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Don Lemon Tonight

GSA Gives A Green Light To Joe Biden's Team; Trump Lawyers Denying A Member; President Trump Loses His Appetite To Giuliani?; Joe Biden Moves Forward With His Plan; A Lot Of Time Wasted; Biden Wins In Michigan; Hope Comes At The Right Time; White House Prepares For Another Event. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired November 23, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: What does your family say to you when they heard what you did for your pup?

RICHARD WILBANKS, FLORIDA RESIDENT: It's just been, you know, it's been fantastic. I mean, we've had so many well-wishers call and, you know, with concern about Gunner and concern about myself and just wanting to make sure that we were all OK and it just turned out to be a real feel-good story.

CUOMO: Well, you are the real deal. Usually I don't see guys with shirts with no sleeves on but you should have whatever you want and whatever you want. You are a man's man and you are a woman's woman. You did everything that a human being could do right in a wrong situation and I respect you and appreciate you. I'm going to find out what kind of cigars you like and I'm sending you a box. Because to do it all --

(CROSSTALK)

WILBANKS: My goodness.

CUOMO: -- without losing your cigar --

WILBANKS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Thank you. Thank you for being an example of what people can do when bad things happen to good puppies. Richard Wilbanks, happy Thanksgiving. I know Gunner is going to have a good one.

WILBANKS: And happy Thanksgiving to the world.

CUOMO: Yes, sir. All right. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon. You know you like that I did that on your watch. You know you wanted every piece of that guy on your watch.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I know you like to fashion yourself a tough guy and man --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I like that.

LEMON: -- you would have loved that to be you and someone goes --

CUOMO: It would not have been me.

LEMON: I got to tell you --

CUOMO: It would not have been me.

LEMON: You know I'm from Louisiana. Lots of gators down there. And you usually -- we usually don't like to mess with those gators. They're like sleeping dogs. You just let them lie. But this one when you got a dog and a gator coming together and the gator's trying to eat the dog, you know, you got to take care of that. But this is what we say about we those gators. We comp them gators down in Louisiana at LSU.

CUOMO: Maybe on the football field. What I'm saying is you got two rescues that you love, or at least two, I've got the three dogs.

LEMON: My gosh. Can you imagine?

CUOMO: I don't know that I have what it makes to go under the water where the alligator is with the puppy. I'd like to think I would.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But I don't know.

LEMON: I know you -- I know you -- I don't think -- I know that you don't but I'll tell you like this. Whenever you say you're going to beat me up. I'm like that gator from --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You're not like me. You're like the puppy.

LEMON: I'm scrappy. I got to tell you what. I tell you what. This is what's happening right now. Americans are trying to wrestle back from this president that's where we need to start.

CUOMO: Good segue.

LEMON: You have a good evening. Yes. Not wrestle, wrestle (Ph).

CUOMO: Good segue. Good segue. I love you, Don Lemon.

LEMON: I'll see you later.

CUOMO: I'd pry you out of --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I love you more than bottle grits.

CUOMO: I'd pry you out of the mouth of an alligator any day. Have a good show. LEMON: It might be you. So, we got figure that out. You're the gator

here.

CUOMO: If it's me --

LEMON: Thank you, sir. I'll see you later.

CUOMO: -- met me go if it's me. I've had enough.

LEMON (on camera): See you later.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

We do start with breaking news tonight. And the breaking news is that, are you ready, it is over. The desperate refusal to admit the reality everyone else has seen for 16 days now, it is over. And that is of Joe Biden and really sane America trying to wrestle democracy back. Joe Biden is the president-elect whether the president likes it or not.

So tonight, the transition to the Biden administration can finally officially begin. And it couldn't happen at a better time. Thanksgiving week, folks are at home, they need to -- we need to, you know, to just rest instead of all the craziness.

