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Don Lemon Tonight

President Biden Signs Orders on Stimulus Checks, Food Stamps; Biden Acts to Ease Deepening Economic Crisis; 60 Percent of Americans Don't Know Where or When To Get A COVID-19 Vaccine; Dr. Fauci Saying Expect News on Johnson and Johnson Vaccine Within Two Weeks; Some Counties Requiring Medical Grade Masks to Try to Slow Virus Spread; Biden White House Staff Require to Wear Masks; Health Experts Advocate for More N95 Masks in Public; Donald Trump's Senate Impeachment Trial Will Start on February 9th; Hank Aaron, Home Run King Who Defied Racism, Dies at 86; Feds Charge More Than 125 People in Deadly Capitol Attack. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: End of the first few days of the new Biden administration the president signing executive orders expanding food stamps and speeding up the delivery of stimulus checks to Americans financially devastated by the COVID pandemic.

Also breaking news tonight, The New York Times reporting that the previous president plotted with a Justice Department lawyer to oust the former acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen in an attempt to advance Trump's false claims that he won the election.

And the Senate announcing the start of arguments in Donald Trump's impeachment trial will begin on February 9th. The House will deliver the single article of impeachment to the Senate on Monday evening. And Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer saying the two-week delay gives Senators time to confirm President Biden's cabinet.

Lots to discuss. CNN White House correspondent John Harwood is here, if I can get my mouth to work. Senior legal analyst, Laura Coates and political commentator, Amanda Carpenter. Good evening. I'm sure you all have been there before. You're like, what am I saying?

Good to have all of you. John, I want to start with you because I want to start with this breaking news from The New York Times. It looks like another campaign of pressure and threats to steal this election from President Biden. It's also showing just where Trump's mind was as he tried desperately to hold onto power.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Don, look, President Trump was psychologically disturbed after the election and acted that way.

I have to say as stunning as this report is and the extent -- the lengths to which that discussion of ousting Jeffrey Rosen got culminating in this meeting that the Times quote, officials are saying is like, a scene out of the apprentice with two competing legal officials, one rooted in the law the other rooted in fantasy were making claims to the president.

It doesn't tell us all that much that we didn't know when we listen to that hour-long phone call between President Trump and Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia's Secretary of State.

He was overtly pressuring the Secretary of State to change votes, to find votes to overturn the results of the election. This is who President Trump was. This is who he is. It is why he ended up inciting that insurrection that has got him impeached. And he's soon going to be tried in the Senate.

LEMON: Laura, do you think Rosen or some of these officials will be called to testify?

LAURA COATES, CNN INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ANALYST: They should because they would provide some greater context to the intent of the president of the United States, which is going to be very, very key in trying to build an offensive attack against what will be a defense of free speech and first amendment. The idea he's not trying to insight a riot.

The only way they can prove he was is if they have contextual clues before, during and after. This would be part of the before period of time to figure out what he was intending for the audience and the recipients of his message to believe, what he was hoping for them to convey and relay in their actual conduct.

So, it is part of it and part of a longer discussion about the president's thoughts regarding the Department of Justice as a collection of yes men as opposed to those who are supposed to be objective and blind towards the law, and only regarding -- I mean to the opinions and only regarding the facts are they able to really dig their heels in and compel a particular result.

LEMON: It's interesting, Laura, because this is -- it is a political process, right? And they're voting to convict or not. But in a court of law, would it be much more cut and dry with the evidence? Would people look at this evidence do you think or a jury or whatever and say, yes, of course? And it wouldn't be partisan. It would just be an American society.

COATES: Well, you know, there's a much straighter line than normal when you're talking about just the facts, the actual speech and then the conduct that results from it. I mean, imagine if this was the Supreme Court who is looking at this, analyzing under their own rubrics about how you evaluate first amendment speech and speech that insights a riot.

[23:05:04]

And although Chief Justice Roberts will be presiding over it, his hands are tied to be able to opine and offer his insight about what his own court has already said about this issue, which just does draw the straight lines you speak about between the president's comments and the incitement of riots.

LEMON: Yes, listen Amanda, I know for you it's clear-cut. Your reaction to this reporting was convict and disqualify. But Senate Republicans say there's basically no chance that there will be enough votes to convict. So Biden is hobbled by Trump -- excuse me, so, is he going to be hobbled by Trump again to try to get his, you know, agenda through because they're going on with something that may not even happen, it may not convict him and then therefore the legacy of Trump is over him?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and I'm shocked Donald Trump has been this quiet for this long. But here's what I'm really worried about when it comes to the Senate trial.

