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Don Lemon Tonight

President-Elect Biden: Transition Is Well Underway; Top Republicans Enable Trump's Baseless Claims As He Refuses To Concede; "Washington Post:" Democrats On House Committee Say Postal Worker Recants Claim Of Conspiracy; Nevada Republicans Listed Some Voters As Fraudulent; Right-Wing Media Encouraging Trump's Election Denialism; Coronavirus Hospitalizations In The U.S. Reach An All-Time High With More Than 61,000; Supreme Court Signals Obamacare May Survive Challenge. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 10, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: But Trump isn't the only one living in an alternate universe. Many Republicans are refusing to publicly acknowledge Biden won. The White House budget office is telling agencies to prepare budget proposals as if nothing is changing.

And even the nation's top diplomat. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, is talking about a second term for Trump. They can gaslight all they want, but the bottom line is, Joe Biden won the election and he will be the 46th president of the United States on January 20th.

I want to bring in now CNN White House Correspondent, John Hardwood and Mark McKinnon. Mark McKinnon, is the former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain and the executive producer of The Circus. Gentlemen, good evening. Good to see you.

John, President Trump refusing to concede. Republicans pushing his lies. His administration acting like they're preparing for a second term. Crazy, but how long can they keep playing, you know, and keeping this up?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A little bit longer, but I'm not sure if it's multiple weeks after this one. Obviously you've got a deadline moving with the Electoral College being due to meet in mid-December.

Hard to see that any of these states where Joe Biden has amass a lead that is beyond the reasonable hope of being overturn in a recount. There's no evidence of any widespread fraud. Most of these lawsuits are going to collapse. I think the states are going to begin to certify their results and the whole thing will come tumbling down.

But for the moment, Republicans are scared of Trump, and more importantly they're scared of his voters. His base is their base, but they like him a lot better than they like themselves. And so they've got to pay homage, and especially if you're in Georgia where they're got two Senate races that are going to determine whether Democrats or Republicans hold the Senate. They need to keep their base riled up for that, and that's the reason

why two Senators have called for the resignation of the Republican Secretary of State simply for the fact that he's honestly doing his job, and Republican members of Congress are chiming in too.

LEMON: Mark, help us out here. Listen, you know this stuff. What is going on here? Why is this happening? What is the president up to, and why are they enabling him?

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, THE CIRCUS ON SHOWTIME CO HOST: Well, the president wants to say that it was not a legitimate election, that it was stolen from him so that he can say that he didn't lose. It's all about winning for Donald Trump. And he can't psychologically handle a loss plus as I predicted in a column for Vanity Fair a month ago, I think he's going to start running immediately for reelection in 2024. He's just in the psyche.

He's not going to let go of that base of voters to somebody else. He's not going to think anybody else is worthy, whether it's his children or Tom Cotton or Ted Cruz or Nikki Haley or anybody else. So, I think, this is all about an election strategy to say, they stole it from us and we're going take to come back. And we are going to take it back.

Now, this is -- he was acting like a tyrant of a third world country. And boy, this is a time when I sure miss somebody like John McCain. I'd love to see John McCain right now putting him through an acid bath.

LEMON: This is what Joe Biden had to say about Trump refusing to concede the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), 2020 PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I just think it's an embarrassment, quite frankly. I know from my discussions with foreign leaders thus far that they are hopeful that the United States' Democratic institutions are viewed once again as being strong and enduring. And -- but I think at the end of the day, you know, it's all going to come to fruition on January 20th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen, it is embarrassing to watch. I don't know if the president if he can see himself at this moment. It is really embarrassing what he's doing, and also the Republican leaders. You heard him there, Mark, multiple world leaders have called to congratulate Biden, but only four Republican Senators will even acknowledge that he is the President-Elect. Senator Coons said that they're telling him that they can't speak publicly. So what's wrong with them? What?

MCKINNON: Well, almost all of them are either running for re-election or planning to run for president. So it's all about politics, it's all about Trump's base who are incredibly loyal and will salute any marching order that he gives. And right now the marching order is that this election was stolen. So to do anything contrary to that is going to go against those

voters. Now, you would think that principles would be stronger than their politics at a moment like this. Because we look -- this is humiliating for us in the world audience. I mean, to see other nations doing what America, you know, would often accuse other countries of doing, a small third-world countries run by dictator and now to be doing the same thing is that humiliating experience for the country.