The news first on CNN. Coming in in a letter from a previously little- known bureaucrat, that's a General Services Administrator Emily Murphy. This is what Emily Murphy writes. She says, I take this role seriously and because of recent developments involving legal challenges and certifications of election results, I am transmitting this letter today to make those resources and services available to you.

Should have happened a long time ago but America will take it. Trump insiders admitting, quote, "it is over," blaring wakeup call. This is close to a concession as you may get from Trump. That's probably it. And OK, fine. I can tell you the damage he has done by claiming his election was stolen is unparalleled and indefensible. OK? That's what Republican, another senior Republican is saying. And that's coming from Trump insiders. OK?

The current president trying to claim credit simultaneously tweeting that he'll continue to fight and instructing the GSA to do what needs to be done, which they're already doing it. The fact is the president- elect is moving ahead. The current president is pretty much, I don't know, out ways -- he's out of ways to hold this president-elect back. He is a lame duck president and he's trying to wiggle and do everything he can to get out of it or have some power. But it's over. Poof, power is over, done.

[22:05:06]

Biden's transition executive director saying this, today's decision is needed -- is a needed step to begin tackling the challenges facing our nation, including getting the pandemic under control and our economy back on track. And with the virus soaring across the country, millions of Americans ignoring warnings from the CDC and traveling for Thanksgiving, Joe Biden tells mayors this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: All of you have on the front lines from the very beginning and as we head into this Thanksgiving in a very dark number of cases and hospitalizations and deaths spiking, I want you to know that we're here for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): The transition is finally, finally getting under way, and not a moment too soon. It comes with more and more Republicans trying to get a message to this current president. It is time.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): The idea that a sitting president would try to -- I don't know -- pressure, cajole, persuade state legislators to dismiss the will of their voters and select their own group of electors and send them to the Electoral College is completely inconsistent with any kind of truly democratic society.

So that shouldn't be going on, in my view. I don't like to characterize how my colleagues feel about these things, but I can assure you I am not alone in this view among Republican senators.

REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): The voters spoke. Here again in Michigan, it's not a razor thin margin. It's 154,000 votes. You got to let those votes stand.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): Now we're beginning to look like we're a banana republic. It's time for them to stop the nonsense. It just gets more bizarre every single day and frankly, I'm embarrassed that more people in the party aren't speaking up.

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): And what happened here is quite frankly, the content to the president's legal team has been a national embarrassment. Listen, I've be a supporter of the presidents. I voted for him twice. But elections have consequences, and we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didn't happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): They know the party is over. President Trump knows the party is over. Just can't quit, though. Trump confidant and CEO Steve Schwarzman bluntly saying the outcome is very certain today and the country should move on.

Do you hear that, conservative media? That I've been listening to all weekend. It's over. Move on. Stop misinforming the public. One after another they saw the writing on the wall. But wait. What's that I hear from Mitch McConnell, from Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham? Do you hear that? Right, because it's crickets. You don't hear anything. The silence is deafening. Just 58 days to go until inauguration day. Now the president has

clearly run out of road. Michigan voting to certify its election results in spite of pressure from the White House. And the number of court cases won by the Trump campaign dropped from two to just one single case today after Pennsylvania's Supreme Court overturned one of those wins.

So that makes a stunning 30 cases, 30 lost or withdrawn since election day with just one win and the president true to form is looking for someone to blame, looks like it's going to be someone on his legal team. A source saying, he just about had it with Rudy Giuliani. Finally? Really? Just about had it?

You have to remember Ukraine and all the impeachment mess and the Hunter Biden stuff that sure helped him become a lame duck one-term president? Impeached one-term president and now he's finally had it with Rudy Giuliani? Where you been? He's upset with Rudy Giuliani, losing patience with the man who used to be known as America's mayor. Giuliani tonight admitting that he exaggerates a bit about voter fraud, just a bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: The city of Detroit probably had more votes than it had citizens. I'm exaggerating a little bit. But all you have to do is look at statistical data and you can see the fraud was rampant and out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Well, remember he admitted he's exaggerating, right. Then there's legal advisor as Trump would say, what a beauty. He loves that word. What a beauty. I'm talking about Jenna Ellis laughably insisting the election was stolen and Trump won in a landslide.

