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Don Lemon Tonight
U.S. Lost 500,000 Americans From COVID; Merrick Garland, If Confirmed, Promises To Prosecute Domestic Terrorists; Donald Trump Not In Good Mood Over Tax Issues; Trump Ally Sticks With The Election Fraud Lie; Trump Facing His Life's Greatest Nightmares; Justice Clarence Thomas With His 11-Page Dissent. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 22, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Tonight, we finally do the right thing. Please, be sure to watch the CNN special, We Remember 500,000, a national memorial for COVID-19 tonight at 11 p.m. Eastern. Right now, the big show, "CNN TONIGHT" with the big star, D. Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Can you believe after a year, I mean, we were -- I remember when you got it. I mean, we were frightened. We didn't know what would happen. And that was in the early stages. And then, you know, we thought 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, 30, 100,000, we thought that was a lot then. And look where we are now. We're at half a million people.
CUOMO: And who knows where it goes. And it's really important. You know, kind of like January 6th than the shock that people had the trial of the scenes. Yes, because nobody talks about it. And that's about political interest.
And it was the same thing here, brother, and everybody knows it. You know, what did Trump want people to believe about me that I wasn't sick, that I didn't have it. What did you hear from the righty fringe? I don't know that he was sick. I heard this. I heard that. Why? Why would that be relevant? The denial of the reality was the gain for him.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And it not only made us sick, it literally killed so many people that it didn't have to be. These were not inevitable deaths, Don.
LEMON: Well, what's interesting to me is that the former president had a year to try to get this under control. And he downplayed it and lied about it and tried to pretend that it was going to go away and held super spreader events and tried to pretend that he knew more than the expert. And recommended taking, you know, injecting bleach and disinfectant and sunlight and all of those really crazy things.
And now you have the right coming after the current president's saying, well, you know, what are you going to do something about it? OK. Fine. The guy just got there. Why not have that same level of urgency and of questioning with the former president than they have with the current. I don't get.
CUOMO: Of course, you get it. And it's so ugly, it's so obvious deep denial. We made ourselves sick and we have to realize how so we can make ourselves better. They play to advantage. And look, I know this comes with a price. I know that they will attack. They care about deaths. They care about bad things like violence when it suits them. All summer long they were so worried about political violence. Not on January 6 when they were running for their own lives.
It is as ugly as it is obvious. And, yes, they'll come after you for saying it because that's the state of play and people love the blood lust of it. But the truth matters, Don, because people are going to look back at this --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- as a low point in our history. We've never seen Americans let one another die for reasons like this.
LEMON: That's why.
CUOMO: Ever before.
LEMON: Yes. Think about -- I mean, think about a half million people so far, and you still have idiots out there saying it's not real, it's a hoax, you're taking away my liberty because I don't want to wear a mask. It is just -- it is the worst human behavior, the worst aspect of human behavior that I have seen that culminated into an insurrection on Capitol Hill.
CUOMO: And a political irony.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I'll let you go. The president was so against any social distancing, any closures, any requirements. They may have saved his ass and I'll tell you why.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: If people had been able to hold funerals all along this time, and you saw procession after procession --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: All of that. That's a very good point.
CUOMO: -- and the pain and the sorrow and the loss --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That's a very good point.
CUOMO: -- it would have been so much more palpable. People have had to suffer in silence. They didn't even get to say goodbye.
LEMON: I said goodbye to one of my friends. And I think you know him, Robby Browne --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- who was a big real estate guy here in the city. A great guy, charitable guy, philanthropic. He had this big thing for AIDS that he did every year, raised millions of dollars, and one of the biggest real estate agents in the city. And he died, and I still have not had a chance to mourn. We haven't put together any sort of thing for him because it just keeps going on. people are --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: And remember, it's not just the people who die from COVID, it's the people who died during this time period.
LEMON: During this time, yes.
CUOMO: You know, we lost my godmother --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- and you know, my uncle Nick in the family, you know, there before the grace --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- they held each other together.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And they suffered in silence because they couldn't celebrate my aunt the way she deserves. We will --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- but that's part of this also, and it was all about denying the reality for political advantage.
