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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Shows No Sign Of Conceding; Mike Pompeo Believes A Second Term For Trump; Three Pentagon Officials Resigned; Right-Wing Media's Tune Changed; Votes Still Being Counted In Swing States. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 10, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Thank you very much for watching. It's my favorite time of the night. CNN with D. Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Look at that, a whole --
CUOMO: Forty-five seconds early, so shut up.
LEMON: How did you manage that? Oh! Whoa!
CUOMO: A few times--
LEMON: Now, man!
CUOMO: --a few times I have been late in giving Don the show.
LEMON: Like last night?
CUOMO: And that is not respectful. Last night it was OK because of who I was talking about.
LEMON: But last night, it was fine. I was saying--
CUOMO: But--
LEMON: --it's totally fine. That was too bad.
CUOMO: I owed him some time. I want him to have the time. And I love talking to you.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: More the better.
LEMON: How are you doing?
CUOMO: I am not feeling this optimism that Jim Clyburn - look, I am no one to disrespect him. He's got incredible perspective. He's been through the wars on Capitol Hill. No question.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: But I see the Democrats kind of sitting back and waiting for cooler heads to prevail. Since when?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They are making something up out of whole cloth.
LEMON: Nothing.
CUOMO: For Trump to be right, Republicans and Democrats, in concerted action, connived, to steal an election from him, in different states, where on the same ballot, only he got screwed.
LEMON: Right.
[22:00:01]
CUOMO: But all the Republicans down ballot won?
LEMON: They won.
CUOMO: Come on, man.
LEMON: You know.
CUOMO: And then all the Republicans are like well you know.
LEMON: We got -- we got an integrity of the election.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I mean, this is scary stuff. The records set of hospitalizations --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- with COVID. And we're going to you have 70 days and then waiting for him to get over it?
LEMON: Hey, Chris, it's called hypocrisy. Look at the last election, when everyone was saying you have to have integrity. Integrity in our election is, I mean, come on. He won fair and square. Russia, no, there was no Russia involved, are you kidding me? So.
CUOMO: They need Russia this time.
LEMON: That's the point. Do you believe, you won't believe - you believe that Russians, or Russians did not interfere in the election? But real Americans did interfere in the elections? Actual Americans interfered? But not Russia, but real Americans?
CUOMO: Republicans and Democrats in different states.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: What does that say to you how do you feel about Americans?
CUOMO: For months it would've taken him to do this. You say hypocrisy, I have a different word that I learned in a beer commercial.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You can't say that on TV.
CUOMO: No, no, it's clean.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: I learned it on a beer commercial. Travesmockery (ph). A travesty, within a sham, within a mockery. That's what this is.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Wait.
CUOMO: That's what this is.
LEMON: One night, a couple of weeks ago, when I said I wanted to say it was a tragedy and a travesty. And I said it's a trajesty (ph), and everyone in social media said Don Lemon made up the perfect word by accident. This is a trajesty (ph). It is. I mean, what do you call it? Shamockery?
CUOMO: Travesmockery.
LEMON: Well, there you go.
CUOMO: Travesty inside of a sham, inside of a mockery, that's what's going on here.
LEMON: We have to be careful. We have to convey how serious it is. But we also, it's a delicate balance here. Because what he wants to do is to take over the news cycle, right? What he wants to do is for people to pay more attention to him than the new administration coming in, rather than you know a lame duck president.
And so, we have to be careful with that. And we also have to keep into perspective what's happening with these cases. People are, you know, coming out and saying I have this information, and then they're recanting. And then there is no real evidence here. Until we have some real evidence. There is nothing to see here move along.
CUOMO: I'm with you.
LEMON: Yes. And the other thing is that, Anthony Scaramucci, last night on the show, really opened my eyes and the viewer's eyes to something that many people did not notice. In a fine print of what they are sending out, these mailers that they're sending out, e-mails and what have you, to his constituents, it says that this money does not have to the recount.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: It can go to the campaign to pay back all of the money that they owe in the campaign. So. CUOMO: And his future efforts.
