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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Event on White House Tomorrow, Despite Risk of Virus Spreading; Trump on COVID-19 Recovery; Trump Appears to Undercut Stimulus Offer; Pompeo Working on Releasing Clinton E-mails; C-Span Says Steve Scully's Twitter Account Hacked; Second Presidential Debate Cancelled; Trump Re-tested for COVID-19; United States COVID-19 Cases Spiking Every Day; Joe Biden Calls on Trump's Reckless Personal Conduct; The Second Presidential Debate was Cancelled After President Donald Trump Refuses to Do Virtual Debate; President Trump Spends Hours Talking to Conservative Media; Growing Fears About Violence, Voter Intimidation at Polling Places as Tensions Rise; CNN Heroes, Inside the Fitness Classes That Help Overcome Addiction. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 09, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You know, this is really the sprint to the finish, 25 days until Election Day and the president still recovering from his COVID-19 infection said to address 2,000 supporters at the White House tomorrow. They're going together on the south lawn and Trump will speak from a balcony. He's also planning a campaign rally in Florida on Monday night. Joe Biden slamming what he calls Trump's reckless personal conduct.

And its official, next week's second presidential debate is canceled. Trump refusing to debate in a virtual format. Let's discuss now, Mark McKinnon is a former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, CNN's senior political analyst Kirsten Powers is here. And former White House communications Director Anthony Scaramucci joins us as well.

Good evening one in all. Mark McKinnon, boy, you are going to have a show this weekend. I mean, my head is spinning from this this week. The lies, the cover-up's the back and forth on stimulus and the debates. And now the president is going to hold another potential super-spreader event at the White House tomorrow? This is insanity.

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, once again, are shows are having a problem of lack of material for the episode. Yes, think about that, Don, tomorrow (inaudible). Think about the fact that Dr. Fauci today defined that Rose Garden event for the swearing in of Supreme Court nominee as a super-spreader event. You know, Trump's own CDC Director is defining it as a problematic situation.

Now they are going to replicate that again tomorrow. And I'm sure they have masks. But the notion that you're going to do something to remind people about how this all root may have started is just insane. Then the president talks about how he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and people would still support him. Well, now, the question is, he's standing in the middle of the White House and infect people, and will people still support him?

LEMON: Can he stand on the White House balcony, right and infect -- well, crazy. Anthony, why won't anyone in this administration tell the president that it is nuts to hold events with thousands of people right now when you have the virus?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: Well he's going with his instincts. He's trying to replay the 2015, 2016 way things work. And so there's nobody left on that staff that can talk to him. Maybe there's a few kids of his that want to talk to him, but there's other kids that don't. So, they are stuck. And he is the campaign manager, the campaign strategist, the communications director and the president. So, you're going to get more of this.

What's weird about it is that what anybody on this television program right now go to that next super-spreader event? Even if you were wearing Neil Armstrong's lunar landing suit? I mean, I wouldn't do it. So, I don't know if anybody out would. So, I just think it's bizarre that there's actually people willing to go to an event like that. It just shows you how susceptible people are to lunacy and cultism.

LEMON: Kirsten, I want you to take a listen to what the president said to Rush Limbaugh about his illness. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was in not great shape. And we have a medicine that healed me, that fixed me. I feel better now than I did two weeks ago, it is crazy. And I recovered immediately, almost immediately. I might not have recovered at all from COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, OK, two weeks ago, but he was hospitalized, Kirsten a week ago. Was he not feeling well two weeks ago?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We don't know. That is a problem. That we get all this contradictory information. And we can't trust that any of this is straightforward. And the fact -- the way that he talked about these things, I mean, Joe Biden is right in calling him reckless. You know, talking about this is it, there's some like miracle drug that heals you from it in a week or whatever time period he had it. I mean, we all know people who had COVID.

And you know, people, young people, don't bounce back from it as quickly as the president claims that he did. It's not really believable that that happened.

[23:05:00]

And he's sending a really reckless message to people that it is something that could be killed so quickly, that there is this miracle drug, and that now you can go back and have another big event at the White House and pretend that COVID didn't actually spread at the White House. I mean, he's completely out of control. Even for him. You know, this is just next level out of control.

LEMON: Mark, this president is giving everyone on Capitol Hill, and the country really, whiplash over the stimulus negotiations. Flip- flopping, totally out of step with his own party. Republicans cannot be happy about this, especially those who are up for reelection. Are they going to start bailing on him or too afraid?

