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Don Lemon Tonight

Sixty Million Americans Already Voted; Joe Biden Slams President Trump; Thirty-seven States In U.S. Seeing Spike In Coronavirus Cases; Justice Amy Coney Barrett Now Confirmed To SCOTUS; Five V.P.'s Staff Tested Positive For Coronavirus; Republicans Aiming To Get Rid Of ACA; Biden Leads In Early Voting. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 26, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: It's been listed as the most important problem according to Gallup the last four or five months and in every single poll that I have seen, who, when voters are asked who is better to handle the pandemic, its former Vice President Joe Biden. It's just a very difficult obstacle for Trump to overcome in the final seven days.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Brother, I appreciate it. Be well. Thank you for your patience and thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Whoa, that was fast. How are you?

CUOMO: I'm very sensitive to timing.

LEMON: You know what I'm going to talk to you tonight, right?

CUOMO: Yes, I have a good guess.

LEMON: Why do you bother? I can't. Why do you even bother?

CUOMO: The nature of the show is confrontation of what is relevant.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: No, it's the nature of you. But I sat there like and I was like, I don't hear anything, I'm not getting anything. This guy is lying. He's like throwing out things.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He wasn't lying -- he wasn't lying necessarily.

LEMON: Yes, he was.

CUOMO: He was misleading with a lot of information.

LEMON: That's a lie. Misleading and lies are the same thing.

CUOMO: No, not always. LEMON: Yes, that was a -- OK, you say misleading, I say lying.

CUOMO: I know. But they're not always the same thing.

LEMON: I don't understand like, but from -- I say I'm sitting and watching you as I'm getting ready as a viewer, I'm not getting anything out of that. If there was someone you could bring on from the administration who would sit and have a conversation and present points and counterpoints, this is just accusations and name calling and making fun of people. It is desperation. Maybe Ok, maybe that's what you're trying to show the audience.

CUOMO: That's now you're starting to --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Maybe that's why you're trying to show an audience. But --

CUOMO: You have the worst numbers in this pandemic than we've had since the beginning.

LEMON: But how much more do you need to show?

CUOMO: This guy does -- this guy does -- obviously, a lot, Don. The country clearly is not aware --

LEMON: I'm looking.

CUOMO: -- of what we're dealing with. And as a result of that and the messaging from this White House, you bring on somebody whose one gift is polished messaging, that's what Murtaugh is. He was brought in for this purpose.

LEMON: That's not polished messaging.

CUOMO: He had nothing to offer the American people about what this president is going to do on the pandemic than what he did with China, Remdesivir, which I'm telling you, God forbid you ever need it, it is not cure. I'll tell you that right now.

LEMON: The biggest example of what this president is going to do with --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And a picture of my brother's big nose.

LEMON: Listen, that's a whole another thing, we've had a discussion about that. But that aside, the picture of what this president is going to do about the pandemic was evident. It was on display tonight, OK? So, hang on. The first person walks out, maskless. The first lady of the United States. Amy Coney Barrett walks out, maskless. Her husband, maskless.

The Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas maskless. The president maskless. What does that say? They're not trying to set or show an example for the rest of the country. You don't really need to do anything. You say look, tonight, there is a potential super spreader event at the White House, the president doesn't have a mask, the first lady doesn't have a mask. What kind of example does that set for the country?

And therefore, you can forego that argue you had with that person, I don't even know his name that did nothing for the viewer. That's just me. I was -- I was frustrated because I'm sitting there watching on some screens the video of the White House and then you and him having an argument. I'm like there's a picture of what he cares about. He doesn't care.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And go well beyond the White House.

LEMON: And when you said -- and when you said put up the picture of the -- put up the picture of the -- his rallies.

CUOMO: The White House is not a metaphor for the country.

LEMON: No masks, very few masks.

CUOMO: Right. That was from today.

LEMON: No social distancing.

CUOMO: That was from today.

LEMON: So, what does that -- what does -- does he care about the people, who, his own people support him?

CUOMO: But I think -- I think it's really important when the directions, the comms director for a campaign, the director of communications, has no offering of a plan of what the campaign is going to do about a crisis that is at its worst right now.

