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Don Lemon Tonight

Dr. Scott Atlas Resigns From White House Coronavirus Task Force Post; Arizona And Wisconsin Certify Biden's Victory; Operation Warp Speed Official Says All Americans Who Want The Vaccine Will Have It By End Of June; Trump Raises More Than $150 Million Since Election; Moderna Applies For FDA Authorization For Its COVID-19 Vaccine; Biden Moves Quickly To Build A Diverse Administration. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 30, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): So tonight, Joe Biden officially certified the winner of the election in both Arizona and Wisconsin. President Trump ramping up his false claims of voter fraud and attacking the GOP Governor of Arizona who upheld the rule of law in the election.

Also breaking tonight, Dr. Scott Atlas out at the White House resigning from the coronavirus task force. One source calling his resignation welcome news saying that Atlas was controversial and pushed discredited theories.

Also today President-Elect Biden for the first time since his victory getting the president's daily brief, that's a roundup of classified information -- intelligence information. And Vice President-Elect Kamala Harris also receiving the PDB as it is known.

So, I want to bring in now CNN's Senior Political Analyst, Mr. John Avlon, the former White House communications Director, Mr. Anthony Scaramucci and the former Democratic presidential candidate, Dr. Andrew Yang. He's not doctor but I just thought I would say that.

(LAUGHTER)

Good to have all of you on this evening. Thank you so much. I hope you ate too much and had a great time. So, Anthony, I want to start with you, because Wisconsin and Arizona, both certified Biden's wins today. Two White House advisers telling CNN that despite what Trump is tweeting he understands that he has no chance of winning. So what is he trying to accomplish by continuing with this farce?

ANTONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, FOUNDER/ MANAGING PARTNER, SKY BRIDGE CAPITAL (on camera): Well, he is trying to appease those supporters of his so it will be 25 to 70 million people. He knows by linking all of them to this conspiracy theory and sticking with that narrative and that lie about a fraudulent election. They'll have a grievance that they'll share with him. Not many people will believe that and he'll go on to make money off of them, Don. That is the ultimate goal.

LEMON: John Avlon, I want you to take a listen to what Senator Lindsey Graham said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think he's focused on the challenge he has and trying to, you know, deal with mail-in voting and I'm very worried about it too myself quite frankly.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Do you think he should go to Biden's inauguration?

GRAHAM: If Biden ends up winning yeah I think so.

RAJU: Why is that important?

GRAHAM: I think it's good for the country. It'll be good for him. We'll know in December. I hope Biden will come to his.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I mean, John, it is shameful. I mean, it is embarrassing.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): This is what passes for a profile in courage of November of 2020. It is just pathetic. You know, they can't bring themselves to say what they know to be true. They keep coddling the president with this you know, offering him a couple bread crumbs about fictitious mail-in voter fraud.

[23:05:05]

And they know it's false. And they're just feeding it. And what they are doing then instead of standing up to the president and standing up for the rule of law they are giving credence to that conspiracy theory that grift Anthony just described. It is disgraceful.

LEMON: He was the one, remember, who called and I quote, Joe Biden as good a man as god ever created and then he said the nicest person I think I've ever met in politics.

AVLON: That was then this is now.

LEMON: Hum. Interesting.

AVLON: So much for honor.

LEMON: Yeah. Andrew Yang, more than 96,000 people in the U.S. are hospitalized with the coronavirus. And that is tonight. 50 million Americans could face food insecurity in the next month and that's according to Feeding America. Is anyone in Washington trying to deal with these massive crises right now?

ANDREW YANG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (on camera): Well, you have gridlock that's seizing up any attempt to get cash relief or relief for small businesses out the door where the Republicans and Democrats have been hundreds of billions of dollars apart for quite some time. I don't think anyone can hear me anymore -- (inaudible).

LEMON: No, I can hear you. You're good.

YANG: There's a problem with the network.

