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Don Lemon Tonight
Joe Biden Says Help is Here; Senator Ron Johnson Says He's Not Concerned with Trump Rioters; Republicans Passing Legislation to Change Voting Rules; Meghan Markle Complained Against Piers Morgan; Governor Cuomo Says He's Not Going to Resign; Racism and Its Effects in Society; Tucker Carlson Called Out by a U.S. Space Command Leader. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 12, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Jake, thank you very much.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us.
Boy, what a week. What a week especially for President Joe Biden. The kind of thing that he once called a big f-ing deal. Remember he whispered that into President Obama's ear when he got the healthcare bill through, Obamacare?
So, Joe Biden this week is celebrating his first big victory, a squeaker of a win in a Rose Garden event today and acknowledging there's a lot of work to be done to deliver on his monumental COVID relief bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to get this right. Details matter. Because we have to continue to build confidence in the American people that their government can function for them and deliver. So, there's a lot of work for all of us left to do. But I know we'll do it. To every American watching, help is here, and we will not stop working for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I know you're happy about it. I know you want the money because you have been telling me, whenever you see me, wherever you happen to see me, around town, and telling me on social media, you need the money. A lot of people do. Stimulus payments. Up to $1,400 a person. Start hitting Americans' bank accounts as soon as this weekend.
You can use the money, right? You can use the money. But the president and vice president, Kamala Harris, heading up a team to go out and sell the bill to the country over the next few weeks. While the president is showing leadership, what are we seeing from the GOP?
Let's talk about that. The party of Lincoln. Doesn't care about the rescue plan and what it will do for desperate Americans. What they're fighting for is taking away your voting rights. Trying to disenfranchise voters. Mainly people of color who voted for Joe Biden.
There are more than 250 bills nationwide to roll back voter access. And it's nothing but a blatant attempt by Republicans to claw their way back to power, all on a big lie, right, about an election that was stolen, because the election was not stolen. So, if you can't win fair and square, stop them from voting. That's the strategy.
What they care about is taking away your vote and defending that big lie that I told you about, even now, even after everything we saw on January 6th when Trump-supporting extremists, racists, stormed the seat of our government, incited by the then president.
I want you to listen to this very, very closely, OK? Put down whatever it is you're drinking or whatever you're doing and get everybody. Gather in front of the TV set. Because here is Senator Ron Johnson in a radio interview, and he is spewing blatant racism, claiming he wasn't afraid of the capitol rioters, because, well -- why don't you take a listen for yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I'm also criticized because I've made the comment that on January 6th, I never felt threatened. Because I didn't. And mainly because I knew that even though those thousands of people, they were -- marching on the capitol --
UNKNOWN: Yes.
JOHNSON: -- were trying to pressure people like me to vote the way they wanted me to vote, I knew those are people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement, would never do anything to break the law. So, I wasn't concerned.
Now, had the tables been turned, Joe, this will get me in trouble. Had the tables been turned and President Trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and Antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Did you hear him? He wasn't afraid of those people -- maybe because they're white? Not maybe. That's the reason. Because if they were black, he would be afraid of them. He said they support law enforcement. Even though they beat up officers. One officer died. One suffered a heart attack. They were beating them with blue lives matter flags.
Come on. Don't even try to twist and it say, well -- that's exactly what he said. He said it right out loud. He wasn't concerned about the rioters who stormed the capitol. The ones who were fighting police. Hunting for lawmakers. Putting up gallows outside chanting hang Mike Pence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CROWD: Hang Mike Pence, hang Mike Pence, hang Mike Pence, hang Mike
Pence!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He wasn't concerned about them. But he would have been if they had been Black Lives Matter or Antifa. And the thing is, he knows exactly what he is doing. Look. I know people, every night you're like, my gosh, this, another one, because this is happening, this happened.
[22:05:09]
It is frustrating to have to talk about these things every single night. But it's real. It happened. He said it. And I'm just playing the words back, OK? He knows what he's doing. And there's no denying it. You hear him say that he knows it will get him in trouble. But it's too exciting to keep to himself. He just has to say the quiet part out loud, just keep digging deeper, senator. Just dig. And then there's this ludicrous observation from Chris Wallace over at the Fox propaganda network.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: Talk about the president's speech last night, I thought, you know -- to myself -- you know, he could give a tip of the hat to Donald Trump, it was, after all, Operation Warp Speed --
SANDRA SMITH, HOST, FOX NEWS: It didn't happen.
WALLACE: -- which created these viruses in record time. And instead you heard some talk about denial and spreading the virus. And I thought, you know, he's being about as gracious to his predecessor as Donald Trump was to his predecessor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK, everyone. You know what? Here's what I never, as gracious as Donald Trump was to his predecessor -- so I never heard President Joe Biden question whether his predecessor was born in this country, did you? I never heard him try to spread a racist lie about his predecessor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want him to show his birth certificate.
(APPLAUSE)
UNKNOWN: Why?
TRUMP: There's something on that birth certificate --
(CROSSTALK) UNKNOWN: OK, why not, I guess.
TRUMP: -- that he doesn't like.
People have birth certificates. He doesn't have a birth certificate. Now he may have one, but there's something on that birth certificate, maybe religion, maybe it says he's a Muslim, I don't know.
And if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility -- I'm not saying it happened, I'm saying it's a real possibility.
