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Don Lemon Tonight

Arnold Schwarzenegger on the State of the 2020 Race; Trump, Biden Take Questions in Dueling Town Halls; Trump Again Refuses to Denounce QAnon; Fact-Checking Trump and Biden Town Hall Events; Biden on Supreme Court Expansion; Trump Dodges Questions about Roe V. Wade; CNN's Silence is Not an Option; Stark Contrast Between President Trump and Joe Biden on Display in Dueling Town Halls; Chris Christie Says He was Wrong not to Wear Mask in White House; Republican Sen. Ben Sasse Criticizes President Trump on Policies, Ethics. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 15, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

FMR. GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R-CA): Government was not prepared for this disaster and for this virus. Even though they knew that there was a break up, because I remember end of December when I was appearing either in television, there was this enormous break up in China and that it would mostly likely spread all over the world.

So everyone knew at that point already. So there was no Governor was ready to go with this whole thing. They all were caught with their, you know, by surprise. No hospital was ready really to go. The federal government was not ready for this kind of attack of the virus.

No state -- I mean, it was amazing that -- I remember that I was sitting and said, wait a minute, nobody has protective gear. Hospitals don't have protective gear. The federal government does not protective gear. The state doesn't have it, the city doesn't have it. What's going on here?

And so, I put in a million dollars to buy some protective gear for some of the important hospital here in Los Angeles area that I was familiar with. And so in order to get those guys jump started and help them. But I mean, it's crazy when you think about that.

And I think that what happened is that we see that some of our systems really don't work as well as the systems in other countries, like, for instance, when you pass a law in Austria it is a law that is for the entire country. When you pass a law in Germany it's for the entire country.

It's not even a question about this district and this school district, does this, and this school district does that, and they have this kind of study, they had that kind of study and all messed up. It's a mishmash of different things that doesn't work. It is like a team cannot have (inaudible) --

(CROSSTALK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Governor, with all due respect, I got to say that if you look at most developed nations there are some hot spots that are happening in developed nations now if you look to Europe and other places. But most developed nations have lower death rates. They had buy-in from the public. Their leaders took it seriously. If they didn't at first, they started to.

But this president now, though, is still having crowds and super spreader events and worried about adoring fans and ratings. He is using his recovery from the coronavirus to sort of project a strong man image. You know that. You have a history with him. You took over the apprentice from him. I mean, what is going on here? Can you take us inside his thinking? Do you know?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I cannot go inside his head and tell you what he's thinking and why he's doing that and why he is in denial of this whole thing. I have no idea. But I tell you one thing, if I would have been there, I would have brought the country together, Democrats and Republicans, and passed national laws so that we have one uniformity.

I mean one kind of law for the whole country, every state, because even though there is not hot spot in one state or another state, people are traveling. People travel from New York to Los Angeles, from Los Angeles to Phoenix, from Phoenix to Atlanta, from Atlanta to Columbus, Ohio, that's how it goes.

So, they're carrying the virus around and they are infecting everyone, even though it isn't there originally. So, I think we have to have a national policy. Those policies work very well in European countries and also in Asian countries. And that's what we have to have but there is no one is there yet come together in Washington, which is, of course, a whole another subject when we talk about inefficiency in Washington, how they get nothing done.

But not only the coronavirus, but if it has to do with building infrastructure or taking care of our immigration, disaster that we have, and we need immigration reform our health care disaster, all those kind of things. They are not taking care of it. They can't get anything done, and this has now really kind of shown with the coronavirus how it has spread because they're not coming together, Democrats and Republicans, and solving this problem. It's not a political issue. They're making it a political issue.

LEMON: And masks as well.

SCHWARZENEGGER: You can't say it doesn't exist, Democrats say it's terrible. I mean, it's like why are we talking about parties here in the first place?

LEMON: Yes. Listen, I may have misspoken, I don't know if I did. I may have said developing. I meant developed nations. So, listen, I've got to ask you, because I'm not sure if you know this, but -- and I heard this lie, I'm a Howard Stern super fan. Last year when asked on Howard Stern on the Howard Stern show if you were going to vote for President Trump, you said, I doubt it. So has that changed? Will you be voting for Joe Biden?