[22:05:04]
LEMON: Yes. I think about our former colleague, Sunny Hostin, her in- laws --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- both of them died of COVID, and they can't mourn them properly. So, my heart goes out to Sunny --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: No, and it's an important point of the process.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: And I'm just saying, look, they'll talk about this. They'll cast political blame. You know, it's going on right now in my life, right? I'm just saying be even about it, because you don't get to see it in some places and not others. If you want to make the case, make the case every time.
LEMON: Yes. Proportionality. Proportionality and don't be hypocritical. Thank you, sir.
CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I was waiting for that.
CUOMO: Favorite part of my --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I love you more. I'll see you soon.
So, you know, this is an incredible milestone that we're talking about. One that we wish we had not reached.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us.
President Joe Biden giving a message to America tonight, and one I think that only this president, president could give, not the former one, the message that this country needs on a night that the death toll from the pandemic passed 500,000 people. people. Let's remember that.
The message the country needs after a year of mass death on a scale that first horrified us and then it overwhelmed us and then it made us numb.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I know what it's like to not be there when it happens. I know what it's like when you are there, holding their hands. There's a look in their eye and they slip away, that black hole in your chest. You feel like you're being sucked into it.
The survivor's remorse, the anger, the questions of faith in your soul. For some of you, it's been a year, a month, a week, a day, even an hour. And I know that when you stare at that empty chair around the kitchen table, it brings it all back no matter how long ago it happened, as if it just happened that moment you look at that empty chair.
The birthdays, the anniversaries, the holidays without them, and the everyday things, the small things, the tiny things that you miss the most. That scent when you open the closet. That park you go by that you used to stroll in. That movie theater where you met. The morning coffee you shared together. The bend in his smile, the perfect pitch to her laugh. I know it's hard, I promise you I know it's hard. I remember. But that's how you heal, you have to remember. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I can only imagine him in this moment doing that. I can't imagine the former president doing that at all, ever. Flags at half-staff at the White House, I should say, and the capitol flown at half-staff.
The capitol where just a short -- a few short weeks ago, a mob of domestic terrorists, racist domestic terrorists, incited by the then- president rioted. President Joe Biden's nominee for attorney general promises investigating the attack on Capitol Hill will be his top priority and vows to fully prosecute the white supremacists and terrorists who stormed the seat of our government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: If confirmed, I will supervise the prosecution of white supremacists and others who stormed the capitol on January 6. A heinous attack that sought to disrupt a cornerstone of our democracy, the peaceful transfer of power to a newly elected government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So as Merrick Garland was testifying, one of the Capitol Hill police officers who fought the mob was speaking out about the hate he saw on display that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: I call it a (muted). A couple dozen times today protecting this building. Is this America? They beat police officers with blue lives matter flags. They fought us. They had confederate flags in the U.S. capitol. They stormed the speaker's office. They went through their sensitive documents. They were trying to assassinate the vice president in the capitol.
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And yet the Trumplicans are doing what, making excuses for that insurrection. Merrick Garland promised to bring white supremacists and terrorists to justice. He promised to hold them accountable for the hate they paraded through the capitol. And then he told us why. Why it means so much to him.
[22:10:02]
The would-be attorney general fighting back tears as he remembered the hate that drove his grandparents to flee this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARLAND: I come from a family where my grandparents fled anti-Semitism and persecution. The country took us in. And it protected us. I feel an obligation to the country to pay back, and this is the highest best use of my own set of skills to pay back, and so I want very much to be the kind of attorney -- attorney general that you're saying I could become. I'll do my best to try and be that kind of attorney general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I should say to flee to this country. This is a person the GOP kept off the court. Who they denied even hearing, let alone a fair vote, a seat, right? Just denied it. Merrick Garland promising to stop at nothing to investigate that terrible day, to follow every lead, to pursue justice.
That as the former president, the instigator of that deadly attack on the capitol and on our democracy is lashing out tonight after his very bad day at the Supreme Court. In one morning, the court looking to wash his hands of everything that is Trump, defeating his attempts to keep his taxes under wraps, and his big lie falsely claiming widespread voter fraud in the last election.
The defeat on his taxes was exactly what Trump feared, what he fought and thought to keep from happening. The former president outraged tonight, putting out a statement saying that they never should have let this fishing expedition happen. But they did.
Going on to blast prosecutors and attorneys, attorneys general who, in his words, tried to take down their political opponents using the law as a weapon.