[23:05:05]

And I like what Bob Bower, the Biden's lawyer said, you know, this is theater and it's just going play to a smaller and smaller audience over the course of the next several days and weeks as John said.

LEMON: Do you really believe that?

MCKINNON: I do.

HARWOOD: Yes.

LEMON: Go ahead, John.

HARWOOD: I do, Don, and I do think we need to underscore the point that Mark made earlier and you and I have talked about it before. Donald Trump is not a psychologically healthy person. He does not have a normal adult control over his emotions and his impulses.

It feels devastating to him to be defeated, and so as Mark indicated, he's got to blow up, kick up a bunch of dust to sort of cover the embarrassment of the fact that he has been beaten. Whether or not he runs in 2024, he is going to be compelled and is compelled to do that in any case.

LEMON: What about, John, are his supporters -- do they have any concern about the possibility that he may be taking or raising the money that they're sending him, thinking that it's for recounting and defense, and he can use it to pay off other debts, other campaign debts and/or it can go towards a Trump Pac? Do they have any concern about that? Are they even aware?

HARWOOD: Well, I don't think so, Don. I mean, look, they didn't seem to have much concern that he was putting their lives in danger by having these rallies where people got sick. Herman Cain, Republican presidential candidate who Mark and I both followed, covered in 2012, died after going to one of Trump's rallies in Tulsa. Don't know if he caught it here, but the point is, Donald Trump has been heedless about the virus. He's gotten it. He's family has gotten it. He's Chief of Staff has gotten it. Members of his cabinet had gotten it.

If the management of that pandemic has been a disaster and it's characterized by Trump's carelessness about other people, and Donald Trump is not motivated to help or take care of other people. He's motivated to protect and advance himself.

And so the fact that he has this base that, as he said, he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and they wouldn't turn against him means he's not going to be constrained by the idea of, oh, maybe they think I'm making money off them. He is making money off of them and he'll continue to do so.

LEMON: Mark, I have to run though. Do they care that it's a grift? Possible, I should say, allegedly or possibly a grift?

MCKINNON: No, no, no, I mean, no, I don't think they know it. They're unlikely to even hear about it and if they do, they'll dismiss it. I think the encouraging thing here, Don and John, is that despite all this fog machine from the president and his enablers and Fox News, that 80 percent of a country believed that Joe Biden's the legitimate president. So that includes a lot of Republicans. That numbers is only going to grow overnight after this.

HARWOOD: 60 percent.

LEMON: Yes. So --

MCKINNON: 60. I saw 80.

HARWOOD: No, no, 80 overall. 60 percent of Republicans.

MCKINNON: Oh, of Republicans.

LEMON: You were right, 60 percent of Republicans.

MCKINNON: Good -- great point, John. More majority of Republicans.

LEMON: I'm glad what you said what you said, Mark, because I tried to convey that last night. It is serious what's happening, but there's only so much that he can do. But we'll see. You never know, burning the house down as his on his way out. Thank you, gentlemen, I appreciate it.

I want to get to Evan Osnos now. He is a staff writer for the New Yorker and the author the book Joe Biden, the like, the run and what matters now. Evan, good to see you. Thank you for joining.

EVAN OSNOS, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: My pleasure, thanks, Don,

LEMON: So, Joe Biden was completely calm today in the face of all that insanity coming from Trump and his allies, even in the face of being denied his victory he is un-rattled. Sticking to his message. How?

OSNOS: You know, I keep thinking of a line -- we've heard a bit of mentioned of John McCain tonight. John McCain used to say that character is destiny, right. Well, if there's one thing that Joe Biden has been accumulating over the course of his career it is character.

It's an understanding of the highs and lows of life. I mean, this is a man, after all, who has lost two presidential races of his own. And after he lost the first one, he was asked year's later, you know, how did that happen? How did you lose that race and he said to be honest with you, I was too arrogant. I wasn't ready to be president.

Second time he ran, 2008, he still thought at the end of it, I think I could have been president. I think I could had won that race. He goes into the vice presidency with Barack Obama and after a few months of watching Barack Obama close, watching his discipline. Watching the way President Obama prepared for things, measured his syllables.

He said to somebody in the White House, Vice President Biden did at the time, he said, you know what? The best man won, and I'm honored to be able to serve him. So, in a way what we're seeing tonight is the natural result of a person who has been steeled by experiences. He's not going to be put off by the -- let's call it what it is, the delusions of Donald Trump.