SCHWARZENEGGER: You know something that I'm not going to go and make an announcement here today. I want people to walk away from this show and say, Schwarzenegger helped voting places to open up. He is putting his money down. That's a great immigrant. He is participating. He is moving the country forward in the right direction. He doesn't just talk about it, he's doing something about it. That's the bottom line.

And to me, at this hour, you know, our event we're going to have at the USC Schwarzenegger Institute is also one of those things, but I don't want to get involved in this Democrats against Republicans. I invited speakers from both parties. There's Al Sharpton will be having a long discussion, Eric Holder who was, you know, the Attorney General (inaudible) --

[23:05:05]

LEMON: Let me tell people what it is.

SCHWARZENEGGER: -- who is now the Obama administration. We include everyone. And police chiefs, in academics, and everyone is included in this in order to really get this to talk about the issue of equality.

LEMON: Let me tell people what it is, right, so that you can elaborate on it more. This is very important to both of us. In collaboration with Al Sharpton online platform twitch, you are hosting a summit that's focused on racial equity. It's starting tomorrow. So tell me, what is it and what is your goal?

SCHWARZENEGGER: My goal is that we through this case with George Floyd, it has become really kind of a front and center kind of a subject in America that we don't have equality. And, you know, and the sad story is that it doesn't matter what administration is in power and who is in power in Washington. Democrats and Republicans really have moved forward the whole, you know, agenda on this whole thing to create equality.

They have had many shots to do it and they haven't done it and so now it is time that we talk about it and that we put together a blueprint because, as, you know, people have said in the past, that dialogue doesn't really help solving it if we don't have a clear blue print on this whole thing.

And so we have to have a plan, and this is what we're putting together this next three days with all those brain power that we have from both parties and try to put together a plan on what needs to be done because, the equality sucks in America. I've seen it firsthand when I was Governor.

I mean, in education alone, when you go to a school where black people, the black children are, I mean, the school looks run down. It wasn't financed the right way because they are relying on property taxes and the property taxes in poor neighborhoods is so much less than it is in Beverley Hills or Santa Monica. So, how can they build the same kind of school with the same kind of quality teachers and all that stuff?

It is bogus. As a matter of fact, I even went with the ACLU which is very unusual thing for me to do, to go with the ACLU and to settle a case, the Williams case in order to give children equal education in California. And everyone in Sacramento fought me on this whole thing, and then we got it done.

So I am much very strong advocate for equal education, equal opportunities, equal in everything and there's just so much inequality. If it is buying a house, if it is going getting a loan, if it is securing the loan, if it is education, if it is voting, if it is, you know, the criminal justice, and the list goes on and on and on, and we have to get in there and dig in and talk about it in an honest way, and then solve those problems once and for all and move the agenda forward.

I mean, think about it. This is 2020. And we still haven't gotten rid of the lynching law. I mean, its like -- hello, what's going on here? So, I mean, look in the last 20 years we avoid Republicans (inaudible), we have Democrats (inaudible) and we have the Republicans there. So, it's like -- it's crazy. They've got to move these things forward and create true equality.

LEMON: We need more people like you in Washington, in this country. I've got to tell you, I love everything you said. Two things. Sometimes, you know, you see celebrities and they just tweet or Instagram or whatever. You actually do things. And you put your money where your mouth is and I really appreciate you use your platform for the right thing. I'm so happy that you came on.

I have to tell you what you were saying about education and property values, I have a podcast called silence is not an option. You should listen to it. I did an episode on that where we talk specifically about what you're saying not too long ago.

And I also have one coming out -- that came out today that deals with why people should vote. The two subjects that you discussed. Governor, thank you. Please come back any time. I would love to have you. Thank you.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I will. Thank you very much. Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

SCHWARZENEGGER: Thank you.

LEMON: 19 days until Election Day, everyone. That was the Governor, former Governor of California. Did you hear what he had to say? Bringing people together, amazing. We need more people like him.

So it's 19 days till Election Day. President Trump, Joe Biden in dueling town halls tonight after the second presidential debate which was supposed to be held tonight. It's what canceled when the president refused to do it virtually.

