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Don Lemon Tonight
Chris Krebs Fired Via Tweet; Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) Said He's Misunderstood; Citizens In Detroit Outrage Over GOP Move; DHS Number Two Official Resigned; Rep. Cedric Richmond (D-LA) Is Interviewed About Biden's Cabinet Members. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 17, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:55:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: In these turbulent times, there is really only one man's voice you need to hear, and it comes next, "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon, truth-speaker.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I thought you were going to say that while holding up a mirror because I know you.
CUOMO: No, no, no, no.
LEMON: Are you trying to get me in trouble? Because every night, you get a little earlier and earlier, and you know I am always running up those stairs.
CUOMO: As I say to you all the time, I don't want to owe you anything, and I don't want one second of time--
LEMON: Better now.
CUOMO: --to have been taken from your precious show.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And we had a lot of news fall on our watch tonight.
LEMON: Oh my Gosh, the Michigan thing. I mean, can we - can we talk about that?
CUOMO: "Wow! Michigan just refused to certify the election results! Having courage is a beautiful thing. The USA stands proud!"
LEMON: And then they--
CUOMO: They did have courage. LEMON: They went back and turned it back over.
CUOMO: They wound up changing the vote.
LEMON: But I don't know if you've got a chance to watch, all of the Michiganders there, who, and the Detroiters, who were on a Zoom meeting, a Zoom Council meeting, or Election Board meeting, and they were letting them have it one after another after another after another. It was - it was live for a while.
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LEMON (on camera): And the outrage that the two people who serve -- the two Republicans who refuse to certify the election they got an earful. And I'm just wondering in the fallout from the local people when they report back to us either later tonight or tomorrow, how much of an influence that those -- those citizens, it was just regular every day citizens, how much of an influence that they have on those two electors there. I just wonder.
CUOMO (on camera): Look, I love that all politics is local. And I think people should and must put pressure on the people that they put in power.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: If they do the job the right way, or get them the hell out.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But it's so scary to me, we have half of our political culture in Washington sitting by and saying nothing. What if it hadn't been for those Michiganders and Detroiters who decided to yell at these people are? Nothing is happening.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: No. None of the big Republicans would say anything about it, and there was no proof offered, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Imagine that.
LEMON: It is all local. But imagine those local folks having the influence. They have, they could have a very big influence on a national election.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: On who was president of the United States. I think that, you know, I heard some folks on your air talking about how history is going to look back on this. And I think a lot of people are going to be embarrassed overtime, when they look back and say how did I do that how did I fall for that, what happened to me, what was I thinking in that time? You may want to win, you might want to, you know, whatever it is,
whatever they call it, liberal tears, you may want all of that. But your grandchildren your kids will look back and say what grandpa did, what did it do, what did dad do, but did mom do in this moment? And realize that you are on the wrong side of history. And that you possibly were teaching them the wrong thing.
CUOMO: This is an uncharacteristically optimistic, D. Lemon.
LEMON: What?
CUOMO: Because I see these people as having no shame in their game.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: None.
LEMON: Well, you'd be surprised what happens to people as they get older, and sadly, when they were on their death beds. And some of that, speaking of death beds, I hate -- I know it sounds like a weird transition it's true. We got to talk about that because a lot of folks were dealing with that now as well. We're in a very precarious time, Chris, very scary time.
CUOMO: You see the food lines?
LEMON: I see them.
CUOMO: Around this country? We hadn't seen it since the Depression.
LEMON: Where we live, we hear the stories about the food banks. We have a friend who owns a food bank there, and you know --
CUOMO: He operates the food bank. Part of the Hamptons.
LEMON: I know, part of the Hamptons. And they are heart of the Hamptons. And a lot of people need them right now. So, if you are with a local food bank you should be donating to them. You should be trying to help them.
CUOMO: They run out of everything.
LEMON: They run out of food, everything every day. So, I got to run so I can talk about all of these things and try to get us, hopefully get us on track. And call it out, like you just did. I'm going to continue on with what you did. Thanks for showing the way in the hour before, Chris Cuomo. Hey, I love you.
CUOMO: Make your witness. I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I beat you. Hey, listen.
CUOMO: It's nice to hear.
