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Don Lemon Tonight
Commission On Presidential Debates Not Allowing Interruptions; A Loss For GOP Battle In Supreme Court; Americans Tired Of Pandemic Stress; Coronavirus Surge In 27 States; John Fogerty's Music Not For Trump Rallies. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 19, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: "CNN TONIGHT" with the star, D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: How bad do you feel about yourself after those kids?
CUOMO: I feel great. I feel great that they are not allowing the times to push them down.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I just meant your contribution.
CUOMO: They are rising up.
LEMON: Yes. Yes, they are amazing. I just meant about your contribution and mine as well to society when you look at those kids --
CUOMO: Well, I would feel terrible --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- and leaps and bounds.
CUOMO: -- but relatively because I know you exist, I'm feeling OK.
LEMON: Was that -- was that -- did you have to do that?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: I was trying to be nice.
CUOMO: You said, how do you feel about yourself in a derogatory way? First words out of your mouth.
LEMON: Yes. So how are you feeling?
CUOMO: Better than I deserve. And you? LEMON: That's always your answer. How are you feeling?
CUOMO: That's how I'm feeling.
LEMON: OK. I'm feeling OK. A lot of anxiety out there. Have you encountered that people, my gosh, I don't know what's going to happen?
CUOMO: There was a lot. I felt like that when the check came after lunch.
LEMON: That's why you need to check on Instagram I just posted --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: You should have seen Don Lemon --
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: -- how long it took him to reach for his wallet at lunch yesterday. The bill comes, this is it. No, wait, no, come on, stop. Really. Please, no. It's -- let me just the -- and I'm waiting. Waiting.
LEMON: I'm trying to have a substantive conversation about what's happening.
CUOMO: That was substantive.
LEMON: people don't care about our lunch.
CUOMO: Go ahead. I care.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: But go ahead, what do you want?
LEMON: No, I mean, I just think there's a lot of angst out there, and -- but it's nice to have friends who we can have a meal with and talk about things and get away from the news. Because you know everyone talks to us about what's happening in the news.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: And everyone has the same thing. My gosh, I'm so nervous, whether you're -- whatever side you're on. Right?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: People are concerned and they are nervous, and the country, everyone is so tense right now.
CUOMO: Yes, but I will tell you what. The joke is part of the sav, right? Because the antidote to the anxiety is the recognition that we're all in it together.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: The reason I quoted this poem that, you know, obviously, I got it from my father.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Like many of the -- anything that I have that approaches, anything like virtue that comes out of my mouth. Most of it came from it or from my mother. And there are bad things, there are ugly words. There are ugly deeds. You have one decision to make. Either you become part of it or you reject it and become something better.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And the president is in full toxic mode and it's going to make people scared and with good reason.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: The strength is in in the collective.
LEMON: I got to say to you, and I have to run. When he says things about you, just ignore it. Don't punch down. That's it. I love you. I got to go.
CUOMO: I ignore it, it's the hordes of his followers who act on it.
LEMON: All right. Ignore them as well. Thank you. I'll see you.
CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: Thank you. This CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Here's our breaking news, OK? Everybody, but seriously and before -- and I mean that -- there is a collective anxiety out there. It's just 15 days left. We are going to get through it. No matter what the results are. But I know you are anxious, I know you're nervous because you are e-mailing me, you are calling me, you're texting me.
But om, om, keep calm and carry on. So, let's give you some fact that will help you through these times. I'm -- this is our breaking news right now.
There is a big change in the rules for Thursday's schedule final debate. You want to hear about them. well here's what's going to happen. Each candidate's mic, mics will be cut off while his rival delivers his two- minute opening answer to each debate topic. Interesting, right? It's an effort to prevent the chaos of the first debate so you can actually learn something. Remember how that went?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Wait a minute, Joe. Let me shut you down for a second, just for one second.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Somehow, it's a fraudulent process. TRUMP: It's already been established. Take a look at Carolyn Maloney's
race in --
(CROSSTALK)
CHRIS WALLACE, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: I ask you, you had an opportunity --
TRUMP: Look at Carolyn --
WALLACE: Go ahead.
TRUMP: They have no idea what happened.
WALLACE: Vice president?
BIDEN: We probably would save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.
TRUMP: And they have also said the opposite. They've also said --
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: And no serious person said the opposite.