Both candidates facing tough questions from voters, Trump angry and combative in his town hall, continuing his pattern of stoking divisions. Biden calling for unity and bipartisanship in America in 2020. So where do we go from here? Let's discuss now. CNN's political Director Mr. David Chalian and our

senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Thank you so much, both of you for joining us.

[23:10:04]

We need more people like Governor Schwarzenegger in Washington. I hope he gets what he wants done when it comes to racial justice and when it comes to voting.

So, David, I'm going to start with you. 19 days to go until Election Day and voters got these dueling town hall instead of a debate. That shows a divide in America. Did anyone come out on top tonight, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It's hard to say that I think anything really moved where the electorate is in this race. But these two town halls I think sort of get at the two totally different universes that these candidates are existing in as they're making their closing arguments.

Joe Biden's town hall, tons of policy substance, taking his time, answering every question afterwards. Trying, you know, critiquing the president's management of the coronavirus pandemic as is the thrust of his campaign message. But doing the gamut on taxes, on race, on criminal justice. He sort of just went through a whole litany of policy positions.

Donald Trump's universe was what we've seen from Donald Trump, Don, for 3.5 years, which is stoking the base, sending out signals, you know, not dismissing QAnon, not totally denouncing that as a nutty conspiracy theory that it is. Instead, acting like he doesn't know about it, which makes no sense obviously.

LEMON: He also didn't know when his last negative test was, but go on.

CHALIAN: Exactly. And you know, and so, and he's still questioning the science around wearing masks. He's throwing his FBI Director -- I mean, this is just -- we got the regular Trump show. We did not get an incumbent president who is behind for his battle for reelection trying to use this platform tonight to really upend the trajectory of this race. That we did not get.

LEMON: Well, it's interesting when -- if you watch the former vice- president, it sounded like a president. And if you watch Donald Trump, it did not sound like a president, it sounds like reality TV show person which is what he was before.

Nia, you know, did President Trump do anything to help his campaign here? I mean, he still can't say, as I mention, when he last tested negative or had a COVID test. He didn't deny or if he had it before the last debate, he didn't deny this The New York Times story on his taxes. And while he did denounce white supremacy, he seemed angry and quickly pivoted to Antifa.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I mean, frankly, he seemed angry and combative the whole time. I mean, he was on a 10 and you saw Savannah Guthrie there trying to fact check him in real-time by comparison. I think, David is exactly right, Biden was very calm. It was sort of a relaxing atmosphere. And I think for viewers it was the same way for viewers of Biden versus Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is behind in all of the demographics that Republicans do well in, older voters. Some polls even have him behind by double digits among white voters. He's not going to be able to win if he's not able to do well in those demographics. It also -- I think wasn't a good look to be so combative in that setting with Savannah Guthrie, with a woman as he is struggling so terribly with women.

So, it was not a good look for him tonight. I think in some ways it's a preview of what we'll probably see in this next debate. He is not using these venues, at least so far, to gain any ground on Biden. He is just being Trump. The Trumpiest of Trump I think we saw tonight and I imagine that's what we'll see next week as well.

LEMON: David, one answer that sure has people talking tonight from the president, here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is this theory that Democrats are satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior of that. Now can you just once and for all state that that is completely not true and disavow QAnon in its entirety?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know nothing about QAnon --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just told you.

TRUMP: I know very least -- you told me, but what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They believe it is a satanic cult run by the deep state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I mean, David, this is just going to embolden the nuttiness of that group and people -- come on.

CHALIAN: Well, you know, the last time he was asked about this, he seemed to know something else about QAnon, which is that many of its supporters and believers seem to like him.

LEMON: Well, he just said he knew nothing about them, but I know that they -- they're against pedophilia. I thought he knew nothing about it. So, it contradicted himself in saying -- (inaudible)

(CROSSTALK)

CHALIAN: Right, but he got to the very core issue at the center of the conspiracy theory. So, he seemed to know, he seemed to know something about it.

[23:15:07]

And, you know, this is classic Donald Trump, too, right? He never wants to sort of give the stiff arm to any -- no matter how fringe, if there is a level of support or appreciation for him. And he doesn't want to offend that in any way.

