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Don Lemon Tonight

Massive COVID Rescue Bill Expected To Pass House Tomorrow; Biden Plans Media Blitz To Sell COVID Relief Bill; Benefits Of COVID Relief Bill; Royal Family's First Reaction To Interview, Saddened By Harry And Meghan Interview; Donald Trump Versus The GOP; Republicans Attack Two Biden Nominees Of Color. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired March 09, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): We are now just hours away from the House taking its final vote on President Biden's landmark $1.9 trillion COVID relief legislation. The final passage tomorrow expected along party lines. Of course, doubtful any Republicans will support it.

The president says that he'll sign the bill into law as soon as it gets into his desk. Stimulus checks will be in the hands of needy Americans over the next few weeks.

And Queen Elizabeth releasing a statement saying the royal family is saddened at Harry and Meghan's bombshell allegation of racism and neglect. Joining me now, CNN political analyst, Astead Herndon and political commentator Amanda Carpenter. Good evening to both. Astead, you're first.

We are likely just hours away from President Biden's massive COVID relief bill passing. That means $1,400 checks to struggling Americans, billions of dollars for vaccines and COVID testing. As Biden once said to the former President Barack Obama, this is a big f'ing dealing.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST. NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES (on camera): This is the key piece of legislation that they knew they wanted to kick off this administration and he's going to get it done. There's a couple of important things here to know. One, he did not have to scale down the scope and size of this agreement. It remains at its kind of $1.9 trillion investment in which what the president proposed.

Now it did lose some pieces, right. It lost the $15 minimum wage. It pared down some of the unemployment insurance benefits. But this remains at its core, a massive victory for both the White House and to be clear, for the American people who are crying out for that COVID relief.

We can say kind of unequivocally that those Georgia races had a huge impact on the scope of legislation that was able to be passed, because this required such a Democratic kind of unified effort. It would not have happened, of course, without those special elections being won back in January.

LEMON: So, Amanda, this bill has the bipartisan support of the American people but not a single Republican lawmaker supporting it. Did the GOP get rolled? They just haven't realized it yet?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ AND THE AUTHOR OF GASLIGHTING AMERICA (on camera): Yes, I think this bill is so massive. I mean, we pay attention to the $1,400 checks because that's what we think of as COVID relief, but man, you look at the details of this bill, Joe Biden got a lot. This is practically FDR level type of reform that he's getting.

There's $86 billion union pension bailout. There's a complete transformation of the child tax credit, so it becomes sort of a direct payment in the form of a monthly allowance. There's an expansion of Obamacare. I mean, when you talk about a massive victory for the Democrats, it it's not just the relief checks that are going out.

There's so much more on the details. And I actually think, you know, the Republican, because the Democrats chose to pass those with a 50- vote threshold, they essentially took a pass. Like, where was the debate on all of these other details. They were talking about Dr. Seuss. And I think it's going take them many, many weeks to realize how much they actually got rolled by not choosing to engage in this debate.

[23:05:10]

LEMON: But listen. You mentioned Dr. Seuss, and you know, they're complaining and calling this bill socialist, but instead of trying to amend it, right. They were busy talking about those issues like Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potato Head and all the culture wars. I mean, that's seemingly what's important to them right now. But instead -- you know, I'm not sure if it's a fair characteristic to say that.

Just because it's not the $1,400 checks or it doesn't have anything to do with shots going directly into people's arms, Amanda that that has still has nothing to do with COVID relief, because a lot of businesses are struggling. There's going to be children that need help. There are many aspect of American culture and society that are going to need help recovering because of COVID.

CARPENTER: Sure. Yes, and a lot of the bill does deal with that, but $86 million pension bailout? I mean, the problems with union pensions is far predated what happened with COVID. Transforming the child tax credit, like -- listen, maybe that should be done. I mean, this essentially universal basic income tax file program.

I mean, Andrew Yang should be dancing in the streets. And it might be a good idea to do that. Is it related to COVID? Probably not. I mean, this has all got jammed through, stuffed in. And y, I think Democrats should be happy about it, but there's a lot to unpack here.

LEMON: Yes. Maybe you're right, Republicans -- they don't realize how they -- as you say, maybe they got rolled, right? Or they are going to look back.