LEMON: There was someone on Twitter who said it, I forget hallways, I'm so glad that Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo every night they say, tell each other they love each other, maybe that will break some of the stereotype about, you know, roles for men, and what is straight and what is gay, and all of those things.
Hey, look, you are a heterosexual, you got a family, a wife and the family, I'm a gay man with a fiance and family of dogs, whatever, and we're just friends. And we can love each other, it's not weird, it's normal. That's actually --
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CUOMO: We're not just friends, you're a family to me.
LEMON: that's what family is.
CUOMO: I don't love all my friends.
LEMON: You don't, you just hang out with them because they can give you things because they are nice things. That's our relationship. I'll see you later. Have a good night. Be safe.
CUOMO: You too. Make your witness.
LEMON: Yes.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
We have a lot to talk about. We are in a precarious time right now. We are -- our democracy is being tested. The republic is being tested right now. Imagine if electors and a number of different cities, or states, had decided to do what they did in Michigan tonight. What do we do? What would happen? It's unprecedented.
And then we have someone in the White House who is firing people. We have someone in the White House who has been downplaying the virus, not really paying attention to it, who wants all the credit for the good things, but the bad things he has nothing to do it.
And then we have people trying to overturn the election. It is all happening right now, people. You should be scared and you should be at attention, at set, ready set because you may have to go quickly.
Breaking news, a president who cannot accept the fact that he lost the election is determined to hang on. Democracy be damp. He is out for payback, that's what's happening. He's in the White House and he's out for payback, he's angry and he's upset that he lost. He's a sore loser, as I have been saying. He is the loser in this competition or the election for presidency. He is the loser.
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This is what it has come to tonight, the Trump administration official in charge of voting security, Chris Krebs, fired for defending our election while the current president is trying to overturn it. Rejected the president's bogus claims of widespread voter fraud, and guess what? Got him fired. He was fired not just for doing his job but for defending our free and
fair election. The most sacred right that we have, I believe, under the Constitution. That's the most sacred right that we have.
Chris Krebs tweeting tonight, honored to serve. We did it right, defend today, secure tomorrow. That seems pretty patriotic, doesn't it? Yes, that who -- that's who the current President of the United States fired, tonight.
And then, as I said we've got more breaking news to tell you about. After outrage when Republicans try to temporarily block certification of Detroit's election results, of Detroit's election results, the Wayne County board of canvassers has reversed their decision at the last minute.
Just moments ago, reversed the decision voted to certify before results, including the city of Detroit, apparently, ending a last gasp attempt, attempt that would've disenfranchised the voters of Detroit.
Now I just want you to look at what happened in between when the two Republicans on the panel said they had blocked certification, right. So, I wonder if this had any influence. But I want you to look at this, and this is between when they blocked it, and then when they reversed their decision. Here it is.
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UNKNOWN: I was at TCF on election night, I was there as we saw hundreds of Detroiters doing their job, who literally making the wheels of democracy function, counting their votes.
Michiganders across the state don't take kindly to folks who throw up barriers to justice who try and remove people's voices.
UNKNOWN: To me it seems that you pre-plan and executed a choice to summarily invalidate the votes of 800,000 plus people, most of whom are black and brown. And I feel that so deeply that I can barely speak with the rage and sadness that that fills with me.
UNKNOWN: How dare you? How dare you try to silence the voice of the citizens? You will not get away with this. And understand and know that every decision that you make that does not have moral decency, you will have to stand and give an account for that.
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LEMON (on screen): Listen, don't underestimate your power, people, you have power. Don't get it twisted, don't just sit back and, say my gosh, I can't believe this is happening. Do what you did, millions and millions and millions of you did on election day. Exercise your power. If you think something is wrong.
Those people were outraged, they had every right to be outraged. They defended their votes. They defended their neighbors. They defended democracy. And tonight, at least in Wayne County, it jigs up. The people's votes will count the way they should count all over this damn country.
Stand up people for your rights. Congratulations to you folks in Wayne County for standing up for your rights. This was nothing than a blatant attempt to steal votes, to steal democracy, and to do it in the most racist way.
Do you think it was a coincidence that the Republicans on the panel wanted to take the votes in Wayne County away in Detroit? A city that is 80 percent black? They dared and then to try it and the people said, don't you dare, you're not going to do it.
