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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Administration Blocking Transition Process; Department Of Justice's Top Election Crime Prosecutor Resigns; Interview With Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA); Arizona And Georgia Not Yet Called As Vote Counting Continues; Georgia's Senate Runoff Could Decide Who Controls Senate; Donald Trump Fires Secretary Of Defense Mark Esper; World Leaders Congratulate Joe Biden On His Victory; White House, Senate GOP, DOJ And Right-Wing Media Join Forces To Try To Deny Biden's Election; U.S. Passes 10 Million Coronavirus Cases. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 09, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So, the reality is Joe Biden won. He is our President-Elect but this is a crisis and there are forces working to try to deny Biden's election from Mitch McConnell and other members of his Party to the Attorney General William Barr.

The latest tonight, the Justice Department's top election crimes prosecutor resigning in protest after the Attorney General told prosecutors they should examine allegations of voting irregularity before states move to certify results in the coming weeks. Biden transition officials telling CNN they are not ruling out possible legal action to force the administration to affirm Biden's victory.

So I want to bring in now CNN's White House correspondent John Harwood and CNN's senior justice correspondent Mr. Evan Perez. Good evening to both f you. Evan, so you have some new reporting tonight it's coming right now about the situation at Bill Barr's Justice Department. I'm just getting you know, what you wrote here. It seems it's unbelievable. What do you know?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right, Don. This is the top election crimes prosecutor, his name is Richard Pilger and he resigned tonight after Bill Barr issued a new policy memo. Now this policy memo was written in very dense legally and a lot of us were kind of scratching our heads trying to figure out what it meant. But it turns out what it means is that Bill Barr is his telling prosecutors around the country that it's OK for them to go ahead and do over investigative stuff, like interviewing witnesses, and so on, looking into potential ballot fraud, election irregularities in the period before the states actually certify their election results.

What this has the effect of is that you could hear in the next couple of weeks, we could hear of prosecutors investigating or even bringing cases against people who are accused of election fraud before states get a chance to certify their results and thereby giving Donald Trump and his campaign some red meat. Something that they have been lacking, something they don't have right

now, which is example, you know, concrete examples of ballot fraud which would try to support what the president has been claiming, that he lost this election and that he didn't lose this election, he's losing it because of massive fraud, Don.

LEMON: John, Joe Biden is the president-elect but there is a widespread effort not only at the Justice Department but in the Senate as well, and the conservative media tried to deny and obstruct the election results. What is happening here?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What's happening, Don is we have a president who is not mentally healthy as you heard from Mary Trump. He can't handle the idea that he has lost. And so he is responding by ranting and lying and breaking stuff. And the stuff he's breaking is within the U.S. Government, but his moods, his fantasies have held the Republican Party hostage because the Republican Party is afraid of Donald Trump, dependent on Donald Trump and they are simply not willing to buck him at this point.

Now at some point, you've got to think that they are going to move on. As you noted earlier this evening, they have a motive to try to whip up their base for the Georgia Senate elections, but the longer this goes on, the more destructive it is for the United States government, for American democracy and we don't know how long they're going to put up with it.

LEMON: Evan, is this all smoke and mirrors or could the Barr Justice Department do some real damage here? Because it was apparently serious enough for this top prosecutor to resign on the same day.

PEREZ: Look, Don. I mean, when we first saw this memo we thought, OK, you know what, your issuing a memo telling prosecutors to look for fraud which is what they're supposed to be doing, right. That's part of their job. But look, there are 93 U.S. attorneys around the country.

And you don't know whether there is a prosecutor out there who is willing to put his reputation on the line. His or her reputation on the line to bring forward a case that will appear very politicized just so that the president has something to hang his hat on.

That's the part of this that we don't know. We have no idea what these investigations are that might be ongoing, there is one thing for sure. Donald Trump is trailing Joe Biden by tens of thousands of votes, right?

[23:05:11]

We're talking at least 150,000 votes over these states that are very closely contested, that matter. And it's not clear, and no one seems to believe that there are enough votes here that could be called into question by alleged fraud that would overturn that. So, this is a Hail Mary pass. We don't know what we don't know, we don't know what they will find but at a minimum. There is a possibility that some prosecutor out there could bring

something just so that the president has something that he can go around saying, see, I told you there was fraud, even if those instances don't amount to enough to overturn the election victory by Joe Biden.