[22:10:00]

That's the kind of dangerous stuff that they're still spewing in conservative media. People are still buying it and they know it's a bunch of B.S. It's not true at all. Do the right thing for the country, country before party. Country before whatever it is that you're doing.

The two of them throwing attorney Sidney -- I'm talking about Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis -- throwing Sidney Powell under the bus today after her ridiculous and completely bogus claims about Venezuela and George Soros somehow being mixed up in a voter fraud.

Let's not forget, she was presented as a key member of the legal team just last week. Sidney Powell was. But I guess when you lose Rush Limbaugh, case is closed.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: You call a gigantic press conference like that, one that lasts an hour, and you announce massive bomb shells, then you better have some bomb shells. There better be something at that press conference other than what we got.

I talked to so many people who were blown away by it, by the very nature of the press con -- but they promised blockbuster stuff and then nothing happened. And that's just -- that's not -- well it's just -- it's not good.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): That's not good. Where have they been with the evidence? Were they hoping somehow that Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis, Rudy Giuliani, et al., esquires et al. With somehow come up with a way to actually steal the election. It was right in front of their faces. There was no path. They knew it was a bunch of B.S. It was obvious to everybody. Unless you just don't want to believe the truth and you're living in an alternative reality.

That is the truth tough as it is to hear for some folks. Two Trump advisors saying what the president tweeted tonight is, quote, "concession light." Great taste, less filling. If you're old enough to remember that.

One going on to call the whole thing a veiled attempt to justify continued fund-raising solicitations. I told you about that. It's to raise money. Main part of it. Save face to be able to continue to pretend to people that he is a winner and a great businessman and a good politician, none of which are true. Once a grifter, always a grifter.

All this fighting, all this disruption, terrible for the country. You remember patriot, love the country, family values, all that, where did that -- whew. Right out the door where did it go. And he's doing it so he can raise money off of you.

The Trump campaign has sent supporters at least 332 e-mails since election night. Remember, all those cases I told you, 30, thrown out, withdrawn, fund raising off of his legal fight. Milking those lawsuits for every penny he can, still trying to subvert the will of the people, still trying to defraud voters. If only the current president would listen to Donald Trump just two years ago talking turkey about votes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The winner of this vote was decided by a fair and open election conducted on the White House web site. This was a fair election. Unfortunately, carrots refused to concede and demanded a recount. And we're still fighting with carrots. And I will tell you we've come to a conclusion. Carrots, I'm sorry to tell you, the result did not change. It's too bad for carrots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Who's the real turkey? The president is yet to actually concede, and that might never happen. Do you really care, though? But after weeks of stalling completely unfounded accusations the transition can finally begin, and Joe Biden's former boss says this about what's ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There's been some damage done that is going to take some time to dig ourselves out of.

[22:15:03]

But there's no doubt that Joe's got the right people to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): Reality finally sinking in with the Trump administration. The GSA, the General Services Administration telling President-elect Joe Biden that his transition process can formally begin. It's basically an acknowledgement by President Trump that he lost the election but without him actually saying that.

Let's discuss now with CNN's White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins and our senior Washington correspondent Mr. Jeff Zeleny.

Good evening and happy Thanksgiving week to both of you.

Kaitlan, President Trump keeps losing Michigan, Pennsylvania, now the GSA saying Biden's transition can formally begin. What's he saying? How is he responding to this?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's trying to frame it as if he gave the GSA this permission to let this formal transition start to take place. Though in the letter from GSA to the Biden team they stress that they say they made this decision independently, that's what Emily Murphy, the GSA administrator said, saying that she was not pressured by the executive branch to do so. However, the president in his tweet is saying he recommended that she do so.