This current president is willing to do anything, anything at all his acolytes and his apologists as well, anything at all to propose the inevitable -- to postpone, excuse me, the inevitable.
The day he leaves the White House and Joe Biden becomes president, it is going to happen, but he's trying to do everything to stop it, everything to block it, everything to undermine the inevitable -- the inevitably new administration that is coming in.
This is a crisis of leadership. And the president is still blocking the president-elect from being fully briefed on all challenges facing the country hat he's going to leave in just 64 days, forcing Biden to move ahead, just today, with the briefing of his own.
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: To state the obvious, there's no presidential responsibility more important than protecting the American people.
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LEMON (on camera): It should be obvious, but that doesn't seem to be getting through to this president. Hunker down, he's behind closed doors at the White House, sure watching TV. He hasn't had a classified intelligence briefing in more than a month while he is denying briefings to Biden.
No public events again today for this president, now answering questions from reporters, nothing, tweeting wrongly.
Other breaking news now. The president has canceled his Thanksgiving trip to Mar-a-Lago. One official telling CNN, quote, "it feels like a bunker mentality." Instead of stepping up and doing his job, this president is spending hours watching TV and tweeting. That's not how even he had pictured losing, is it?
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If I lose to him, I don't know what I'm going to do, I will never speak to you again, you'll never see me again. Can you imagine if I lose? My whole life, what am I going to do? I'm
not going to feel so good. Maybe I'll have to leave the country. I don't know.
I'll just drive the hell out of here.
CROWD: No!
TRUMP: But just get the hell out of this. I had such a good life. My life was great.
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LEMON (on camera): So much I could say to that. And you know I could. But this is such a serious moment I'm going to reserve that for another time. Will you grant me that? Because you don't want to be here. Ba-bye. Yes, I said it. Ba-bye.
And as the current President of the United States is nursing his grievances and refusing to acknowledge the reality that Joe Biden is the president-elect, he's got his number one enabler, Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham is working overtime. The senator who is absolutely no, he has zero election oversight responsibility, none.
Acknowledging today that you reached out to officials in Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia. Why? As we say in the south, because I grew up in Louisiana, it is not, none of your business. You need to mind your own business. Not at all, coincidentally, all states that Joe Biden won while the president is trying to discredit the results of this election.
I want you to just listen, this is an exchange with CNN's Manu Raju as the senator dances around his conversation with Georgia secretary of state, a conversation that Brad Raffensperger says gave him the impression the senator wanted him to look for ways to toss out mail-in ballots. Here it is.
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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He thinks it's an implicit threat for him to say.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I'll categorically check that. That wasn't my intent, and that wasn't the purpose of the conversation. You throw out malice. We're talking about an election we don't even had yet, which is the Senate races. That was my focus, is how do you verify the signatures. We got a new Senate race coming up. Is there anything we can do to make it better?
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LEMON (on camera): I got a bridge to sell you. Lindsey, Lindsey, Lindsey. So, Lindsey Graham, no election oversight responsibility reaching out to Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia. All states that Joe Biden won. Did he reach out to the states where Trump won? Interesting.
A Georgia election official says that the state is on track to finish its recount tomorrow and affirm Biden's win, which will be another loss for those who are trying to trample the will of the people and denied Joe Biden his victory over the impeached one-term president who is presiding over a coronavirus pandemic that he has done nothing about.
Let me see say, the impeached one-term president presiding over a coronavirus pandemic that he has done nothing about. And in many ways, he's actually made it worse. Hunker down in the basement? Maybe not, maybe in a bunker. Or maybe in the residence. Watching TV, enraged on Twitter.
And you know what they say? There is a tweet for everything, especially if you are Lindsey Graham doing a convenient about-face from what you publicly said just a few years ago.
This is Lindsey Graham. This is 2016, OK? And I quote here.
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"Like most Americans, I have confidence in our democracy and election system. During this debate, Mr. Trump is doing the party and the country a great disservice by continuing to suggest the outcome of this election is out of his hands and rigged against him. If he loses, it will not be because the system is rigged, but because he failed as a candidate."
Thank you, Lindsey Graham. Prescient. Could we put that up again please? I just want to read it because it says everything about today. This was Lindsey Graham back in 2016. OK? It sounds like he could've written it today.