LEMON: And his future efforts. So, what does that mean? What does that -- what does that say about how he feels about you? That he can use a recount, which is fake, to take money from you, I'm sure a hardworking people who probably don't have much money to give many of them. And then use it to pay back his campaign debt. Imagine that.
CUOMO: When he's a billionaire.
LEMON: When he is a billionaire. Interesting.
CUOMO: I get the lame duck thing, I see it more as instead of lame duck, I see this as a mad cow. Because --
LEMON: As what?
CUOMO: Mad cow, instead of lame duck. Because this is insane. And my problem isn't with Trump, I'm used to him being his worst. It's the rest of that party. Four people have said that Biden is the president- elect.
LEMON: You said Johnson, I don't have anything. I have nothing to congratulate him for.
CUOMO: Remember him? I'm a businessman. I'm only here to make things happen.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I don't want to get involve with any of this political, boy is he learning the game fast that brother.
LEMON: Yes. Well.
CUOMO: And now, they have to be remembered for what they say and do right now. Because when this phase ends, they're going to try to play straight. You know, we care about this. We have to worry about fiscal this. We have to worry about responsibility and character.
LEMON: Nope.
CUOMO: Remember what they say and do now. And if you forget, don't worry, I'll be there.
LEMON: I was just going to say, never forget. As long as we're here, they're never, ever going to forget the trajesty (ph) that day portrayed on the American people. Thank you, brother.
CUOMO: Thank you. I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: You more. You know that.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
So here we go. Joe Biden is the president-elect of the United States. Let me say that again, Joe Biden is the president-elect of the United States. And he made that clear, today.
[22:05:00]
Despite President Donald J. Trump refusing to concede that he lost the election and he lost fair and square. And Biden brushed aside any claims to the contrary, as sound and fury signifying nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are beginning the transition. We're well underway, and the ability for the administration in any way by failure to recognize this, our win, does not change the dynamic at all in what we're able to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, Biden has more than 76 million popular votes, compared to Trump's vote tally of more than 71 million. And that is a margin that is certain to grow even wider. By CNN's counts so far Biden has 279 electoral votes to Trump's 214.
And Biden is on track to win 306 electoral votes, that is the same number Trump won in 2016, you can't make this stuff up. If you wrote this, as I always say, people would not believe it.
That's the same number Trump had in 2016 when he called his Electoral College's tally, a landslide. That's what he called his win against Hillary Clinton. A landslide. Biden, the soon-to-be 46th president, letting the emperor know he's got no clothes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Well, I just think it's an embarrassment, quite frankly. The only thing that, how can I say this tactfully? I think, it will not help the president's legacy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He did one. You've often seen me do that, how do I say this, I don't want to offend anyone? Because sometimes when things are so absurd, maybe there is no way of saying it without offending anyone.
Trump's refusal to concede is holding up transition funding that the Biden team is entitled to. But the new president-elect is unruffled by that. It's preventing him from receiving high-level intelligence information, at least for now.
Maybe the current president doesn't think that's not a big deal since he hasn't had a briefing on his schedule since, get this, October 2nd. That was 39 days ago. But Biden is plowing straight ahead with his transition anyway, with a message for the world's leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: First of all, I'm letting them know that America is back. We're going to be back in the game, it's not America alone. Number one. I've got had the opportunity to speak with the now six world leaders. The reception and welcome we've gotten around the world from our allies and our friends have been real. I have a number of other calls to return.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And Senator Kamala Harris, the vice president-elect, making it clear what she thinks about this ridiculous farce the Republicans are pushing, while trying to -- tying it to one of the top campaigns -- excuse me -- tying it to one of the top campaign issues before the Supreme Court today. Something Americans really actually care about, you know what that is? That is the Affordable Care Act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Joe Biden won the election decisively. With more votes that had ever been cast in American history. It amounts to 75 million voices and counting. Calling on the Supreme Court to see this case for what it is. A blatant attempt to overturn the will of the people. And the president-elect and I cannot let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, you heard this during the campaign, the President-elect Biden, ran on the promise to reach out his former Republicans on Capitol Hill, he took a lot of flak for that. A lot of people thought that he was naive, especially now we see most Republicans are too afraid of even a vanquished defeated President Trump and his poise and Twitter fingers, to even really admit reality.