LEMON: Interesting. Thank you both. I appreciate it. I got to get to the fact check now. Thank you. I appreciate it. Resident fact checker Daniel Dale. Daniel, boy oh, boy, oh boy, I hope you drank lots of water, because you've got a lot to talk about. This evening's town hall President Trump made multiple false claims. He claimed that the CDC said 85 percent of people who wear masks get coronavirus. Give us a fact check.

DANIEL DALE, CNN FACT CHECKER: So, this CDC study, Don, did not even look at the percentage of people who wear masks that get the coronavirus. That just not what it was about. So what it did find was that of 154 people it was studying in July who had the coronavirus, about 71 percent of those people said that they always wore masks in the previous 14 days before their illness came on and about 14 percent said that they often wore masks.

So that is not what the president said. In addition, there's lots of problems with asserting that this says that masks are bad or something. Number one, we don't know how often those often people wore it. Number two, even a bunch of those always people also admitted that they had eaten at restaurants during those 14 days. You can't really eat at a restaurant with your mask.

And number three, we know that the primary purpose of mask is to prevent infection among other people, not yourself, although it does provide some protection. So, even if some of those people did get infected while wearing masks, that doesn't mean that masks don't work at all.

LEMON: So much to talk about, Daniel. But you know, I have a short time. So thank you for that one.

DALE: No problem.

LEMON: We'll see you soon. Get some rest.

So, who had a better night tonight? The president or Joe Biden, the former vice president? And did their voters like what they heard? We'll see next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

LEMON: So, one of the biggest questions Joe Biden faced in the town hall tonight was whether he would support a push to add seats to the Supreme Court. Here's how he answered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm not a fan -- I didn't say -- it depends on how this turns out. Not how he wins, but how it's handled, how it's handled. But there's a number of things that are going to be coming up and there's going to be a lot of discussion about other alternatives as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't voters have a right to know where --

BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. I have a right to know where I stand before they vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you'll come out with a clear position before Election Day?

BIDEN: Yes, depending on how they handle this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So joining me now senior political analyst Kirsten Powers, CNN political commentator Mike Shields. I appreciate both of you joining us. I think if you watch, you know how I feel about this, you know, expanding the court question, and I think it's a red herring and you know, we need to focus on things that happen now.

But since he answered and he said he's coming out with a clear position, I think it is now time to ask this question. So, Kirsten, Biden, you know, is he at risk of alienating progressives with a noncommittal answer?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, it sounds like he's going to make a committal answer, so I think that he's been trying to avoid that because honestly, I think he's conflicted about it. It's something that I think is a perfectly defensible position and it's certainly the position of progressives.

But it's not necessarily something that is the position of moderate Democrats, which Biden is contrary to what the Trump people tell you. So, he's in a little bit of a pickle, I think. And I think the truth is he doesn't really know exactly what he would do and he's sort of been trying to buy himself some time.

LEMON: Well, he said we're going to find out before the Election Day. Let's listen to the president on Roe V. Wade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you like to see Roe V. Wade overturned?

TRUMP: I would like to see a brilliant jurist, a brilliant person who has done this in great depth that has actually skirted this issue for a long time make a decision. And that's why I chose her. I think that she's going to make a great decision. I did not tell her what decision to make and I think it would be inappropriate to say right now because I don't want to do anything to influence her. I want her to get approved and then I want her to go by the law. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most Pro-life Republicans would like to see Roe

V. Wade overturned and abortion ban.

TRUMP: Many of them would.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible).

TRUMP: Most of them would. I am telling you I don't want to do anything to influence anything right now. I don't want to go out tomorrow and say, oh, he's trying to give her a signal, because I didn't speak to her about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Mike, he's answered this question before on Roe V. Wade. Why such a dodgy answer there?

SHIELDS: Because he has a nominee in front of the Senate before the Supreme Court. That's why. I thought it was a great answer. That was very disciplined. You know, as many times we come on here and we have a conversation about how some of those answers, you know, we may have wish for more discipline. I thought that was very disciplined. I thought it was exactly the right thing to say. You know, I think it's amazing what we were just talking about with the court packing issue --

LEMON: Wait. Hold on, hold on. I just want some more clarity on you thought it was disciplined and amazing because?

