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Don Lemon Tonight
House Votes To Increase Stimulus Checks For Struggling Americans From $600 to $2,000; TSA Announces Almost 1.3 Million People Flew On Sunday; Biden Accuses Trump Appointees Of Obstructing His Transition Team On National Security Issues. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 28, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, CNN CO-ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: "CNN TONIGHT" starts right now.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
TEXT: BREAKING NEWS.
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DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I am Don Lemon.
I'm in this hour for my friend Chris Cuomo who is taking some much- needed time-off. And we've got a lot of breaking news for you tonight, so don't go anywhere, all of its coverage for you.
The House narrowly passing an increase in stimulus checks to Americans from $600 to $2,000. It now goes to the Senate. And it comes after the President's sign-off on the $9 billion -- $900 billion relief package, last night, after delays -- days of delays, and calling the bill a disgrace.
The President causing chaos, as he waited to sign the deal, allowing unemployment benefits to lapse, for millions of jobless Americans. The deal was one that, his, own team, by the way, helped to negotiate.
And another important vote tonight to tell you about, the House, overriding the President's veto of the Defense Authorization Act, the bill that sets the spending agenda for the Defense Department.
Both of tonight's votes setting up a loyalty test for Senate Republicans when they take them up next week, so the Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, in particular, we're talking about, while President- elect Joe Biden slamming the current administration for what he calls "Roadblocks" and "Irresponsibility" when it comes to transition meetings about foreign policy and national security.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have encountered roadblocks from the political leadership at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget.
Right now, we just aren't getting all of the information that we need for the ongoing outgoing -- from the outgoing administration, in key national security areas. It's nothing short, in my view, of irresponsibility.
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LEMON: So they're going to take those up tomorrow. All of this happening as the Coronavirus pandemic is raging on right now, record hospitalizations. Dr. Anthony Fauci saying that holiday travel could produce a surge upon a surge.
So much going on tonight, I want to bring in CNN White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, CNN Political Correspondent, MJ Lee, CNN's Senior Political Analyst, and Senior Editor for "The Atlantic," Mr. Ron Brownstein.
So good to see, all of your faces, here again, after a week. I hope you had some time-off and a great Christmas. And we're looking forward to the New Year.
In the meantime, good evening to all of you, Kaitlan, I'm going to start with you. Lot of chaos and drama, created by the President, holding up the stimulus bill. I have been trying to figure it out. What was this all about? Does anybody know?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, Don. Not even his own staff really is clear as what was behind this because when the President put out that video, last week, threatening to derail this bill, that he did finally sign, even though nothing in it had changed, they were shocked.
They did not know the President was going to put that out. Very few people knew that the President had even made that video and recorded it.
And so, if you spoke to people, over the last several days, a lot of them said they didn't know if there was a strategy at all, and to what was behind the President's push for these $2,000 stimulus checks.
And of course, now we're going to see that it's going to go up for a vote in the Senate. We don't really know where that's going to go.
But the question was, you know, why didn't the President push for this sooner? If this was something he wanted, he never made that clear during the negotiations that had been going on for weeks. And so, a lot of people said that maybe the President just wanted attention during this.
Of course, this has been a period where the President has tried to command headlines. And so, if he actually had wanted the $2,000, he didn't push for it very much. And so, it left people even unhappy that he had given up so quickly, and did sign the bill yesterday.
So really, if you talk to people around the President, no one is happy with how this has worked out or what this path that the President had chosen to pursue was.
LEMON: Yes, it seems like it was all for spite, for Democrats, or his perceived enemies, but it ended up hurting the American people who need that help right now.
Kaitlan, another question for you. Now that the House has voted to increase direct relief payments, you mentioned the Senate. You don't know where it's going to go. But let's talk about the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. He's looking at a major loyalty test right now.
COLLINS: Yes, he is. And you've seen the President has already lashed out at him, Don, because he just simply acknowledged reality, which is that Joe Biden has won this election. And so now, he is going to be faced with this decision about whether or not to bring this for a vote.
And it's really is uncertain future, in the Senate, of what's going to happen here, because the President said in his statement, last night, when he actually finally signed this Coronavirus relief bill that the Senate was going to bring this for a vote.
But if you noticed, in McConnell's statement, last night, he didn't even mention it. And a lot of people saw it as unrealistic.
So, where that's going to go, given Republicans weren't even happy with the $600 stimulus checks that they're going to now vote for $2,000, you know, it really will be a test of how much power does the President have over Senate Republicans, and how fed up have they gotten with the antics that they've seen come out of the White House, and these decisions that he's made without any consent from people in his own Party.
LEMON: Ron, I got to tell you, just watching this as much as you can, as a layperson, over the holidays, right, because I was spending some time-off and not working, it was -- it's embarrassing. The President is just embarrassing himself.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Yes.
