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Don Lemon Tonight
U.S. COVID Cases Hit the Highest Number in One Day; President Trump Met with State Legislators; State Officials Follow Rule of Law; White House Claims Trump Not Being Treated Well; Florida GOP Senator Tested Positive for COVID; Rudy Giuliani's Son Now in Quarantine; Joe Biden Officially Wins Georgia. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 20, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: We have a situation when the experts says these legislatures can't change the law after election day, they can't change the vote. But the president is still reaching out, inviting them to the White House and wanting Rudy to give them a sell.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You just se, he wants to be nice. There's no ulterior motive to that.
CUOMO: But I'm saying, what we are supposed to make of what's possible.
LEMON: What's possible with what? It's possible he -- there's no changing. I mean, in the court of public opinion, he may want to -- he may -- I don't know if he's going to change anyone outside of his -- the people who are very strongly connected to him and support him. Everybody else sees what's going on, and even they see what's going on, but they can't, you know, they can't quit him. So -- they can't. They can't quit him.
CUOMO: Of all the phrases.
LEMON: It's true, though. I mean, think about it.
CUOMO: I get the idea.
LEMON: It's like -- it's similar to when someone becomes famous, right, and then the fame goes away. And you are like, you're looking for that recognition. And then once it's gone, you're like, wait a minute. Where are the cameras? Why is nobody calling me on the phone? Why am I no longer the it person, no longer the ingenue? I think that's kind of what's going on.
And then after a while, you realize, well, you know, everything has its time and comes to an end. All good or bad thing comes to an end.
CUOMO: Which, look, would be a nice kind of, you know, story of the journey of learning if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic.
LEMON: Well that's true. CUOMO: And every day we do this. But more importantly, because look,
we know who this man is. We've known it from the beginning. There is no surprise no matter what he does.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But for the Trump party to stand by and watch and not do anything to help with relief --
LEMON: It's unbelievable.
CUOMO: -- and not do anything to help with the pandemic and not to jump up and down and say he's wrong. Where will they go from here?
LEMON: Yes. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I've been looking for the answer to that and this whole thing about reaching out and, yes, everybody needs to come together and we need to -- all that kumbaya stuff. That would be great in a completely utopian society but that's not what we live in.
CUOMO: Thunderdome.
LEMON: Right. So, but how do you -- this is an honest question -- how do you come to some sort of compromise or an agreement with a person who doesn't believe in science, a person who doesn't believe in facts, a person who doesn't believe in reality? Any of that.
A person who doesn't believe that even just the courtesy of maybe taking care of your fellow man's health. It's like -- remember you used to keep napkins. I'd find napkins in my pocket. Now it's like, I have like masks everywhere. I am like, where's the mask? I just feel there's one in some pocket everywhere, right? And that's how it should be.
Just -- for someone who doesn't believe in that, how do you come to some sort of agreement that you don't care enough about maybe yourself or you don't care enough about someone else that you just can't put a little piece of cloth over your face. I don't know where the compromise and the come-togethering, I know that's out -- where that's going to come from.
CUOMO: I think as we both know is it's not about the mask.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It's about all the -- it's all the reasons and the twisted thoughts --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- and feelings that go into why they don't wear one and I don't know what the answer is to get past it.
LEMON: Yes. So, you thought you were getting rid of me right now, but you're not next week. We've discussed this. I haven't -- I haven't updated you but I'm going to update our audience right now. CUOMO: So, I've got to wait?
LEMON: Yes, you got to wait.
CUOMO: With everybody else?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Really? I carry your dogs.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I keep you safe. And this is what I get? Fine. I love you, D. Lemon despite you. I love you.
LEMON: I love you. Stand by for news. Thank you, sir. You as well. I love you.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
This is Friday night, and we look ahead as we look ahead to Thanksgiving week. Here's what we just learned. That we have crossed over 193,000 new coronavirus cases today. That is the highest one-day total since this pandemic began. And God help us here in the United States.
What I was going to tell Chris, is I was looking forward to it, as all of us are, right? Everybody is looking forward to, especially in the news business, I'm sure some frontline workers or what have you would feel the same way.
But I was supposed to go on vacation next week, take some time off and spend with my fiance and go on a trip, canceled my plans because I want to follow the CDC guidelines to stay safe. Cancel them as of today -- yesterday when the CDC guidelines came out, I texted and said, we cannot go away. Those are the guidelines.