SHIELDS: Because he didn't get trapped into talking about -- we all know he's pro-life. But he has a nominee in front of the Senate for the Supreme Court, that's one of the lines of questioning of the Senators of this nominee was how she would rule on things to try and pin her down as is tradition. Court nominees when they come before the Senate don't tell you how they're going to rule because you're asking them a hypothetical on a case and the president was --

LEMON: It sounds like he was disciplined enough not to give an honest answer.

SHIELDS: He was disciplined enough not to get sucked into a question when he has a nominee in front of the Senate over you know, because what it's going to look like is, well, yes, I'm pro-life and so obviously that's why I want Roe V. Wade overturned. And that's how obviously why I nominated this person. And that's kind of a gotcha question. And I thought it was a great answer from him.

[23:25:04]

POWERS: That's not why he gave the answer that he gave.

SHIELDS: People, those who already know the president of United States is pro-life.

POWERS: He gave the answer that he gave.

SHIELDS: There's no, there's absolutely no mistake -- sure.

(CROSSTALK)

POWERS: OK. Well, he was actually asked what he would want and he didn't answer it, but it's the position of the Republican Party, it's in the Republican Party platform to overturn Roe V. Wade. The president, yes, is very clear that he supports that and that he's appointing justices to do that.

And so, but the reason he answered the question the way that he did was -- had nothing to do with the fact that he has a nominee in front of the Supreme Court and everything to do with the fact that the majority of Americans don't want Roe V. Wade overturned.

So, this is a very dicey political issue for them. In particular for suburban women voters who they really need to stick with them and to vote for them. And so he just didn't want to answer the question because it would be politically difficult for him.

LEMON: All right. More to come. We'll talk more. Thank you very much.

Listen, I want to make sure that you know about my podcast, Silence is not an option. I'm taking on hard questions about being black in America. Also talking about voting rights. So, that's what this week's episode is.

So over the next few weeks, we'll be talking about the election, voting and social justice. So this episode, why vote, it's called why vote. You can find it on Apple Podcast or your favorite podcast app.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let me ask you, is voting really the most effective path to change you think?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is one of many ways. When you're talking about building a robust democracy, you need many, many access points and many tools. You know, and I think that we have to be honest about it. We have to be honest that voting is not the panacea. It will not solve all of the problems in our community. But I think we also have to recognize that voting is certainly a leverage of power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And up next, a lot of people are pretty angry at NBC for holding the Trump town hall at the same time as Biden's. Some say the network was manipulated by the president. Plus two very different views on the coronavirus pandemic at the town halls tonight. We're going to bring you the facts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: So President Trump and Joe Biden each answering questions in simultaneous town halls tonight. Was this a good idea with less than three weeks to go before Election Day or did voters lose out when the second debate, which was scheduled for tonight, was cancelled because Trump refused to take part in a virtual format?

I want to bring in now CNN's chief media correspondent Mr. Brian Stelter. Brian, hello. Good see you.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.

LEMON: So, this was the first real T.V. interview for the president since he was sick. Was this the first time that he has been challenged?

STELTER: I think it was. You look at the past week or so, he called in to a bunch of Fox shows, he called in to a bunch of radio shows, he briefly appeared on camera for this and that, but he hasn't been with a real journalist in a tough interview since he was infected with coronavirus two weeks ago.

So it is notable that Savannah Guthrie was able to ask about his testing history, about his symptoms, about his feelings about masks. Even though he was evasive and he gave dangerous answers on these questions by downplaying the use of masks and all of that, at least he did give a chance for a journalist to ask for questions.

By the way, Don, I don't think he'll do it again between now and Election Day. This is probably his last big interview before Election Day. Yes, there's a debate in a week and hopefully he'll show up for that debate, but in terms of reporter being able to sit down and ask him questions over and over and over again, this was an important dialogue.

And, of course, even all that turmoil inside NBC, all the anger toward NBC about having this town hall, at least she was able to ask real questions.