He says, "Like most Americans, I have confidence in our democracy and election system. During this debate, Mr. Trump is doing the party and the country a great disservice by continuing to suggest the outcome of this election is out of his hands and rigged against him. If he loses, it will not be because the system is rigged, but because he failed as a candidate."
Maybe he should've gotten people to believe in mail-in voting, absentee voting, all kinds of things. Lindsey Graham is like, you know, the ghost of Christmas past, or future, whichever one. You know, like scrooge sitting around and all of a sudden, he sees the past and the future and they all lined up.
Lindsey Graham just came back from 2016 and told you what was happening right in the moment. So, good luck with that, Lindsey Graham. I hope you're still in good favor with the president after that tweet.
Kaitlan Collins, Alex Marquardt both here. Kaitlan, every night you have to follow me after I go off on all this crazy stuff. So, thank you for being so professional. But it is just, I cannot believe the hypocrisy and it is -- jarring and flooring. Good evening to both of you by the way. The president firing the
director of the agency that says that this election was the most secure in American history. First off, tell me about that.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This is not shocking because even this official, Chris Krebs, expected to be fired, Don. But of course, the idea that the president is firing someone for simply telling the truth about what happened in this election and disputing the president's lies about it, should still stunned people, I think.
And that is what Chris Krebs is in charge of. Someone who we should note worked in the George W. Bush administration, left to be an executive of Microsoft, then came back of course. And tonight, he has been fired by President Trump, mainly and the president himself tied it directly to this.
Because he and other officials issued a statement last week saying that the 2020 election was one of the most secure elections in U.S. history. And saying that what the president has been alleging about voting systems, changing people's votes from Donald Trump to Joe Biden, isn't true. He flatly denies that.
So, it was the president's own administration rejecting the claims that he has repeated day in and day out in the two weeks since the election. And so, he had expected to be fired last week, we were told by sources after he had issued that statement.
And tonight, the president followed through. And it was basically the president firing someone in his administration simply because they said something that the president did not like which of course is about his new thing, which is alleging that this is a fraudulent election. Though of course, he has had no evidence to back that up.
LEMON: Alex, I want to bring you in. Your very fine reporting I want to be talk about because you've been doing it for the past week on Krebs, past few days, I should say, on Krebs. What was his thinking over the president's false claims of election fraud?
ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan is absolutely right, Don, that this was stunning but not surprising. I've actually been covering him for quite some time now since before the 2018 election.
And what you can say more than anything about Chris Krebs is that he is a public servant who cares very deeply about American's ability to vote. That is his number one priority and that, he has now been fired because he has dare to say that this election, as you both mentioned was the most secure in election history, in U.S. history.
Before in the run up to the election, he had been gently pushing back against the president's claim that mail-in voting will lead to the most fraudulent election in our lifetimes. But in the day since, he has pushback more aggressively, indirectly I should say. Not exactly calling out the president but certainly rebuking, rejecting these conspiracy theories, these lies that have been pushed by the president and by his supporters.
I want to read you a little bit more from that statement that Kaitlan mentioned that was put out by this cyber arm of DHS, as well as we should say, other federal, state and private election officials.
They wrote, there is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, change votes or was in any way compromised.
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Now if you've been following the president's tweets over the last few days, that's exactly what he's been saying. That votes were fraudulent, that votes were changed. He called out one voting company in particular called Dominion, saying that their votes changed from Biden to Trump.
He has also -- we've also seen allies of his pushing this crazy conspiracy theory, there was a CIA supercomputer that changed votes from Trump to Biden. And Krebs called that nonsense and a hoax.
So, shortly after Krebs was fired, of course by tweet tonight rather suddenly. And we understand, according to our colleague Jake Tapper that Krebs didn't know he was fired until he actually saw the tweet. He did respond on his personal Twitter account. And I want to read that to you.
He wrote, that he was honored to serve, we did it right, defend today, secure tomorrow, protect 2020.
Don, one more thing that Krebs often said was that he wanted to make sure that Americans decide American elections. They did that, they chose Joe Biden and for keeping this election safe and for daring to speak up and say that all that stuff was nonsense, he got fired, Don.
LEMON: Yes. Might be the best thing for him. Not for us, but for him. Alex, thank you. Kaitlan, thank you. I really appreciate it.
