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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump and Biden Make Final Push on Battleground States Seventy- Three Hours Until Election Day as U.S. COVID-19 Cases Hit Record High; The Road to 270 for President Trump and Joe Biden; Questions Hang Over Both Biden and Trump Campaigns During Final Days of Race; Lindsey Graham Versus Jaime Harrison Face Off in Final Debate; Minnesota Won't Challenge Ruling on Ballot Deadline; Senior Women in New Hampshire are Sending Message to Trump. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 30, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Can you believe it? It is 73 hours until Election Day and the clock is ticking. More than 86 million ballots have already been cast in early voting, a record number. But President Trump and Joe Biden are leaving nothing to chance on this final weekend of campaigning.
Trump is planning to hold four rallies tomorrow in Pennsylvania, one of the most important battleground states. He won it in 2016, but polls show Biden is leading there. And Biden is campaigning in Michigan tomorrow with former President Barack Obama. They're holding two events in that key state.
Let's discuss now with CNN's White House correspondent John Harwood. Also with us is Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is the director of the Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington University Hospital. Gentlemen, good evening. Good to see both of you. The 73 hours before Election Day. John --
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE)
LEMON: Yes, right. So, both Trump -- President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden are all over the Midwest today. A big turnout on Tuesday is critical to his path to 270. I am talking about President Trump.
HARWOOD: Well, look, the upper Midwest is likely where we decide whether Joe Biden wins the presidency. Donald Trump has got a lot of turf to defend. There are a lot of battleground states where he is facing a tough challenge from Joe Biden, Arizona, Iowa, North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, all states that Trump won in 2016.
But the -- if Biden can take away the three big ones in the Midwest, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, he will be president because there are no states where the president is seriously challenging for states that Hillary Clinton won. Minnesota is one where he has an outside shot, but he has got a significant deficit in Minnesota. So, really, the ground zero is going to be Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. And Pennsylvania, of the three, is likely the decisive one because that is the closest of them.
LEMON: Doctor, sadly, this was the worst week for coronavirus cases in the U.S. since the pandemic began. More than 91,000 cases were reported just today. The president is still holding 17 rallies in four days with few masks, no social distancing. I mean, quite -- honestly, this is terrifying.
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It is terrifying. And we haven't seen the worst of it. In a day or two, we will top triple -- six digits for cases in one day. We will see over 100,000 cases in one day. Now, that by itself sounds bad, but two weeks after that, you know, we will start seeing 2,000 people a day dying in this country.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
REINER: And hospitals are increasing the patients -- the number of patients hospitalized is increasing rapidly. So today, there are about 47,000 patients hospitalized with COVID. Almost every day now, we are seeing an increase of about a thousand patients and hospitals in the Midwest are starting to fill.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
REINER: And then you will see elective cases cease and hospitals need to go to critical procedures, including, you know, hopefully not triaging patients.
LEMON: Unless something changes, doctor, in this country, unless a change is fast, how bad could this pandemic get?
REINER: Losing 2,000 to 2,500 patients a day.
LEMON: Wow.
REINER: To do that math, you know, in a month, you know, losing 75,000 patients in a month. We can -- we have the power to put this down. We need to mask up. And in some places, we need to think about smart closures. We are already seeing that in Texas.
You know, the governor of New Jersey is not threatening it, but he is -- you know, he has put it back on the table to think about doing, again, strategic closures.
[23:05:03]
REINER: We are seeing it in Europe. Europe is closing all over. It's the smart thing to do when the virus gets out of control. That is how we got control with the first wave.
So, here's the choice for the country. If you don't want to close, then mask up. But we can't have it both ways. We can't be no mask and no closing. LEMON: Mm-hmm.
REINER: So, if closing is offensive, let's mask up.
LEMON: Yes. John, President Barack Obama sat down with LeBron James and Maverick Carter today for an interview on HBO's "The Shop: Interrupted." This is a clip where he compares the late stages of the campaign to the NBA finals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The good news is I think a lot of young people right now have been activated in ways they haven't before. You guys have contributed to that. I am proud of you for it. We just got to keep that going.