LEMON: Well, good on her for that, but it doesn't erase this bogus move that NBC pulled, a pure ratings ploy because they could have aired that on a different day, at a different time. Their excuses and explanations about why they did it at the same time just didn't add up.

Ok, so listen, what about the QAnon moment with the president?

STELTER: This was the most -- my colleague said it's the most horrifying moment of this event, when he's talking about QAnon, giving kind of support for QAnon by not denouncing it, by seeming to encourage QAnon supporters and believers to buy into this cult.

I think that's going to haunt us, Don. It's going to be with us for a long time. It's probably the most memorable moment from this town hall because the president is not saying what any politician knows to say, which is, I have nothing to do with this crazy cult, I have nothing to do with these insane conspiracy theories. Instead, he is giving it safe harbor. That's what he's doing over and over again.

LEMON: So the president once again defended, retweeting outlandish conspiracy theories. Listen to this.

STELTER: Mm-hmm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, AMERICAN BROADCASTER: Just this week, you retweeted to your 87 million followers a conspiracy theory that Joe Biden orchestrated to have SEAL Team 6, the Navy SEAL Team 6 killed to cover up the fake death of bin Laden. Now, why would you send a lie about that to your followers?

TRUMP: I know nothing about it.

GUTHRIE: You retweeted it.

TRUMP: That was a retweet. That was an opinion of somebody --

GUTHRIE: But --

TRUMP: -- and that was a retweet. I'll put it out there. People can decide for themselves.

GUTHRIE: I don't get that.

TRUMP: I don't take a position.

GUTHRIE: You're the president. You're not like someone's crazy uncle who gets to retweet whatever.

TRUMP: No, no, no. That was a retweet. And I do a lot of retweets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I just feel like -- that -- I know Savannah pushed -- I feel like we're wasting our breath. We've heard those answers before. We heard all of that before. He said nothing --

STELTER: Yes.

LEMON: -- new and nothing different. He said -- he always says when he gets, you know, caught --

STELTER: Cornered, yes.

LEMON: -- cornered about retweeting something that is racist or misogynist or sexist. And he says, it was just retweet. He said that before.

STELTER: I don't believe -- I don't believe there's any actual undecided voter left. I think most voters actually made up their mind in 2017, the first six months of the Trump presidency. Because you're right, all these behaviors and habits were on display back then.

[23:35:00]

STELTER: This is why so many commentators have said that no other person in American life, no CEO, no airplane pilot, no person, would be able to hold the job if President Trump was not president. Anybody else with this kind of management, with this kind of leadership in position, would have been removed, because everyone knows that a retweet is something irresponsible for.

Earlier today, the moderator of the debate that was supposed to happen, C-SPAN's Steve Scully, he was suspended because he lied about tweeting something. He said it was hacked. He actually tweeted it. He was punished. C-SPAN suspended him.

There are usually consequences in public life when you make a mistake, when you screw up, when you deceive the public. And that is what happened to Scully.

But it just never happens to this president because he is in charge of the country. He can be the conspiracy theorist in chief and there is no consequence except once every four years.

And again, that is why I say, I think most minds were made up back in 2017.

LEMON: Thank you, Brian.

STELTER: Thanks.

LEMON: Appreciate it. So, 35 states are hitting an all-time high in coronavirus cases. But the president tonight is spreading false information about wearing masks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tonight, 35 states are seeing spikes in coronavirus. The U.S. is reporting nearly 60,000 new cases on Wednesday. And the crisis is front and center in the dueling town halls tonight. Stark contrast, though, between President Trump and the former vice president, Joe Biden, in how to respond to this pandemic.

Let's discuss now with CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is the director of the cardiac catheterization lab at George Washington University Hospital. Doctor, good to see you once again.

So, President Trump is repeating a false claim about masks tonight, refusing to answer whether he supports herd immunity. Meanwhile, we heard from Chris Christie, spent seven days in the ICU after contracting COVID, he released a statement that reads in part, and I quote here. "I was wrong. I was wrong to not wear a mask at the Amy Coney Barrett announcement. And I was wrong not to wear a mask at my multiple debate prep sessions with the president and the rest of the team. I hope that my experience shows my fellow citizens that you should follow CDC guidelines in public no matter where you are and wear a mask to protect yourself and others."