Only four GOP senators, four of them have even dared to acknowledge the president's elect -- the president-elect's status. But Joe Biden is not taking that personally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I haven't had a chance to speak to Mitch, my expectation is that I will do that in the not too distant future. I think that the whole Republican Party has been put in a position with a few notable exceptions of being mildly intimidated by the sitting president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:58]
LEMON: There is one Republican who is not intimidated by the sitting president, by President Trump. Maybe because he actually is popular instead of routinely collecting unfavourability ratings. And that is Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHARLIE BAKER (R-MA): I'm dismayed here the baseless claims coming from the president and from his team, and from many other elected Republican officials in Washington. This latest move it to employ the Department of Justice and all of
this, is so wildly inappropriate. And stalling an orderly transition process, especially at a time like this is equally unacceptable.
I'm aware of no legitimate claims of wrongdoing anywhere near of the scale it would take to affect this outcome. And there is no credible third-party entity that has verified the president's claims in anyway. Continuing to make these claims erode trust in the system, when in fact the election system is working exactly as it was designed to do. What this president is doing at this point in time is not in the best interest of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Sanity. Logic. Reality. That's what Governor Baker is, that's what he's living in. You see Governor Baker can say that because he hasn't done what a lot of -- most of them have done. He hasn't demeaned himself at the feet of this president. He stands as his own man. Compared that to Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, the nations' chief diplomat, America's face to the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the State Department currently preparing to engage with the Biden transition team? And if not, at what point does it delay him for a smooth transition or pose a risk to national security?
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: If it was a joke, save it for the comedians. While but, you know, a second Trump administration is not a thing, because the American people rejected that. They said no to that, we don't want it. But they voted for the other Republicans. Interesting.
State Department officials telling CNN that they are shocked and disgusted at Pompeo's refusal to recognize Biden's victory. Of course, following Trump's lead, as if this is all a big joke. Not a joke. The American voters have spoken. Pompeo and Trump, and Trump's enablers inside the White House and on Capitol Hill need to get a grip.
It's like Johnny Matheson Denise Williams song, it's over. Yes, it's over. Time to move on. The next administration will be the Biden administration not a second term of Trump. Although it's funny what happens when the shoe is on the other foot, right? Case in point The Daily Show posting this comment from Florida Republican Senator Rick Scott about his election, or this election, I should say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, have you congratulated President-elect Biden yet? SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Well, first off, we need to finish other
votes, all the votes need to be counted, I mean, not votes but we need to have all the votes counted. So, I look forward to the finish -- to that being finished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the race was closer in 2016 and Republicans congratulated President Trump then.
SCOTT: Well, I can tell you that, you know, we still, there is still a lot of challenges out there still, so I think we need to get all the votes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is there any evidence of fraud that you've seen?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Come on, you all. You see -- you see what's happening, right? We've been dealing with this for four years, enough already. So, you heard what he said, I need all the votes to be counted, and you know, and then the reporter says, but it was closer. It was closer then than it is now. So you weren't asking for the votes to be counted again then? OK, so this is what Scott said, this is his reaction in 2018 when he defeated Senator Bill Nelson. Pay close attention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT: Why Bill Nelson needs to do now is what he would be asking me to do if I had -- if I had lost the election, is say look, you know, the election happened, let's go forward, but he's not. He's just a pure sore loser trying to steal an election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It's all on tape, do they forget that? Or maybe they just forget what they said or maybe if they were like the Massachusetts governor, they would have to remember or forget what they said. Because Governor Baker has stood firmly about being his own man.
[22:14:59]
So maybe if they really had principles and stood by them, they wouldn't have to remember, because then they would be consistent. Instead they have become hypocrites. A sore loser, trying to steal the election, that's what he said of Senator Bill Nelson.
There's only one person who fits that bill tonight and that is Donald J. Trump, the outgoing president. Maybe he's trying to buy time, maybe he is trying to grift off of the crisis he has created.
