Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

GOP Not Acknowledging Biden's Win; Dr. Scott Atlas Resigns; Trump's Attorney Suggests Killing Chris Krebs?; Joe Biden Offers An Olive Branch To Republicans; COVID-19 Vaccine Coming Out To The Public; Moderna's Participant Felt OK With The COVID Vaccine Shot. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired November 30, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. So, look, it was Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was hard. I didn't see my mom. I didn't see my siblings. I know it was hard for a lot of people, but now there's a reset. And the Christian calendar is actually helpful here. Advent season. A lot of you will identify with that Let's begin with "CNN TONIGHT" and D. Lemon. That is the Advent of Don Lemon has already arrived.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You didn't see me?

CUOMO: But --

LEMON: You didn't tell me them you didn't see me.

CUOMO: You know, you're like a, you know, you're a mystery. You know, you're a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

LEMON: When you kept -- when you called me you kept calling me on Saturday, you know where I was? On my roof putting Christmas lights up like Frank, was it Frank Griswold who is the guy from the vacation?

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: That was me.

CUOMO: Do you have any pictures of yourself on the roof?

LEMON: No, but I got pictures of lights. I don't want to put them on the internet but I'll show you. All you got to do is drive by my house you'll see it.

CUOMO: I'm sure that there are lights on your house, Don.

LEMON: No, but the lights -- but this was in the backyard. I put lights on the little shed in the backyard.

CUOMO: I believe you put lights on the shed.

LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: I do not believe you put lights on your house.

LEMON: No, I did not put -- yes, I did. I put a wreath. I was on the ladder.

CUOMO: No, wreath are not lights. I'm talking about lights upon the roof and around the window. I don't think you did that.

LEMON: I didn't. I got as close to it as possible. I did the wreath on the house way up on the second floor. And I did lights on the tree, on two trees, all the way up. Yes, I work. I borrowed my neighbor's fancy landscaper, I borrowed his ladder, you know, won't even fit in the yard and rent a regular truck. I did the whole thing. I was, you know, holiday vacation with, yes, with Griswold.

CUOMO: I've got a gift for you.

LEMON: You do.

CUOMO: I'm going to buy one for each of us actually. Thank you for reminding me.

LEMON: What is it?

CUOMO: They're these amazing ladders that shrink down like these, like three and a half feet but they go up to nine, ten feel.

LEMON: How do you trust that, though?

CUOMO: I trust it. I'll watch you do it first. So, my argument tonight was that --

LEMON: What are you telling me.

CUOMO: -- this is the advent, man. We're in the waiting period.

LEMON: Yes. Yes.

CUOMO: What will Trump do between now and the inauguration is screw things up.

LEMON: Who knows?

CUOMO: To keep sabotaging the transition?

LEMON: A lot.

CUOMO: What would the Republicans do, when will they figure out what they're about again. What will Biden do? He made some big firsts with his picks of women and that empowerment of diversity. But what's going to happen with the vaccine, who can get it? What will we do, because I believe we're entering the worst phase of the pandemic, not because how I feel, but what people are telling me from all over the country.

LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: We are at a breaking point right now and as we saw over

Thanksgiving people are going to do things the wrong way. Maybe for the right reasons, but they're going to do it in the wrong way.

LEMON: Well, all you have to do is look at the science. Look at the science and look at the numbers. It really shows you where we are right now. And also, if you look at the numbers at the airports, people were -- you know, the CDC recommended, there was an advisory, people weren't supposed to travel for the holiday for Thanksgiving. But they set records.

And you can understand people are tired of sitting at home. They're anxious. They've got cabin fever and all of that. But still, I think you need to abide by what the CDC says, what the guidelines are, what Dr. Fauci is saying. Because I don't want people to get lax and say, there's a vaccine coming. And you let your guard down. Right? And then the things get really, really, really bad. You need to prevent as many infections and illnesses and people dying as possible. That's how I feel about it.

CUOMO: Yes, that's the only way to feel it. But the problem is, it's been poisoned.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: It's been politicized. The good news we have with the vaccine is that Trump didn't poison the vaccine because he thought it worked for him.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: So he's telling people take the vaccine. Now you have people who don't like Trump who are saying I'm not going to take the vaccine. I don't trust them. Hopefully we'll be able to work past that. But we've got to get to a better place and what people believe they can do and it's not a political statement, and it's not rewarding the left or rewarding some you like by doing. That's our big problem.