I would be a complete hypocrite to go away, even if it's just us quarantining together. Not doing it. So I want you to please stay safe at home.
[22:05:02]
And while I'm at it, it just reminded me. Rachel and Susan, I hope you get well, and Rachel, you as well. I'm talking about Rachel Maddow and her partner Susan who has contracted COVID and is now recovering. So, it just reminded me. Wishing you both well.
So, this is going to get much worse, everyone. But it can get better with a vaccine on the horizon. Two months from today, think about this, Joe Biden will put his hand, he's going to put his on the bible, he's going to take the oath of office as the 46th president of the United States.
The door is closing. But the current president is not budging, still stalling on the transition, still trying to subvert the will of the American people, still refusing to cooperate with the president-elect. Even with the pandemic raging, even as his oldest son Donald Trump Jr. has tested positive for the coronavirus.
The latest member of team Trump to be caught up in this superspreading reality-denying White House. This president is completely failing to lead as the president-elect tells local officials from cities across the country this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It didn't matter whether your city supported me or didn't support me. I meant what I said. There are no red cities. There are no blue cities. There are only American cities. And Vice President-elect Harris and I are committed to being real partners to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yet the current president is ignoring reality, refusing to admit that he lost. He is baselessly, he is baselessly, I mean, come on, he's claiming fraud when he and his minions are the ones trying to defraud the American people, trying to pressure state lawmakers into changing the vote, trying to steal the election.
He summoned Republican state lawmakers from Michigan to the White House today. But after their closed-door meeting, the state Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and the Speaker of the House - House -- Lee Chatfield put out a statement that says this.
It said we have not yet made aware -- we have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and as legislative leaders. We will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan electors just as we have said throughout this election. Michigan's certification process should be a deliberate process free from threats and intimidation.
Free from threats and intimidation. At least these state officials are standing up to protect our democracy. They are doing that when so many of our national leaders on Capitol Hill, nowhere to be found. Where are you?
That as governor -- Georgia's governor Brian Kemp tonight signed the paperwork that grants his state's 16 electoral votes to President- elect Joe Biden. We're talking about Georgia here, people. After saying that he would follow the law, certify the votes for Biden.
So, the president lost the attempt to steal the votes in Georgia. And it's not looking like the Michigan Republicans want to drive his getaway car there. But sources tell CNN there are discussions underway with Trump about inviting Republican state legislators from Pennsylvania to the White House. The deadline for counties in Pennsylvania to certify their totals? That's Monday.
In the wake of that insane circus of a press conference yesterday, Rudy Giuliani and his clown car full of lying warriors throwing around accusations that would be laughable if they weren't so damaging to our democracy.
The editors of the conservative National Review write this. The conservative National Review. Have you ever read that? OK. Here's what they are saying over there. This is lawyering worthy of the comments section of Breitbart news, National Review.
Like I said, this is damaging our democracy. Can that damage be undone? And what should be a hopeful day, a day when the president should really be happy, maybe even taking a win on vaccines, he instead claims the approval process was delayed until after the election just to bring him down.
Always me, me, me, me, me, with him. Never mind saving the lives of countless Americans is all about him. Right? Trump whisperer Geraldo Rivera has an idea for something that might make this snowflake of a president feel better. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:10:02]
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: I had an idea, you know, with the world so divided and everybody, you know, telling him he's got to give up and time to leave and time to transition and all the rest of it. Why not name the vaccine the Trump. You know, make it like, have you gotten your Trump yet? It would be a nice gesture to him, and years from now it would become a generic name. Have you got your Trump yet? Yes, I got my Trump. I'm fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Geraldo. Really? Come on, bro. Geraldo. The president. He suggests that we inject disinfectant and shine light inside our bodies as a cure -- I don't know. Let's name the vaccine the Trump Trump. Really? Come on, Geraldo. It's pretty pathetic. Even Steve Doocy had to laugh out loud at it.
