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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Living In Unrealistic World; Birtherism Attack Against V.P.-Elect; Texas A.G. Meets With President Trump; Right People At The Right Time; U.S. Death Toll Climbing Up; FDA Approves COVID-19 Vaccine. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired December 09, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): "CNN TONIGHT," big show, big star, D. Lemon. My brother, we are living through the darkest of days.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: We really are, and in so many ways. It's so important right now that we all do come together, I know it sounds like kumbaya, right, but this is when it's really important.

So, let's have this conversation. And I heard you and John Kasich talking. And I just hung up with him a couple of minutes ago. And considering what happened at the White House. Right? How do you -- and we've been talking about this, how do you reach out, how do you come together when there is not even two sets of reality but one reality and one not?

Like how do you -- how do you, to have that conversation? Is it even possible? I don't know. I don't know if it is right now. And now is the most important time. We have all these people dying, becoming sick, that we all come together and stop listening to the bullshit, I don't know, I don't know.

CUOMO: It's hard to know right now. Because what has worked in the past, common enemy, that is what in recent memory what brought this country together while in pockets crisis. People are hurting in one part of the country, our hearts open up, we flood. There but for the grace. Nine/eleven, why? Common enemy. We're going to war. But the info is bad, yellow cake is not real, it doesn't matter.

LEMON: The weapons of mass destruct -- it's not, you're right.

CUOMO: They did it to us, we're going to get them, they're not us. Was there some flaws in that? Yes. Was that something that created a lot of pain in this country for people who are brown, who are Muslim, who looked like they were Muslim? The Sikhs, you know, Indians who would be putting signs up, not a Muslim, I love America. Those were scary, dark days also because of how anger takes aim.

But short of that, coming together for good reason out of division that is spawned by politics, I've never seen it. I've never seen it. LEMON: I was going to say but you stopped me, that, Chris, hey, look,

that was quaint, that was so five years ago, meaning before the escalator ride. It's all different now. Everyone is so -- it's when you cannot get people to even -- when someone tells you that they won an election that they lost, that's going to a whole another level.

And then you have people believe you -- believing in you because they trusted in you and they thought they were doing something noble, they thought they were standing up for the right thing when they really weren't, they were, you were leading them astray.

And the common enemy is not us, it's not the media. I mean, listen, maybe it's someone else, it's not me, it's not you. To the best of my ability I tell you the truth every night. If I screw it up, I apologize and I correct it.

But these people are being lied to, and have been lied to for at least the past five years. And now we happen to be coming out of an election that was very contentious and he actually lost and he's trying to change the reality on that.

We're in the middle of a pandemic that he didn't handle well, and he is trying to change the narrative and rewrite history on that. And -- and I don't know how to reach people who -- I don't think you're ever going to get the diehards.

But people who right now are saying, OK, maybe it's time to get on board because -- whether you believe Joe Biden won the election or not, he did. At this point he's going to be your leader, he's your only hope. Donald Trump is not your hope, he's going to be gone from Pennsylvania Avenue.

CUOMO: There's a different play going on, assuming that that's right. And by the way, you know, I hope that is right. Trump is out, he lost, he should be gone. If there's any other outcome other than that, --

LEMON: He's not out yet.

CUOMO: -- it would be chaos.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Yes. But you know what, even that is living a lie. Transition is always been a real thing. Lame duck exists as a term for --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: No, I agree with you.

CUOMO: -- the last year in this period for a reason.

LEMON: I completely agree with you.

CUOMO: So, they're playing by the letter of a law they don't even want to follow.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But that's -- that's where my darkness comes in which is my theory is, we are knitted together by the rules. That's our national religion, the rules, the faith in justice and pursuit of justice, right? They said pursuit of justice for a reason. Why? Hard to attain especially in this kind of heterogenous society as we've seen painfully time and again.