LEMON: John? Andrew? So, we don't have Andrew Yang. So, let's talk more about that. Because an official with Operation Warp Speed you know who that is, Anthony, says that 100 percent of Americans who want a coronavirus vaccine will have it by June.

And the former Congressman, Democratic presidential candidate John Delaney is proposing giving Americans $1,500 if they take the vaccine. What do you think of that idea?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I like the idea because it'll increase the likelihood of the herd immunity. There's a lot of anti-vaxxers, a lot of misinformation about vaccine out there, Don. And I also think people need the money. I know Andrew is not on with us but I know he would like the idea because it is a sort of a form of universal, basic income. And so in general I think incentivizing people will help us get out of the crisis faster.

LEMON: I want to -- one more -- are you there? Andrew Yang?

YANG: Yeah, apparently I was here the whole time.

LEMON: You were. I was telling you I could hear. What do you think of the proposal? John Delaney proposing --

SCARAMUCCI: I have to back Andrew.

LEMON: -- getting $1,500 to people who take the vaccine?

YANG: I think we should be getting money into people's hands right now but certainly it would increase adoption of the vaccine and we're going to need to do something to stimulate trust and widespread adoption if we are going to actually be able to resume any kind of public gatherings, indoor dining, or really any form of normalcy. So, I love it.

I think John is on to something very important. It's common sense. If you're going to revive a $22 trillion economy, spending a few hundred million on getting adoption of the vaccine up makes perfect sense.

LEMON: Yes, listen, and I think -- since the quarantine, everybody is used to these technical problems. They expect them now. And I think it is sometimes the only time people actually look up at the TV at our ugly faces is when we go oh, we lost them, -- they're listening but they are not necessarily watching. And that is when they look up and go what's going on there?

So, it all depends on how you handle it. So, you just, you know, keep going. Let me ask you this, John. President Trump is also falsely attacking Georgia's election since he lost the state. His lies now about the election, about election fraud, it is putting Republicans in sort of a circular firing squad, threatening their chances to win, which is a really critical place they need to win for the Senate.

AVLON: Well, two things, right. He's attacking Governor Kemp in Georgia, attacking Governor Doocy of Arizona. And there you're reminded of what Churchill once said about appeasement, it's like feeding the crocodile hoping he eats you last. It is not a good strategy. You can't placate this cat.

The second thing is of course, you know, the RNC chairman the other day took a question from somebody who said why should I bother voting in Georgia? Everything is rigged. Everything is a fraud. That's what happens when you indulge these conspiracy theories. You can't do it. It is an argument for just having the politics of principle and telling the truth. Because otherwise you are going to get that ironic blowback which they could very well see.

LEMON: Anthony didn't you tell me that it was going to backfire a bit ago? Did you tell me that?

SCARAMUCCI: Yeah. I love it, because it is exactly what Donald Trump would do to these people, this is what sort of demagogues do. They turn on every single person. You have to support the person like 125 percent and if you don't he or rips you to pieces or shivers you to pieces, but it is usually he is.

And I love it. Be I hopefully it will ring the bell, every one of these Republicans to realize how sinister the guy is. And then of course, you see Lindsey Graham doing and saying what he is doing today which is basically repulsive but, you know, at some point there will be a reckoning in that Party and there will be a deep dive in that Party, Don, and hopefully they will be a process to rebuild something new that won't look like the current Republican Party.

[23:10:21]

LEMON: I want you guys to respond to this. This is new reporting that just sent from the Washington Post that Trump raises more than $150 million, appealing to false election claims, and says President Trump's political operation has raised more than $150 million since Election Day using a blizzard of misleading appeals about the election to shatter fundraising records set during the campaign.

That's according to people with knowledge of the contributions. You called it a grift. Anthony I'll get your response and I'm going to go to Andrew. Anthony first and then Andrew.

SCARAMUCCI: Oh, me first. I'm sorry. Listen, I told you a few weeks ago in the fine print that's all forward operation money and to pay down debt. They don't need that kind of money for the legal bills. And I think that is also tipping the president off and he may just announce that he is running for president, so he can keep this perpetual fever going and this fundraising which he'll use.