CARPENTER: Big time.

LEMON: They're going to look back and go, why were we talking about those things instead of focusing on the issues?

Astead, President Biden is about to make a big push to convince Americans that this benefits should be permanent, right? Not just this one time thing that it should be permanent. Starting with his primetime address on Thursday night. What does he need to say given that we know certain aspects of this bill are broadly popular and bipartisan?

HERNDON: This is going to be the first step of Democrats taking credit for these efforts. Now, there's a couple things that the party has learned from 2009 with the stimulus package that President Obama passed. One was about-- kind of cutting out Republicans and kind of going for the full scope of reform, keeping that big price tag to make a fuller investment rather than pair it down for they will try to get the Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski type of vote.

The second, is about this type of messaging. They think that Democrats didn't take enough credit for the good that they did in 2009 for the economy and that hurt them in the 2010 elections. We're going hear a drumbeat of Democrats say over and over and over, this is what the Party gave you. This is delivering on its promises. They hope that helps them in the midterms.

A quick word on the Dr. Seuss, Mr. Potato Head, Republicans are focus on this, not just because it's an issue that motivates their base, but they think that their base is motivated by that long-term question of who has societal and cultural power. That is what this stuff is really about. It's not really about the gender of the potato or the canceling of the book.

It's about who gets to have a say in what is popular and what is not, what is mainstream and what is not. They think their base is worried about the long-term loss of power from the kind of traditional and white and mainstream, and what we have determined has been the power hold centers of America, and that is what Republicans think motivates their section. That's what the kind of cancel culture debates are truly getting at.

LEMON: And these virtual times I must say that I appreciate both Astead and Amanda for giving us brick wall tonight. Thank you both. You guys give good brick wall. Thank you very much.

(LAUGHTER)

Now I want to bring in the chair of the Democratic National Committee, Jaime Harrison. Jaime, good to see you. Thanks for joining. So, experts are saying that this COVID relief bill could cut child poverty in half. I know this is very personal for you. You grew up in poverty. What would this bill have given a kid like and your family?

JAIME HARRISON, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIR (on camera): Well, Don, it's good seeing you, man. And listen, I often tell the stories, I remember times growing up, looking for a bowl of cereal and going to the fridge to get milk and there wasn't any. Not because somebody forgot it but because we couldn't afford it. So, I had to put water on my cereal. This bill is going to have a dramatic impact on the lives of low income kids across the country.

They say about 93 percent of children in these country will have be impacted, because of this. Just think about it, Don, we are increasing the child tax credit in this bill from $2,000 -- you got a kid like mine that's under the age of 6, I got a 2-year-old that will go from $2,000 to $3,600 for a poor family that is struggling right now because of COVID, that's a game changer. There's so many provisions in this bill that's going to make life easier for a lot of low-income and working people in this country.

LEMON: OK. Listen. Let's be specific here. What are the most concrete ways, Jaime, people will see the impacts of this bill in their lives?

[23:10:07]

HARRISON: Money in pockets. People will get to stay in their jobs, vaccine in arms, and kids get an opportunity to go back to school. You know, there's so many provisions in here. Let me even say, in red states, Don, where Medicaid has not been expanded, states like South Carolina, there's a provision in here that will pay for the next two years of Medicaid expansion at 100 percent.

And so in essence that's $600 million to the state of the South Carolina. There's a lot of good in this bill that will improve the quality of lives and the people in this country. And let me tell the American people something -- Democrats were unified in supporting this, and not one Republican voted for this. So in essence, they turned their backs on the American people in a time in which they needed the help the most.

LEMON: Well, this bill also includes $5 billion in aid to pay off the debt of disadvantaged black farmers and to help fund a racial equity commission in the USDA. Senator Lindsey Graham who ran against -- you run against in November is calling these reparations. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Let me give you an example of something that really bothers me. In this bill, if you're a farmer, your loan will be forgiven up to 120 percent of your own, not 100 percent, but 120 percent of your loan, if you're socially disadvantaged -- if you're African-American, some other minority. But if you're a white person, if your a white woman, no forgiveness as reparations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, so Jaime, that takes some mental gymnastics. Just because this helps black farmers, somehow Senator Graham thinks this is reparations.

