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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Pardons Mike Flynn; Joe Biden With His Message Of Unity; Trump Can't Move On With His Loss; Trump Looking To Pardon More; Families Fall In Line At Food Banks; Warning Fell On Deaf Ears. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 25, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): Man, we know we got that election, we elected that guy. Here's what we did with those machines. Nobody has said that. What does that tell you?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: You --
LEMON: It didn't happen because he can't get people to do that.
CUOMO: You are exactly right. I'll even make it more simple there, double O (ph) Don. This is what would be happening, is the Pennsylvania legislatures who are Republicans and Trumpers would be coming out with the proof of their own problems.
LEMON: Right, yes.
CUOMO: And here's how crazy it is. Trump has gone to the Pennsylvania legislatures to complain about the law that they voted to pass that helped them win. They did well on the Republican side in state in Pennsylvania and on the Congress side on the Republican Party side.
So, he's the only one who's complaining. So, this conspiracy was only against him and at the same time designed to help Republicans in Congress and in the state legislature where he's now complaining.
LEMON: It was rigged, it was stolen. By the way, where was Sidney Powell today?
CUOMO: I couldn't tell them that (Inaudible) --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Part of the Trump dream team, what happened?
CUOMO: -- that they had. Do you see how spooky that was?
LEMON: Man, I did. Listen, we're laughing about it, but it's really --
CUOMO: Got to mock it.
LEMON: It's really concerning.
CUOMO: Got to mock it.
LEMON: But you have to call it out. You're right. You're right. And I'm going to be Chris Cuomo right now because you also have to call it out because there are people who are buying into this saying. My gosh, aren't you guys covering it? I said, aren't you watching Chris right now? He's covering it right now. Maybe not covering the conspiracy in the way that you want to hear it --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Seventy percent of that party believes it was stolen.
LEMON: -- what we're definitely covering it for what it is.
CUOMO: Seventy percent.
LEMON: They want to believe it was stolen. Maybe it's the same thing, I don't know.
CUOMO: Well, I mean, you know, feelings over facts.
LEMON: We're not talking turkey.
CUOMO: We're not talking turkey.
LEMON: We're not talking turkey.
CUOMO: Should we tell them about our latest chapter in our friendship? I guess it means more to me than it does to you. Tomorrow.
LEMON: What are we, like getting married or something?
CUOMO: Stop dreaming.
LEMON: Thanksgiving.
CUOMO: Yes. Stop dreaming.
LEMON: Yes. Well, who's buying the turkey?
CUOMO: This guy. You know, we had an expression where I grew up. And I used it on Trump the other night but I'll use it on Don now. With friends like Don, who needs animus?
LEMON: All right. I'm going on that.
CUOMO: We're doing Thanksgiving outside.
LEMON: I'll see you. I'll see you tomorrow.
CUOMO: And Don and I are going to do it together because you couldn't travel, we couldn't be with family to do that.
LEMON: We've been seeing each other. We -- yes, but we've been seeing each other the entire time and your entire family has had it.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: We're seeing each other in the backyard.
CUOMO: Yes. But we're doing it the right way.
LEMON: And so, it's going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But at least we'll be together and we're doing it outside. It's going to be a little rainy but we got an area that's covered and stuffed. look, it's not going to be great. It's not going to be what we dreamed of for Thanksgiving, but we're going to be thankful for who we have and what we have. Just don't wear that.
LEMON: Yes, that's true. I want my mom to come up and I want to come up for the holiday. She won't do it. She haven't been around to any of us.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: No. It's just not worth it.
LEMON: She won't leave her house.
CUOMO: It's not worth it, man.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You know, we were talking about --
LEMON: And I work with you every night. I see you in the building.
CUOMO: Yes. And look --
LEMON: I see you in the building every night. I work with you every night.
CUOMO: And we get tested and I have to keep up my antibody stuff to see if it's there so that I can do the plasma thing if they still want me to do it more, but it's not worth the risk, brother. It's just not worth it. God forbid, like that guy I just had on. His dad is 99, they have the birthday party. All of them get sick. It's not worth the risk.
LEMON: This is what I'm going to have on, though.
CUOMO: Yes, whatever covers your mouth is fine. I'd rather you put it in your mouth. Maybe I'll put an apple in there. Have a good show. I love you, Don Lemon.