LeBron knows something about this in the finals, right? You don't have to be nervous if you've got a big lead going in to the last minute.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: And so the key here is for us to maintain a lead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Mm-hmm.
OBAMA: But if we are slack, if we let, you know, our guards down, if we kind of relax, you know, somebody might call time-out, where you didn't have one --
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Besides being one of the nicest barber shops I've ever seen that the former president was sitting, I don't know if it is a backdrop or what, but it is nice, is that a good comparison, you think, John?
HARWOOD: Sure, although a little dicey for the president to refer to that time-out. He is talking about Chris Weber, University of Michigan, in that final against North Carolina where Chris Weber had a little brain freeze and called a time-out, got a technical foul.
But look, that's why President Trump -- excuse me, President Obama and Joe Biden are going to Michigan this weekend, Flint and Detroit, because one of the key factors in Hillary Clinton's defeat in 2016 was you had inadequate turnout among African-Americans, especially in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, so around Philadelphia, around Milwaukee, around Detroit.
The president is going to -- President Obama is doing to Detroit. Stevie Wonder is going to appearing there. He is going to Flint, another heavily African-American city. Trying to get that turnout and prevent any drop off from turnout is critical to Joe Biden's ability to hold that lead that President Obama was talking about.
LEMON: John, doctor, thank you so much. Appreciate it. See you soon.
So, I want to get to the candidates' path to 270 electoral votes. John King is at the magic wall for us. John, explain how the coronavirus is impacting this race.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, four days out and just another sad collision between the coronavirus and campaign 2020, another record setting day for new infections in the United States four days to Election Day. It is a reminder President Trump is running, yes, against Joe Biden, but also against himself, against his record on handling this pandemic.
When you look across the country, again, we talk about this all the time, we think of red and blue. This is a map that shows the pain of COVID across America. We'll fill it in, red and blue, starting next Tuesday night. This is cases per 100,000 residents. Just think about this in the context of where we saw the candidates today, right?
The president was in Michigan, a lot of pain there. In Wisconsin, even more pain, including a spike right now that is just blowing previous records away. Look at all this red. That is the highest case count. The red case is right up there. Minnesota as well, right?
There was campaigning by the vice president, former Vice President Joe Biden in Iowa, Senator Harris in Texas, the vice president in Arizona. Every state in America has felt the pain. But some of these states have felt it in an incredibly severe way, which just complicates the president's challenge without a doubt as we head into the final days.
He wants to say the pandemic is gone, things are better, and we have turned the final corner. The map just tells you the truth, Don, and it is not what the president said.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, as well, when you just think of the toll. The top 10 states right now, top 10 states, new cases per capita, you see some small states by population here, this is new cases per capita, and these are the top 10 states in the country right now reporting COVID cases. Guess what, in 2016, all 10 of them voted for Trump.
It doesn't mean these states are going to flip on the president, but as he is asking his voters to turn out, he is also saying, the coronavirus, we are good, we turned the corner. These people know that. They know it is wrong. They live it every day of their live. Battleground Wisconsin, battleground Iowa on that list, as well, is complicating the president's challenge.
Here is another way to look at this, as well. As we switch the map here and come back, newly confirmed, newly confirmed cases yesterday. Today sets a record. This is yesterday. These were the top 10 states yesterday with the most cases, right? And again, if you want to bring politics into this, seven of those 10 voted for the president and several, a big battlegrounds in the final days, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, Minnesota perhaps. [23:10:06]
KING: These are states going through the pain. Yes, they voted blue last time, pain right now, new confirmed cases as the president tries to make the case give him four more years. His leadership on the pandemic is the defining issue. Just one more, the positivity rate, these are the top 10 states when it comes to problems, if you will, more positive test today means more cases tomorrow.
And again, if you go back and look at it through the perspective of 2016, all but one, Nevada, voted for the president four years ago. So look across here. Again, most of the states, they are reliably red. Watch on election night. See if the president's margins are smaller, because even in solid republican states, his numbers on the coronavirus are simply not good and it is impacting the tone and tenor of this campaign.