[22:04:59]

But once you decide the rules don't work, no, no, the rules don't work, brother, they don't work equally, they don't work for me, they don't work for people who look like you. So why should they work on this level just because you want then to?

Once you reach that breaking point which where Trump has taken us to, he didn't start the fire. He is the fever of an illness that has been here for a long time. He has people, 9 in 10 of the re-Trumplicans in Congress, that's why I call them re-Trumplicans.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Nine in ten of these people say the rules don't really apply.

LEMON: I'm sorry I blame him. I think -- I think the --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You can blame him. I'm saying it goes beyond him.

LEMON: It does. But he didn't start the fire. But he's certainly throwing in logs every single day.

CUOMO: He's a turbo charger.

LEMON: He's throwing in accelerant every single day.

CUOMO: Absolutely. He is gasoline.

LEMON: And he is, we cannot forget that he is -- I now we're in a transition as you say.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: He is still the leader of the free world and if he wasn't, we would not be paying attention to him the way we do now. Because what he says is important. What he does is important --

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: -- and it has consequence, all of it.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: So.

CUOMO: But his people don't have to be around him like this.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: That party didn't have to capitulate, literally the meaning of the word, give their head to this guy.

LEMON: They did.

CUOMO: They didn't have to do that.

LEMON: They did. That's why it irks me so much when people say, well that, not everybody believes in that. Not all of those people believe in that.

CUOMO: Nine out of 10.

LEMON: Nine out of 10. And that is where -- that's what -- because those people are leading the flock, so to speak, astray. Those people should be leading, they should be setting the precedent for the people of America and they're not doing that. They are misleading them as well.

I got to go. I'm going to continue -- we need to talk about this and figure it out though, Chris.

CUOMO: This is all we're going to be talking about for the rest of our lives.

LEMON: yes. Yes.

CUOMO: This is the story of our present and our future.

LEMON: I hope it's reachable.

CUOMO: If we don't figure this out, we will never get to a better place than we are today.

LEMON: Yes. See you soon.

CUOMO: But it all starts with this. I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: I love you more. I'll see you soon. Let's continue to talk.

OK. So, this is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

And, so we're going to talk about the news but I really want to say this to you. You got to -- you have to figure this out but you have to -- you've got to be living in reality, people. You cannot go around saying the president won. Donald Trump won. He didn't win. That's not reality. And I'm not preaching to you, I'm just telling you the truth.

And if you want people to come together, if you want to help the entire country, the first step is to live in reality. And then we'll go from there. If there are some issues with the election that need to be taken care of, and some, you know, inaccuracies, we can take care of that, but not this crazy conspiracy theory way. It's not helpful. It's not helpful.

So -- and this is proof -- this is -- encapsulates everything I'm saying right now. So, let's help each other out. Because this is the breaking news that I'm going to show you. This current president is right now falsely telling a crowd, right, tonight he did, at tonight's White House Hanukkah party that he still thinks that he will win the election. The election that he already lost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: All I ask for is people with wisdom and with courage. That's all. Because if people, certain very important people, if they have wisdom and if they have courage, we're going to win this election in a landslide.

(APPLAUSE)

CROWD: Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): That's a con. That's not true. It is not going to happen. It's just not. And someone really respected you and had your best interests at heart, they don't lie to you, they don't give you false hope. They tell you the truth.

So, to the point that Chris and I just said, what are Republicans saying about his doomed fight? Well, absolutely outrageous, the most insane thing yet. Simply madness. I frankly struggle to understand the legal theory of it.

So, all of those quotes, those are all quotes from Republicans. Republicans. Blasting the current president's latest doomed battle and his war on the election, on our democracy, asking the Supreme Court to throw out millions of votes from battleground states that voted for President-elect Joe Biden.

So, there's that. Also, more breaking news tonight.

[22:10:03]

It's that, this president wants Senator Ted Cruz to argue the case for him if it reaches the Supreme Court. It is -- this is not even bordering on Looney Tunes madness.