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LEMON: And really ruining whatever legacy that he has acquired, since he's been in office. These stimulus checks, Ron, were already slated to go out as soon as this week.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: Though, that timing could slide, according to an administration official. Then the President comes in. He delays the deal for a week. I mean it's not just politics. There are real -- this real -- this impacts Americans -- BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: --who are counting on this money.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, embarrassing -- embarrassing is the right word, Don.
Because I mean, as I've said, we send people from the United States, all over the world, trying to teach countries how to stand up a democracy. And here, we have a president, who is literally tearing it down day by day with the acquiescence, if not active support, of most members of his Party.
I mean, the 11:59 intervention in this bill, as Kaitlan pointed out, if he actually wanted to affect the substance of this bill, he had not only weeks, he had months, in which to intervene, but he was completely checked out, on this bill, as he has been on the broader pandemic itself, even though we are reaching --
LEMON: And focusing on bogus voter fraud claims.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Focusing on his, own grievances really.
LEMON: And overturning the elections.
BROWNSTEIN: Right. I mean focusing on his, own grievances. I mean, since the election, he's been focused on trying to overturn the election.
He has been pressuring the Justice Department to appoint special prosecutors, aimed at his political opponents. He's been dolling out pardons to his cronies and confederates, and all while being AWOL on what is becoming an almost unimaginable national security challenge.
When we've been saying that we're living through a 9/11 or a Pearl Harbor a day, well the projections from the University of Washington is that the month of January could exceed even that astounding death toll.
We're talking about maybe 100,000 projected deaths in the month of January from COVID, and the President is simply AWOL on it while he's nursing his own grievances.
And again, his Party is abetting this by essentially raising no complaint, as he is checked out on this enormous national security change, maybe the biggest facing the country, since World War II.
LEMON: MJ, I'm going to get to Joe Biden in just a moment, but standby.
I got another question for Kaitlan here. Kaitlan, I want to talk about the other vote on the Hill tonight, the one that over-road the President's veto on the defense spending bill. Another blow to the President!
COLLINS: It is. And we could see the President have his first full override, if the Senate does override this as well. That's where it's going next.
And so, if that does happen, the President is going to be leaving office, with only a few days left. And it will be the first time that we've seen this kind of a rebuke, his entire time in office, where he has never faced this before.
And the President has voiced several complaints about the defense policy bill. A lot of them senators, even Republican senators say is irrelevant.
And of course, this is something that typically passes without a lot of fanfare. And this is a president who often brags about what he's done for the military. And now he's threatening to withhold it.
And if you ask him, Don, he'll give you 10 different reasons why. It's either about China or it's about big tech and social media. There are several different reasons that come from the President as to why he thinks that he needs to veto this.
And so, whether or not, that actually happens is going to be a big question. But if they do actually override it, it is going to be a massive rebuke, of the President, by members of his own Party, who are in a tough position, right now, of siding with the President, or siding with the military, in this bill that gives troops, among other things, a pay raise.
And so, that's going to be a big test. And if he does face that massive rebuke, I have been told that the President has been talking about this whether or not this is going to happen.
And so, only time will tell whether or not it's actually going to go forward, but it is certainly a possibility that the President could see a massive rejection, by some members of his own Party, in his final days in office.
LEMON: MJ, let's talk about the incoming president now, the President- elect Joe Biden, trying to keep his cool, when speaking about the Trump administration's help with the transition today, clearly frustrated.
MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Clearly frustrated and, I think, also clearly alarmed.
This briefing that he received today from his national security and foreign policy agency review teams, they were supposed to tell him about the work that they have been doing, with the Trump administration, to get filled in on everything that they should know.
And clearly, the message that these team members, sent to Biden today was "We are not getting what we need."
I think, you know, we talk a lot about how unusual it is, and how extraordinary it is the Trump's lack of public concession, the lack of full cooperation, the delays from the GSA and all that.
But actually, if you look back, on the last couple of weeks, Biden has largely been pretty restrained, not wanting to be too critical, even during the delay process.
But today, we heard a really different tone. And I think it is not an accident that we heard a different tone, when he was talking about especially the issue of national security and foreign policy.
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This is obviously somebody who has been at the White House for eight years, as Vice President, knows how important these issues are, and particularly knows how important a smooth transition of power is, and how important it is for these folks that he met with today, virtually, to have all the information they need, so that when he takes office, on January 20th, he is fully, fully briefed on every national security threat that he should be aware of, as the next president.
LEMON: And a particular frustration in his transition he is noting with the Department of Defense, I want to listen in, MJ, what you'll respond.
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BIDEN: For some agencies, our teams received exemplary cooperation from the career staff in those agencies. From others, most notably the Department of Defense, we encountered obstruction from the political leadership of that department.