I think the Democrats are getting really hung up on the speech issue because you're asking essentially Republican Senators to vote against themselves. Because if you just talk about the stop the steal rallies and the speech, right, they all did that.

Mitch McConnell funded Senate candidates in Georgia who were in on the stop the steal rally. And so where I think the focus should be shifted is in how President Trump incited and abetted the riots in his unique capacity as president. Because when the riots were happening, when people were storming the Capitol, people asked him for help. He as president of the United States was in a unique position to stop the violence and send help.

And he refused. He refused to do that. And only Donald Trump could have taken that action. And so I think that makes him unique in inciting and abetting the riots in the way that, like, a Senator hasn't. And I'm just -- I'm saying this because I want to get more Senate Republican votes. And so, I really wish the Democrats would focus on the presence in action during those hours that the Capitol was being stormed rather than the speech angle because I think you're going to lose votes left and right.

LEMON: John, let's talk about what the president did today, the current president. Spoke at length about a number of programs that he wants to pass as part of his economic relief package. And he said they have a lot of bipartisan and corporate support for them. He's going to keep his head down, he's going to try to move forward, but does he have the partners that he needs in this mission?

HARWOOD: Well, if the partners are Senate Republicans that's a huge question mark. It's not beyond the pale. It's not impossible that he will get some cooperation. This after all is an immense public health and economic crisis that he's facing. As you mentioned President Trump's former chief White House economist, Kevin Hassett has endorsed this package. The chamber of commerce has spoken favorably about this package.

Economists across the spectrum understand that the economy needs support. And the vaccine rollout needs support. Getting on top of the pandemic is the key to restoring the economy. Joe Biden also has the back stop, the leverage in his back pocket of being able to go through this procedure called reconciliation that would let him with a bare Democratic majority pass some semblance of his program. Not everything in his program.

But Joe Biden wants to try to bring the country together, wants to try to do things on a bipartisan basis, which is the way you get enduring achievements in American politics. And so I think he's going to let this process play out for a while. He would need to surpass the filibuster threshold, 10 Republicans. That's a high hurdle just as it's a high hurdle to get 17 Republicans to vote to convict President Trump.

But I think for a matter of weeks probably not months he's going to play that out. He's got a phone call with his top economic advisor, Brian Deese with a group of 16 bipartisan Senators this weekend to try to see what they can do. If there's a bipartisan deal it's not going to be the whole $1.9 trillion, but he might be able to get something significant. And he's going to try it.

LEMON: Amanda, you know, the Republicans, Mitch McConnell, they have been obstructionist before as we know, right? So what will it be like if they are seen, you know, voting against stimulus checks, voting against economic assistance, voting against helping people with the COVID pandemic? Is that an incentive in their -- incentive enough for them to work with them?

CARPENTER: Listen, I think at the end of the day Biden is going to find enough Republicans to spend money -- to send money back home. That's usually not a problem in Washington.

[23:10:00]

What you're seeing now is a lot of positioning. I don't think Republicans know how to position themselves against President Biden because he really hasn't showed his hand on a lot of liberal stuff. I know that's happening. The House is going to pass stuff, but he's kept his cards close to the vest. With Obama it was a lot easier, right? He came in from the gates, saying we're going to pass universal health care. That was his, you know, first big pushed.

And so that was easy for Republicans to line up against. Right now, they don't really know what to do because Biden hasn't clearly laid out the agenda. So, I think it's smart for Biden just to stick to getting the economy back open, crushing coronavirus because that's just hard to be against. And people will be there to provide him the votes.

LEMON: Amanda, Laura, John, thank you so much. Have a great weekend. I'll see you soon.

President Biden's top priority is battling the pandemic but six in 10 Americans don't know when or where they're going to get the vaccine. So, what will it take to get the process up to speed?

[23:15:00]

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LEMON: The CDC reporting that 1.6 million vaccine doses were given out in 24 hours. The biggest single day increase so far. But experts say we need to go much faster to turn the crisis around. Of the almost 40 million doses that have been distributed just over 19 million shots have made it into arms. And a new study finds that six in 10 Americans don't know when or where they'll get the vaccine.