[23:10:05]

LEMON: Two things. And I want Senator Booker to tell this story, and he's been wanting to tell it on air about, you know, during the contentious campaign when this whole thing about race and bussing and all of that happened on the debate stage and Senator Booker says that Joe Biden was really, really, really concerned and hurt by it and then called him, Biden calling Booker.

And they had the most transparent and candid conversation that -- again, I want the Senator to tell the story, but he says, it made him change his opinion, not about Joe Biden, because he always thought he was a standup guy, but just on what he thought about race and how he can change, right? That someone can evolve.

And then the other thing -- and you can speak to both of them. When I saw -- I had never seen anyone -- maybe I've just missed it. When they gave their acceptance speech, run out on a stage like, I am ready. He's running into the office of the presidency and ready to get to work. Go on.

OSNOS: Yes. You know, it's interesting, I spoke to Senator Booker this summer about exactly that moment.

LEMON: So, you know, OK. Good.

OSNOS: That was a tense moment in this campaign. You know what was great was fascinating was, look, that was a tough moment. Senator Booker thought about things that Joe Biden said and at the time he said, I don't like the way he's talking about race. And he though, you know, that could had been erupt during their relationship.

As Senator Booker said to me, look, he said the hardest part about this was I heard him say things that this is coming from a man I respect. I'm close to Joe Biden. He picks up the phone, and it's Vice President Biden on the line, and they had a conversation that was as Senator Booker put it to me, he said, look, this is a man, who -- let's call it what it is, he's in hit eighth decade and he is changing. He is saying he's learning things about our sensibilities today that he may not even have understood a few years ago.

And Booker said something fascinating to me, the Senator said, you know, look, I've been in politics a long time, I know when somebody's putting me over, trying to put on an act lay on a routine. That's not what this is. This is somebody who reckoned with himself and thinks about his own highs and lows in the moments in which he's learned.

And that for me was the big surprise, Don, honestly in researching this life in this kind of detail was seeing all the points along the way when the vice president-elect Biden would say to me and about that thing that I did, 25 years ago, or five years ago, I was wrong. And I've learned about how to do it better, now.

LEMON: Yes. And by the way, Senator Booker said it was after his appearance on this show, after they were on the debate stage. So I'm so glad that the president elect is watching, and of course, you know, that he just moved enough to call Senator Booker. But listen, we talked about this a little bit last night, I want you to expand it here and expanding it more. You said that Trump's rigged election fantasy is the new birtherism. Explain that, Evan.

OSNOS: You know what you see going on right now, Don, is the creation of a mythology. It's the creation of a mantra. By calling this a stolen election, it is creating an infrastructure, in which Trump and his most zealous adherence, can live.

It's a delusion, it's not true. There is no basis in fact. There is no evidence to support it. And let's be clear, it is rooted in racist language. When they talk about Philadelphia, and problems happening in Philadelphia. What they're saying is that these votes can't be trusted because they come from areas with large numbers of minority voters.

LEMON: Democrats (inaudible) instead of democratically, (inaudible) incorrect, but go on.

(CROSSTALK)

OSNOS: And it is like anything, it is a liturgy. Its own incantation. And it is creating a system in which they can attempt, I don't think it's going to work, but they are attempting to delegitimize the Biden/Harris administration before it's even begun. You know the irony is, we spent 2016 in the months afterwards thinking about the role that Russians had played active measures in the disinformation of American politics. We're seeing it now, coming from our own system.

And that is something that we are going to have to be fighting hard against. And part of the ways you fight against it, is by telling the details, the facts of our system. And reminding ourselves, you know, to go back to that earlier point, character is destiny. And that applies not just to individuals, but also to our country.

And this is really a choice right now about what kind of political character we want to have, is it going to be based in fact. Based in decency, based in respecting the same kind of electoral counts that we have had for 200 plus years? Or is it going to be in this kind of psycho drama around protecting the president's ego, and you know, massaging the inevitable for him? That is not the country that we are. It's not certainly the one we want to become.

LEMON: Listen, people can change, and they do. But they have to want to, and they have to be rooted in reality, right. And not in this conspiracy theories and lies and all of that. Evan, I really enjoyed having you on the program, please come back.

OSNOS: My pleasure, thanks Don. Happy to be here.

LEMON: Thank you so much. The GOP keeps spreading completely unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud, but the thing is, these votes are real and so are the people who cast them.