Seriously, that is rich coming from him. Really, he said that? He really said that? Donald Trump, who as president, used the law as a weapon over and over? Tried to, at least. Rewarding his cronies with pardons and commutations.
He now thinks he's getting the short end of the stick all of a sudden? Now he sees the light because he's getting the short end of the stick? He had the legal system work for him, for him, not the country. I thought the attorney general worked for him as his personal attorney, not the attorney for the country. What a contrast with Merrick Garland who said this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARLAND: I am not the president's lawyer. I am the United States' lawyer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Merrick Garland promising a return to actual law and order, right, what law and order really means. While the former president who claimed to be the law and order president, he thinks the Supreme Court should be loyal to him and do his bidding.
Just like he thought the Justice Department should be loyal to him and do his bidding. And the irony of him saying justice should never be used as a weapon? Well let's just say Donald Trump probably doesn't see the irony there. And then there is House minority whip Steve Scalise during the former
president's bidding, still refusing to admit the election was not stolen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN KARL, CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: Joe Biden won the election. He is the legitimate President of the United States. The election was not stolen, correct?
REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Look, Joe Biden is the president. There were a few states that did not follow their state laws. That's really the dispute that you've seen continue on.
KARL: But, Congressman, I know Joe Biden is the president, he lives at the White House.
SCALISE: Yes.
KARL: I asked you, is he the legitimate President of the United States, and do you concede that this election was not stolen? Very simple question. Please just answer it.
SCALISE: Once the electors are counted, yes, he is the legitimate president. But if you're going to ignore the fact that there were states that did not follow their own state's legislatively set laws, that's the issue at heart that millions of people still are not happy with and don't want to see happen again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Can't even say it. After all of the legal wrangling, all of the Republican attorneys general, the Supreme Court, still can't -- still can't admit it, still can't say it. Even now he's buying into the big lie. It's all a lie. It is a lie, Steve Scalise, and you should know better.
But the Supreme Court handed the former president a stinging defeat on that big lie today, a stinging defeat on a Pennsylvania election case over mail-in ballots, basically saying, let it go. It's over.
[22:15:08]
And then there's Justice Clarence Thomas. Putting out a dissent that could have been tailor-made for the former president, 11 pages that referred to fraud 10 times. The big lie all over again. They found no fraud. His own court ruled to that. No fraud.
What America needs now is truth. The truth that the election was not stolen and the truth about the pandemic that has killed more than 500,000 of us. Can we please start to live in reality, people? Can we please stop lying? Can we please stop doing other people's bidding? The election was not stolen. It was legitimate. The most secure election according to our security folks ever. Come over to reality, Trumplicans. The water is fine. It's warm. In Washington, D.C. today, something finally happened that should have
happened a long time ago. Judge Merrick Garland got a confirmation hearing. What will happen if he takes charge of the investigation of the capitol attack?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARLAND: I think this was the most heinous attack on the Democratic processes that I've ever seen and one that I never expected to see in my lifetime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
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LEMON (on camera): So, if you had any doubt about how different things are in Washington since last month, well, let me just talk to you about two big news events today, OK?
President Biden remembering 500,000 Americans who lost their lives in the coronavirus pandemic.
Merrick Garland, his nominee for attorney general, testifying at his confirmation hearing saying forcefully that he will fully prosecute those responsible for the attack on the capitol last month.
Lots to discuss right now with CNN's chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins is here, and legal analyst Elie Honig. Good to see both of you. Good evening.
Kaitlan, you know, we have lived through death and destruction that really, it seems to come out of the blue and all the time we, you know, we never heard anything like this from the former administration. And now Joe Biden is doing this tonight, marking it, and the message is different now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's -- it could not be more different, really, when you look at the two of them. That was what I thought about as President Biden was out there on the south lawn earlier tonight, taking that moment of silence with "Amazing Grace" playing in the background, and those 500,000 candles to represent the half a million people who have now died from coronavirus.
That was the same spot where President Trump when he was in office, was hosting a lot of his allies and supporters to accept the Republican nomination, right there on the south lawn.
So, you just see how differently they're responding to this. What you heard from President Biden and the remarks that he gave before was really trying to strike this empathetic tone by talking directly to those people who have lost a loved one, because of course he knows grief very well. That's been a big part of his public life. And so, he was kind of hinging on that, talking about that as he was
making this address. And he was also looking forward to what's to come, talking about how we cannot keep living like the way we are right now.