HARRISON: Well, what you got right there was an example of a Senator who doesn't work for all of his citizens, Don. You know, Lindsey should be ashamed of himself. Donald Trump during his administration gave out $28 billion to farmers. And ask how many black farmers in South Carolina benefitted from that, he was as quiet as a church mouse.

This guy is reprehensible in terms of who does he actually represent? He doesn't represent all the people that he's supposed to represent in the state of South Carolina. A state where almost a third of its population is African-American.

It's far time that we got rid of the deadweight in the Senate like Lindsey Graham. And let me tell you this, there's plenty of it in 2022. And we are targeting them and we are going to make sure that we're going get somebody who's going to fight or all their people, not just the select people.

LEMON: Jaime, thank you, sir.

HARRISON: Thank you, my friend.

LEMON: I'll see you soon.

HARRISON: Thank you.

LEMON: OS, talking about race may be the last taboo in Britain, but it seems like everybody is finally talking about it in the wake of Meghan and Harry's block buster interview. Well, not everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Sir, can I ask what did you think of the interview?

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

LEMON: So the queen is responding to Harry and Meghan's interview with Oprah saying in a statement the whole family is saddened to learn the full extent of how challenging the last few years have been for Harry and Meghan. The issues raised, particularly of that of race, are concerning. The issues, I should say, particularly of race are concerning.

While some recollections may vary, they are taken very seriously and will be addressed by the family privately. Harry, Meghan, and Archie will always be much beloved family members, but as CNN Salma Abdelaziz explains the racism Meghan says she experienced after joining the royal family isn't surprising for many British people of color.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OPRAH WINFREY, OPRAH SHOW HOST: Did you leave the country because of racism?

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: It was a large part of it.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER (voice over): It's the interview stirring emotions across Britain. Reactions raging from shock to vitriolic rants by a popular white TV host.

UNKNOWN: This is a two-hour trash-a-ton. They portray the royal family as racist and it's a very incendiary charge. And I don't think it's actually is fair to the royal family.

ABDELAZIZ: To angry and protective tabloid headlines. So, why does the mentioned of racism provoke such defensive reactions in Britain?

In the months after Prince Harry and Meghan stepped back as senior members of the royal family, Britain faced its own moment of racial reckoning. Black Lives Matter protests in the U.S. spread to the U.K. Tens of thousands directed their anger at the country's elite institutions of power. Toppling icons of British colonialism that ignited a national debate. Yet the topic of race is considered culturally awkward if not outright taboo.

DIANE ABBOTT, FIRST FEMALE BLACK MP: The British like to think of themselves as quite liberal, the small l. And the British get quite offended. It's like (inaudible). There's something about black women, I think, that some people in this country find particularly triggering. I don't know why, but it's a combination of (inaudible) and racism and they're triggered. And Meghan came in for that in stage.

ABDELAZIZ: From the moment Meghan's relationship with a member of the royal family became public, her race became the subject of constant tabloid fodder and discontent. During the couple's engagement, the queen's cousin's wife apologized after wearing a controversial broach many considered racist when she met Meghan for the first time.

[23:20:00]

The couple's multicultural royal wedding offered hopes of societal change, but soon after the racist backlash continued. Meghan endured attacks for things as mundane as avocados while her white sister-in- law by comparison was praised.

When Meghan became pregnant with her first child, a wave of racist online abuse followed from social media trolls. After her son was born, one television presenter was fired for liking him to a picture of a chimpanzee. Through the barrage of racist attacks against his wife, Harry said he came to terms with his role in historically white institutions.

PRINCE HARRY: My upbringing in the system of which I was brought up and the more that I have been exposed to, I wasn't aware of it, to start with. Sad is to say, it takes living in her shoes.

ABDELAZIZ: There's only one person in the world who knows what it means to be a British royal of color, Meghan. MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: Growing up as a woman of color is

little girl of color, I know how important representation is. I know how you want to see someone who looks like you in certain positions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And CNN's Salma Abdul Aziz joins us now. Hello, Salma. So, what was the response -- what is the response then to the palace's statement? What's that been like from the public?