And the truth is many of the agencies that are critical to our security have incurred enormous damage. Many have been hollowed out in personnel, capacity and in morale.
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LEMON: So, when he talks about certain agencies having their morale hollowed out, what is he referring to?
LEE: It was really striking the distinction that Joe Biden went out of his way to draw between career professionals and political appointees.
He referred to some of these career folks as patriots, who have been fully cooperative, throughout this transition process, and then he turned to some of these folks, particularly he said, at the DoD, political appointees, who have been engaging in obstruction.
When he talks about sort of the morale being hollowed out, morale being low, at some of these agencies, clearly, he is talking about the politicization of the transition process.
Don, there are people, who go into this kind of line of work, who are committed to doing this kind of work, regardless of the political party of the president, whether it's a sitting president or the incoming president.
And clearly, he is seeing that a process that should be as apolitical, as the transition process has been politicized and he wanted to make that distinction, and also wanted to recognize, that when career professionals see this kind of politicization happening, yes, that is going to hurt morale.
LEMON: I've got to ask you, Kaitlan, about this -- there is this new effort that's underway to overturn the election by Congressman Louie Gohmert, other Republican allies.
Before you tell us about that, I had spoke to some of our legal experts, and they said that this was -- what did they say? It was a complete -- it was a pipe dream, a totally mangling of the Twelfth Amendment and election law, I mean, our electoral law.
What is going on here?
COLLINS: Yes. And to see conservatives hold something like this up, and try to rely on something like this, to achieve what they want, given what, of course, they all can rely on with the Constitution, is really something.
And that's what we're seeing with a Republican Congressman, Louie Gohmert, filing a lawsuit, against the Vice President Mike Pence, in just another effort that is incredibly farfetched, but you're seeing how more desperate they're getting, by each effort, to try to overturn the results of this election.
And in this lawsuit, Don, what he's basically arguing is that the Vice President has more of a deciding role than what he actually does in reality on January the 6th, which is just ceremonial.
It's a procedural process where technically Pence does oversee it. You saw Biden do it, after Donald Trump won the election, in 2016.
And so, the thing is, though, this is actually registering with the President, and he's increasingly looking to, his top deputy, in Pence, to try to cause a disruption, on that day, in addition to the House Members that we've already heard from, and of course, Tommy Tuberville, the Senator from Alabama, who has voiced opposition, and talked about what he could potentially do, on January 6th, even though Mitch McConnell has said he doesn't want any Republican senators to object on that day.
And so, what is going to be interesting here is not what's going to happen with this lawsuit because it's not going to go anywhere, like you said. Legal experts have really dismissed it.
But it's the position that it puts the Vice President in, who has always had to weigh his loyalty to the President with siding with him. And this is going to be the ultimate test of that as --
LEMON: Yes.
COLLINS: --this is someone who has future political ambitions, who wants to run for president. And so, what does he do to try to maintain his loyalty to the President, but also not ruin his reputation by disrupting it.
LEMON: Not as long as Donald Trump is around. Sorry about that Mike Pence, never ever going to happen. It's not going to happen. Hey, Ron, I have to go. But just can you weigh the last word on this because --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, real quick.
LEMON: But let me just get this in.
BROWNSTEIN: I mean just to underscore it --
LEMON: Let me get this in real quick.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: We said it's embarrassing.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: Republicans have become the Party of "The Gang Who Can't Sue Straight." Do they have any shame? Don't they have any shame?
BROWNSTEIN: They are operating in a, you know, they've kind of seceded from kind of common facts and kind of common purpose in the country. Within the closed circle of the Republican Party, Donald Trump has convinced 70 percent of his voters that this election was stolen. They are responding to that.
We've seen academic studies that shown that the share of Republican voters, who are open to kind of anti-democratic ideas, if that's what it takes to keep power, is astonishingly high.
And I think what we are seeing now, Joe Biden may be overly optimistic that all of this is going to evaporate when Donald Trump leaves office.
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These are structural divisions kind of underlying centrifugal forces that really are going to make it very challenging because all of the changes in this society that are triggering so much of this, among the Republican base, the increasing diversity, ethnic diversity, racial diversity, religious diversity, none of those are reversing.
So, it's easy to imagine a pattern, through the coming decade, where an increasingly diverse society is reflected in an increasingly diverse Democratic Party, and that generates this kind of backlash among Republicans, particular because so few of their leaders are showing any interest in standing up to it.
LEMON: Yes, thank you all. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon. Be safe out there.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
LEMON: So, listen, I just want to say this to the -- the Trump supporters out there, the folks who are, and the lawmakers, and the people who are saying that the people who are not being honest with the voters, the Trump supporters who believe this election is stolen is that you are dismissing their beliefs and -- and writing them off, and not being respectful of their -- no, you're not. That's not what's happening.