And that's what really was also so different from former President Trump is, every time you heard from them it was always forward looking. And we've heard that from the some of the health officials who worked for them as they felt like they always had to only talk about the good news and not the realistic news, of what was actually going on.
But you really did see kind of both sides of that from President Biden earlier tonight as they were trying to mark this. And of course, we should also note that they did lower the flags to half-staff as well in honor of those who have passed away from coronavirus.
LEMON: Elie, there's another massive change of an approach at the Justice Department. Let's talk about the confirmation hearing of Attorney General Merrick Garland. We learned that investigating the capitol riot is going to be a top priority for him. He recognized the current threat of domestic extremists and white supremacy.
He talked emotionally and personally about justice and what that means to him. How big a change will that be at the DOJ if he is confirmed -- I said attorney general -- if he is confirmed to be attorney general?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Don, it's a 180. It was exactly what, as a former prosecutor, as a DOJ alum, I wanted to hear. The clarity that Merrick Garland brought to the January 6 situation. He said straight up this is going to be my top priority.
And by the way, I have the same reaction as Kaitlan thinking about the contrast here. I contrast to Merrick Garland's clarity about the threat of domestic extremism with the prior attorney general Bill Barr who bent himself in half to tried to avoid ever acknowledging the threat of domestic extremism, following Donald Trump's lead on that.
I also thought it was really significant that Merrick Garland said today, not only am I going to go after the people, the individuals who actually physically went into the capitol, but we're going to take this as far as it goes, and go beyond that to go after to investigate potentially prosecute --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Elie, let's play that.
HONIG: -- the people who were responsible for this.
LEMON: Let's play it and we'll let you continue. Here it is.
HONIG: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GARLAND: Investigations, you know, I began as a line assistant U.S. attorney, and I was a supervisor. We begin with the people on the ground and we work our way up to those who were involved and further involved. And we will pursue these leads wherever they take us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Could that include right up to the former president?
HONIG: Sure. If they determine that he incited that had riot, I believe he did. And look, that's what a real prosecutor does. You work your way up, you go after the people who are really behind the scenes, who were really the most powerful pulling the strings.
LEMON: Kaitlan and Elie, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
Years of denial in hiding all unraveling in one morning. The Supreme Court granting the New York attorney general access to Trump's taxes, and they're getting all the receipts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They're extremely complex. People wouldn't understand them. They're done among the biggest and best law firms in the country. Same thing with the accounting firms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:25:06]
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LEMON (on camera): The Supreme Court denying former President Trump's last-ditch effort to hide his tax returns. That means Manhattan prosecutors will have access to multiple years of Trump's tax documents within days.
This all started as part of an investigation into hush money payments made to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, two women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump before he was president.
So, joining me now is former Trump White House communications director, Anthony Scaramucci, and William Cohan, he is the author of "House of Cards: A Tale of Hubris and Wretched Excess on Wall Street."
Good evening. William, you said this day would come. And I wasn't so sure when you told me that, but, alas, you were correct. So, thank you guys both for joining us.
[22:30:01]
William, "The New York Times" has reported Trump paid little or no taxes for over a dozen years. But prosecutors are now getting access to everything that comes with those taxes, including bank records and receipts. What could these documents reveal?
WILLIAM COHAN, FORMER MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS BANKER, WALL STREET: Well, Don, first let me thank you for having me back to talk about this, and second, I think this may turn out to be the worst day in Donald Trump's life. Not by a little bit, but by a lot. Because just looking at the impeachment votes, that he got impeached twice, and both times we knew the outcome, unfortunately.
But this time there is an outcome that he cannot control. There is many millions of pages here of documents, memoranda, conversations, et cetera, e-mails between his people and various accountants, et cetera. This could be an extraordinary treasure trove for the Manhattan District attorney Cyrus Vance and his crack team that he's assembled to look at these.
So, I think this is going to be a day that Donald Trump is going to rue for a long time. This is just the beginning of what will be a very long process. But again, I have to take some pleasure in the fact that Donald Trump's Supreme Court, the three justices that he put on the court and pushed for so hard, were part of the team that was responsible for making this day happen.
LEMON: Didn't save him. It didn't save him at all. So, listen.
COHAN: Didn't save him.