Joining me now to discuss is Dr. Jonathan Reiner, he is a Director of Cardiac Catheterization Program at George Washington University Hospital. Doctor, thank you. You know, before we talk about this, we need to get the vaccine in these many arms as possible, right?

And I have to say my mom got the vaccine today and I had no idea that it would give me such a sense of calm because now I feel like at least in some ways she'll soon be inoculated from this and she can start leaving her house. Is that a weird that's not weird to feel that way? I didn't even know I would feel that way.

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: No, it's a great feeling. That's a great feeling. I feel that way when my patients tell me, when my family tells me that they've been vaccinated. It's a great feeling. Everyone who gets the vaccine is going to survive this. That's how you think about it. I understand why you feel that way about your mom.

LEMON: 1.6 million vaccines is good news, but you say that the Biden administration's goal of 1 million vaccines per day is too low. How can the government speed up this process?

REINER: Well, first of all, we need the J & J vaccine to be approved. And hopefully when we see the data in about a week, the data will look as good as the phase one and phase two clinical data suggests it will be. And that will be a huge boost. You know, part of the problem is I'm not sure anyone really knows what the true production capacity of Moderna and Pfizer, BioNTech is right now.

We were essentially told by the former administration that we would have essentially 40 million doses in December and then 80 million doses in January and 100 million doses in February. But now it's almost the end of January and we're just seeing 40 million doses reach the states.

So, it'll be important to know what the actual production capacity is. The Biden administration has announced that they will invoke if necessary, the defense production act to provide the reagents and raw materials needed to make these vaccines.

But this is RNA. This is not like stamping out a hubcap. You just can't sort of add on you know, more shifts. This is complex and it requires not just the man and woman power but the reagents and the highly specialized equipment to do this.

So, there is a maximum number of doses that these companies can make. I don't know if they've reached it, but we don't necessarily know exactly what their production capacity is. But I think it'll be a huge boost when the J & J vaccine is approved and starts to be distributed to the states.

LEMON: Listen, I've heard many of our doctors on television and just many people saying that they are happy to see people like Dr. Fauci out giving information in front of the cameras to the American people. President Trump's coronavirus task force coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx saying in an interview that she considered quitting. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Did you ever consider quitting?

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Always. I mean why would you want to put yourself through that every day? I had to ask myself every morning, is there something that I think I can do that will be helpful in responding to this pandemic? And it's something I ask myself every night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I mean she's saying that now, and I'm sure there's some truth to that, but what is her legacy going to be?

REINER: Well, Dr. Birx has had an incredibly distinguished career, really spending her life fighting these pandemics, HIV and, you know, Ebola in Africa. But she will have a mixed legacy. She, I think was an apologist for this administration for a long time. I'm sure she felt that it was better to fight from within than to basically be thrown out and lose her influence, but I think she'll have a very mixed legacy when the history of this is written.

LEMON: Yes. There's some European countries are now mandating medical grade masks to try and slow the spread. How important is it for the American health care workers and the general public to have medical grade masks like the N-95s available to them?

[23:20:03]

REINER: Yes, I actually have one here. So, this is -- I hope you can see this, this is N-95 mask.

LEMON: I can see it.

REINER: This is the mask I wear in the hospital. You know I've worn masks like this since March. An N-95 mask is basically composed of these sort of stacked fibers which have these microscopic (inaudible) and it traps particles. But the secret of this mask is that it actually has an electrostatic charge that traps the virus. I don't understand why this hasn't been manufactured using the defense production act so that every American can have this.

When you wear this mask and it fits tightly around your face, I'm not going to say it's impossible to become infected, but it becomes much less probable. This is really what everyone should be wearing in public, except it's very hard for the public to find these. So what the public can find are KN-95 masks. If they fit properly and you can tell, if you wear glasses like me, it if fits really properly, your glasses won't fog.

And I would wear this now in public either an N-95 or KN-95 mask. If you find an N-95 mask that has a valve in it that's not really great for the rest of the people you are going to meet because you're exhaling through it. But if you find that mask you can wear a cloth mask over that. But with the more contagious variants that are circulating around the country, if you can find a KN-95 or N-95 mask, that's what you should wear.

LEMON: Dr. Reiner, thank you sir. Have a good weekend.

REINER: My pleasure, Don.

