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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Pardons Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, and Charles Kushner, Jared Kushner's Father; Trump Vetoes Defense Bill Over Social Media Rules and Renaming Military Bases Named For Confederate Icons; More Than 3,300 U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Reported Today, More Than 225,000 Cases; U.K. Health Official: Both New U.K. and South African COVID-19 Variants Are More Transmissible; Postal Service Dealing With Crush Of Packages And Significant Delays Before Christmas. Aired 11p- 12a ET

Aired December 23, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Breaking News. President Trump announcing another slew of pardons, 26 just tonight alone. It includes big names like his former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, longtime Trump ally Roger Stone and Charles Kushner, the father of Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner.

Republican Senator Ben Sasse summing up Trump's pardons spree as "Rotten to the core." The President is becoming increasingly erratic in his final days in office, vetoing the defense spending bill, upending the COVID relief package, calling for a special prosecutor on his baseless claims about the election and even threatening Iran.

I want to bring in CNN White House Correspondent John Harwood; Kim Whaley, a former federal prosecutor and CNN Presidential Historian Timothy Naftali. Glad to have you all here tonight. John, this is chaos. I mean, the President's behavior is becoming increasingly erratic, you got pardons and vetoes and threats. So my, should we expect more of this insanity over the next few days while he is at Mar-a-Lago?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Of course, look, this is what is going to define the end of Donald Trump's presidency. There are two different things going on at the same time.

One is he is blown a gasket over the fact that he lost the election to Joe Biden. Very difficult for him to accept that blow to his psyche blow to his reputation, so he's trying to deny it, spitting out all these crazy, delusional, dishonest conspiracy theories about what happened. It's been shot down in court. Now he's trying to get Republican members of Congress who were scared of him to do his bidding, and try to get them to challenge the certification of the electoral votes on January 6th in Congress.

That's not going to go anywhere. But he's going to keep lashing out and trying to push that. That is related to what's happening on the COVID relief bill in the omnibus, the threat of the veto. That reflects the president lashing out at Mitch McConnell who shepherded that deal. Mitch McConnell having acknowledged a few days ago that Joe Biden is the president-elect, and we're going to move on to deal with the new administration, that's on one track.

The other track, which is not delusional is the president laser focused on using the power that he has, in particular the pardon power, to shield himself going forward. So he has pardoned multiple figures. Forget the friends and family and allies - that that's one category. But the big category is people related to the Russia investigation.

He's been trying over the last several years to absolve himself politically and legally, and he's now pardoning people who participated in his activities with respect to Russia, who lied about it, who have withheld cooperation from prosecutors, withheld information that could be damaging to Donald Trump. He's pardoning them. And I expect before the end, he is going to pardon - attempt to pardon himself. We'll see if it sticks up in court, if he does.

COATES: So, John what's the White House saying about all these pardons right now, tonight, any word from him about it? Or is he just gone?

HARWOOD: No. I mean, the only word that matters in this White House comes from Donald Trump. He's the only person who can speak for himself. That White House is a complete mess, chaos. Most people are - normal people in the White House are going on looking for other jobs. There are some people there who are enabling the president in his fantasies. But this is a one man show. It's Donald Trump. And it's so going to be on stage, whether it's at the White House or whether it's down in Mar-a-Lago.

COATES: Well, Kim set the stage for us here, because the Mueller report noted that Trump dangled the idea of pardons for people like coincidentally, Roger Stone, for Paul Manafort, and now he in fact has not just dangled them, he's pardoned them. Anything illegal about connecting those two dots?

KIM WHALEY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Laura, Attorney General Bill Barr, whose last day was yesterday, when asked by Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy at his confirmation hearings, whether a promise for silence in exchange for a pardon would be a crime. Bill Barr answered that question. Yes.

[11:05:00]

But like all things Trump, the question isn't so much if it's illegal, it's what can he get away with? And in this moment, we have a United States Congress who essentially knowing that the Mueller report mentioned pardon 64 times, didn't do anything about that. And then also, decided not to even really hold it impeachment trial, saying that the whole thing can be resolved in the election. And then we have over 100 Republicans in the House of Representatives of essentially signing on to a brief to take away lawful votes in four states.