But at least he's trying to get the president's attention, he's trying to get through to him, I guess. The president who today held what he claimed was a news conference, then refused to take any questions from reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Mr. President --
UNKNOWN: Mr. President --
WEIJIA JIANG, CORRESPONDENT, CBS NEWS: Mr. President, are you being a sore loser? Are you being a sore loser?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: News conference means you take questions. So, there he was completely abdicate anything attempt at leadership, still stalling the transition, 17 days after the election that Joe Biden won, the president-elect meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: My Oval Office, mi casa, su casa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Biden doing what he can to move forward despite the president's stalling. But I want you to just listen to -- this is the White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany what she said today in her first briefing since October 1st.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Something that I would note is just we talked a lot about transfer of power and the election and it's worth remembering that this president was never given an orderly transition of power. His presidency was never accepted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Boy. Never given an orderly transition of power? That's really something, even from a White House that seems to pride itself on lies and disinformation. So, let's go to the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power. And we don't just respect that, we cherish it.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: My number one priority in the coming two months is to try to facilitate a transition that ensures our president-elect is successful. And I believe that it is important for all of us, regardless of party, and regardless of political preferences, to now come together, work together to deal with the many challenges that we face.
I want to emphasize to you, Mr. President-elect, that we now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed because if you succeed, then the country succeeds.
BIDEN: And we're prepared to work. I told Mike, the vice president- elect that I'm available to him 24/7. We've already talked about some matters relating to foreign policy and other things.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Every four years we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power. And we are grateful to President Obama and first Lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition. They have been magnificent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, you saw what Hillary Clinton, former President Barack Obama, the President-elect Joe Biden did, vice president at the time. You saw that. Takes a big person to do that. Maybe that's why he's not doing it.
So, Kayleigh McEnany stands at the podium, lies about the Trump transition, even though the president himself in his inaugural address thanked President Barack Obama, the first lady, for their help during the orderly transition of power that she claims that he was never given.
[22:15:06]
She lies about that. But she refuses to even take a question from CNN's Kaitlan Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Why don't you call on all of us? You haven't taken --
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: I don't call an activist.
COLLINS: I'm not an activist. And you haven't taken questions since October 1st and you just took about five, Kayleigh. That's not doing your job. Your taxpayer funded job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Go, Kaitlan. That was really good and really honest. That is the truth because we're all paying for her salary. I know Kayleigh McEnany. I know her. And I know Kaitlan Collins. And the thing that's so wrong about what you just heard, besides it being rude and showing Kayleigh losing her cool under pressure, the pressure must be getting to her, obviously.
So, the problem with that is, you know, losing her cool under pressure is that Kayleigh chooses to use her skills in the service of the biggest liar we have ever known. She lies herself. And for what? Why? To excuse away the decisions that have left 250,000 Americans dead? To support attempted theft of our election?
But Kaitlan uses her skills to inform the American people of the facts and the truth. And if those are never on the president's side, President Trump's side, he only has himself to blame. And you have yourself to blame, Kayleigh, for spreading them.
Kaitlan Collins is here next with the latest on another member of the president's inner circle testing of positive for the coronavirus, his oldest son, Don Junior, who has been spreading disinformation like this about the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: I went through the CDC, I kept hearing about new infections but I was like, why aren't they talking about this? Because the number is almost nothing. Because we've gotten control of this thing. We understand how it works.
[22:20:00]
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Our breaking news tonight. More than 193,000 new cases of coronavirus in this country. The highest one-day total since the pandemic began. That as Donald Trump, Jr. tests positive for coronavirus. A spokesman for the president's oldest son says he's currently asymptomatic and has been quarantining since the beginning of the week.
Joining me now is CNN's White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and Dr. Jonathan Reiner, he is the director of the cardiac catherization program at George Washington University Hospital.
Hello to both of you. Good evening. Kaitlan, you first. So, I just want to get to President Trump dealing with two defeats today as he continues to try to overturn the election. What are you hearing about the meet with those Michigan state lawmakers at the White House today?
COLLINS: Well, Don, we're told it lasted about an hour. Of course, this is an incredibly unusual meeting, even though the White House described it as routine. You do not often see the president meet with state lawmakers. Certainly not a state that he lost to Joe Biden by 150,000 votes a few days before they're set to certify those results.
And so the question is of course, is the president going to try to use his political muscle to pressure these legislators -- excuse me -- to get the electors to do something different than, of course, you know, overriding the vote basically of what the voters in Michigan wanted.
But if you look at this statement that came out after they left this meeting from these legislators it makes clear that they did not get that signal from the president. They say they have no evidence still that anything should change with the vote with Michigan and say they are going to proceed as planned.