LEMON: The Biden administration requiring masks on all federal properties. This is part of the president's effort to promote mask wearing to slow down the spread of the pandemic. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the story now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From day one a change.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Mask up for 100 days.

GUPTA: Masks, a top priority for the new administration and still one of our most useful tools to fight the pandemic.

PSAKI: The steps we're all taking to make sure that we are safe, he is safe, you're all safe, those include daily testing when we're in the White House. It includes wearing N-95 masks.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The masks have become a partisan issue, unfortunately. But it's a patriotic act.

GUPTA: We know two important things. People should wear masks in public, and not all masks are equal. The quality of your cloth mask depends on its fabric and the number of layers. Studies have shown they can be as low as 26 percent effective. But the N-95 masks that some aides are wearing in the White House, 95 percent effective. Even better than the surgical masks I wear in the operating room. This is critical. And Harvard medical school's Dr. Abraar Karan is now advocating N-95 masks for all.

If for four weeks the country essentially wore these masks in those risky settings like indoors, what kind of difference do you think it would make?

ABRAAR KARAN, INTERNAL MEDICINE PHYSICIAN, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: This would stop the epidemic.

GUPTA: It's an extraordinary statement. Four weeks to essentially stop the pandemic. We're not talking about vaccines here or some sort of new magical therapeutic. Just a properly fitted $5 N-95 mask as you see here in this video.

KARAN: We know now that aerosols spread best when there's poor ventilation, crowding and close contact that's prolonged. And so we were arguing that actually those settings cloth masks alone are not going to block aerosols.

GUPTA: Remember aerosols like a puff of smoke are those tiny particles that can hang in the air and are small enough to travel through or around some face masks. And the new variants even more transmissible make masks like these more necessary. That's because the N-95 mask has a secret weapon, a unique electrostatic filter that traps neutral particles like bacteria or viruses and polarizes those particles before they can pass through the mask. Think of it like how socks get stuck to blanket in the dryer.

KARAN: If we had personal better protection for people, they can more safely go back to work.

GUPTA: Other experts have advocated for N-95s as well like former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb who wrote this. An N-95 or equivalent mask offers the best protection. Some European countries are currently finalizing rules requiring N-95 masks in shops and on public transportation.

And now more than a year into the pandemic the Biden administration is also ramping up the defense production act to make more N-95s available for health care workers who still don't have enough and then hopefully for the rest of the population as well.

[23:25:03]

KARAN: Make masks part of American culture to stop the epidemic.

GUPTA: The key here is to always wear a mask whenever you're in public. The ability to control the spread is in our hands and on our faces.

So here is the N-95 mask. I can tell you having worn these masks for some time, they can be uncomfortable if you're wearing them for long periods of time and they can also be hard to get. But it is worth pointing out that the KN-95 are a lot easier to obtain. These are similar masks that are actually manufactured out of China and they now have an emergency use authorization here in the United States because they have similar performance to the N-95.

So, it's just the most important thing, wear a mask obviously whenever you're out in public. But if it's a particularly high risk situation where you may be around a lot of people, wearing the best mask possible is going to give you the most protection.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Sanjay, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it.

The former president's impeachment trial delayed until the second week of February. Will it be enough time to convince 17 Republican Senators to get onboard?

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[23:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Senate decided tonight to delay the start of arguments in Donald Trump's upcoming impeachment trial until February 9th.

The House will still deliver the article of impeachment to the Senate on Monday evening, but Majority Leader Chuck Schumer saying that by delaying the trial by two weeks, the Senate can focus on confirming President Biden's cabinet nominees and passing a COVID-19 relief bill, which is one of the new president's -- the new president's top priority.

So, let's discuss now. CNN political commentator Charlie Dent is here. He is a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania. Good to see you, sir. Doing OK?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA REPRESENTATIVE: I'm doing great, Don. Hope you're doing well.

LEMON: I'm doing very well. Thank you. So, the former president, his senate trial is now delayed until February. Does that help or hurt the case against him?

DENT: Actually, I think it helps the case against the president because, one, it gives, I think, people more time to dig up more evidence. I mean we're going -- we're going to learn more about what happened on -- on January 6th. We're still learning. And so, I think that might give a little bit more time.

Also, I think it's -- from the Biden administration's standpoint, it makes sense because they need to get their administration stood up and they're going to need a little bit of time to get these cabinet secretaries confirmed. There may be some cabinet -- some subcabinet level folks, as well. So, I think the time makes sense for both reasons.