That means you are being honest, and you're treating them like adults, and that you're not pandering to them. That is the ultimate sign of respect, when you tell people the truth and you do it in real-time.
There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud from all Republican attorneys general, from the Supreme Court of the United States, from the Republican electorates or electors in those states, no signs.
So, the people who are not respecting you are the ones who are lying to you, who are grifting off of you, who are getting you to give money to believe that this election was stolen. It was not.
Stop following crazy people and believing in crazy people. Believe in the people who are respecting you and telling you the truth, OK?
President-elect Joe Biden says the DoD is obstructing his transition with just 23 days to go until the Inauguration. I'm going to ask the Chairman of the House Intel Committee what he thinks about that. There he is. And maybe he'll have -- he'll respond to what I just said.
Congressman Adam Schiff is here, and he is next.
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TEXT: BREAKING NEWS.
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LEMON: So, here's our breaking news, the House voting to increase relief checks to Americans, overriding the President's veto of the defense funding bill that as the President and his allies in Congress continue their efforts to overturn the election.
And joining me now is the Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, and that's Congressman Adam Schiff.
Congressman, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. I hope you had a great Christmas and you've having a great holiday season.
So listen.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Thank you. It's good to be with you.
LEMON: Absolutely.
The House just passed the provision in the stimulus bill that would give $2,000 for people desperate for help. Now it goes to the Senate. What are you expecting Leader McConnell to do? SCHIFF: Well, I expect, sadly, that he will fight it, try to avoid his members having to cast a vote on the substance of it.
But, look, you've seen the food lines all over the country. People lined up for miles long, trying to get food for their family, for the holidays, trying to keep a roof over their head, trying to keep their small businesses afloat. There's no question about the need out there.
And, yet, the same Mitch McConnell and Senate Republicans that thought "Well we have plenty of money for a $2.2 trillion tax cut for wealthy families or large corporations" now seem to say "We can't afford to help these families in need during the worst pandemic in a century."
I think the real deficit here is less the financial one, but it's a deficit of values. But nonetheless, I expect Mitch McConnell to try to fight it. At the same time, he's already having defections from some of his Republican members.
LEMON: Well let's talk more about this, Senator, because now the vote to override the President's veto in the -- of the defense funding bill will go -- it goes to the Senate.
But tonight, Senator Bernie Sanders is threatening to hold up the vote unless Leader McConnell brings a vote on the $2,000 checks to the floor. What do you -- what do you make of that?
SCHIFF: Well, I think this is Senator Sanders' effort to make sure that Mitch McConnell can't sweep this under the rug, can't simply try to hide it, or get passed it quickly, in the hope that no one is paying attention to the fact that he and his members are trying to keep $2,000 checks away from Americans, who desperately need the help. So, I think that's what Senator Sanders has in mind.
I'm not an expert on Senate procedure. But I have to think that anything that forces the Senate to pay attention to this, to bring the national focus to any efforts by Mitch McConnell, to obstruct getting help out to the American people, puts McConnell in a very difficult position, as it does these two senators from Georgia.
I can tell you I wouldn't want to be running for re-election, having just voted against helping the families in my district. I can't imagine these Republican senators from Georgia relish that prospect either.
LEMON: Look, you are the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. What did you think when you heard the President-elect say that the Trump Defense Department is not working with his transition?
SCHIFF: Well, it wasn't surprising because we have seen them stonewall that transition in many ways, but particularly around the Defense Department. And my reaction was this is just dangerous.
It's dangerous because the President is making decisions, right now, in the last few days of his administration, that affect our defense significantly, drawing down troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, without consulting with our allies, tweeting about potential conflict, military conflict with Iran.
And if the new administration, the incoming administration, isn't being brought up to speed on what Donald Trump and his Defense Department are doing, then we're really vulnerable during that period when Joe Biden first takes office. So, it's dangerous.
But look, we have known, from the first days of this presidency, and it will be true, until the last days of this presidency, Donald Trump doesn't care about our national security. He doesn't care about the welfare of the American people. He only cares about himself. That's all he's been thinking about.
How else can you explain him, out on the golf course, when people are starving, holding up this relief bill, and now, you know, vetoing the defense bill, except these are acts of personal peak, of a president who sees himself leaving office, and deeply vulnerable, as a former president.
LEMON: Who obviously is trying to hang on to it with a grip of, you know with -- who knows.
I got to ask you this because it goes with, with the question that I asked before the break, and what you just said.
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He's pushing this, you know, on January 6th, the day Congress ratifies the Electoral College vote, as a day that he can overturn the election. He wants to make a spectacle of the vote, and he is really making a spectacle of himself and his supporters.
Will this work, Congressman?
SCHIFF: No, it won't work. But it will do enormous damage. And he already has.