This is really damaging to the United States Constitution, because it's setting up a precedent, particularly if the president goes forward and self-pardons, whereby there's essentially no accountability for committing federal crimes potentially in the Oval Office. President's going forward it's a green light for full on crimes in the Oval Office, because there's really no accountability in the office, because you can't prosecute a sitting president. The Congress won't impeach and no accountability office out of office, potentially, because of these pardons.

COATES: Well, you make a fascinating point about the timing that people should be aware of, Kim. I mean, this idea that these pardons came down today, Bill Barr's last day was yesterday. Is there some connection, people should be wondering about why yesterday was the last day, because none of these pardons all of a sudden sprung up. It wasn't like as in Paul Manafort or Roger Stone or Charles Kushner, were just convicted or pled guilty this morning. And this is probably in the makings.

And, Tim, I want to go to you, because I - if you think about what Kim's point is here about that green light. I know you're an historian. You are a marvelous one at that. And I'm thinking about the green lights going forward. But I'm also thinking about it from a historical context here. And I want to hear from you Trump has now pardoned at least five people who are charged in connection to the Russia probe. But no matter how many pardons he issues, he will leave office as an impeached president, right?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I will always be an impeach President. There were two restraints on Donald Trump. One was the impeachment and he got acquitted. The second was his reelection, or his attempt to being reelected. He was not reelected. But there were - so there were two constraints, they both gone away. He is now a little less than a month in order to issue a series of bad pardons.

But what's at stake here is not simply Trump's legacy. What's at stake here is going forward, whether the Republican Party will continue to enable crimes committed in the Oval Office? I want to be very frank about this.

It wasn't simply the Mueller investigation that highlighted the - what Manafort and Stone did, the Senate - Majority Republican Senate Intelligence Committee also made clear that Manafort and Stone's unwillingness to share information vital to U.S. counterintelligence undermined our ability, not only to learn about what happened regarding Russian hacking in 2016, but to protect ourselves in the future.

We have just had another Russian hack. It's a major national security challenge. Our president has just pardoned people who could help us protect ourselves from Russia, and sent a signal to Moscow that their secrets are his secrets.

COATES: To me the idea here that that cyber-attack is not ruling--

NAFTALI: Yes.

COATES: --the day knowing how important it is. And it's because of all the chaos that's been happening. It's not for lack of concern or interest on the part of the media. This is one of many things that have happened. And I think to myself came about that notion, but I always think to myself about the idea that here we are seeing a pardon of a parent of somebody who is the son in law of President Trump, but who could be next? Are there preemptive pardons for Trump's own children, perhaps - his adult children, perhaps even preemptively his own son in law, Jared Kushner, or even himself?

WHALEY: Well, there are actually a few limits on the pardon power. For example, he could not pardon anyone for future crimes. So the minute he leaves office, anything in the future couldn't be touched. But sure, there's a little bit of ambiguity as to whether the pardon actually functions as an admission of guilt.

I think it's really different from actually, as you know - also as a former prosecutor, actually taking a guilty plea before court. That being said, I do think that Kushners and Ivanka would have to think twice about accepting something like that in terms of their own political futures. But for Donald Trump himself, this is a man who came into office and is beloved by his supporters for his willingness to smash norms.

[11:10:00]

And he is he is on his way out the door, taking a baseball bat to every piece of glass that remains in the White House, and in that the sanctity of the Oval Office. So I would not be surprised to see a self-pardon. The problem there is there's no way to get the constitutionality of that before a court unless the Biden administration were to prosecute him, and he decides after the fact to basically to raise it as a defense to a prosecution. I don't see a Biden ministration using its political capital to do that.

So, again, this is - what my concern is as a constitutional scholar, he could be creating a precedent for essentially bulletproofing crimes in the White House. And that's no longer government by We the People, it's government by We the politicians, we the powerful, and that's not the premise on which this country was founded, whether Republican or Democrat in 2020.

COATES: Absolutely. It's not. I mean, it sounds - you're describing sounds like the person who is a monarch and autocrat, a dictator. Instead, we don't have this system here for a reason. There was a rejection of that.

And Tim, I mean, in your new piece, you write about, frankly, how vulnerable this country is not only to what Kim's talking about, but too bad pardon. So why has this power, this very powerful tool of pardoning, how has it been possible that it's been left unchecked?