Wow! Nothing at all like that we heard from the president.

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION PROGRAM AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Right. It sounds like Governor Christie had an awakening. You know, you see this sometimes in people after a hospital stay. They re-evaluate where they've been and where they want to go. And a lot of what he said actually touched me.

It sounded sort of both humble and angry at the same time when he started talking about how, you know, he believed he'd be safe at the White House but he wasn't, you know, he should have worn a mask when he went to the SCOTUS announcement, he should have worn a mask at the debate prep. He sounded like he had been betrayed, that he had been told that it was safe and it wasn't.

It was sort of a confession. It was, it was -- the tone of the statement was what we all hoped we would hear from the president's VIP suite at Walter Reed when he was recovering, telling the country that, you know, I'm glad I'm getting better, but let me tell you that this is no joke, we need to protect ourselves, we need to wear masks, we need to social distance, don't let this happen to you.

We didn't get that from the president. We got this (INAUDIBLE). We sort of did get this from Governor Christie, so good for him.

LEMON: The president was asked about Christie's comments tonight. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, I mean, he has to say that. I think it's great. He's a friend of mine. He's a good guy. And wrong or not wrong -- you have to understand, as president, I can't be locked in a room someplace for the next year and just stay and do nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Wow! Doesn't sound like he's too concerned about his friend there or that he actually learned anything from being sick.

REINER: Yes, but it's a lack -- he's demonstrating a lack of insight. What he's saying when he says he can't be locked in a room, he's saying that the reason he got COVID was that, you know, he had to be a man of the people, he had to be out, you know, in the United States taking care of business.

When the truth is he contracted COVID because he never wore a mask when he went out. And he never wore a mask in the White House. And he wasn't tested every day. And they relied on this false sense of security using tests the way they were never intended to be used. He didn't get COVID because he was conducting the country's business. He got COVID because he was stubborn and foolish. That's really the truth.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. And when he's at those events or when he's out there, he's not -- he's socially distancing. Usually, he is not -- people don't really get that close to him. So, he must have gotten it from somewhere, probably in his inner circle.

REINER: Right.

LEMON: We don't know for sure, but likely. Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure.

LEMON: President Trump and Joe Biden answering questions from voters tonight, and the way they spoke with these voters show just how different they are.

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[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A stark contrast between President Trump and Joe Biden in their dueling town halls tonight. I want to discuss now with CNN contributor Frank Bruni, a columnist for The New York Times, and political commentator Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. Hello.

"Gaslighting America," that's the name of her book, right?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Why we love it when Trump gaslights America. Is that the right thing?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR AND SPEECHWRITER FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ: We love it when Trump lies to us.

LEMON: OK, got it.

(LAUGHTER)

CARPENTER: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you. So, Frank, check out how the former vice president, Biden, and President Trump interacted with voters. Watch.

[23:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My youngest daughter is transgender. The Trump administration has attacked the rights of transgender people, banning them from military service, and weakening non-discrimination protections.

BIDEN: I promise you, there is no reason to suggest that there should be any right denied your daughter or daughters, whichever, one or two.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the mother of a young male of color, I have reason to respect authority, not only because it's the right thing to do but also out of fear that he may face profiling or be considered a criminal. As an educator, I've also had similar conversations with my high school students.

Mr. President, what will you and your administration do to better prepare our law enforcement officers to work in collaboration with the communities that they serve and also to protect the lives of innocent black and Latinos from police brutality and injustice?

TRUMP: Right. I fully understand the question. And I saw everything that you saw over the summer and it was a terrible thing, a terrible thing to watch. I have done more for the African-American community than any president, with the exception of Abraham Lincoln.

BIDEN: I hope I answered your question. If you, in fact, and I were the same age and we split our differences and we were the same age, and we went to the same builder to buy us each the same home, but my home was in a white neighborhood on one side of a highway and yours is in a black neighborhood.

Same exact home. Your home will start off being valued 29 percent less than my home. Yet your insurance for that home will be higher. You'll be taxed more for it. We've got to end this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Did you hear what you needed to hear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so.