LEMON (on camera): This is going - I've got to get to the -- you're nuts. That's all I'm saying. I'll see you. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Everyone who's at home going, what the hell is going on.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. I'm so glad that you could join us. I've got to say that we haven't seen anything like this in, really, four years. We really haven't. We expected, you know, a day of stark contrast and, boy, did we ever get one.
The President-elect Joe Biden in a Thanksgiving address to the country imploring Americans to do their part in the battle against the virus, stressing science over politics and urging the country to dream again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I believe that this grim season of division, demonization is going to give way to a year of light and unity. Why do I think so? Because America is a nation not of adversaries, but of neighbors. Not of limitations, but of possibilities. Not of dreams deferred, but dreams realized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And with the pandemic ravaging the country, the president-elect calling on Americans to remember that we are at war with the virus, not with each other.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:04:56]
BIDEN: We fought a nearly year-long battle with the virus that has devastated this nation, that has brought us pain and loss and frustration, and has cost so many lives, 260,000 Americans and counting. This divided us, angered us, set us against one another. I know the country is growing weary of the fight, but we need to remember we're at war with the virus, not with one another, not with each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And then there is this moment of real feeling and empathy for more than 260,000 American families, families who are mourning the loss of loved ones on the eve of Thanksgiving with the CDC now projecting up to 321,000 deaths by November 19th -- December 19th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: For those who have lost a loved one, I know that this time of year can be especially difficult, believe me. I know. I remember that first Thanksgiving, the empty chair, the silence. It takes your breath away. It's really hard to care. It's hard to give thanks. It's hard to even think of looking forward. It's so hard to hope. I understand. I'll be thinking and praying for each and every one of you at this Thanksgiving, at your Thanksgiving table because we've been there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): The president-elect who's been there, praying for the people who will lead in just 56 days. Contrast that with the current president. The current president acting like he knows he's on his way, pardoning his disgraced first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who, not once, but twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his conversations with Russia during the transition, a country that, and I probably don't have to remind you, had just interfered in the election that made Donald Trump president.
And this may not be the last we hear about pardons, by the way. Political dirty trickster and Trump crony Roger Stone convicted a year ago of lying to Congress and witness tampering now says he hopes the president will grant him a full pardon after Trump commuted his sentence this summer. Like I said, quite a contrast. At almost exactly the same time though, the president-elect was saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Our democracy was tested this year. What we learned is this. The people of this nation are up to the task. In America we have full and fair and free elections. And then we honor the results. The people of this nation and the laws of the land won't stand for anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: At almost the exactly same time the President of the United States was still trying to subvert the will of the people, refusing to accept the fact that he lost the election, praising Rudy Giuliani's lies as he called into a phony voter fraud event. The president called in to make it clear to this event in Pennsylvania.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This election was rigged and we can't let that happen. We can't let it happen for our country and this election has to be turned around. This is going to be your crowning achievement because you're saving our country.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): The fact is Joe Biden got 8,026,721 votes, the most votes of any candidate in history -- 80,000, I should say. The most votes of any candidate in history. How many times do I have to say that, 80 million, excuse me, 80 million votes. The president got 73,890,295 votes. That is a difference of 6,136,426 votes.
You know what that is otherwise known as? A landslide for Joe Biden. But the president continues trying to fight a war that he's already lost, meeting tonight at the White House with those Pennsylvania Republicans.
He had to scrap a planned appearance at today's event after news broke that Rudy Giuliani was exposed to another person who had tested positive for the virus. One of Trump's campaign advisers, Boris Epshteyn, remember him? Use to appear in this network.
Epshteyn is part of Giuliani's clown car full of lying lawyers throwing around wild accusations at that press conference last week, now testing positive for the virus. As has Giuliani's son, Andrew. But that didn't stop the man who was once known as America's mayor
from taking off his mask at a crowded indoor event where CNN estimates 80 to 90 percent of those attending were not wearing masks. He put it back on again later.
[22:10:03]
But he's not the only one acting like the virus has already killed more than 260,000 Americans is no big deal. Just no big deal, 260,000 Americans dead. The White House proclamation for Thanksgiving specifically encouraging Americans to gather at homes and places of worship to give thanks, encouraging to us gather in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
As the CDC is pleading with Americans to stay home this Thanksgiving. Those pleas falling on deaf ears in a whole lot of places. I want you to take a look at this.
This is from the New York Times, Americans who live in states won by the president were on average more likely to say they plan to have Thanksgiving with people outside their household.