LEMON: Yes. I was told to brush my right eyebrow. I don't know what's going on.

CUOMO: Let me see. All but doesn't fall off. You tape those on, right?

LEMON: Yes, I do.

CUOMO: Anyway.

LEMON: Listen, the poison and what you're saying all playing out now. All with the fake hearings by Giuliani, with the attorney saying all of it, and they're -- as this president is walking out the door, he's trying to poison the well for the next president. But I got a whole thing I want to talk to you about that very subject, talk to the audience about. So, I'm going to run.

CUOMO: I'm listening. D. Lemon. I love you.

LEMON: And I shall see you. You more than you know. I'm telling you. I hear that more than Christina hears that, is that true?

CUOMO: No.

LEMON: Christina --

CUOMO: No, don't flatter yourself.

LEMON: OK.

CUOMO: All right.

LEMON: All right, I don't want to ask.

CUOMO: It's not an unusual love, it's not more love that anybody else gets but I love you.

LEMON: It's not infinite. Yes, it isn't. It is infinite.

CUOMO: Only the dog.

LEMON: It's not finite.

CUOMO: Only the dogs and the kids get infinite love. Do your show, brother, I'm watching.

[22:05:02]

LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for watching.

So, I need to keep telling you this. OK. I got to keep telling you this. Especially now that you're back and things are -- we're back to normal a bit after the holiday. And you may have seen a whole lot of things, probably were having discussions with your relatives around Thanksgiving.

There is no widespread voter fraud. I'm going to say that again. There is no widespread voter fraud. And if you believe that, you're being played. OK? This is the most secure election in our history. The most secure election in our history.

You know how I know that? I know that because the Trump administration told us so. The Trump administration said this is the most secure election in history, that Donald Trump lost and Joe Biden won.

But President Trump, as he watches his one-term as president dwindle down to its final days -- can you imagine how that feels for him. Impeached one-term president. Impeached one-term president. Now lame duck. Imagine how that feels for him.

He's doing all that he can to take down democracy with him. And then he's just going to walk away. And what condition is he going to leave this country in then? Right. Take down democracy, undermine the electoral process and then just walk away.

So just like his disgraced coronavirus advisor Scott Atlas is doing, he's walking away tonight and what condition is the pandemic in now? And so yes, with the pandemic still raging, the current president still holed up in the White House nursing his grievances, still refusing to concede to Joe Biden like a baby, still refusing to do his job, which is lead America through the pandemic, and becoming more and more irrelevant.

It is a joke right now. It's like a bad episode of presidential apprentice. It's getting really old. Like you need to come up with new material. Talk to your producers, man because it's getting old. Nobody is buying it, not even the people who are selling it on television the Trump channel and conservative media. They don't buy it. They're just doing it because they set themselves up, therefore they have to.

How can they tell people Joe Biden is feeble, bad -- the president is going to win? Joe Biden is going to lose. That the election was underscored. And then none of it turns out to be true. It all turns out to be false. So then what do you do? You got to keep up the scam. That's your only alternative unless you just say OK, I did it for the grift. That will never happen.

Because in just 51 days Joe Biden will take the oath of office and all the sore losers lies in the world won't change any of that. But the current president still capable of doing a whole lot of damage to our country.

By his neglect, his mismanagement of the pandemic, his refusal to even mention -- when is the last time you heard him mention the 267,000 Americans who have died. Think about that. It's all about him, me, me, me, me, me. I was wrong, this was rigged, it was stolen from me. Nothing to do. Never talks about the people who have died.

And by his selfish attempts to burn down the foundation of our democracy our free and fair election on his way out. That's what's were being damage by, that's what's happening. Today he is attacking the Republican governors. Republican governors of Arizona and supported him, Republican governors.

By the way a guy has a ring tone for the hail to the chief on his phone. It rang while he was certifying the election. Republican -- the Republican governors in Arizona and Georgia, two states that Joe Biden won fair and square. Georgia is working its way through a recount. Arizona certified results today.

I know, I know. I know you're tired of hearing me talk about him. But he is still the president and he's still doing a lot of damage, so I have to do it. I have to do it. It's important for all of us. And the president's old friends at Fox News, they're apparently on his hit list, too.

[22:09:56]

Look at that. He's going down and he wants to take his own party with him, even though Trump advisors say that he sees the writing on the wall, with Arizona and Wisconsin certifying today. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. But apparently, the president Republicans in Washington, well,

Republicans, I should say, in Washington have forgotten how to read. Mitch McConnell today refusing even to answer a question about whether he considers Joe Biden the president-elect of the United States.

