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Don Lemon Tonight
Senate Votes On The Arizona Certification Results; Fourteen Days Of Trump A Must-Watch Behavior; Mayhem In U.S. Capitol A Stain In U.S. History; Cabinet Members Resign On 11th Hour; Too Late For Impeachment. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 06, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
UNKNOWN: Ms. Collins?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Coons?
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Cornyn?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Cortez Masto?
SEN. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D-NV): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Cotton?
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AK): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Cramer?
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Crapo?
SEN. MIKE CRAPO (R-ID): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Cruz?
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Aye.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Daines?
SEN. STEVE DAINES (R-MT): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Duckworth?
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Durbin? SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Ernst?
SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Feinstein?
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): No
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Fischer?
SEN. DEB FISCHER (R-NE): No.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Gillibrand?
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Graham?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Grassley?
SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA), PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE, United States SENATE: No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Hagerty?
SEN. BILL HAGERTY (R-TN): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Harris?
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Hassan?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Hawley?
SEN. Josh Hawley (R-MO): Aye.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Heinrich?
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-MN): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Hickenlooper?
SEN. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D-CO): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Hirono?
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): No.
UNKNOWN: No? Mr. Hoeven? SEN. JOHN HOEVEN (R-ND): No.
UNKNOWN: I get excited.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Hyde-smith?
SEN. CINDY HYDE-SMITH (R-MS): Aye.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Inhofe?
SEN. JIM INHOFE (R-OK): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Johnson?
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Kaine?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Kelly?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Kennedy?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Aye.
UNKNOWN: Mr. King?
SEN. ANGUS KING (I): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Klobuchar?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Lankford?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Leahy?
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Lee?
SEN. MIKE LEE (R-UT): No.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Loeffler?
SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R-GA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Lujan?
SEN. BEN LUJAN (D-NM): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Lummis?
SEN. CYNTHIA LUMMIS (R-WY): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Manchin?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Markey?
SEN. ED MARKEY (D-MA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Marshall?
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): I.
UNKNOWN: Mr. McConnell?
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Menendez?
SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Merkley?
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Moran?
SEN. JERRY MORAN (R-KS): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Murkowski?
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI, (R-AK): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Murphy?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): No.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Murray?
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Paul?
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Peters?
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Portman?
SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Reed? SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Risch?
SEN. JAMES RISCH (R-ID): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Romney?
SEN. Mitt Romney (R-UT): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Rosen?
SEN. JULIE ROSEN (R-MN): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Rounds?
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Rubio?
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): I.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Sanders?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Sasse?
SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Schatz?
SEN. BRIAN SCHATZ (D-HI): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Schumer?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Scott of Florida?
SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Scott of South Carolina?
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): No.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Shaheen?
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): No.
UNKNOWN: Mrs. Shelby?
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Sinema?
SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-AZ): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Smith?
SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Stabenow?
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Sullivan?
SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Tester?
SEN. JON TESTER (D-MT): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Thune?
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Tillis?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): No.
[22:05:00]
UNKNOWN: Mr. Toomey?
SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Tuberville?
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Aye.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Van Hollen?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Warner?
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): No.
UNKNOWN: Ms. Warren?
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Whitehouse?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Wicker?
SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Wyden? SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): No.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Young?
SEN. TODD YOUNG (R-IN): No.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): So, what we just saw, was senators vote down the first objection to Joe Biden's electoral vote tally in Arizona. Then they're going to proceed to the House to continue on with this process.
By the way, a process that was interrupted by domestic terrorists, insurrectionists who stormed the capitol after being incited by the president of the United States himself, this morning.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Thank you so much for joining us, especially on an evening like this. We have never seen a day like today, but America is still standing. The capital, is gratefully still standing. And the Congress is back to business, the business of the American people, certifying Joe Biden's electoral votes.
I have a lot to say about what happened, and we're going to get that. We're going to keep watching this on the floor, we'll continue on in just a moment. Let's get back to the floor of the Senate.
And what we're waiting for, in this lull in the silence, we're waiting for the final tally and the gavel, you heard from the no's that this will be voted down. This process will continue on, with others Arizona is the first one to be introduced. And we're going to go through all of them this evening here on CNN.
As we have been saying, this is democracy in process, the capitol is still standing, our government is still running despite the chaos and the anarchy that happened today.
Let's go to CNN's Phil Mattingly who is standing by in Washington for us as we wait on the tally and the gavel to come down. Phil, I said a day like no other, and we're in the middle of this process, yet our government is till up and running. Take us through what's happening now and what have to come?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so what you are going to see here very shortly as Vice President Mike Pence will announce the tally. And Don, you nailed it. This is going to fail, this objection to the state of Arizona's electors will fail and it will fill catastrophically for the members who decided to bring this objection.
Now what does that mean? Anytime a member of the House, and a member of the Senate joins together to object to a slate of electors both chambers recess, have a two-hour debate and then have a vote. If either one of those chambers votes that objection, consider it dead, they come back together to a joint session and they move on.
Here's where things stand right now. Vice president Mike Pence is about to kill the Arizona objection. The House, because of what transpired earlier today, is moving about an hour behind. They don't need to kill it. They will. They will vote it down in large numbers as well. Then they will reconvene and move on to the next states.
Here's where things get interesting based on what we've seen over the course of the last six or seven hours.
[22:10:01]
A number, a number of Senate Republicans have simply changed their mind. The group of 11 that was aligned with Senator Ted Cruz that wanted or said publicly they plan to object or at least support objections to at least one state, several have changed their minds.