That as states across the country are battling a deadly surge of the virus. Texas setting a record for single-day COVID case increases, more than 14,000 new cases. And Texas Senator Ted Cruz? Well, he cares more about defending the right to eat turkey with a crowd than he does about the lives of his own constituents.
El Paso County using mobile morgues now. Food lines are getting longer and longer. This is the reality for millions and millions of Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: We're all struggling and I appreciate north Texas helping us out.
UNKNOWN: I haven't been working since December, March, May.
UNKNOWN: I can't find a job. They cut out my unemployment. It's a big deal. It's a real big deal.
UNKNOWN: Thank you. Merry Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Unemployment, hunger, a rising death toll and the President of the United States just ignoring the pain of millions of Americans. I said there was a contrast today between the president and the president-elect. And this, this says it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I believe you always deserve to hear the truth, hear the truth from your president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president is pardoning like he is running out of time, which he is, while Joe Biden is promising America will beat the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I know we can and we will beat this virus. America is not going to lose this war. We'll get our lives back. Life is going to return to normal, I promise you. This will happen. This will not last forever.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): In his Thanksgiving message, President-elect Joe Biden calling on Americans to come together to fight the virus and not each other. While President Trump as he prepares to leave office grants a full pardon to his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.
I want to bring in now CNN White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins, also political correspondent M.J. Lee, and presidential historian Douglas Brinkley.
Hello and happy Thanksgiving to one and all.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Hey.
LEMON: I'm so happy to see both of you.
Kaitlan, let's see, I'll start with you. President Trump pardoning his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn. This is someone who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. I'm wondering if this is another side that Trump -- sign that Trump knows that he is on his way out.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it absolutely is, because you heard the president today insisting that he's won this election, that Democrats lost. Of course, that's not true. And in his actions, you can see how the president is actually viewing things. Because he does know he's on the way out the door. That's why he's pardoning Michael Flynn who has had such a lasting impact on the Trump administration.
You might forget he was only the national security adviser for 24 days. But of course, the president at the time said he was firing him because he lied to Vice President Mike Pence for lying about his contacts with then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, though of course, we later learned he pleaded guilty twice to lying to the FBI about those contacts during that presidential transition period.
The same kind of one we're in right now with Joe Biden and his team. And so, to see this saga end in this way is just really remarkable given the fact that the Justice Department tried to drop its own case into Michael Flynn earlier this year. That was a really shocking twist after he tried to disavow those guilty pleas. And so this is how it is coming to an end. It's not surprising, Don,
because the president telegraphed that he was going to do this, but it is still remarkable to see the president pardoning his own first national security adviser.
LEMON: Are we going to see more of these?
COLLINS: I think so. If you talk to sources around the president, they say expect more pardons potentially, commutations to come. Look for people like George Papadopoulos, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone who had a sin he has commuted he might get a pardon.
Charlie Kushner, Jared Kushner's father, of course. You know, there are several people who are on the president's list that could happen over the next several weeks while he is still in office. And you're right, it is a sign he understands behind closed doors that his time is coming to an end because that's why he's making moves like this.
LEMON: All right. M.J., so President Trump is ignoring the pandemic now while president-elect Biden is urging Americans to recommit to fighting the virus. Talk to me about Biden's Thanksgiving message, will you?
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, this was another incredibly vivid contrast between the sitting president and the president-elect. A sitting president who is not conceding and continuing to sow doubt on the election, and the president-elect, who is giving this national address before the Thanksgiving holiday, basically urging calm and a sense of national unity.
And this was an incredibly empathetic speech, right. He said that he understands what it is like to look around your dinner table and see that there is somebody missing at the table. He was obviously referring to so many Americans who have lost loved ones through this coronavirus pandemic.
And then just really emphasizing and urging people to please be responsible, that he gets that people are getting weary, that they're getting impatient, that this has been going on for so long.
[22:20:04]
But that especially as we wait for a vaccine to start being distributed, that we are basically almost there and that this isn't forever. Take a listen to a little bit of his speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I'm hoping the news of the vaccine will serve as an incentive to every American to take these simple steps to get control of the virus. There's real hope, tangible hope. So, hang on. Don't let yourself surrender to the fatigue, which I understand it is real fatigue.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEE: And it's worth noting that Biden himself is going to be skipping his own family tradition. You know, he said for so many years we have had the tradition of traveling so that we could have a big family gathering on Thanksgiving Day. But he's not doing that this year either, like so many families who are also not going to be able to partake in their usually traditions.