NAFTALI: Well, after Bill Clinton pardoned Mark Rich, who's so ex-wife had given a lot of money to his foundation, there was a lot of talk in Congress about amending the constitution to restrict 11th hour pardons. In fact, Barney Frank, a Democrat, came up with an idea for a constitutional amendment.

The problem is it's very hard to amend our Constitution. It's a good thing normally, but generally speaking, there are a number of things that ought to be amended, and it's very hard to do so. Amending the constitution would require, of course, three-quarters of the states and two-thirds majorities in both Houses of Congress. That's what it would take.

But this issue of the problem of 11th hour pardons when presidents are on their way out the door, when they no longer have to worry about public sanction, that's actually been talked about for a number of years. The problem is we've got a constitution that opens up the possibility for bad pardons, because our framers concluded in the end that the fear of impeachment, and the fact that Americans are unlikely to elect corrupt presidents were enough of a check on the pardoning power, and sadly, that turned out not to be correct.

COATES: Indeed. And of course, we'll keep looking at this issue. It goes from the hypothetical esoteric discussions in law school classrooms to now here we are in 2020. John, Kim, Tim, thank you so much for your time tonight. I appreciate all of you so much. Thank you.

NAFTALI: Thank you.

COATES: President Trump is vetoing a massive defense spending bill today. He's putting pay raises for troops, and equipment and upgrades and cyber security, ding, ding, ding - cyber security upgrades, and a whole lot more on the line. So what happened to the president who said this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For our military, I just want to let you know, there's never been a president that has your back like I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:00]

COATES: President Trump vetoing the National Defense Authorization Act, which passed Congress with wide bipartisan support. It's a $740 billion defense package that includes pay raises for troops, equipment modernization, and provisions for increased cyber security.

A version of the bill has become law every single year for 59 years. Here to discuss CNN Military Analyst General Wesley Clark, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, the perfect person to speak to this issue. Welcome, General Clark, because you know, earlier in the day, before this pardoned spree, the president vetoed the defense bill. So can you please describe to us what is this message to the men and the women in the military? What are they hearing from this action right now?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the one hand, they might hear it as business as usual. They know there's a lot of conflict and strife in Washington. But on the other hand, it's not business as usual. This was a very solid, bipartisan defense bill that cast assent with an overwhelming majority, a veto proof majority. It had a pay raise in it for the military. It said that we need to really carefully consider and think again before we pull troops out of Europe.

It had important measures for military research and development. And it gave us the foundation to continue to be able to prepare ourselves against both Russia and China. So it was a very well thought out and a long anticipated defense bill. When President Trump vetoed it, for the people in the know, this was a shock.

COATES: Shocking. And the fact that Trump singled out Section 230 of the Communications Act in his veto, calling it a very dangerous national security risk. It's really about, frankly, his social media grievances. So what do people in the military think about the commander in chief, holding up funding, holding up pay raises, equipment modernization, cyber-attack, beefing up the security, because he's got beef with Twitter?

CLARK: Most of - the people on the military are going to be loyal to the United States Constitution. So when President Trump gives a lawful order, they're going to obey it. They're not going to be talking publicly outside the chain of command or within the chain of command about the president of United States.

But I think it's clear that in their hearts, especially the people who are in the upper echelons of leadership, they know this president for what he is. They're not supporters. They're not surprised. They know he's cynical. They know he's not patriotic. They know he's not a supporter. And so, I think they're looking forward to the next administration coming in. And they're worried about what's happening in the White House over the next 30 days.

COATES: There's a lot of what's happening as well about sort of looking back and symbolic gestures as well, and about the idea of acknowledging that America has progressed in many ways and changed in still others and has more work to be done. But the President is also against the bill's requirements to change the names of military installations that are named after Confederate soldiers and slave owners.

Now, it's 2020. And the President is standing up for the Confederacy in a way that many can't wrap their minds around. Does that make any sense to you?

CLARK: Doesn't make sense to the people in the military, I can tell you that. Now, most of the military people, when they come in, and they go to Fort Bragg, when they go to Fort Benning, or they go to Fort Hood, they haven't really thought about the names, and most of them didn't know who General Hood was or Braxton Bragg was.