Mr. President, you are, you're not thinking straight. Someone needs to sit down and have a come to Jesus with you. Your thinking is off. There's something going on. Revenge, sour grapes, whatever it is, it's not going to work. It just, it makes you look bad.
You're going to go down in history as the childish president who tried to refuse -- who refused to leave the office, who tried to burn the house down on the way out. The people's house, by the way. The ones -- the house that slaves built.
So, for the sake of my ancestors and all of the people who -- the ancestors of the people who are watching and who are out in America, who helped to build that house, don't burn it down. And I know I mean that, figuratively. It's a figurative speech. Don't do it.
Don't divide the country any further. We don't need to be divided anymore. We need to somehow come together as much as we can, and you are not helping with that. So, if you don't want to help the country, do what you said in those soundbites that I showed. Get in your car, drive, go, move. Whatever you do. But get out of the way of progress.
You're regressing. You're bringing the country back. You're holding us, you're keeping us from moving forward from evolving into a more perfect union.
Back after the break.
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LEMON (on camera): So, we're back and we're back with our breaking news. A bipartisan panel in Michigan's largest county unanimously certified its presidential results tonight. A stunning reversal coming hours just after Republicans had temporarily block certifications based on dubious claims of voting irregularities in Detroit.
The President-elect, Joe Biden, won Michigan by more than 148,000 votes. The decision to certify the results coming after citizens at the Wayne County board of canvassers meeting tonight slammed Republicans on the board, saying their initial decision to block the results was racist. And demanding that the voices of the people be heard. Look.
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UNKNOWN: We will be working in the courts and in the streets to make sure that this ingesting is overturned. The people's voices heard. And that these voices are counted. What's happening today is an absolute travesty against democracy.
UNKNOWN: History will not look kindly upon what it is that you are doing. I think that is incredibly important. That's been emphasize the number of times today.
UNKNOWN: If you believe in a God, just know that He is not pleased and you will have to pay for this unjust act.
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LEMON (on camera): So glad that those folks spoke out, made their voices heard.
I want to bring in now seen CNN's Pamela Brown. Pamela, I know you believe in democracy as we all do and the people should be heard and they were tonight. Tell us, how did this all go down, Pamela?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There was so much drama tonight there, Don, in Wayne County Michigan. Just for perspective, Wayne County is the largest county in Michigan. It's the home to Detroit, the Democratic stronghold.
And tonight, at first this bipartisan board, it was blocked by the two Republicans. There were two Democrats, two Republicans. The two Republicans in an unprecedented move blocked the certification of the votes there in Detroit. As you pointed out, Joe Biden won Michigan by almost 150,000 votes.
So, when that happened, there was immediate outrage from those on the Zoom call. And really beyond. I was hearing from election experts that said, this is outrageous.
One, David Becker, an election expert told me this is a tantrum. Ultimately, he believed that it would be sorted out, and it was, but only after hours of the citizens there just showing outrage that these two Republican members of the board there were blocking the certification of the votes.
Now they claimed it was because there were irregularities. That there was an imbalance in a couple of the precincts where the signatures on the pull book didn't match up with the number of votes that were tabulated.
But it's important to note, Wayne County has had a history of that issue and it was only by a few votes that were off in these precincts when it was imbalance. And in August, they had the same situation and the votes were certified back in August.
But now these Republican board members cited that as the reason they were blocking this. And then, in this stunning reversal, Don, after the outrage from citizens and you play them right there -- they left the room, they came back and it was certified.
[22:30:02]
The votes were certified. Just a stunning chain of events there tonight.
LEMON: Pamela, thank you for guiding us through this and helping our viewers to understand. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
BROWN: Yes.
LEMON: I want to bring in now Michigan's Lieutenant Governor, Garland -- Garlin Gilchrist. Lieutenant governor, thank you. We really appreciate you joining us.
Listen, I think that people should know, there are irregularities, right, in every single election. There are irregularities that happen in workplaces and spaces every single day. That is why you look at it and you try to correct it. But still, even with all of that there was no need not to certify initially the results of the election.
LT. GOV. GARLIN GILCHRIST (D-MI): Well, Don, first off all, thank you for having me back on the show.