Joe Biden who by any measure resoundingly, resoundingly beat Donald Trump, Biden has 306 electoral votes. Trump has 232. That's the reality. Look, everyone, look. If you believe -- whatever you believe, one plus one equals two. Three hundred six electoral votes beats 232. Therefore, that makes you the president-elect of the United States.

The top Republicans just refuse to say out loud, just refuse to say out loud who is the president-elect of the United States, if Trump has 232 votes. Well, the Senate majority whip John Thune asked by CNN why he won't call Biden the president-elect saying this.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Well, I mean, I don't think that's decided until whenever that is, the 14th of December.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON: Senator John Cornyn refusing to comment on whether Joe Biden is the president-elect.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I really don't feel the need to comment anymore on this. I realize you guys feel like you have to file something on this, but I don't think that's very productive.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON: And par for the course for him, Senator Lindsey Graham with this tonight.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think he should go to Biden's inauguration?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If Biden ends up winning, yes, I think so.

RAJU: Why is that important?

GRAHAM: I think it's good for the country, it'd be good for him. We'll know in December. I hope Biden will come to his.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON: But there are some Republicans who are willing to stand up for the truth. Senator Lisa Murkowski telling CNN this.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI, (R-AK): I think he should concede. I think the race is over.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON: Well, too bad. More of Senator Murkowski's colleagues aren't willing to say that. Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman of Virginia saying this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): Just seems like this is what we do as Americans. It doesn't seem that's that big of a stretch to have a peaceful transition where we're looking at things that are not, that we're looking at things based on fact and not on things that are really fantasy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And then there are the local Republican officials standing up for the facts. Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger blasting what he calls massive amounts of misinformation and going on to say this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: There are those who are exploiting the emotions of many Trump supporters with fantastic claims, half-truths, misinformation and frankly, they're misleading the president as well, apparently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Remember, these are Republicans. Georgia election official Gabriel Sterling, even more blunt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA VOTING SYTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER: The ridiculous things claimed in some of these lawsuits are just that. They're insanity. Fever dream, made up. Internet cabal -- I can't even -- how many ever words I can say how crazy some of these things are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Crazy sounds just about -- that's the right word to say, crazy. Maybe there's a word beyond that that we haven't come up with yet. I'll have to figure it out. This is what people have been telling you for years saying on this network and then all of a sudden here you go.

Now Republicans have to come out and admit it. Before, it was, yes, CNN, no, we're telling you the truth. And now you're dealing with the same stuff that we get to deal with. It's fake, it's not real, it's a hoax. Nope. Real all along. You get to see it now.

There are some heroes out there, though. I want you to listen to a man who you should know, his name is Chris Krebs, he is the former top cyber security official fired by the president who says this about Georgia's secretary of state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER KREBS, DIRECTOR, DHS CYBERSECURITY & INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: Look at Secretary Raffensperber in Georgia, lifelong Republican. He put country before party in his holding a free and fair election in that state. There's some real heroes out there. There's some real patriots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): He's right. And Chris Krebs is a real patriot, too. A man who protected the security of our election, who protected our most sacred right, the right to vote, who was rejected because of Trump's claims of widespread voter fraud.

[22:15:05]

And in a clear sign of just how low team Trump will go, Trump's campaign attorney, Joe DiGenova, I'm sure you've heard of him, called Chris Krebs and I'm quoting here, "a class A moron" and actually went on to say that he should be taken out at dawn and shot.

Yes. Trump's attorney. What the hell kind of world are we living in right now? And for those enabling the president at this point, who continued to look the other way as he lies, who don't call out his smears, who don't push back on his conspiracies. The writing is on the wall. The writing on the wall tells me this, this is the company you now keep right?

We've been trying to tell you. Now all of a sudden, you're in the same position that we were in. That we've been in for years. Trying to tell you the truth. But it's fake. Fake news. And then, but here's what I have to say.

We should not give people participation medals for going their jobs. That's what Republican electorates and all those people in those cities, towns, states, that's what they should be doing all along. And many of them should be speaking out before now, a long time ago. And maybe we would not be in this position where Republicans would -- they wouldn't have to be defending their honor at the last minute as this man walks out the door. He wouldn't be in this position.

