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Don Lemon Tonight
More Than 14 Million Americans Have Already Cast Their Votes; President Trump Takes His Super Spreader Tour On The Road To Iowa; Former POTUS Calls Out President Trump; Former President Obama Getting Ready To Hit The Campaign Trail In Critical Battleground States; Herd Immunity Is Not an Option. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 14, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Obama administration was out to get them. Do you know how easy it is to find something? This unmasking probe is just the latest, Barr's much hyped Durham report doesn't have anything they plan on sharing before the election. I wonder why. Actually, I don't wonder at all, nothing unlawful. That's the truth with Andrew McCabe and others. Why don't they tell you? Because they don't like the truth.
But I like the fact that you give me a chance to tell it to you every night. Thank you. God bless you and your families. Now it's time for the big show. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon, the big start right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: The unmasking, the unmasking, its unmasking, can you believe it's a scandal, unmasking? (CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Yes, I do believe there was spying.
LEMON: The deep state. There was spying.
CUOMO: Remember they said to me, you know spying. They don't like that word. They did tell me. No, spying. Yes. Spying. Where's the spying?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Where is it?
LEMON: Yes, there was none.
CUOMO: Months, all the resources. You can't find anything?
LEMON: Unmasking. Well, the spying and the Obamagate.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I use the DOJ to look at you for six months I'll find you unmasking.
LEMON: My gosh.
CUOMO: You don't even work there.
LEMON: I told where the real -- I told our viewers last night where the real unmasking was. The real unmasking is happening at the Trump rallies and obviously at the Trump White House that is a super spreader residence.
CUOMO: Amen.
LEMON: That's the truth.
CUOMO: Amen.
LEMON: Yes. And, listen. That is outrageous. I got to tell you though, the story of the day. You know what everyone is talking about, everyone I know? They are outraged about what is happening tomorrow night.
CUOMO: The dueling town halls.
LEMON: Yes. Why on earth would NBC agree to do that?
CUOMO: All right. I'll plus/minus it. Fair time. Equal time.
LEMON: You can do equal time on a different night. You can do equal time at a different time. You don't have to do it at the same time and then -- and then divide the country further by having them choose the whole point of it was to bring them together.
CUOMO: It is the only time.
LEMON: To have a debate.
CUOMO: He said he wouldn't do it any other time.
LEMON: Well, so, he is controlling the programming schedule at NBC?
CUOMO: Something is better than nothing.
LEMON: So, then they learn nothing from 2016? They're allowing a man who made all the wrong decisions by going -- showing up at a debate, not getting a COVID test, and then becoming a super spreader and then refusing to do the debate.
And they're allowing him -- they're giving him the -- they're rewarding him with primetime on a major network on cable and on their Spanish speaking network, someone who made all the wrong decisions and someone who backed out of a debate.
How does that help the American people? How does that inform the electorate by putting those two people on at the same time? And making people choose from one to the other? Don't give me that B.S. about well you can take one. That's not what it's about.
This is an outright embarrassing ratings ploy on behalf of NBC. And I am shocked and surprised that they would allow the president of the United States to do their programming and manipulate them into doing this. It is embarrassing.
I have spoken to several friends especially over at MSNBC. They are incredulous about this. They cannot believe it is happening especially the people of color over there, my LGBTQ friends who are over there, the way that this president treats them. It is just -- fine.
If you want to -- if you want to give Donald Trump air time on your network have him go on MSNBC. Have him go on with Rachel. Have him go on with Joy. Have him go on with someone where he can be challenged. Rather than going on a town hall where he is going to take questions and he's going to try to avoid them.
So, I don't understand it. I am -- I am outraged by this. And for all of my brothers and sisters who are over at that network and are afraid to speak out because they think that, you know, they're going to lose their job or lose their standing or there is going to be repercussions for it.
I will speak out for you. It is outrageous. And I cannot believe NBC is doing it and I am sorry for you. And guess what? I think you should speak out. I think there is no other moment where you have this much leverage and you are going to be able to tell your bosses what you think is right.
There is no need to do it at the same time, absolutely no need. It is absolutely ridiculous, NBC. It is a pure D as we say down south ratings ploy and you should be embarrassed.
CUOMO: Can I go now?
LEMON: Hey, you're a grown man. You are a grown man. You can go whenever you want.