He and his wife are staying here in Delaware. They're just going to be have -- having a very small gathering. And he's basically urging other American families to do the same.
LEMON: Douglas, I want to bring you in and ask you about the President-elect Biden delivering a passionate and somber message ahead of Thanksgiving, while the current president is pardoning his cronies and playing games. The contrast -- I mean, it's just so obvious. It's night and day.
BRINKLEY: It's completely night and day. And you know, Joe Biden did an excellent job today. He had a tough task. It reminded me of when, you know, John F. Kennedy got assassinated and a few days later, Lyndon Johnson gave a Thanksgiving prayer to the nation and he wasn't quite like I'm not the real president but our country has to be very mournful.
And so, I think Joe Biden kept a mournful tone. But then at the end of the speech today he rang the bell of optimism and he spoke throughout about from George Washington to, you know, we're all in it together from FDR, he quoted Martin Luther King, Jr. in scripture.
He was trying to do a fine balance because really, he's like a war- time president-elect now, that we are at war with COVID-19 and he's got to convince people to get people on board, social distance, wear the mask.
By contrast, Donald Trump made a fool out of himself. I mean, this is Gettysburg, the place of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. And here it is right before Thanksgiving and Donald Trump is doing a call-in with Rudy Giuliani and people there saying it's rigged, it's rigged, it's rigged.
It was an embarrassing performance by the president and Joe Biden came off as a very class act and a very difficult Thanksgiving season for us.
LEMON: Hey, Douglas, you talked a little bit about history. Let's talk a little more. I want you to put Biden's speech into perspective. How have other presidents steered the country during difficult times?
BRINKLEY: Yes. You know, you tend to think, you know, that it's been around forever, this, you know, the Thanksgiving holiday. Washington did it as a proclamation. But FDR really used Thanksgiving as a way to unify the country at wartime.
You might recall, Don, a famous Norman Rockwell painting of the four freedoms and showing freedom from one, showing like a Thanksgiving dinner at a table. And so, there's nothing more American, the holiday. I did think Joe Biden missed an opportunity to perhaps mention Native
American history today. He still has a name for secretary of interior, which would be a historic the Native American to a cabinet position, but there was no kind of recognition of the role and, you know, the pilgrims meet the new world and the native indigenous people commentary. I hope down the line he lives up to his campaign promises for native people.
LEMON: Yes. Kaitlan, I want to talk to you more about this farce that the president is engaging in. I mean, he met with Pennsylvania Republicans at the White House tonight. He's calling into these, you know, crazy displays of Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis. What is going on?
COLLINS: Yes, he was actually supposed to go to that hearing as they're calling it today in Pennsylvania. It got scrapped, and so instead he invited these lawmakers, as you can see them there, they were coming into the West Wing earlier. We watched them.
And they came into this meeting with the president. They did not invite reporters in, but this was this hearing that they called it on accusations of voter fraud where basically you heard a lot of what you heard from the president and his allies over the last several days trying to dispute the results even though Pennsylvania is finalizing its election results.
Of course, Joe Biden has won by a significant margin there, and it's undisputed. That is the thing. But the president and his allies are repeatedly trying to portray it as otherwise. And that's what the president did today.
[22:24:58]
It's come to these situations where last week you saw that press conference that Rudy Giuliani held with an attorney for Mike Flynn who the campaign later distanced themselves from, and it ranged from that to the president today being patched in on speaker phone with someone just holding up a phone to a microphone so the president could address those lawmakers from Pennsylvania there, the Republicans.
And it's a situation where the president is insisting, he won this election, and of course, Don, we know he didn't. And to see it contrast not just with reality but what his own government is doing, because the federal government is moving forward with the position.
Joe Biden is going to get the president's daily brief next week. His team is already speaking with several different agencies throughout the Trump administration. It's happening whether the president likes it or not, but he still has not publicly acknowledged it and he still hasn't taken a question from reporters since the day of the election.
LEMON: Yes. It's surreal, but it's very dangerous what he's doing because a lot of people are believing the nonsense. And it is a total, a total conspiracy theory.
Thanks to all of you. Happy Thanksgiving, one and all. Be safe. BRINKLEY: Thank you, Don. Thanks.