[22:20:00]

But I think what you're mentioning though those court cases and the string of losses that we've seen over the last 72 hours or so for the president played a role in this decision today because Emily Murphy references that in her letter saying that was behind the decision she made to move forward with this. Because she tries to defend this delay by saying she wanted to let the constitutional process play out. Of course, there's been a lot of criticism of her and GSA for stonewalling it for this long.

But it does appear that that is not only having effect on this actually taking place but also on how the president is viewing this.

LEMON: Yes. And there, I mean, there's been case after case after case that we said at least 30 of them that's been withdrawn or even thrown out. Their record is terrible.

Jeff, what's the board from the Biden team? Because they're going to have to access -- they're going to have access now to resources, critically important resources critically important information on national security, COVID and so on and so forth. They've been trying to get this information, but they've been stonewalled.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Don, they have. And tomorrow is three weeks from election day. So, they certainly have been waiting for this. But even then, I'm told this still came as a bit of a surprise to people inside Biden world. They were not necessarily expecting this letter to come this evening.

So certainly, that is something that opens the door to their transition, opens the door to what they've really already been doing. I mean, he's not been slowing down in terms of naming people but it does give them access to documents, access to that funding and really a sense of what is going on inside the administration.

Let's take a look at a statement that the Biden transition sent out tonight. There's actually some very interesting words when you actually analyze them a little bit. But part of it reads like this.

In the days ahead, the transition officials will begin meeting with federal officials to discuss the pandemic response, have a full accounting of our national security interest and gain complete understanding of the Trump administration's efforts to hollow out government agencies.

So, on the face that kind of sounds like normal words. What they're saying, there, the translation is Russia, the nation's national security interest, really see what is going on, you know, a possible communication between the U.S. and them and hollowing out government agencies, really trying to see what the Trump administration and the Biden team's view has done over the last four years.

So, there's certainly is something they believe meetings could begin tomorrow or in the coming days. But their focus is on COVID-19, the vaccine plan, of course, and specific scientific information still coming from these states and of course the ultimate meeting that we are sure will happen at some appointment, Dr. Fauci and Joe Biden. They've known each other for so long. You can just imagine at some point that will happen but certainly there will be meetings at the lower levels before that, Don.

LEMON: Hey, Jeff, you touch on this but I just want to -- I want to delve in a little bit more here because Joe Biden is unveiling his picks for a top post --

ZELENY: Sure.

LEMON: -- in his administration. Can you talk about the history making part of it? What do you know?

ZELENY: I mean, pretty extraordinary when you look at the number of people, the cabinet appointments that were made today. The announcements. of course, the official nominations come after he becomes president. But when you look at the list of people named already, Tony Blinken, secretary of state. He of course has been a long-time adviser of Joe Biden.

But look at the nominee for the Department of the Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas. He is an immigrant to the United States. He would oversee immigration policy. Avril Haines would be the first woman to lead the National Intelligence Agency and the intelligence community here. Janet Yellen would be the first woman to serve as treasury secretary, on and on.

So, clearly, what the Biden team is trying to do in both style and substance say, look, there's a new sheriff in town, this is not the Trump administration, we are going to make every one of these appointments so that's something larger than that. So yes, it's about these names and the biographies of these individuals but it's also about specific policy as well, Don.

LEMON: Yes, and about people who are really qualified. One of them I have to say is from the town --

ZELENY: Sure.

LEMON: -- my neighboring town where I went to high school. I went to high school in Baker, Louisiana. Linda Thomas-Greenfield is from Baker. Congratulations to her.

ZELENY: Right.

LEMON: A hometown lady who did really, really well and we're all proud of her.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: The ambassador to the United Nations.

LEMON: Yes. I hope to get her on to talk about, to talk about that and talk about Baker, Louisiana, what's changed and what's still the same.