[23:15:08]

We track two of them down, and we have their story, next. And, just a reminder for everyone out there, this was how President Trump was treated four years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. President- Elect that we now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed, because if you succeed, then the country succeeds. Please.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, thank you very much President Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: New tonight the Washington Post reporting Democrats on the House oversight committee say that a postal worker in Pennsylvania has recanted allegations he made over fraud. After being questioned by the postal service Inspector General. Top Republican including Senator Lindsey Graham had seized on this fabricated claim as evidence of widespread fraud in the crucial swing state that handed President- Elect Biden his Electoral College victory.

And yet another incident where Republican claims a fraud on holding up to scrutiny. Same in Nevada where GOP officials alleged thousands of people voted illegally. CNN's Dan Simon has the story now.

[22:20:23]

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When the election results first came in and the race grew tight in Nevada, Trump officials made wild accusations that thousands of people who had moved out of the state had fraudulently cast their votes, potentially swinging the race to Biden.

ADAM LAXALT, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: We are also confident that there are thousands of people whose votes have been counted that have moved out of Clark County during the pandemic.

SIMON: The alleged crew from Nevada Republicans, a change of address data base that publicly lists zip codes of where 3,000 or so voters currently and previously lived. For instance both cast record 337 shows a voter who previously live in Henderson, Nevada, but is now in Davis, California. By GOP logic that person would be ineligible to vote. Problem is this woman says she's that voter 337.

AMY ROSE, NEVADA VOTER: When I first saw that we were on the list, frankly I was very shocked.

SIMON: And she's far from a fraudulent voter.

If the Trump campaign officials are listening, anything you want to say to them?

ROSE: I think that they should understand that the actions that they're taking are harmful to America. This is harmful to our Democratic process. I think that these types of accusations made without any basis in fact are really just shocking and appalling.

SIMON: Amy Rose is a military spouse. Her husband is active duty in the air force stationed at Travis air force base in California. But under federal and state laws they're still permanent Nevada residents making them eligible to vote there in the 2020 election. She says she easily found herself on the list.

ROSE: I just searched for where we live now and I found our city. And it matches our zip code, it match our four code which is the four code indicates a very small like one block or so radius, and that match that with where we move from in Nevada. So, put two and two together and realize that it was myself and my husband.

SIMON: Even a cursory glance at the list you could see hundreds of other entries using APO meaning army post office, AFB for air force base, or Joe Biden for joint base.

STEPHANIE, NEVADA VOTER: My home record is in Nevada. I still own a house in Nevada, my license plates are Nevada. I have property tax.

SIMON: Stephanie, who does not want her last name used, says she is also on the list. Number 464. She and her husband who have spent 12 years in the military live in the Washington, D.C. area. He is a major and pilot in the air force. Although Las Vegas is their permanent home.

STEPHANIE: My husband fights for his country. He has offered to pay the ultimate sacrifice and I stand alongside him and now my own vote is called into question. Without any sort of legitimacy.

SIMON: Anything you want to say to these Nevada GOP officials who put these list together?

STEPHANIE: Because we've got to do better. You've got to do better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: So, Don, here's what people really need to understand about this, there appears to be hundreds of zip codes on that list that correlates to military bases around the country. Other people could be students who are in college out of state but would still be eligible to vote in Nevada. Now, we did get a statement from the Trump campaign. I want to read it to you in part. It says we have referred a list of people who voted in Nevada's

election, they have moved out of the state to Department of Justice and local election authorities. We have no way to confirm whether a small number of these voters fall under the exemption, which is why we referred it to the authorities for further investigation.

Don, we should also point out that right now Biden's lead in Nevada stands at approximately 37,000 votes. So this list of 3,000 people would be a moot point anyway. But the fact that you have hundreds of military families on there just -- really an example of the utter recklessness of the allegations, Don.

LEMON: It certainly is. Dan Simon, thank you. I appreciate it.

Joining me now is CNN's senior legal analyst Laura Coates and political commentator, Ana Navarro. So good to see, boy what a bizarre time we're living in. Good to see you. Ana, it's outrageous. Imagine if that was your vote that they were claiming was fraudulent.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, if it was my vote that they were claiming was fraudulent, I'd be screaming bloody murder up and down this country and at least two are not three languages. But look, this is embarrassing. It's embarrassing for the country and it's terribly embarrassing for the Republican Party. Nobody in that Party but for some very notable exceptions dare tell the emperor he has no clothes on. He has no case.