But after it became popular in the newspapers to talk about it, and you read about it, I think its commons sense you're asking why are these forts named after these Confederate generals? Not only were the Confederate generals, but actually they were losing Confederate generals. They were Traitors to the United States of America.

[11:20:00]

So it raises some profound questions. And so they - the Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the senior leaders all agreed, let's put the past aside, let's move forward. Let's get names on these ports that all Americans can respect and it reflects our country. Unfortunately, President Trump doesn't want to do that. He's appealing to a certain part of the Republican Party, he believes. I think he's mistaken.

COATES: Meanwhile, the military serves us all. And I want to hear your reaction to President Trump's decision to pardon four American security guards who were involved in the now infamous Blackwater massacre. I mean, 17 unarmed Iraqi civilians shot to death in 2007, including nine and 11 year old boys. I mean, this is egregious, is it not?

CLARK: It is. It is egregious and it should not have happened, and it's going to have significant repercussions in Iraq. People are already they're outraged about this. It shows that American justice doesn't really mean what we believe it means. We always take pride. We're the nation of laws, we do what's right. We would never commit a war crime. And yet, look at this president. This president pardons war criminals.

COATES: So profound and it makes you shudder to think about the repercussions of this abroad. Thank you. Thank you for your time and your service, as always.

Tonight's pardons are coming on the back of the president vetoing a defense bill, upending a COVID relief package his own White House had a hand in and calling for a special counsel to investigate his false election claims. 28 more days of the Trump presidency, what will come next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:00]

COATES: Our breaking news, President Trump issuing 26 pardons tonight, some of the big names getting this early Christmas gift. Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort; longtime Trump ally, Roger Stone; and Charles Kushner, the father of the president's son in law, Jared Kushner.

Joining me now former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent and Ron Brownstein, Senior Editor at the Atlantic. What a night gentlemen, what a night to behold. And I suspect, not the last of a series of pardons. Ron first on these pardons, you say we didn't end up here in one day, that there's a reason we ended up here. So tell me, what is that reason?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, you don't get here in a day, Laura, and you don't get here on your own. The only way that President Trump got to the point of undertaking actions that were so egregious, that so flagrantly violate the rule of law, and the traditions of the American presidency, is that step by step, week by week, month by month, year by year, Republicans in Congress have been able abetted and defended him as he has moved further and further out into more indefensible activity.

I mean, not what one Republican in both chambers of Congress thought it was worthy of sanction when he openly extorted the Government of Ukraine. There was no objection when he tried to weaponize the Postal Service. There was no objection, as he has tried to tilt the census, intervene in criminal cases.

They have gone step by step with him. And now we are in this place, where this is just simply embarrassing. It is almost pathetic. He is he is turning U.S. into some kind of parody of a tin pot dictatorship. And all of those Republicans, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy, who have defended him and allowed him to move the country in this direction, they look like the hangers on in the last days of kind of an adult and erratic dictator who have traded their dignity for some momentary self advantage.

COATES: I mean, Charlie, you must have reaction to what Ron is saying. Do Republicans own this the way he's talking about?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes. Laura, I think, look, Ron is correct. There has been far too much enabling of a man who has been so currently unfit for office for a very long time. Sadly, many of these actions that we missed over the last couple days are unsurprising, shocking, disturbing, alarming, violating the rule of law. Yes, but we are where we are.

And we're sadly we're going to have to deal with this chaos until he's gone. And I'm so sad that more in my party have not stood up much earlier in bigger numbers and pushed back on so many of these outrages over the last few years. So now, we're stuck him--

COATES: Explain why, though. I mean, why do you think it is they haven't done. That's always a question. And I don't mean it rhetorically, I really am wondering, why do you think they haven't?

DENT: Well, I think it's simply out of fear - fear of primaries, fear of losing their power, being defeated. That's - I think it's really just about that, maintaining power, having access to power. I don't think there's anything more than that.

Most many of these my former colleagues, they are every bit is alarmed and outraged by his behavior and been terrified by it. And, frankly, many of them are going to be glad when he's gone. I just wish more had spoken up in bigger numbers.