ABDELAZIZ (on camera): Hello, Don, in some ways it is finally a relief to see a statement. Many people had been waiting for them to break the silence. This is coming directly from the queen, so that is significant and it seems to show a sense of understanding that there's something there that needs to be discussed.

But for those who want to criticize the statement, for those who might see the view of Meghan and Prince Harry, they will tell you this is not a familial matter, Don. This is an institution. There is a reason why Prince Harry and Meghan did not name any specific individuals. They talked about a system, about an institution, about a firm, about the day-to-day life of the lived experience of Meghan Markle as the first royal of color.

And so you have to ask, what does that mean for this larger institution that holds on to these traditions so dearly? How are they going to address these question of systemic racism entrenched within that institution and how do they begin to adopt to that, especially when again, it is an institution that prides itself on that colonial tradition.

So the question is, does the monarchy, by putting out the statement, is it say that it is starting a conversation that could lead to change, diversity, and adoption of a more inclusive mind set? Or will they remain steadfast, will they remain tied to the past, and how will they fit with the modern Britain if they do, Don?

LEMON: Salma, and thank you for your story. You put it all into context for us. I appreciate that.

So, joining me now, CNN royal historian Kate Williams. Kate, thank you so much for joining. This is a very carefully word at statement from the Queen claiming that they didn't know the full extent of what Meghan went through. But Meghan says that she spoke up and event went to Buckingham palace H.R. about it. This was not a secret.

KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: Yes, exactly, Don. Well, this is certainly at essential of it, 61 words and it was (inaudible) of course, is to draw a line in the conversation of a damaging national global conversation about the revelation (inaudible) particularly about the race, the concern raised about Archie's skin tone that you were just discussing there with Salma.

And also Meghan's revelation that she had this severe mental health crisis. She was really distressed particularly about the racist coverage of her. She went to the palace H.R., towards to get to a hospital and she was told, no, it will make the institution look bad. And this statement really I think is a significant for what is not said. There's a lot not said, and that I think is quite ironic, isn't it?

Because, the couple said that they either -- they couldn't speak in (inaudible) ways. Were you silent or were you silenced? And it was the latter. And Meghan couldn't speak out about her mental health, about how she was suffering from this barrage and racist abused that she was getting.

And this was not really being dealt with. The institution was told, the institution was begged for help. It wasn't good into her. And you know, in the 1990s, Diana, adding (inaudible) desperate. She was isolated. She, too, had a mental health crisis. No one helped her. And the question we're asking now is that, if in 20 years time, one of the younger royals, the children of Will and Kate, Charlotte, or George, or Louis wishes to marry a person of color, is this going to happen all over again?

The racist abuse, the isolation, and indeed the lack of recognition, just as you and Salma were saying about systemic racism in institutions. Again, I don't know if at the moment it's going to be sorted out.

LEMON: Yes, and as I said, you mentioned the statement, I said it was masterful earlier, because it addressed the problem without really addressing the problem.

[23:25:04]

It acknowledged that it was aware that, you know, that they're aware of the problem, but it didn't really address it. Thank you, Kate. I appreciate it and we'll see you soon. Thanks so much.

So, I wrote something that I hope can help a lot of people especially with these issues. It's my new book. It's called, This is the fire, what I say to my friends about racism. It is coming out next week. So you can preorder it now. I hope you will check it out.

So, we've got a lot more on the royal family fallout, and which famous host predicted trouble ahead before the wedding? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

LEMON: The statement by Queen Elizabeth acknowledges Harry and Meghan's allegations about racism, but the statement is short and very carefully worded.

Joining me now to discuss is TV presenter Trisha Goddard. Trisha, good to see you again. Thank you so much for joining us once again. So, what do you think about the Buckingham Palace breaking their silence now? They aren't denying what Prince Harry and what Meghan alleged. They seem to chalk it up to a difference in interpretation on how things went down.

TRISHA GODDARD, TV PRESENTER: I'll tell you what's very scary. I did an interview first thing this morning, and I was asked what the queen -- you know, how the royal family should deal with this. And I actually said this whole thing is about pain. It's about a couple who have been literally screaming out for help from the word go and haven't had any help.