MCKINNON: I think you are sort of seeing it behind the scenes now, Don. That they're start to cut and run, because -- I mean they're left in a place where -- first of all, look at the key demographics like seniors who are key to Trump's victory in 2016, won seniors by seven points. He's now losing them by 27.

And you can just imagine where that number is headed given the -- you know, that doesn't even get taken to account in the last few days or the last weeks. Or imagine after seniors saw what's going on for the last week and tomorrow. It is, I mean, as Kirsten just describe, it's reckless. That's what Biden calls it, reckless.

And when you're doing that about health issues that are affecting millions of people in the country that is really a problematic situation. And then this whole stimulus thing is insane. I could not find a single Republican the other day when Trump went south on the deal that he had, walked away from it, nobody could find any rationale, strategic rationale, where that made sense. It was Trump being impetuous, being petulant. And how of course he's trying to dial it back in. But a lot of those Republicans are going to be to say, screw that (inaudible) remaining time we got.

LEMON: Are they furious with him?

MCKINNON: Yes, but now they are mad. Now they are mad, because, like I said, it's just not making any strategic sense whatsoever.

LEMON: Listen, you were -- Anthony, you remember the emails, lock her up, all of that stuff. Yesterday Trump slammed the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for not releasing more of Hillary Clinton's emails. Well, today Pompeo says that he's going to release them. Is he just, is this 2016 -- the strategy? I mean, what is obviously -- this is a very different race.

SCARAMUCCI: It's going to have a huge effect on the Hillary Clinton campaign here in 2020. I mean it's just nonsensical.

LEMON: Maybe she will not be reelected. But go on.

SCARAMUCCI: I'm just saying, it's going to be really bad for Hillary. So, I mean, like here's the thing. Mike Pompeo knows better. OK. He's a Harvard law school graduate with the West Point. He's just in for the ride, you know and so somebody is going -- you know, it's not going to be a Nuremburg trial. Thank God. Because we are going to get rid of this guy. But somebody is going to have to answer over this.

There will be a reckoning in the Republican Party. Say, Secretary Pompeo, what was that all about? And oh, by the way, why were you doing this? And why were you listening to him on that? You know his nonsensical. You know there's something wrong with him. What was it about your personality that you allowed your will and your strength as an American patriot, to bend to him?

And so people are going to have to answer for that. Mark knows we're headed for a major reckoning in the Republican Party. All of these sycophants are going to have to do a 180, and then we'll all have to ask each other what was that about. Why did we all do that?

LEMON: Yes, I thought about that the other day. I said what if he did lose? And what happened to all those Republicans who were his lapdogs? I don't know.

SCARAMUCCI: they are going to pretend they didn't know him, Don. They are going to pretend that they didn't know him, they'll disavow him.

LEMON: Yes, but Kirsten, you cannot count him out at this point, because I know the polls show that Joe Biden is ahead. But they are tightening. You can't count Trump out right now.

POWERS: No, you can't count him out. And of course anything could change. But to Mark's point, you know, if you look at the polls, particularly with seniors, particularly you know, women, with suburban women, you would not want to be Donald Trump right now. You know, if you're looking at these numbers, they are very, very concerning for him. And to see people who voted for you the last time to be flipping the way seniors have.

You know, any campaign in the right mind would be freaking out. So on some level I think that is part of the president's behavior is feeding into his behavior and he's sort of acting increasingly desperate. But you are right, until we actually have Election Day, we know what's going on in the world, we do not know. I mean, this whole week, right, it was like a year basically. We don't know what's going to happen next week.

LEMON: Two years. It was like two years.

POWERS: -- yes or in the following weeks until we get to the election.

[23:10:02]

LEMON: Anthony, listen, as of now, these could change again. Like I said I have whiplash. Next week's presidential debate is officially off. But you know, I got to ask you about a tweet that you appeared to get from CNN -- it's from -- excuse, C-SPAN's Steve Scully who was supposed to be the moderator. That tweet ask for advice on how to respond to Trump's criticism.

But C-SPAN says it was fake. Sean Spicer even came to Scully's defense. And you say you take Scully at his word. So, the debates off at any rate, but what happened there? And will there be another debate in the future you think?