People like Adam Kinzinger, Denver Riggleman, Tom Reed, Brian Fitzpatrick, others tread often have stood up at various times, but not enough have. And I think that's been the problem. If more people speak up in Congress, they can help move the base. I've always said that, it's about pressure. Move the base.

COATES: And by the way, many of the people you named aren't even staying in office. So perhaps there's some rhyme or reason to the idea of not speaking up, even though I don't condone it. Ron, I have to ask you. It's been seven weeks now - seven weeks since the president lost the 2020 election. And suddenly, it seems like he's coming out of some sort of a stupor all of a sudden, why do you think he's deciding to now - to now throw his weight around?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, the clock is ticking, and I think he sees his options for trying to find some way to overturn the election dwindling, and he wants to use the remaining weeks of his presidency to sow as much chaos as he can.

I have a slightly different view than then Rep. Dent. I think that it isn't only that they fear him. I think that there's more to it. I think one that they are dependent on the same voters as he is. The entire party now has reoriented in a way that is losing ground in urban centers and an inner suburbs and is dependent on massive turnout of the Trump base.

[11:30:00]

You see that in Georgia with Perdue and Loeffler, endorsing a lawsuit to disenfranchise their own voters simply because they thought it would help keep them in the good graces of President Trump. And I also think a shocking, really and discouraging number of Republicans basically are willing to go along with these violations of the rule of law if they think it will allow them to keep power.

I mean, the question is how many Republicans would have stood up if President Trump's efforts to subvert the election were showing more signs of success with Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy had said wait a minute, this is too much. I'm not going to overturn democracy just to keep four more years.

I don't think there's a lot of evidence from their behavior in the last four years. The answer to that is yes. So we are talking about a kind of a deeper spread in the party that is going to be something we're going to be living with for quite a few years now.

COATES: What you both described makes the case that President-Elect Biden has worked cut out from him, if that's the case. If the idea of the College having all these votes already issued still isn't enough, this hopefully will not be a Sisyphean presidency. But who knows?

Charlie I got to ask you, look at President Trump's Christmas week chaos here. I mean, he's signaling that he may not sign the COVID relief bill. He issued waves of controversial pardons. he vetoed the defense spending bill. And now he's calling for a special counsel to investigate his baseless voter fraud allegations. I mean, just think what the next 28 days are going to look like?

DENT: Well, yes, he's been wrong on all counts. I mean, and this - as a guy who was a former member of the Appropriations Committee, I am just not surprised that he has stood up and said he was going to veto the COVID Omnibus spending bill, which he had a hand or his people had a hand in negotiating.

He's done this before. And, it's really - it's sad. It speaks to his unfitness, his erratic and chaotic behavior, and not operating in good faith. I mean, it's horrible. Then to think that we're going to have a - he's talking about special counsel now, it just never ends.

By vetoing the National Defense Authorization Act, because he does -- he's concerned - he doesn't like the idea of we might change the names of bases name for Confederate traitors, or he's not happy about the size of the stimulus checks, which his people agreed to at $600. Now, he wants 2,000.

I mean, this man, he's - look, he's, he's, he's on a wrecking ball mission right now. I mean, he's on a rampage. And he doesn't seem to be concerned whatsoever about the needs of the American people, or men and women in uniform, frankly. This is what we're dealing with. And, if you're not offended by this behavior now, you'll never be offended. I mean, it's--

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Well, one GOP official - I hear you. Sorry to cut you off. Excuse me. Ron, one GOP official is venting now about Trump's veto threat on the COVID relief bill, talking about what Representative Dent was speaking about. And the bill says that he has nothing to do with the size of the checks to Americans or spending - this veto has nothing to do with that. The official says it's all about Mitch McConnell, and John Thune, acknowledging the inevitable. You think that's really the motivation here? Is he right?

BROWNSTEIN: I think it probably is a lot of the motivation. And I think in that way, the erratic 1159 intervention of the President, throwing these thunderbolts at Republicans is probably a good preview of what they have to look forward to in the next few years as they tried to set their course in the Biden presidency with Trump disparaging them from the sidelines.

And they really have put themselves in this position to where they have basically ensured that they will be under his thumb by so many of them failing to stand up to these baseless claims of voter fraud. They're allowing him to walk away with three quarters of the Republican base, convinced he didn't lose, it was stolen from him.