LEMON: The mother of all super spreader events and impending calamity, doctors sound the alarm over what could happen with the coronavirus this Thanksgiving as the U.S. reports the deadliest day of the pandemic since the first week of May.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This is really unbelievable. We have some breaking news that just in minutes ago. The new ensemble forecast from the CDC projecting there could before up to 321,000 deaths from the coronavirus. This is, I think, as of December 19th that can happen.
Today over 178,000 people were diagnosed with the virus, and over 2,200 people have lost their lives. That's today. With more than 89,000 people in the hospital right now, we've now set records for hospitalizations for the 16th day in a row.
And take a look at this. This is a time lapse of air travel throughout the day today. Look at all that. Despite CDC guidance not to travel for Thanksgiving, air traffic is hitting levels that we have not seen in months.
Joining me now is CNN medical analyst Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, and Joe Allen. Joe Allen is an assistant professor of exposure assessment science at Harvard and the author of "Healthy Buildings," and he joins us -- both of them join us once again.
I was telling you on the break, Dr. Compton-Phillips, we spoke very early on you and predicted all of this. And now, sadly it has come to pass and now we have these alarming new numbers from the CDC. Thanksgiving hasn't even really happened yet. Millions of people are already traveling.
AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It is a frightening time and, in fact, you know, I think December is going to be just a really difficult month for all of us to get through. And the challenge is that we get such mixed messages from leadership.
You know, do we listen to the CDC? Do we not listen to the CDC? Do we wear a mask? Do we not wear a mask? And so, having some consistent messages come out that really help us put this behind us, help us get through December, is going to be really critically important.
LEMON: Yes. Well, listen. Listen, the CDC guidance, it is guidance from the CDC. It's not like, a mandatory you cannot travel, otherwise people would not be allowed, the airports would be shutting down. But it's guidance. But I'm wondering is this a recipe for, sadly, more cases, more infections, and even deaths?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: It is a recipe for more cases and death. And you've seen the conversations that people have. Some people just don't believe that this is real or don't believe that it's nearly as impactful as it is.
And I have to tell you, yesterday I spent my day modeling out how many refrigerated morgue trucks we need to put at our hospitals and how many racks we have to put in them because we know this is real. And how horrible is it to figure out how many additional morgue refrigeration trucks you have to have, it's awful.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, Joe, the reason we have you on, you talk about these healthy buildings. And you actually design buildings, you know, that are healthier, that have better ventilation, that can help when there's a pandemic or there is a disease that is spread through droplets, and so on and so forth.
I understand you have been looking into the dangers of having even small gatherings in enclosed spaces. Tell us about that and if people are really going to do it, what are the things -- if they're going to do it, what are the things that they can do to minimize the risk?
JOE ALLEN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF EXPOSURE ASSESSMENT SCIENCE, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Yes. I'm really concerned about Thanksgiving for this reason, that most people don't realize our homes don't breathe very much. We choked off the air supply.
And the term we use to think about this is something called the air changes -- how many air changes per hour you get in a typical home. And it's about .5 air changes per hour. That means it takes about two hours for the full volume of air in your house to breathe.
Now, for reference, for schools, we're recommending four to six air changes per hour, ten times higher. Point five air changes per hour which is typical in a home is not enough to prevent the spread of this virus through the air.
And I want to give you a sense of what that looks like. I'm in my home and I'm measuring carbon dioxide right now. We're the main source of carbon dioxide indoors. And if the levels are high or low it can tell us how well our homes are ventilated.
So, look at this number right here. My home right now is 1,800 parts per million of carbon dioxide. You want this below 1,000 parts per million on a normal day. During a pandemic, we want this under 800 parts per million.
[22:35:00]
So, I've done the math on this, it's 0.3 air changes per hour. This is typical. This is typical, this is what you will find in almost every home across the U.S. Now, it's not an issue in my home right now because I'm just with my immediate family. But I would never, I would never have people over in my house with these conditions.
If I simply open up the window an inch or two, these levels in my office will drop down below 800 parts per million. So really simple, if you're going to have people over, first, we should not be right now. If you're going to do it, open up those windows a bit, wear a mask at all times when you're not actively eating or drinking. If you have a portable air cleaner with a heap filter, use it. A
portable humidifier, use it. This is not the time to have long, loud conversations at the dinner table with everybody. Spread out. We all have to do our part here because we've seen the science here that what we're heading into is not going to be good and our homes are just not the places where we can handle a lot of people. It will lead to spread if someone is sick and infectious in your home.