I want you to pay close attention to this, it's really, really important. Trump's former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci saying on this very program last night, that some of the money collected through Trump's election defense fund, here it is, can be used to pay down campaign debt. Is that what he wants his supporters to pay for, is that what you're
paying for, to pay down Trump's campaign debt? When you think you're paying for a recount effort, defense. Google the word grift. Look it up.
CNN's own reporting showing that some donations to the fund can be directed to a leadership PAC the president has established. What we do know tonight is that Trump has been holed up inside the White House, he is staying out of public -- the public eye, excuse me, while his enablers refuse to acknowledge Biden's victory.
Like I said, no intelligence briefings on his schedule for well over a month, no public events since last Thursday. Who's hiding in the basement now? Someone close to the president needs to tell him, to step out of that basement, step out there. Be a man. Prepare to step aside.
Transitions to new leaders are a big part of America's grand political tradition. Big part of it, it's part of who we are as Americans. Look, this was -- look at that handshake, this is outgoing President Barack Obama. He welcomed Present-elect Trump to the Oval Office. That was four years ago.
Vice President Biden welcomed his successor, Vice President-elect Mike Pence. They did all of that, remember? It was a birther, he wasn't born in this country, all kinds of things. President Obama welcomed them to the White House, and said your success is America's success.
But this president, President Trump may not be able to meet his replacement the way the others did. Man to man, face to face, but he is now a one term president. And that's one reality he's going to have to face. Maybe that's why you're a one-term president?
He is leading Republicans down a very dangerous path by refusing to concede the election to Joe Biden. But do we have to follow? A lot to discuss. Two former governors, Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat, and John Kasich, a Republican. I can't wait to talk to these guys, next.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The President-elect Joe Biden says his transition is well underway, even though President Trump is refusing to concede the election. Biden is meeting with his advisers tomorrow and expects to make key cabinet announcements in the coming days.
Joining me now, the former Democratic governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, and former Republican governor of Ohio, John Kasich. Come on down, gentlemen. Good to see you.
Let's see, I'm going to start with you --
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you.
LEMON: I'm going to start with you, Governor McAuliffe. President- elect Biden is calling Trump's actions an embarrassment. But we're dealing with a president who still has levers of power and who doesn't have a grip on reality. How do you view this potentially? It is a potentially very dangerous situation, am I wrong?
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, you're right. I mean, Don, he is undermining our democracy. People around the world are looking at the United States and Americans saying what's going on. I mean, they look up to the United States of America. He has no chance at winning. There is no massive fraud out there. We've got to get going with our government and we should have a peaceful transfer of power. That's how this nation has been founded.
Today is the 245th birthday of the United States Marine Corps, we have great institutions in this country and Donald Trump is undermining them. Joe Biden needs to get to work. He needs to get his folks specifically over at HHS to deal with a COVID crisis and how we deal with testing and distribution of the vaccines.
We need to prepare for a new government. Donald Trump is coming out, like he went in. It is a disaster. He had no transition when he came in office, and now he is trying to fool Joe Biden. So, let's get out. This is about America, it's bigger than Donald Trump. You are right, it's time for this nation to move forward. Big challenges, job creation, economic development, redoing education and dealing with a COVID crisis.
LEMON: The COVID, yes.
MCAULIFFE: And Joe Biden is ready to take that leadership.
LEMON: So listen, Governor Kasich, I want to play this, this is senator -- I want to hear what you have to say, but I want to play Senator Chris Coons and what he used to say about Republican colleagues what they are telling him. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): I mean, they call me to say, you know, congratulations, please convey my well wishes to the president-elect, but I can't say that publicly yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, what's -- really?
KASICH: I don't -- I don't know, Don. Maybe they're afraid of the very intense Trump voters if they were try to say, no, he didn't win, that they don't get the blow back from them. I just don't understand it.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But don't they understand the damage? Do you think they understand the damage they're doing by --
[22:24:59]
KASICH: Well --
LEMON: -- enabling this president. He lost. For the good of the country, it's time to move on.
KASICH: I made a -- I made a -- yes. Don, I made a note here that John Podesta, former chief of staff to Obama, Andy Card (ph), former chief of staff to George W. Bush, they made three points. They wrote something together.