And, obviously, it gives him a lot more leverage in the party. They have made this bad, Laura, I mean, they have made this bad four years of diligently abetting, enabling and looking away from all of the serial outrages, all the ways in which he has introduced the rule of law, demean the image of American democracy in the world. And now they are getting kind of a final blast of what the cost is on the app, but it's not the final bill, because I think they're going to be paying it for years to come.

COATES: Well, you know, unfortunately, the American people write those checks. And so that bill will be distributed - against all of us and we'll have to pay in the end. Gentlemen, thank you for tonight and happy holidays.

BROWNSTEIN: Happy Holidays to you.

DENT: Thanks Laura. COATES: Relief, it can't come soon enough for millions of Americans.

Hospitalization hitting record highs for a third day in a row. Millions unemployed, worried about food and housing. And my next guest is just one of them. She's a mother of seven facing eviction. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:00]

COATES: Tonight, coronavirus hospitalizations hitting record numbers for the third day in a row. The CDC is now projecting as many as 93,000 more deaths in just the next three weeks alone.

As Americans hit the road, traveling for the holidays, by the way, the TSA is reporting close to 1 million people traveled through airports just yesterday alone, and that's got a lot of experts and everyday people worried. Joining me now, CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner.

Doctor, I'm so glad you're here tonight. I mean, look at these pictures. Look at them from airports around the country. You have sounded the alarm. I mean, Dr. Fauci has sounded the alarm. Doctors and experts across the country are warning about this making the pandemic worse. A million people alone yesterday? What do you had to say to people who are traveling right now?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Don't travel, stay home. Look, why is this happening? It's happening because we have no leadership in this country. Large parts of the U.K. are locked down, because the British leadership understands what's going on in that country.

But what do we have here? Well, the Mad King has just gone down to Florida. And the vice president of United States, who is the head of the pandemic Task Force, is going skiing in Colorado. He's going to ski.

[11:40:00]

Our hospitals are flooded with patients. Our frontline workers are barely keeping their heads above water, and our pandemic chief is going skiing in Colorado. I love ski. I would love to be skiing now. I'm not skiing because we're in a pandemic. We need leadership in this country. People need to stay home. It's the only way to stop this pandemic from killing.

As you said, Laura, about 90,000 more people in the next few weeks, stay home mask up and hunker down. Vaccines are on the way. We vaccinated a million people last week. It's a great start. But we can't pretend like nothing's happening. But that's what our leadership has had us do.

COATES: You don't have the leadership, a lot of people in this country, they may not be skiing, but they're going downhill. And the wind that they feel in their hair is because they're standing outside in food lines, trying to try to get some semblance of normalcy or food in their cabinets. And let alone the fact that people are trying to get this vaccine.

And you talking about leadership, Dr. Reiner here, and we're seeing that some states are even disregarding the guidance on who should get vaccines first. And I'm putting up on the screen for you to see here. You can see health care workers and nursing home residents are clearly in the first group recommended to get the vaccine. But leadership in say the State of Florida where the President is today, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, well, he doesn't agree with that. Just listen Dr. Reiner to what he said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): They've now said, well, you should do essential workers and 75 and up at the same time. The problem is people that are 73, 74 would be in the back of the line for a young 21 year old worker who's considered "essential." That doesn't, I think, makes sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Doesn't make sense. I mean, what impact could it have if more states start to follow suit here and decide their own priorities for who to vaccinate? Is there a consequence of this?

REINER: Yes, so this is what happens when the CDC is pushed to the side and when the federal government outsources all this to the states. You get, basically, what I've called Darwinian federalism, right? Survival of the fittest.

And what the governor of Florida doesn't understand is that if you don't vaccinate the health care workers first and they get sick, you have no one to take care of the people who are filling our hospitals. If you don't vaccinate the people who deliver the food, or who process the meat, or protect the streets or put out the fires, you have no people to do that when they get sick. So there's a rationale for doing this. And unfortunately, the governor of Florida doesn't quite understand it.