[23:25:04]

We're not talking here about fraud or a recount in 2000. We're talking about four states, not one. We're not talking about hundreds of votes, we're talking about thousands, tens of thousands in some cases of votes. They are grasping at straws, they are throwing out some of the most ridiculous things you ever saw.

I mean, you literally think it some sort of Saturday Night Live skit. The sharply conspiracy in Arizona, the, you know, poll worker, the postal worker who recanted his entire story tonight in Pennsylvania. They don't know what to make up. And the reason Republicans are going along with this is because they dare not antagonized the Trump supporters. The Trump voters.

Because either they want to run for president, or they don't want to deflate those voters before the Georgia runoffs, or because they just, you know, they don't dare to. I think they've gotten so accustomed for four years to be cowards and have no spines that they can't find them. They don't know where the hell they put them.

LEMON: Laura, let's talk about something that Ana, just mentioned about these new developments from the Washington Post tonight. Democrats on the House oversight committee saying that that a supposed whistleblower in the postal service is backtracking from claims that he made, that a supervisor had ordered the tampering of mail-in ballots. The story doesn't hold water at all.

LAURA COATES, CNN INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ANALYST: It doesn't hold water. It holds even less water when you're talking about the idea that he reportedly recanting his stories, saying, yes that happened, no it actually did not happened. If you were in a courtroom and you had a witness who had signed an affidavit or was going to testify, and they gave some testimony and then they came back and said actually, that wasn't the truth. How much credibility would you assign?

None, if any small iota. And what you see here is a pattern. As Ana alluded to, is the idea this campaign, and this litigation seem to be asking the question, your honor, what if I told you I had evidence of voter fraud and intimidation? The judge would say, well what is the evidence? Do you have that evidence? No. I'm just asking what if I had that, what would you do about this?

This idea of speculation, this idea of these hypotheticals that are posing, this is not what litigation is supposed to be like. (Inaudible) democracies is about. You're supposed to have certainty and confident in the integrity of due process, and just trying to have ball to (inaudible) without actually having substance of evidence is not the way you actually persuade anyone in the court of public opinion, let alone a court room.

And so far, judges have been saying continuously, do you have evidence to support the claims you're saying. If you do not have evidence, then please leave my courtroom and please leave the hypotheticals for a law school lecture hall, not an actual counting.

And finally, you cannot seem to try to re-piece together the smashed up watermelon. You actually have to have the evidence in real-time. You cannot go back and say, is there a way I could've done this and you could've planned for me to done that instead? If you didn't gather the evidence, if there was not to gather, well then you have no case.

LEMON: That's got to be the end of it. Thank you, sorry our time is short. We appreciate both of you joining us. Obamacare under review at the Supreme Court today, but a surprising statement from one Trump appointed justice could signal it is safe as the U.S. surpasses 239,000 deaths from coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: Don't give up. There's a real thing called COVID-19 fatigue that's understandable. We understand how difficult that is, but hang in there a bit longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So I want you to take a look at this headline in The New York Times tonight. Election officials nationwide find no fraud. But as President Trump keeps pushing his claims of widespread fraud, he is getting a lot of support in the right-wing media, in that echo chamber. CNN's Brian Stelter has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOU DOBBS, FOX BUSINESS NEWS HOST: Many are trying to steal this election from President Trump

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the 2020 form of birtherism. It is election denialism, delegitimizing a Democratic leader, and it is happening everywhere, from Fox News to Facebook, from talk radio to Twitter.

On Tuesday, eight of the 10 top-performing link posts on U.S. Facebook pages were from President Trump, his evangelist supporter Franklin Graham, and right-wing commentator Dan Bongino.

DAN BONGINO, RIGHT-WING COMMENTATOR: The election oddities keep adding up.

STELTER (voice-over): Unproven claims and innuendo about mass voter fraud are fueling right-wing talkers like Bongino.

BONGINO: There are way too many questions here.

STELTER (voice-over): And he is telling his fans not to give up.

BONGINO: I'm not going anywhere, you're not going anywhere.

STELTER (voice-over): Conspiracy theories about mass voter fraud are spreading wildly on social media. This genie left the bottle days ago.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Trump still has a path to victory.

STELTER (voice-over): Trump's friends on Fox are telling millions of viewers that Democrats are cheaters, that big cities are voter fraud factories, and the Trump's lawsuits are serious.

DOBBS: You have courts defying appellate courts within the state without any consequence. It's outrageous.