TRUMP: Don't ever use the word smart with me. Don't ever use that word.
BIDEN: Give me a break.
TRUMP: Because you know what, there's nothing smart about you, Joe.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, when we say that's the end of it. This is the end of this debate.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Chris, I want to see an honest ballot count. And I think he does too.
WALLACE: We're going to leave it there. To be continued.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: How embarrassing. We learned nothing from had that. Right? So, there's also some other breaking news on a big loss for the president at the Supreme Court, OK. The ruling that mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania will be counted if they are received within three days of election day, even if they don't have a legible postmark.
[22:05:01]
All that with election day just two weeks from tomorrow. So, I am sure the president will rant and he is going to rail and he is going to lash out about these developments. Both of them, right? The way he has been all day long, he has been doing it all weekend long, really all presidency long. We are not even one day in to what the president named, guess what,
national character counts week. Remember I said that to you last week and I couldn't believe that it came from this White House? National character counts week, which he kicked off by repeatedly attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci for telling America what the president doesn't want you to hear. You know, he doesn't want you to hear fact, facts about the pandemic that has killed more than 220,000 of us.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
TRUMP: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had and we have COVID. People are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people, these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci is a nice guy, he has been here for 500 years.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: Did you hear that gasp in there when he said that? Whoever did that gasp, that was all of us. We are living in -- we are through the looking glass. It's not even twilight zone. I can't -- it's beyond the looking glass, I have no idea what to call it.
He is attacking the doctor who people trust, who actually, the doctor now who needs security because of credible death threats against him and harassment of his family.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
TRUMP: Every time he goes on television there's always a bomb, but there's a bigger bomb if you fire him. But Fauci is a disaster I mean this guy, if I listen to him, we'd have 500,000 deaths.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So that is a flat out lie. And the real disaster is this president's negligence that has led to the deaths of more than 220,000 Americans on his watch.
Joe Biden who is deep in debate prep putting out a statement today on the president's attacks on Fauci. And I quote here. "Mr. President, you are right about one thing. The American people are tired. They are tired of your lies about this virus. They are tired of watching more Americans die and more people lose their jobs because you refuse to take this pandemic seriously."
That's from the former vice president. But the president just couldn't resist. Reusing that tired of the pandemic line that he has been using. Lashing out at CNN at the same time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They are getting tired of the pandemic. Aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN that's all they covered. COVID, COVID, pandemic, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID. You know why they are trying to talk everybody out of voting. People aren't buying at CNN, you dumb bastards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, interesting. What do you think would happen if we got on television in front of a crowd or if we started calling people dumb bastards, let alone the President of the United States, what do you think the reaction would be?
And can you believe the person who is, who inhabits the Oval Office uses that kind of language against journalists? Maybe he doesn't respect the First Amendment? Why is he swimming in the cable news pool when he is the President of the United States?
Sad. Desperate? So, let me tell you something, Mr. President. We cover the coronavirus and the pandemic because it has killed more than 220,000 Americans. Maybe you don't care about that that. Americans who have been infected who have died, infected more than eight million people, changed all of our lives in unprecedented ways. Right?
People out of work. Economy is tanking. People are dying which is the most important part. All of those things and you are making light of it and you are talking smack at a super spreader event about CNN. Wow.
Is there any work to be done as president at the Oval Office in the White House?
[22:10:00]
So, there is -- they -- what -- you are responsible for the botched response to it. It lies at the president's feet. It lies at your feet. As far as voting we have been covering the lies and attacks on your right to vote and more than 28 million of you have already done that. You have already voted.
But thank you Mr. President for watching, I appreciate it. This Trump super spreader tour, super spreader 2020, it hit Arizona today for a pair of packed rallies with hardly a mask in sight, except right behind him so those people would end up on camera. And he is so intent on his attack strategy that he launched a twofer, taking aim at Joe Biden, while continuing his fact-free assault on Dr. Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, Biden wants to lock it down. He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci. He is going to lockdown. He is going to lockdown. He'll listen to the scientists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, Joe Biden does not want to lock down the country, but Joe Biden does want to listen to Dr. Fauci and the scientists. He wants to listen to the scientists rather than suggesting disinfectant or a powerful light may cure the virus. You know, injection inside the body with a disinfectant and a cleaning.