LEMON: Exactly.

CUOMO: And I also think that look, a lot of this is dispositional. I fight when people say things that aren't true --

LEMON: I know, you fight with me all the time.

CUOMO: -- or that are disruptive to people's believing me. Because look, as you and I know, a lot of people believe what time Tim Murtaugh was saying tonight.

LEMON: No, they don't. They don't believe him.

CUOMO: Don, a lot of people believe what Tim Murtaugh was saying.

LEMON: No, they don't want to believe. They believe -- here's what they like. They like the confrontation, they like, he got Chris Cuomo. I can't stand him. Do they believe it? No, they don't actually believe it. They know better. People are smarter than that. They actually know --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: They believe the president has done what he could do --

LEMON: No, they don't.

CUOMO: -- that the China move was huge --

LEMON: No, they don't.

CUOMO: -- that he saved a lot of lives --

LEMON: No, they don't.

CUOMO: And that he's way ahead on the vaccine than when the Democrats would have been.

LEMON: No, they don't. People know in their hearts, they know better. They know better.

CUOMO: So, they just tell pollsters differently than they believe in their hearts.

LEMON: Of course. Of course. They know better. How could you not know better? Comer on. Come on, adult people, logical people, they know better.

CUOMO: I'm telling you, the reason this president's numbers are as solid as they are is that people believe what they're told --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: People believe what they want, no, no, no.

CUOMO: -- by him. And people like Murtaugh.

[22:05:01]

LEMON: It's because they want it to be that way. There is no way in hell that people believe that. There is no way in hell that people actually believe it was a full China ban. They don't believe it. They are pretending they believe it, they maybe want to believe it but deep in their hearts they know it isn't true.

You know when things aren't true. You know when you want to believe. You know when you need to believe in things but you know deep in your heart that well, it's actually not true. I'm just going to allow it.

CUOMO: Don, Don, let me educate to you a fact, OK. You live in a country, as an example of a highly educated guy who has made it against significant odds.

LEMON: A little bit.

CUOMO: And that is impressive. You live in a country where many, many people believe that the earth is just a couple of thousand years old.

LEMON: And it's flat.

CUOMO: No, but that creationism is more viable an operative theory than evolution.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: That QAnon is a real thing.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: That there are conspiracies afoot and that there is all this -- there's a lot of stuff that people believe in this country. And I'm not condescending, I'm not looking down, I'm saying it's about information and it's about the testing of information.

And I honestly believe otherwise I wouldn't do it. I don't need the aggravation. I was ahead of the game tonight because I knew what he was going to do.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Because I know what he has and what he doesn't have.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: If the only picture that you can present this audience about what's going to happen is one of me and my brother, you've got trouble --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- because we have way bigger problems than how you feel about a TV segment.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And it tells you something about where we are one week out with the pandemic crushing us like it never has before and the only thing he prepared was a picture of me and Andrew.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I'm telling you; I think that it is instructive of the moment.

LEMON: Well thank you for proving my point. Because that shows he doesn't believe it; he just wants to believe it and he wants other people to believe it. But I don't -- I know people don't believe that. People need to delude themselves in these things but they don't believe it and that's -- that's my final answer. I got to go.

CUOMO: I accept it and I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: You as well. I'll see you soon.

Boy. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Here's where I want to start, OK? I want to start with we have an impeached president who lost -- roll that up, because that's not the breaking news. The breaking news -- go -- no, the other way -- that we have an impeached president who lost the popular vote and has appointed and gotten confirmed one third of the United States Supreme Court.

That's where we are tonight. An impeached president who has lost the popular vote and appointed and gotten confirmed one third of the United States Supreme Court. Maybe the only thing everyone agrees on in this country right now is that tonight is proof elections have consequences.

So, if you sat at home, if you're sitting at home now and you're upset about what's happening in this country, then you have no one to blame but yourself regardless of who you voted for. So, it is that time. If you want to do something, get out there and make your voice heard and vote.

So tonight, as I talk to you, we are just one, one week away from election eve. It's really election eve now just in a little bit. So, we have a week. Single digits and our politics and the pandemic are both peaking all at the same time. The politics, the American people already voting like they have never before voted. More than 60 million people have voted. I voted today. Stood in a long line. Actually, it took me about 30 minutes.