LEMON: Even if there's mistakes or if there's one or a couple, right, they will use that as an example to say, see, here's what and there's no -- right.

PEREZ: We're talking about tens of thousands over a hundred thousand votes. That's not -- exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I got you. Thank you, Evan. Thank you, John. I'll see. I want to turn now to Democratic Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania. Good to see you Senator. Thank you so much. Your wall is gone. So, we still have John King is here. But listen I got to talk to you about this very seriously, this stuff that is happening here.

I know you want to talk about the new President-Elect chosen by a huge margin of the American people. And yet we have coordinated effort from top Republicans to deny and obstruct this election, what is the Biden response to this do you think?

SEN. BOB CASEY (D-PA): Well, Don. Great to be with you. I think the Biden's response is what you saw today. Joe Biden is going to do his job. He's doing the job right now preparing by meeting with the task force in getting briefed and getting prepared to execute a strategy to control the virus, to tackle this virus.

He talked about it in his campaign and it is number one issue for most Americans, I think and that's what he's going to do. And no matter what this Republicans do, just like some of them (inaudible) people voted in record number, and Joe Biden won. He's going to do his job. And no matter what they do, no matter they say, no matter how much they abuse the process, he's going to be sworn in as president and we all have the job to just help him on the virus and on rebuilding the economy.

LEMON: So, your estimation, you believe this is nonsense, right? Even the Trump campaign filing this lawsuit, attempting to block Pennsylvania's election results, they're saying that absentee voting is illegal. You still believe that this is nonsense?

CASEY: Oh yes, total nonsense and it's irresponsible. No lawyers should be filing the lawsuit. It is total -- it is a denial of what just happened over the last couple of days. Joe Biden won Pennsylvania by winning (inaudible) and the Electoral College. It is over. And I think most Americans want to turn the page.

I think even some supporter of the president knows that we have to turn the page. The faster we can get that done, the faster we can begin to deal with this virus that is just raging. As you know and as you just pointed out in your reporting, they've left higher numbers, these are worse than they were in this (inaudible).

LEMON: Yes. And it is still out there. We can't take our foot off the gas. It is interesting to me that as I am looking at for the exact numbers here. It's interesting to me that, you know, once we got close to the election, and when the media -- they should sort of focusing more on the election and less on COVID. It seems like these outbreaks started happening and more cases started happening which shows us we need to continue to pay attention to this. This is very serious and people are becoming infected and they're dying.

So, I think that you are absolutely right about that. But I have to ask you because I think and I am wondering what you think of your Republican colleagues? Because only four of them in the Senate have acknowledged that Joe Biden is now the President-Elect. What are they waiting for?

CASEY: Well, they are afraid of the president. It's simple as that. A lot of it as a number of people commented, this is (inaudible) original idea, but a lot of this it is 2024 or maybe about the darkest satellite. Republicans are worried that Donald Trump may either attack (inaudible) were some form of (inaudible) over the next couple of months or the next two years.

It is literally a case that the National Republican Party politician, they can't live with them. They can't live without him. They don't know what to do. They don't know whether to put him out of the room because he lost. But that means they won't be able to reach the voters that allowed Joe Biden to win Pennsylvania.

[23:10:10]

There are going to be a (inaudible). You have to get more voters from suburban community. You should try to get more votes from communities of color, but their parties is in trouble with a lot of Americans. A group of Americans that are growing in population and yet they are going to -- they try every day to genuflect to Donald Trump, instead of doing the right thing.

LEMON: Thank you Senator. Always a pleasure.

CASEY: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: So nearly a week after the election votes still being counted in a handful of states. Our senior political analyst is Mr. Mark Preston, he is looking at the numbers for you. So Mark, it's you know, sometimes, right we're still counting after elections. Right? This isn't that unusual. Ballots are still being counted -- several battleground states in we have them on my screen now. Biden is leading President Trump in Pennsylvania. He's leading in Georgia, he's leading in Arizona. Bu tell me more about Arizona.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well so a couple of things here, Don. And I think it's very important. You know, Bob Casey said, people want to move on. They do want to move on, but people also voted and they deserve to have their votes counted. And also, us talking about this and showing this transparency really does help to squash some of the conspiracy theories that are going out there.