Kaitlan, you know, CNN is learning that President Trump is souring on Rudy Giuliani. I mentioned it in the top of the show. What's this about? It seems that he's blaming everybody but himself. We have been saying, come on, Rudy Giuliani over the course of this presidency has not been good for this president and just in the past couple of weeks with all these antics and the court cases and this team, he's just now starting to sour on Rudy Giuliani? Go on, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. We often see Rudy Giuliani be the save face for where Republicans can criticize Rudy Giuliani on what he's doing without criticizing the president and it's kind of been a territory that they've fallen into over the last several weeks when really, what Rudy Giuliani is saying is yes, he may be feeding the president's tendencies here but it's the president who's making the decision to amplify these conspiracy theories.

[22:25:04] And so, when you saw over the weekend, they distanced themselves from Sidney Powell after she was heavily criticized for presenting theories without evidence. You know, hers were far-fetch than some of the ones that the president has floated but they're both still pushing conspiracy theories about the election without any evidence.

And so now there are reports that he's souring on Rudy Giuliani. I do think we can get to a point where the president is blaming his legal team for the losses that he suffered, even though we've heard from election experts and attorneys saying that it didn't matter which legal team was representing the president, he still did not have a case here. It wouldn't have changed anything of the outcome. So that could be where we end up but of course it really ultimately rests with the president.

LEMON: It did -- well it didn't help that he picked the ones in the clown car to represent him, though. Thank you very -- insult to injury. Thank you very much. I appreciate both of you. I'll see you soon.

I want to bring in now Denise Turner Roth, the former GSA administrator under President Barack Obama. It is -- I am so happy to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us, ma'am. I really appreciate it.

DENISE TURNER ROTH, FORMER GSA ADMINISTRATOR: Thank you. It's good to be with you.

LEMON: So, CNN breaking the news that the transition can begin. You were the one that signed off on the Trump transition. Should the formal sign off for President-elect Biden have ever taken this long? It's been more than two weeks since the election was called.

ROTH: It has been. And unfortunately, as we wait each day that goes by is a day that the presidential transition team is not getting to work on very significant activities and efforts.

In terms of the election itself, you know, looking at the results in the states that were reporting and thereby the electoral votes that have been achieved by President-elect Biden, you would have really hoped for this transition to start immediately.

LEMON: Yes. I want to read part of what President Trump tweeted after he saw the GSA administrator Emily Murphy's letter. And I quote here. He says I am recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols and have told my team to do the same.

This, I'm sure you will agree, this might be the closest thing that we'll ever see to a concession, but to be clear, Murphy didn't need a concession for things to get going. Correct?

ROTH: She did not. In terms of the ascertainment that the GSA administrator has the authority for, it's understanding that and it's the apparent winner, being selected and identified. It's not as she points out in her letter for the administrator to determine, but it is based on the apparent winner.

And in this case I think arguably we have the apparent winner in place, you know, something that she points to is the precedent of the 2000 elections when, in fact, that election it wasn't clear the path to 270 electoral votes for either leading candidate, and that was a different circumstance, but here, we had an apparent winner.

There has been time that's gone by and because of that, that does impact the Trump presidential transition team. Of course, the Biden team has been working to get up to speed and obviously, it's made a number of appointments and announcements.

But at the end of the day there's 100 federal agencies close to four million federal employees and a lot of policy and determination to understand and to take hold of before January 20th, and we want the presidential team to be prepared on day one. We don't want them playing catchup and unfortunately, they've lost about 20 days at this point.

LEMON: Yes. They've lost a lot of time. I got to ask you as a former GSA administrator, as you were sitting by watching this, what was going through your head?

ROTH: My concern and focus are and always has been on the American people. The idea the presidential transition process is for smooth operations and continuity of government. It's both -- its focus is how do we ensure that the American people are getting the service and the security and that their health is being taken care of and that those major issues that are American policy issues are being dealt with.

And to have disruptions in that and by the uncertainty that was created, it's truly unfortunate. And that's what I was watching.