And the truth is that Joe Biden won the State of Michigan by a margin that is 14 times larger than what Donald Trump did. But what these partisan actors, these people who are following the will and the space created by the president who has been lying about this election for months then start now, they were working to try to strip owners of their, your voice and their power. But I am so thankful that the people of Wayne County, the people of Detroit, the city that I was born in, that I live in, that I am speaking with you from right now, stepped up and made their voices heard, and rejected this.
I mean, the truth is, the Republicans are showing themselves to not you can't trust Republicans with democracy, but you can trust the people with democracy and that's what happened, and that's why they reverse course.
LEMON: I mean, the -- I don't know if you got to see, or if you were there or where you were in the process, but I was sitting in my office this evening and watching all of these people, I mean, just outrage. One person after the next, after the next blasting the two Republican members.
Were you surprised that they stood up that way?
GILCHRIST: Not at all. Look, you know, I, before I was a lieutenant governor, I used to be a community organizer, and we always said that the people united will never be defeated. And I just thought people were at least stepping up and saying that we voted, we spoke, and our truth will always be heard and will always be felt.
And so, I'm proud of people who raised their voices. And people should always take the opportunity to stand up for democracy, because that is what this is about. The Democratic process, the people who voted by mail, even though the president said it wasn't safe to do so. The people who stood in line and during a pandemic, with a mask on because it was that important for them to cast their ballot.
LEMON: There was --
(CROSSTALK)
GILCHRIST: And they were so angry when they were taken.
LEMON: Yes. Let me ask you and I do have to run here. What I understand is that it's a city near Detroit, that is 85 percent white -- I forget the name.
GILCHRIST: Macedonia.
LEMON: Yes. Eighty-five percent white had more voter irregularities than Wayne County but yet they had no issue with, with them initially with that city.
GILCHRIST: Yes. One of the Republican canvassers literally said that they were comfortable certifying every place except Detroit. It's part of the scheme that Republicans --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Racism?
GILCHRIST: Yes, there is racist scheme frankly. Cities like Detroit, and Philadelphia, and Atlanta, and Milwaukee where there are lots and lots of black voters and they were trying to disenfranchise people. And that is wrong, it is unacceptable and it did not work in Michigan and shouldn't work in any place in the country.
LEMON: Lieutenant Governor Gilchrist, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Be well, and be safe, please.
GILCHRIST: Thank you for having me.
LEMON: Thank you.
More breaking news tonight. The president firing the country's top official responsible for securing the election. The former Director of National Intelligence is James Clapper. I can't wait to speak to him. We got to get a break in first though.
[22:35:00]
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LEMON: As promised, a lot of breaking news tonight. One story is President Trump firing Chris Krebs, the DHS official who had repeatedly shut down the baseless conspiracy theories Trump has been pushing, claiming voter fraud.
Let's discuss now. CNN's security analyst, James Clapper, he is a former Director of National Intelligence. Good evening, sir.
So, Chris Krebs fired for shooting down conspiracy theories, for daring to tell the truth. There is no voter fraud and the president's claims -- no widespread voter fraud, and the president's claims are false. Give me your reaction, please.
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I'm sorry, Don, I didn't hear you, what was the question?
LEMON: Just give me your reaction of the president's claims of widespread voter fraud.
CLAPPER: Well, you know, I had this vision of the president sitting in the White House soaking, watching the two-ball day and tweeting. And, you know, he's sort of gotten, really gotten into his own world of illusion.
LEMON: Yes.
CLAPPER: Which is kind of scary, really, when you think about it. He's still a president, he still has all the responsibilities and burdens that go with that, principally, with safety and security in this country. And it doesn't seem like he's being paying a lot of attention to that. He's certainly put some of the fight on the pandemic.
And as of Chris Krebs, he's a hero. And I think he and the men and women in his agency along with the FBI and an agency I'm pretty familiar, the national Security Agency did a lot to secure this election. And I can attest with dramatic improvement over the situation in 2016.
LEMON: Director, our time is short because we have so much breaking news. I wanted to get you on this, and I want to thank you. Sorry that we have to cut it short. I appreciate it. Have a good evening, OK?
CLAPPER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. We got a lot more breaking news out of Michigan tonight because what Republicans tried to do their even legal. Make sure you stay with us. We'll be right back.