LEMON: Anthony, you know, Trump spent years fighting to keep this information private. What do you -- what do you think he's most afraid of getting out?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, it's sort of already gotten out. And you know, Mary Trump wrote about it and the New York Times has written about it. He over --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Mary Trump just told Chris, you know, that he's been committing tax fraud for decades, but you know --
SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
LEMON: -- that's what she said.
SCARAMUCCI: But she wrote about it, she wrote about it in her book. But if you go through the analysis, some of these think tanks have gone through the analysis, he's overstated the income for purposes of getting mortgagees and loans on those buildings, and he understated it for purposes of filing his tax returns.
So, you know, that's a felony. That comes with many, many years in jail, and he's got a lot of people that are around him that are involved with it. Now the question is, did he silently pardon himself and his family members, Don? We're not going to know that until the case gets into the red zone.
So, we'll have to see if that happened. My guess is that he probably pardoned some people. I'm not so sure if he went as far as pardoning himself. But my bet is that he pardoned some people around him.
But remember, anybody that's been pardoned and once that's found out, they no longer have the fifth amendment right. So, he's sort of, on that balancing beam there. If I pardon people, they can testify, they have no protection not to, and if I don't pardon them, some of them may go to jail.
So, you know, trust me, he's thinking about it every day. I do disagree with Mary on that. She probably knows him better than me but not by much. I think he is whacked out with anxiety over this thing. He'll try to play it off by playing golf and saying nonsensical things now in his post presidential statements, but I think he's loaded up with anxiety over this.
LEMON: Is that -- was that a nod of agreement, William?
COHAN: Anthony is spot on, absolutely. And you know, don't forget you've got people like Michael Cohen who was by his side who can be, you know, Cy Vance has subpoena power. Michael Cohen can be subpoenaed. Allen Weisselberg who was the chief accountant of the Trump Organization can be subpoenaed; I assume.
These people are going to help and be incredibly important to FTI Consulting that Cy Vance has hired, and Mr. Pomerantz, the new attorney that he's hired. But he has an excellent team around him.
Again, this is a very, very bad day for Donald Trump. This is probably his worst nightmare. He's got, you know, millions of documents to go through and they're going to find what they're looking for, I'm convinced.
LEMON: As close as you can get to yes one-word answer, William, what about his kids? Two of his kids are still running his company, there's another company owned by Ivanka Trump that's part of it as well. Are his children facing trouble?
COHAN: Well, I mean, this consulting arrangement that Ivanka had when she was supposedly on the payroll is very devious sounding and mysterious with the New York Times reported on, I think that's going to be a problem for Ivanka Trump.
LEMON: So, Anthony, Trump is facing multiple legal problems, both civil and criminal. But his grip on the GOP still seems really strong right now. Could any revelations from these investigations change that, do you think?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, there's no question. Once he's indicted, that probably won't change it. But if he pleads out or if he -- there's a guilty conviction, I think it's over for him.
[22:35:01]
But remember, you know, the CPAC guys are just like him. I mean, they're playing the money game. They know there is a 15 percent to 20 percent fringe, Don, that will pour money into the nonsense that President Trump is spouting. That's good for CPAC in the short term, it's good for that fringe of the party in the short term, but it's very, very bad for them in the long term, because you know, normal people are disaffecting from the party.
LEMON: Yes. Great conversation. We'll continue as this -- as this goes on. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it.
One hundred sixty-five bills, 33 states. Republicans across the country are pushing bills that make it harder to vote. Why are they doing that? Some of the things that they say would make voting safer are actively targeting black voters. Stacey Abrams is here. She weighs in, next.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): So here is what that signal that the Supreme Court sent today. That they're not interested in cases dealing with the 2020 election results rejecting an election appeal from Pennsylvania Republicans.
Three justices dissenting including Clarence Thomas, who in his 11- page dissent parodied some of Trump's baseless claims in his big lie of -- about his big lie of election fraud. So, Justice Thomas questioning the reliability of mail-in ballots despite no evidence, none, of widespread fraud.
And then writing this. We are fortunate that many of the cases we have seen allege only improper rule changes, not fraud. But that observation provides only small comfort. In an election free from strong evidence of systemic fraud is not alone sufficient for election confidence. Also important is the assurance that fraud will not go undetected.
So, joining me now is Stacey Abrams. Stacey Abrams is the founder of Fair Fight Action and the author of "Our Time is Now." Good to see you, leader Abrams. I'm so happy that you're here.