By proceeding in this anti-democratic path, by somehow normalizing an effort to overturn a democratic election, in what is supposed to be the strongest democracy in the world, he's creating a permanent class of aggrieved citizens, who think the presidency was stolen from him. So, it does immeasurable harm.
I mean this crazy, frivolous lawsuit, of course, will fail. Whatever stunt they have planned for the joint session of the Congress will fail. But it is remarkable.
Republicans who, after the election, said "Let's just let Donald Trump acclimate to losing, let him save face. He'll get over it. He'll move on," of course that never happened. It was never going to happen. And they have continued down this path, legitimizing the illegitimate.
Those same senators, Don, who said during the impeachment trial, "OK," effectively acknowledged he was guilty, but said "Let's let the voters decide," are now saying "No, let's not let the voters decide," revealing that those enablers, in the House and Senate, what it's all ever been about for them, is the maintenance of power, at any cost, and that is a tremendous disservice to our democracy.
LEMON: It's always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, Sir. Happy New Year to you.
SCHIFF: To you, too.
LEMON: Thank you.
This is the deadliest month since the pandemic began. Yet, the country is setting travel records. Just how bad will things look in just two weeks?
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LEMON: So, here's what the experts are warning that we could see a surge on top of a surge in the wake of this holiday season.
Almost 1.3 million people passing through airport security checkpoints, that was just yesterday, the busiest day for air travel since March, according to the TSA. All that holiday travel is likely to make an already bad situation worse.
So, joining me now is Dr. William Schaffner. He's a Professor of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University.
Always good to have you on, thank you, Sir.
Let's see. Where do we start? Record hospitalizations reported, again today. We passed 334 hundred -- 334,000 total deaths. Still, the latest IHME forecast says that an additional 200,000 or more could die between now and April.
We are hearing of ICU shortages and overwhelmed health care workers. The real crisis, at this point, OK, that's what we are, we're at a real crisis, at this point, even with the vaccine starting to roll out. So what do we do? Where are we? What's going on?
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Well, here we are, and we have to keep urging people to revert to the usual things we've been saying all along. Sometimes I think it's futile, but we have to keep saying it, Don. Wear your mask, social distancing, those are very important.
Yes, we're starting to vaccinate. But the goal to reach 70 percent, 80 percent of people vaccinated, that's months away.
In the meantime, there are people's lives to be spared, and we can do that if we all act together, if we're not impatient, and we recognize that it's the long haul. Clearly we need to do that.
I must admit I'm a little frustrated. You cited the travel statistics over the holidays, over Christmas. We look forward -- do we look forward to New Year's Eve parties with people gathering together, and they're not going to be wearing masks? We're going to have another surge in the beginning weeks of the New
Year that will rival what happened after Thanksgiving. We're going to be in deep doo-doo, I'm afraid, in our hospitals. We're already stretched to capacity.
LEMON: Well, let me ask you the question that people are -- want to know at home.
Why am I following the rules? Everybody else is traveling. Everybody else is, you know, parties and, you know, families of 20 and whatever over. Why am I following the rules, because those people are going to become super-spreaders, and it's not -- it's not going to help my situation, so why do I do it?
SCHAFFNER: You are doing it, first of all, to protect yourself. And by doing it, you will protect yourself, and the people you love and your friends. You're also doing it, doing your share, to protect your community. And of course we ask everybody to do that.
This is a matter of self-protection and protecting those around us. It works both ways. This mask, so cheap, so easy, it's an inconvenience. But gee whiz, an inconvenience that can save lives? We really need to do that.
LEMON: So I've got to ask you about the CDC says that while almost 11.5 million doses of the vaccine have been delivered, only 2.1 million doses have actually been administered, right?
You talked about this a little bit. We are unlikely to hit the 20 million doses the administration previously touted. Why are we so far off pace, Doctor?
SCHAFFNER: Well, that was an aspirational goal. And you've heard me say this before, Don. Never overpromise and under-deliver. Under- promise and then over-deliver. We're starting very carefully.
If our own medical center is an experience, we've done a lot of education, Q&A with all elements of every group that works here in the medical center. And now we have everybody wanting the vaccine, we don't have a slot available for vaccination that isn't immediately filled.
So, we've got to do that. We don't want to foul it up in the beginning. It's like a motive -- locomotive. Those wheels turn a little bit slowly first, bump-a-bump-a-bump, but then they get going.
And I think we'll continue to do that, particularly now that we have the Moderna vaccine that can go out, into the rural areas, small hospitals, local county health departments, and we can start delivering the vaccine, throughout the country, in a much more efficient way.
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LEMON: Dr. Schaffner, always a pleasure. Thank you, Sir. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon. SCHAFFNER: My pleasure.
LEMON: Yes.
Tensions between the Pentagon and Joe Biden's transition team leading to a call-out for -- a call-out from the President-elect. He's warning Trump appointees' actions could be exploited by the country's enemies.