So, whatever it is that the president said to them, we're told it was a cordial meeting. Clearly it didn't end the way the president wanted or certainly not his attorney Sidney Powell who was saying yesterday that these legislatures in these different states should get their electors to basically override the will of the people in those states and choose Donald Trump even though they had voted for Joe Biden.
LEMON: Just pretend like the election never happened and people had never voted for. It's unbelievable. Kaitlan, we are also learning tonight that Donald Trump, Jr. is the latest in the president's orbit to test positive for coronavirus. What do you know about it?
COLLINS: Yes. We're told that he's quarantining or isolating would be the world actually. But he has been positive since earlier this week according to his spokesman who said, about on Monday was when he had tested positive. And he's been self-isolating since then.
It's notable because remember a few months ago his girlfriend who also works for the Trump campaign chairing the finance committee, she had tested positive going into a Trump event on the Fourth of July. And so now he has tested positive.
And it really just goes to show you that anyone can get coronavirus, even those in the president's inner circle and his family because it's not just Donald Trump, Jr. It's also Rudy Giuliani's son has tested positive, forcing Rudy Giuliani to quarantine in Washington. So it's really this widespread effect. You're seeing how much it affects people close to the president.
LEMON: Dr. Reiner, there have been repeated outbreaks at the White House. Don Junior is one of multiple people who have tested positive after attending an indoor election night party with barely any masks.
When you don't take the virus seriously, aren't outbreaks likely, like this, unfortunate? I mean, it's unfortunate, obviously, but it's inevitable, don't you think?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, it's even simpler than that, Don. When you don't take masks seriously, you will get infected by this virus. We know the converse is true. If you take masking seriously, you are likely not to get this virus.
[22:25:02]
I don't have any schadenfreude about Don Junior's illness, and I hope he recovers quickly. But I am angry that so many in these people -- so many people in this country, excuse me, have died as a consequence of this administration, his father's inattention to this pandemic.
Two hundred fifty thousand Americans are dead, another 1,800 dead today. This is the third day in a row that over 1,800 people in this country have died, almost 200,000 new cases. And that death number is going to double over the next month. We're going to start to see close to 4,000 dead people per day in the United States. And that just makes me so angry.
LEMON: Yes. And listen, it's -- taking it seriously, obviously, we all should, wearing a mask. It is -- it's to reduce. It won't eliminate anything, but it's to reduce the risk of you or someone else getting it. Anybody can get it, right? If you can take all the precautions. But your chances are much lower if you actually just adhere to the guidelines, Dr. Reiner.
I mean, the U.S. is reporting more than 193,000 new coronavirus cases just today. That is sadly a new record for this pandemic. How dangerous is it that the Trump administration still not sharing COVID information with the incoming team, the Biden team?
REINER: It's critical that they're not doing this. And they're not doing this at the hottest point in this pandemic. When the Biden administration takes over in just about two months now, they need to hit the ground running. They need to know, you know, what our PPE stockpiles are. They need to know which industries can ramp up if they need to, invoke the DPA. They need to know where the limits are in our logistics for
distributing vaccine. Now they can get some of this maybe from manufacturers directly, but it's going to take them a longer period of time. They need -- you know, why would you hamper your military when they are getting geared up for battle?
LEMON: Kaitlan, I want to ask you about -- this is important when it comes to international relations and security because the president will participate in this weekend's virtual G20 summit. All these world leaders are watching him defeated, trying to steal the election. What do you think that's going to be like?
COLLINS: It could be a little awkward because some of these very leaders that the president is going to be on this virtual conference call with have already called Joe Biden to congratulate him on winning the presidency, which, of course, is something that Donald Trump and many Republicans have not recognized yet.
I mean, the leader of Turkey has recognized Joe Biden as the next president before Donald Trump has. And so it could be a moment to where that is something that comes up. Because you've seen world leaders tried to navigate this after they've had these calls.
You saw Boris Johnson refer to Joe Biden -- or refer to Donald Trump as the previous president in the United States. We're told that actually stung a little bit for President Trump. And so, it could be one of those moments where, you know, the administration, Secretary of State Pompeo, has been saying the world is watching what's happening.
They certainly are, but not in the way the administration has been implying because this isn't an administration who goes out and tells other governments to respect free and fair elections and we're seeing Donald Trump right now not do that very thing they've advised others to do.