One is this. Not having a good transition hinders economic recovery, slows down, as Terry just said, perhaps the distribution of a vaccine, and finally, it raises a lot of national security issues.
We got to move on. And this is just, it's hard to -- it's hard for me to believe this is happening, because look, if you look at these election results in these states, Pennsylvania, that's going to be somewhere between 50 and 100,000 victory. The same thing in Michigan. These re-counts and all these court challenges, they're not going to mount anything. If I thought that they would, as you know, I would tell you. I don't believe it.
LEMON: I know you would.
KASICH: We need to move on and get things going.
LEMON: Then why isn't he doing it, John?
KASICH: Just like Terry said.
LEMON: John, why is he doing it? Then what the -- what the heck, why is he doing this? And why is he dragging his supporters in it? Why is he sending out mailers to raise money that can be used for his campaign and for a PAC rather than going, you know, to a recount? And why is he doing this? Why is he dragging the country through this?
KASICH: I -- Don, I can't at this point --
(CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: Well, first of all let just me say.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Let me ask --
MCAULIFFE: Because he can't his --
LEMON: Let me ask John. And Terry, I'll get you in. John, why is he doing it?
MCAULIFFE: OK.
KASICH: I don't know why he's doing it, but what it does, what people should stay is I guess I now understand why John Kasich endorsed Joe Biden. And I can now understand back in 2010, or I'm sorry, 2016, why Kasich didn't go to the convention and endorsed Trump. Because I thought that it would lead to chaos and division and
blunders, and frankly it has.
LEMON: All right.
KASICH: And so, I can't tell you why he's doing it. But I'm very disappointed in my former colleagues for not calling this thing over and getting on with it.
LEMON: All right. Well, Terry --
(CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: They will. I just wish it would be sooner than later.
LEMON: Go on, Terry, because you seem like you know why he's doing it.
MCAULIFFE: Sure, I know why he's doing it. First of all, Donald Trump mentally cannot deal with the fact that he is a one-term president. He cannot face that reality that the American voters rejected him and threw him out. He's also trying to stay viable I think he's telling people inside he may want to run again in 2024 as a Democrat, but that would be the greatest news I've ever heard.
But the bigger issue for him is, Don, he cannot handle that he has lost. And he is not the greatest president, he is not the greatest president of the African-American community since Abraham Lincoln. It's all a charade. And it has all been crumbling down and he's sitting home alone, isolated. It's time for him to leave.
LEMON: I got to tell you, my Republican friends call me on the phone and they say hey, Don, I'm sorry the greatest president for African- Americans is no longer. And then they'll laugh. Because they know, they know it's a joke, right. We just sit and laugh and I go yes, yes, yes. And they actually tell me I'm so glad Joe Biden won. Right? So it's interesting.
KASICH: Hey, Don.
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
LEMON: Yes, go ahead.
KASICH: Don, think about this. Think about these Republicans they call Chris Coons and say congratulations, but don't tell anybody I said it. I don't understand it. Why are you in public office?
LEMON: Hey, John, but do you remember --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: You know, you report --
LEMON: John, do you remember during 2016 how often we'd hear that in the green room before we came back out of the commercial break? And then they wouldn't say it on live TV? KASICH: See, I think -- yes. I think if the Republican senators had
stood up to Trump in the beginning and said, you should not behave like this, they should not be what you're all about, it could've straightened Trump out, Terry. I think that could have happened. He could've been better. But they didn't.
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
KASICH: They were just kind of looking out for themselves. And as a result, he lost.
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: And he's, you know, there are not many one-term presidents in the modern history of this country.
LEMON: Hey, Terry.
KASICH: And they did him a disservice, and themselves, frankly.
LEMON: Terry, I got to go to the break, but I have to say --
(CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: But John --
LEMON: -- it's important --
(CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: But John, they were scared of Donald Trump primary.
LEMON: Yes. It's important though that Joe Biden --
KASICH: I know.
LEMON: -- has been there, Terry. Because this helps even if they don't want to turn over the money and the levers. Joe Biden has some experience about what is going to take, once he's actually is the occupant of the Oval Office.
KASICH: You know, Don, one last thing.
MCAULIFFE: Yes, he's prepared. He's ready to go.