Senator Steve Daines, Senator James Lankford, Senator Marsha Blackburn, Senator Bill Hagerty, they are changing their minds right now and citing what they saw in the United States Capitol, and frankly, what they were rushed away from in an evacuation with capitol police earlier in the day.
Senator Kelly Loeffler she stood up and said she planned to object to Georgia. You could remember her at the Donald Trump rally in Dalton, Georgia, pledging first words out of her mouth she would object and she would support the president. She will no longer object.
So that will shorten the night. It will shorten the number of objections. But after Arizona, we do expect -- we do know, my colleague Lauren Fox reporting that Josh Hawley, obviously the Missouri senator who was the first one out of the gates to object, he will still object to the state of Pennsylvania. He will, however, yield back his time. Maybe that will take a little bit of time off things. He only gets five minutes, so it's not like it's a super generous thing that he's doing right now given they get two full hours.
But, Don, right now, I think the biggest news that we're seeing -- we know these objections are going to die. We know what the outcome is going to be. You know Joe Biden is going to be inaugurated on January 20th. But the fact that Republicans who were dead set on objecting after what they went through, after what everybody in the capitol went through --
LEMON: Phil, I want --
MATTINGLY: This is Mike Pence, real quick.
LEMON: There we go.
MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The objection is not sustained. The secretary will notify the House of the action of the Senate informing that body that the Senate is now ready to proceed to joint session with further counting of the electoral vote for president and vice president. Majority leader?
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: Mr. Vice President, so colleagues, here's where we are. We have a few more speakers now as we wait for the House to finish their debate and vote. Expect the House to finish voting on Arizona between 11.30 and midnight.
As unanimous consent, the Senate be in morning business with the following senators permitted to speak for up to five minutes each. Senator Toomey, Senator Rubio, Senator Collins.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: And on our side, Senators Wyden, Hirono, and Coons.
MCCONNELL: Finally, following their remarks the Senate stand in recess so did to call the chair.
UNKNOWN: No.
UNKNOWN: Maybe not.
UNKNOWN: No.
MCCONNELL: OK.
UNKNOWN: We're going to keep going.
UNKNOWN: So, we'll figure it out.
MCCONNELL: The Senate will be in a period of morning business with the following senators permitted to speak there for five minutes each. Toomey, Rubio, Collins.
SCHUMER: Wyden, Hirono, and Coons.
UNKNOWN: Without objection.
LEMON: OK. So, what they're doing now is trying to figure out what they're going to do since this was delayed, really pro forma here.
Let's get to my colleague Phil Mattingly. Phil, as you said these are going to fail. The first one is Arizona. First objection you heard soon-to-be in the minority, right, Mitch McConnell, minority leader. Mitch McConnell saying the House should finish their vote between sometime between 11.30 and midnight, so this is going to be a long night for each of us.
Just to clarify, I want to -- because could you just give me a rundown of the folks who are going to vote to stop this process and those who have decided not to? So, they said there were six. Is that Ron Johnson, John Kennedy, Like Braun, Cynthia Lummis, Roger Marshall, Bill Hagerty and Tommy Tuberville? Am I correct? Are those the six that voted?
MATTINGLY: I believe. I didn't catch them all in real-time. I think the more interesting element of that is that there used to be 14.
LEMON: So, who are the ones who said - yes, it used to be 14, right. Who are the ones who all of a sudden because of this -- which maybe this may have been the thing to break the fever. Who are the ones who are now changed their mind again, Phil? Can you run that bias? MATTINGLY: So those who have put out statements and said that they're
going to change their mind include Senator Steve Daines of Montana, Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee. I believe Bill Hagerty was planning as well. I didn't quite catch whether or not also of Tennessee. I didn't quite catch where he was on this.
Kelly Loeffler said she was going to object to Georgia. She made a floor speech saying she was not anymore. Look, I think and you've seen a couple members of the House on the Republican side of things change their mind as well. It's not universal. There are still those who are hanging onto the positions they had several days ago, but, you know, look, I know you're going to talk about it the entirety of the show.
People were very, very unsettled by what happened. To be escorted out of the chambers when people were banging on the chamber's doors, to be taken to undisclosed locations where they were surrounded by law enforcement officials in full tactical gear and long guns, having no idea what was going on.
Don, for much of that time I was texting with members because they wanted information and thought perhaps, I had some of that information.
[22:15:01]
And to talk to those members as they came back -- and keep in mind, they were escorted back to the Senate chamber by more than two dozen law enforcement officials who then stood guard outside the chamber.
You could tell something had changed. I don't know if it's long term. I'm nowhere near optimistic that this is going to change the dynamics of everything we've seen over the last couple of years, but something had changed and there are a number of members who made very clear. This was very, very ugly. We just need to move on.
I think the question is how long is that going to take and we'll get at least one more objection from Senator Josh Hawley and that's for the state of Pennsylvania.
LEMON: I think many will join in your pessimism, your lack of optimism that this is going to be long term. So, Phil, stand by. We're going to get back to you as we watch what happens on the Senate floor, also on the floor of Congress as well.
I want to bring in my colleague Abby Phillip. Abby, we just watch Lindsey Graham before all of this. Really turning on Trump at the last minute, at the last moment moments ago. I would have said you know, better late than never, but how do you see this?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think so many of these people who are back pedaling now have done so much to enable this moment that we are finding ourselves in as a country. It is not just that the president today incited violence from his supporters on Capitol Hill. It is also that the president has for years been steeping his supporters in nonstop lies and has been lying about voting and lying about the election since this summer through the election itself and up until today.