SCARAMUCCI: I certainly don't think there will be a debate. How is the president going to stand there? The reason why he was interrupting Vice President Biden so much in the first debate was, what's he's going to say? I ruin the economy, I lied about the health care crisis, tens of thousands of people died unnecessarily because of my lack of crisis management skills. How is he going to sit there and tolerate that for two more debates? So, I predict there won't be any more debates.

As it relates to Steve Scully, I take him at his word. He's a very good guy, a credible journalist. I responded to him with what I thought was very good advice by the way. Don't respond to the president. Don't take his bait. Let people like me, OK, fellow New Yorkers, take the bait. And let me knock heads with them.

It's not appropriate for journalists to do that. And Steve's an objective guy. And if they decide to use him as a moderator, he'll do a terrific job. And you know, we all have our opinions of things, but Steve is a consonant professional in that C.

LEMON: He was saying he was hacked.

SCARAMUCCI: He did an amazing job at that debate.

LEMON: He was saying he was hacked.

SCARAMUCCI: Yes. I think -- and I take him at his word I think he was hacked -- he's a great guy, let's move on.

LEMON: Maybe you want to answer this. Do you D.M. him? Do you guys D.M.?

SCARAMUCCI: On the bible, I have five beautiful kids, I have never D.M. him. And I will say that to anybody. I would even say it under oath. I never D.M.-ed Steve Scully.

LEMON: OK, because it sounds like he thought, it, you know it sounds like someone thought that they were D.M.-ing.

SCARAMUCCI: if he wasn't hacked, maybe he thought he was D.M.-ing me. Maybe he thought he was D.M.-ing me, but I don't think so. Because it was obviously a hack. But I have never D.M.-ed Steve Scully. I've had one interview with him in June of 2019.

LEMON: I got you. So, Mark, not much has happening, it's a slow news week. So, I'm sure the circus -- I'm kidding. What do you have coming up this week?

MCKINNON: Well, we talk to Leon Panetta. We talked to the authors of the Jim Baker book about the Reagan assassination, the parallels of which are really interesting, with Susan Glasser and the New York Times writer, Peter Baker. About the parallels between Reagan's hospitalization and Trump's hospitalization. It's really fascinating to go back and look at those parallels. We also talk to America first, that Donald Trump's super Pac is trying to pick up the slack while the president is on the sideline.

LEMON: All right. MCKINNON: And the Lincoln Project.

LEMON: Oh, yes. And this, and that. Thank you all. A fascinating conversation. I wish I could talk to you longer. But we have to go. See you later. Thank you. Be safe.

The president who says that he was re-tested for the virus but still hasn't told us the result is planning a big event at the White House tomorrow. The campaign rally in Florida on Monday. And Joe Biden says this to anybody planning to attend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Good luck. I'd make sure -- I wouldn't show up unless you have a mask and were distanced. I don't know, look, I just read that the CDC was going to require masks on public transportation. 40,000 people a day are coming down with coronavirus. And the White House blocked it. What is the matter with this guy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

LEMON: To the president and his top aides don't seem to care that COVID-19 is surging across the country. Cases are spiking already today. And the day is not even over. More than 54,000 new cases reported. 54,000. The U.S. death toll more than 213,000 now. And yet the president battling the virus himself, inviting 2,000 supporters to the south lawn of the White House tomorrow for a campaign rally.

Are they ignoring the real possibility of another super-spreader event? Let's bring in now Dr. -- Mr. William Haseltine, I should say, former professor at Harvard medical school. He's also the author of the COVID commentaries. Good to see you professor. Thank you so much.

WILLIAM HASELTINE, CHAIR AND PRESIDENT ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: Your welcome, thanks. You can call me doctor if you like, I'm Ph.D.

LEMON: All right, thank you doctor. Doctor, professor. So listen, seriously though, the president says he has been re-tested. But the White House, or his doctors, they haven't released the results. So, let's say he still has the virus. OK? Should he be hosting a White House event tomorrow or a rally next week? Is that reckless?

HASELTINE: Well, the first thing, I think, is not wise for him personally. I think almost any doctor would recommend rest, stay quiet, don't get out there. And if he's doing it, it's against any good doctor's advice. Good doctors would not do that. This second thing is, it really depends on the precautions that they are planning for the Rose Garden. If it was anything like the introduction of the Supreme Court nominee, it is definitely very dangerous thing to do.

As you know, COVID is spreading. And it is spreading particularly at the White House. And it's likely to continue to do so. And in the United States, and people coming from all over the United States. We're in the midst of another major rise in COVID.