Are the inmates really running the asylum right now? The current president is still living in his alternate reality. His unreality. I don't know how many different ways that I can say this. Running out of words to describe just how dangerous this president's behavior is.

How to break through, how to talk on this show to all Americans. Seriously, every night I sit with my producers and how do you talk about this? Producers, am I lying? Maria, every night, how do we talk to all Americans? Don't want to offend people because -- you know, we don't want to speak down to people, don't want to let people off the hook. We want to give them reality. All kinds of things, we talk about what is best way to do it, reach the most people, to be the most effective.

And every day I come to both sides, everyone involved has to be living in a shared sense of what reality is. And if the group -- there's one group that's not, it is impossible. You cannot. One plus one equals two, and someone says no, no, equals four. It doesn't. You're not living in reality so we cannot agree, and I cannot trust you if you don't live in reality, if you don't understand where you went astray, or what happened, how you got there.

Because I don't know if in the future you're going to revert to the same sort of behavior. That's all real stuff, right? Whether you voted for Biden, or you voted for Trump or whatever. But the time to take a stand is right now, before it is too late, because the democracy is hanging by a thread, where we have electors in certain states and attorneys general and so on who are really holding our democracy, and it can break at any moment if people don't follow the law, if they become too partisan.

Take a stand for democracy, people. Show me that America is about the will of the people, not the grievances of sore losers. If you want to take -- if you don't want to take it from me, take it from those lifelong Republicans calling this outrageous, insane, and madness. And I will add crazy and I'll add delusional. Out of touch, out of control.

This president has been getting more and more desperate ever since he lost the election. I mean even lying tonight we're going to win. The election is over. The votes and the electors have been certified, the Supreme Court has thrown out -- case after case has been thrown out, the process has played out.

He lost to Joe Biden by more than seven million votes and now that all 50 states, all 50 of them, plus D.C., the District of Columbia, have certified their results. Now that the Electoral College is set to meet in just five days, now that the end of the line is in sight, he's taking it to the next level.

Do you really want to go down this crazy path, this nut path? Not just tossing around ludicrous and totally bogus claims over voter fraud, claims his own hand-picked attorney general debunked, but actually calling for the election, the stated will of the people, to be overturned. That's madness. Who goes along with that?

Yes, the President of the United States wants the election overturned immediately because he lost. And incredibly, he goes on to ask how can a country be run like this. Well, he is running the country. A lot of people are asking that. Duh. How can -- turn it back to you, Mr. President, how can a country be run like this?

How can a country be run like this with a president who has zero respect for our free and fair election, for democracy itself? How can a country be run like this?

[22:15:01] You are the president. You tell me how. A president who threatens to burn it all down just to get what he wants. Power. Why don't we just overturn the election, that's kind of thing you hear from a crazed dictator, not the President of the United States, people. But he is seemingly -- he's never met a dictator that he didn't like or, and/or admire, from Vladimir Putin to Kim Jong-un.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have a tremendous relationship with President Xi, I get along with President Putin, I get along with Mohammed from Saudi Arabia. President Erdogan, he's tough but I get along with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): No accident that dictators were right up there near the top of the list when the president refused to meet world leaders while wearing a mask.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know, somehow, I don't see it for myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): There you go, just play the -- in his own words. Nobody's going to overturn our election, by the way, not even the current president. Which is why it is so crazy that he just keeps trying.

Now he's getting personally involved in a desperate Hail Mary, a lawsuit by the attorney general of Texas, trying to get the Supreme Court to invalidate election results in Georgia, in Michigan, in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, blocking the votes of millions of Americans. It shows you just how desperate he really is. Ignoring the pandemic that just today killed a record 3,034 Americans. And for the record 100,688 in the hospital.

Ignoring it to fight a doomed losing battle trying to steal our election while Americans are dying. And just to be really clear about who is behind all of this, the attorney representing the current president -- this is what I'm talking about, about reality, OK?