Glad you're standing up. But as I say, you should have done that a long time ago because dangerous lie are being peddled by the president about the election. What price will we all pay for that?

Dangerous information about the coronavirus, like the stuff that Dr. Scott Atlas peddled for so long at the president's ear. What is the cost -- that cost us in public lives, in public health? What has that already been? We're going to talk about that next.

But even when they are out of the White House, this country is going to have to find a way to come together around facts and the truth. Listen to what the former President Barack Obama says about that in a new interview with April Ryan. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: All of us are going to have to figure out how do we get back to the point where the truth means something and that, you know, you can't just make stuff up and suddenly half the country believes it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, here's a bit of breaking news we have for you. Now Dr. Scott Atlas resigning his position at the White House, a highly controversial member of the coronavirus task force, questioned the importance of wearing masks. Still the best weapon we have against the virus. And he pushed the controversial concept of herd immunity.

This as the president remains focus not on the pandemic but on his false and destructive claims of fraud in the election that he so clearly lost. The most secure election in American history.

I want to bring in now CNN's White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Good evening to both of you. I hope you had a great thanksgiving.

Dr. Reiner, you first. So, Dr. Atlas is out. Let's talk about the breaking news. He's peddled this dangerous information on herd immunity, questioned masks. At one point he pushed slow testing down. Some of what we heard from him. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT ATLAS, ADVISER, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS VIRUS TASK FORCE: We can allow a lot of people to get infected, those who are not at risk to be -- to die or have a serious hospital requiring illness, we should be fine with letting them get infected, generating immunity on their own and the more immunity in the community, the better we can eradicate the threat of the virus, including the threat to people who are vulnerable. That's what herd immunity is.

We like the fact that there's a lot of cases in low risk populations, because that's exactly how we're going to get herd immunity. Population immunity.

There's no sound science. In fact, I'll say it again. There's no sound science that choose -- that shows that you should have all populations wear masks in all circumstances, quote unquote, if I may quote myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Dr. Reiner, Twitter at one point even removed his tweet saying masks don't work. How much time was wasted here? How many needless deaths were there because of this kind of junk science? JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think it's incalculable.

You know, he understood something that really resonated with the president. He understood that it's easy to convince somebody that you're right when you tell them exactly what they want to hear. And that's what he did with the president.

He told the president exactly what he wanted to hear. He told them that most of the folks in the United States were low risk. He advocated for herd immunity and promoted a really magical bogus notion that you could achieve it with maybe only 25 percent of the population getting infected.

He told the president that we never should have had a goal to prevent college students from becoming infected, because they had no risk. He really completely ignored the fact that we live in multi-generational households, so he ignored the fact that the young who are at relatively low risk would kill their grandparents.

He completely downplayed testing and basically said that if we tested asymptomatic people, we would destroy the work force.

[22:24:57]

As you said, he questioned the efficacy of masks. He told the people of Michigan to rise up against restrictions and mask wearing, and just as a cherry on top, he gave an interview to Russian television. Other than that, it was a for viewer performance in his three months in the White House.

LEMON: Right on, doctor. Kaitlan, so tell us what's the plan now? Because we have what appears to be the darkest days of the pandemic ahead of us. The president is doing nothing about it while he keeps peddling these lies about all the states that he lost and attacking the few Republicans who are facing reality right now and who are actually telling the truth.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And remember Dr. Scott Atlas despite all of those things that you just listed was really one of the only people toward the end that the president was listening to when it came to coronavirus. In the beginning you saw Dr. Birx by the president side a lot. He even back then listened to Dr. Anthony Fauci. And then it increasingly became only Dr. Atlas.

Dr. Atlas would go and brief the president. He was the main point of contact that the president spoke with besides Alex Azar, the Health and Human Services secretary. And so I think that Dr. Atlas leaving that's because of an ethics issue where you can only stay as a special government employee for 130 days.

We've seen that with other people in this administration. I don't think that the president is going to stop listening to him. You saw the first thing he did tonight was he was on Fox News that somewhere the president found him and discovered him and that's why he brought him on. So, I'm sure he'll continue to listen to him that way.

But of course, you know, you've seen the president's complete lack of involvement with the task force dealing with the COVID numbers. He's happy to talk about the vaccine progress and that's the only time we've seen him address it over the last few weeks. But he has not talked about the rising numbers and what's going to happen between now and June when the Operation Warp Speed officials say most Americans will be able to get a vaccine if they want one.