LEMON: Well previous is better. It sounds better than lame-duck at least because he is a lame duck. Kaitlan, I'm not sure if you see your monitor right there but all I have to -- I don't have anything to say to you, just to -- that's all I have to say. Keep calm and carry on. Have a great weekend both of you. I'll see you. Happy Thanksgiving if I don't see you. Thanks.
REINER: Thanks.
COLLINS: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you.
The president's meeting with Republican lawmakers from Michigan today doesn't seem to have gone the way that he wanted it to go. Michigan's secretary of state responds, next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: President Trump desperately trying to overturn his election defeat. Today he met with republican state lawmakers from Michigan in the White House for about an hour. But these public servants came out after the meeting and made it clear, they're unaware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in their state.
Joining me now to discuss is Michigan's Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson. So good to see you. Thank you very much. I appreciate you joining.
JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: Always a pleasure, Don. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: So, Secretary, President Trump has been trying to overturn the will of the voters. And he set his sights on Michigan. Based on this statement, I mean, it sounds like he failed.
BENSON: Well, I mean, look, I know the lawmakers who met with the president today quite well. They are people who do respect the rule of law, and I would expect also would, as they've said publicly, not seek to obstruct the will of the voters.
And in the case here in Michigan, the will of the voters has been clearly stated. And there's no facts or legal avenue to really overturn or obstruct that. And so, you know, I'm optimistic and grateful that the lawmakers seem to agree and see things the same way.
LEMON: OK. So, you know, OK. So, everyone at home is like, there's something. My gosh. Are they going to steal it with local legislators, blah, blah, blah. You know that what the concern is. So, what is the next step toward certifying your results, and is there any way the president can interfere with that?
BENSON: Well, there are very clear, strict protocols in place and many steps to the process with an eye towards protecting the will of the people. We're through a lot of those steps.
There's been a county by county canvass where the vote totals have been examined. Each county has now certified the canvass. And what typically happens now in which will happen on Monday is the board of state canvassers meets and it's a very administrative role they play to simply approve the canvass.
[22:35:00]
The law is clear about what authority they do and do not have and their authority is very limited to simply an administrative role. And the idea for that is really to keep them out of politics. Just look at the data. Confirm that everything is by the book, as it is, and allow us to move forward with any post-election audits that we'd like to do or need to do in our office to continue to improve the administration of elections moving forward.
LEMON: I want to go back and just follow up on something that you said earlier. You said these are people who believe in the rule of law, right, to fair elections. But it seems like extraordinary interference to invite the state's Republican leadership to the White House, the very people who are set to certify the election next. Should they have refused to go?
BENSON: It certainly -- you know, it's a decision they make, and I wouldn't kind of tend to comment or try to guess what their motivation might be there. But certainly, the timing of it, the optics of it, if nothing else, are not good for the health of our democracy and people's faith in the process.
LEMON: Yes.
BENSON: And that's again what we keep having to think about. You know, we have a, on one hand, a very clear legal process to certifying the election and assuring that we move forward with all the protocols in place for confirming the vote and allowing those elected to serve.
And then on the second -- the other side of things we have this political shenanigans happening, a P.R. campaign masquerading as legal claims and all the rest, as I said before, and we have to avoid, I think, all public officials should avoid adding fuel to that very misguided P.R. campaign that's designed to sow seeds of doubt among our electorate about their faith in our democracy.
So, you know, I think we'll focus on the law, we'll focus on the data, we'll certify the election and also, I hope others will continue to not feed into the misinformation campaign that seems to be driven at eroding citizens' faith in our process.
LEMON: That's a big hope. And I hope you -- listen, I am right there with you, but we'll see. As you know, secretary, there was intense public outrage after the Republicans in Wayne County tried to block election results. Do you think that sent a message to GOP leaders who met with the president today?
BENSON: I am certainly grateful for the members of the public who played their role and stayed engaged after the election and advocated for their votes to be counted and their voices to be heard. What breaks my heart is that they had to.
Because again, the county canvassing process is an administrative one which confirms the count after there's been a canvass and examination of the books as there was in Wayne County and throughout the state.
And the other thing that really was tough to watch in that process and still continue to see is the fact that Detroit's elections and any bookkeeping imbalances that occurred that oftentimes are just simply a reflection of clerical errors actually decreased significantly this year from November 2016.