And that the poll watcher said she had never seen in all of her times as a poll watcher this many people voting so early and standing in line before an election. Many people waiting on long lines all day and they've been doing it now for weeks.

We are already almost halfway to the total number of votes cast in 2016. And this thing that can kill people, the pandemic, and has killed people, last week was the highest single week of cases since this pandemic began. It's almost the beginning, right?

And the president, he's just acting like, well, nothing is wrong, acting like he can just wish away more than a quarter of a million dead Americans. Joe Biden calling out the president's lies about the virus and he did it just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He suggested the doctors were inflating the numbers, catch this, because doctors get more money. What in the hell is the matter with this man? Thousands of doctors and nurses have given their lives trying to save lives and he's saying the reason they're talking about testing is that they want to make more money.

[22:09:56]

Mr. President, more than 1,000 healthcare workers have lost their lives fighting COVID, doctors, nurses. They're not profiting. They're dying. During the debate Trump said that we're learning to live with this COVID. No, he's asking us to learn to die with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, here's the picture that you really need to see better than anything that I can say or my colleagues can say or any spokesperson or representative, this is illustrative of what's happening now. Look at all this.

The president who was so sick with the virus and ended up at Walter Reed holding three rallies in Pennsylvania today, Pennsylvania State, by the way, he won by just 44,292 votes in 2016. Packed crowds, few masks.

And then there is this swearing in ceremony for Amy Coney Barrett in the Rose Garden tonight, this time masks and social distancing required, I guess, for most people, not these folks. By some, anyway. But let's not forget less than a month ago, her nomination event

turned into a super spreader event that left multiple people in Trump's inner circle infected.

The president desperate, desperate, all the evidence, lying that we're rounding the turn, trying to distract you from his own failure to do anything substantive to save American lives. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And we're rounding the turn. You know, all they want to talk about is COVID. By the way, on November 4th, you won't be hearing so much about it.

(CROWD CHEERING)

TRUMP: COVID, COVID, COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, you know, we are not rounding the turn, not by any measure, no matter how much he lies to you. Cases are trending up. Thirty-seven states are trending up. The president is trying to take advantage of the very real COVID fatigue that all Americans are facing right now. But with the election day just eight days away and the president's path to 270 narrowing, it may be Trump fatigue that decides this election.

And then there's the Vice President, Mike Pence, right? Mike Pence, by the way, you may have forgotten is the head of the coronavirus task force. The head of the coronavirus task force who is the vice president of the United States, Mike Pence, the head of the coronavirus task force, I keep saying that because he is ignoring his task force's own guidelines and refusing to quarantine.

Do as I say, not as I do. Campaigning in Minnesota, even though at least five of his aides have tested positive for the coronavirus. Five of them, count them. Ignoring his own task force's recommendations. He's not quarantining. But you should but he doesn't want to. The task force is not only refusing, he's not only refusing to

quarantine, he's traveling all around. And to add insult to injury, the administration is claiming that the vice president is an essential worker, which is an insult to all the people who put their lives on the line to serve as real essential workers. Often for low wages.

The danger of the vice president's behavior is very, very real. The Minnesota Department of Health reports three COVID-19 outbreaks with at least 23 cases related to Trump, the Trump campaign, his events held in the state last month. But the Trump administration, the super spreader tour just keeps rolling along with eight days to go until election day.

If that super spreader event moniker wasn't real, it's certainly real now. I want you to cast your mind back though, to the last election to the campaign in 2015. I want you to listen to Kayleigh McEnany, now the White House press secretary by the way, had to say then about a matchup between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think the Republicans run into a problem if it is Joe Biden and if it is, maybe a Trump on the other side because Joe Biden, one of the things he is remarkable at is really kind of being a man of the people and resonating with middle class voters, feeling like, coming off as human. You know, his gaffes are as much as we make fun of them, to a certain extent they make him look human, so in that sense he's likable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Interesting, huh? Human, likable, man of the people. She made similar statements at the time and when CNN's KFile asked about them, Kayleigh went on to attack, accusing Biden of corruption, and claiming he has become an empty vessel for the liberal elite and far left. Well, she's got to say something, right?