And so, I think that's the question, is what does the next six weeks looks like -- look like before the Biden administration takes over?

LEMON: Kaitlan, doctor, thank you. We'll all be watching. You guys will be here reporting for us. I appreciate it. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving again.

A lot of top Republicans won't call out the conspiracies the president keeps pushing. They wouldn't say Joe Biden won. They won, Trump lost, so why are they so afraid? And now a Trump campaign lawyer is calling for a former homeland security official to be shot. Is this really what the GOP stands for? You know what I'm going to ask? John Kasich, after the break.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So tonight, we can report Arizona and Wisconsin officially certifying Joe Biden the winner of the election in those states. The votes were counted. The states were projected, the results certified, because that's how it works, every single election that we've ever have.

Sources at the White House saying President Trump sees the writing on the wall even though he is still falsely claiming massive voter fraud, Senate Republicans enabling him refusing to call Biden the president- elect.

Joining me now CNN senior commentator John Kasich. He is the former Republican governor of Ohio. John, are you embarrassed by all of this? Hi, how are you? I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. Are you embarrassed by all this as a Republican?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I'm not embarrassed by it. I just think the people that are operating that way are just, you know -- they're just not making any sense, Don. I hate to get into names, but, you know, I saw a little bit of your segment earlier tonight and I just can't -- some of them I just can't believe would be acting this way. It makes no sense. It's --

LEMON: Why does it surprise you though? Because you were -- you were -- you came out early in criticizing this president. I mean, you know, you've been doing it all along.

KASICH: Yes, yes.

LEMON: But they haven't done it. So why should anybody be surprised now? And why are people -- listen, it's great that the Republicans, you know, people are certifying the election, the governors -- that they're doing their jobs, but they shouldn't get participation trophies. That's what you're supposed to do. That's how democracy works, no?

KASICH: Of course, Don. It's absurd how they're in denial over this. As I said at one point, denial is a river in Egypt, not members of the United States Senate who are looking the other way. But you know, I mean, it's ridiculous. I've said so much about this. And I think now is the time to focus on what Joe Biden is going to plan to do and how he can be successful. And then we have to watch now Republicans will react to what he's doing.

So, I'm very interested in the issues that are going to come right before Joe Biden. They are going to be, I think they're going to be at the top of the list of what he needs to do. Namely, you know, the rolling out of COVID, what he --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: The vaccine you mean.

KASICH: -- is going to do in terms of the relief. Yes.

LEMON: Yes, but listen. Listen --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: He'll be rolling -- I'm sorry.

LEMON: No one is going to agree with you more than I. I agree with you on that.

KASICH: Right.

LEMON: And no one -- listen, how long I've been talking about this president every night for how many years, right? And how many heated discussions have we got into. So, don't get me wrong. But I think what this president is doing and what the Republicans are doing now, they're undermining democracy, underlining -- undermining faith in our elections.

It's really dangerous and I think we have to call them out or we would not be doing our jobs. And when you have people --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Don, I've been calling him -- I've been calling him out for five years.

LEMON: You're right. I just -- I said that.

KASICH: There's not a -- yes, I mean, there's a -- I can't live for them. And frankly, what I'm interested in is where we're going to go.

LEMON: I am, too.

KASICH: What we're going to do right now. LEMON: But you've got to talk -- you've got to do this. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We should be focus -- we should absolutely be focusing on what Joe Biden is going to do can and where he's going to take us and how he's going to deal with the virus and the economy and all of those things.

But when you have people like the president's attorney, John, Joe DiGenova saying --

KASICH: I heard that.

LEMON: -- saying that the former cybersecurity official Chris Krebs his election -- Chris Krebs said by the way this is the most secure election in history, that he should be shot. It is inappropriate. It is dangerous. This is a gutter Republican --

(CROSSTALK)

[22:35:05]

KASICH: Well, it is. Don, it's -- it's appalling that he would say that. I was looking this morning. I saw some minister somewhere that was saying, you know, something along those lines, and I'm thinking this is a man of God talking about that kind of thing and violence and, you know, words matter.

So, you don't want to encourage people who may not have it all together. I mean, you know, to do something. I'm not saying that's going to happen here, but you don't use words like that. If I did anything like that when I was learning as a kid, you know, my mother would have washed my mouth out with soap, right?