CUOMO: I have not -- just my side of the case sucks.
LEMON: Go on.
CUOMO: I'm just sitting here taking a beating by proxy of what's going on. Look.
LEMON: I'm not talking to you. I'm not. I didn't say you.
CUOMO: I know, I know, brother. I know. What I'm saying is, look. This is what we need. What we need is the management making the decision to explain the decision.
[22:05:06]
Because the vacuum is toxic. And if you're going to do something like this, what Don Lemon is saying right now is not going to shock you. So why did you do it? That's what needs to be done.
And that's the answer actually for all of your brothers and sisters and friends that you know over there is that management needs to have their back by taking the heat and making the case. Otherwise they're putting their own people in a bad position.
LEMON: Tonight, was a very good night that they could have done it. That's all I have to say. This is me speaking.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Well, the night is still young. Maybe they'll in to your show.
LEMON: I'm not speaking on the entire -- I'm not speaking on the entirety of CNN.
CUOMO: You're not?
LEMON: I'm just speaking of -- because -- because it doesn't -- this affects -- this affects people who are voting. Right?
CUOMO: Look, there is no question --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: They thought their --
CUOMO: -- putting them on at the same time --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- this can affect the election.
CUOMO: -- is the worst kind of inequity for the public because which do they watch -- why would you do for -- the whole point of a debate is to give them equal access to the candidate. That's why people get frustrated when one person dominates in a debate or the moderator doesn't do what they're supposed to do. Because this is my one chance, this is my one shot to have them together.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: This is anathema to that.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: This is the worst of that. This is now you're forcing me to watch one at a time when they're on at the same time and you know, I can't even get it straight. I might as well watch none of it. I might as well give up.
LEMON: Terrible.
CUOMO: It is a metaphor for the whole problem.
LEMON: Exactly. Of the entire past four or five years. It is a metaphor. I'm glad you said that because that is exactly what I was thinking. And this is my last chance. What happened to your -- you had ashes --
(CROSSTALK) CUOMO: Well I tell you what happened. You are toxic. OK?
LEMON: What?
CUOMO: You are a hater. You are a hater of facial hair. And you make a point of pointing it out and then it becomes a thing and then I have to deal with it.
LEMON: What do you mean it's a thing, your wife told you not to do it?
CUOMO: No. No, she liked it by the way.
LEMON: OK. Well, OK. So, who told you not to put --
CUOMO: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. They said you had to open --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You went to the principal's office --
CUOMO: -- your big pie hole.
LEMON: I know.
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: The boss has eyes.
CUOMO: It's not true. it has nothing to do with them. I don't know what you're talking about.
LEMON: I got to run.
CUOMO: You got to run your mouth is what you got to do. I love you, D. Lemon. You made a strong case.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And you made a righteous one.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I'll be watching.
LEMON: Thank you very, very much. We have to stand up for each other. The institution of journalism is under attack. It's not just about ratings. I know there is an entertainment arm of the network but I'm thinking about the journalists over there. So --
CUOMO: You know where I am, D. Lemon
LEMON: I got you, brother. I love you. I've got to go.
So, I've made my case on that and I'm going to make my case again tonight on that and other things. Good evening. I'm Don Lemon. This is CNN TONIGHT.
So, why do we -- the question is, why do we make it so hard for people to vote in this country? is that - -it's obviously done on purpose. Why isn't it a national holiday? This is the greatest democracy on the planet. And we have people waiting whole days on line just to exercise their constitutional right to cast a ballot.
Just like the COVID crisis, it doesn't have to be this way. It is outrageous. But the president is speaking out about it and it's our breaking news tonight. From President Barack Obama slamming the voter suppression efforts we are seeing across the country with just 20 days to go until election day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If you have one major party, perhaps the only major party that I know of, in any advanced democracy in the world, who explicitly says we're trying to keep fellow citizens, certain fellow citizens from voting and we're trying to make it as hard on them as possible, even the far right in Europe does not say that.
They don't say let's stop other Austrians from voting or let's stop other Germans from voting. This is unique to us and it's a legacy of, you know, racial discrimination and gender discrimination and was embedded in our initial Constitution and had to be fixed through a series of amendments.