COATES: I mean, there's that old saying, when we can go on a plane again, the idea of put on your mask before securing others. And the idea of trying to just say, I'll do it, the guidance with no real foundation for saying so other than preference, it's just befuddling to so many people.

And the U.K.'s health Secretary Dr. Reiner, he says that they have now found a second COVID variant there. He says this one's even more concerning than the other one. So do you think this is just the tip of the iceberg on these variants? How concerned should we really be about not only these variants, but whether it's here in the U.S.? And whether the vaccines that are out now and more that are forthcoming, will they be able to counteract them in some way?

REINER: Well, answer the last part of the question. First, it looks like the vaccines will be effective against these current variants. But the more really important longer term issue is making sure the United States has the kind of genomic surveillance systems that we're really lacking now.

And again, you know, these this is the kind of information that the Biden team needs to understand as they come in. This is why the transition and the lack of cooperation from the current administration and is so important.

The incoming CDC and the incoming pandemic team needs to understand what needs to be fixed first, and what needs to be repaired, in the first months of the administration and they don't have that kind of data.

I'm not so worried about individual variant. We've had a lot of variants and sort of different strains since the beginning of this pandemic. These particular variants do appear to be significantly more transmissible, and that is concerning, but it does look like our current vaccines will neutralize them. But we need to be prepared going forward.

COATES: Dr. Reiner, thank you for all that you do for the clarity for the information, for the service. I appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure. Thank you, Laura.

COATES: The fate of a $900 billion COVID relief bill is in jeopardy. Tonight, as we speak, lawmakers are concerned that President Trump could just torpedo the deal that they have agreed on. This is after months of painstaking negotiations. And that stimulus is desperately needed by many Americans.

[11:45:00]

People like Nawaal Walker, a single mother of seven, who's facing eviction from her two bedroom apartment. And she was planning on moving to a bigger home earlier this year, but then the pandemic hit and she lost her job as a counselor at a rehab center in March. And now she is struggling to buy the basic necessities her family needs.

Nawaal Walker joins me now. Nawaal, thank you for joining, the show today and for sharing your personal journey and the experience of your family. You know, it's really unbelievable to think about what you are going through what so many are going through, you're facing eviction. You say even buying soap is a struggle. Can you can you tell us how you and your kids are getting through all of this? People need to hear from you.

NAWAAL WALKER, MOTHER FACING EVICTION: First, I'd like to say thank you for having me. And it's been a very rough year for all of us. How we get through it is not something I can say is for everyone. But we're very strong and in spirit. We're a family that loves heart, and prayers, everything, and that's all I can say as far as that concern.

But as far as my logic, I save everything. So it was a good thing that I might have saved the soap from my trip and my live use it, because if I didn't find it, I wouldn't have been able to have soap because that was the week that my unemployment stopped. So I have to choose between buying toilet paper, if it's available, and paying my bills.

I have to shout it through mobile say hey, if you turn off my phone, I can't look for a job, if I can't look for a job what's the point. Same thing with Spectrum. Spectrum turns my service off December 10 - no, December 11th. I explained to them on the 12th that I would have called the day before, because I actually just started working. So I'm starting to slowly pick myself out of the hole that I'm in now.

So, I called them to tell them, I apologize that I made the $150 payment the day before, but I had just found out that my father passed away. My children, my older children may not be children, but they're still young adults, and they're learning their way and they were trying to manage it. So I wouldn't be burdened.

And Spectrum refused to help them and turned off my service and then made me pay $354. My children didn't get to go to school that day. They didn't get to do any of their assignments, on top of knowing they can't go to their grandfather's funeral. And I had to overdrawn my bank account. So now I have a negative account, because of this.

And I told Spectrum, I said you know what, I'm coming out you out because this is ridiculous. Its inhumane. You know what is necessary for everybody to continue on. But you need that check so badly? Really? There's got to be something like - when a CARES Act stopped, everything stopped. The rent, people took a support. Lights about to get turned off, phones are getting turned off, Internet's getting turned off. It's like--

(CROSSTALK)

WALKER: Clearly running on my desk.

COATES: You're not. You're not running from it Nawaal. You're not asking for a handout, none of this is your fault. And yet the burden is resting on your shoulder. I'm so sorry to hear about your father.