So, but look. What I -- and there are more Republicans coming out and taking a stand and saying we got to get over this, and this is a joke. So, I'm happy about that. But what I'm most concerned about, Don, is what's going to happen going forward and can Democrats and Republicans actually work some things out?

Back to this just for a second. We're going to have a vaccine. What Joe Biden has to do is to show that he can calmly distribute that vaccine, that they've got good plans in place. I think Ron Klain had some experience in this, --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But do you actually think that's in question.

KASICH: -- hopefully that's going to work.

LEMON: John --

KASICH: We need a relief package.

LEMON: But do you think -- do you actually think that is a question whether Joe -- of course Joe Biden can roll that out in a calm way. I think that that's given. KASICH: What I'm --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But the relief package, yes.

KASICH: But you see, Don -- Don, here's what I want you to know. If Joe Biden can do that and show great confidence and if he can put together a relief package that can provide help for the unemployed and help for small businesses, he begins to win people over who are -- look, I heard all the names that they called Biden. Then all of a sudden people begin to say, you know what, he's pretty good. He may be able to pull our country together.

LEMON: Like who, who? Win over who?

KASICH: And so, I mean, that's what I'm talking to.

LEMON: Win over who?

KASICH: Went over a lot of people that were skeptical about who he was. And remember, when I endorsed him --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You mean -- what you mean the Republicans. You mean the Republicans?

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: OK, here's what I want to ask you.

KASICH: Republicans who said my goodness, this --

LEMON: You're the perfect person to ask this. So, all right. So, you remember what happened. You're old enough to remember 2008, right, and 2012. When Republicans -- Barack Obama tried his damn best to work with Republicans, right. That kumbaya, we're going to -- they said we don't want to work with you. We're going to make you a one-term president.

Joe Biden was the vice president. For eight years Republicans refused to work with Joe Biden who was the vice president, Barack Obama, who was the president. They said that he wasn't even -- of the president a legitimate president because he wasn't born in this country.

They went along with, not only they go along with that, they elected the person who was the godfather of that. Then they tried to undermine now this -- the president-elect by saying the election was rigged. They didn't -- they didn't bridle or call out the president of the United States, Donald Trump.

So why on earth -- this is a very real question. Why on earth would Joe Biden want to work with those people? Why would he prioritize people in Washington who does not -- who do not want to work with him, rather than the people who put him in office, the American people? Why would he care about working with those people --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Because you can't --

LEMON: -- who never had his back?

KASICH: Don, because you can't pass anything if you don't work with the other side. And Biden has got -- look.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Republicans didn't vote for him. I know he's got to be the president for everyone in the United States --

KASICH: I bet politicians call me. Do, Don, let me answer.

LEMON: -- but those people -- those people --

KASICH: Let me ask you a question.

LEMON: -- those people didn't vote for him. The Republicans at home who went to the polls voted for him.

KASICH: Don?

LEMON: Don't you think he should prioritize those people who went to the polls for him, including Republicans, and rather than the people in Washington who have tried to block him -- who are going to block him the entire time? Why would he try to work with him and prioritize them?

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: I'm not sure that's going to happen.

LEMON: Prioritize the people at them.

KASICH: Let me tell you why. If Republicans block something that is a reasonable plan to help small business and provide on insurance -- and provide, you know, some help --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: They can't block it.

KASICH: -- for people who are uninsured.

LEMON: They can't block it if he is on the people's side -- sides who are at home.

KASICH: Right.

LEMON: The people in Washington can't block it.

KASICH: Well, what I mean, but I'm saying if he comes with a -- Don, if he comes with a reasonable plan on that, if he comes with reasonable programs to help people and reinvigorate the economy, then you see if Republicans are just going to stand up and block him, then they will be labeled obstructionists.

And if they are labeled obstructionists, they will be penalized at the ballot box. I've told you for years now, well, for almost two years now, that the situation is, is that if Donald Trump keeps it up, he's going to lose. He's going to lose the election. He did.

And I'm telling you now that if Republicans are just going to be obstructionists, they will be punished at the ballot box. But it is Biden's nature to want to work with people. And work with people who maybe in the past he didn't get along with. That's what a professional does in public office.

[22:40:05]

LEMON: OK.

KASICH: That's what you do.

LEMON: All right. Let me just say this. You're right about that. But I tell you. If he prioritizes working with people in Washington who have obstructed him for the past what, 12 years now, he's not going to be, he will a one-term president as well. Because he shouldn't be worrying about the people in Washington. He should be worried about the people on main street, Republican and Democrat, not those folks in Washington.