So, yes, there's a responsibility for Republicans like Lindsey Graham to do the right thing, but that responsibility, you know, really was upon them for months, years, in fact. And so, you know, even the White House staffers who you see resigning at this 11th hour, good for them. But this is the last possible second and it should not take a violent insurrection on Capitol Hill to get people to decide this has gone too far.
LEMON: This is, this is in no way, this is no way absolves him of the sin and the sins that they and the president have committed against this country for the past four years, by allowing him unfettered to do whatever he wants, to subvert the Constitution and the democracy and the republic.
Phil, let me bring you back in. Senator Josh Hawley, of all people, Hawley, I should say, of all people had the nerve to condemn the violence that we saw today, yet he is still defending, challenging the results here. We all saw the photograph of him egging people on as he was at the capitol today. He is part of the reason that this happened today because he misled people about this election and about this election being stolen.
MATTINGLY: Yes. Look, I think one of the biggest reasons you're seeing a change of heart in a number of Republicans, obviously, it's a very visceral experience, but I think there's also a recognition of what they put out as their rationale simply doesn't fly after a day like today. And to be frank, it shouldn't have flown from the beginning.
And that was we're hearing from our constituents, our constituents don't believe in these electoral results and, therefore, we want to use this as a form to just raise the issue. Right? We don't want to overturn the election. That's not what this is about, we just want to raise the issue.
Democrats did this in 2005. Democrats did this back in 2017. It's no different.
Here's why it's different. The President of the United States is calling for them to overturn the election. The President of the United States is pointing to the U.S. Congress and pointing to these objections as being the way to overturn the election.
And I think this moment or this day crystalized for a number of the members that, OK, this was a pretty specious argument to begin with, and the words and what we are saying has real repercussions. People believe this and people are acting on this.
The difference, I think, between Senator Hawley and some of his colleagues who have changed his mind is look, he was the first out of the gate. He made very clear, he got in front of everybody and this was going to be his issue. He had been in communication with the White House, he had spoken directly to the president.
He had made clear that he had a strategy and he had mapped out a plan to lay out his objections to the state of Pennsylvania. And while he's not going to speak during those -- that objection later on, he laid them out during the state of Arizona and he simply is not going to back off. He was already out there. He's going to stay there.
LEMON (on camera): Speaking of Pennsylvania, Senator Pat Toomey now speaking on the floor of the Senate. Again, this is all procedural. We'll dip into it when it needs to be. Abby, I want to bring you back in. Because I want our viewers and I want you to watch this moment from Senator Mitt Romney that came right after Josh Hawley spoke. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMENY: For any who remain insistent on an audit in order to satisfy the many people who believe that the election was stolen, I'd offer this perspective. No Congressional audit is ever going to convince these voters, particularly when the president will continue to say that the election was stolen.
[22:20:06]
The best way we can show respect for the voters who are upset is by telling them the truth.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): That is indeed how you conduct yourself and how you talk to adults. He is absolutely right. Tell the truth and stop grifting off these people and misleading them.
PHILLIP: Yes. I have nothing to add to what Mitt Romney just said. He's 100 percent correct about what the right thing to do is, what leadership really looks like. And people, you know, Mitt Romney has been very clear about this from the very beginning, and he has been unwavering in his clarity about just the fact that this is all complete foolishness.
And you know, what the president has demonstrated today, particularly with his video and that statement glorifying essentially the violence that happened on Capitol Hill is that this is not about the country, this is not about his supporters. This is about him. It's about how he feels about this election, about how he doesn't want to be perceived as a loser in this election, and that's not good enough.
These members of Congress swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States and if you hear Mike Pence under God. That's what Mike Pence he said in his statement today, and those oaths supersede the president's feelings and they require the truth. And every one of these senators knows that these objections, these insinuations about the elections have no basis in fact. They have and rejected by the courts count after count more than 60 times. They've all been rejected and there is no way to --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: By Republican judges and Republican --
PHILLIP: By Republican judges.
LEMON: Yes.
PHILLIP: And there's no method for Congress to adjudicate these concerns anyway.
LEMON: It's a pipedream.
PHILLIP: So, they know that but they're doing it anyway.
LEMON: Abby, let me say this to you and I want to get your response. Because earlier before we saw this insurrection acts of violence on the capitol today, I was watching the President of the United States give his speech. And it was one grievance after another. It appeared -- it just solidified the moment. The president is the past. Right?
The current president is the past. Airing grievances, giving war stories about how he won and what he thinks should win. Unfortunately, after he did that, he incited the violence. But, and then Joe Biden is announcing his attorney general, everyone is moving on to certify the election.
He is the past and he cannot stand it. But yet he still has 12 days, 11 days left in office and can do a lot of harm. And for everyone who is out there watching, this is something that you should take into account. This man still has the nuclear codes.
This man, who has been acting erratically, still has the nuclear codes and still has control of our government and the destiny of this country for the next 11 days. And who knows what harm he can bring. Let's hope it doesn't happen. We hope today didn't happen, but yet it did, Abby.
PHILLIP: And clearly, many people in Washington, especially Republicans, according to our colleagues who have been reporting on this, are starting to realize that, you know, two weeks is too long for President Trump to be this checked out from the office.
One of the most remarkable things that happened today was learning through the Department of Defense that the president didn't weigh in on this idea of sending the National Guard to the capitol to defend that building. They didn't even speak to him. They spoke to Mike Pence, who is the Vice President of the United States.