STELTER (voice-over): And this content is racking up big audiences on Facebook and on Twitter. Some of it is hard to fact check because it's short on detail, heavy on innuendo. But these toxic claims are reaching Trump, misinforming Trump and his fan base, and garnering re- tweets from the president. Trump dead-enders are digging in.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, TALK SHOW HOST AND CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I've not conceded anything.

STELTER: Stoking grievances and swearing that Trump could still be a winner.

[23:35:00]

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: All of the weirdness went in one direction, so I think I approve that this election --

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: -- is fraudulent.

(LAUGHTER)

STELTER: Gutfeld will say he was just joking around, but the five stages of grief are on full display here. The first stages are denial and anger. That's very apparent. There are some signs of bargaining and depression, but so far, Don, no sign of the final stage. That would be acceptance, and I'm not seeing any acceptance from pro-Trump media, at least not yet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

More people hospitalized with coronavirus in the U.S. than ever before and Dr. Fauci is warning that things will get worse in the coming months.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, grim new numbers tonight to report to you, sadly. More people currently hospitalized in the United States with COVID-19 than ever before. That's according to The COVID Tracking Project. Over 61,000. That as Pfizer says early analysis shows its COVID-19 vaccine is 90 percent effective.

Let's discuss now. CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner joins us. Doctor, that is good news. But I want to talk about these hospitalization numbers first. Really alarming.

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION PROGRAM AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Yeah.

LEMON: Higher than ever before. Can this be explained any other way than a lot more people are just getting really sick?

REINER: A lot of people getting sick, weather getting colder, people moving indoors, kids back in school, some people getting tired of doing the right thing of being safe, and all that adds up to cases. And cases add up to hospitalizations. Couple of weeks later, hospitalizations lead to deaths. That's what we are seeing now. Yeah, it's just math and it's really sad math.

LEMON: Did we -- did we get a false sense of security over the summer because of outdoor events and the humidity and now, you know, people got a little lackadaisical and didn't -- weren't doing what they were supposed to?

REINER: Yeah. And a lot of people believe that we were turning the corner because they were told that, and they didn't wear masks because they were led to believe that, you know, it was sort of a personal choice, not a medical imperative. And, yeah, all of that leads to where we are now.

But the good news is that it's -- you know, this is not something that we can't turn around. We can turn it around, and we can turn it around by social distancing and masking up and looking after each other. We can do this. We can put a halt to this. We just have to decide to do it.

LEMON: Yeah. I wonder if people feel with the incoming administration that that it is going to get better and I wonder if you feel, as well, because they are saying, wear a mask.

There's new guidance also, I should mention, from the CDC that says wearing a mask can help protect you, not just those around you from coronavirus transmission.

For a long time now, mask wearing has been promoted as a way to protect others from infections. So, explain that. What do you think of that?

REINER: I always thought that was a mistake. Many of us thought that was a mistake. Look, it is clear that when you're facing a respiratory pathogen, wearing a mask can protect you. We wear them in hospitals. We have worn them in hospitals for years when we are facing people with influenza, tuberculosis.

So it's clear that masks protect people and it never really been clear to me why we didn't tell the public that. You know, we appeal to people sense of altruism when we really should have been appealing to -- equally to their sense of self-preservation. Some people's altruism works well. Some people, you know, need to maybe get something a little bit more personal.

You know, I have a colleague who I work closely in the hospital in relatively close quarters. Last week, this person got sick with COVID. And we all got tested. There are a lot of people on our team. And none of us have gotten COVID because we all wear masks in the hospital.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: Our colleague, who thankfully is doing well, wears a mask in the hospital and all of our teammates wear masks. So, my mask protects you and it also protects me.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

REINER: And that's what this country should be doing.

LEMON: I had a similar conversation with a doctor that I have to go for -- just a routine procedure. She said, I worked during the height of COVID around patients, taking care of COVID patients, I wore a mask and I wore a shield and I washed my hands and I never got it.

REINER: Yeah. LEMON: And do it's simple as that, I think, in many cases.

But listen, there's a lot we don't know. We got the new guidance from the CDC about wearing a mask, protecting you and others. So, as we go along, we learn new things.

Let's talk about Dr. Fauci now. He spoke with our --

REINER: Yeah.

LEMON: -- our Jake Tapper about when the coronavirus vaccine could be widely available. Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We're talking probably by April, the end of April, I would think. Again, these are just estimates. I believe that within the next -- within the first quarter, one of the things that we would concerned about, Jake, and I discussed this with you on a prior interview, was that we have a lot of people in this country who may not want to get vaccinated right away.