BIDEN: Well, there's a lot more. If you can hang around afterwards, I'll tell you more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a pro-life millennial, and my question for you today is, if Roe v. Wade is ultimately overturned in the future, what protections would be put in place or kept for where the mother's life is in jeopardy in relation to high-risk pregnancies?

TRUMP: Again, I am not ruling --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: OK. Polar opposites, Frank.

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Total polar opposites, yes. I mean, you know, Don, there are elections where the distinctions between candidates are murky. You know, and you sort of wonder how much of a difference is there. This is not one of those elections. These candidates are night and day. In the way they conducted these town halls tonight, it was night and day, as well.

I mean, Joe Biden is saying, I want to listen to you and I hear you. And Donald Trump, as always, is saying, I want to talk, hear me. Joe Biden is saying, I want to do better by you and other Americans. Donald trump is saying, look how great I've done.

And this is just par for the course. There were no surprises tonight, but I think there was a crystal-clear expression of the choice before American voters.

LEMON: Amanda, you know, GOP Senator Ben Sasse, who is up for re- election, he has confirmed that this is real. I want you to listen to what he told thousands of constituents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE) (voice-over): The way he kisses dictators' butts. I mean, the way he ignores that the Uighurs are in literal concentration camps in Xinjiang right now. He hasn't lifted a finger on behalf of the Hong-Kongers. I mean he and I have a very different foreign policy. It isn't just that he fails to lead our allies it's that we -- the United States now regularly sells out our allies under his leadership."

"The way he treats women and spends like a drunken sailor, the ways I criticize President Obama for that kind of spending; I've criticized President Trump for as well. He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the president like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Wow! I mean, he excoriates him. He just hammers him there. What did you think? Why is he doing this now?

CARPENTER: Yes. My question is, Senator Sasse, where have you been? I've been waiting for that guy to show up for a long time. I mean, listen, in 2016, he was a critic of Donald Trump. He said if the GOP becomes a party of David Duke, I'm out. And he stayed in, every step of the darn way.

And he's up for election this year. But he stayed quiet so he wouldn't draw a primary challenger. And he got the endorsement from Donald Trump. He didn't decline that. He accepted it. And now, now past impeachment, now past everything, when the writing is on the wall that Donald Trump is probably going to go down, he tells his constituents how he really feels?

Man. There are a lot of people. I think we are going to see a lot more of this. There's going to be people like Ben Sasse who come out and say, yes, you know, I had questions, I was angry with him all along. But you didn't lead when it was hard. So don't you dare expect to step up and lead when it is easy.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. So, let me ask you, Frank. You know, on Capitol Hill -- well, let's play this. There's more from Ben Sasse. Let's play this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SASSE: First, he ignored COVID. And then he went into full economic shutdown mode. He was the one who said 10 to 14 days of shutdown would fix this.

[23:55:00]

SASSE: And that was always wrong. I mean, and so I don't think the way he's led through COVID has been reasonable or responsible or right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, he speaks to the total incompetence about what is going on. But I think Amanda has a very good point. Why not say this before, when it could have saved thousands of lives?

BRUNI: Well, I mean, Amanda said something very important, which is they don't want to draw a primary challenge and he wanted to sew up (ph) Donald Trump's endorsement. Those things have been accomplished. Now, I guess he is feeling a little bit freer to speak his mind.

Couple things I want to say here, Don. What the senator is saying here is what many, many Republican senators say behind closed doors. It's what they really think of President Trump. And that's what's so shocking and dispiriting. You're not listening to some late in the game epiphany or conversion.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

BRUNI: You are listening to what Senator Sasse said, you know, a very kind of comprehensive though succinct and eloquent case against Donald Trump that I think any number of Republican senators would make or do make when the microphones are off and when they are not worried about drawing the president's ire.

And the story of this era is about that sort of hypocrisy and contradiction, toeing the line, supporting the president when it's not going to hurt you when in your conscience, you know, and the truth is that you think he is a terrible leader.

LEMON: Yes. I got to run. We are out of time. Thank you both. I appreciate it. We will be right back.

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LEMON: The best part of the night is here. Time now for "Primetime" with C. Cuomo.