. He won't debate. He will debate. Decision whiplash inside the White House, what is going on?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