LEMON: Terry, Terry.
KASICH: You know, there's an old saying.
LEMON: Terry. Terry. Terry.
KASICH: There's an old saying, Don, that says this.
MCAULIFFE: This is not.
KASICH: Say you get reelected, you inherit the earth, but at the same time you lose your soul.
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: And some of them have lost their soul.
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: God bless them, I hope tomorrow will be a better say for him.
LEMON: Yes. What good does it differ for a man who inherit the earth when he loses his soul? Go ahead, Terry, quickly. I got to get to the break, what did you want to say?
MCAULIFFE: Don, next time you're with Donald Trump ask if he's ever heard the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. I know he thought he was the greatest president for African-Americans, but I got to tell you, let me tell you.
Joe Biden put together the broadest coalition we've ever seen.
LEMON: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: The most votes of anyone, let's let him in office. Let's let him govern. We have to come together as a nation. We got to be unified. Joe Biden is going to do it. Donald Trump time to go back to Florida. Time to retire.
[22:30:05]
LEMON: The diversity on his COVID team is more diverse than anything I saw throughout the four years of Trump in the entire administration.
Thank you, guys. Always a pleasure.
MCAULIFFE: All right. Thank you, Don.
LEMON: John is Terry. Terry is now John. I don't know what's going on tonight. But I'm happy to have you guys on. Thank you.
Four senior officials fired or resigning from the Pentagon in just over 24 hours. What's President Trump up to and why? I'm going to ask a former Republican defense secretary, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, we have to tell you about a huge shake-up it's taking place at the Pentagon. On Monday, President Trump announcing on Twitter he was firing Defense Secretary Mark Esper. And he's naming Christopher Miller the director of the national counter -- counterterrorism center as new acting defense secretary. OK?
[22:35:03]
And then today, three top Pentagon officials resigning from their positions including the undersecretaries of defense for policy and intelligence. Their roles being filled by controversial figures and Trump loyalists. Retired General Anthony Tata will take over the Pentagon's top policy role.
Tata was previously nominated for the job but had his nomination withdrawn over bipartisan opposition. In part because he spread conspiracy theories.
Two other new appointees, Kash Patel, and Ezra Cohen-Watnick. While they have ties to GOP congressman and core -- and hard-core Trump loyalist David Nunes.
So, joining me now to discuss is a former -- Devin Nunes, excuse me, joining me now is former Defense Secretary William Cohen. A lot of names in there. But I got William Cohen right and that's important. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you joining us.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good to be with you.
LEMON: So, listen, what do you make of the shakeup at the Pentagon, why would a lame duck president get rid of so many people and install loyal -- loyalist at this stage?
COHEN: Well he has 71 days to go and he can do a lot of damage. But I think most of all what he is seeking to do is what he has done in virtually every other institution in our government. That is to discredit the intelligence community by saying he didn't believe the intelligence community on the activities of Putin and (Inaudible).
He has tried to certainly politicized the department. And that's what he is doing now. He's putting in yes people who will not, he believes will follow any order he gives including something that is evenly illegal.
And so, you have people who are resigning who understand that their duty is to carry out the wishes of the president and his orders. To the extent they believe it is legal and moral, and when they believe they can no longer carry out an order coming from the commander in chief, they have little choice but to resign, or to compromise their integrity. They decided to resign.
LEMON: Let me read this. This is a tweet by Lieutenant -- retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, and I quote here. It says, "In the last 24 hours, the secretary of defense, the undersecretary of defense for policy, and the undersecretary of defense for Intel have been sacked. Trump loyalists now sit in the one, three, and four slots at DOD. Kash Patel is DOD chief of staff. Why?"
I mean, that's what -- so the president is decapitating the civilian leadership of the Defense Department.
COHEN: Yes.
LEMON: What is, I mean, again, with 71 days what is going on here?
COHEN: Well, as I indicated he is trying to politicize the department, and he perhaps is banking on the outside chance so that he could possibly turn the election around, which I doubt. But nonetheless, he would have his people in mind. What we have to -- the American people have to be outraged, the people who voted for Joe Biden and congratulations to Joe Biden for the campaign he waged on the basis of truth and morality and ethics, and a strong national defense based upon the principle of the rule of law.