But look at Arizona right there, as we said, as I set that up there, Right now 1.6 million votes have been cast for each of those candidates which Joe Biden has a 17,000 vote lead, still votes coming in from a couple of counties. Now state officials said they'll could be counting still a little bit more. Now here's a question on a recount in Arizona. Very hard for Donald Trump, because if Joe Biden holds this lead, if he holds a lead more than 200 votes, Don, then Joe Biden will win Arizona very easily, they'll be no recount in that state.

LEMON: Yes. And if he does, you know, he'll be way over the number that he needs to win, and then everyone will say well why are you contesting this and taking it to court?

PRESTON: Yes.

LEMON: Because still, if you overturn what you said then Trump would probably not win anyway, but that's in the future let's see if that happens. So, let's talk about Georgia Mark. Biden's lead had increase there, right?

PRESTON: It sure has. It's increased by about almost 12,000 votes and this morning when I was reporting on this, he was about 10,300 votes. But if you see that, both those candidates can receive more than 2.4 million votes there. You know, the good news is that there were some problems and some glitches with some ballot counting in some of the counties, the suburban counties outside of Atlanta, and they were able to fix that.

Now what's interesting about this now unlike Arizona, less than 0.5 percent triggers a recount if asked for by one of the campaigns. We already see that the Trump campaign has named Doug Collins, who is a Georgia Congressman, who helped lead the impeachment defense of Donald Trump, he will lead that recount effort. That will still need to be certified and then we will see that recount, Don.

LEMON: So, Mark, before we get to Pennsylvania, let's stay in -- let's talk about Georgia a little bit more. Because the control of the Senate is likely to decide, you know, in that state. That is going to be decided early next year. Republicans appear to be attacking one another here. What's going on?

PRESTON: You know, this is, this is a really interesting situation. So, we saw the two Republican Senators, Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue put out a statement today calling for the Republican Secretary of State to step down. And the reason being is, look where we are right there with David Perdue.

David Perdue needed to get more than 50 percent of the vote, 50 plus one in order to avoid this runoff with John Ossoff. He was unable to do it, that's going force a runoff in on to January 5th. In addition to that, you'll see Kelly Loeffler as well is going to go into runoff against Raphael Warnock gain on January 5th.

Interesting about this as you said, Republicans are going to control the Senate very likely by a 50 to 48 margin going into January 5th. If Democrats are able to pick up those two seats, and I got to tell you, it would be very difficult for them to do so, then you have a 50/50 Senate, and Senator Kamala Harris then Vice President Kamala Harris will be the deciding vote.

LEMON: Will be the deciding -- like Mike Pence' at. That is some really important legislation. Hey, Mark, I have less than 10 seconds here. Just a quick update on Pennsylvania. Can you do it?

PRESTON: Yes, I mean, looked, Pennsylvania Joe Biden won Pennsylvania. The lawsuit are ridiculous right now from Republicans and Trump. I mean, look, his lead keeps on growing at this point and you have to ask yourself Don, like, when they're filing all these lawsuits without any evidence, would even Judge Judy accept them?

I had to throw that out there come on. It's in the 11:00 hour.

LEMON: I'm not messing with Judge Judy, man.

PRESTON: A powerful one.

(LAUGHTER)

[23:15:00]

LEMON: Thank you, Mark. I appreciate it.

PRESTON: Take care.

LEMON: The current president putting the American people in danger, firing his defense secretary in a middle of a transition, while the world is watching. And we were learning tonight that he may not be the last to be fired.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So here's where we are right now. The president is firing his Defense Secretary Mark Esper, he did that today. And that may not be the end of his scorch earth strategy. A senior administration official tells CNN, FBI Director Christopher Wray and the CIA Director Gina Haspel could be next.

So, joining me now, the former NATO supreme allied commander, General Wesley Clark. General, good to see you, thank you. Is this serious? I see you get your serious face on you. When you are talking about these people, the Defense Secretary Esper out, fears that Haspel and Wray could be next. Is that incredibly dangerous especially during a transition?