I'm not saying he'll actually run or be a candidate in 2024 but he'll raise a big war chest of money and it is disgusting. And you know, more people should call him out on it.

LEMON: Andrew, imagine if that money, I'll let you respond to this, you know, if it went to people who actually need it. He should be raising money for people who need it, but go on, Andrew.

YANG: My organization has put about $10 million into the hands of struggling American families and we're just scratching the surface of the need, Don. So, 150 million and more could certainly go a long way in small towns and communities around the country that are struggling.

Here in Georgia I will say that if you turn on the TV, you're seeing a lot of ads come in on the Republican side and the Democratic side to a lesser extent but money is getting spent here and I know that in theory at least some of the money that Donald Trump is raising could be heading this direction as well. The stakes are very high here in Georgia.

LEMON: Yes. John, what do you think?

AVLON: Look. I mean, this is the most sinister grift you can possibly imagine. This is the president trying to run down our democracy, trying to destroy its credibility among citizens in the eyes of the world solely so he can pocket some more cash from his supporters. Who are being exposed or treated as useful idiots.

It is so disgusting to see a president diminish the office this way to try to profit off it by propagating conspiracy theories and compromising our democracy. It is historically awful.

LEMON: I just have to get this note in that Andrew has been spending a lot of time in Georgia knocking on doors for John Ossoff and Reverend Warnock and he is seeing the disinformation up close and personal that this president and the Republicans are sowing there. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'll see you gentlemen soon.

AVLON: Take care.

LEMON: Thank you.

On the day the president's coronavirus adviser, Dr. Scott Atlas walks away, the pandemic death toll in this country passes 268,000 people. And Dr. Anthony Fauci says being vaccinated is the solution to this crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: If you want to be part of the solution, get vaccinated and say I'm not going to be one of the people that is going to be a stepping stone for the virus to go to somebody else. I'm going to be a dead end to the virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[23:15:00]

LEMON: Tonight the U.S. passing 13.5 million coronavirus cases, it's a staggering 4.3 million of those cases added just this month. That as a record 96,000 Americans have been hospitalized with the virus.

Today the FDA is scheduling an advisory meeting to discuss an emergency use authorization for Moderna's coronavirus vaccine and an official from Operation Warp Speed now saying that by June 100 percent of Americans who want the vaccine will have it. But with critical months to go how can officials make certain that the process goes smoothly while limiting the risk to Americans?

Joining me now to discuss is Dr. David Shulkin, he is a former Veterans Affairs secretary under President Trump also served as undersecretary of Veterans Affairs under President Barack Obama. So good to see you and I appreciate you coming on. Good evening.

You have been critical of how the pandemic has been mishandled so far. But there is a chance to get it right with this vaccine. How difficult is it going to be to roll out these vaccines and do you believe the Trump administration can handle the task until Biden takes over?

DAVID SHULKIN, FORMER VETERANS AFFAIR SECRETARY (on camera): Well, Don, first of all, great to be with you. I do think this is a critical time for the country but there is a lot to be hopeful for. The vaccines, themselves, I think, are really surpassing people's expectations about how they may perform and of course we certainly hope that they do get the authorization that all of us expect.

But it is going to take a very coordinated effort to be able to see the distribution happen and get those vaccines to the people that need them as soon as possible. This type of coordination is not been something that the Trump administration has done well.

But I do believe that there's been ample time to have the states involved and at the level of the health systems that are being contacted by the states. I know that they're well organized and planning to have a successful distribution. So I am optimistic about this, Don.

LEMON: So then, what is the incoming Biden administration need to do to hit the ground running? I mean, talk to us about the logistics involved here.

[23:20:03]

SHULKIN: Well, of course, Don, I've been involved in a transition between the Obama administration and Trump administration and that's why I think it is such good news that they're finally beginning to talk directly because the Biden administration of course is focused on this distribution plan and was going to have to come up with a parallel plan if there wasn't this type of coordination.