One other way to look at it, let us just use the 2016 presidential map as we do, yes, the president can come back, yes, he needs overwhelming turnout, yes, he needs to get all the toss up states, places like Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa, he has to win all those, but then he still has to some business up in some of the big states and he is targeting these Midwest battlegrounds.
Look, he can talk about the economy all he wants. He can talk about law and order, all he wants, 42 percent approve, 55 disapprove in the state of Michigan when it comes to the president's handling of the coronavirus. He is the incumbent present. It's the number one issue in the country. The voters don't like what they have. That makes them inclined to look for change.
Move over again to battleground Wisconsin. This poll graphic is even more telling because it shows the direction. A month ago, 44 percent of Wisconsin approved to the president's handling of the coronavirus. Now, it's down to 39 percent. A month ago, 54 percent disapprove. Now, it is up to 59 percent, 59 percent in a battleground state disapproving of the president's handling of the virus.
Yes, Don, it's possible for a comeback in the last four days. Possible if he has an enormous turnout on Election Day. But the coronavirus is a severe headwind and in the places the president needs, that wind is getting even stronger right now, sadly.
LEMON: Mr. John King, thank you very much, sir.
Despite all the polling and the predictions, some big questions still hang over both Joe Biden and Donald Trump at this late stage in the race.
Let's break it down now with CNN's --
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Hey, Don.
LEMON: -- forecaster Harry Enten. Hey, Harry. How is it going, brother?
ENTEN: I'm with you. It can't be too bad.
LEMON: All right. I like to hear that. So, a lot of people talking about had tonight, maybe it's overblown, maybe it's not. Is Biden underperforming with minority voters, and if so, is that a warning sign?
ENTEN: He absolutely is, specifically among Hispanic voters, right? We have seen this throughout the entire campaign. We've seen it in Florida, specifically with Cuban voters. And sure, in a vacuum, it is a concerning sign in a state like --
LEMON: But don't Cubans usually vote conservative --
ENTEN: Not as much as they did for Donald Trump. Last time around, Hillary Clinton did specifically well with Cuban-Americans. We saw them coming back to the GOP fold in 2018. We are continuing to see that now in the polling of 2020.
Here's the thing I point out. Joe Biden is overperforming among white voters and they make up the vast majority of voters. That is why you're seeing the spike Joe Biden performing worse with Hispanics. He is doing so much better with white voters. It more than covers the spread.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. OK. And African-American voters, is there any evidence of that or is that just people writing copy?
ENTEN: Tiny. Tiny. It's very, very tiny. Nothing compared with Hispanics.
LEMON: Got it. OK. So, now, Trump. Is there a shy Trump voter affect, meaning voters who don't want to tell pollsters that they are voting for or voted for Trump but are going to come out and surprise again?
ENTEN: I don't think they are particularly is. And, you know, one of the things that is so important to point out about 2016 is that there were a lot of undecided voters, right? And then in the last month of the campaign, they decided to go with Donald Trump. There are much fewer undecided voters at this particular point.
And the other thing that I will note is white voters without a college degree. That was a key group for Trump in 2016. If you look at, say, the state of Wisconsin right now and you look at how they are going, take a look here, the results in 2016 was he won white voters without a college degree by 16 points. Now, his margin is down to just four.
We are seeing it throughout the country and the national polls, as well, where Trump simply put is not doing as well with his base, and you can compare that to the pre-election polls, as well.
One last thing that I will point out to you, Don, which is so important, if the polling averages are as wrong as they were in 2016, Joe Biden would still win. That doesn't mean that the poll averages are going to be as good as they were in 2016. They could be worse. But Donald Trump needs a worse polling mistake this year in order to accomplish what he did four years ago.
LEMON: The Harry Enten has spoken, everyone.
ENTEN: I have spoken. You have listened. We still got some voting to do, though.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Thank you, Harry. I will see you soon.
ENTEN: Thank you.
LEMON: We got a long way even though it's just 70 something hours. But it's still a long time to Election Day.
ENTEN: A lot of sleep to be missed by me.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Thank you, sir. See you soon.
ENTEN: Thank you.