WESLEY CLARK, RET. GEN. FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: It is dangerous. It does raise risks. It's demoralizing the people in the National Security Agencies, who had stayed behind. Yes it's very hurtful and of course is very a characteristic of Donald Trump, he is angry, he wants to hurt people and break things.

[23:20:13] He's never been happy really with the national security apparatus

because they've never really supported his theory about cozying up to Russia, Russia such a great friend, etcetera, etcetera. Get rid of our allies. So this is a good way to strike back.

But Donald also demonstrates his power as part of keeping the Republicans in the Senate cowed, as far as keeping the focus on Donald Trump and his power in the news media as he goes out of office, so he doesn't look like he's cowering in the White House. No, no, he's in charge. He's going to fire people. And so, I guess there are a lot of people out there who support him. 57 percent of white Americans voted for Donald Trump.

LEMON: Isn't that amazing.

CLARK: It's hard to believe despite COVID, despite the mismanagement of COVID, despite his threat to U.S. national security, despite the fact that he really hasn't done anything for working class Americans. That tax cut did not go to ordinary people, and yet 57 percent of white Americans voted for him.

This is your significant issue for America and he's gone pounding the troubles we have now by trying to knock off the top of our national security apparatus. We need these people on office to do an orderly transition.

LEMON: Let me ask you then. So, you know we learned tonight that the Intel community isn't briefing president-elect on Biden on national security issues because of the holdup of the transition by the GSA. That's is like a huge problem?

CLARK: It is a problem, but on the other hand, President-Elect Biden has the most experienced group of people that have ever been part of a transition.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Thank you for making my point that I made earlier. Thank you so much.

Yes, I think that's going to help, but listen we have to continue to point out just how absurd what the current administration is doing. But the fact that he has good people around him, and he has that experience, that's going to help and people should at least take some solace in that? Right

CLARK: Absolutely. Look, these people have all been in the Obama administration, (inaudible) efficient. Tony Lincoln, Susan Rice, Michelle (inaudible), they are first rate people. They are right up at the top.

Of course, the military is still there, and the thing about it is these people have wanted him away from government, most of them for four years, they know these military leaders. They know the intelligence people near the top of the agency. So, it's not the right way to do a transition but if there was ever a time that a President- Elect can handle it, it's President-Elect Biden and his team.

LEMON: I'm glad. I was trying to reassure people at the top of the show and you making my point at least backing me up. I really appreciate it and it helps. So general, President-Elect Biden says that he wants America to reengage with the world after a volatile four years. Will U.S. allies be ready to forgive and forget and you know, get back on board with us?

CLARK: Well, they certainly want to. But it's going to take more than just words, it's going to take action. So we need to rejoin the Paris Climate Accord. We need to reinvigorate our relationships with our NATO allies. We need to do something about that crazy troop realignment in Europe that's pulling 10,000 troops out of Germany.

We need to put our allies on a new approach to Iran. We need to really relook our relationships with trade and our allies in Asia before we go careening into a face-off against China. So, this is a lot of hard diplomatic work. We'll work, not just rhetoric, its lots of smart people at different levels coordinating it, putting foreign policy proposals, bringing agreements up and setting a clear course of direction. That what our allies want to see.

LEMON: General --

CLARK: Especially Don, our allies and friends in Eastern Europe, they are desperate for American leadership. You can't believe the calls I got from my friends in Eastern Europe, in the Balkans and Ukraine, after President-Elect Biden was given the recognition of becoming a president.

They were celebrating in the streets, they have been so worried about Donald Trump's disengagement. So, they especially want strong American leadership, principled leadership. That stands up for our values. That reinvigorate our alliances. That makes America a leader in the world.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you. I'm sorry about the transmission and delays, I didn't mean to cut you off. And thank you for taking our -- you know, our blood pressure down.

(LAUGHTER)

[23:25:00]

I appreciate it, you'd be well. I'll see you soon general, thanks.