As far as I know, I'm not aware that Mike Pence actually has the unilateral authority to do that. But it's because of its absence in this moment that he was put into that position. Now, so many people around him are starting to think, can he continue to govern, especially when he is so openly inciting violence in the streets of Washington and against the government itself?
LEMON: Abby and Phil, I want you to stand by. We have a lot to get to as we continue on with this broadcast, and later broadcast here on CNN. We're on the air live, of course, until this is resolved, until we --
until they vote on the president-elect of the United States, on his Electoral College win.
I want to bring in now CNN's White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, good evening to you. What a day, what a day as we watched all of this going on and what's happening right now. The president to my last statement, increasingly isolated, Republicans turning against him. We are seeing resignations tonight. What's going on?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN White House CORRESPONDENT: And we might see more resignations coming because we are now hearing that top officials are considering resigning not just lower-level communications officials that we've heard over the last several hours.
[22:25:02]
We are hearing real people that are working with the president every day are now considering resigning over the response that he had to that pro-Trump mob breaching Capitol Hill. And Don, that includes the national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, the deputy national security adviser, Matt Pottinger who we are told his resignation could come as soon as within a few hours from now, and the deputy chief of staff, Chris Liddell.
But they are certainly far from the only ones that we are hearing internally. There's actually a lot of conversation going on about whether or not people are going to resign because there's going to be some criticism over that if they do. You know, an 11th hour resignation, what does that mean when the president only has two weeks left in office.
But people are very shaken by the president's response to what happened today because he did not come outright and condemn hit. Actually, they had to convince him to send in the National Guard. He was very resistant to that at the beginning.
And I'm told by one person that he was borderline enthusiastic over watching people wearing his sweatshirts, waving his flags going up to the Capitol Hill and derailing the certification process, which is what the president wanted his Republican, the allies to do people like Lindsey Graham who, of course, we saw how that has turned tonight completely on the president.
And so, he was fine with what was happening earlier today on Capitol Hill according to multiple people who has spoken with the president today who have described him as manic and other things, just talking about this reaction that they just do not believe is normal. It's left a lot of people unsettled tonight, Don.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I mean, that was one of the words I used to describe that phone call that happened this weekend with the Georgia secretary of state, that he sounded manic and desperate. Kaitlan, listen, the president incited today's violence, and now you're learning that he initially did not want to deploy the National Guard. There are folks, as you were saying did not want to deploy the
National Guard. But also, people talking about the 25th amendment. It seems like -- and the resignations that you just mentioned. It seems like it's late in the game for that.
But what are the guardrails right now for a person who is acting erratically who does not want to stand by the Constitution, who doesn't want to stand up for our democracy and for the republic? What are the -- is there any recourse with the folks in Washington that can get a handle on this president's behavior?
COLLINS: So, it is late in the game. I would agree with that. But here's the thing that we're hearing from people over this last-minute concern, this 11th-hour concern. Look what happened today. It went to a level that people were not expecting it to go to. Though, of course, the president has been laying the groundwork for this for months.
Because you're right. What you saw happened today was fueled by the president's lies about the election and about the fact that he did lose the election, though he won't admit it. But I think what's changed is people realize the power that the president had today by having that pro-Trump mob burst past barricades, you know, cussing out police officers, attacking police officers, injuring them.
And I think their concern is what the president could do with 14 days, or 13 days, how many days that he has left in office. Because of course, he is a desperate, he is incredibly upset that he's loss this election. He's lashing out at his vice president for not doing something that he doesn't have the authority to do.
And so, I think people are realizing that, and so they're concerned about what he could do once we move past today, once we know the outcome of what's happening on Capitol Hill. So, I think they're concerned and that's why people are talking about things like the 25th amendment, like mass resignations, censuring the president possibly if something else that's come up.
And so, those are very real things. They are on the table. This is not just never-Trumpers floating this. This is a real thing that is actually happening inside the president's inner circle and conversations that are actually going on.
LEMON: All right. Kaitlan, I want you to stand by right now. I just need to point out what's going on, on the House floor. What you're looking at live now is the House. They're voting on the Arizona objection as a growing number of Republican leaders and cabinet officials are telling CNN that they believe Donald Trump should be removed from office and it should happen before January 20th in the wake of today's attack on the capitol by pro -- the pro-Trump mob. These are not protesters. These were domestic terrorists.
So, joining me now is the former CIA director, John Brennan, the author of the new book "Undaunted: My Fight Against America's Enemies at Home and Abroad."
Director, I'm honored to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us. I really need your reaction to what you were seeing tonight in Congress and what you saw today.
JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER DIRECTOR, CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: Well, I think it's a day of shame for the United States as a whole in terms of what has happened. I think there are a lot of questions about why there was such a decisive security failure. People in Washington, D.C., the authorities knew for weeks that this was going to be a massive demonstration on behalf of Donald Trump.
[22:29:58]
And the fact that they were so unprepared today, I know the capitol police did their very best to try to protect the members of Congress, but I am just appalled at the lack of preparation and the contingency planning to prevent the desecration, the sacking of the capitol.
We have a deeply disturbed individual in the White House. He has been that way for quite some time. But I really do believe that now he is increasingly desperate and now deranged in terms of trying to do everything possible to stay in power. And it's a very, very dangerous time, and so the time has come long before this to take action to prevent Donald Trump from continuing to abuse the authorities of the office of the presidency.
We see what damage was done today. He can do a lot more damage in the next two weeks.
LEMON: Yes.
BRENNAN: It's up to, I think Vice President Pence and the cabinet to take decisive actions to prevent Donald Trump from continuing to just trample upon not just our Democratic institutions but our civil order.