The former Director of National Intelligence, Mr. James Clapper, weighs in, right after this.
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LEMON: President-elect Joe Biden accusing the Trump administration of obstructing his transition, and warning it's putting your country, our country, at risk.
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BIDEN: We have encountered roadblocks from the political leadership at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget.
Right now, we just aren't getting all of the information that we need for the ongoing outgoing -- from the outgoing administration, in key national security areas. It's nothing short, in my view, of irresponsibility.
My team needs a clear picture of our force posture around the world, and our operations, to deter our enemies. We need full visibility into the budget planning underway, at the Defense Department, and other agencies, in order to avoid any window of confusion or catch-up that our adversaries may try to exploit.
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LEMON: Let's discuss now with the former Director of National Intelligence, Mr. James Clapper.
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Good to see you, Director. Thank you so much for coming on.
So, he's talking about obstruction at the Pentagon and unclear picture of Armed Forces in operations. How damaging is this to our national security?
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, it could be potentially quite damaging, Don, not knowing the specifics here, but having participated in a couple of transitions. Bush/Obama and then the attempt to transition from Obama to Trump, even under optimum conditions, this is a very awkward time.
And in the two experiences I had, there was never any thought or any discussion about holding back any information. And this is particularly crucial now, with the pandemic, with things around the world, the Russian hack. So, to me, it's unconscionable that the current administration is holding back anything.
There needs to be as smooth as possible a transition. And, of course, this is a time for mischief, by adversaries, who understand that this is an awkward time for the United States.
LEMON: The Acting Secretary of Defense saying tonight that more meetings have been scheduled. A source telling CNN, one was added tonight, two were approved on December 23rd, but that critical meetings remain outstanding.
What kind of a disadvantage is the Biden administration facing under these circumstances?
CLAPPER: Well, the better condition would be the complete sharing of information to include current issues, current problems. And if any of that is being held back, then that is going to detract, after January 20th, from the process, by which the new administration gets up to speed.
So, it is to the country's advantage that as much information be conveyed as freely and openly and transparently as possible now to save time when the next administration is in charge.
And depending on the situation on the issue, this could be quite -- could be quite distracting, I'll put it this way.
LEMON: Director, tonight, the House voted to override the President's veto of the National Defense Authorization Act. This will allow the creation of a National Cybersecurity Director. Is this what's needed to prevent cyber-attacks like we saw earlier this month?
CLAPPER: Well, creation of a position or anything bureaucratic in and of itself is not going to necessarily preclude an attack of the magnitude that we apparently suffered.
But it certainly would be a great asset to have someone in the White House who can oversee a cyber-reaction not only across the government, in the government -- and with the same local officials, but importantly with the commercial sector as well.
And having that position established in the White House is -- and which carries with it the authority, and the weight of the White House, which I think could be very helpful, should we have a recurrence of such an attack, and not to apparently been caught flat- footed like we were.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, it's getting really close to the time that this President is going to leave office. 23 days left in office. Your biggest concern for the next few weeks?
CLAPPER: Well it's -- the imagination runs wild here on what -- on what the current administration and, particularly, the President, as impetuous and irrational, as he is, particularly of late, there is no telling what other things he might do, particularly the invoking of some military action, someplace around the world, which could get very complicated, and this would not be an optimal time to do that. So, I worry about that. I worry about the Intelligence Community
missing something. Those are the kinds of things that bother me.
LEMON: Director, good to see you. Happy holidays to you. Happy New Year. I'll see you soon.
CLAPPER: And the same Don. Thank you.
LEMON: A suicide bomber, identified in that Nashville explosion. But have investigators figured out a motive yet?
The latest on the investigation, right after this.
[21:45:00]
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TEXT: BREAKING NEWS.
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LEMON: So, here is the breaking news, police just releasing new body cam video, capturing that exact moment that an RV exploded in Nashville on Christmas morning.
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(VIDEO - NEW BODY CAM VIDEO OF NASHVILLE CHRISTMAS DAY BOMBING RELEASED BY METRO NASHVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT)
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LEMON: Investigators are still trying to determine a motive for the blast that injured at least eight people, damaged more than 40 buildings. Joining me now is CNN's Martin Savidge.
Martin, good evening to you. Thank you so much for joining.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don.
LEMON: Authorities were able to identify --
SAVIDGE: Sure.
LEMON: --the suspect pretty quickly. But are there any clues as to a motive? That's what, at first, people were saying. "Well who is he?" Now they want to know why.
SAVIDGE: Right. Right. And why, really, is an important question, not just for the public's curiosity, but why -- what motivated him? Because if it motivated this person, might it motivate someone else, somewhere else, to do the similar or same thing?
You know, I will say about that video, that body cam video, I have seen the whole thing. It is stunning.