[22:14:54]

She's got to -- she just can't let that stand because then it would show her for being ambition oriented, let's put it that way, or putting ambition above all and being able to say whatever she wants to maybe that's a sign of a good spokesperson. Here's the person I support. Forget the bad. I'll say all the good about them. So, she has to say something, doesn't she?

And then there is the senior White House adviser the presidential son- in-law Jared Kushner coming out with an admission that is not going to help this president with black voters, not at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And again, one thing we've seen in a lot of the black community, which is mostly Democrat, is that President Trump's policies are the policies that can help people break out the problems that they're complaining about but he can't want them to be successful more than they want to be successful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That's elitist. First of all, you know, grammar, he went to good schools, he said Democratic, like people are mostly Democratic, not Democrat. Or you can say Democrats, you have to put an s on it but, you know, you used it as pejorative if people get that.

But how elitist is that? Didn't even recognize it. That's what this administration really thinks about black voters, it's transactional black folks and white folks. Never mind the president's constant claims that he's done more for African-Americans than about anybody, except maybe Lincoln. And he's the least racist person.

You heard Jared Kushner there. He thinks black people don't want to be successful. He calls the fight against systemic racism -- he, so I guess maybe they're admitting there's systemic racism that Jared you'd better, because, remember, according to this administration, there is no systemic racism. But saying that black folks are complaining. Complaining, huh?

These people right here, these black folks there in Pennsylvania certainly don't look like they're complaining, do they? Because black voters have been lining up all across this country, fired up and flocking to the polls. Complaining? Not these folks either. They're not complaining. That looks like a southern university pep rally that I used to go to when I was a kid. Battle of the bands. That's not complaining. I'm just saying.

Eight days to go until election day, until the biggest election of our lifetimes, not just saying that. This time it's true. And you cannot miss it. Even if your dance moves aren't that good, you can make your voice heard. You can vote.

So, we have our breaking news tonight. We have the new Supreme Court justice sworn in at the ceremony on the South Lawn of the White House tonight, minutes ago, a potential super spreader again tonight, we'll see. Election day just eight days away, looming, looming large and the pandemic racing -- raging, excuse me, all across this country and multiple cases, now among the vice president's staff. Seems almost too much to be real, doesn't it? But it is. This is where we are right now.

And Kaitlin Collins is here and so is Dr. Jonathan Reiner right after this.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, here's our breaking news tonight, Amy Coney Barrett sworn in minutes ago as the justice of the United States Supreme Court sworn in just eight days ahead of election day. The Republican controlled Senate confirming her nomination by a vote of 52 to 48. Barrett then sworn in by Justice Thomas at a ceremony on the South Lawn of the White House. Hundreds in attendance. Keep in mind the White House is a COVID-19 hot spot, at least five

aides to Vice President Mike Pence testing positive.

And joining me now is CNN White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Good evening to both of you.

Kaitlan, I'm going to start with you. Despite COVID cases surging, the White House hosted a swearing in event for Amy Comey Barrett. What did we see tonight?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And a lot of people questioned how wise that was, Don. Because of course it came exactly a month after that initial event where the president announced he was going to pick Amy Coney Barrett to be on the supreme court. Of course, that was an event that was later tied to so many of those coronavirus cases.

But tonight, it looked a lot different than it did a month ago. It was not in the Rose Garden. They moved it over to the south lawn where of course there is more space. And that we did see over 200 chairs there, they were distanced from one another and most of the guests did have a mask on.

So, that's something you have not seen from any of these events that they have held here at the White House where it was that Rose Garden ceremony for Amy Coney Barrett at the Republican convention. That's not something you typically see. But it was still hundreds of people here on the south lawn.

You saw them congregating as they were getting into their seats and then immediately after the president and Amy Coney Barrett and Justice Clarence Thomas went inside. So, it did look different but of course, you know, the question is who was in attendance.

You saw some of the Republican lawmakers who voted for her. But, Don, one person we did not see tonight was the Vice President, Mike Pence, who has continued on with his campaign despite those staffers testing positive but clearly did not feel like he should come here tonight.