But now that we're beginning to see the task forces talking together. I think that we will see a smooth transition happen on January 20th and there should not be bumps in the road. By inauguration, I expect that the majority of health care workers and the majority of those who are in the skilled nursing facilities in the nursing homes will already be vaccinated so that we can now then start moving on to the next tier of priority people to be vaccinated in the country.

LEMON: As I said in the first question you have been critical of how the pandemic has been handled. So I have to ask you, do you think so much would be riding on this vaccine if the Trump administration had done more to control the virus?

SHULKIN: Well, I think the vaccine was always going to be a part of how we would bring this pandemic under control. I think it's only one part of it and of course that's the piece that I do think has gone the best allowing industry to be able to come up with this type of solution with government help in the pre-manufacturing of this and the funding of this.

But I think that it's taken us a long time to cut the other pieces together. Of course in the beginning the administration did not do a good job on bio surveillance. It did a poor job on getting diagnostic testing available. And as you know, even today we still don't have enough diagnostic testing. And testing as well as the vaccine are going to be the one-two punches that bring this under control.

But the inconsistency of the messaging, the overall undermining of confidence in information from scientists in our government agencies, I think all contributed to a situation that led to this virus, unfortunately, getting away from us and getting out of control. And I think we could have been in a far better situation waiting for the vaccines than we find ourselves now.

LEMON: You held top positions in Veteran's Affairs Department. You served there under two presidents. Who would you like to see Joe Biden choose to run the V.A.?

SHULKIN: Listen, I think I'm so pleased that they're looking at very capable candidates here. I think you want somebody that has a track record of being able to manage a very complex organization. This is an agency that is 400,000 employees, a $220 billion budget. But you want somebody who is mission focused. This is an agency who really has a mission unlike any other in government.

This is to care for those who have raised their hands to sacrifice for the rest of us and I really consider it one of the noble missions of government. So you want to see somebody who is in it for the right reason, who has the experience and the ability to handle the complex health issues that our veterans face both physical and emotional.

And I know that Vice President Biden, President-Elect Biden understands this very well. His son served. I've spent time talking to him about this. I believe he is prepared to make a really good choice.

LEMON: It is a really important job so no names specifically and not a Shulkin in the names.

SHULKIN: I think whoever the President-Elect asks to do this will be honored to serve and should be prepared to serve nobly but I'm not going to get into the guessing game and try to get in front of the President-Elect on this one.

LEMON: Well, Secretary, you're a fine man and I thank you for joining us here. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

SHULKIN: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you. President-Elect Joe Biden moving quickly to build an administration that looks like America. We are going to discuss the women joining the administration. Plus former President Barack Obama on Biden's hurdles in healing a divided nation. He spoke with April Ryan. And there's April, after the break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think Joe Biden is going to fix racism in America any more than I was going to fix racism in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:00]

LEMON (on camera): In a new interview with the former President Barack Obama saying Joe Biden's administration can put us back on the path to making things better when it comes to combatting racism in America. President Trump spending much of the past four years fanning the flames of division with one racist dog whistle after another. Obama cautioning that the issue of race in America is too big for one person alone to solve, but the incoming team can help us get on the right track. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I don't think Joe Biden is going to fix racism in America. Any more than I was going to fix racism in America, but what I have great confidence that Joe will do and the people who surround Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in the White House can do is to set a tone of inclusiveness, to send a message that racism is not acceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): CNN political analyst and veteran White House correspondent, April Ryan conducted that Obama interview and she joins me now. Nice work, April. Good to see you. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALIST (on camera): Good to see you, Don. I did.

[23:29:59]

LEMON: President Trump was -- he was the backlash to President Barack Obama. Let's just say that. Our colleague Van Jones --

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

LEMON: -- remember, he called it a whitelash. Does President Obama think Biden and Harris can leave that behind or move past it somehow?

RYAN: Well, before Van Jones called it a whitelash, I called it a blacklash. And at the end of the day, we are going back and forth. We are seeing polar opposites.