LEMON: I'm sure you were. They're going to have to work, as you said, really extra hard and extra fast right now to catch up those 20 days that they lost. Linda Turner Roth, the former administrator, GSA administrator under President Barack Obama. Denise Turner. I'm sorry. I don't know why I call you Linda. I was thinking of someone. Denise Turner Roth.

ROTH: It's a good name. It's fine.

LEMON: Thank you so much. You have a fantastic Thanksgiving. Thank you so much.

ROTH: Thank you. Same to you, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you, thank you. The president says he's going to keep fighting but today another key state certified its election results showing a clear Biden win.

[22:30:05]

We're going to go to Michigan and we're going to speak with Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The GSA is issuing its letter to President-elect Biden about beginning the transition after a day of setbacks for the current president as he tries to overturn the results of this election, including Michigan officially certifying Biden as the winner in that state, awarding him its 16 electoral votes.

Joining me now Michigan's Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist. Lieutenant Governor, thank you so much. When last we spoke you said you'd get it done, and you did. So, congratulations to you.

LT. GOV. GARLIN GILCHRIST (D-MI): Thank you.

LEMON: Give me your reaction to the GSA finally allowing the transition to formally take place.

GILCHRIST: Don, thank you for having me. Always a pleasure to be here.

[22:34:57]

And I'm proud of absolutely first and foremost the voters of the state of Michigan who spoke with a loud and very clear voice. And I'm proud that the process has been followed and that as I indicated to you before, that I expected the state board of canvassers to do their job and certify the election results, and they did so. And I want to thank the three members who voted to certify. And we are now ready to move forward.

And as, you know, I think as Michigan goes, so goes the country, as we've seen. So, I don't think it's coincidental that as these dominoes continue to fall, including the state of Michigan officially certifying Joe Biden as the decisive winner in our state that, you know, the president's house of cards has fallen.

LEMON: Yes. I just wonder why it was such a problem this time and what his reasoning -- his real reasoning is besides this show that he's putting on and the false assertions that he's making because Michigan certifications, I mean, it's another major setback in his attempt to steal this election. Biden leads by more than 154,000 votes. For comparison, Trump won in 2016 by less than 11,000 votes. So why was this ever in question?

GILCHRIST: It never was in question. It was only a fiction in the president's mind. And it's very difficult, if not impossible to ascribe planning to this administration's effort to try to hold on to power that it lost when the voters rejected them.

So, rather than thinking about them I'm focused on plans that, you know, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are going to be implementing for the rest of the country. You know, we have a pandemic to deal with.

And the Biden -- and the Trump administration isn't dealing with that at all. But the Biden/Harris transition is already working on it. And so we're trying to work with them from Michigan to tell them what we need and what the states need in order to move forward. In terms of economic relief, you know, planning for the vaccine distribution, we have real work to do and governance. The Trump administration hasn't taken it seriously for a very long time. but I'm looking forward to having an administration that will take the business of the people seriously.

LEMON (on camera): Well, listen, remember when there was the Zoom meeting with the electors a week ago and people were outraged and I think it's important for people to see citizens taking action and speaking and having their voices heard. We heard from local officials. We heard from clerks, we heard from others during the public comments at the certification meeting offering up praise to the hardworking people as you did who counted the votes. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER THOMAS, FORMER MICHIGAN DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS: I think it's incredible for the clerks of this state and also of Detroit that they could make a pivot from a 70 percent in-person voting or 75 percent in-person voting environment to close to a 70 percent via mail voting environment in the middle of a pandemic.

DANIEL BAXTER, FORMER DETROIT DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS: No matter what happened on election day, whether or not challengers shouted 'stop the vote' in the TCF Center, whether or not they were violating social distancing rules or whether they stood in the middle of the processing center without their mask on, nothing, and I mean nothing, deterred our poll workers from being engaged. They stayed focused throughout that entire operation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): You hear that, Lieutenant Governor, and then you consider the lengths that this president and his band of whatever you want to call it, they went through to overturn the results, making calls to local GOP officials, meeting Republican Michigan state lawmakers at the White House, also undemocratic.