And November 2016, a significant number of precincts were out of balance, and that number dropped to, you know, just about 28 percent in the most recent election in November 2020. And so that number, in and of itself, I think, is a reflection of the fact that Detroit's elections were much improved from past elections that had been certified with no objection or problem. LEMON: Secretary Benson, thank you so much. Try to get some sleep
between -- just in general. Just get some sleep. Thank you. We appreciate you joining us.
BENSON: Thank you.
LEMON: Yes.
BENSON: All right. Have a good night.
LEMON: So, he refuses to concede. He insists that he won. But not everyone is following along with Trump's attempts to overturn the election, you know.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A double whammy for President Trump tonight suffering two big losses in his attempts to overturn his election defeat. Georgia's Republican governor signing the paper work that officially seals Joe Biden's win in the state.
And Michigan GOP lawmakers who visited the White House at the invitation of President Trump say they have not been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of Michigan's results.
Joining me is CNN's senior political commentator David Axelrod and Mark McKinnon, the former adviser to President George W. Bush and Presidents -- President George W. Bush and Senator John McCain. Good to see both of you.
David, this is a very simple question. W.T. you know what. What is going on here?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I said to you, Don, and everybody else, for months that there were only two outcomes that Donald Trump will -- would accept. One is that he would win, and the other would be that the race was stolen. There was no third option. There was no way he was ever going to accept defeat. He was defeated. It's very clear he was defeated.
I think the thing that we should focus on tonight is that the system is being pressure tested, and what we saw in Georgia today was two Republican office holders, one of whom has close ties to the president saying, we are going to follow the law. We are going to do our duty. We are going to see to it that the candidate who got the most votes in our state will get the electors, as the law prescribes.
Apparently, that's what the Michigan legislators said when they left the White House. At least that seems to be the meaning of their statement. That's something to be celebrated. Now maybe you can say, well, we -- why should we even have to have this discussion? And I understand that.
But, you know, to me, it's reassuring that, you know, these officials are doing their duty and standing up to the pressures that the president is placing on them. And I think we should -- we should note that.
[22:45:02]
LEMON: Listen, I don't disagree with you. I mean, you're right about the question, you know, why are we even having this? But we are. And so, since we are, I think you're right. And I think the lawmakers who are standing up for the democracy should be commended tonight. And so, we should not overlook that. That shouldn't go unsaid.
This is -- today was a big loss, two big losses today. It was a bad day, Mark, for this president because, you know, as David just mentioned, you got these Michigan lawmakers who are saying that they haven't been given any information that would change the outcome of the election.
But, you know, Charlie Dent who you appear with on this network, just told us that the president's next move is to try this on Pennsylvania. He is not going to give up.
MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Don, well, I mean, we are applauding some Republican lawmakers today for simply doing their job. For telling the truth and executing --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The bar is set low.
MCKINNON: -- what they were elected to their jobs to do.
LEMON: Yes.
MCKINNON: We should just send the Statue of Liberty back to France. I mean, we were once the shining beacon of democracy and Donald Trump is just unplugging it. And, you know, it's -- the guy who is claiming the election was stolen is trying to steal the election in front of our eyes and out loud. And it's such a blight on our country and our standing in the world.
But to David's point, this is the ultimate pressure test because Donald Trump is going to take it to the absolute limit. And we will find out if our forefathers and the people who wrote the Constitution did it right.
LEMON: Well, what do you think? Did they? Or you think it's yet to be determined? TBD?
MCKINNON: Well, I think today was an example, as David said. I think this was a couple good examples of -- you know, listen. I mean, the president called in a couple of state lawmakers into the Oval Office to obviously try and pressure them into doing something that --
LEMON: No.
MCKINNON: -- that was contrary to their good judgment. And they came out and they held up. So that's a tough deal to go into the Oval Office with this guy and walk out and keep your principles. It appears they have.
LEMON: David, I was watching the coronavirus task force meeting yesterday that was, you know, led by the vice president. He didn't take any questions. It was frustrating and some misinformation and so on, but it was interesting that Dr. Fauci was there doing his job, and then, you know, I looked at the person who was in the room with me watching it and we said, if he had just done that, right, if he had gotten out of the way --
AXELROD: Right.