Let's talk about this. Are you surprised by Justice Thomas showing sympathy for Trump and others in this dissent that he wrote in?
STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT ACTION: Not at all. Both Justice Thomas and his wife have unfortunately shown sympathies with the unproven allegation of fraud. But more concerningly, the refusal to accept the evidence of their eyes, which is that nothing happened other than mitigation of voter suppression which has been the law of the land for too long.
LEMON: One of the states Trump targeted in his big lie was Georgia, and you know Georgia very well. Republicans there are now pushing a bill that would restrict voting, eliminate Sunday polling which is of course a big factor, right, many African-Americans go to Souls to the Polls, right? And the they want to eliminate the use of drop boxes. I'm sure you're going to fight this. What are you going to do?
ABRAMS: Well let's be clear. This is the omnibus version of the House consolidation of voter suppression bills. There's actually more than 24 bills that have been introduced. I think the number now stands at 25 or 26.
But the reality is that they've spent most of this legislative session trying to fix a problem that they almost uniformly said did not exist. And the cheerleaders for this voter suppression activity are Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state, and Brian Kemp, the governor. The two were lauded by so many of their stalwart protection of the right to vote.
I was always very clear that they weren't protecting the right to vote, they were protecting the system that they created. And now that that system has worked for too many voters in their estimation, they're working hard to rescind access to the ballot. They're working to shut down polling places again by eliminating the number of days of early voting.
They are trying to put limits on precincts. They are doing their best to eliminate Sunday voting. Seventy-one thousand Georgians took advantage of that including 36.7 percent of whom were African-America. They specifically have said throughout the Republican Party that the only way to win elections going forward would be to actually limit access to the ballot.
That was said by the chair of the Gwinnett County board of elections, the second largest county in our state. And so, what's happening in Georgia is being replicated in Texas, in Arizona, in Pennsylvania.
LEMON: Well, as 33 states proposing -- let me just clear for our viewers and then I'll let you respond.
ABRAMS: Yes.
LEMON: But bills like this one in Georgia, and you just mentioned some of it in Texas and Arizona, they're proposing more -- 33 states are proposing more than 165 bills to make election --
ABRAMS: Exactly.
LEMON: -- law changes. Do you think republicans could actually win back the House and Senate if laws like this pass? Go on.
ABRAMS: They absolutely can. That was going to be my point, that we've seen the most egregious bills come out of the states that were either closest or that actually flipped. So, Pennsylvania, which had gone Republican in 2016 went for Joe Biden in 2020. The same in Arizona and in Georgia.
And what we're seeing is that across the country in states where there were close elections or where they fear close elections, their solution is not to improve their policies or to improve their responses to the needs of the people. Their response is to make it harder for the people to participate.
The only solution that I see right now given the extreme gerrymandering that exists in many of these states is that we pass HR- 1 For the People Act, which will provide a floor for democracy in America, that will say that no longer will geography determine the quality of your citizenship. Because right now American citizens who are eligible to vote are treated vastly differently depending on where they live the day they decide to participate in our democracy.
LEMON: Let -- I want to talk about this -- form Senator Kelly Loeffler today launching her greater Georgia group to boost voter registration. It looks like the GOP answer to your organizations and what she's doing. Are you worried about what she's doing?
[22:45:08]
ABRAMS: If the GOP answer to expanding the access to our democracy and defending the fundamentals of our democracy is to do something that's counter, that should be something that every patriot in America pushes back against.
I welcome anyone who actually wants to encourage access to the vote, anyone who wants to make certain that every eligible voter can cast their ballot and have those ballots counted. But what Kelly Loeffler and her allies in the GOP have said in Georgia and elsewhere is they don't want every Georgian to vote, they want the Georgians they like to vote.
She was very specific that their target is going to be partisan registration of only conservative voters. The work that we did in Georgia was to encourage and protect democracy for everyone. And so, if Kelly Loeffler intends to actually serve all of Georgia, she is welcome to join the fight, but if her fight is going to be to limit access to the right to vote in Georgia, she's got a big fight coming.
LEMON: I don't understand. It just seems undemocratic and un-American to try to limit people's access to the polling place, the voting booth, because that's a fundamental right under the -- in the Constitution, protected by the Constitution. So why do you think people like Kelly Loeffler -- let's just say that Kelly Loeffler is out there fighting for everyone to have as much access, right, as possible, that would be fine.