And I said the first thing you need to do is you need to bite your tongue, whether you think they're right, wrong or whatever, and say I hear you, I feel your pain, and we might remember things differently but let's sit down and talk. And I'm not saying I advised the queen, but we were actually gobsmacked, as we say in England, when that came out.

This is pretty quick for the queen. I know in America and especially in this day of digital and, you know, online responses, you might think it's a long time. This is actually really quick for the royal family. I actually think they've done the right thing by keeping -- you know if I was to advise them in damage control -- in keeping the message short.

And I think it's very powerful that it comes from the queen because as you might remember in the interview, Harry said that he's always had a very close relationship with the queen and it sounds like he's been communicating with her all the way through. So I think that's really powerful.

So, you know, but it's -- here's the thing, one of the things. Let me just say that I have really noticed talking about this issue here in the states, in the U.K., and I've done some Australian television, I cannot use -- I don't use the term systemic racism in Britain because it goes over 90 percent of the people's heads.

In England, racism is someone coming up to you in the street calling you the "N" word and punching you to the floor. And I have so often had -- I have been lectured by white people about what racism is.

LEMON: They don't understand that a system that is the monarchy that's based on whiteness and bloodlines that that is part of a systemic racist system?

GODDARD: You wouldn't -- you would not get that far --

LEMON: OK. But let me ask you the other thing, because I know when you say you're doing television, you're also doing television over -- as well across the pond, and you said you're doing Australia, do you think they're paying attention to American television? Do you think that they are watching CNN in a sense and trying to understand how it's being perceived in the United States?

GODDARD: They think -- and this is a big generalization. In my mind, the majority of Brits mistake Hollywood for America --

LEMON: Wow.

GODDARD: -- frequently saying it's like -- Oh, yeah. And so this is -- you know Oprah's too touchy and feely and they're over the top. I would say that the conversation about racism is more overt and more direct here in America than in England. I use very different language when I'm talking directly to a British broadcaster.

LEMON: Well, maybe they think Oprah's too touchy feely, but certainly this interview, Oprah's interview has caused them --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON (on camera): -- to have to come out with a statement and caused him great pain in some way. Trisha, I want to play the speaking of the United States and our -- I guess television system, if you want to call it entertainment or not. I want to play something.

This is from John Oliver talking about Meghan Markle. This was ahead of the wedding in 2018 that has since gone viral after the Oprah interview. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN OLIVER, HBO HOST: I would not blame her if she pulled out of this at the last minute.

(LAUGHTER)

OLIVER: I don't -- I don't think you need to have just seen the pilot episode of "The Crown "to get a basic sense of she might be marrying into a family that could cause her some emotional complications.

(LAUGHTER)

STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS HOST: But this generation seems like nice people, right? They're all nice now, right?

OLIVER: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

OLIVER: I mean they are -- they're an emotionally stunted group of fundamentally flawed people doing a very silly pseudo job. That's what she's marrying into.

(LAUGHTER)

OLIVER: So I hope she likes it. It's going to be weird for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I -- I love John Oliver. Listen, what do you think of that given what has unfolded, because he said this at the time that a lot of people, a lot of Americans were really, including myself, were very optimistic about how the marriage could maybe help modernize the monarchy a little bit?

GODDARD: They definitely had the opportunity.

[23:34:59]

GODDARD: If you remember, when Meghan toured Australia and, you know, all those countries and what she did for the Grenfell disaster, you know, when -- the block of flats that burned down, she was an absolutely ideal way of shoring up, if that's what the royals wanted to do, shoring up the commonwealth.

And they kind of lost that. They really did lose that. And I think it is a case of -- and it's -- in general with a lot of British people, they do it without even seeming to realize. And it's so embedded.

Let me just put it this way. You have to remember, the slave trade in America was on your doorstep. Everybody knows about or should know about redlining, about all the terrible things happened. It's embedded. It happened on your soil.

Britain on the other hand, they went to other countries and did it, so they didn't kind to get their hands dirty. So Brits weren't brought up seeing all of those terrible things. So they have nothing to deny because nothing happened on their soil.

And so I find it very, very different, the approach to racism, where Americans, it's out there. They either say get over it, we don't care or we're going to go ultra right-wing and say you should stay in your place or they recognize they want to change it.