[22:40:00]
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LEMON: So, we have more breaking news to tell you about as I said in the second before with Director Clapper. I had to cut it short because I ant to get to some breaking news and read up on it.
So, this is the latest. Remember we told you about Chris Krebs being fired, right? He was a director of Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security or what is called CISA. Now, we're being told that the CISA deputy director, Matt Travis, who is the number two official at that agency resigning in the wake of President Trump firing the Director Chris Krebs.
That source of the matter says -- close to the matter says, he resigned at the White House made it clear that he would not take the helm at CISA. Brandon Wales, who is executive director or the number three official expected to serve as the acting director.
So, I want to get now to John Avlon. He is CNN's senior political analyst, and also senior legal analyst Laura Coates. Good evening to both of you. John, what is going on here? Is this a, what is this, a move, a coup that's happening in front of our eyes? Like I don't even know the terminology to explain this?
[22:44:55]
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST & ANCHOR: It's a purge of people who are doing their jobs. You know, Senator Angus King said that the -- the surest way to get fired in this administration is to do your job.
And Krebs did it with integrity, he stood up to the president, he spoke to facts, and telling the truth is a firing offense for Donald Trump right now. As he is on this mud purge of people he perceives as disloyal no matter how good they are at their job.
LEMON: So, Laura, help me understand this, I was trying to, you know, I was trying to figure out a way to tell the viewer tonight -- you know, because I hear people saying, well is the president's prerogative, he can fire.
But think about the timing, why is he doing it now? It's not liked the guy, you know, ran off with some office furniture or did something that was so egregious that needed to be firing. He simply looked at the election at the results, he said it was a free and fair election, put out a statement. And now he is being fired. And now the number two is leaving as well. Please, what's happening here?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What you're saying is akin to a form of a Tuesday night massacre essentially. We're looking at a situation where because someone refuses to go along with not the party line, but the president's line of a fair elect -- of an unfair election is actually saying an election actually worked as it was supposed to.
There were no outstanding threats for the American electorate to be concerned of. And that is what causes concern and allowed him to be fired.
Remember, he is gone to great lengths in recent days prior to being fired to say you should treat those that are unverified or sensationalize claims with skepticism. That statement in and of itself is common self-derived, Don.
The idea that you would actually look it doesn't have any evidentiary support -- everyone should be skeptical. So, his statements are frankly benign. And they are -- instead of actually helping him to add his credibility to the president's eyes. It was undermining that fatally. And allowing him to be fired by tweet it's preposterous.
LEMON: Will, first, Laura I want to ask you about the law. And then John, I want to ask you about the Constitution. Are there safeguards in the law to protect Americans against this? Or whatever -- whatever the president says.
COATES: Well, political --
LEMON: Go on. Sorry.
COATES: Political appointees, of course, serve at the pleasure of the presidents. So, the safeguards in place they are not the same for everyone else if he were to say a career attorney, a career member of the federal government or otherwise.
But the idea of the safeguards here, the safeguards that are in placed are the very things that were touted by Mr. Krebs prior to being fired that there was actual monitoring. They were ways in which and there were operations that were in place to prevent fraud, to prevent widespread fraud. Those were in place. Those protocols were actually followed.
And so, the safeguards that were there actually did him in, in the end. That's really shocking for democracy.
LEMON: You loud noise you heard was me dropping my pen. But go on, I'm so flabbergasted by that.
COATES: I thought I dropped the mic.
LEMON: No, that was --
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COATES: It wasn't the mic, it your pen? All right.
LEMON: That was my pen like almost falling off the desk because your words were so solid, you're dropping the mic.
John, Constitution --
COATES: OK. OK.
LEMON: -- any safeguards? Like can the -- can someone give the president like, you know, an intervention, like what?
AVLON: No, this is the underlying problem. We've got a lot of democratic norms that have been respected by people who understand and care about our democratic traditions. This is why the founders were so concerned about the character of the person and the presidency and they set up the system of checks and balances.
But when Republicans in the Senate roll over for this president are afraid to even just say face the fact you lost the election. It leads to this moral erosion where all of a sudden, he starts firing people who were in charge of national security for personal peak where all of a sudden because they're refusing to lie, consistent with him.