It's Johnny Eastman, recently pushed a racist conspiracy theory falsely claiming that Vice President-elect Kamala Harris was not eligible because her parents were immigrants. We know that's false. The vice president-elect is a natural born U.S. citizen.

Birtherism 2.0 here. It didn't work on former President Barack Obama, it didn't work on the Vice President-elect, Kamala Harris. But that is the kind of thing that the current president and his enablers resort to. When you don't have the truth on your side, you just lie. You just make things up, even try to make up your own reality. You would think that the president's Republican enablers would be

ashamed, but no. House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy says he won't accept Joe Biden as president-elect. On Monday, quote, "why would I do that? I'll wait until all, until it's all over to find out. Every legal vote has to be counted. Every recounted -- recount has to be finished, and every legal challenge has to be heard."

Lot of recounts keep losing over and over, Kevin McCarthy. Why would he do that? Why wouldn't he accept the fact that Joe Biden -- wouldn't he accept the fact that Joe Biden is president-elect? Maybe because that's how democracy works. Why should he accept it? Because democracy should work that way. That's why he should accept the fact that he is.

And then there is Senator Ron Johnson who says that he won't rule the challenging the election results on January 6 when Congress meets in a joint session to accept the votes of the Electoral College. He won't.

Compare that with the incoming administration, President-elect Joe Biden doing the work of governing, appointing the members of his administration, professionals. Today introducing his choice for defense secretary, retired Army General Lloyd Austin who would be the first black man in that position. Biden saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He's loved by the men and women of the armed forces, feared by our adversaries, known and respected by our allies and he shares my deeply held belief in the values of America's alliances.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): We also saw the partnership of the president-elect and vice president-elect, two grown-ups in the room, taking on the challenges facing this country and taking them seriously. Contrast that with the fawning of current Vice President Mike Pence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:20:05]

MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: To know President Trump is to -- is to know someone whose word is his bond.

That's why President Trump was so right.

Greatest privilege of my life is to serve as vice president to a president who is keeping his word to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I remember, it reminded me of that song. It was like a love song. To know, know, know him is to love. It's like a ballad.

Pence by the way has been totally AWOL in the middle of the president's attempts to steal the election. And there is another comparison there. I want you take a look then. Then Vice President Joe Biden priding over joint session of Congress, this was in 2017 when members officially tallied the electoral votes that put Donald Trump in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: I object to the certificate from the State of Georgia on the grounds that the total votes --

BIDEN: There's no debate, and if they're not signed by a senator, the objection cannot be entertained.

UNKNOWN: Mr. President, the objection is signed by a member of the House but not yet by a member of the Senate.

BIDEN: Well, it is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Interesting. It is over. Voting to certify the opposite party's win. When will the current president finally bow to that reality? When will the current president finally show that much class and that much decency? That is the question.

So, let's bring in now CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, good evening to you. Let's talk about all the information that's coming in the breaking news. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton who filed the lawsuit with the Supreme Court to overthrow election results will be at White House tomorrow. What are you learning?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is for a private lunch with the president that right now is not going to be open to reporters. And I'm told that it was already on the schedule, this lunch with a group of attorneys general for President Trump, but of course it's the most notable that the Texas attorney general is going to be there, given it's his lawsuit that the president has been trumpeting over the last several hours. And now that these other Republican GOP attorneys have -- or attorneys general have signed on, the president has been pushing that.

And there are few things to remember here, Don. One being that Ken Paxton is being investigated by the FBI for allegations from his own staff that he misused the power of his office to benefit a political donor. So, keep that in mind. But also, the fact that this lawsuit has been pretty widely dismissed by legal experts.

So, while you're hearing a lot about it from the president and his campaign and his White House officials, we're hearing from law experts they do not think the Supreme Court is going to take this up.

LEMON: Kaitlan Collins at the White House with the breaking news. Kaitlan, thank you. I appreciate that.