LEMON: Have a great weekend.
ENTEN: You, too.
LEMON: One of the big Senate races is Senator Lindsey Graham versus Democratic challenger Jaime Harrison.
[23:15:03]
LEMON: They squared off in their final debate tonight. Guess who is here. You're never going to believe it. Senator -- oh, no, no. Jaime Harrison is here, and he's next. That as the president and Joe Biden are ramping up the rallies in the final push to Election Day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello, Michigan.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hello, Iowa.
TRUMP: Hello, Wisconsin.
Hello, Rochester.
BIDEN: Hello, Minnesota.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: One of the highest profile races next week is for South Carolina Senate seat. Republican Lindsey Graham is facing a tough challenge from Jaime Harrison, a Democratic nominee. The two candidates squared off in a final debate earlier this evening, where Graham repeatedly tried to tie Harrison to the progressive members of the Democratic Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): He is going to be with them, folks, when it comes to the big stuff. And I'm going to stop what I think is one of the most radical agendas coming out of Nancy Pelosi's House if I'm in the Senate.
[23:20:00]
GRAHAM: If the Republicans keep the Senate, I'm the budget chairman. If the Democrats take the Senate back, Bernie Sanders is the budget chairman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Thank you, Mr. Graham.
GRAHAM: This stuff really matters. Don't be fooled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Lay it for two seconds.
JAIME HARRISON, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATE: Listen, if you had Nancy Pelosi on the drinking game tonight, get a designated driver because he has had hit that a lot. Listen, you can't give anybody a lesson on telling the truth. You're the man who said, hold the tape, use my words against me. Senator, you have constantly lied to the people here in South Carolina. You lied about term limits. You have lied about the Supreme Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Jaime Harrison joins me now, a Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate. It looked pretty contentious. It looked like a great debate. Good evening to you, by the way. You're in the --
HARRISON: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: -- final few days -- final few hours really of a hard, fought election. How are you feeling about your chances?
HARRISON: I feel really good, Don, yet another debate where we felt that we won this debate. Senator Graham is talking about everything else other than his record in being in Washington, D.C. for the past 25 years.
He said Nancy Pelosi's name so much. You know, I thought, maybe -- are we running for the House? I thought we were running for the U.S. Senate. But, yes, he is just desperate. It's sad to see, a man who is the chair in the Senate Judiciary Committee, one of the most powerful members in the U.S. Senate, and he is just desperate.
LEMON: I want to play another moment from the debate tonight. You and Senator Graham were asked whether systemic racism exists in America today. Here is how he started his answer. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: I grew up in central South Carolina, the first in my family to ever go to college. My dad was a World War II veteran. He started a restaurant, a bar, pool room downstairs I ran when I was a kid, a liquor store on the other side.
When I was a kid, African-Americans would come in and buy the beer to go. And I remember asking my parents, why was that? And they said that's just the way it is. They were good people. That's not the way it is anymore, and I'm glad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: What were you thinking when he said that?
HARRISON: You know, I have said this on a number of occasions. Lindsey Graham is a relic of the old south. I'm trying to build a bridge to the new south, one that is bold, inclusive, and diverse. You know, this is the same guy who said African-Americans and immigrants can do anything in the state as long as they are conservatives, not liberal.
I mean, again, this is an old language that there's just no place for right now. We need someone who -- who actually has a foot in the future, not in our past. And, you know, that's why Senator Graham needs to go.
LEMON: Well, that was -- OK. Anyways, you were there, this is your fight. I was fascinated to hear him use that analogy. So, you know, so far, more than 1.2 million have already voted in South Carolina. That is double the number of absentee ballots that were filed in 2016. What is your read on the early vote so far?
HARRISON: It's great so far, Don. I'm very, very pleased with the early vote, so much excitement for this particular race. But the one thing I am concerned about, it's some confusing and conflicting information that is out there.
You know, everyone in South Carolina can vote absentee early this year without an excuse. I think that has helped facilitate such a robust turnout. But the one thing for folks who have a ballot at home, you need to make sure that you sign your ballot and get a witness signature, if you are going to vote an absentee.