The reason he fired Krebs is because the argument they're advancing in court right now is about election fraud. And here you have the guy in charge who was saying there was not.
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LEMON: And Krebs is saying -- yes.
AVLON: So, this is a sickness in our society. This is hyper partisanship run amok and we're reaping what we sow.
LEMON: Yes, and conspiracy theories.
AVLON: Big time.
LEMON: And wrong thinking. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
So, we're going to talk about all the turmoil in the White House. We're also going to talk about the president- elect and how he is moving forward. He is announcing that his top advisers about -- he's making announcements about his top advisers. I'm going to speak to one of them. That's Congressman Cedric Richmond, he's here. That didn't get my lips to work. He's here right after the break. Cedric, I'll take a break. I'll talk to you right after this.
[22:50:00]
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LEMON: So, with all the turmoil in the White House we have a new president-elect, he is building his team. And joining me now is Congressman Cedric Richmond, he is a member of the Biden transition team and soon to be the senior adviser to the president and director of White House Office of Public Engagement.
So, you're still a congressman, right? You haven't quite finished.
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): No, Don, I'm still a congressman.
LEMON: OK.
RICHMOND: You can't get rid of me that quickly.
LEMON: Well, you know, you did it yourself. Thank you so much. Listen, and congratulations for all the hard work.
And you know, every night we try to report here on the show what the incoming team is doing and what's happening. But there's just so much turmoil that undermines democracy. I've got to ask you, what does -- what do you think the team thinks of what happened with Chris Krebs today?
RICHMOND: It's dangerous. The entire transition. Trump's whole behavior right now should frighten the American public. And so when you look at all of the things he's doing -- especially with Krebs -- and look I'm on the homeland security. CISA falls under us. And Krebs was --
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LEMON: Krebs and Travis by the way, was second. Yes, sorry.
RICHMOND: Right. But Krebs was an honest broker and a straight shooter. And so, the simple fact that he said our elections are something we can believe in and there was no fraud or abuse or any cheating.
The president didn't like his answer, so he got rid of him. And the American people at some point -- Republicans, no matter where you are -- at some point stand up against just flat outright lies that erode our confidence in our great democracy.
[22:55:00]
LEMON: Well, speaking of that, what about the reversal that happened in Michigan? I mean, first, they refused in Wayne County, they refused to certify and then all of a sudden there was outrage from the public and disenfranchising voters of color there. And then they decided, OK, we're going to do it. Two people who had a hell of a lot of power there.
RICHMOND: Well, the good thing is that people rose up and they spoke out. And they saw something wrong, and they fixed it. And so, those two people who had an enormous amount of power, but not an enormous amount of courage to stand up to the president, they were going to block the certification.
And the fortunate thing is the people of the Detroit, just like they did show up and voting for Joe Biden, made sure that their votes counted. And that was important and that was a victory tonight.
LEMON: Let's talk about the Biden administration. His -- Biden's campaign pledged an administration that looks like America. Tell us about your new job. What other key staff announcements that we might see soon?
RICHMOND: Well, today he rolled out a number of people and all the people who were on the campaign I know very well who work very hard and who care about this country. And they respect and share the same feelings that the vice president had. That we are going to build back better, we're going to make sure we bring everybody else along.
We're going to break down systematic racism in this country. And we're going to make sure that we're the country that we want to be.
So, whether it's Mike Donilon, (Inaudible), Annie (Ph) -- it was just a whole, it was just a great group of people he rolled out today. But more importantly, we need to make sure that the transition starts in a real manner. National security, we should be getting those intelligence briefings daily.
On homeland security, we know that the 9/11 report said one of the weaknesses of the country is that we didn't have a full transition in terms of national security. And especially with COVID and Warp Speed, we should be getting briefed on that. And the vice president said it very clearly. That people are going to die because of Donald Trump's actions.
And I am calling up on all of the Republicans in Congress and in the Senate to call upon this president to share Warp Speed and to engage in a full transition with the next President of the United States, Joe Biden.
LEMON: Maybe they should take a page from those people in Wayne County tonight and do what they did. Thank, you, Congressman, I appreciate it.
RICHMOND: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: And congratulations. Yes, we appreciate it.
More on our breaking news tonight right after this. Stay with us.
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