CLARK: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: A White House adviser says quote who knows what Trump will do in the last days in office? Next, I want to bring in Anthony Scaramucci to tell us what he is expecting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So take this. In the coming days, we are likely to learn more about who President-Elect Joe Biden wants in his cabinet. Right now, no names, just many important jobs that will need to be filled and a lot of work to be done. But Biden does -- he does know what he wants in his administration to look like. OK? Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, 2020 PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I said at the outset, I want to represent this campaign to represent and look like America. We've done that. Now it's what the administration will look like and act like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:29:58]

LEMON: So it won't look like these people. Attorney General Bill Barr, right, acting a lot more like the president's personal attorney? Tonight, he is indulging the president's bogus voter fraud claims, sending out a memo reminding federal prosecutors that they should examine allegations of voting irregularities before states move to certify results.

The Treasury Secretary, Steven Mnuchin, he refused to comply with Democrats' request and subpoenas for Trump's tax returns.

The education secretary, Betsy DeVos, a billionaire and a top GOP donor, some Republicans in the Senate would not vote to confirm her, so Vice President Pence had to step in to cast a tie-breaking vote.

The secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, is recently devoting time to unearthing Hillary Clinton's e-mails from her time at the State Department and busting norms by appearing at the RNC in support of President Trump on an unofficial visit to Israel.

And then there is DNI John Ratcliffe, a proponent of the deep state conspiracy. Come January, it is out with enablers and end with Vice President Biden's picks, a new cabinet and a new administration. That is a fresh start and there will be more diversity than what you saw there.

So, let's talk about this now with former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci. It is good to see you, Anthony. How are you feeling? Have I spoken to you since the election? Not on TV.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: No. I feel great. You know, I slept, had a lot of champagne. I feel good, Don. How are you feeling?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I feel all right. I'm still a little groggy out, to be quite honest with you. I could use another good night sleep. Let me ask you this. There is a lot of chaos going on. You compare -- you campaigned, I should say, hard for Biden. You told me that he would win. How are you feeling about these results and the turnout that we saw on Election Day?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen. I mean, I feel fine about it. I mean, I guess if you're asking about the 71 million people that voted for President Trump, I see that very differently than the Republicans do. That is a vote for themselves. It is not necessarily a vote for President Trump. That is a grievance vote. Many people feel left out of the system.

I think the vice president, now the president-elect understands that. He will be working on policies with that cabinet that he is about to name to help those people. And once those people are helped, Don, that anger dissipates and then they no longer need an avatar for their anger which was Donald Trump.

So, Trumpism and Donald Trump are about to go full on the ash sheep of American history. It is 71 days, six and a half Scaramucci. This guy is gone. He will be gone forever. People are thinking that he is going to be powerful when he leaves and all this sort of nonsense. It is a bunch of nonsense.

Once he falls from power, this was a humiliating loss. He is one of three American presidents since the end of the Second World War --

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

SCARAMUCCI: -- that lost the presidency. There is a whole list of reasons why. So, I mean, he's gifting right now, just raising this money for this legal defense fund because he got to pay off these campaign desks that these guys incurred. So, I mean, all of this stuff will come to an end.

LEMON: This is your thinking. This is not CNN's reporting. But why do you say what you say?

SCARAMUCCI: No, it's totally my thinking because I know how these guys think. Just go to the fine print and all of the mailings that they sent out. I still get their e-mails. Come and give me $35 for my defense fund. In the fine print, it says, oh, but we could also use this money for our campaign debt which we incurred.

The campaign, you know, blew through a billion dollars. At the end of the campaign, they were barely doing polls, so they got to pay back that money. So this is another ruse. They are taking advantage of these people by saying they have these legal cause which there is nobody. You can't bring one person on the air of any credibility that has a law degree that tells you that their claims are legitimate.

These are specious claims. All of which will be thrown out by these courts. The electors will be sanctified. The vice president will become the president of the United States. And on January 5th or 6th, I think it is, when the runoff is done in Georgia, this whole thing will collapse. This whole site show will end. And so that's what these guys are doing. I know these guys very well --

LEMON: This is -- do you believe this is to get money to help pay off campaign debt?

SCARAMUCCI: A hundred percent. They've raised at least $60 million since Election Day. God only knows how much they've raised so far. Get one of them on. Get one of them on CNN. They've got to go on other networks that won't ask them these tough questions. What are you guys doing with the money? How much campaign debt did you incur? How much have you raised? Why do you need $60 million to put up for these cases? I mean, it's just again --

LEMON: If these cases even make it to court.

SCARAMUCCI: A hundred percent. So this is just a sad thing for America.