As you mentioned, there were 54,000 people so far today that have been tested positive. That there were 56,000 yesterday and over 920 people died. This is not over, we are not out of the woods, and it's a very dangerous thing to do.

[23:20:07]

LEMON: So, the White House couldn't keep the virus out of the Rose Garden nomination event a couple weeks ago. We just had it up on the screen. Doctor Fauci is calling that event a super-spreader event. I want you to look at his rally. This is in Minnesota. Nine people ended up testing positive. Is he a walking super-spreader?

HASELTINE: You know, a super-spreader is somebody who themselves produces a lot of infectious virus and infects others. I can't tell you if he himself is a spreader. If Hope Hicks who was on that helicopter is a super-spreader. But what we can say is those events with a lot of people packed together, not doing social distancing and not wearing masks, is definitely a super-spreader event.

And beyond that, those people fan out all over the country. You know, one of the big problems we had earlier was that motorcycle rally. Where everybody came together from around the country. And then spread out again. And there were many, many people who were contacted by who got infected there. Who got infected and started their own mini epidemics wherever they were.

One thing people have to remember, the epidemic, the pandemic, which has circles the globe and killed over 210,000 Americans, started with one person. One person can start a global (inaudible) with this virus. And that is something that everybody should take to heart. Do you want to be next to that one person?

LEMON: No, it's rhetorical but no. Doctor Haseltine, thank you. I appreciated it.

HASELTINE: You're welcome. Thank you.

LEMON: Tonight, the number of new cases of COVID-19 spiking across the country. And Dr. Anthony Fauci saying he is disturbed and concerned about a big jump in new cases. Here's CNN's Nick Watt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A new outbreak at a nursing home here in California, nine dead.

CATHERINE BOBEDA, DAUGHTER OF NURSING HOME RESIDENT: I'm trying to prepare myself that I'm never going to see my mom in person again.

WATT: In New Jersey, average new case counts are up over 60 percent these past two weeks. New Mexico's Governor is worried.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are in a pretty difficult spot in the state of New Mexico right now. We are at extreme risk of uncontrollable spread.

WATT: 56,191 new coronavirus cases reported in the U.S. Thursday. The most in nearly two months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is really something we need to pay attention to.

WATT: These 10 states have more COVID-19 patients in the hospital now than ever before. These three states, Kansas, South Dakota, Tennessee, just log their most COVID-19 deaths in a single day. Over the course of the pandemic, we've seen hotspots, spikes, rolling waves.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Florida --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arizona is in a real crossroads --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hospitalization rate here in California --

WATT: Up one place, down in another, but right now every region in this country is on the rise. New York, saw how in the spring. Now seeing spikes, some centered on religious communities.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: It's important for all of us to not let our guard down during thanksgiving. We see that from the high holy days. People are just yearning to be together.

WATT: Broadway now shuttered until at least the end of May, went dark mid-March and will stay dark for more than a year due to a virus. This morning the New York Jets sent players and coaches home after a presumptive positive test. But they are supposed to play the Cardinals Sunday.

The NFL now juggling its schedule, reacting to outbreaks. Patriots- Broncos now moved from Sunday to Monday. Titans-Bills will now play Tuesday. They are trying to keep the season alive. Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thank you Nick. I need to tell you this. Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta are going to be speaking with five former CDC directors for a new CNN global town hall. Make sure you watch Coronavirus, facts and fears. That's tomorrow night at 9:00 right here on CNN.

Well, the second debate is canceled after the president refused the virtual format. But considering he's trailing Joe Biden in the polls doesn't he really need the debate to boost his numbers?

Plus, the president doing his first on camera interview since his coronavirus diagnosis. Well, guess which network he spoke to?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:00] LEMON: The second debate between President Trump and Joe Biden

officially canceled after the president refused to do a virtual debate. Biden's campaign saying it shameful the president is ducking the only debate where voters get to ask questions. The Democratic nominee slamming President Trump over how he's handled his coronavirus infection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: He's reckless personal conduct since his diagnosis. The destabilizing effect it's having on our government and is unconscionable. He didn't take the necessary precautions to protect himself or others. And the longer Donald Trump is president the more reckless he gets. How can we trust him to protect this country?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, Biden is in Las Vegas today. It's part of his first western swing as a nominee. While the president has been stuck in Washington all week because of his diagnosis. Let's discuss now. CNN political correspondent Arlette Saenz and Philip Bump, national correspondent for the Washington Post. Good to see both of you. Philip, it's been a long time. Good to have you back. I hope you're doing well.

PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON POST: I am happy to be here.

[23:29:59]

LEMON: Good. Arlette, so, you know, wow, I mean, the timing on this is crazy because the next debate is off. This president is under fire for planning events while infected. Biden is out in battleground states. How is the Biden campaign feeling tonight?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, Joe Biden and his campaign have essentially just been able to stay the course, stay with their original plans, and all of these events tied to the coronavirus and the president just kind of amplify the case that they have been making over the past few months.

They have tried to turn this election into a referendum on the president, particularly his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and everything that has been seen out of the White House, one with the president contracting coronavirus himself, exposure to other individuals in his orbit, just adds to Biden's case that he believes that the president has been irresponsible and reckless with his handling of COVID-19.

You heard the former vice president was very forceful today in his criticism, really the harshest, sharpest criticism he has had of Trump since he himself contracted coronavirus.

And ultimately, I mean, the Biden campaign, the president for months has been mocking Biden, saying that he is running this basement campaign, but it is Biden who has been out for the past weeks in five battleground states while the president is essentially isolated in Washington, D.C.

And here in Nevada, earlier today, he wasn't just making the case for why voters should vote for him over President Trump, he also was pushing this issue of turnout. We are 25 days out from the election, and he is encouraging his supporters to make sure that they get out there and vote to ensure that Biden decisively wins and that President Trump can't offer any challenges to that.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

SAENZ: Take a listen to what he had to say a little bit earlier today in east Las Vegas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: He is trying to scare us. He is trying to continue -- convince everybody there are ways they can play with the vote and undermine the vote. They can't. If we show up, we win.

Look at what's happening in early voting all across America. Long lines. Long lines. We can't just win. We have to win overwhelmingly, so he can't be in a position where he can put the phony challenges that he's talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And so that's just something you hear Biden continue to press over these coming weeks as you continue to hear President Trump cast doubt about the election, you know, threaten potential challenges in the future. Biden is just telling his voters to get out there and vote to ensure that there isn't going to be any kind of game that the president can play after Election Day if Biden were to win.

LEMON: Yes. Philip, listen, your new piece in the Post analyses a Pew Research center data, comparing demographic shifts between 2016 and now. So the blue that you see there on your screen, the blue bar, that shows the amount of shift to Democrats, while the red is showing the shift to Republicans.

Walk us through this. It looks like Biden has a big advantage. Am I reading that correctly?

PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON POST: Yes, exactly. So, obviously, Joe Biden in this poll is up by about 10 points over Donald Trump. That obviously is much better than Hillary Clinton did in 2016 in the popular vote.

And that is the function of a lot of those shifts that you see. You see shifts, for example, among white men. You see shifts among Catholics. You see shifts among groups that Donald Trump did fairly well with, for example, white men without college degrees, which really a core part of Donald Trump's base. I mean, vote from 2016 and moving forward.

They actually moved pretty strongly to the left. Not enough worthy Biden winning that group by any scratch, but if Donald Trump loses a big chunk of that voting population, he's in trouble.

Now, we do see some shifts in the other direction. We see, for example, the Hispanic Catholics are moving toward -- are more supportive of Trump than they were in 2016. Black men are similarly moving in that direction. But they are much smaller part of the population than are, for example, white men without college degrees.

I mean, there are shifts in the other direction, but among populations where Biden are doing very well and where the demographic group itself makes up far less of the likely electorate.

LEMON: Philip and Arlette, thank you both. I appreciate it.

The president is spending his day talking to Rush Limbaugh, then Mark Levin, then Tucker Carlson. If you're keeping track, that's hours of interviews with conservative media.

Plus, how cities are trying to plan for the possibility of voter intimidation or violence on Election Day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It has been four days since the president returned to the White House from Walter Reed. He claims that he is feeling great but how do we know? His administration won't answer any questions about his health and we haven't seen him live, just taped campaign videos and conservative media appearances.

Yesterday, he spent almost an hour and a half in phone interviews with Fox Business and Fox News. Today, he spent close to two hours on Rush Limbaugh's radio show, another half an hour on Mark Levin show, and squeezed in a tape interview with Fox News's Dr. Marc Siegel that aired on Tucker Carlson's show.

[23:40:03]

LEMON: But after hours of these so-called interviews, none of our questions are answered.