LEMON: Wow. Thank you. I'm glad you did that so people can see. But I mean, really, think about this, Joe and doctor. If you, you know, if you burn something or if you're cooking something and there's smoke, right, it lingers in the air in your home for a long time when you have to open up all the doors and windows.
So, I mean, I would just -- I would think that there is -- that's a comparable demonstration to how long particles can just linger in the air before they flow out of your home. Am I wrong, Joe, before I get back to the doctor?
ALLEN: Yes, it's a great way to think about it. Like cigarette smoke indoors if someone is smoking indoors, all the windows are closed up or you burn something, so it's going to take a long time to smell that for that to dissipate.
Now, the other thing, right, if you have all windows and doors open, you're actually increasing that air exchange rate, and that will dissipate any airborne particles that carry this virus. So really critical and absolutely you should be wearing a mask indoors.
LEMON: So, doctor, members of President-elect Joe Biden's transition team met with officials from Operation Warp Speed and the Department of Health and Human Services. What's their top priority to be ready to take over on day one right away?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, it's really making sure that that vaccine gets distributed because that is essential for us to actually get our lives back, right? We can do a better job at getting our lives back by everybody wearing a mask and social distancing and minimizing interactions, but we really fully get back to ourselves when that vaccine is distributed. And it is hard, it's really implicated complicated getting that vaccine everywhere, so we're looking forward to that one.
LEMON: I want you to both be safe and I want you to have a very happy Thanksgiving. I'm so glad you could join us on Thanksgiving eve to give all of this information to our viewers. Thank you so much.
ALLEN: Have a good Thanksgiving, Don. Thanks.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you.
President Trump pardons Michael Flynn who twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. Is it a sign of what's to come during the president's final weeks in office?
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the president announcing that he's going to -- he's pardoning his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn. The White House claiming Flynn is an innocent man even though he twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.
Joining me now is former deputy assistant Attorney General, Larry -- Harry Litman. I get my mouth to work tonight, Harry. Good to see you. It's been a while. How are you?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, I'm well. Thank you, how are you doing?
LEMON: Good. I'm doing very well. Do you think this was an abuse of the president's pardoning power, Harry?
LITMAN: I mean, it was a profound abuse. It's not just the kind of abuse that we saw, say, with sheriff Joe where he gives a goodie bag to a crony. This is more deeply self-serving than that. It's part of this ongoing effort to rewrite the entire Mueller probe and to paint -- to whitewash history's verdict of him, Donald Trump.
So the screed on White House stationery is really a narrative about him, Trump, and it goes back to the obstruction involved in trying to get Jim Comey and then later Don McGahn, an important figure here we will still hear from, to corruptly drop the prosecution against Flynn, who as you say, not only pleaded guilty but laid out all the facts and agreed to them for why he was guilty. And it was not a trivial crime. He really damaged the national security.
LEMON: At one point, Harry, Flynn was cooperating with Robert Mueller, but then he stopped.
LITMAN: Right.
LEMON: Was that a sign that this pardon was inevitable because suddenly he's not doing anything? Was that a sign?
LITMAN: It was a sign that he was gaming for it, including his firing his counsel and bringing on, who? Sidney Powell, the same counsel who was, you know, kicked off the island by Rudy Giuliani this last weekend.
But yes, he changed his tactics completely and it was an out and out play for a pardon, possibly even connected with conversations between counsel that we don't know about. But it was a strategic move by a guilty man. And you know what? It worked out for him. He made the right calculation hoping that the corrupt president would see it his way and see that granting him, Flynn, a pardon, would work to Trump's own advantage.
LEMON: We're told that the president is considering multiple pardons. Who do you think could be next on his list? Roger Stone already said today that he's hoping for one.
[22:45:06]
LITMAN: Yes. So, he would want one. Manafort is a big-ticket item here.
LEMON: Right.
LITMAN: You know, this is one aspect of it that's odd, Don. And the actual pardon is not up yet. All we have is the self-serving but completely unofficial statement on White House stationery, but it's odd because normally a president does a sort of flurry of pardons just in leaving.
And why he would want to sort of sequence them out is a bit puzzling. But definitely Stone, Manafort, you know, all the rogue's gallery that was most connected with Trump's own behavior in the Mueller probe and the impeachment. They're the ones who would be most likely to get the benefit of his large ass on the way out.