Joe Biden wants to faces reality rather than lying about turning the corner on the virus when 23 states are trending up in cases. His campaign is taking the virus seriously rather than taking the Trump super spreader tour on the road for crowded campaign rallies in Arizona. A state that is already had more than 230,000 cases of the virus.
This president knows election day is just two weeks from tomorrow. And he is currently behind, Joe Biden out polling him, out raising him. He brought up Biden's money haul, bragged about his own fundraising and then said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I called the head of Exxon. I don't know, you know, I'll use a call. Hi, how are you doing? How is energy coming? When are you doing the exploration? You need a couple of permits, huh? OK? But I called the head of Exxon I say, you know, I'd love you send me $25 million for the campaign. Absolutely, sir. Why didn't you ask, would you like some more?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What? OK. Here's what Exxon says, we are aware of the president's statement regarding a hypothetical call with our CEO. And just so we're all clear, it never happened.
This is his closing argument. What does any of it have to do, what does it do for you and any of the American people? Lashing out at Dr. Fauci, lashing out at Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer just days after the revelation of the foiled plot to kidnap her, allegedly because of her state's coronavirus restrictions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You got to get your governor to open up your state, OK?
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: And get your schools open. Get your schools open. The schools have to be open. Right?
(CROWD CHANTING)
TRUMP: Lock -- lock them all up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Listen to the governor's response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): You know, it's incredibly disturbing that the President of the United States 10 days after a plot to kidnap, put me on trial and execute me, 10 days after that was uncovered, the president is at it again and inspiring and incentivizing and citing this kind of domestic terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Mr. President, have you no shame? Yet, Trump campaign senior adviser and daughter-in-law Laura Trump when asked about the lock her up chants by my colleague Jake Tapper says, it's all just fun and games.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARA TRUMP, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR: Well, look, this is, he wasn't doing anything, I don't think to provoke people to threaten this woman at all. He was having fun at a Trump rally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Is that what's fun for this president? Lying and bullying and threatening? Is that what we want from our president? Perhaps we do. I don't know. Is that what we want? Dancing while Americans are dying. Election day is just 15 days away. We will know soon.
[22:15:00]
A lot more in our breaking news tonight. The debate commission trying to put a stop to the chaos by cutting off each candidate's mic off while his rival gives his two-minute answer to each debate topic.
Plus, a big loss for the president in the Supreme Court and it involves mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania.
Kaitlan Collins, John Avlon here to break it all down after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, we have multiple big breaking news stories tonight. The Supreme Court handing Democrats a victory in Pennsylvania, a key battleground state rejecting an attempt by Republicans to require that only mail-in ballots received by election day would be counted. The court ordering that ballots be counted as long as they are received within three that days of election day.
And then there's a Presidential Debate Commission deciding to mute the candidate's microphones during portions of Thursday's schedule final scheduled debate in an attempt to put a stop to the chaos we saw in the first debate.
A lot to discuss. CNN's White House Correspondent is Kaitlan Collins. She joins us. Our Senior Political Analyst is John Avlon, he joins us as well. Good evening to both.
[22:20:05]
Kaitlan, Pennsylvania, a key battleground state, it's a must win for the president. And he -- he's railed about claims of voter fraud there. This is one of the reasons why he wants his justice seated ASAP in case of more decisions like this or on around election day, am I correct?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you are correct. We are seeing what a difference it would be if Amy Coney Barrett was already on the Supreme Court in this decision. Because of course they -- it would take five justices for them to grant a stay here. She was not there to be that other vote for him, and so that's why we are seeing this proceed where they can have these ballots come in three days after election day if it's clearly, they say, not something that was done at the last minute.
Basically, saying that you can have ballots come in, look at what the days they were males and whatnot and still have come them in those three days after election day. And this is a win for Democrats. This is not something that White House or the Trump campaign or Republicans wanted to see be able to happen.
And it really does go back to this decision about the president putting a justice on the Supreme Court and how that could factor in to further decisions that will look like this had. What are they going to do? And how is it going to work? And so, we'll see how this works with Pennsylvania, it's expected to now be one of the later states to actually report results and of course, as you noted, it's a must win for the president, so we'll see how it plays in to that.