We are going from Barack Obama, the extreme, and a Barack Obama with Donald Trump. Now, we are going from the extreme end of Donald Trump back to what people believe could be the normality of a democracy without the vitriol, without the hate.

At the end of the day, Don, when we look at the matter of race, we have seen generations try to grapple with this issue for 401 years since Africans were brought into this country to be enslaved.

Let's look at the president that abolished slavery. Let's look at the president that integrated the military. Let's look at the president who tried to begin the issue of civil rights. Let's look at the president who enacted the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, and then the Fair Housing Act.

And then look -- let's fast forward to 2020. We're still dealing with issues of race. So it is not one person but it is a people. We've got all these laws on the books but still there is a problem. You've got people marching in the streets with tiki torches. And then a president who said there are good people on both sides.

Something is wrong there. And you have to go beyond the laws and look at the heart but also make sure --

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

RYAN: -- there are people that are included at the table. That's what Washington is talking about right now. That's the big piece in Washington inside the beltway.

LEMON: But also -- it's also what is reality, right? Because there are people, you know --

RYAN: Yeah.

LEMON (on camera): -- we can't seem to come to an agreement on what reality is, what facts are. President Trump has been spreading lies about his election defeat. He's peddling conspiracy theories about his entire presidency. This is what Obama told you about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look at companies like Newsmax that just are mimicking the wild accusations, unfounded accusations made by Donald Trump about this election without regard to any support or evidence of these claims, and lots of people are soaking that in. All of us are going to have to figure out how we get back to the point where the truth means something, and that, you know, you can't just make stuff up, and suddenly half the country believes it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): But that's what we have been dealing with, a president who makes stuff up.

RYAN: Yes.

LEMON: Half the country believes it. There have been so many lies coming from the Trump White House even if Biden -- even if the Biden White House is more truthful, which I can't imagine any White House being as untruthful as this one is. Are people going to believe it, April?

RYAN: You know we are now at the era of fact checking and for this president to have to -- for Twitter to say, we dispute this claim, it says something.

When you think of the United States president, you believe that the president has your best interests at heart. You believe that he's telling you the truth because so much weighs on what he says from the stock markets to life and death. And then to have a president of the United States, a leader of the free world, to be fact-checked, that is saying a lot.

So, I believe, as a member of the media who is going to see the next president come in on January 20th, I believe that we are now going to be -- Donald Trump has caused something where we are going to have to look and make sure everything is fact-checked.

He has changed the dynamic. He has changed what used to be. We're going to be doing more fact checking to make sure. We are now looking at lies versus saying, oh, it is spin. Out-and-out lies with this president versus what used to be considered spin, was nothing near where we are now.

LEMON: OK. So I'm going to drive people over to listen and watch your interview because in the interview --

RYAN: Yes, you will.

LEMON: -- April talks about -- she asks the president, the former president if there is going to be another black president and what kind of scrutiny Kamala Harris is going to be under as the first south Asian VP and a black woman as VP. So go listen to April's interview. It is great.

April, thank you. It is good to see you. I'm so glad you got that interview. Congratulations and thanks.

RYAN: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you. RYAN: I appreciate you. Love you much.

LEMON: Yeah. Thank you. I love you more.

President-elect Joe Biden is announcing his choices for some key roles in his administration. A look at the women filling those roles and exclusive CNN reporting leaked documents from China show what the country knew about its early coronavirus cases.

[23:35:00]

LEMON: That is still to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, with about 50 days to go until his inauguration, president-elect Joe Biden moving to fill out his cabinet, naming Janet Yellen, the former head of the Federal Reserve as treasury secretary, the first woman to hold the position. She is one of four women to -- in top roles, I should say, on Biden's economic team.

[23:39:59]

LEMON: Vice president-elect Kamala Harris saying last week that Biden is committed to diversity in his administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): When Joe asked me to be his running mate, he told me about his commitment to making sure we selected a cabinet that looks like America, that reflects the best of our nation, and that's what we have done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So let's discuss now with CNN economics commentator Catherine Rampell and political commentator Tara Setmayer. So good to see both of you. Good evening.