In England, they say we don't have a race problem. And it's there like a layered cake --

(LAUGHTER)

GODDARD: -- embedded so deeply. Unless they've beaten somebody over the head with a bat, you know --

LEMON: I get it.

GODDARD: -- growing up and touching someone's hair as they do. You know, I have had my hair, my natural hair when it's out touched and someone comparing it to pubic hair. Now, that happens all the time. People say we're just curious, you know. And why are you getting upset with it? You know, and -- it's embedded. It's very different.

LEMON: Well, this has been an interesting conversation, Trisha.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: How vivid.

GODDARD: I tell you, every Brit -- every Brit of color who's gone through that, I'm telling you. I have been inundated (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE).

GODDARD: Everybody is coming out with that same story, and it's like, oh, get over it.

LEMON: That's a first for me. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon, Trisha Goddard.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: So, Trump has got a new grift, and it could be at the expense of the Republican Party. Plus, why are these two Biden nominees facing so much pushback from Republicans?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The former president is out of office, but it doesn't seem like he is giving up the grift. The Republican National Committee is ignoring Trump's cease and desist letter after his demand they stop using his name and likeness in fundraising efforts.

Instead, the twice impeached former president has his own ideas about where supporters should send their money. You guessed it, he is telling them to donate to his own Save America PAC, writing, and I quote here, "No more money for RINOS." Republicans in name only.

"They do nothing but hurt the Republican Party and our great voting base -- they will never lead us to greatness," adding in another statement -- quote -- "So much money is being raised and completely wasted by people that do not have the GOP's best interests in mind."

Joining me now to discuss is Tim O'Brien, the senior columnist for Bloomberg Opinion and the author of "Trump Nation." Tim, it's always a pleasure to see -- wow, that picture on the cover is --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: -- looks like a --

TIM O'BRIEN, SENIOR COLUMNIST, BLOOMBERG OPINION: You know, there's a story on that.

LEMON: It's like a Trump Ken doll. Go on.

O'BRIEN: He wanted -- he wanted to see the cover art of the book before the book was published. You know, I spent a lot of time with him on that book. I said, sure, we'll make sure you see the cover art. And although he ended up hating the book, he sued me for it. He called me up in The New York Times. He called me at work. And he said I love this cover.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: It makes me look like superman.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: I look like some kind of a superman. He wanted the original and everything. True story.

LEMON: He sued you, but he loved the cover.

O'BRIEN: Yeah.

LEMON: Tim, listen, he wants these donations flowing in to him and so the RNC and other GOP committees. He said that this is for the good of the party, the Republican Party. What are the odds here that this is going to be used for political purposes?

O'BRIEN: I think the odds are nil. I think there's ample evidence before us how he rolls around these things. I don't think Trump understood the world of PAC money and how he could turn that into another grift, another opportunity to monetize the relationship he has with his base and with voters until he started propagating the big lie around the election being rigged. And remember, he set up the Donald Trump defense fund right after Election Day.

[23:44:59]

O'BRIEN: And he claimed he needed funding from his supporters to pay all the massive legal costs he was going to encounter having to fight this illegally rigged election. In very short order, he raised $200 million, at least $200 million. About $14 million of that actually went to his legal defense.

And I think all the light bulbs went off in his head, in his children's head that, oh, this is actually something you can rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat. And I think he was going to move into his post-White House years doing, you know, large -- I think the only thing he was going to do on the road were large scale stadium events --

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

O'BRIEN: and then do direct mail fundraising. He was going to keep this going for as long as he can. Suddenly, he discovered, oh, the GOP is using my image and that's going to get in the way of the money pipeline, and I'm going to jump on that as quickly as I can.

LEMON: Yeah. Maybe the GOP should use the image from your book and he'll be happy and he won't mind.

Listen, does this go beyond money, Tim? How much of this is about holding the party's purse strings and making sure that they stay tied to him even after his 2020 loss and incitement of an insurrection?

O'BRIEN: I think it us that, too. It's always multiple things with him. I think it's his desire to exercise control over the party to -- he -- there's very few things that are on his mind as frequently as vengeance, and he has got a lot of revenge planned for members of the Republican Party who didn't support the insurrection he incited on January 6th, and of course Democrats.