Joining me now are CNN's chief media correspondent Mr. Brian Stelter and the former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, Amanda Carpenter. Hello to both. Good to see you.

Brian, so this president loves to run a conservative media, but this is a lot. It is a lot even for him.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: He is trying to show that he is in good health and good spirits. He says he is feeling very strong now, using strong man language. And Don, he is going to safe spaces on conservative talk radio and TV. But these spaces are only safe because the interviewers are more like propagandas. He is not being asked important questions. For example, when was his last negative test before he tested positive? Clearly, the White House doesn't want to answer that question. And then these safe spaces, Trump is not asked.

LEMON: Amanda, I want you to take a listen to some of the lies and the conspiracy theories that Trump has pushed on conservative media just over the last two days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She's a communist. And this monster that was on stage with Mike Pence, he endorsed the governor of Virginia, who not only executed a baby, late-term abortion, but executed a baby because the baby couldn't be born and then you can kill the baby. He's totally in favor of that.

I said I have done more for the black community than anybody since Abraham Lincoln. And it is true. Nobody has done what I've done.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, TALK SHOW HOST AND CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

TRUMP (voice-over): But, you know, they don't like Biden. They don't like Biden. He did the super predator stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Oh, my god. So --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: -- can you please explain to me, Amanda, help me understand why he's taking his message to the people who already support him when he needs to be expanding right now his tent, so to speak --

STELTER: Mm-hmm.

(CROSSTALK)

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, number one, because he can. And number two, because he has nowhere else to go. And to me, this isn't just worrying about Trump and his very narrow and likely unsuccessful political strategy, but it is about the environment that created Trump and that he will live in post presidency.

Because when I watched these interviews, you know, we talked about what will Donald Trump do after, and people always bring up the TV network. He already has one. Look at what has happened in the last few days. These very influential media figures surrendered their programming to him. How do you do an hour-long interview with the president and not make news, right?

The only thing that came out of the Rush Limbaugh thing is that he dropped the F-bomb. How do you not manage to a question, like, when was your last negative test, and explain why that is a big deal, or perhaps what is some evidence for your conspiracy theories.

And so that's happening. And the lesson that we should draw from this is that those talk show hosts also have nowhere to go, because the Republican Party has learned and is learning that once you go a little the Trumpy, there is no going back, and you can never be Trumpy enough.

When I look at these hosts, I see weakness. I see people that can't ask a question, can't push back, because they're on the Titanic, they have nowhere to go. And so here, just take the ship, Donald, do whatever you want.

LEMON: Yes. Well, and they put themselves in that position. Jason Miller, Amanda, is Trump's campaign senior adviser, teasing a town hall next week. On the night Trump was supposed to debate Joe Biden, this is what he said on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON MILLER, SENIOR CAMPAIGN ADVISER FOR TRUMP CAMPAIGN: We are actually going to be on multiple networks. At the same time, it hasn't been announced yet, but I can give you that tease. You actually be able to go to multiple channels and see the president. And so we are going to have a much bigger audience than Joe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So, here is the interesting thing. So, he doesn't want to do a virtual debate with Joe Biden, but it is OK for him to do a remote debate with whatever he wants. Why is that a waste of time, the other one and this one isn't?

CARPENTER: Number one, let us acknowledge, makes everybody skin crawl here, Jason Miller speak, and it is embarrassing that networks like Fox continue to put him on the air for a variety of reasons.

Number two, Donald Trump doesn't want to have a debate. He wants an open mic night. He keeps finding people who will give it to him. That's what I don't understand. That's just not a failure of Trump. That is a failure of the media when he can just talk without any push back. No follow-up.

Tell me. What happened to the presidential debates? Why did that not go on? Why did the presidential debate commission not say, well, Donald Trump isn't going to show up, we're still going to hold an event? I don't understand why Joe Biden walked away from it, too.

[23:45:01]

CARPENTER: Listen. When Donald Trump breaks norms, it is important for other people to stand up for the things they believe in and push back.

LEMON: Yes.

CARPENTER: He wins because he keeps pushing people over.

LEMON: Brian, I have just a little bit left here. But I got to ask you. The president complained about Fox News today with Marc Levin and Rush Limbaugh. You literally wrote the book on Trump's relationship with Fox News. What is this all about?

STELTER: Yes. I think what he does is he wants propaganda, not news on Fox News. So he criticizes Fox because he doesn't like seeing Democrats on his favorite channel. But he is going to call in again on Sunday to Maria Bartiromo show. He knows he needs the Fox megaphone.