LEMON: -- he probably would have won. And instead of, you know, staying focused on this hopeful news about vaccines, he's accusing companies of making them, you know -- of them trying to influence the election. Listen to this and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Pfizer and others even decided to not assess the results of their vaccine, in other words, not come out with the vaccine until just after the election. So, they waited and waited and waited and they thought they'd come out with it a few days after the election. And it would have probably had an impact. Who knows? Maybe it wouldn't have. I'm sure they would have found the ballots some place, the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It was much better without him yesterday. And today it devolves into that. It's all about him.
AXELROD: Right. It's always about him. And, look, Don, you know, if you could go back to the beginning of this, and if he had handled the virus in a different way, yes, he may well be on his way to a second term right now.
But he didn't because he's Donald Trump and he isn't capable of doing the things that are necessary to ask -- to level with people, ask people for sacrifice. He's always spinning.
Here's my concern. My concern is not whether Joe Biden will be taking the oath of office on January 20th. He will. He's going to be the next president. My concern is that there are a lot of people in this country who believe the nonsense that the president is speaking. That is carried out on all the various networks that speak to them.
You know, this craziness that we heard yesterday, and that is, as Mark points out, that is the concern. The signal we're sending to the world. But also, the signal that we're sending to fellow Americans, many of whom are believing that somehow an election that is notable for the way it came off, the efficiency with which it came off, the assiduousness with which it was policed and with which it was administered. The millions of people who -- 160 million. It was exemplary. It was a
real example of democracy at its best, and it is being torn down and sullied by this president. And it creates a situation where there is going to be some portion of Americans who are going to greet this new president and feel that he somehow was illegitimately selected, which is just not true.
[22:49:57]
That is damaging. It's subversive to him. It's subversive to our democracy. The pout the president is in, depriving the president-elect of the cooperation that every president --
LEMON: That's the important part.
AXELROD: -- should expect.
LEMON: That's the important part.
AXELROD: You know, that, yes.
LEMON: Because him accepting the --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: I mean, all of that is.
LEMON: He's never going to accept the outcome of the election. It's always going to do like you said, you know, it was rigged, and they stole it from me.
But here's the thing, even if he believes that, he should be a big enough man, a big enough person he should understand the enormity of that office, and he should help with the transition like other presidents even in contested elections did. He should do that for the country. But he is not doing that. He's not a big enough person to do that.
Mark, you got something new, or are you in reruns this weekend?
MCKINNON: We're taking a break now. Catching our breath. But I just want to echo what David said and you're saying as well, Don, which is that, you know, even if Donald Trump knows that this is B.S., which I think clearly, he does, obviously.
LEMON: He does.
MCKINNON: He needs to perpetuate the myth, because he's so selfish he's doing it because he wants his supporters to believe it, so that the -- so that the emperor still has his clothes and the king doesn't bleed, right?
And to David's point, that's just going to handicap Joe Biden. That's going to handicap his ability to get people to take vaccines, it's going to take people's lives because of that, because he's so selfish. And the point is that, you know, David can talk about the transition
from Bush to Obama and from Obama to Trump. You know, we, that wasn't fun for any of us of handing off the torch, but we did it for the good of the country.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That's what you do.
MCKINNON: We did it graciously to make sure that the --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Without question.
LEMON: Yes.
MCKINNON: -- it's in the interests of the country.
LEMON: It's just he's such a, he's so small. Such a small person. Thank you. I appreciate it.
MCKINNON: Thank you.
It's not just Don Junior who is testing positive. Right? I want you to take this. There is another outbreak in Trump's inner circle.
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Take this, along with the news tonight that Donald Trump, Jr. tested positive for COVID-19, we're also learning that another member of the U.S. Senate has tested positive for the virus. Florida Republican Senator Rick Scott saying in a statement that he tested positive this morning, that he is experiencing very mild symptoms and he is recuperating at home.
Scott attended a packed campaign event in Georgia last week for the two GOP senators facing run-off elections. Some who were there wore masks, many did not. His office says Scott came into contact with someone who later tested positive for COVID.
Then there's Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's attorney, forced to skip meetings at the White House today. He is self-isolating after his son Andrew, a special assistant to the president tested positive.
God, I can't believe Andrew is that old now. I remember when Giuliani's inauguration, I remember he was a little kid standing there at the lectern with his dad messing with the microphone. Now he's a grown man.
Andrew Giuliani tweeting this, he said this morning I tested positive for COVID-19. I'm experiencing mild symptoms and following all appropriate protocols including being in quarantine and conducting contact tracing. So, there you go. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