And so, I think that we should welcome the argument that making it easier for people to vote and eliminating the last vestiges of Jim Crow and poll taxes and all that stuff is not a partisan issue. And anyone who argues against that is behaving in a partisan fashion and I think we can win that argument with the majority of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Thank you, Mr. President. More than 14 million people have already cast their votes in the middle of a pandemic that has killed more than 216,000 Americans.
[22:10:02]
And the President of these United States taking his super spreader tour on the road to Iowa. I want you to take a look at this billboard outside Des Moines -- the Des Moines airport. Right? It's almost like it is pointing right at the coronavirus map. There it is right there.
In fact, you can tell the story of this election with two maps. Not a single state on the coronavirus map is green. Not a single state is trending in the right direction. More than nine months into this pandemic.
I said the story of this election is a story of two maps. The second one is the electoral map. That is a map that this president really cares about. Not the one that unmistakably shows cases of this deadly virus surging in state after state after state.
Look at that. That's the one he cares about. But the president who you think would take the virus seriously since he was sick himself, sick enough to be air lifted to Walter Reed, medevac'd really, right, in a way, a president whose wife had the virus, whose youngest son tested positive, whose White House is a virtual ghost town with members of his inner circle sick or working from home for fear of the virus.
This president only cares about the road to 270. Road 270. Highway 270. What is that? Two hundred seventy electoral votes. That's why he's ignoring his own task force, which is warning against gatherings of more than 25 people in central Iowa. He is ignoring that. Never mind a crowded, mostly mask free rally with thousands of supporters.
Can you believe that? There is a pandemic by the way, wouldn't know that from looking at this.
Dr. Fauci is saying tonight the president himself is no longer a transmission risk, but he can't vouch for the people around him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I can't vouch for anybody else that's there whether they've been tested or whether they've been careful in their interactions with people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, the president's rallies roll on in a state that's already seen more than 102,000 cases of the virus. And in case you think all of this is not serious, remember the president's rally, remember in Minnesota last month? Well, that state's health department has traced 16 cases of the virus to that rally or related events. The president's supporters in Iowa are following his lead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. We're just talking to folks about going to the rally tonight and seeing what they think about the health risks of being in a large gathering wondering if you had a thought on that. What do you -- what do you think? Is it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not worried.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it's got a 99.9 percent recovery rate. We're going to live our life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, I care about people. I don't want to give it to them. If there's a chance you might be carrying it around myself, I'm not worried. I figure the sooner we all get it, the sooner we'll be done with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you don't think that could lead to a lot of people, you know, dying perhaps from the virus?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the numbers are vastly inflated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have any concerns at all. You can't live your life in fear and I'm not really scared of this virus. There are all kinds of other viruses out there that could jeopardize your health as well, so can't stop living.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I'm going to get sick and die, I guess it's my turn, but I trust God and I'm not scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Can't live your life dead either. God helps those who help themselves. It's really the president should be encouraging people to help out their fellow man. It's the Christian thing to do. Do unto others.
So, the president is still trying to run his 2016 playbook in 2020 counting on rallies to save him this time because he believes they helped him win in 2016. That may have worked the last time around but this time crowded rallies with a few masks in evidence, just remind people of how reckless and irresponsible this president has been, constantly downplaying the virus. While more and more Americans are dying.
He is obsessed with 2016 as a path to 270 electoral votes gets narrower. Still harping on Hillary Clinton's e-mails, leaning on Mike Pompeo to release more of them, openly political attack on the former secretary of state, a year after a State Department investigation concluded there was no evidence of widespread mishandling of classified information by Clinton or her aides.
[22:15:09]
It started with, lock her up. And the president still won't let it go. It's all part of his unsuccessful attempts to manufacture an October surprise. He falsely tried to pin crimes on Obama officials for unmasking Michael Flynn, sounds ominous, unmasking, Michael Flynn.
An intelligence report, which was literally their job, that was revealed to be fraud in just the past day, the investigation ending with no charges or even a report, that according to the Washington Post, another attempted October surprise, another busts, and another way he is trying to recapture that 2016 magic, by manipulating the media landscape.
He is now being allowed to have a town hall tomorrow night on NBC up against Joe Biden's town hall on ABC, after throwing a fit and pulling out of the debate when it had to be altered because the president, because of the president's irresponsible behavior. It led to him getting the coronavirus. Except this time the president may not necessarily pull a rabbit out of his magic ratings hat.