LEMON: But he went to an event on the campaign trail with hundreds of people.

Dr. Reiner, the Rose Garden announcement was a super spreader event, even if they required masks and actually socially distancing this time. Should they be holding an event like this when the White House is still a hot spot?

I mean, we know multiple people in Pence's orbit have tested positive. We saw Clarence Thomas on stage not wearing a mask to my knowledge. I'm not sure if he has had coronavirus or not. Amy Coney Barrett's husband on stage, no mask as well, the president and the first lady. So, should they, should they be holding this type of event? What do you think?

[22:24:57] JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I thought it was insane. The fact that they didn't learn their lesson from the first super spreader event. So, think about this. When they held the announcement of now Justice Barrett's appointment, no one really knew that there was an outbreak at the White House, which almost certainly was already in effect.

Now we know there's another outbreak at the White House and they still schedule an event. Why would you bring so many people and put them at risk? And then the other really insulting thing, if I was the staunch supporter of the president and I went to some of his rallies, I would want to know why you pack me shoulder to shoulder in an unmasked crowd but then you brought all these VIPs to the White House and separated them and had them mask up. Why do you protect them and not us?

I think it was offensive, completely unnecessary. And you know, my hospital is six blocks away from this hot zone. And it's the doctors and nurses and the staff members of places like G.W. and other hospitals around the country that bear the brunt of these super spreader events.

You know, when someone gets infected, it's not just the patient. They put scores of people at risk to care for them and we do it with, you know, we've made this our lives work. But there's a lot at stake.

LEMON: Yes. President Trump, Kaitlan, as we know, wanted to get a Supreme Court pick before the election. Got it done. Does he now have the conservative court that he always wanted ready to go for any election cases that may crop you in the next couple weeks?

COLLINS: Well, Don, something we've heard as push back is you don't know how Amy Coney Barrett would judge if that how she would rule if that did come before her, some kind of election case, but we know what the president's intention was because he's made it clear why he wanted to get her on the court and confirmed so quickly.

And this really has been such an expedited timeline. It was just one month ago today that they were announcing her. Now they've gotten her confirmed and it wasn't very long after she was confirmed by the Senate that they held this event at night at 9 o'clock p.m. here at the White House.

But one thing that we've noticed, Don, as we've been going from rally to rally, when the president picked Amy Coney Barrett to be his pick many people were saying this is the ticket that people are picking now. They're deciding on President Trump and all of these picks that he's made to the Supreme Court.

But, Don, he really doesn't bring her up that much on the campaign trail anymore. He did at the beginning when they chanted fill that seat but lately it takes almost an hour for the president to get into a speech before he even mentions of course this monumental thing in the eyes of Republicans.

And so, it is interesting how you hear his allies tout it so much. You don't always hear the president bring it up right away like he does of course, Hunter Biden and his other priorities.

LEMON: All right. Kaitlan, doctor, thank you so much.

Eight days to go until election day and the newest Supreme Court was just sworn in about an hour ago. What Senator Kamala Harris is saying about all this. That's next. That's next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: One week to go, one week to go until election day and President Trump clearly hoping his image, this image of him presiding over a grand swearing in ceremony for Amy Comey Barrett, the newest member of the Supreme Court will distract Americans from this image, the map showing the coronavirus surging out of control across this country.

Thirty-seven states now seeing an increase in the number of new cases, 37 states. More than 225,000 Americans dead. Yes, 225,000.

Let's bring in now CNN's Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, Senior Political Analyst, Ron Brownstein.

Good evening to both of you. Nia --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Don.

LEMON: -- this is how Senator Kamala Harris is reacting to this confrontation -- confirmation, excuse me. She said, today Republicans denied the will of the American people by confirming a Supreme Court justice through an illegitimate process all in their effort to gut the Affordable Care Act and strip healthcare from millions with preexisting conditions. We won't forget this. We won't forget this? What are they going to do, Nia, what does that mean?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: They can't do anything about this. What they are going to try to do is use this as a rallying cry to get folks to the polls not only now because we know people are voting. But obviously in November and on election day you saw them do that during the confirmation hearings that they obviously couldn't stop but they could certainly make it a political issue and rally their base.