GILCHRIST: I mean, you know, this makes me think about something that my grandmother taught me and it's that the truth will always defeat lies. The thrashing of this administration, the pulling out of the staffs to try to get any Republican to do his bidding. They can't defeat the people.

The people stood up when the Wayne County board of canvasser Republicans tried to do the wrong thing and they demanded to do the right thing, they followed suit. Those poll workers, those front-line workers protecting and defending our democracy did their jobs to the best of their ability and we thank them for their service.

They showed that we can again, trust people with democracy not trust the Republican Party obviously. And I'm proud about how we're going to move forward. I think this is going to be now an opportunity for us to think about how we can better serve the people of Michigan from an election standpoint. And I think this will only get better. And so, I'm excited about the future of our democracy because Michigan protected it.

LEMON: Lieutenant Governor, thank you. Never know what can happen between now and Thursday, but if I don't see you, happy Thanksgiving. I appreciate you joining.

GILCHRIST: Happy holidays to you, Don. Please stay safe.

LEMON: Yes. You as well.

Well, speaking of staying safe, we have all of this going on while there is a deadly pandemic that is just ravaging the country. More vaccine news today to tell you about -- to tell you about.

[22:40:02]

AstraZeneca announcing their trial's results. But will the transition that should have started weeks ago, is that going to slow anything down? We'll talk about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So now that the GSA is formally beginning the transition team, Biden can finally get access to coronavirus briefings. An official on Biden's transition team telling CNN their most urgent need is to get access to vaccine distribution plans and other COVID data. With cases soaring across this country, lives are in danger.

So, let's discuss now with CNN medical analyst Dr. Larry Brilliant. Dr. Brilliant, a pleasure to have you on. Let's talk about this formal transition process. It should have been done weeks ago with vaccines on the cusp of approval now. What are your biggest challenges -- what will the biggest challenges be for the Biden team?

[22:45:03]

LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALSYT: Thank you, Don. Good to be with you again. Well, right now, you know, you know, we're in this situation where it's the best of worlds and the worst of worlds. The best of worlds because we got three vaccines that are coming out of the hopper and they all look to be good. We have large quantities coming down the pike at exactly the same time that we're at -- I won't say we're at the peak, but we're at one of the peaks of this pandemic.

We've got 80,000 people in the hospital the most we've ever had. We're cruising on towards well over 200,000 cases a day and maybe 2,500 deaths a day. But we've got the vaccines coming. So, we have to be really careful and adroit and work quickly and that requires complete cooperation between the administration. What we needed was a seamless transition so the new team could get ready to distribute the vaccines that the old team brought us. It's like a relay but we're behind the ball right now.

LEMON: Dr. Fauci has said that he would like to meet President-elect Biden's team? When do you expect that to happen and how much can he help this team? Probably immensely, right? BRILLIANT: I expect that to happen right away. I'm sure he'll be one

of the first people that the Biden transition team wants to talk to and he can help immensely because he's been planning this vaccine since the disease was first discovered.

I think we're going to do really well with getting a vaccine distributed. I like what the national academy panel on equitable distribution of the vaccine has done. Calling out who's the most needy to get the vaccinations first and what that cadence will be. Now that we will have an ethical White House, I think we'll follow that plan.

And so, I'm really optimistic that while this Thanksgiving, I hope people will stay at home with their nuclear family, virtual Thanksgivings and maybe have two Thanksgivings next year. I think next year is going to look so much better.

LEMON: Well, listen, as far as I'm concerned, Thanksgiving could be in April or May. I just decide to tell my family this is Thanksgiving. I'm bringing you all up and we're going to celebrate it in May or June or July instead of celebrating it -- it doesn't have to be, you know, in November.

Let's talk about one of these vaccines, though. AstraZeneca announcing that its coronavirus vaccine showing an average effectiveness of 70 percent in large scale trials, even more depending on the dosing regimen. Can you walk us through that? What does all that, what does that mean?