Tara first. So Biden appears to be making good on the commitment, announcing today key members of his economic team, and there is Janet Yellen, who would be the first woman to serve as treasury secretary. Cecilia Rouse, she would be the first woman of color to lead the Council of Economic Advisers. Then Neera Tanden, the first woman of color and south Asian descent to run the Office of Management and Budget.

These are history making appointments. What do you think of the choices so far, Tara?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I have to be honest. It is a breath of fresh air. Regardless of policy differences or differences in the past, it really is a breath of fresh air. You're going to see competence. You're going to see -- you know, with the com shop, the communications shop -- big congratulations to Jen Psaki for getting the press secretary job.

You're not going to see the level of mendacity that we have seen every day coming out of the podium at the White House press briefings. It is really encouraging to see that the way that Joe Biden is starting off his presidency will be keeping a promise, a promise to have a diverse cabinet that represented America.

One of Joe Biden's mantras throughout his campaign was that not only was he going to unify America, but he repeatedly said that he was going to be the president of everyone, and that his cabinet will reflect all of the problems and the solutions that require a diverse point of view.

So, I think that is encouraging. It really is a repudiation of this make America great again. Let's go back to the 1950s or whenever that Donald Trump put forth. It is clear that the American people did not want to go backward. They wanted to move forward and Joe Biden is reflecting that in his choices for his staff moving forward.

LEMON: Catherine, Biden's choices are -- it is a huge contrast from what Tara has pointed out, from President Trump's original mostly white and male appointees from four years ago. But they are also highly experienced. Do you think this is a rebuke of the current administration on a number of levels, competency?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Competency, I know. Who thought we could have that back in the White House again? It is really, as Tara said, a breath of fresh air. I think it is a huge relief to a lot of Americans. This is what Americans voted for the most part when they voted for Joe Biden, someone who would find people, experts who have authority and put them in positions of authority, right?

I mean, Janet Yellen, for example, you could not craft, you know, if you had a lab, a better person to lead the Treasury Department right now given her experience, given her intellect, her even keel, and the fact that she really cares about American values and using the economic tools available to achieve those values, things like greater equality, for example.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

RAMPELL: So, yes, I think this is a great team, not just because of the historic firsts that they represent, but because, first and foremost, they are experts, they are competent, and they are experienced.

LEMON: I want to ask you, Tara, about Neera Tanden because she has drawn criticism from progressives and from conservatives. She has a history of blasting Republicans. She has had trouble as well with the Bernie Sanders wing. So, do you think she'll get confirmed?

SETMAYER: Well, I think this is an interesting thing. We haven't really seen this level of pushback from most of the nominees that Biden has put forth. She does have to get confirmed through Congress. And, you know, it doesn't help when you go after the majority party as of right now. That's why what is happening in Georgia is so crucial. It will determine who controls the Senate.

But listen. When you're upsetting people on the right and on the left, then I guess you're in a pretty good place because she is getting it from both sides. The Bernie Sanders folks have always been rather unruly at times. They don't always play on the same team. So it is par for the course.

It's clear to me, given Biden's experience and his transition team's experience, that they anticipated this pushback and wouldn't have put her forth if they didn't think she'd get confirmed.

Now, the flip side of that is you always have a confirmation controversy once in a while here when you have big confirmations like this, but for the office of OMB, if this is the hill that Republicans want to die on, then that's on them. But I think it will be difficult for them to justify not nominating the first south Asian woman to run that office because she put out a couple of tough tweets on them.

[23:45:05]

LEMON: Not confirming.

RYAN: Right.

LEMON: Yeah. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

So, CNN exclusive, documents from inside China show what they really knew about its first cases of coronavirus. Inside those documents, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): CNN has obtained leaked documents from inside China that reveal the missteps and the chaos of its early days during the coronavirus.