So, what President Trump has tried to do is to undermine that and to politicize it, having his secretary of defense and his chairman of joint chiefs walk over to the church for a photo op, that was really a bridge too far even for Secretary Esper. But what he's doing is I'm taking out all the people who refuse to abide by my orders, or show any hint of disrespect for what I'm seeking to do.
He's doing that in the intelligence community, he's doing it at DOD. He's doing it at state, he's doing it at the Postal Service, he's doing it with removing all of the inspector generals. So, we seeing -- we are witnessing the decimation of the Democratic institutions which the American people have come to expect, will be non-political in terms of our national security.
He is turning the national security into his personal view of what power really is. And he believes that he has an unrestraint, unconditional power and he is going to exercise it. And what he's doing he is undermining our role in the world. I've been talking to world leaders and they breathe a great sigh of relief when Joe Biden was elected.
LEMON: Well that leads me to that, is it going to work then? Can it work for him what he's doing now? Can it work for him to steal the election? Because I think you explained it, but my question I'm sure everyone else is, what does it matter if someone at the Defense Department? Or it would matter more if it was the Justice Department, I think in most people's minds, but can this work, secretary?
COHEN: Yes, of course, there are a lot of things that could go wrong. Normally we feel that during a transition period that's when we're most vulnerable. Because we don't have people in play and in charge at that time. So those who bear us ill-will will try to take advantage of that. Be it North Korea, be it Iran, be it Russia, or be it any other country.
So, at this particular point we become more vulnerable. Ordinarily, and this is why character really matters.
[22:40:01]
Ordinarily, a president who just been defeated would hand over the reigns and try to make the transition smooth. He doesn't have that in mind at all. And what he wants to do is have this raw exercise of power and to show that he is still in charge.
LEMON: OK.
COHEN: Well, for the moment. Joe Biden is going to come back and come back aggressively, and he's got a team that I know about that is really top-notch, top-flight and will follow orders that are legal and moral. And this is what's most important. LEMON: Let me get this in before we ran out of time, because this is the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, refusing today to acknowledge Joe Biden's victory. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POMPEO: There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration. Right? We're ready. The world is watching what's taking place here. We are going to count all the votes, when the process is complete, they'll be elector selected. There's a process. The Constitution lays it out pretty clearly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What's your reaction?
COHEN: Well, my reaction is the way in which they are conducting themselves is more akin to a dictatorship in a democracy. And I think that the, again, the State Department has been politicized just like the DOD has tried to be politicized and what we've done to undermine the intelligence community and other agencies. I think it's consistent with what's been taking place for four years now.
LEMON: Best of luck to you. Thank you so much to you. Please say hello to your wife.
COHEN: We'll do. Thank you, Don.
LEMON: My pleasure.
Ballots still being counted in some key swing states, and we have a new update in one of the states that we have yet to call. We got the latest numbers, that's next.
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, we've got some breaking news for you. We're getting more election results out of Arizona tonight. President Trump picking up some votes but President-elect Biden is still leading the state.
Our senior political analyst Mark Preston is here to break down the new numbers for us. Mark, just in a little while ago, the new ballots were reported in Maricopa County. What did you find?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. So, let's take a look at them right here. These new ballots where it shows that they're inching towards a resolution in Arizona. Right there, you know, Joe Biden received 2,213,000 votes in Maricopa County, while Donald Trump received 2,982 votes in Maricopa County.
But look at that, look at the margin. The margin is still about 2.5 percent there. My math is a little bit off. But Joe Biden still has a very good margin in Maricopa County. But look at the state overall. let's just take a look over there. Even though Donald Trump picked up 700 votes, Joe Biden has a 12,000-plus vote lead at this point, Don.
So, 90 percent of the vote is in in Arizona, it would be very difficult, very difficult I think for Donald Trump to make up that ground. We'll wait till the final votes come, we'll get the resolution out there.
LEMON: OK, can you tell us about Georgia, what do you know?