But I think what he really wants to do is get into red districts and back candidates who are opposing candidates of people like Mitch McConnell are going to put up. And he knows that to be able to do that effectively, he's going to need money. If he can't get the money, as you noted, I think he's going throw as much sand in the machinery as he can.

LEMON: Yeah. Always a pleasure, Tim. Let's put the book back up --

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: -- for Tim's book just to get a look at it. There you go. "Trump Nation: The Art of being the Donald." Thanks. I will see you soon, Tim.

O'BRIEN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: False, misleading, and expensive. Two Biden nominees on the receiving end of particularly harsh attacks and critics say it's because they have one thing in common.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

LEMON (on camera): A month and a half into his presidency and Joe Biden is still trying to get nominees for key government positions confirmed by the Senate. Critics say hard-lined Republicans are being particularly aggressive in trying to block women of color. More tonight from senior political correspondent Abby Phillip.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The attorney general's office --

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two of President Joe Biden's picks for top Justice Departments posts, both women of color, are on the receiving end of some of the most expensive and intense attacks by conservatives of any of his nominees.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): She supports defunding the police, led a group that wants to reduce punishments on white supremacists, even terrorists.

PHILLIP (voice-over): In false and misleading multimillion-dollar ads like this, Vanita Gupta and Kristen Clarke, both seasoned civil rights attorneys, are being painted as radical choices.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Your record is one of an extreme partisan advocate. Your record is an ideologue.

PHILLIP (voice-over): In her confirmation hearing today for the position of associate attorney general, Gupta defended herself.

VANITA GUPTA, ASSOCIATE ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: As a lifelong civil rights lawyer, I have committed my career to ensuring that the promises made in the Constitution are kept, and that our federal laws are fairly and impartially applied. I do not support defunding the police.

PHILLIP (voice-over): Republicans have also accused civil rights lawyer Kristen Clarke, who has been tapped to lead the DOJ civil rights division, of reverse racism and anti-Semitism, even using her words against Biden's attorney general nominee, Merrick Garland.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I find it particularly troubling that during the hearing and in response to these questions -- to questions, he advocated for both Vanita Gupta and Kristen Clarke, both of whom he barely knows.

PHILLIP (voice-over): Their supporters see a pattern.

SHERRILYN IFILL, PRESIDENT, NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: There has almost been a barrier that has been erected by the right that you have to go through a gauntlet if you have devoted your life to civil rights legal practice.

PHILLIP (voice-over): For decades, Republicans have worked to stop the civil rights nominees of Democratic presidents using a similar playbook, conjuring fears about crime and accusation that will implement preferential treatment for racial minorities.

IFILL: They're almost fantastical and frankly, I heard about the ads, and when I saw the ad, it was so ridiculous, so preposterous, so -- every word so untrue with the exception of "and" and "the."

PHILLIP (voice-over): And 30 years ago, it worked. Similar attacks derailed President Clinton's nominee for the civil rights division position, also a Black woman.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Should we have proceeded with a confirmation battle that would give her more ample opportunity to clarify her views but would guarantee a bloody and divisive conflict over civil rights.

PHILLIP (voice-over): Gupta's nomination in particular has drawn support from unlikely quarters. Governor Quist, head of the conservative group Americans for Tax Reform, the Fraternal Order of Police, the National Sheriffs' Association, and nearly a dozen other police organizations have all put their support behind her.

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PHILLIP (voice-over): Gupta and Clarke are just two nominees of color who have faced difficult path to confirmation in a narrowly divided Senate, leading to accusations that they are being targeted because of their race or gender.

Senator Tom Cotton, a Republican, pushed back on that suggestion today.

SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Can you oppose the nomination of a woman or a racial minority on the merits without being racist or sexist?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yes.

PHILLIP (on camera): Whether it was President Clinton, President Obama or now President Biden, many of the nominees who are being blocked by Republicans all have one thing in common, many of them worked for the NAACP's legal defense fund, an organization that was founded by civil rights giant and former Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall.

And observers who look at the situation say these nominees are also being punished for being willing to speak candidly about race and the criminal justice system in the United States. Don?

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LEMON (on camera): Abby Phillip, thank you so much. And thank you, everyone, for watching. Our coverage continues.

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