LEMON: Listen, I'm glad you said that, because I mentioned that to our Kaitlan Collins and to Phil and Abby as well before you came on. Listen, I don't mean to be hyperbolic. This is simply the truth. This is a person who still has the nuclear codes. That puts it into perspective for Americans. I don't want to alarm anyone, but that's the truth of the matter.
And a well-placed Republican source is telling CNN's Jim Acosta that it is unclear if there will be enough cabinet members to remove Trump, but it's a huge deal that these conversations are even happening and that they are talking about his mental state and that he has lost it and he's unstable. Should he be, do you think he should be removed from office?
BRENNAN: Absolutely, without question. In fact, I think I was on the Chris Cuomo show in early November and I called the 25th amendment then because I knew that he was the going to be increasingly desperate and do whatever he could in order to stay in office.
And again, the Office of the Presidency has tremendous, immense powers, and he is trying to leverage even with just the bully pulpit that he has, he got these people to go to Congress and to do what they did. I think we're going to see increasing number of resignations. I think you're going to see active insubordination as well. You're going to see a breakdown of the command and control authority within the White House and broader within the executive branch.
So, this is a crisis, I think, of unprecedented proportion. Certainly not in my lifetime and it is up to Vice President Pence and members of the cabinet. They can, in fact, move very swiftly to invoke the 25th amendment. Congress then will have to, you know, react to it.
But I do think in light of what we've seen today and the increasingly desperation of Donald Trump, I don't think that they have a choice quite frankly. But this is where we're going to find out whether or not they have the courage to do what is right on behalf of our country.
LEMON: As a matter of fact, you're right. I mean you said it on my colleague, Chris Cuomo's show. But also, you write about this thing in your book. Again, the book is called "Undaunted: My Fight Against America's Enemies at Home and Abroad."
And I do have to -- I want to read this to you. It's from President Trump's first secretary of defense, James Mattis. And he said, today's violent assault on our capitol in an effort to subjugate American democracy by mob rule was fomented by Mr. Trump.
His use of the presidency to destroy trust in our election and to poison our respect for fellow citizens has been enabled by pseudo political leaders whose names will live in infamy as profiles in cowardice. Our Constitution and our republic will over this stain and we, the people will come together again - again in our never-ending effort to form a more perfect union, while Mr. Trump will deservedly be left a man without a country, a man without a country.
It's an extraordinary rebuke of the man that he worked for. But this should not be surprising to anyone. He has exhibited this behavior since he has been on the political stage and even before.
BRENNAN: Absolutely. Jim Mattis, who tried his very best to make sure that while he was in office -- he tried to keep things on the straight and narrow. But those words of Jim Mattis, I think, are profound and it really just demonstrates the concern that many of us have with Donald Trump still in office.
This is something that I think warning signals have been blinking red for quite some time, but never has it been so, so intense as it has been today and bad on anybody in Congress or in the White House or in the cabinet who continues to turn a blind eye to Donald Trump over the next two weeks.
LEMON: Thank you, director. And I urge everyone to read your book. And thank you for being a profile in courage instead of a profile in cowardice. We appreciate you. Thanks so much.
BRENNAN: Thanks, Don.
LEMON (on camera): Thank you. So, as we watch this vote that's going on right now in the House and we continue to pay attention to the Congress, meaning the House and the Senate, a few things that I want to say about what we saw today. [22:34:55]
President Trump, your legacy awaits you. It really does. Leader not of the greatest nation on earth, but of a mob insurrection to destroy the capitol and our democracy as you sat and you watched it on TV. And according to reports, you seemed to take pleasure in it.
You will go down in history as the worst of the worst. And someday in the future that will be all anyone remembers of you, that you were awful, terrible, the worst president, and that you won by an electoral fluke and by lying to people. Your complete and utter disgrace is what people will remember, and you are a complete and utter disgrace.
As far as today goes, we have breaking news. And you know what that is. The nation's capital is under curfew tonight. lawmakers reconvene to count Electoral College votes on one of the darkest days in American history. Domestic terrorists, that's what -- that's you are, domestic terrorists who are goaded by the president into an attack on our very own capitol.
I want you to let that sink in. If you're still at shocked as you should be, as we all are. I'm not surprised. We saw this coming. We've been -- actually we had been warning you about it for years now, a little late. Glad you're finally there and you see it. This may be the thing that breaks the fever, this attempted coup.
And so, this is how it ends. This is -- it started with American carnage, but this is the real American carnage, you are. We love you very -- you're very special, the president tells the rioters, insurrectionists, domestic terrorists today. What's that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Go home, we love you, you're very special.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, it's not like we weren't warned. Encouraging violence at his campaign rallies, calling on the second amendment people in a veiled threat against Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Saying this about deadly white supremacist violence in Charlottesville.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Gassing peaceful protesters so he could have a photo op front of a church. Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You want to call them -- what do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name.
UNKNOWN: White supremacists and white --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead. Who would you like me to condemn?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Proud Boys.
TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transfer of power after the election?
TRUMP: Well, we're going to have to see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Inciting this very mob this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to walk down to the capitol.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. We're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, then you have to be strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): There you go. That's what did it, inciting them along with his son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: If you're going to be the zero and not the hero, we're coming for you. I suggest you choose wisely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Along with his so-called lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: If we're wrong, we will be made fools of.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
GIULIANI: But if we're right, a lot of them will go to jail.
(APPLAUSE)
GIULIANI: So, let's have trial by combat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Everyone knew, everyone watching knew that this could happen. Everyone knew it was time for choosing, and everyone will remember who chose not to opposite, but to stand by this attempt to mount a coup, who chose to be an active part of it, who promoted yourselves on TV, raised money.