LEMON: Yes. So, it helps the case against him, meaning it hurts him, right?

DENT: Hurts Trump.

LEMON: Yes. And helps the Biden folks get -- do some -- get on with some pressing issues and not having this to be a distraction. Is that what you're saying?

DENT: That is correct.

LEMON: OK. Got it.

DENT: Gives them time to stand up the administration.

LEMON: The New York Times is reporting tonight that President Trump plotted with a DOJ lawyer to oust the acting attorney general so they could try to overturn the election results. Don't Senate Republicans need to consider all the ways that Trump was trying to steal the election? DENT: Uh, probably, but I suspect I would keep my focus on the events

of January 6th. Yes, I think the article of impeachment does make reference to the Georgia situation where the president tried to coerce Brad Raffensperger. I think it might be worth talking about that.

I don't know that I would make all the president's attempts to steal the election or to overturn it as the central focus. I think the insurrection itself, the assault on the Capitol, the disruption of constitutional order are more compelling in my -- in the case against the president.

And hell, they can even call witnesses. They could call -- they could call Republican witnesses, for example, who voted for impeachment. They were there. Ask them about their feelings about what happened that day.

And we have the president's own words. You know, he said he loved many of these insurrectionists in real time. I mean -- so, I think they have a strong case just on the events of January 6th.

LEMON: They can also call Republicans who voted against it, right? Tell me about the events at the Capitol. Were you afraid, what happened that day, right? Did you think your life was in jeopardy or in danger, even if they voted against it?

DENT: Absolutely. They have plenty of potential witnesses they can call, members of Congress --

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

DENT: -- who were there, who saw what was happening in real time. And so I think it's a very strong case. And you just kind of take the video. You showed that in real time, what the president was saying and why not even call the vice president? I mean, the vice president was at great risk himself personally.

LEMON: Yes.

DENT: I mean there's so many ways to play this thing. I'm not an attorney, but it doesn't strike me as a very tough case to prosecute. Now, this is a political process, of course, so members may not be as focused on the facts and considering their own political situation more than anything else.

LEMON: Yes. And even some of the officers who were there. But, listen, speaking of Republicans, CNN is reporting that dozens of influential Republicans, including former Trump officials, quietly lobbying GOP lawmakers to convict Trump. My instinct is to say that they should speak out publicly. But what do you think about these back-channel efforts that are going on here?

DENT: Well, I'm glad they're happening, Don, but I agree with what you just said. These folks need to come out of the shadows. It's long pastime that people hide behind their jobs in the previous administration. We need to hear -- we need to see the names of the people, what they did in the administration. They need to tell us these horror stories that we all know have occurred. Why they were so threatened and concerned about the president's erratic behavior and his attempt to undermine the constitutional order? I mean, I don't know why these people are afraid to speak up.

[23:35:00]

DENT: Hey, I'm glad they've got a nine-point memo and they're sharing it with senators. But if they really want the president to be convicted, they need to come out publicly and make the case. And frankly, that will also help those 10 Republicans, courageous Republicans in the House who voted to impeach.

LEMON: Charlie, thank you. Be well. See you soon.

DENT: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: The world remembering the great Hank Aaron tonight. His legacy and how he broke barriers not only on the field but also as a champion for civil rights.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

23:40:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): One ball and no strikes. Aaron waiting. The outfield deep and straight away. Fastball. It's a high drive into deep left centerfield. Buckner goes back to the fence. It is gone. What a fabulous moment --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Wow. That was the moment, the one and only Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's home run record while facing death threats and racist attacks for doing it. But he refused to let that hold him back, smashing his 715th home run on April 8, 1974. He died today at the age of 86.

And joining me now is Hall of Fame broadcaster Mr. Bob Costas. Bob, thank you. Perfect person to talk to about this.

BOB COSTAS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Don.

LEMON: He was one of the all-time greats. But for him to achieve all of that, he did after growing up in, you know, in the segregated south. That was truly remarkable, truly monumental.

COSTAS: Yes, we can start by backtracking here. Hank told me this all of what I'm about to tell you in an interview about 10 years ago. He remembered as a child growing up in Mobile, Alabama, the Ku Klux Klan marching down his street, not necessarily bent on vandalism or violence and we know they did plenty of that, but just to intimidate black residents, just to remind them that they were there, and his mother telling young Hank, eight, nine years old, hide under the bed.