[23:35:00]

SCARAMUCCI: It's another example of the grifting. But when this ends, it is going to end abruptly for Trumpism, OK? Trumpism expired on November 3rd. Now you are just seeing these burning embers. It will be dead long more for a lot longer than it was alive. The four years were a nightmare and a disaster, to use the president's own words, and it will soon be over.

People will be like, why do we do that again? Why do we have these people? Why did we allow them to break the norms in our society and our democracy?

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

SCARAMUCCI: And the answer is, OK, never again.

LEMON: Yeah.

SCARAMUCCI: You watch how this fortifies on January 21st.

LEMON: Yeah. I just -- if what you are saying is true -- again, it's not our reporting. But you know them. You've worked with them. If what you're saying is true, I was a, you know, a Trump supporter sending my money, I would be pissed.

SCARAMUCCI: I will send you all the e-mails they've send me. You can take a look at the fine print. You'll see right there that what I'm saying is true. They can use it for their defense fund. Why they need $60 million? God only knows. But we can also use it for the campaign and with other resources we have.

Let's see if we can run the clock here for a little while longer and raise money from these people who have bought into all of this nonsense and all of this conspiracy theory stuff that the president throws at them.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Anthony Scaramucci. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here.

LEMON: The Supreme Court could decide the future of Obamacare in just a few hours. We are going to break down what is at stake. Plus, legal battles the Trump campaign is mounting to try to change the outcome of the election. The voting lies coming out of the White House are so bad, even Fox News had to cut away today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We want every legal vote to be counted and we want every illegal vote to be --

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS HOST: Whoa, whoa, whoa, I just think we have to be very clear: She is charging the other side is welcoming fraud and welcoming illegal voting. Unless she has more details to back that up, I can't in good countenance continue showing you this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So the justice department's top election crime prosecutor is resigning in protest tonight after Attorney General William Barr told federal prosecutors that they should examine allegations of voting irregularities before states move to certify results in the coming weeks.

So, let's discuss now. Our senior legal analyst is Laura Coates, and she joins us now. Laura, here we go. It never, never ends. It is good to see you.

The federal prosecutors already know to look into voter fraud and irregularities. So why is Barr weeding into this issue? I mean, that's -- don't we do this every time there is an election? You do some checking to make sure that these things don't happen?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Prosecutors who were in that particular division are not just simply saying, oh, wait, is that now time for me to work? Give us an absolute immediate directive. They know they have to exercise (INAUDIBLE).

But we also know that we have to exercise caution, particularly around elections, because the way that the justice department, by putting their thumb on the scale, even announcing election investigations, even announcing any sort of investigation, can have an effect to sort of weigh down the process.

It can make people who would ordinarily be doing it in a very great way, trying to follow the process and the protocols, suddenly start to temper or change in some way out of fear of big brother watching. So we don't want to have anyone sort of sway the election that way.

The number you're talking about, unlikely to actually sway the election result. But still, that's the reason the DOJ has these policies. They had the policies about when James Comey came out to make a statement and we knew about the impact of that.

It's the same thing about trying to put the thumb on the scale now. Wait until after the results have been certified and then you should proceed. Now, if there is an overt substantive evidentiary basis to say that there has been fraud, by all means, they should be vigilant. But absent and short of that, we've got a problem.

LEMON: Have you seen anything that would lead you to believe that after watching these press conferences or these interviews on television that there is some substantive, you know, overt election fraud going on around the country?

COATES: Not a drop. Not an iota of evidence has even surfaced. All we have right now are bald desertions. We have got this idea of hey, here's the goal, the goal of the litigation. And then let's work backwards to figure out the (INAUDIBLE) that could possibly support what we have already concluded. That is not the way litigation works.

It is very difficult, if not exceedingly impossible, to try to reconstruct an Election Day scene, to try to assert fraud or clerical error or what the observers were unable to see by trying to prove it negative.

Hey, what I didn't see is exactly what actually caused me to lose here. Well, this is hard to reconstruct. They know that, which is why this is kind of an example of, when you gets at the end of your rope, you tie a knot and you hang on. We're seeing knots at every single litigation, not substantive litigation and evidence.