And people should watch it, because it's a tribute to the dedication and bravery of the first responders, in this community, not only as they try to warn people to get away. But after that shattering blast, they then run in to the hell on that street, facing the unknown, and doing it very bravely.
As to the clues, there are lots of clues. There is no doubt about that. Authorities have gotten over 500 tips. And it's quite possible, within those tips, from the public, someone has suggested what may have been the motivation for Anthony Warner. But law enforcement hasn't made that public.
The other clue could be where this explosion took place that we know it took place in the tourist district of Downtown, Nashville. But early on a Christmas Day morning, obviously, it wasn't meant to kill a lot of people.
It clearly was meant to do a lot of damage. And it was parked outside of a key communications facility for AT&T, through which a lot of the internet and cellular calls through a large section in the Southeast went. So, was that the target? And if so why?
Some have suggested he had a -- kind of paranoia, the new 5G system that was rolling out, but authorities won't comment publically about that, but you can bet they're looking at it, Don.
LEMON: Let's talk about these images, and we'll put them up here, the image of the explosion site. They are just devastating.
There they are, up on your screen now.
It really -- it looks like it is a war zone. That's what it looks like. At least eight patients were --
SAVIDGE: Yes, yes.
LEMON: --were treated at Nashville hospitals, after that explosion. How is everyone doing, and how extensive is this damage, Martin?
SAVIDGE: Well, those that were injured are doing very well, at least we're told. No one is facing life-threatening illness, or disability, as a result, which is amazing, when you look at the damage there. How that no one else died beside the bomber is really almost miraculous.
Before, we had seen imagery from the ground, and you sort of saw a burn spot off of the distance. This new footage, that CNN was able to get, shows you the impact, and it is quite stunning to look at.
People in this area are still nervous. There's still a large area of the section that people cannot get to.
Tomorrow, authorities will begin allowing some people back into the periphery of the blast area that's essentially property owners and maybe some residents to look and do a little bit of damage assessment. You are going to need structural engineers to get in there before you really know how bad the damage is. We know at least one building collapsed. Whether the others are -- you can save them or not, that remains to be explored still yet. The investigation has always been top of mind right now.
LEMON: Martin, I know you have a lot of work. Standby, I want to bring someone else in. Thank you, Martin Savidge, I appreciate that.
SAVIDGE: Yes.
[21:50:00]
LEMON: Chris Swecker, he is the former FBI Assistant Director for the Criminal Investigative Division.
Chris, thank you for joining us. So let's talk about this.
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Hi, Don.
LEMON: Let's kind of -- say they are -- they are speaking with the suspect's mother, who -- she's been cooperating, right, according to the investigators. Was the -- was this suspect, on law enforcement's radar? Did he raise any red flags with anyone that you know about?
SWECKER: No. It doesn't appear that he did. I mean he had a -- he had a marijuana conviction, back in 1978. But he appears to have led a fairly quiet life.
He did have a license to handle explosives, so you would -- you can surmise that he knew a fair amount about explosives. But he weren't -- wasn't one of those people that pops up on law enforcement's radar screen as some kind of threat.
The only people that would have known about any threat that he would present would be the people close to him, like his mother.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I want to ask when -- usually when something happens like this, right, the investigators will determine whether it's, you know, what sparked it, whether it was home-grown terrorism, domestic terrorism, foreign terrorism, or whatever. Especially if it's a person who is Middle Eastern descent, people deem it as terrorism.
Why is this not -- is this -- why is this not terrorism? And why aren't investigators talking about that?
SWECKER: Yes. I think they're still collating some information.
If he -- if he uses social media, and email, and text, and all those different things that weren't -- weren't around 20 years ago, you know, they're still collating that information. It takes a little bit of time to get the returns back from the carriers, based on the subpoenas and court orders.
But there aren't any indications that there was some political ideology. There's no manifesto.
There's no -- usually people are flashing red, and they're telling people things, and they're leaving clues, and just sort of putting things out there, in various ways, that people that are close to them will pick up on, and possibly be that early warning radar for law enforcement to report it. But that didn't happen here.
LEMON: Even with, you know, Martin says that there -- they were talking about this "Oh 5G thing," but investigators didn't want to discuss it, but they were looking into it. That is a QAnon sort of conspiracy, if that is indeed. We don't know. But he says they were talking about it.
Where would that lead us?
SWECKER: Yes. Then you might say that is domestic terrorism. It might be lone-wolf domestic terrorism. If that is the motivation, that means he's been on the internet.
And they have seized -- the FBI have seized all his devices. And there should be some internet search history. There'd be -- there should be some take there, if you will, some evidence on all of these various devices that they took from the home that would lead us to some motivation.
LEMON: Yes. Again, we don't know that. Martin Savidge mentioned it, and that is out there. So, we'll see where the investigation leads. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you joining us.
SWECKER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: We'll see you soon. Be safe, happy holidays to you.