He also told me how humiliating it was for his father, a man he loved, but a man who had been beaten down and broken by the Jim Crow south to have to step off the sidewalk when a white man walked toward him and step into the dirt of the street alongside the sidewalk because that was what was expected of black people in the 1930s and early 1940s and even beyond that.

And he told me of the kind of conversation that we all had in one way or another with our dads, but this has a poignant aspect to it. He said at one point he's 12, 13 years old, I want to grow up to be an airline pilot, and his dad said, ain't no black airline pilots. And he later said, I want to be a major league baseball player. His dad said, ain't no black major league baseball players.

Well, in 1947, when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in the major leagues, Hank was 13 years old. And a year or two after that, the Dodgers were barnstorming. Teams used to do that. They've come off from spring training in Florida on their way to their northeastern sites.

And the Dodgers, on their way up north to Brooklyn, stopped in various cities to play exhibition games. And when they played at a ballpark near where Hank lived in Mobile, Alabama, Hank went to see the Dodgers, yes, but specifically to see Jackie Robinson.

If he'd been able to get in, he would have had to have sit -- seated in the segregated part of the ballpark. But he didn't even have the money for a ticket. And what he did was he climbed a tree beyond the right field fence, a 14, 15-year-old kid, to peer inside the ballpark, to see that maybe his dad was wrong, and maybe there was a chance that he could be a major league ballplayer.

He was inspired by Jackie Robinson. And I think it's fair to say that there was no player since Jackie Robinson -- Jackie is at the top of that pyramid -- but no player since Jackie Robinson in baseball who is more socially significant than Henry Aaron.

LEMON: Black excellent, and that is why we fight -- one must keep going no matter the odds, no matter the barriers.

Can I read something because he faced so much racist abuse while he was chasing Babe Ruth's record? This is from his autobiography, Bob. There were times during the chase when I was so angry and tired and sick of it all that I wished I could get on a plane and not get off until I was someplace where they never heard of Babe Ruth. But damn it all, I had to break that record. I had to do it for Jackie Robinson and my people and myself and everybody who ever called me the N-word.

I know he talked to you about the hatred leading up to breaking this record.

COSTAS: Mm-hmm.

LEMON: What did he say to you?

COSTAS: Well, among other things, he said that he was aware that not only black America, but a sizable portion of white America appreciated what he did. Even then they understood to some extent what he was up against, they realized he was a great player and they were rooting for him.

But a sizable portion of America also was resistant. For some kind of context, when Roger Maris broke Babe Ruth's single-season record, hit 60 homers in 1961, some people were resistant to that because they thought that Maris wasn't as great a player as Ruth and that was true. But there wasn't a racial element. They both were white.

Nobody could say, even by 1974, nobody could say that Hank Aaron wasn't an elite Hall of Famer, one of the greatest players of all time. So the only possible reason for resistance was racism.

[23:45:01]

COSTAS: And he had it put in his face in the most hateful and virulent ways, the hate mail, the awful language, and the death threats, to the point where he had to have FBI protection, his children had to be escorted to and from school. He had reason to fear for his life.

And so in light of that, he saved boxes and boxes of that hate mail. He was not a bitter man, but he was also not blind to the reality, and he didn't want to forget about that.

But here's the key with him as an individual. He -- it didn't turn him bitter. Everybody would tell you, he was a naturally humble and kind man, and everybody who crossed his path, if you treated him with respect and decency and kindness, you got more than that in return.

It's a cliche often used in sports. He is as good a man as he is a player. Well, Hank Aaron was a great player, and he was also a genuinely great man.

LEMON: You took the words out of my mouth about humility, especially when you look at celebrities and athletes today. There are some but not to the extent that this man was. And let's not forget about -- I've got to run here, Bob, but about Billye, about Billye.

COSTAS: Elegant.

LEMON: Behind every great man, a great woman, amazing woman.

COSTAS: I'll say this very quickly, Don. I'll say this very quickly. Just the way he rounded the bases in 1974 on that night in Atlanta, having broken the most revered record in American sports, he ran it out the same way he ran home rum number 15, not home run number 715. No self-congratulation, no exhibitionism, nothing. Class, dignity, grace throughout his entire life.

LEMON: Thank you, Bob. We'll be right back.