Whenever you hear the president bashing Fox, it is really a hoax. He is working the rest. He is going to keep doing that all the way until Election Day.

I agree with Amanda. You know, the president doesn't want to debate. He doesn't want to debate, he wants propaganda. And there are a lot of people who are willing to give it to him.

LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. See you soon. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

LEMON: There is more breaking news tonight. A federal judge blocking the move by the governor of Texas to limit ballot box -- ballot drop boxes to one location per county. Advocates for voting rights called this a victory. We are going to see if Governor Greg Abbott appeals that decision.

And with 25 days until the election, President Trump is ramping up his attempts to undermine it. Clearly, he has seen the polls that show him losing to Joe Biden, especially in key battleground states like Pennsylvania and Florida. More tonight from CNN's Pamela Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump is continuing to undermine the integrity of the election.

TRUMP: They're sending out millions and millions of ballots. Are they sending them to all Democrats? This is going to be the second biggest political scandal in history.

BROWN: Trump is spreading disinformation. Vote-by-mail states send ballots to all active voters and there are no signs of a looming scandal. And he went on.

TRUMP: You're never going to know who won the election. You know, it's going to be two weeks later.

BROWN: But election night results are always unofficial. The very real chance there won't be a winner on election night is something even something Trump's security team warned is not a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On November 3rd, we might not know the outcome of our election. And that's OK. But we are going to need your patience until official results are announced.

BROWN: The plot to kidnap Michigan's Democratic governor, along with Trump's disinformation and fiery rhetoric, is raising fears of voter intimidation on Election Day as tensions rise.

DANA NESSEL, MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's not just a Michigan problem. It's an American problem. And I -- I think there's going to be more incidences to come.

BROWN: Michigan's attorney general is working on guidance for law enforcement on how to handle guns at polling places. In 11 states in D.C., there is a ban on firearms at the polls. But many swing states, including Michigan, don't have strict rules against it.

TRUMP: Bad things happen in Philadelphia.

BROWN: Today, in Philadelphia, a judge rejected the Trump campaign's lawsuit over its attempt last month to use supporters as unofficial poll watchers ahead of Election Day, something Philadelphia officials wouldn't allow because it is against the law.

The president fumed about it at the debate.

TRUMP: The very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch.

BROWN: All campaigns are allowed to have registered poll watchers at official sites on Election Day. But the judge upheld that it is illegal at satellite election locations being used for pre-election day voting. And now, both parties are gearing up for the possibility of a contested election with no clear winner on November 3rd or weeks beyond.

The Washington Post reports Speaker Nancy Pelosi has discussed the issue in meetings. One scenario involves invoking the Electoral Count Act, an obscure, untested, 19th century law, which gives Congress the power to settle state-level disputes. Last week, Pelosi acknowledged any congressional involvement would be messy.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): If all that chaos takes us to a time that could be past the date when the electoral colleges must meet, we will be ready.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, to clamp down on disinformation, Twitter today now announcing several changes, including blocking any user, including the candidates, from announcing victory in the election until it's announced by state election officials or two reputable, national news outlets. Back to you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you, Pamela. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Staying active is more important than ever for our physical and mental health. And for people recovering from addiction, that outlet can be lifesaving. 2012 CNN hero Scott Strode and his non-profit provide free athletic activities and a sober support community for thousands. When COVID forced the organization to close its gyms, they found ways to stay connected online.

CNN congressional correspondent Phil Mattingly decided to skip the capital and join a Phoenix class to see how they have kept the interaction going strong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, everyone. Let's try to get two or three more. You got 20 seconds. Nice job, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What was kind of your thought when coronavirus first started to spread and lockdowns really started to kick into gear?

SCOTT STRODE, 2012 CNN HERO: I just knew that social isolation was going to be a big risk for relapse for a lot of people. So, pretty quickly, we pivoted to offering virtual programs. We knew we had to keep people connected in this sort of uncertain and stressful time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three, two, one. And down for the sit-up.

STRODE: Just always lifts my heart to log into a Phoenix virtual class and meet somebody in recovery who is doing the workout in their basement, somewhere in Tennessee, where we don't even have in-person programs, but they can come to the Phoenix, anyway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nice job, everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: To learn more about Scott's program and to see if Phil made it through the class, go to cnnheroes.com.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.