I'll remember you especially as long as I sit in this seat, I'm going to remember you and even after.
[22:39:53]
We will all remember you because when the coup you enabled and you supported is finally mounted and you are barricaded inside cowering in fear because it finally affects you, when officers are injured, when a woman is shot to death, when bombs are planted and disabled in the capitol and other D.C. buildings, when the confederate flag is carried up the steps of the United States Capitol and into the hall, not in 1865, but in 2021.
When a scaffold with a noose is erected beside the steps of the capitol, you do not get to pretend that you didn't support this, or say that this wasn't the side that you were on, that you didn't know what could happen, that you didn't align yourself with the man who told you all along exactly what he was about and exactly what he was about to do.
You tried to play games with the intentions of a madman, and thanks to you, we have all lost. Shame, shame, shame on you forever. And there are other words, but I cannot say them on television.
Phil Mattingly back on Capitol Hill for us. Where are we in this process, Phil?
MATTINGLY: We're watching the House vote right now. Obviously, the Senate very handily rejected the Arizona objection, 93 to 6. Again, only six people objecting when we knew earlier in the week that there were supposedly 14 who were supposed to. Again, this is a recognition of what happened today, people changing their minds, people changing their tone and tenor.
And frankly, Don, people recognizing that this wasn't just about raising an issue. This was lining up with a president who is calling for the overturning of a democratically elected president that helped spark what we saw today in the capitol.
What you're catching on the screen right now is the House vote tally. This is going to go down, again, if you're a supporter of the objections, this will go down catastrophically as well for you. Arizona will fail. It will fail pretty handily. If you look at the screen right now, you see all Democrats are voting to kill the objection. You see about 50 Republicans are voting to kill the objection.
We knew more House Republicans would vote for these objections. And Senate Republicans, just kind of the way the chamber operates over there, but it will go down very handily.
What's going to be interesting to see after this, Don, if you paid attention, you know, you pointed out kind of the parliamentary stuff that was going on over in the United States Senate. They're trying to speed this up.
They're trying to speed this up. And the reason why they're trying to speed this up is because members on both sides of the aisle, including those who are planning to object, including those who did object recognized this needs to end and it needs to end quickly.
As one senator told me earlier, this is ugly, we need to put it past us, we need to get this done. How fast it will go is still an open question. We know Senator Josh Hawley still plans to object the state of Pennsylvania. He will have a House member that will join him with that. That will start a new debate and a new vote.
However, clearly, leaders want to get this done. They want to get this done tonight. And I can't underscore enough leaders from both sides in both parties have made very clear that getting this done tonight is more important than anything else in the wake of what happened today to underscore the U.S. government is still working, the U.S. Congress is still operating, and Joe Biden will still be inaugurated come January 20th.
LEMON: Phil, I have t point out to our viewers, there's 79 so far on that screen. That is the number of Republicans if you look into Republican column, the number of Republican -- Republicans who are objecting to the Arizona electorate -- to the Arizona Electoral College votes. Eighty now on the screen.
MATTINGLY: Yes. Look, we heard somewhere between, you know, Jake Tapper reported very earlier in the week that we're thinking somewhere in the 140 range. I heard pretty consistently somewhere between 120 and 160. I've already heard of a couple House members who changed their minds, said they were going to object and now in the wake of what happened today are not going to object. But the numbers are going to be high. And it's actually worth
explaining, the Senate and the House are two very different institutions, obviously. But in the Republican Party they are two very institution -- two different institutions as well. It may not seem like it based on just the general across-the-board fealty to Donald Trump over the course of the last four years for the Republican Party on the whole, but House Republicans are significantly, significantly more loyal to President Trump.
They are also significantly, significantly more willing to believe a lot of the things that President Trump believes. You had a member on the floor earlier today even after everything that transpired today saying that it was very clear that President Trump won and he won by hundreds of thousands of votes.
So, the House and the Senate are two very different institutions. You will see many more House Republicans vote for the objections than you will in the Senate. I think the bottom line here, and I just cannot stress this enough, it's noise.
LEMON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: It's noise. It does not matter how many of them -- it might matter in terms of how history looks at them, it might matter in terms of how this institution operates going forward. It might matter for precedent. It does not matter in terms of who the next president is going to be.
And, frankly, the vast majority of lawmakers I'm talking to right now just want this to end, want this day to end, want this process to end, and I will tell you, there are a number of Republicans who knowledge they just want this presidency to end at this point.
[22:5:02]
LEMON: Phil, you're right. I mean, it doesn't matter, but it does matter because it has the potential and it did to incite the craziness --
MATTINGLY: Yes.
LEMON: -- that happened today because those people believe it. They believe lies. And so, therefore, they have fallen victim to it. But you cannot let them off the hook just that easily because they are adults.
Phil, we're going to get back to you. I got to get to someone now. I want to get newly elected Republican congresswoman who was inside the capitol building while rioters attacked today. She is Congresswoman Nancy Mace and she joins me now.
Congresswoman, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Just give me your reaction as you watch the tally tonight, as you watch what happened today. How are you doing?
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Yes, this is -- LEMON: What did you -- what's going on?
MACE: Don, this has been the best and worst week of my life as an elected official this weekend. I'm a single working mom. I flew my two kids to Washington to watch me to be sworn in. I'm the first Republican woman elected to Congress from the state of South Carolina. And I flew them home on the very first flight out of town on Monday morning because of the rhetoric I was hearing coming out of friends, members of my own party and seeing what might come.