And so we'll see if that ultimately works. I mean, is this new six- three majority that the conservatives have is a real threat obviously to the ACA, as Kamala Harris said in that statement as well as voting rights and cases that Amy Coney Barrett will see soon, you know, dealing with Pennsylvania, for instance, and some of the ballot issues there.

So, this is a real threat I think to a lot of progressive causes. And, listen, with this six-three majority, even if Biden gets in, you know, you think about the way in which that Trump has been able to reshape the federal judiciary more broadly, many of the initiatives that Biden might try to implement during his presidency could face a real upheaval because of the nature of the courts going forward. LEMON: Ron, you know, tomorrow seven days out, this is CNN's electoral

map. Biden is up. But can President Trump, by the way, he had three Pennsylvania rallies today. Can he still make a comeback?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I mean, President Trump won last time because he turned out more non-college and non-urban whites than voter -- than pollsters and for that matter the Clinton campaign expected. And that is always a possibility. I mean, there are Democrats who are eyebrows raised at least about the high level of participation among those same groups in some of the rust belt states. But this is not exactly 2016.

[22:34:58]

Pollsters have changed their methodology, Biden has a bigger lead, Trump is facing a bigger deficit among college educated white voters, and young voters the numbers are moving up in some of the polling.

And most important, Don, everybody is voting this time. One of the reasons why the turnouts were so valuable for Trump last time was because on the other side turnout was depressed. That doesn't seem like it's going to be the case in 2020. I mean, the early voting is incredible and it is possible that even if Trump turns out more voters, it will kind of be diluted by the larger turnout in places like Dane County in Madison and Austin and so forth.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Ron, let me ask you this. So, here's what people say to me. Yes, you know, well, I know, I hear what you guys say, Don, about the polls.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Right.

LEMON: I know what you said about the polls last time so I'm leery. But when I see all those people at the Trump rallies, I mean, that's a lot of people voting. What do you say to that?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look, I think the Trump rallies are like more symptom than cause. I mean, they are a reflection that he has a lot of energy in his base, even after 225,000 people are dead and everything that has happened. And that means Democrats do have to show up in these states because the Trump voters are going to show up.

But, you know, the medium is the message also in these rallies, Don. And you know, more than anything he says from the stage, the message he is broadcasting to the country is that, essentially, he has given up on trying to protect you from the virus. I mean, the fact that he's holding these large events without masks, without social distancing, I mean, he is saying as clearly as he can than no matter how many get sick or die, he is not going to do anything different.

LEMON: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: And that is a tough message to end with when 60 percent of the country disapproves the way he's been handling this.

LEMON: Yes, but I understand when people say, you know, I'm seeing a bunch of people at these rallies, that's a lot of people.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

LEMON: But I also I have to remind them that it all really what matters is really, Nia, the Electoral College. And even with a lot of people, still the popular vote, most of the people in this country were not at those rallies, they did not vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, she didn't win the Electorate College, but she won the popular vote. So, crowd size doesn't necessarily translate into who's going to show up at the polls.

HENDERSON: Yes, I think that's right. And we learned that in the primary. Right? Remember those giant crowds that Bernie Sanders had, it didn't do him much good beating Hillary Clinton in 20 -- in 2016 or Joe Biden this go around. There's certainly a sign of enthusiasm but it's enthusiasm with those same people.

Donald Trump's problem has been that he hasn't been able to expand beyond those people into different groups. He's obviously trying or at least saying that he's trying to with African-Americans doing a bit better with Latino voters as well, particularly Latino men.

But mainly it is a base strategy to try to turn out, you know, in record numbers those non-college whites, as Ron Brownstein was talking about. If you're a Democrat, you're cautiously optimistic and terrified, I think, at this point because of what happened in 2016 but Biden does have some fundamental strengths, particularly among white voters, really of all classes at this point and then I think one of the other things to look at is how many black people actually show up. What is their participation rate? Is it closer to 2012, it was almost like 67 percent --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes.

HENDERSON: -- or is it closer to 2016 when it was about 60 percent. So that's --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I didn't see people dancing at the polls in 2016, Nia.

BROWNSTEIN: No.