Now, one of the things I'm saying, given the late hour, folks need to take their ballot directly to the voter registration office. Do not send those ballots in. But make sure, make sure, if you are submitting it, sign that ballot and you also get a witness signature.
I'm told there are almost 2,000 ballots that they are going to throw out and they are not going to give people an opportunity to cure, cure the mistake that they have made. And that's just a travesty. We need to do better. That is why when I get in the U.S. Senate, I am going to change a lot of these things in terms of how we vote, because we shouldn't try to put barriers up in front of folks as they try to exercise their right to vote.
LEMON: Jaime, I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much. You got to -- listen, 70 some hours but still a long way to go. Thank you.
HARRISON: Thank you, Don. I appreciate it.
LEMON: All right. Trump is holding 17 rallies. Biden is hitting the trail with Obama. Whose final push will take them all the way to the White House?
Plus, Senator Amy Klobuchar responds to Trump's complaints about his rally size in her state.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The 2020 race is entering the final weekend before Election Day as Joe Biden and President Trump appear to make their last pitch to voters. Both candidates are spending a lot of time in the Rust Belt, a region seeing some of the biggest coronavirus spikes in the country.
President Trump is holding potential super spreader rallies and spreading lies, as well, about doctors. Joe Biden is blaming the president for the worsening pandemic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID. You know that, right? I mean, our doctors are very smart people. So, what they do is they say, I'm sorry, but, you know, everybody dies of COVID.
BIDEN: He said we are rounding the corner, it's going away. And only he can say we are learning to live with it. Well, maybe you remember what I told him. We're not learning to live with it. We're learning how to die with it, because of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, let's discuss. Anthony Scaramucci is here, the former White House communications director. CNN political commentator Alice Stewart is here, as well.
[23:30:00]
LEMON: Good evening to both of you. Anthony, listen, just when you think the president cannot go any lower, he does. He is attacking doctors, accusing them of padding the COVID numbers to make money. How does anyone buy this and in what universe does it make sense to anybody?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL FOUNDER AND PARTNER: It's not -- it's not that, it is just corralling the people around him. Remember, he is the last white man standing in the great culture war, Don. So, he can say and do anything, they will galvanize around him.
That's the narrative going on the other network. Donald Trump, he is the last guy standing, and so the result of which he can say and do anything. And he likes it. He thinks he gets a good reaction from the crown from that sort of stuff.
You know, the Republicans that are sensible and sound-minded, they know this stuff is crazy. They can't even defend it anymore. And every day, just a few more chip off and say, you know what, I can't vote for this anymore, I can't vote for the super spreading, I can't vote for the lying, I can't vote for the denigration of the doctors like this.
And he is going to lose. He is going to get annihilated on Tuesday. I told you that 15 months ago when we were alone together, I said, you watch how this unfolds, he is an unstable, not well, can't manage a situation, if we get into a crisis, he is going to dematerialize before our eyes.
That is what he is doing. He's stuck. It's almost like military grade propaganda that he is at 40 percent given the destruction that he has brought on the society.
LEMON: Listen, a lot of people still have to vote. We still have to count them, Anthony. I mean, it ain't over, as they say, until it is over.
SCARAMUCCI: I didn't say it was over. I just said he is going to get destroyed. Over the next 72 hours, we are going to be working super hard to get that vote out. I will be in battleground states doing local radio.
LEMON: You are relentless.
SCARAMUCCI: Of course. Come on, man. This is a life or death situation for the American people. They've got to wake up here. If this guy gets re-elected, there will be hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths as a result of this pandemic. And so, we are going to be out there speaking about it and telling people the truth.
LEMON: All right. Let's bring in Alice.
SCARAMUCCI: Nice to see you, Alice.
LEMON: I know. Alice, he is trying to take over.
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Anthony.
LEMON: He doesn't want you to speak.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes. LEMON: Listen, President Trump is holding more than a dozen potential super spreader rallies over the next few days. He is downplaying the virus as it continues to hit record highs. Do you think -- I don't know. Are the folks around him or do Republicans really think that that is a smart closing argument?