And I did not want my children here in D.C. this week. They do virtual school because COVID-19 keeps them from going to school, and I thought, hey, first week of the year doing virtual school, my congressional office, how cool would that be? And they wanted to do it, and they were excited.
But I sent them home because my motherly instincts said this doesn't feel right. This doesn't -- something is going to happen because of the rhetoric. And my worst fears came true today. This is a sad day for our nation. I'm heartbroken, I'm disgusted, and I'm angry. And enough is enough. This needs to stop, it needs to stop right now, tonight we need to end it.
LEMON: How did you vote today?
MACE: As soon as we get off this interview, I am putting my sneakers in and I'm running down to the floor of the House, I'm going to vote to certify the presidential election, just like I said last week that I was going to do.
On Sunday I swore an oath to the Constitution to uphold that Constitution and I take that oath seriously. The political grand standing that we've seen over the last few weeks we've seen politicians fleecing Americans who are vulnerable to believing the dishonesty here tonight.
We have millions of Americans who believe that this vote for the Electoral College that we could, that Congress could overturn the election with this vote. We have millions of Americans who believe that the vice president could single handedly overturn the election today. Thank God he put that rumor to bed this morning.
Those things are just not true. That is not the role of Congress tonight when you have an election that is certified by 50 states throughout the nation. We don't have that power or authority in our Constitution. And I don't like the outcome of the election in November. I was a supporter of the president, and I'm frustrated with that as well. And I do big things in certain states, it should be investigated, but this is wrong and it needs to end.
LEMON: All right. Well, Congresswoman, here's what I have to tell you. Put on your sneakers. I'm going to let you go, all right? So go vote.
MACE: OK. Thank you, sir.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you and congratulations on your win, and thank you for coming on. Best of luck to you. Be safe.
MACE: Yes, sir. Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you, thank you very much.
So, I want to bring in now Ambassador John Bolton, former Trump national security adviser. Ambassador, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. What -- listen, I don't know how you feel about this --
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR OF THE UNITED STATES: Good to be with you.
LEMON: -- but what an embarrassing display today for the president and for the country. I mean, what did you think of it?
BOLTON: Well, it's one of the saddest days I can think of in our history to see this kind of performance by a President of the United States. And his conduct with respect to the election, before the election, forecasting fraud before it even happened, what he's done in the two months since then, what he did in inciting this mob this morning, what he did in inciting what my good friend and lawyer, Chuck Cooper, earlier today called an effort of a congressional coup is really a low point, I think, in American history.
Now, the good news is that by sometime probably late tonight, early tomorrow morning, I think Congress will certify the electoral vote. We are on a steady path. There are things that have to be looked at, like this catastrophic failure of security around the capitol today.
But Donald Trump is going to leave in 14 days, and I think it's very important that everybody recognize that despite one of the worst challenges to our constitutional system since the Civil War, we have sustained our constitutional system.
LEMON: Let's talk more about that. As you said, inciting violence and this president's temperament and it really is his mental state. Because a growing number of Republican leaders tonight are angry at the president. They're actually floating the idea of removing Trump from power. Do you think, Ambassador, the 25th amendment could be invoked or could he even be impeached at this point?
[22:49:58]
BOLTON: Well, I think the first thing to think about is the adage do no harm. We've got 14 days left, and to be clear, the 25th amendment, certainly the section 4 of the 25th amendment is not self-executing. Even if the vice president and the majority of the principle officers of the government were to say the president could no longer carry out his duties, the president can contradict that. And then they have to go through the vice president and principal officers again. And if there's still no agreement, then Congress has to decide.
Well, I think what we're seeing in the Congress right now is they are the last people who ought to be deciding this. So, it's not entirely clear to me that we are better off triggering the 25th amendment in this context for the first time in its history. I think we've got to be very careful how we do this --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: If not in a situation like this though, Ambassador, when? When would it happen if it's not for something like this when you see armed insurrection? So, you see insurrectionists storming the capitol.
BOLTON: Well, tell me what you think --
LEMON: I don't know. I'm asking you. That's why --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLTON: Well, listen. Well, listen. I'm trying to answer. What Trump did today was inexcusable. There's no question about it. It was an assault on our constitutional process. But the mob was not likely to overthrow the government. What's likely to damage the government, what has damaged the constitutional system, although not beyond repair, are these objections to the certification of the electors. And that's been going on.
Look, everybody thinks they're shrink these days and that they can assess Trump's mental state. Good luck with that. I don't think it's his mental state that's changed. What's changed is he's only got 14 days left. I acknowledge this is dangerous. But I'll say again, we ought to bear in mind the adage, do no harm, because you can make this worse if we're not careful.
LEMON: How are our allies and folks overseas looking at us right now, ambassador?
BOLTON: Well, they're shaking their heads in dismay, as I think 90 percent of Americans -- at least I hope that number is right. This is causing damage to us in the world. But I want to say this. I don't think that's a relevant fact. We have to judge ourselves. And the performance of this president is embarrassing to us, quite apart from what the rest of the world thinks.
We've got to fix this problem for our country and I will say for the Republican Party. We need to go on a campaign of explaining to people who voted for Trump who think the election was stolen that it was not. This misimpression created almost entirely by Donald Trump has to be fixed as soon as possible.
LEMON: Listen, I don't disagree with you. We do hold ourselves up as the greatest democracy on earth and the best country. I'm just -- you know, I'm just wondering how folks are looking at us right now because it doesn't appear to be at this point -- hopefully, and I think it will, our democracy and our republic will hold together. We shall see in the coming days, 14 more. Thank you, Ambassador. I appreciate you joining.