LEMON: I think it's important we have to remind the viewers, we have to remember that the attorney general Barr took, really, the unprecedented step of trying to dismiss Flynn's conviction after he pled guilty. And now his DOJ is trying to appeal a recent ruling against Trump which said the DOJ can't represent him in that defamation suit from E. Jean Carroll.
How damaging is it that the Justice Department continues to try to act like the president's personal attorney, Harry?
LITMAN: Yes. Well, and that was the hope here that they could have it play out in time so that Trump wouldn't have to play the pardon card, one fewer mark on his legacy. But if there wasn't going to be enough time because it still is with Sullivan, so that was one of the things that caused career people to abandon ship and, you know, really accuse the department of a kind of favoritism that we just haven't seen before. That's front and center for Biden now as he thinks about a new attorney general. How damning? Very damning.
LEMON: Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, Harry, thank you so much.
LITMAN: Same to you, Don. Good to see you.
LEMON: Yes. People across the country forced to line up in Great Depression-style food lines as the pandemic makes its -- makes it harder and harder for many Americans just to get by. How one Ohio mom with six kids is trying to make ends meet and get the most out of this very difficult Thanksgiving.
[22:50:00]
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LEMON: Listen. I'm sure you know this. This has hit home for a lot of people. This is a tough Thanksgiving for so many American families. Millions of people have lost their jobs in this pandemic, and that means millions of Americans are reaching out to food banks and pantries. They need help. And joining me now is Laura Horsburgh. She is an Ohio mom raising six
kids with her husband. And they are receiving food assistance like so many other Americans.
Laura, thank you so much for joining, sharing your story. There is no shame in it. There's lots of people who are dealing with the same thing that you're dealing with. I just want to know how are you and your family and your husband are doing? I understand your husband is a house painter, right, but the virus --
LAURA HORSBURGH, FAMILY RECEIVING FOOD ASSISTANCE DURING PANDEMIC: Yes.
LEMON: -- is really hurting his business. Talk to me about what's going on with you and your family, please.
HORSBURGH: Well, since the whole pandemic kind of started, things have just been kind of harder for us. I mean, we've utilized all the food pantries and assistance and certain times of our -- we've had certain times of our life that we've needed them. But when this hit, it was like pretty hard.
And actually, the one like food assistance that we've been receiving is actually through the Parma (Ph) school and it's also paired with the Cleveland food bank. It's been really, really helpful. I don't know what we would have done like all summer long without it. And going into the fall and into winter. It's just been -- and if anything, we've had for help here and there, this has been so helpful for us. The kids enjoy it. Yes.
LEMON: What would you do -- you mean, listen. And you know that some of the supplies have been low because we have a food bank near our home that we work with. And the supplies have really been low. The demand has been really high.
Have you -- do you -- have you noticed any shortages, and what is -- any shortages? And is there, do you always -- are you always able to get the food that you need and the families who may be suffering and maybe need help around you as well?
HORSBURGH: You know, during the whole -- during the pandemic, when it first started, we were, you know, I was able to get in right away as it started getting harder for more and more people. They've actually expanded the food pickups to twice a week and then through the summer -- through the summer.
Now it's getting really hard. I actually missed the last two pickups because they've full -- they've gotten full up so fast. They just -- they can't keep up with the amount of demand for all the things.
LEMON: Yes.
[22:55:01]
HORSBURGH: And it's not just, like, food for what our system does for the school system for the Parma school, and it's really great. They have done things where they've had books donated for the kids. So, like when the kids come with us and we go through the car line, they have like books.
And one time they have local -- they pair with a lot of local area things, a lot of things in Parma. So, we'll get the perogies from a local place and then the money that's funded for that will go to local businesses. Or that fresh fruit and produce. So, that's been really, really nice. But it's hard to get sometimes.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I know. And we so appreciate you for joining us to show the world really that a lot of people are in need right now and that there's help out there and there's more help that is needed.
And so, I wish you and your family the best Thanksgiving. Say hello to your kids and your husband, and we are all thinking about you. And we're wishing you the best as well as millions of families around this country who have fallen on hard times as well. You be well, and thank you for sharing your story, OK?
HORSBURGH: You too. Have a good Thanksgiving.
LEMON: Happy Thanksgiving.
A tale of two presidents. Joe Biden giving a message of leadership, one that is in stark contrast to Donald Trump at a time when the nation is dealing with multiple crises.
Stay with us.
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