LEMON: And they can't - I mean, usually, you can make litigation drag on and on but there are with this -- when it's a presidential election, there are things that got to be certified and the person takes office. So, this is different in that way.

But, Laura, I have to ask you this. My dad was an attorney. My mom was a legal secretary. I learned so much from her and from you.

[23:45:00]

LEMON: When people say, you know, they've got an affidavit signed, that doesn't mean that that is true. You have to prove all of those things. It sounds good for people who are just listening and say oh, there is an affidavit. Therefore, it must be true. You got to prove all those things.

COATES: Yeah, you absolutely do. The idea of just having one affidavit or one particular document, the plural of anecdote is not data. It is not full evidence. Certainly, it can actually be persuasive if it is so clear from what was said and you can extrapolate to all things that could have gone wrong.

But one particular instant, one particular vote irregularity, now, I am not saying to just turn a blind eye, you have to pursue if there has been actual irregularities. But concocted versions of widespread fraud, you can't do that and expect to have integrity or faith in the democratic process.

You're absolutely right. The delay tactics here are very important because December 8 is the next date to watch. That is the date by which if an election has been certified, individual state and electors have what is called the safe harbor, their conclusion cannot be tampered with. And then the Congress will then look at who has decided to put their votes where, and then you have a president actually able to sworn in on inauguration day. If they delay past that December 8th deadline, you're pushing it further and further into the lap of Congress, and we already know it is divided and not truly perhaps the will of the people through an election process.

LEMON: Laura Coates, thank you. She has spoken. Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Thank you.

LEMON: I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: We'll be right back.

COATES: Fine.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: You know we have been talking a lot about election. But this COVID thing, man, we passed a grim milestone, 10 million cases today with 44 states spiking. President-elect Joe Biden is calling on Americans to wear masks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can save tens of thousands of lives if everyone would just wear a mask for the next few months. Not Democrat and Republican lives, American lives. You know, maybe we'd save the life of a person who stocks the shelf at your local grocery store. Maybe it saves the life of a member of your place of worship. Maybe it saves the lives of one of your children's teachers. Maybe it saves your life. So, please, I implore you, wear a mask.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's discuss now with Dr. Jonathan Reiner, the director of the Cardiac Catheterisation Lab at George Washington University Hospital. Doctor, thank you.

We have the president-elect there prioritizing the pandemic today, announcing his coronavirus advisory board. I just wonder what you think of his approach because this is -- every day, I get, you know, updated numbers, updated numbers, and it's getting out of control. What do you think of who he is choosing to advise him?

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION PROGRAM AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: I think it's great. You know, the sound clip that you just played, I think so many of us have been waiting, you know, nine months to hear our leader say that. You know, to implore, you know, his fellow Americans to do what's right to protect each other.

And so, you're right. The numbers are really bad. But, you know, every person that I've spoken to in medicine, who pays a lot of attention to this, feels a little bit unburdened today. It's really -- it's really interesting because, I think, for the first time since this pandemic began, the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: We have the promise of real leadership, and we have the promise of a -- what looks to be remarkably effective vaccine.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: So -- and we have an infrastructure, with leadership and science, to get us there. So, yeah, the numbers are bad, but the future looks much better.

LEMON: Yeah. Ellie (ph), if you can -- Director Ellie (ph), if you can put that picture back up. I just want to take a look at that picture as we talk. I mean, look. I just have to talk about the diversity in this picture. When they put it up is the first time I saw it. I don't know the diversity and the entirety of the -- of the Trump administration. This is -- I mean, it's unbelievable.

But, listen. Talk to me real quick about Ben Carson, the HUD secretary, David Bossie, campaign adviser, positive. Mark Meadows -- it's a hot spot over there.

REINER: Yeah. It would be easier to talk about who hasn't been infected at the White House. I had a patient asked me, last week, about attending that -- that event on election night. I told him that, maybe, he should ask Chris Christie how it worked out for him. You could predict that.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: You know, the White House had created this culture, this bizarre culture that demonized mask wearing. And I asked him, can you wear a mask in the east room? And he says, no, you can't wear a mask there.

LEMON: Well, there's your answer.

REINER: There's your answer.

LEMON: Yeah. Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure, Don.

LEMON: I'll see you soon.

REINER: Sure.

LEMON: Thank you. And thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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