But it definitely does make you realize just why the president and Republicans like the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have pushed to get Amy Coney Barrett confirmed as quickly as they have.
LEMON: John, I want you to check out this poll out of Pennsylvania.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST & ANCHOR: Yes.
LEMON: We'll put it on the screen here. When you break down how people are going to vote, 87 percent of absentee voters say they are voting with Biden. Whereas, a majority of Trump voters planned to vote on election day. So, this decision it could be a big win for Democrats.
AVLON: It could be, but again, it underscores how much how difficult it is that the courts have become politicized. They should be making decisions based on principal.
LEMON: Right.
AVLON: And thank goodness for Chief Justice John Roberts who sided for the Democrats four-four so it defaulted to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Look, you know, the Trump, the Supreme Court has given the Trump campaign some wins on some of these questions.
But you got 300 court challenges right now going on and overwhelmingly the Trump campaign and the Republican Party would seem want to throw more roadblocks in front of people voting. Getting their votes counted, getting their votes cast.
And what you hate to see is partisan attitudes infect the judgment of the judges. That's what we see over and over again. Roberts resisted that temptation. But can't we all agree that we should every eligible voter vote and have their vote counted? Why is that controversial? Why it does need to be litigated?
LEMON: It should not be. You are absolutely right. Kaitlan, listen, the final Trump/Biden debate Thursday and the debate commission is now planning to mute microphones. When I heard it, I was like, man, what is the president going to say about this? What do we know about that, and how is the Trump campaign responding?
COLLINS: So, the president himself hasn't weighed in yet but his campaign did put out a statement after they made this change saying they are still going to show up to the debate, but they don't agree with this last-minute changes as they are calling it from the debate commission.
Though this had been long in the making since that first debate where of course they interrupted each other constantly with the president doing most of the interrupting in that debate.
And so the changes now are not, that it doesn't appear from what we are reading that they can mute at their will, but it will be that they each have two minutes in the beginning of each segment, each topic they are going to see in these debates where Joe Biden can speak for two minutes uninterrupted and Joe -- and Donald Trump can speak for two minutes uninterrupted and then after that, it will be open, both mics will be open.
So, it will try to put some kind of order to this. I mean, we'll see how this actually plays out. Of course, Don, we know how mics work. If there are two people on stage, they aren't that far away. You can hear someone picking up on someone else's mic, so we'll see if they actually make it those two minutes with no interruption.
LEMON: Well, it depends, maybe they'll get it. You need a directional, a multidirectional, a (Inaudible). We'll see, but you're right.
COLLINS: Yes.
LEMON: It's going to pick up something. John, what did you want to say?
AVLON: It's just perfect, because it's a perfect expression of the whole problem with this presidency. The Democrat -- the debate commission is saying that they've got to enforce Democratic norms that everyone took for granted before. Candidates wouldn't speak over each other. So now they've got to enforce it with new rules and the Trump campaign sort of saying that this is playing dirty pool because the president hold -- a tactic is to try to talk over other people.
This shouldn't need to have to be done. The fact that it does is a reflection of Donald Trump's disrespect for the Democratic process.
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: This is what you get.
LEMON: Well, it's a tactic, you're right, by the president and also for his spokespeople who come on television, right, his defenders, they just keep talking over --
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: -- the anchor or the interviewer and so, that's their M.O., that's the president's M.O.
AVLON: That's it.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
AVLON: Thank you.
LEMON: Both of you, much, much more on our breaking news. The Supreme Court rejecting a Republican attempt to require mail-in ballots be received by election day in Pennsylvania. That's state's attorney general joins me next.
[22:25:05]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, as I said at the top, there's a lot of breaking news tonight. The Supreme Court ruling that mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania will be counted as long as they are received within three days of election day even if they don't have a clear postmark.
This ruling is a big loss for Pennsylvania Republicans who wanted only ballots received by election day counted. Hotly contested state is critical for President Trump's re-election chances and could decide the election.
Let's discuss now with Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro is here. Mr. Attorney General, I appreciate you joining us. There's a little bit of a delay with your signal there, so I just want to warn the viewer about that and you as well.
So, let's start with, explain what this ruling means for voters in Pennsylvania and how it will impact the counting of votes there to determine the winter -- the winner.