The shocking truth is that this president doesn't care about anything other than his attempts to overthrow our election. He doesn't even care about the deaths of more than 3,000 Americans just today. The highest total since the pandemic began, just doesn't care. And that leaves local officials all across this country to fight for what is right.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump is getting increasingly desperate in his attempts to overturn the election results. Tonight, telling a crowd at the White House at the Hanukkah party, he still thinks that he'll win the election. The election is over, he lost in fact, keeps losing over and over and over again. And he is trying to fight reality.

I want to bring in now CNN senior political analyst John Avlon, and former Obama campaign manager Jim Messina.

I love to have both of you, gentlemen. Thank you so much.

John Avlon, the president says he's fighting because the election system is under assault. But the truth is it's under siege by him and the more final his loss has become, it's the harder he fights to stay in power.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST & ANCHOR: Yes. I mean, Donald Trump is all about projection. He says the election system is under siege, it's under siege from him and his legal team. The problem is his delusion is itself a virus that seems to be catching within the Republican Party.

And I don't -- I don't really blame the rank and file but I do blame the 17 attorney generals who signed onto this completely bogus no-show suit because they ought to know better. This is more than just a clown car coup. They are making a mockery of their oath to uphold the Constitution.

LEMON: Why are they doing it, John?

AVLON: Because their hyperpartisanship is a powerful drug and they're letting their hyperpartisanship overwhelm and he claim to be a patriot or to be a defender of the Constitution. That's how bad it is. They're afraid of their base and they're afraid of this president and they're surrendering their judgment at the door.

LEMON: Jim, I don't think it is too dramatic to say that this is disaster and a crisis. I mean, do you think that the incoming Biden administration is being forceful enough given the magnitude of what this president is doing?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Yes, I do. I think they're doing exactly what they should do, which is governing, right? We are in middle of a disaster and there's one president on the stage right now, and that's Joe Biden. And look, I'm not as, I guess as forgiving as your other guest on the rank and file.

We have 88 percent of members of Congress refusing to acknowledge that Joe Biden is president-elect. When you have 17 attorney generals led by the Texas attorney general who by the way is under FBI investigation himself and should worry about his own problems. When they are putting party before country, when are we going to stop calling them patriots? When are we going to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt?

There's this theory in Washington, well, they're just playing their base politics and it's OK, it's all going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Because right now, a big chunk of the country thinks they're getting screwed and thinks this is real and thinks that the president is being honest with them.

And if you're Biden, you have to walk in and try to bring this together. And it is a Herculean challenge, one I think he's made for, but it is getting harder by the day because you have a Republican Party that's complicit in the middle of this and no one is calling them out.

LEMON: Well, --

AVLON: We're calling them out.

LEMON: Yes, go ahead, John, he invoked your name.

[22:30:00]

AVLON: Yes. He sure did. Yes, look, I think Jim fundamentally misunderstood the point I was making. When I say rank and file, like I don't mean members of the Congress, I don't mean elected officials. I don't mean attorney generals. I mean, the Trump supporters, his hard- core supporters who are believing the lies he has spewed because they echoed along hyperpartisan media.

And Joe Biden in order to unite the country has got to find a way to reach out to those folks, we got to find a way to assert reality. Elected officials who ought to know better, attorney general who ought to know better they're directly implicit in this attempt to overthrow our elections, full stop.

LEMON: So, OK. Did you want to say something, Jim, before I go on to another question?

MESSINA: No, no, no. I'm with you. Yes, great.

LEMON: So I hope you guys heard the top of the show about, you know, every night what my challenge is, and what I think -- I'm flummoxed every night, how do I do this, how do I do this, how do I not stand at the edge of the Pacific Ocean or Atlantic and just go. I am yelling at ocean every night.

But, Jim, so this is part of the whole we all have to live in reality part. President-elect Biden is banking that the fever will break so that, you know, he can work with Republicans once he takes office. Is that realistic though?