He is not a novelty act anymore like he was in 2016. Many Americans are exhausted by his schtick. More people watch Joe Biden's convention than Donald Trump's. And all this shows you just how worried the president is with just 20 days to go until election day with more than 14 million people already casting their votes.
Look at that line stretching for blocks and blocks today across the country. We talked to some of those voters about what it's like casting your ballot here and now in 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My flight was at 12.15 and I didn't think it was going to take this long to vote, so I had to change my flight to 3.30.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is an important election. We can't afford to sit at home. You never know what's going to happen on election day, maybe a storm. It could be a hurricane or whatever. You might be sick, a family member sick. You don't want to take that risk. It's best to come out while you have an opportunity to vote early and get it done so that you can sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm setting an alarm because my life depends on it. This presidential election is so important because we have someone in office who is just showing no effort or care for people that look like me, and we need -- and won't even recognize systemic racism in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the lines have been pretty long everywhere across the state and so we just wanted to be here early to get it done and make sure our vote is counted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one should have to wait in line for eight hours to vote. We should have procedures in place that would prevent that from happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's exciting. Just the whole idea of being able to vote. I've always thought it was really important, and so finally being able to vote myself kind of makes me feel more like I'm being heard or have the ability to make a difference
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do understand the whole idea of there are long lines and it can be hot sometimes standing outside but there is also the other side of that which is it is really important to vote and to make your voice heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The most important thing you're going to hear tonight is vote. Vote. If you don't remember anything else, remember that. But I also want you to hear more from the former President Barack Obama, who in spite of everything is optimistic about what it takes to truly make America great.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Our country has always had this battle, right, between these darker impulses to exclude to dominate to rig the games in favor of certain folks and not others, and then the other side of it has been to expand and embrace the dignity and inherent worth of every individual regardless of what they look like or where they come from. And that tug of war is always going to be there.
So, the issue has less to do with is one party or the other inevitably like this one way or the other. It has much more to do with this ongoing tug of war between the better angels of our nature and our worst impulses. And I have confidence that we can -- we can get back to a point where both parties have in it those better angels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Better angels. Let's bring in now CNN's White House Correspondent, Kaitlin Collins.
Kaitlan, good evening to you. Thank you so much for joining us. President Trump was in Iowa tonight and he talked about his son Barron's coronavirus -- coronavirus diagnosis. What did he say?
[22:20:06]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, this is something we learned just before the president left the White House when the first lady announced that their son had actually tested positive when they did. Having coronavirus and now he's tested negative is when they are choosing to announce this.
And the president didn't really talk about it as he was on his way out the door but when he was in Iowa, he chose to use it as an example for something he has been talking about which is what he believes are the transmission rates in children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Barron Trump, you know, he had -- he had the corona 19, the China virus. It's got 21 different names. I could go over it. But to me corona means Italy. China is China. And it came from China. So, he had the China virus. Right?
And he had it for such a short period of time. I don't even think he knew he had it. Because they're young and their immune systems are strong and they fight it off 99.9 percent. And Barron is beautiful and he's free.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, of course, he is talking there about the immunity rates in children are what he believes are the immunity rates. Of course, no one is immune from this. But of course, Barron Trump is a teenager and teenagers' studies have found are much more likely to spread this at the same level than adults do than children under 10. Of course, those studies, Don, are still being done.
LEMON: Yes. They go and spread it to other people, right? So, listen, Kaitlan, just before we went on the air tonight, Joe Biden's campaign announcing that they broke their own August fundraising record, raised a whopping $383 million in September. Does the Trump campaign have that kind of money right now?
COLLINS: Well, we actually don't know because they haven't released their September fundraising numbers yet. And it's probably going to be a few days given what the Biden campaign just released because we saw this play out in August where the Biden campaign way out raised the Trump campaign.
And so, they waited several days to actually release their numbers. They did it during the middle of the news cycle, I believe when they actually did tell us how much they had raised and this dwarfs even what the Biden campaign had raised in August.
This is a lot of money for a campaign to raise just a few weeks before the election. So, I now believe that the Biden campaign and the DNC have like over $400 million on hand to spend. That's a lot of money. I don't know if there's enough TV ads that you can buy with all of that money.
LEMON: Yes.