KASICH: And Don, if he can -- but Don, if he can get a relief package through that helps the unemployed and helps people from being thrown out of their homes, then you see, then he does have the people on his side. He is doing good things to unite the country.

LEMON: All right. I think we're saying the same thing. Of course. I'm saying the same thing, but I don't think it's going to be united by trying to kowtow to people in Washington. I think it's going to be united by doing the best --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Nobody -- we're not talking about kowtowing.

LEMON: We're saying the same thing. If he prioritizes people at home, getting a relief package -- we're saying the same thing, John, then he will be fine. But not -- but he shouldn't do it for the sake --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Don, let me get this, I hear you.

LEMON: -- of working with Republicans.

KASICH: Look, you wouldn't believe how many times I ran up against people in my own party throughout my whole career and people in the other party, but a lot of times people in my own party. And you know what, I had two choices. I could lose my temper or I could figure out how to unlock them and get them to do what I want.

I was pretty successful balancing the budget, fixing the State of Ohio, why, I didn't lose my temper.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: I looked for areas where we could agree and I got it done. And I have advised other politicians, don't lose your temper.

LEMON: OK.

KASICH: Keep your cool and you will be the winner.

LEMON: I don't want to be a smart ass, but I'm just going to tell you, you didn't become president.

KASICH: No.

LEMON: You tried that and you did not become president.

KASICH: No. No, no, Don.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: But look --

LEMON: All right.

KASICH: -- I was a congressman for, believe it, 18 years --

LEMON: All right.

KASICH: -- and was the chairman of the budget committee that balanced the budget and the governor of a state --

LEMON: All right. I got to go.

KASICH: -- that turned this state completely around.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I'm going to get you on that. I'm going to do it with Chris Cuomo.

KASICH: And why?

LEMON: I love you, brother.

KASICH: Because --

LEMON: You're welcome here anytime.

KASICH: I didn't have you to vote for me.

LEMON: I've got to go, John.

KASICH: Come on, Lemon.

LEMON: Thank you. I'll see you soon.

KASICH: See you soon.

LEMON: All right. Another vaccine --

KASICH: Happy holidays.

LEMON: Happy holidays. Another -- and merry Christmas and happy Thanksgiving. Another vaccine submitted to the FDA for emergency approval. But when -- when could you get your hands on one and how does it make you feel when you get it? I'm going to speak with someone who participated in the trials. And I want you to hear him explain the reason why he did it.

[22:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The vaccine is on the way. Moderna is the second pharmaceutical company to apply for an emergency use authorization from the FDA. If approved, some people could be getting shots before the end of the year.

Let's discuss now. Dr. Peter Hotez is here. A vaccine scientist and dean of tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. Thank you, sir. Good to see you.

PETER HOTEZ, INFECTIOUS EXPERT, BAYLOR UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, Don.

LEMON: So, Moderna is reporting great results from their trials. And the director of vaccine distribution for Operation Warp Speed said today that 100 percent of the Americans who want the vaccine will have had it by the end of June. Are you as confident as he is?

HOTEZ: Yes. That's going to be tough. Remember, we have two vaccines we think that will be increased by the FDA through emergency use authorization. Both mRNA, the Pfizer and Moderna. But also, there's two others waiting in the wings. There's the two adenovirus vaccine from AstraZeneca, Oxford and J&J.

So, they may be out in the early part of next year. And I think if we have four in hand, then we have a good chance to really move pretty quickly and vaccinate the U.S. population. With two, right now, I think we have enough doses for about 20 million Americans by the end of the year, so I don't think we would get there just with those two vaccines.

There's also a global eco system that include our vaccine that's now being tested across India. So, there's going to be several more vaccines coming. It really all depends on how quickly we can scale up and distribute them.

LEMON: OK. So, everyone watching, doctor, so let's talk more about this. Everyone wants to know when will they be able to get this vaccine. What order will people be allowed to get it? And where will it be? Is it going to be at the drugstore, is it going to be at their doctors' offices, can they go to the, you know, local Walgreens, CVS pharmacy and get it like they get a flu vaccine?

HOTEZ: Well right now we don't have a lot of granular information. The Moderna vaccine, you know, can be stored at 4 degrees for a month, 4 degrees Celsius as refrigerator temperature. So, I think that one yes. You can get at your pharmacy.