BOLTON: Thanks for having me. LEMON: Absolutely.
I want to bring in now former Republican Senator Jeff Flake. He's now a CNN political commentator. Senator, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. What a day. Some of your Republican Senate colleagues changed their mind after today but not all. What's your message to these dead enders?
JEFF FLAKE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I would hope that, you know, the phone call to the secretary of state in Georgia would have changed a few minds, and it may have. But certainly, today a number of my colleagues said that that's enough. I wish that all of them had. I wish that nobody had challenged this election.
As Mitt Romney said very eloquently on the floor, it's the responsibility of elected officials to sometimes tell the voters that they're wrong. It's courage. It takes courage to tell the truth sometimes. And the truth is Joe Biden won the election.
LEMON: Yes.
FLAKE: And some people are having a hard time with that. I understand it. But they've got to get past it.
LEMON: What's interesting, I have seen some people, you know, pat Lindsey Graham on the back. One speech, I don't believe, absolves Lindsay Graham for the years of sins that he committed against this country and by allowing this president to run rampant and go unfettered, whatever he wanted to do.
You served in Congress. This attack on your democracy came from within. Blood was spilled. What did you think as you saw this ransacking happening on Capitol Hill?
FLAKE: It was the most awful feeling I've had in a long time. I was on Capitol Hill during the 9/11. I was on the baseball field being shot at. I can tell you neither of those experiences would have been like this.
[22:55:04]
To see our own citizens coming to the capitol and ransacking that sacred building, it was beyond awful. So, I was so glad that the House and the Senate decided to move forward today to get right back in and to finish this. Today was awful, but tomorrow will be better. On January 20th, we'll inaugurate a new president and better days will be ahead.
LEMON: Senator, President Trump instigated and he defended these thugs, these domestic terrorists. Does he represent a threat to the nation? And what do you think Congress should do?
FLAKE: Well, Congress is doing exactly what they should be doing right now, certifying the results and then waiting for January 20th. I hope that Congress will pick up, take up some of the nominees that the president-elect has put forward and hold those hearings so that he can hit the ground running on January 20th. The Congress ought to move about its business and get ready for January 20th.
LEMON: Former senator, Republican Senator, Jeff Flake, we appreciate you joining, also now a CNN contributor, so we'll be seeing much more of you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you.
FLAKE: I look forward to it.
LEMON (on camera): So, joining me now, CNN senior political analyst John Avlon and CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. So good to have you both on. and get both of your perspectives. John, I want to start with you, the president-elect urging the country to come together early today. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Let me be very clear, the scenes of chaos at the capitol do not reflect a true America, do not represent who we are. This is the United States of America. There's never ever, ever, ever been a thing we've tried to do that we've done it together and not been able to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Here's the question. How do we come together and move forward after something like this with people who are willing to stage a coup because their guy lost on bad information, fraudulent information, by the way, John. How does that happen?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST & ANCHOR: Presidential leadership matters. Republicans reckoning with what they've wrought by following and empowering Donald Trump matters. Because this was the moment where they realized they couldn't encourage this kind of forces. You can't channel hate in a constructive direction. And it bit them in the capitol where they work and live today.
And so, I think we need to recognize as some are, that Donald Trump has been dividing us, that those forces cannot be controlled and that history will judge him as a villain. And those who have supported him will be judged the same way. They backed -- they have supported the person who history, I believe, will regard as the worst president in our history. And the evidence of that was evident today.
LEMON: I think you're right about that. Douglas, Biden also calling on Trump to step up, but instead Trump defended these thugs. Will today's disastrous events be the lasting legacy of this president? There's so much to add to this, but this was just beyond the pale.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Utterly beyond the pale. We have two weeks to go. We have a deranged person in the White House right now ranting and raving. He allowed Russia to do a cyberattack on the United States and did nothing. He has the tape in the recent days in Georgia with the secretary of state. And his mocking and laughing and encouraging and goading a mob to take over the capitol, it's a low ebb.
Yes, we have to talk about the 25th amendment and impeachment right now. And as you said, if not, when? It's a long two weeks. If Pence doesn't have the fortitude to move that along with cabinet officers to 25th, then you have to try to impeach and remove the president because he is not just unfit for command. We are really in a dangerous situation right now, Don.
LEMON: John, what about resignations. He's talking about impeachment. We've heard about resignations. It seems late for that, you know, but.
AVLON: It is late, but it's one way of establishing a line. Look, people were talking about impeachment. People are talking about the 25th. Smart people who I really respect and many -- some conservatives, I'm not sure there's time for that. I think the president rushing through certainly an impeachment and the practicalities of the 25th are challenging.
But there needs to be accountability. There needs to be accountability for the president, for the people in Congress who are still supporting this complete fraud tonight, for questions of how these folks were able to storm the capitol and then accountability for the people who did storm the capitol. Because they were basically just corralled out without any other kind of accountability that we would normally expect for people who violently assaulted by Biden calls the center of our democracy. There's a lot of accountability that needs to happen.
LEMON: John, Douglas, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us. We'll see you a bit later on here on CNN.
What a day it has been. And it is not over yet as we watch the House floor there. They are voting on certifying this election and the objections against certain states and we're going to continue to watch it.
[23:00:08]
So, thank you for watching this particular hour with me. I'll be back a little bit later on with my colleague, Christopher Cuomo. In the meantime, our breaking news coverage continues on with Anderson Cooper and "AC360."