MESSINA: I mean, for America I hope it is. There's a whole lot of people on both sides who have sat back for the last four years and not done much. And actually want to get some things done. And you kind of see a little sliver -- now I'm going to be the optimist here, Don, and by the way, let me say that you've been amazing.

And Brendan Lang just texted me and said, Don Lemon is the only one out there screaming. So, I get it, and I think you've been great.

I think if you look at these problem solvers' caucus, and what they just did, they kind of both sides said to their leadership hey, we're going to try to cut our own deal to move this thing forward. I think there's a lot of people on both sides who got elected and haven't done much and they're saying look, let's try to make this country better.

The country just delivered kind of a mixed verdict. They unseated only the third president in 100 years, and yet they put the Republicans in charge of the Senate. What they're trying to say is we want everyone to work together. And I think both sides have to do that. I think that's the leadership Biden is offering.

I think the question is, if you're the Republicans, can you deny that there was an election up until January 20th, and then all of a sudden say OK, let's all work together? That's the question at hand, not Joe Biden.

LEMON: Yes. I say it one more time for people in the back, Jim, please, please, please.

AVLON: I mean --

LEMON: Because, that is the thing. This thing, hold on, John.

AVLON: Yes, yes.

LEMON: This is a total referendum, it's a rebuke on Donald Trump and what he cannot accept the fact, to him it's not possible. It's not possible that I could lose --

MESSINA; Right.

LEMON: -- but all the other Republicans on the ticket can win. What were they saying? They don't like you.

AVLON: Yes.

LEMON: They don't like the way you govern. They don't like your antics, they don't like any of this. But they do like the conservative message or maybe the moderate message of the people who were at on the bottom of the ticket. That's what they're saying. And he just can't wrap his head around the fact that they don't like him, but they still want to be Republicans. Sorry. Go on.

AVLON: No, that's moral impossibility for a megalomaniac. But that is the message that what is being sent very clearly. It was not a vindication for Donald Trump. But by the way, there is a reason he never was above 50 percent of approval rating. The only president ever to do so. Look, that is what needs to be done.

LEMON: Yes.

AVLON: But you cannot harness hate --

LEMON: Yes.

AVLON: -- for political gain and then hope all of a sudden, the fever will break when a new president comes in.

LEMON: Yes.

AVLON: Normally it takes a crisis to unite us. I got to tell you something. You know, you said at the top of the show we've had over 3,000 deaths today, that makes us the third deadliest day in American history after --

LEMON: Like in history.

AVLON: -- the Galveston hurricane and Battle of Antietam --

LEMON: Yes.

AVLON: -- what it's going to take for us to realize that we're all in this together?

LEMON: But every day is like that.

AVLON: Yes.

LEMON: It keeps becoming worse. It keeps becoming the most deadly day in American history. Thank you both, gentlemen. I appreciate it. They didn't like you, that's the message. They liked the other Republicans. And to the leaders, to the rank and file, as you said, John, in Washington, that means they might -- they might actually like you but they don't like this guy, so why are you going along with everything that he says? Why are you afraid of him? He should be more afraid of you that you're not going to back him and support him. That is the truth. Now get with it. We'll be back. See you.

[22:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The president openly demanding the election he lost be overturned. As several Republican lawmakers aid and abet his ridiculous efforts. CNN learning that Senator Ted Cruz has agreed to argue a long shot election lawsuit if it reaches the Supreme Court after being personally asked by President Trump.

And Senator Ron Johnson says that he won't rule out challenging the Electoral College results when they come up for a congressional approval that happens on January 6th.

Joining me now is former Defense Secretary William Cohen. It's always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, sir. Good to see you.

You were fired up about this last time we spoke and since then GOP has become increasingly complicit, to the point of some even outright advocating steps to overthrow democracy. What is happening with your party?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, it's not a party. As your previous guest said, it's a cult. There's not a philosophy, it's not a platform, it's simply the worship of Donald Trump and everything that he represents. And people who support him support him because he hates people they hate. So, hatred is part of the concoction that he's really put together.