COLLINS: And so we'll see what the Trump campaign has raised and one thing that they pointed to in recent weeks is saying, you know, Hillary Clinton had out raised us in 2016. We saw it didn't make a difference. But I believe Joe Biden is going to have much more cash on hand this time than Hillary Clinton did in 2016 judging by these latest numbers.
LEMON: The always working Kaitlan Collins. Thank you very much, joining us from the White House. I appreciate it. We'll see you soon, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Of course.
LEMON: President Obama is getting ready to hit the campaign trail in critical battleground states. I'm going to get his former campaign manager, Jim Messina, to weigh in on that strategy.
But first, I want you to hear more from the 44th president, what he says about his vice president, Joe Biden, and how he compares to President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: What he's done is he has systematically tried to decimate our entire foreign policy infrastructure. And the thing I know about Joe is that he respects people who know history and have expertise and are going to -- he is going to pay attention to somebody who has worked in Africa to find out, like how should I deal with a particular crisis there as opposed to calling it a bunch of I won't say the word countries. You know, he has a respect and understanding for what American leadership can do.
(END VIDEO CLIP) [22:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So here is our breaking news. The former president, Barack Obama speaking out tonight in an extensive interview with the podcast Pod Save America, opening up about Donald Trump's behavior as president, Republicans who enable him, and voter suppression.
Let's get right to what he is saying with Jim Messina, the former Obama campaign manager. So good to see you, Jim. Thank you for joining us. You are the perfect person to discuss this.
We are about to start hearing a lot more from President Barack Obama starting with tonight. And he hasn't forgotten his job is to talk up Joe Biden while he tries to take out President Trump. Listen to this and then we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: A lot of times when you're thinking about the presidency, it's great to look at policy and do they have what were their 10-point plans on this or that or the other. But a lot of it is what's their basic character, right? Are they people who instinctively care about the underdog?
Are they people who are able to see the world through somebody else's eyes and stand in their shoes? Are they people who are instinctively generous in spirit? Right? And that is who Joe is. You know, and I've never seen him and you don't -- you know, look. When you run for president pretty much every -- all your flaws are exposed, and once your president, then they're really exposed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Jim, is he going to be able to expose President Trump's flaws out on the campaign trail and who is he going to be -- who he is going to be moving to the polls when he does that?
JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, look, I think you saw President Obama and first of all, Don, it was so good to see him and remember what a reasoned, well thought of president looked and sounded like.
And if you look, and his message was really twofold tonight. It was to the Democratic base. He talked extensively about let's not be -- let the enemy be -- let the perfection be the perfection be the enemy of the good. Let's make sure we stay focused on how bad this president is.
And then he reminded us of what a president should do. That he should actually govern. He should have his heart in the right place. And you know, he is able to talk about Joe Biden as both a person as his friend and as a leader and someone who sat with him for eight years.
[22:30:06] I thought he did that really well tonight and I think he's going to do that for the next 20 days as well as his wife who let's not forget, is as or more popular than he is. The two most popular political figures in America on the campaign trail.
And tonight, you saw the power of Barack Obama to just reason through these things and help us think about why this election is so important.
LEMON: It was good not to have someone yelling at us, you know, obfuscating and lying quite frankly.
So, President Obama was asked whether President Trump is an aberration or the next phase of the Republican Party built on racial grievance, cruelty, and Fox News conspiracy theories. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think that Trump is expressing or mirroring, and in some ways, explicitly exploited and took on the crazy that was being pumped out through these venues each and every day. And if that stuff is still being pumped out and Trump goes away someone else will meet that market demand. But on the other hand, do I think that that is inevitably who -- what the Republican Party has to be? No. I don't think it does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Biden and Obama are both very careful to make sure that they don't paint all Republicans with the Trump brush. Does President Obama believe there will be a reckoning among Republicans if President Trump loses?
MESSINA: Well, I think there's going to have to be. Right? They will have just lost the presidency. And any party is going to go through that reckoning and try to figure out how to move forward.
But let's just be clear. He's right about, you know, this isn't just about Trump. This isn't just, you know, every Senate candidate has taken on these crazy policies that he's talking about. They are talking about the same hateful rhetoric.
The patriots that used to be in the Republican Party, the John McCain's of the world are gone. And there's no one standing up to him to say some of the stuff is absolutely not acceptable. His behavior is not acceptable. His party has jumped in right with him.
I think there are some people in Washington who think that we're all just going to go back to the way we used to be.
LEMON: Right.