[22:30:03]
JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, look, don, it's relatively simple when you break it down. You know, Pennsylvania voters deserve clarity and confidence in an election that's already underway here in Pennsylvania. And this ruling tonight by the Supreme Court of the United States gives them both. And it shuts down yet another attack by Donald Trump and his enablers on the laws of the commonwealth of Pennsylvanians.
What it means for voters is they continue to drop their ballot into a drop box and they can continue on have confidence in knowing that as long as they are ballot is postmarked by 8 p.m. on election day then it will be counted in this election.
This is a win for Pennsylvania voters. It's a win for democracy, people need to keep voting and what's clear is, it is yet another loss that's piled up for Donald Trump and his enablers who keep on attacking our laws here in Pennsylvania.
LEMON: So again, it has to be postmarked by election day. Correct?
SHAPIRO: That's correct.
LEMON: OK. All right. So, listen, Chief Justice John Roberts siding with the three liberal justices on this issue and that four-four tie means the state ruling which Republicans were appealing that it stands right now.
But in a matter of days Amy Coney Barrett likely is going to be confirmed to the court. How -- can that, how will that change the dynamic if there are any future court cases on voting rights in the state of any other?
SHAPIRO: Yes, look, Don, we obviously don't know what cases may or may not come up before the court and I don't necessarily want to try to forecast it. But here's what we do know.
We know that the chief justice cares deeply about the credibility of this court and we know that the chief justice wants to instill confidence in this election process. At the same time, we also know that this was a four-four decision.
And so, if there is to be a Justice Barrett, she will have a very pivotal voice in whatever cases may come before the court. And that should be an awakening to the people not just here in Pennsylvania but all across this country.
LEMON: Listen, Pennsylvania is obviously a key battleground state. But the state law prohibits counting any mail-in ballots before election day. How long do you think this process could take, given that Pennsylvania has not been a big mail-in voting state until this year?
SHAPIRO: Yes, this really is our first-time using mail-in voting here in Pennsylvania. I would point out, Don, that despite the president's repeated attacks on our laws, this law was passed with more Republican votes than Democratic votes. This shouldn't be a partisan issue trying to engage more people in our democracy. This is the right thing to do.
When this law came on the books, it made clear that you can't start counting the ballots until 7 a.m. on election day. Now it was problematic candidly during the primary, really an uncontested primary. But what we've seen since then is counties have stepped up. They have purchased machinery, they have gotten personnel in place and they are going to be able to process these ballots beginning at 7 a.m., relatively quickly.
And so, while we may not know the exact final numbers certainly for days, I think based on the precincts reporting and a good chunk of those mail-in ballots that are being counted, you are going to have a pretty good idea. You know, maybe in the early morning hours of the next day. And that, that would be something that I think is critically important because I fundamentally believe as Pennsylvania goes, so goes the nation when it comes to electing our next president.
LEMON: We will see. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. I appreciate your time.
SHAPIRO: Good to be with you, Don. Thank you.
LEMON: Coronavirus hospitalizations are up all across the U.S. This weekend saw the highest number of new cases since July. And an expert infectious disease doctor is warning the darkest days of the pandemic are ahead.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The nation passing another almost unimaginable milestone today in the growing COVID-19 pandemic. The virus has now killed more than 220,000 Americans, 27 states now reporting a rising number of new cases.
Let's bring in now Dr. Tom Inglesby, he is the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. Good to see you, doctor. Thank you so much for joining.
TOM INGLESBY, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY, JOHNS HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Thanks for having me, Don.
LEMON: It's Friday, Saturday, Sunday, saw nearly 175,000 new cases in the U.S., doctor. That's highest since July. Why are these cases surging now?
INGLESBY: Well, probably a number of reasons. We think certainly there have been regathering in terms of universities, people coming back to schools in some places, I think there's some where people might say a pandemic fatigue, in some places people not really following the advice of the public health guidance that's out there with masking or distancing or telecommuting.
There's more people going back to large gatherings, and family gatherings. There are a variety of reasons. But I think the important thing is that it's not a foregone conclusion that it will keep going in this direction and I think we could turn it around.
LEMON: Let's talk about Dr. Scott Atlas, shall we? He is on the task force. He's not an infectious disease expert. Twitter removed his tweet falsely, the one that falsely claiming -- claims that masks don't work. He has advocated for herd immunity. His views are at odds with every leading public health expert. Are his views and his role in this administration dangerous?