STEWART: I think -- let me just first start off by saying obviously we can count Anthony Scaramucci down as undecided at this stage of the game.
(LAUGHTER)
SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
STEWART: We will go with that.
SCARAMUCCI: You can't call me a never Trumper because I was once a Trumper.
STEWART: That is true. Look, the president has spoken for hours and hours today in the last several weeks and will speak for several hours between now and Election Day about his closing argument.
And part of that does include coronavirus and his commitment to making sure that we find a safe and effective vaccine and reminding the American people what he has done to provide PPEs. And also, encouraging what public health officials are saying with regard to safely and effectively opening up schools and businesses.
But there is more to the closing argument than that. That it's what he has done to the economy, the GDP numbers are tremendous, what he will do with regard to safely opening up schools and businesses, touting his successes with regard to Supreme Court and Israel, and a lot of the things he has done in the past and reminding voters what he has done.
There's a reason why, at these rallies, there are more than just Republicans. There are a lot of undecided. There are a lot of Democrats. There are a lot of people who did not vote in 2016.
So it is really unfair to assume that everyone there is just a deplorable Trump base supporter. He is bringing new voices to the table. I think it's really premature to spike the football --
LEMON: OK.
STEWART: -- for anyone because it is not decided yet.
LEMON: That's why I said to Anthony that -- listen, people still have to go to the polls and the votes have to be counted, right? Again, back to the premise of my question, when you said that he needs to remind people, does he really want to remind people of the job that he has done with COVID?
Because perhaps, not perhaps, businesses would be open now. People would be back in school. Our lives would be back to some degree of normalcy. If there was more buy-in, from the Trump administration and from Trump supporters.
Had he said early on, when the scientists and the doctors said, OK, now we have evidence that masks do work, instead of saying, I'm not going to do it, telling people not to do it, telling people to open up, we would be in a much different place.
[23:34:56]
LEMON: My question was is it wise for him to remind people of the terrible job that he has done? There's no question about it. He has done a terrible job. I don't know what spin that he wants to put on it or his supporters. But he has done an awful job when it comes to the coronavirus.
We have thousands of people who are dying every single week and will be daily now. He has not done a great job. And he wants to have rallies in places where he doesn't want to social distance and he doesn't encourage people to wear masks? Why would that be his closing argument? It's an alternate universe, Alice. I mean, come on.
STEWART: Don, one death is too many. And the number of deaths that we have had with regard to COVID is astronomical. It is heartbreaking. Obviously, we all wish none of this would happen. But we can't second guess what could have been done or should have been done. And also, Don, we can't blame everything --
LEMON: But Alice, with all due respect --
STEWART: -- on this president. We have to look --
LEMON: -- we are not guessing. The scientists and the doctors are telling us. When you look at the evidence, the shear evidence, the reality of the -- of what is out there, the evidence that is on the table about places where people wear masks, where people socially distance, the numbers go down, the infection rates go down. Where people don't, they go up.
In the beginning, Alice, I mean, this is just shear evidence. This is not like -- this is not -- I'm not making this up. No one is making this up. In the beginning, it was blue states like New York and Washington where people came in from overseas, in places like New York City where people are close together, where there are many more people than in rural places and places that are traditionally red places.
But now, the red states, the red areas are seeing higher infection rates because they are not following the science that's being put out there. This isn't me saying this is Democrat whatever, this is just -- this is facts.
This is what is so frustrating about people now who believe the president when he says that this -- we are rounding the corner. Alice, it is happening. The science is there. This is not a hypothetical.
STEWART: I'm not in agreement that we are rounding the corner on this, Don. I think we still need to use caution. We need to heed the advice of health officials. We need to wear masks. We need to social distance. I'm not a fan of these big rallies. I think people should be certainly much more careful when it comes to this.
But we have to remember, this is not a red state problem or a blue state problem. COVID is a nonpartisan issue and a lot of these decisions have been made --
LEMON: But again, Alice, it is not his closing arguments. His closing argument is that it's happening in blue states -- this is his words. It should be democratic. But he says where there are Democrat mayors and Democrat governors in blue states. He is making this about blue and red states instead of the United States. That is not his closing arguments.