COSTAS: Thank you, Don. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Prosecutors charging more than 125 people with federal crimes in deadly insurrection on Capitol Hill. Here is CNN's Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, it is striking just how many people are former veterans who are now accused of attacking the U.S. Capitol.

CROWD: USA! USA!

SIDNER (voice-over): They came to Washington trained in warfare wearing combat gear, forming a line, marching up the Capitol steps, and then used their training against the U.S. Capitol.

These three Americans are some of the first to face the most severe charges in the attack on the Capitol, including conspiracy, obstruction of an official proceeding, and violent entry or disorderly conduct. All three are U.S. veterans. Sixty-five-year-old Thomas Edward Caldwell served in the Navy. Fifty-year-old Donovan Ray Crowl is a former marine. This is Crowl inside the Capitol building on January 6th.

DONOVAN RAY CROWL, U.S. VETERAN: All the way in the Capitol.

UNKNOWN: We're in the (bleep) Capitol.

SIDNER (voice-over): The person who popped up behind him is Jessica Marie Watkins. She served in the Army as Jeremy David Watkins. On January 6, the former Army veteran riled up her troops in person and on a social media site Parler. We stormed the Capitol today. Watkins is a member of the Oath Keepers, and extremist anti-government group. She also started her own self-style militia in Ohio.

We wanted to know more about these Americans now charged with attacking the democratic transfer of power they claimed to support. So went to their towns. It turns out Watkins runs a bar with her partner in the village of Woodstock, Ohio.

(On camera): I spoke with a neighbor who lives down the street from this bar who didn't want to be identified. But he told us that this is the watering hole for this town of about 300 people and that when you would go to get your beer, Watkins would often try to recruit you to her militia. He said most people didn't bite. But we know at least one person did because he was in D.C. with Watkins and they were both arrested.

(Voice-over): That person was Donovan Crowl, who lives just down the street from Watkins's bar.

MONTANA SINIFF, WATKINS'S BOYFRIEND: She's not a violent person.

SIDNER (voice-over): Montana Siniff and Watkins run the bar. The two live upstairs where the FBI showed up last week.

(FLASHBANGS)

UNKNOWN: The shots woke us up and the yelling because they were on the microphone yelling it is the FBI and to come down. And it was crazy.

SIDNER (voice-over): It was flashbangs, not gunshots. The blasted-out window remains broken. Only Siniff was home and says he was questioned and released. Watkins later turned herself in.

(On camera): What was her plan?

SINIFF: She was supposed to help protect some VIP members within the Trump rally.

SIDNER: There are people calling her a traitor. How would you describe her? Is that fair?

SINIFF: That's very much an unfair statement. She would never try to dismantle the Constitution.

SIDNER: So you don't see this as an insurrection or sedition?

SINIFF: It was illegal, and those people involved do need to take their lumps but it's --

SIDNER: Including Ms. Watkins?

SINIFF: For what -- if she is found guilty of anything, then she will have to take the consequences of that.

SIDNER (voice-over): Siniff also knows Crowl and says he joined Watkins self-style militia.

SIDNER: What's he like?

SINIFF: When drunk, the guy you want to shut up. When sober, the best man you could have.

SIDNER: You came to the bar, so you saw him both drunk and sober.

SINIFF: That's how I got that barometer and the militia was a good thing to help him -- a reason to be sober.

[23:55:00]

SIDNER (voice-over): Crowl has been convicted in Ohio for drunk driving. His mother told CNN by phone that a couple years ago, her son said they were going to take over the government if they tried to take Trump's presidency from him.

His mother said she didn't think much of it until January 6th happened. About 400 miles away from Woodstock, Ohio, near Berryville, Virginia, is where Thomas Caldwell lives.

THOMAS CALDWELL, U.S. VETERAN: Every single (bleep) there is a traitor. Every single one!

SIDNER (voice-over): That is Caldwell at the Capitol calling legislators traitors. Caldwell was a delegate to the Clark County Republican Convention last year. In Washington, D.C., authorities say he was a co-conspirator with Crowl and Watkins in the assault on the Capitol.

SINIFF: I do not believe the charges of conspiracy are at all fair.

SIDNER: It is unclear how Caldwell knew Crowl and Watkins, but according to federal prosecutors, they were all in Washington, D.C. and Watkins was using the Zello application on her phone to both communicate and plan the attack on the Capitol. Don?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Sara, thank you very much. Appreciate that. What a week, everyone. Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

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