[23:50:02]

LEMON: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): An unprecedented leak of internal Chinese documents to CNN reveals for the first time what China knew in the opening weeks of the COVID-19 pandemic but did not tell the world.

A whistleblower, who said they worked inside the Chinese health care system, shared the documents with CNN online, which show a chaotic local response from the start.

YANZHONG HUANG, SENIOR FELLOW FOR GLOBAL HEALTH, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: This lack of transparency sort of also contributed to the crisis.

WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Seeing information in black and white was very revealing and instructive.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): CNN has verified them with half a dozen experts, a European security official and using complex, digital forensic analysis, looking at their source code.

(On camera): The documents provide a number of key revelations about the province of Hubei, home to the epicenter, the city of Wuhan. Firstly, some of the death tolls were off. The worst day in these reports says February the 17th, where these say 196 people, who were confirmed cases, died. But that day, they only announced 93.

(Voice-over): China was also circulating internally, bigger, more detailed totals for new cases in Hubei. For one day, in February, recording internally nearly 6,000 new cases, some diagnosed by tests, others clinically by doctors, and some suspected because of symptoms and contacts, but all pretty serious.

Yet, publicly, that day, China reported nationwide about 2,500 new confirmed cases. The rest were downplayed in an ongoing tally of suspected cases. That meant patients that doctors have diagnosed as being seriously ill, sounded like they were in doubt, but it later improved the criteria.

DALI YANG, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: If china had been more transparent and also more aggressive in responding, clearly, that would have had impact on how much the virus spread in Wuhan, in Hubei, in China, and perhaps to the rest of the world, as well.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Strikingly, the documents reveal one possible reason behind the discrepancy in the numbers. A report from early March says it took a staggering 23 days, on average, from when someone showed COVID-19 symptoms to when they got a confirmed diagnosis. That's three weeks to officially catch each case.

HUANG: This information seems to be very surprising to me because normally, it would take, you know, just a couple of days.

SCHAFFNER: You're making policy today based on information that already is three weeks old.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Perhaps the most remarkable revelation concerns early December, the moments when COVID-19 first emerged in China.

(On camera): Startlingly, these documents reveal there was an enormous spike in influenza cases in Hubei, right when studies have shown the very first-known patients were infected with COVID-19, 20 times the number of flu cases compared to the same week the year before.

(Voice-over): Experts said it could have flooded the hospital system with patients sick from flu-like symptoms, making it harder to spot the first cases of COVID-19.

The documents don't link the outbreak to coronavirus's origins directly, but they show flu patients were regularly screened and many did not have a known flu virus strain, leaving open the possibility they were sick with COVID-19.

HUANG: The spike right in Wuhan was very unusual, like, compared to previous years. So that would raise a red flag.

SCHAFFNER: It was very, very sizeable. It's clear that the Chinese virologists can make precise diagnosis of influenza. But, in retrospect, you have to wonder, was there some COVID in there masquerading as influenza?

PATON WALSH (voice-over): The documents also show the flu outbreak was biggest that first week in December, not in Wuhan, but in two other cities nearby, in Hubei, all valuable information in the hunt for where the disease came from.

Chinese officials have said the outbreak began here, the seafood market in Wuhan in mid-December. And despite western accusations that it has limited its cooperation with the WHO investigation into the virus's origins, China has insisted it has been as transparent as possible over the coronavirus.

For some time now, in order to shift the blame, she said, some U.S. politicians have constantly used the pandemic and other issues as a pretext to smear and demonize China, and so lies and misinformation about China.

This will, of course, seriously mislead citizens of the United States and some other western countries understanding of the truth of China's fight against the epidemic. China's foreign ministry and health officials in Beijing and Wuhan have not responded to our requests for comment.

[23:54:58]

PATON WALSH (voice-over): This disease has killed nearly one and a half million people, about a fifth of known deaths in America. These documents, a rare, clear and open window into what China knew all along, trying to appear in control, while a local outbreak turned into a global pandemic.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.

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LEMON (on camera): Thank you, Nick. And thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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