I know you want -- you probably wish that was his closing arguments. But it's not. He is not relying on science at all. He is not in reality at all when it comes to this virus. He is out there spreading BS to his supporters and bringing them in to rallies not socially distancing and putting their health at risk.
I don't understand what -- I don't get it. I don't get how you are -- why you are arguing in favor of something that is just not based in reality. Alice, are you there? She can't hear me. OK. I got to go. I'm sorry. We will try to get Alice back. I have to run. We will be right back. Sorry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Less than 73 hours until Election Day and both campaigns are focusing on the Midwest. The president and Joe Biden were in Minnesota today, a state that Hillary Clinton won in 2016.
Joining me now is Democrat Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator, thank you. It is good to see you.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): It is good to see you, Don. Thanks for having me on.
LEMON: Absolutely. We just learned tonight that Minnesota is not going to appeal yesterday's appeals court ruling that mail-in ballots in Minnesota must be received no later than Election Day. What does it mean for the vote in your state?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, they could do something with that ruling after the election. I think the decision was made because we need consistency and clarity in these next few days, and we need a very clear direction to our voters. And that is that you can't put those ballots in the mail anymore even though they say that they can be postmarked on Election Day.
What you need to do is to deliver the mail-in ballots to a drop off box near your place or you can vote in person in Minnesota. You can find out where all those places are on iwillvote.com.
LEMON: I have to ask you about the president. As I was watching earlier this evening, President Trump was unhappy that his rally size in Minnesota was limited by COVID restrictions. He is holding 17 battleground state rallies in four days. He is banking on an Election Day surge like last time. Will he be able to pull it off again, you think?
KLOBUCHAR: I don't think so. And I don't think so, Don, because people are voting in droves. Over 85 million Americans have cast their ballots.
[23:44:58]
KLOBUCHAR: There are so many independents and moderate Republicans, people who voted for Trump or stayed home, and they are just saying, wait a minute, people voted four years ago. You know, and especially as I look at the suburbs of the twin cities.
They are saying, um, OK, do I want to have a guy? It's very practical. We are practical in the Midwest. Do I want to have a president for four more years that could not even get the protective equipment out to the nurses and doctors or the testing out? And I'm going to entrust him with getting a vaccine out that could save my life? I don't think so.
And so that's why I think you see a confidence argument big time winning out throughout the Midwest, as well as the hard and compassion of Joe Biden compared to someone who tries to divide people and be mean to people and go after people every day. People have had it with that.
LEMON: So, Senator Biden is heading to two states in the homestretch. Trump is crisscrossing the country. Are you concerned Joe Biden is being out hustled in the homestretch?
KLOBUCHAR: Not one bit. He has gone everywhere. And mostly, what I like about him is the discipline, what he is talking about, that last closing argument in Warm Springs, Georgia. I got to talk to him today in Minnesota and talked to him about how important that was where he went to that place where Franklin Roosevelt went to heal and heal our country and heal himself.
And that that was his closing message. That is what Joe Biden stands for. And Franklin Roosevelt was able to save this country through his policies but also through his heart. And Joe Biden is going to make the same move the minute he gets in the White House.
So, I just -- I think that you see his message resonating and you see his surrogates out. I love the fact that John Kasich and Cindy McCain, I just did a Zoom call with her in Minnesota, and all of the Republicans, Colin Powell, Republicans that have come out for Joe Biden, really helped to make his case, as well.
LEMON: Well, senator, you sound confident. I appreciate you joining us. I am sure I will be seeing you --
KLOBUCHAR: Only if people vote, Don.
LEMON: Right. Yes.
KLOBUCHAR: I know we can relive our town hall meeting --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: There were so many.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I know, but who's counting? Thank you, senator. I appreciate it.
KLOBUCHAR: OK. See you soon.
LEMON: See you. We will be right back.
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[23:50:00]
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LEMON: So, on the final weekend before Election Day, the COVID pandemic is raging out of control. President Trump falsely claims we're rounding a turn. That it's, you know, going away. And he ignores the devastating impact on America's seniors. But senior women are sending a strong message to the president. We matter and we vote.