INGLESBY: I do think some of the things that he is saying are quite dangerous. I think the support of trying to encourage herd immunity. He doesn't use those words anymore but has in the past. And he certainly supports others who do use those words.
[22:39:58] That approach would lead to many more people getting infected and dying. And there's really no evidence that it works. There's evidence that the things that public health experts are recommending are working around the world. And we should stick with those, with those strategies. Those strategies have been proven to work in countries around the world and in the U.S.
And to change that and to support people going out and purposefully getting sick so that we can build immunity and a herd, there's just no evidence it's going to work, and we know a lot more people will get sick and die.
LEMON: So, listen, we're not even into, barely into the cold and flu season, right? This is the beginning. Hospitalizations are up all across the country, 14 states, peak hospitalizations last week. What does this indicate to you? And what does this mean as the weather continues to get colder, doctor?
INGLESBY: So, we do know that being outdoors is much safer than being indoors in terms of being near other people. And as things get colder, people obviously will be moving indoors and you know, moving their businesses or their other activities indoors. And that's going to pose a higher risk of transmission, and we've seen that coming and so we are going to have to do all sorts of other things to try and offset that risk.
We're going to have to wear masks. Have less people at work. Less density at work wherever possible, telecommunicating, avoiding large gatherings like rallies or events that aren't necessary, and being careful in people's homes during the holiday season, avoiding large gatherings of families because we've seen a lot of family transmission.
So, yes, the numbers are moving in the wrong direction. And we see that happening as the weather gets colder. And it's likely to get, it could get worse. And so, we have to do everything we can to try and reverse that trend.
LEMON: I want to look at couple of states. I like to get you to talk more about what you were just discussing -- we were just discussing. States like South Dakota, Wyoming, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wyoming, I should say, North Dakota and Minnesota they are all seeing their highest seven-day averages for new cases. Is it because some of these states were lax with their restrictions? And we all remember South Dakota's massive biker rally, remember in Sturgis, South Dakota, could that be part of this?
INGLESBY: It could definitely be part of this, and probably is. It's difficult to quantify, for example, the role of Sturgis in all of these states. We know that people from around the country, from every state went to the Sturgis rally and there been many people diagnosed with COVID after returning to their home states.
Figuring out exactly what proportion of that was driven by Sturgis, I don't think we'll be able to know because people may not report their illness. They may not get diagnosed. They may spread it without even knowing it. But it definitely had -- there were enough confirmed cases that we know has played a role.
And there's also some, there's miscommunication by leaders even now in the Dakotas, for example, we've heard governors in the Dakotas say that the numbers of new cases, the rise in new cases is just because we are testing more. And that's just factually wrong. There are more serious cases, more people in hospitals. More people in ICUs, there is a lot of serious COVID more than there was in the Dakotas.
And so it's important for leaders to start really being factual about what's going on so people can react accordingly.
LEMON: Doctor, thank you. Be well. I appreciate you coming on.
INGLESBY: Thanks so much, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
INGLESBY: I appreciate it.
LEMON: Cease-and-desist, that's what legendary musician John Fogerty telling the Trump campaign when it comes to using his music. He is here, and he's next.
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Take this. The play list at President Trump's super spreader rallies hitting all the wrong notes. Some song choices totally tone deaf to the raging pandemic that has left hundreds of thousands of Americans dead.
So, in the air tonight by Phil Collins "My Heart Will Go On," the theme from "Titanic," "Knockin' On Heaven's Door." Other songs including hits from the Village People giving the president a dance break from reality.
Victor Willis of the Village People better known as either the police officer or sometimes the navy officer spoke out this summer against the Trump administration's actions following the national reckoning over racial injustice.
And here is what he said. He says, I ask that you no longer use any of my music at your rallies especially "YMCA" and "Macho Man." Sorry, but I can no longer look the other way.
Now John Fogerty, the founder of the rock band Creedence Clearwater Revival directing Trump to stop using his song "Fortunate Son" by issuing a cease-and-desist order, an anthem for the anti-war movement at the height of the Vietnam War.
The song alludes to the rich and powerful being able to avoid the draft and taxes. Sound like anybody you know? Here it is being played last night at a Trump rally in Nevada.