The Pfizer vaccine is a little more fragile in the sense that it requires that minus 100-degree freezer storage temperature. And I think it's only good refrigerator temperature for a couple of days. So, that one is going to be more of a balancing act to get those into pharmacies.

But what's happened is the U.S. government has contracted out with McKesson to look at the distribution. What's going to happen tomorrow which is very important is there's a federal committee called the ACIP to, in order to make some recommendations about the priority order of who should get vaccinated first.

There is some confusion there as well, though, because the states are already making plans. So, we'll have to look at what the states recommend versus the ACIP committee and who has priority in terms of making those recommendations. Probably the states. Hopefully it will be pretty close.

LEMON: Dr. Hotez, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

LEMON: Make sure you stay with us because we're going to speak with someone who participated in Moderna's vaccine trial. He never even gotten a flu vaccine. So why did he want to do this?

[22:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. Everybody, pay attention. Because I want you to meet Jarelle Marshall. Jarelle Marshall received his first dose of Moderna's phase three vaccine, candidate, back in August and he did it at the University of Cincinnati. Jarelle joins me now. Hi, Jarelle, how you doing?

JARELLE MARSHALL, MODERNA VACCINE TRIAL PARTICIPANT: I'm all right. How are you?

LEMON: I'm doing very well. Everyone wants to know how you're doing more so than me. Before this, you say that you never even had a flu vaccine shot so what did your family say when you told them that you were going to get this vaccine?

MARSHALL: Well, they didn't know until after or while I was at the office, the doctor's office. So they thought I was a little crazy and like, what are you doing, was the general consensus.

LEMON: OK. Bu then they were OK with it afterwards, right? Were they worried about you?

[22:05:02]

MARSHALL: Yes, they -- my mom and step dad, they're like all right. How was the process? Do you think that, you know, it was a wise decision? Did you talk to anybody before you made the decision to go down there?

You know, I have a buddy that's a doctor that I consulted with before I went down there. So, you know, helped me, he helped push me to make the decision.

LEMON: OK. So, I'm going to pick up where your family left off. So how was it then? Because doctors say that you should, that people should expect to feel a little sick after the vaccine. How did you feel after your injections?

MARSHALL: So, for me the first injection, you know, I really, I mean other than a sore arm I didn't have any really negative side effects. After the second injection, the day after, my temperature rose a couple degrees around 99 for about a day which made me a little nervous. I was checking my temperature every hour or two. But after that, you know, I was fine. I didn't get sick or didn't have any problems.

LEMON: How far apart did you have the -- you had the first one and then the second one?

MARSHALL: I had the first one and it was probably about a month after. About four weeks.

LEMON: A month apart.

MARSHALL: Correct.

LEMON: Yes. And so how long has it been since you had the second shot?

MARSHALL: Man, I want to say it was September.

LEMON: Wow. It's been a while.

MARSHALL: Right. Yes. So, I'm about a couple months in.

LEMON: And nothing. You're fine, you're the same Jarelle.

MARSHALL: I'm the same Jarelle. I travel a lot for work so I'm always on the plane or in the car going somewhere so, you know, I was kind of happy after the fact. Like I was kind of a little bit in limbo to get it at first but I'm kind of happy that I might have some protection because I really don't know whether I got it or the placebo.

LEMON: Yes.

MARSHALL: But it's worked out great.

LEMON: But you're still wearing masks in all of that. And so, what do you say to people watching about getting a vaccine? Do it?

MARSHALL: I would say consult, you know, like I said, I talked to a friend of mine who knows my history, kind of, medically and, you know, he advised me that he thought it was a good idea that I was very low risk to do it. And I always tell my son, you know, I always, what really matters is what you do when people aren't looking.

LEMON: Amen.

MARSHALL: So, you know, it's one of those -- one of those things that, you know, I was thinking about that right before I was like, OK. I'm going to go do it. And then kind of a shock to be on CNN and some of the other things.

LEMON: Of course, we're going to have you on CNN. You're a good man and we're glad that you're doing OK. You have a great story. Say hello to your family. I know they're probably watching and I hope you had a happy Thanksgiving. Merry Christmas to you.

MARSHALL: Thanks.

LEMON: Yes. Hopefully we'll talk soon with all good stuff. Once the vaccine is out.

MARSHALL: I appreciate it.

LEMON: Thank you, Jarelle.

MARSHALL: Always.

LEMON: Thank you very much. You, too. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)