PRESTON Well, listen, in Georgia, I mean, specifically, we have new votes coming in Georgia. Right now, Joe Biden leads Georgia 49.5 percent. While Donald Trump is at 49.2 percent. This is going to end up going to a recount. We have to wait for these votes to be certified, they're still counting some of the votes right there. But Joe Biden still has a lead and it seems to be increasing ever so slightly in Georgia, Don.
LEMON: OK. So, Mark, Joe Biden won the election, he is the president- elect of the United States, but President Trump and other Republicans as you know they continue to file lawsuits mostly in Pennsylvania. If the president won in court, would these lawsuits make a difference on the electoral map?
PRESTON No. I mean, absolutely not. Look it right there. Joe Biden is at 279 electoral votes. In order for Donald Trump to win, right, if everything were to be overturned, Pennsylvania first of all would have to be overturned and 20 electoral votes will be taken away from Joe Biden, that would get you down to 259.
And then Donald Trump would have to win in North Carolina, which is likely he will, he would also have to win in Georgia and have to win in Arizona. And we both see Joe Biden is leading in both those states pretty comfortably with little vote out.
LEMON: Yes. So, Mark, and I've lauded Democrats. Republican Thom Tillis won re-election in the North Carolina Senate race.
PRESTON: Right.
LEMON: Did the stakes just get higher in the two Georgia Senate races that are going to a runoff?
PRESTON: Yes, no question they will. You know, Don, I was talking to a Democratic strategist who told me that this week was going to be the stress test on donors. Meaning there were all these outside groups that will go to their donors and say hey, listen, can you -- can you pony up some more money?
I said, look, in the end, how much are we going to see spent on these two Senate races which would really control if Democrats are able to win both of them, they will control the U.S. Senate. And we will see an entirely different policy plan being put forth or successfully put forth by Joe Biden.
But get this number, Don, as we leave it on this, $200 million, $100 million on each side, can you imagine that from now into January 5th in Georgia being spent? LEMON: My goodness, a lot of dough. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it,
Mark.
PRESTON: Thank you, sir.
LEMON: Hypocrisy on another level, you've got to see what Fox News had to say when they thought Democrats didn't concede fast enough in 2018. We'll play that back for you. That's next.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Take this. President Trump refusing to accept the results of the election claiming fraud despite no evidence. None. He's using the same tactics that Fox News personalities accused Democrats of employing in 2018. Our friends at The Daily Show putting the hypocrisy on full display.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, the Democrats always called it unfair when they lose. So that's first and foremost, what we need to understand. This is becoming a pattern with the Democratic Party.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's continuing, you know, refusal to accept the legitimacy of elections when you just don't like the outcome. We keep hearing all about attacks on democracy, the delegitimization of our elections. Not accepting the results just because you don't like it without any evidence to back up your claims of voter suppression or voter fraud even. That causes real problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The entire integrity of our democracy rests on elections that are meaningful and accepted. And you can't, after the ninth inning is played the game is over and one team wins, say, I've unilaterally decided we're going to go into extra innings, and we're counting the runs differently.
MIKE HUCKABEE, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS: One of the big things Democrats are going to have to decide is will they become a party that will accept the results of an election. Well, they got to let it go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the new mantra of the Democrats, it seems. That when they lose an election, it's they cheated. They -- they, you know, they stole it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those who refuse to concede, those people are simply un-American, in my opinion, because we are supposed to honor our elections.
[22:54:58]
SCOTT: Look, you know, the election happened, let's go forward, but he is not. He is just a pure sore loser trying to steal an election.
LISA BOOTHE, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS: The Democrats are the sore loser and refuse to accept the results of the election.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: Amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That one blond is in there a lot, she is a sore loser stealing, I'm not sure her name is, but yes, it is amazing. Who is a sore loser now? Look no further in the White House. Because he hasn't been seen there since last week, though. We did see him golfing, or the president's Twitter feed which is full of lies about the election that he lost. An embarrassment, that's what Joe Biden says about Trump's refusal to concede the election. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:57]
LEMON: President-elect Biden moving straight ahead with his transition even though our current president still won't concede. But Trump isn't the only one living in an alternate universe. Many Republicans are refusing to publicly acknowledge.