HENDERSON: Right.

LEMON: I didn't see people doing the electorate twice --

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: He did in 2012 and 2008.

LEMON: -- at the polls in 2016.

HENDERSON: Right. Yes.

LEMON: But this before I go, I just want to show, i want to put this up. This is where Biden and Harris are going to traveling this week.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

LEMON: Because it will be in Iowa, Wisconsin and Texas. And Joe Biden did a -- everyone said he was off the campaign trail today --

BROWNSTEIN: Georgia.

LEMON: -- but he was -- in Georgia as well, but he as in Pennsylvania today as well. So, they're out there. They're trying to shore up, they're trying to keep the spots at the --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Well not only shore up but expand.

LEMON: And expand, right.

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

HENDERSON: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you both. I'll see you soon.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

LEMON: All right.

HENDERSON: All right.

BROWNSTEIN: OK.

HENDERSON: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: President Trump and Joe Biden hitting the trail in the same state today. The election could all come down to the battleground state of Pennsylvania. And former Pennsylvania governor, he was actually governor when I lived there, Ed Rendell, he is going to weigh in next.

[22:40:00]

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LEMON: So, the president and the former vice president both in the key state of Pennsylvania today. In 2016 Trump's margin of victory there over Hillary Clinton came down to just over 44,000 votes, less than 1 percentage point in the keystone state. The president says that he thinks he could win by more his time.

So, let's look at the early voting data. OK? Democrats hold a significant advantage in Pennsylvania so far, making up to about 70 percent of almost 1.5 million ballots cast. By race the majority of Pennsylvania's early voting electorate is white. Black voters make up the second largest share of pre-election day voters at 11 percent followed by Asian and Hispanic voters. About 57 percent of Pennsylvania voters so far have been women. All of

those numbers come from Catalyst, a company that provides data analytics and other services to Democrats, academics and nonprofit issues advocacy organizations, it's giving insight into who is voting early. So, with eight days to go a lot can change. What does this early data tell us?

Let's discuss with Democratic Governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell is here. Governor, thank you. That was a lot of information to give the viewer so I hope you will help us get through this. I really appreciate you joining us.

You know, Democrats currently lead in Pennsylvania pre-election votes. But we know Republicans are more likely to physically go to the polls on election day. When you look at all those numbers do you think President Trump can make up that ground?

FMR. GOV. ED RENDELL (D-PA): He could. He could. I mean, there's no way of exactly breaking down who those early voters voted for. History (technical difficulty). We know that Donald Trump got first a lot of (technical difficulty) But I think the most encouraging sign for Democrats among voters who describe themselves as first-time voters, switching under (Inaudible) were Democrats, and that's a very great sign.

[22:45:08]

I think we're (Inaudible) voters who didn't voted in 2016.

LEMON: And Governor, if you could, as close as can you get to the computer for the microphone, I'd appreciate it. Because it's cutting out just a little bit so I'd appreciate at that.

So, could it come down to the courts, governor? I mean, there are ongoing legal battles between Democrats and Republicans over state Supreme Court decisions and now Republicans are appealing to the Supreme Court. Do you think the new court with the new justice the president wanted will -- do you think they would call this fairly?

RENDELL: Yes, I don't believe that this case is going to go through the courts. I think the Pennsylvania Supreme Court will be the (AUDIO GAP). And remember, Donald Trump has to have something out of a case in court that he have (technical difficulty).

So, for example, the big stink about the eight votes over (technical difficulty) that was for Donald Trump, that was in Lucerne County which was controlled by Republicans. So, you know, he has to have evidence that there was voter fraud and I don't think there has been and I don't think there will be. I think the election will be (technical difficulty).

LEMON: Yes. So, let's talk about, again, who's going out to vote. Because Trump was able, you know, to -- he was able to flip white voters in 2016, white working-class voters who voted for Obama. And you just said, well, we don't know who's going out there to vote, right? So, do you think Biden has flipped those voters back? And who are they and what motivates them do you think?

RENDELL: Well, Biden hasn't flipped all of them back by no means, but the reason I think Biden will carry the state is, one, in all the rural counties where Trump really beat Hillary Clinton by far let's say 70/30 in Clinton county, Joe Biden is going to lose but he is going to lose at 60/40/30.