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LEMON: Well, let's discuss now. John Fogerty, the founder of Creedence Clearwater Revival joins me now. He has an album coming out by the way on November 20th. "Fogerty's Factory." John, I am a huge fan. Thank you so much. I love classic rock 'n roll and I love Credence Clearwater Revival and you as well. So, I really appreciate you joining us.
JOHN FOGERTY, FOUNDER, CREEDENCE CLEARWATER REVIVAL: Thank you, Don. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: So, you wrote this song about a guy like President Trump and he is still using it at his rallies since your cease-and-desist order. Explain why this particular song doesn't belong on that play list.
FOGERTY: Well, way back in the '60s, you know, of course I was drafted at that time. That was one of the parts of the dynamics that's different than now. I dare say most 18-year-old males really kind of didn't want to go to Vietnam but we accepted our fate as it would be.
So, I was drafted. I went into the army reserve during say, '66, '67, '68. Eventually, you know, with the, my band mates, we became famous and I was writing songs and one of the subjects that really ticked me off was as I began to hear about senators' sons and rich people's sons avoiding the draft or getting cushy jobs they say in the military like, you know, entertainment director or something.
And it just, you know, rubbed me the wrong way. I ended up writing this song. You could say I wrote this song about Donald Trump, although I didn't know him at the time.
LEMON: John, here you are in uniform. This is last month. We learned that the president called American war dead losers and suckers. And remember what he said, this is what he said about John McCain.
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TRUMP: He's not a war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a war hero.
TRUMP: He is a war hero --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five and a half years at --
TRUMP: He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You know, John, he also seemed to suggest that Goldstar families may have given him coronavirus. When you hear that, and you see him using your song, what do you want to say to him? FOGERTY: Well, first of all, stop using my song. And have a little
more empathy for veterans, for the guys in the military, guys and gals. I think that's the part he is totally missing. You know, we -- especially the veterans from the Vietnam era went through a long, drawn out time of -- they weren't treated very well. I think our country finally came around and we started to really honor except for this president honor our people in the military.
And so, I'm sticking up for my song because it means a lot to veterans especially people from those times. And, also, he's using my voice. He's playing my voice at a rally, an event that I really don't agree with obviously, I don't agree with the president's policies.
LEMON: Listen, something that you wrote just resonates with a lot of people. You said the fact that Mr. Trump also fans the flames of hatred, racism, and fear while rewriting history is even more reason to be troubled by his use of my song.
Has there been any blowback from fans of yours who may support the president and don't like you speaking out against him?
FOGERTY: Yes, there has been actually. You know, Don, I mean, I think in normal times the way it's been for over 200 years we really do need to have two parties. It wouldn't be great if we were all Republicans or all Democrats. You need, you know, a tug of war going on. But it has become way over the top, right, during these times.
Yes, some of my fans are upset about it because they like my music but they happen to be Trump supporters and that's really OK with me. I mean, you know, I want everybody to get out and vote. You know, vote. That is what we really need in this election cycle. I've been through fans not liking my opinions before. And that's all right, too. In our beautiful country we are allowed to have our opinion and express it.
LEMON: So, listen. You issued the cease-and-desist. Are you going to take any other further legal action? Because he is still using it.
[22:55:01]
FOGERTY: Right. Well, you know, you can get into the, what do you call it, Groundhog Day of issuing a cease-and-desist every day or every half day actually. I'm not quite sure what to do about that. I know I can be very vocal about my position. There may be a lawsuit. You know, that's what we do in our country if things persist.
Certainly, I remain the guy that doesn't want the president using my voice in this way. Some of the things he says are really, really scary. And I don't endorse those things and I have a right to express my opinion.
LEMON: Well, John, I am excited that your new album is coming out in November. I urge everybody to buy it. It's called "Fogerty's Factory." Listen, people made love, "Fortunate Son," but my two favorites are "Have You Ever Seen the Rain." And of course, I'm from Louisiana so I like "Born in the Bayou." So, I appreciate that. I know probably the most popular is "Bad Moon Rising" but those are my two -- those are two favorites. But I love all of your music and I appreciate you. And best of luck to you. Thank you so much. The great John Fogerty.
FOGERTY: Thank you, sir.
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