But then you have the other things, like these other bills, 165 -- 165 bills to change these laws and try to limit voting. Why must say do -- why can't they just get out there and do what you're doing, what LaTosha Brown is doing and try to get as many people access to the polling places as possible instead of trying to limit people?
ABRAMS: First of all, the Constitution doesn't actually guarantee us the right to vote. What the Constitution does is preclude certain categories of voters from being denied the right to vote. And so, the 15th amendment guarantees that African -- that blacks have the right to vote. The 19th amendment said the same for women. It was the 26th amendment that said that for young people between the ages of 18 and 21.
But the reality is we have a system that is fractured and divisive that delegates to the state and relegates the power to the state to determine who actually has access to the ballot. And what we see happening with Kelly Loeffler and her ilk is that
they're returning to what has worked for so many in times when demographics are changing and when power is shifting. Instead of updating their beliefs and their policies to meet the moment, they instead try to remove people from participation.
That's why Nse Ufot, who runs the New Georgia Project, LaTosha Brown, Helen Butler, the leaders of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, (Inaudible), and so many other groups have been working hard to expand access to the right vote. It's only eligible citizens who will ever be able to cast the ballot but it should be every eligible citizen that we should want to participate.
And it is deeply disappointing to me, in fact, it is deeply disheartening that a former U.S. senator would spend her time and her resources to publicly engage in once again the type of conspiracy theories that say that only certain Americans should be valued and have their votes counted.
And that's what Kelly Loeffler is proposing, but I can't be surprised that she accepted the support of Marjorie Taylor Greene, a QAnon conspiracy theorists, because in her mind winning at all costs is more important than protecting the United States and the fundamentals of our democracy.
LEMON: I'm glad -- I'm glad you clarified what I said about the Constitution. That is why John Lewis fought so hard for the Voting Rights Act and people are fighting for that.
Stacey Abrams, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to see you. Thank you.
ABRAMS: Thank you.
LEMON: More than 500,000 friends, parents, siblings, neighbors lost to coronavirus. Stay with us.
[22:50:00]
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LEMON (on camera): So tonight, more than 500,000 Americans are dead because of the coronavirus. Over the past year on this program, we have heard the heartbreaking stories of Americans grieving for loved ones.
We met Sofia Burke, a nurse from New Jersey who contracted COVID. Seven of the eight members of her household came down with it. Her 93- year-old father did not survive.
I spoke to Shawn and Brandon Blackwell, brothers who lost both of their parents to COVID, Paul and Rosemary Blackwell of Texas died together, holding each other's hands.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRANDON BLACKWELL, LOST PARENTS TO COVID: You know, it still just seems unreal. Like, me and my brother were talking earlier like my mom and dad are just going to walk through that door any second. But, you know, we know that they're not. And it's just -- it's just the hardest decision I can say that any child has to make for their parents. And like I said I'm just glad that my brother was there with me and I was able to lean on him as he was able to lean on me because that was just a crazy experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And there was also Lissette Vallejo from Florida, who lost her husband and her father-in-law to coronavirus. They were both doctors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISSETTE VALLEJO, LOST HUSBAND TO COVID-19: My husband is my hero. I miss very much. He was a very kind person. He would go out of the way to help any human being. At any time of the day he would wake up and go to the hospital and help anybody.
When it was the COVID section, he would tell me I need to go see my patients. And I was like, try to be careful. And he goes, no, these are -- I love these people, these are my family. And he would spend every day going to the hospital in the front lines, helping another human being.
[22:55:06]
And for me, I'm truly devastated losing him. But he was a great doctor, and my hero forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): But I want you to think about, think again about what we saw tonight. The president and the first lady, the vice president and her husband, all wearing masks during a moment of silence outside the South Portico of the White House tonight amid a candlelight vigil.
I want you to compare that to the former president standing on the Portico's balcony last fall after returning to the White House from being hospitalized for COVID and defiantly ripping off his mask.
Tonight, we've lost half a million Americans. We can never undo what has been done but we can remember them, mourn them, and we can promise to do better.
Five hundred thousand deaths. CNN pays tributes to these half million lives lost from coronavirus. Remember 500,000. Jake Tapper hosts right after this.
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