MESSINA: And if we're going to continue this race towards the bottom here and I think that is what the president was saying tonight, if we're going to continue to pump out this hate, then there's candidates who are going to find it and try to exploit it. I think the Republican Party has to face, you know, what they've become and decide like any losing party does -- we went through this four years ago as you chronicled it very well, and the Democrats made a decision to go back to the center with Joe Biden to win the presidency.
The question is in November after they lose, what is the modern Republican Party going to say? What is Mitch McConnell going to do?
LEMON: Yes. Well, that's going to be interesting to watch. Jim, will you come back and talk more strategy as this election day nears? I hope you will.
MESSINA: Any time.
LEMON: Thank you. So good to see you. And I appreciate you coming on. Thanks.
President Obama has got a theory about why Donald Trump started saying that he wasn't born here. We're going to tell you what he is saying about the racist lie birtherism, that's next.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Let's talk more about the former President Barack Obama about to hit the campaign trail for Joe Biden in the remaining few weeks before election day. Well tonight, Obama says that President Trump was initially complimentary about his first few years in office but then along came birtherism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I was just looking through some of the old stuff about -- Trump was really complimentary of me for like, the first two years. Yes. Obama seems like he's doing a great job, you know? And essentially what happened, because the guy just decided he wanted attention, right, whether it was to promote celebrity apprentice or whatever.
He starts up, he looked and saw what was being fed and he said, if that's -- if that's what folks want, I can do that with even less inhibition. Right? So, with even less of a -- I don't need a dog whistle. I'm just going to go ahead and say it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
OBAMA: And I'll just, you know, that's how the whole birtherism schtick came about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's discuss now. CNN's Senior Political Reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson is here, and CNN political commentator Keith Boykin. Hello to both of you. Good to see you.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Hey, hey.
LEMON: So that, Nia, that birtherism schtick as the former president calls it is what launched Trump's political career. President Obama is now trying to end it. But he knows he also galvanizes Trump voters. What's the calculation here, Nia?
HENDERSON: I think the calculation is that he can speak to some of those voters who stayed home in 2016. Four million people who voted for Obama in 2012 didn't show up in 2016. So, I think that's the universe of voters he can talk to African-American voters, Latino voters, younger voters, all the voters that Biden isn't doing great with at this point.
Biden has his own coalition. It's older. It's whiter. It is probably, it could be a winning coalition. We'll see in November. But he also needs the share of African-American voters to go up. It declined by about seven points from 2016 to 2012. Black people participated in something like 60 percent in 2012 and something like seven points lower than that in 2016. So, I think that's where he can really focus. And you see him starting to go out there at this point and trying to do that.
[22:40:02]
LEMON: Keith, the former president says Trump just wanted attention. But that sort of racial resentment is what helped him win in 2016. Is that a fear you think this time around?
KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's not gone away. It's actually gotten worse. And Donald Trump has exacerbated that with his attacks on various groups of people, the racism and the direction of the coronavirus. Just the way he approached his conduct in office in general has not inspired confidence.
I think right up to the last minute and the last days of the campaign where he is using this campaign talking about suburban women and trying to beg and plead for their support overtly making racist comments that he is protecting them from people like me, people who are people of color.
I just think it is very disturbing. This is a guy who never apologized for birtherism. He never apologized for his Central Park 5 lie. He didn't apologize after Charlottesville or for calling NFL players SOBs. He didn't even apologize after he called black countries S- holes. He has a history of racially, incendiary, actually racist remarks and never apologized for it and his base never holds him accountable.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon. We'll have you back to talk a lot more as we lead up to the election.
HENDERSON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Record hospitalizations all across the country. Coronavirus cases in every state trending in the wrong direction. And the president's embracing herd immunity to get rid of the virus. My next guest says that is another word for mass murder.
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It is very important that you sit here and watch and listen to every single word I say because the United States is continuing to lose ground in the fight against the coronavirus.
We are averaging more than 51,000 new cases per day across the United States. Take a look at our trend map. Not a single state in green. The best we can say is 14 states are holding steady. Man, is that sad.
Meanwhile, during a call with the reporters on Monday, senior administration officials discussed embracing a controversial declaration written by some scientists, the great Barrington Declaration as it is called advocates for ending lockdowns, building immunity, and pushing for those who are supposedly not vulnerable to COVID-19 to resume normal life.