[23:45:05]

FAUCI: That's why we were talking that it might take well into the second and third quarter to finally get people to be convinced to be get vaccinated.

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LEMON: So he says a vaccine will likely be available to all by the end of April. Does that timeline make sense to you, doctor?

REINER: It does. Pfizer and then presumably Moderna if their data also looks good, and other manufacturers will have to produce large quantities of vaccine.

Some of the preparation for this pandemic vaccine has included sort of in parallel manufacturing of these vaccines before the data was even available, which is why a company like Pfizer can have 40 to 50 million doses available immediately rather than ramping up after approval. So that's very smart. That's where federal funds and assurances of purchases really have paid off.

So, companies have to build, stockpile the vaccine. The cold chain infrastructure is very complex, but Pfizer has really developed a very well thought out plan to get this vaccine stored at minus 94 degrees around the country in a stable way, in a way that can be shipped for -- and maintain its viability for 10 days.

So we'll start seeing this. We will vaccinate probably nursing home patients, nursing home staff, probably hospital staff at the outset. Mind you, 40 million doses sound like a lot, but it's a two-dose vaccine, so that's about 20 million people. Overtime, then you starts increasing this to other people at risk. Senior citizens, people with other kinds of immunologic diseases that put them at risk, and then out to the general public. Hopefully, it will be something that you can get at CVS anywhere by spring time. It's very exciting, really thrilling, actually.

LEMON: Let's hope so. Let's hope it --

REINER: Yeah.

LEMON: -- we get it then or if not sooner. Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: Obamacare is back at the Supreme Court. But this time, several justices are signaling they're OK with keeping most of the law intact. Here's what we heard from the chief justice, John Roberts today.

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JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): I think it's hard for you to argue that Congress intended the entire act to fall if the mandate were struck down when the same Congress that lowered the penalty to zero did not even try to repeal the rest of the act. I think, frankly, that they wanted the court to do that, but that's not our job.

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LEMON: So joining me now on the phone is California's attorney general, Xavier Becerra. California is one of the states defending Obamacare in court. Mr. Attorney General, thank you so much for joining us. Are you encouraged by what you heard? It seems like the chief justice is prepared to once again save Obamacare. This time, he might have the help of Trump appointee Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

XAVIER BECERRA, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL (via telephone): Don, I think we are guardedly optimistic. The questions and the comments we heard from the justices are encouraging. They touched many of the same themes that we had in our brief. And so it's good. But again, they are very skilled at giving you a sense of one thing and then doing another. We faced that with the DACA case where no one expected us to win, and we did.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. While I have you -- I have to ask you about this. Has anyone from Governor Gavin Newsom's office approached you about replacing Senator Kamala Harris after she is sworn in as vice president?

BECERRA (via telephone): Well, if we win this thing in court on Affordable Care Act, then I think we may get more calls as Mike Mongan, my solicitor general, make it stolen from me. But Governor Newsom is making some tough choices in a lot of different things. His choice in the Senate, we will find out soon. But, no, I've not been approached directly.

LEMON: If he did call you and ask you to serve in the Senate, what would you say?

BECERRA (via telephone): Well, that would be tough to turn down, any time you get a call like that. And if you want to serve your government, it's a hard place to not go to. There are not many more places where you can do more to help your government than serving in the U.S. Senate.

LEMON: Well, we actually made some news. Listen --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I thank you for that because people usually try to avoid that question by saying I'm very happy in the job that I'm in and they won't even consider --

BECERRA (via telephone): Well, I am.

LEMON: Yeah.

BECERRA (via telephone): I am.

LEMON: I understand. I understand that you are.

BECERRA (via telephone): But I have to be truthful.

LEMON: Yeah, you got to be truthful. You said that it would be an honor, hard to turn down. That is -- I got to think that everyone can agree with that. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. We appreciate you joining us this evening. You take care.

BECERRA (via telephone): OK, Don. Thanks.

LEMON: And thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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[23:55:00]

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[23:59:50]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. The president and his enablers are escalating their cries of election fraud when the only fraud continues to be the one they appeared to be perpetrating themselves instead of accepting the reality that they lost this election, plain and simple.

President Trump lost the Electoral College count and he lost the popular vote by more than 4.5 million votes, and those votes are still being counted.