[22:39:59]

But I's like to turn the subject just a bit. I want to talk a little bit about optimism. I saw Lloyd Austin be introduced today.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That was my next question, but go on.

COHEN: My heart skipped a beat there. I saw a man, a big man, with a big brain and a big heart, who comes to the position of 40-plus, 41 years of service to this country and has nominated now to be secretary of defense, and I felt -- you're now seeing a government taking place.

You're now seeing Joe Biden and Kamala Harris put together a team that is going to lift us up out of this quicksand that the president keeps sinking us into. And I would like to say, the president what he's doing he is putting a knee on the neck of the American people, the democracy, and trying to squeeze the life out of it.

And I see Joe Biden and his team saying we're going to restore confidence in our ability to govern ourselves, and I would like to just pause it or posture Lloyd Austin standing next to President Trump, and you tell me who the leader of this country would be. Tell me why this secretary of defense would not send a signal to the people all over the world what it means to have people of talent, and yes, of color, people who have denied -- been denied that opportunity over the years.

So, I took great heart today. I looked at Lloyd Austin and I said there's somebody who's going to contribute to the welfare of this country, who is going to give us leadership, help the President of the United States really restore and renew a confidence in our ability to govern, renew our relationships, our alliances and give hope to the American people that we can govern.

As opposed to the current president who seems only committed to dividing us along racial, ethnic and religious lines. And I know earlier on this network the question was raised about is there going to be a czar for racial justice? There should be and I have a recommendation. Mitch Landrieu. I think we need someone like Mitch Landrieu who has not moved mountains but he's taken down monuments. Monuments that were standing symbols of a very dark period in our history.

So, I would like to have white people to talk about racial justice. It's always the question of black people have to come on television and talk about racial inequity and disparities and what's happening, their sons being shot down and killed in color for everybody to see.

I want white people to start talking about racial justice and I think Mitch Landrieu would be a perfect to initiate that and try to bring people together. I know him. My wife and I know him, we worked with him. And I think that's another part of the diversity that should be in this administration. Have a white czar for racial justice in this country.

LEMON: And you've seen all the work that he's done around those monuments, and he's been, I men, out front and center before anyone else, and doing about it, documenting it as matter of fact.

COHEN: Yes.

LEMON: You're not going to get any pushback from me, considering he's my homeboy, Louisiana. And listen, I think a lot of folks can talk about race but I think Mitch Landrieu is right up there, and you're right on with that. So, let's see if that happens.

I always appreciate having you on. By the way, before you go, let me just put up, I want to show the Biden, Joe Biden's cabinet and how diverse it looks. There it is. That's what America looks like, right there on your screen. And now back to us.

COHEN: That's what talent, that's what ethical people look like. Those are people who are real patriots dedicated to making this country --

LEMON: Yes.

COHEN: -- not only great but good again.

LEMON: And this is what America looks like as well, you and I on the screen together talking about this. Thank you. Always a pleasure. I'll see you back here really soon, OK? You be safe. Thank you.

The U.S. reporting its highest single day death toll tonight when we may be on the verge of the FDA's approval of a Pfizer vaccine. But when could you actually get one? Stay with us, we're going to tell you.

[22:45:00]

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LEMON (on camera): This is a breaking news and this is a reality that we're in and why we need to all come together. Because more than 3,000 U.S. deaths reported today from coronavirus. That is a new one-day record. And tonight, a record number of people also hospitalized. Almost 107,000.

Meanwhile, we are hours from a pivotal moment in the U.S. war against the coronavirus pandemic. A key FDA committee scheduled to meet tomorrow morning to make their recommendation on Pfizer's vaccine with authorization possibly arriving as early as tomorrow.

So, joining me now to discuss is Dr. Peter Hotez, the director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital. Doctor, good to see you. Thanks so much.