(CROSSTALK)

WALKER: He had a chance this December to make changes and to protect us all. And he decided to make a joke about it instead. It's not it's not a joke. Now, who's the joke on now?

COATES: Nawaal, no one's laughing. This is something that is happening all across this country. What you're having to endure, what it puts your family through. I mean, the strength of a mother, the strength of you having to be strong for everyone and your children you know are watching you. And I hope that you know, what they see is when I see, which is somebody very strong and resilient. And I pray that you will get through this along with so many other people.

And I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your father. And thank you for taking the time to tell the world what it's like for everyday people - every one of us every day, trying to make ends meet. There's no rope. I appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK) WALKER: It's your help. I spoke to someone else and I said to her. She asked me how - make your family go, when you couldn't do - when you can't get your house.

[11:50:00]

COATES: It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Nawaal, thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: So, Christmas is upon us, and I have some bad news for anyone waiting for packages to be delivered. The U.S. Postal Service is overwhelmed by a crush of holiday packages this year and is experiencing a significant backlog. Is there a link to the big changes made to the U.S. Postal Service this year? Well, here's CNN's Cristina Alesci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN SMITH, PRESIDENT OF THE POSTAL WORKERS IN METRO NEW YORK: We just don't have enough rooms in the stations to deal with all the mail.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York Metro area Postal Union President Jonathan Smith says the post office is handling more mail than ever before. This year 3 billion parcels will be delivered during the peak holiday season by all major carriers, that's 800 million more than last year.

SMITH: It's an impossible task to keep up.

ALESCI (voice-over): And impacting Christmas mornings around the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things I ordered, never came on time. They're not going to call on time. I ended up canceling or they said they were delivered, and they weren't.

ALESCI (voice-over): The backlog also affecting small business owners like Alicia Christiansen in Michigan. She refunded $800 in sales of our hand painted aluminum wreaths because of postal delays. She's getting messages like this one from customers. The wreath is not here yet. Can you please find out where it is?

ALICIA CHRISTIANSEN, OWNER "BENDABLE BLOOMS" ETSY SHOP: I'm not counting on them, because I had to shut my shop down because I can't rely on the flowers to get there before Christmas.

ALESCI (voice-over): Alicia is not alone. These photos show thousands of packages piling up at a postal processing center in Philadelphia. A lot of anger directed at Postmaster General Louis DeJoy appointed by Trump earlier this year. He faced criticism over the summer for removing large mail sorters and implementing cuts to overtime and post office hours, leading to concerns that election ballots would not arrive on time. He reversed, of course before the election. LOUIS DEJOY, U.S. POSTMASTER GENERAL: I think the American people can feel comfortable that the Postal Service will deliver on this election.

ALESCI (voice-over): DeJoy was even questioned about Christmas during a congressional hearing this summer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have capacity now for Christmas and Mother's Day?

DEJOY: Yes, we have capacity for Christmas and Mother's Day,

ALESCI (voice-over): But some postal workers feel like DeJoy made promises without supporting the monumental challenges they're facing now.

SMITH: All of the decisions that join me is affecting the way that we are able to do our job.

ALESCI (voice-over): In a statement, a Postal Service spokeswoman told CNN. "Unlike last year, we are managing through a historic record of holiday volume this season, compounded by temporary employee shortages due to the pandemic.

[11:55:00]

Private carriers like FedEx and UPS are also feeling the heat. Both have issued their own warnings about delays. UPS even placing shipping limits on some of its largest retailers, including Nike and the GAP, a luxury the United States Postal Service does not have. It does not impose limits and the agency often has to absorb the packages, these private carriers turn down.

ALESCI (on camera): What kind of stress have the UPS and FedEx restriction put on the U.S. Postal Service?

SATISH JINDEL, PRESIDENT, SHIPMATRIX: In last few days we're receiving 6 million packages a day more than what they would have otherwise have handled if it was not for those restrictions.

ALESCI (voice-over): On top of the crusher demand the impact of the coronavirus as nearly 19,000 posts workers are in quarantine. That's more than double the 8,000 workers before Thanksgiving.

SMITH: I understand the frustration of the American public. We're doing the best we can. Don't confuse the comma for period, because we will get you your packages.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Thank you, Cristina. And thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.