SWECKER: Thank you, Don
LEMON: Now, I want to bring in Nashville Metro Councilmember, Freddie O'Connell.
Thank you, Councilmember. I appreciate you joining us.
FREDDIE O'CONNELL, NASHVILLE METRO COUNCILMEMBER: Glad to be here, Don. Thanks.
LEMON: This was Christmas morning in Nashville, and they had already been dealing with so much there.
O'CONNELL: Right.
LEMON: Tell me, you know, take me through that day. What was it like? How did you first find out, about what happened?
O'CONNELL: Right. It was very unusual morning, because I started hearing about the explosion, literally at the moment that our daughters were tumbling down the stairs.
So there's this sort of this noise, in our house, and then all of a sudden I'm hearing "Hey, did you hear that? Did you feel that?" And I am starting to come to realize that there has been an explosion of some kind, in Downtown, Nashville.
And so, I immediately reached out to a contact in the Mayor's office, didn't hear back immediately, started to hear more of these reports, and then we started to realize this was very likely not like a gas explosion, that this was in fact an intentional act of terror and destruction.
LEMON: Yes. As I said, you guys have been dealing with --
O'CONNELL: Course of the day.
LEMON: Sorry, say again?
O'CONNELL: Right. I mean I was going to say, I mean that's the thing right?
You realize, "Oh my Gosh! We thought we made it to the end of this miserable year," and here it is Christmas morning, in Nashville, unique among American cities, is having to, deal with something like this.
LEMON: Yes, that --
O'CONNELL: I mean it was just!
LEMON: Yes, because your bars, your restaurants and shops have already been having a tough time because of COVID. The impact that this incident has had --
O'CONNELL: Right.
LEMON: --on the City, talk to me about that.
O'CONNELL: Yes, so this is tough because you look at it, and you say "OK, this is the entertainment district."
But this is also an area where you've got these music venues down below, these retail and restaurants, down below. But up above, there are hundreds of residential units, condos, apartments, et cetera, sprinkled throughout that area.
So, Christmas morning, I started to realize pretty quickly that we had dozens, if not hundreds, based on how many people were traveling, or whatever, people turned out into 19-degree-weather having to suddenly seek emergency shelter and housing options in all this.
[21:55:00]
And then, by the end of the day, when we realize how extensive an incident this was that federal authorities had arrived on the scene, it was pretty clear that people were not even going to be able to get back in there.
So we've now got people dealing with looking for medicine, searching for lost pets, those kinds of things, like these concerns that haven't really been there, as we've looked at the investigation, and the crime scene, had the suspect, and all of this conversation happening over here, it's upturned so many people's lives that are my constituents, and that's also have been a real challenge.
Meanwhile we had this like just massive AT&T outage that impacted even people on other providers because of the, you know, those sort of critical way that the AT&T infrastructure affected mobile.
They've got their own AT&T fiber service and other telecommunication services in the area, you couldn't fly in or out of Nashville International Airport, until some of the critical elements of that were resolved.
Finally, it's a historic district, and I mean just seeing some of the latest, as journalists have been able to get in there, little bit more today, and seeing some of the footage from those folks, and first responders, this historic district is simply devastated. I mean these are buildings that have been there since the 19th Century.
LEMON: I got to know. I got to tell you, I know firsthand, because we were flying in to Nashville airport, last year. We did our New Year's Eve show, from that district. And I mean people are packed into that area. You guys are so proud of that area.
O'CONNELL: Right.
LEMON: It's so beautiful, the new hotels, and businesses, and music venues, and restaurants and clubs, it's just an amazing area with lots of people of all different varieties and just diversity.
And so, it is -- it's awful that it happened, but lucky that there weren't mass casualties.
O'CONNELL: But we're all --
LEMON: Yes.
O'CONNELL: Right. That's, I think, by the end of it, we were all -- everybody in Nashville was breathing this huge sigh of relief --
LEMON: Yes.
O'CONNELL: --that as each hour ticked by, as each minute ticked by, no serious injuries --
LEMON: Yes.
O'CONNELL: --no life-threatening injuries, no -- it was not a mass casualty event.
LEMON: Yes. Well --
O'CONNELL: That's where the silver lining we're looking at.
LEMON: Well we want to thank you. And listen, I know it's Christmas. You said your own kids were bounding down the stairs, were getting ready for Santa Claus, I'm sure.
O'CONNELL: Yes.
LEMON: So, we're glad that you're here. We're glad that you're safe. And we thank you for appearing on this program. Thank you so much. Be well.
O'CONNELL: Thanks for your interest in this.
LEMON: Thank you.
O'CONNELL: Thanks, Don. Thanks. Bye.
LEMON: Millions of Americans paying the price for the President's behavior, but what does he really care about most? I'm going to tell you. My take is next.
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