BRILLIANT: Yes, I mean, the vaccine efficacy of course is what will expect that people who were vaccinated what percent of them will not get the disease if they're exposed to the disease. And AstraZeneca had to do two trials. Remember they had a little hiccup in their trial early where there was an unexplained illness.

So, in one of their trials the efficacy was 90 percent. In another, it was about 60 percent per rule they have to average those. That's what they said 70 percent. But I'm optimistic they'll be able to reach that 90 percent by tweaking the formula for distribution.

LEMON: I was going to ask you -- can I step in and ask you a question there?

BRILLIANT: All right.

LEMON: Because you said 90 and then 90 --

BRILLIANT: of course.

LEMON: -- and then 60 percent, right. So, 90 and 60 percent, I just want to be cognizant we have a bit of a delay here. So, they have to average it in but I would imagine when they got the lower one or what have you, I'm not sure how it happened, they went back and tweaked it and I think that's where you were going. So, you think the efficacy is probably higher than the 70 percent average that is given. Go on. Am I wrong? BRILLIANT: No, you're not wrong. But they didn't tweak the vaccine.

They tweaked the schedule of dosing of the vaccine. The 90 percent they got by giving a half a dose in the first of the two doses and then giving a full dose. And perhaps they discovered even through that process the better way to use that vaccine.

There are a lot of other really good things about the AstraZeneca vaccine. It doesn't require an inordinate amount of freezing and therefore it can be transported to places that don't have these freezers. It makes it a better vaccine to be used as a global vaccine.

And we're going to have to work with our friends at the World Health Organization, because if any country has COVID, then all countries have it. So, we're going to have to have vaccines that have different kind of characteristics for different communities and different purposes.

LEMON: Yes. Well, that's what you said. That's what I meant by tweak. You just said it better and that's why you're Dr. Brilliant. Thank you, doctor. Happy Thanksgiving. It's a pleasure.

[22:50:04]

BRILLIANT: Happy Thanksgiving, my friend. It's always good to see you.

LEMON: You as well. So, take this. Even though we're clearly still in the middle of a pandemic the White House is planning on hosting holiday parties.

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LEMON (on camera): How many super spreader events have we seen being held, we witnessed being held at the White House? That's why I want -- I want you to take this. It is the beginning of the holiday season at the White House but are parties really a smart idea during the worsening of a COVID-19 pandemic and considering the reputation that has come out of that White House, so many people testing positive after going to events there?

[22:55:08]

The First Lady Melania Trump on hand as the White House Christmas tree was delivered today. The Trumps are planning to hold Christmas and Hanukah celebrations but say guest lists will be smaller this year, masks will be required, social distancing will be encouraged. Encouraged social distancing at holiday parties? OK. Good luck with that. Even President -- even President Trump's own surgeon general is a bit skeptical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Well, we want everyone to understand that these holiday celebrations can be super spreader events. So we want them to be smart and we want them as small as possible. But again, go to cdc.gov. Look at those tips for everyone. These apply to the White House. They apply to the American people. They apply to everyone. We want you to stay safe so we can get to a vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): As I said, the White House is a bad track record. It's a super spreader location. That Rose Garden ceremony in late September where the president nominated Amy Coney Barrett for the Supreme Court resulted in at least a dozen people testing positive for COVID-19, including the president and the first lady.

And then there was the election night gathering at the East Room of the White House, another, another super spreader events. Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Housing Secretary Ben Carson among those testing positives for COVID right after. And now we have learned that Donald Trump, Jr. has tested positive.

I understand that this is, you know, the last holiday season for the Trumps in the White House. But parties are not a good idea when nearly 200,000 Americans are testing positive on a daily basis. More than a quarter million have already died. And many of them members in your own family, Mr. Trump, including you and the first lady have tested positive.

And as the Trumps are planning, making plans for their last holiday season at the White House Joe Biden is getting the go ahead tonight to formally begin his transition. Stay with us.

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