Here's CNN's Kate Bolduan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So at 78 years old, what is it that drives you to stand on a street corner in the rain, in the cold, to get your face out there?
JANE VAN ZANDT, DEMOCRATIC NH HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE CANDIDATE: We really want to win. If people don't see us, they're not going to know to vote for us.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Jane Van Zandt is a New Hampshire Democrat. She has spent her entire life serving others as a nurse, episcopal priest, and now in 2020, she is running for elected office for the first time.
VAN ZANDT: I had no idea what to expect, to begin with. And, of course, now with COVID, we can't knock on doors. So, we're relying on phone calls and yard signs. Being an old lady, I'm not all that steady on my feet. So, I'm -- I'm OK with not knocking on doors.
BOLDUAN: Has President Trump factored into your decision to run?
VAN ZANDT: Yes, probably, probably because it just gets worse and worse every day. And I think senior citizens, for example, all marginalized people, are at risk.
BOLDUAN: A vast majority of the coronavirus deaths in the country have been seniors. Here in New Hampshire, 96 percent of those killed by COVID have been 60 and older. That weighs heavily on the women we are talking to, on their lives, on their vote, and also on how much they think the president sees their value to the country.
GAIL MORRISON, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I'm very concerned about the pandemic. I am 77 years of age. I live with a woman who is 75 years of age. We do not want to become ill and die yet. We're not ready.
BOLDUAN: What do you think of the president's handling of the response to the pandemic?
MORRISON: There has been no constructive action that he has taken, whatsoever.
BOLDUAN: Donald Trump says, essentially, don't worry about the virus because only older people get it. How does it make you feel to hear that?
MORRISON: Excluded, expendable, that we don't matter, and if we get it and we become very ill, it doesn't matter that we might need ventilators and be dead in two days.
BOLDUAN: He sent out a picture.
[23:54:57]
BOLDUAN: It was Joe Biden's face kind of photo-shopped on to a man sitting in a wheelchair, clearly targeting age.
MORRISON: Anybody of my age has to say he's talking about me. He's not just talking about Joe Biden.
KAREN CERVANTES, REPUBLICAN VOTING FOR BIDEN: COVID, as far as I'm concerned, that was the main decider. I'm a diabetic. I'm 72. I'm compromised. I do not have any desire to get it.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Karen Cervantes is a mom, grandmother, and small-business owner in Western New Hampshire. She is also a die-hard Republican.
Have you ever voted for a Democrat before? For president, even?
CERVANTES: No, absolutely not. This is the first time. I've already voted. I voted absentee, and I have voted for Biden.
BOLDUAN: How would you describe the last four years, for you, under President Trump?
CERVANTES: Exhausting. I find it absolutely exhausting, the insults. If Trump wins, the very next day, I'm going down to Lebanon City Hall, and I am registering as an independent, after 55 years.
CINDY ROSENWALD (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE STATE SENATOR: People are anxious, and they're anxious for the election to be over.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Sixty-six-year-old New Hampshire State Senator Cindy Rosenwald is up for re-election. She says, even beyond COVID-19, this election is different from any other.
How important are older, women voters in this election?
ROSENWALD: You can always count on us to show up and vote. And you can count on older women to also do the grassroots campaign work, too.
BOLDUAN: Do you think it's fair to consider age in a decision of who to vote for as president?
VAN ZANDT: Well, this election, I don't see where it makes much difference because, you know, they're both older people.
BOLDUAN: What would you say to a voter who says, Jane, you're too old to run?
VAN ZANDT: I say, watch me.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: This is not predictive, of course, of how all older women will vote this cycle. In fact, we talked to one woman in New Hampshire who is a huge Trump supporter. Unfortunately, she did not want to speak on camera.
Four years ago, seniors split between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire. In national polls, this cycle, Joe Biden is leading, and he is seen as performing better among seniors than any Democrat has in a generation. Don?
LEMON: Kate Bolduan, thank you so much. And thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.
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