So, let's talk about the FDA committee. They are going to have a daylong meeting tomorrow. Once they issue a recommendation, the CDC will make a final decision. How soon after this authorization will we see Americans getting vaccinated?

PETER HOTEZ, VACCINE SCIENTIST: You know, Don, it's possible it could even be by this weekend. So, it's a really exciting time. Because, you know, without a national COVID-19 strategy, we've put all our eggs in the biotechnology basket. This is all we have really is vaccinations, so we urgently need vaccines and I hope this will be first of several rolling out over the next few months.

LEMON: Yes. Doctor, I have to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back with you on the other side. Don't go anyplace, please. We'll be right back to talk about this.

[22:50:00]

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LEMON (on camera): We're back now with Dr. Peter Hotez. Doctor, thank you so much. I'm long winded, I had a motor mouth sometimes. I went a long I had to sneak break in. Thank you for being patient.

So, let's talk about this. Today Dr. Fauci saying that if the FDA says that the vaccine is safe, the American people should trust them. Listen to him. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If the United States Food and Drug Administration says that a vaccine is safe and effective, I can promise you that I will take that vaccine myself. And I will recommend that my family does that. So, I think the authority should be the United States Food and Drug Administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): An Axios/Ipsos poll finding 53 percent of Americans said that they'd get a first-generation vaccine. How do we get more people on board, doctor?

HOTEZ: Yes, we really need to do that. And by the way, I echo Tony's -- Dr. Fauci's comments. I'm ready to get that vaccine as well. You know, the Food and Drug Administration has the most extraordinary track record of vaccine safety the world has ever seen, a really robust system of approval and also post-licensure or post-release monitoring as well. [22:55:07]

So, we've got a few things that we have to do. First of all, I think once the vaccine is rolled out and we don't see untoward reactions and the efficacy becomes apparent, more people will sign up and take it. So, I'm hoping those terrible numbers we're hearing about 54 percent non-compliance will slowly start to diminish. That's potentially good news.

The not so good news is we really don't have a very good communication strategy coming out of Operation Warp Speed. It's been a fantastic program in terms of scientific rigor and integrity of the clinical trials, but you know, we've left it mostly to the pharma CEOs to do the communication, and they've bungled it quite a bit quite honestly.

And so, we're going to have to put in place a robust system of communication. And not just public service announcements as being proposed but have government scientists up there speaking to the American people on a frequent and regular basis because the other piece to this, where America is somewhat unique, is we have one of the most aggressive antivaccine lobbyist out there and they target specific groups. They --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, that's -- that's what I want to ask you. Let me get this next question in really quickly because I want to -- because I want you to weigh in a little bit more because there's a flood of misinformation about vaccines out there. And people are exploiting that mistrust. So, how do we combat these conspiracy theories? Is it what you're saying, having more experts? I think it may have to be more aggressive than that, doctor.

HOTEZ: Yes, and I tend to be somewhat of an outlier here. In addition to fine tuning the message and shaping the message, one of the things I say, that's only going to get us about 30 to 40 percent of the way there. Because those messages are messages floating in bottles in the Atlantic Ocean.

There's a -- the internet is just inundated with deliberate disinformation coming from focused antivaccine groups all amplified on social media. Facebook, if you go to the vaccination site on Facebook, it's all fake anti-vaccine and COVID conspiracy books.

And then on top of the home grown groups that we have here in Texas and Oklahoma, national groups, we also have the Russian bots and trolls, recent information coming out of U.S. and British intelligence shows us how Russia is flooding our internet with information designed to sow discord and put fake list about vaccines.

So, we have our work cut out for us if we're going to do it. It means an inner government agency where we're going to have to take this on.

LEMON: Yes. I've had a number of people who, you know, I respect very much sending me information, is this true and it was all false and it's all from social media and non-reputable sites. Doctor, thank you. I appreciate your time. We'll have you back. Be

safe.

HOTEZ: Thank you so much.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

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