This plan is essentially the same herd immunity strategy that experts have been shooting down since the pandemic began. Now 80 scientists are condemning the idea calling it a dangerous fallacy.
A letter published by the Lancet Medical Journal says this. They write this. Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed. Uncontrolled transmission in younger people risks significant morbidity and mortality across the whole population.
The fact that we're still talking about herd immunity seven months into this pandemic proves that the president learned nothing from his own battle with COVID. We are right back to where we started. The proof of that? Here is what Trump and controversial White House Coronavirus adviser Dr. Scott Atlas were saying about herd immunity before the president tested positive for the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It would go away without the vaccine, George. But it's going to go away a lot faster --
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: It would go away without the vaccine?
TRUMP: Sure. Over a period of time. Sure. With time it goes away.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And many deaths.
TRUMP: And you'll develop, you'll develop herd, like a herd mentality. It is going to be -- it's going to be herd developed and that's going to happen. That will all happen.
SCOTT ATLAS, TRUMP CORONAVIRUS ADVISER: We like the fact that there's a lot of cases in low risk populations because that's exactly how we're going to get herd immunity, population immunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: How can the President of the United States be that ignorant? It's worth noting Atlas has denied ever advocating for herd immunity strategy for a herd immunity strategy, but clearly, the ideas you just heard him share in that interview play right into that. And now the president is out on the trail saying he feels like superman and calling himself immune.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'll tell you what. We have, the vaccines are coming soon, the therapeutics, and frankly, the cure. All I know is I took something and whatever the hell it was I felt good very quickly.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: I don't know what it was. Antibodies. Antibodies. I don't know. I took it. I said, I felt like superman.
One great thing about being president if you're not feeling a hundred percent you have more doctors than you thought existed in the world. I was surrounded with like, 14 of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Snake oil. Snake oil salesman. The president now has no choice because you see he got the coronavirus by refusing to follow the rules his own public health experts say worked. Wearing a mask, social distancing. He won't do that. He'd rather risk all of our lives promoting a risky, dangerous fallacy.
Next, the expert who compared herd immunity to mass murder. William Haseltine explains, next.
[22:50:00]
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LEMON: Herd immunity is being called a dangerous fallacy and highly unethical in a letter from 80 scientists.
I want to bring in William Haseltine, a former professor at Harvard Medical School. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.
This is really important because people who need to know the truth about this, as I said, it's dangerous. Earlier today, you compared herd immunity, the strategy, to mass murder. Here's what other experts have said about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: If everyone contacted it, even with the relatively high percentage of people who are without symptoms, Matthew, a lot of people are going to die. TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH
ORGANIZATION: Allowing a dangerous virus that we don't fully understand to run free is simply unethical. Letting the virus circulate unchecked, therefore means allowing unnecessary infections, suffering and death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Exactly how devastating would, pursuing herd immunity be for this country?
WILLIAM HASELTINE, FORMER PROFESSOR, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: Well, it would be totally devastating. I lived through the epidemic in New York where there were body bags in the streets. Some of them were my friends. Hospitals were overrun.
[22:55:01]
That would be mild compared to letting this virus run loose, as is being proposed. That hasn't happened I think ever in history, even in the middle ages. People had quarantines. At the turn of the last century in 1918, 1919, people wore masks. There were people who were trying to control the epidemic as best they could.
The philosophy fits with a government that doesn't want to do much, doesn't want to acknowledge it. But it is a deadly, dangerous philosophy. It can easily result in two or three million Americans dying, or more, without avail because for these viruses there's no guarantee that, like the flu, it won't come back next year and do exactly the same thing. This is a very dangerous, murderous philosophy.
LEMON: So, who are the people advocating, William, for this herd immunity strategy? Are they credible?
HASELTINE: They're not credible. They're people who are satisfying, I believe, a political need, a need for a government that has not done what they should to protect the American people. It is a philosophy or a belief not based in any reality, based in a terrible callousness for human life that if you just let the virus run free, it will burn itself out.
There is no guarantee these coronaviruses have been around for a long time, coronaviruses like this. They come back every year and infect 5 percent to 10 percent of the population every year. So, that is not a recipe for happiness in this country. It's a recipe for continued death.
LEMON: William Haseltine. Thank you, sir. I'll see you soon. We'll be right back.
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