So, the big (technical difficulty) in each of these rural counties where Hillary Clinton got caught he'll lose but he won't lose by (Inaudible) then in the suburbs he's going to do much better than Hillary did because Hillary was (Inaudible) relations. For example, I saw Republican poll in Bucks County the congressional race where President Trump lost about two points to Hillary Clinton. This time, Joe Biden (technical difficulty). Joe Biden is going to do much better than Hillary in the same (Inaudible) and he's going to pull down a margin of Republicans.

LEMON: Yes.

RENDELL: But he should be able to win, but who knows?

LEMON: Yes. Governor Rendell, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Please come back and see us.

And viewers, we apologize for the bad connection. Next time we have him on, we'll make sure that it's perfect. But we appreciate him joining us anyway.

So, I want to make sure you know about my new podcast, it's called Silence is Not an Option. We talking about all these issues especially when it comes to voting, when it comes to voting for minorities voting in this country and the days leading up to the election. We are talking about the power of your vote. So, you can find it on Apple podcast or on your favorite podcast app.

As I've been saying there's only eight days until election day. So, who's got the edge? You know who would know? John King. And John King is at the magic wall to break it down, next.

[22:50:00]

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LEMON: Eight days to go, count them, eight to go until election day both President Trump and Joe Biden will campaign this week in key battleground states.

John King is at the magic wall with the very latest look at the road to 270. John?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, let's start with the 2016 map. And the president's three stops today, three stops in one state, Pennsylvania. Why is he doing that? Well, the state was critical to him four years ago. And guess what? He is losing and losing big time right now. How do we know that? Early voting results. Look at this data. Seventy percent of the ballots returned already in

Pennsylvania were cast by Democrats. It doesn't mean they all voted for Joe Biden but we know most of them did. Seventy percent of those ballots returned by Democrats. Only 20 percent returned by Republicans. The president is losing big time in the early voting in a state with 20 electoral votes.

Here's a new way to look at it. A new poll today at the election's research center at the University of Wisconsin at Madison. It shows, number one, Joe Biden winning Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, all those blue wall states the president flipped four years ago.

But look at this. Among those who have already voted Joe Biden is up 78 points in Pennsylvania. Donald Trump is ahead in the polls among those who have yet to vote by only by 21 points, Don. You can do that math. Joe Biden is up by 78 points now. That's not enough. Donald Trump is in Pennsylvania looking to bring people out of the woodwork. The trump campaign says its registered new people. We'll see if that math works but it looks tough.

Let's come back to the national perspective now and quick. A little then and now national 2020 versus 2016 eight days out. Joe Biden has a 10-point lead now. Hillary Clinton had a five-point lead then. Double the lead. More significantly, Joe Biden above 50.

Watch if the national polls shrink. If they get into single digits, then we scrub the state. But right now, Biden looks comfortable. One more. Let's just look at this real quick. Bring up the battleground state of play. Ten states on the board here all carried by President Trump in 2016. A lot of blue, right? Joe Biden leads in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin as i just said, plus he has narrow leads in Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Iowa.

Now, some Republicans say we can get these states, maybe then can. Texas and Ohio, the president is leading by a little margin. But what does this tell you? Joe Biden is competitive everywhere.

[22:54:58]

It is a very different, very different 2020 map as opposed to 2016, which is why in the final days, Joe Biden has a lopsided lead. He is going to Texas. He is going to Iowa. He is going to Georgia. He thinks he can stretch this map. Democrats are confident.

The president, Don, at a minimum, needs to do this. Win all the tossups on our board. Even if he did that, it wouldn't be enough. That would be 290 to 248 which brings you back to where I began. It's 20 in Pennsylvania. The president needs those 20. Even if he got them under this scenario it wouldn't be enough but it would be a giant start. The president needs this 20 very much. Will it lean blue right now, that's why the president was there today. And likely will be back. Don?

LEMON: Right on. John King, thank you so much.

The White House hosting a big event to swear in Amy Coney Barrett tonight even though they currently have another, another coronavirus outbreak going on. Stay with us.

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