A lot of people do not think it was an authentic certificate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Again, I am just the messenger. Or maybe the mirror-holder. OK? Because we could play more, but then we'd be here all night. And we've really got to call out the idea that President Biden somehow isn't trying hard enough to be bipartisan. The COVID relief bill is a huge, huge priority for the president and for the country. He made it clear that he is open to bringing the GOP on board, but they refused. Not a single Republican voted for the bill, not one.
And the fact is, the latest CNN poll shows a majority of Americans support the COVID relief bill, including a majority of Republicans who support larger tax credits for families. Stimulus checks, money to get their kids back in the classroom. What's wrong with that? That's what people need. They need all of that. It sounds like bipartisan support to me. Except for the people in Washington. Because they want to stay in power, and they want to divide you.
And then there's the issue that we have been talking about all week, and that is racism. OK? Issues that people of color deal with every day spotlighted in the wake of a blockbuster Harry and Meghan interview with Oprah, where they roil the royal family, saying that there was a conversation about how dark their unborn baby would be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: There's a conversation with you --
MEGHAN, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: With Harry.
WINFREY: -- about how dark your baby is going to be?
MEGHAN: Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, Meghan making a formal complaint to the U.K.'s communications regulator about what now ex-morning show host Piers Morgan said when he questioned whether she was telling the truth about having suicidal thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIERS MORGAN, FORMER CO-HOST, ITV NEWS: I don't believe a word she says, Meghan Markle.
SUSANNA REID, CO-HOST, ITV NEWS: Well that's a --
MORGAN: I wouldn't believe it if she read me a weather report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, they can make those formal questions in the U.K. Their laws are different. That would not happen here because our first amendment is very robust. The U.K. has different standards. Their laws.
So, in the middle of the uproar, OK? Sharon Osbourne, who is a friend of Piers Morgan, apologizing today for taking his side on the talk. The Talk show on CBS. Like The View on ABC. OK?
[22:10:05]
So, taking his side on the talk, and then getting defensive about racism. Here's what she said on the show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON OSBOURNE, HOST, CBS: Educate me. Tell me. When you have heard him say racist things. Educate me, tell me.
SHERYL UNDERWOOD, COMEDIAN: It is not the exact words of racism, it's the implication and the reaction to it. To not want to address that because she is a black woman and to try to dismiss it or to make it seem less than what it is, that's what makes it racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, you've got to see the whole exchange, because Sharon Osbourne loses it. And I just wanted to go, snap out of it! It's like a spell where it became about her rather than the actual issue. And that is what privilege is. You're more offended about the possibility of your ego or your fragility or someone calling you racist or someone may think that you're racist, than the actual act itself. And then it becomes all about your grievance. Rather than the real issue.
Snap out of it, Sharon Osbourne. Tweeting today, by the way, to anyone of color that I offended and/or to anyone that feels confused or let down by what I said, I am truly sorry. I panicked, felt blind-sided, I got defensive, and I allowed my fear and horror of being accused -- what I just said -- being accused of being racist take over.
I'm glad that she apologized. And if it is sincere, then she works for change, then we should all believe it and see how she works to do it. People should not be canceled for making a mistake. But they have to realize what that mistake is and try to make restitution, OK?
Back the prompter up, because I want to read that. Thank you very much. She says, there are very few things that hurt my heart more than racism, so to feel associated with that spun me fast. Right.
So, I just want to make sure I got her apology in there, because I want to be fair to her. But she should realize what she did. She made it all about her instead of the actual issue. That's a problem. A lot of people do that. You have to do the work. It's not easy.
OK, so she apologized for her reaction, but it sounded like she was more worried about being called a racist herself than she was about what she was saying. It's not OK to make it about you. When black people are the ones experiencing racism every single day. It's not OK to demand that black people explain racism to you.
The whole thing is just such a good example, all of this, of how we get defensive about race in that we don't want to talk about it. Here's a thing. These are conversations that we need to have, whether you think they're hard or they're easy. I think they're easy, you may think they're hard.
I would rather someone talk to me honestly, even if they say something wrong or that could be corrected. How else are we going to learn? We've got to talk about what's right out there in the open, and that's racism. Inherent bias. Racial blind spots if you want to call it. All of it.
As I've said, and I hope you read it, this is what I write about in my book. These are the lessons of my book. It's called "This is The Fire." What I say to my friends about racism. OK? But it's not just a conversation for black people. And it has nothing to do with whether you're royal or whether you're a celebrity or whether you're wealthy or whether you're poor or whatever. It has nothing to do with that.
Like I said, racism is racism, whether you live in a palace or a shack. It's a conversation that we all have got to have it. OK? So, stay tuned. We're going to talk about all of these things.
Meantime, I want to get to the White House. CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins us this evening. Kaitlan, good evening to you. Thanks for joining.
The White House has been completely focused on COVID relief, but they can't ignore the massive fight looming over voter suppression bills across this country. How is the president going to handle this?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. They can't ignore it and I think that they are fully aware of that and aware of how it could affect what's going to happen in the midterms in 2022. And going forward. And of course, this has also been hanging over President Biden ever since he took office, given the months-long assault that we saw former President Trump take on election results and how that went on where he tried to repeatedly overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.
[22:14:58]
And so, Don, you're right, this has been a really big question for the White House, which is what specifically is President Biden going to do about this? And you saw a few days ago he did sign that executive order. It was talking about strengthening -- people being able to vote, basically opening it up, making it easier, and opening access for people to actually vote.
But it was pretty limited in scope. And most of what it had to do with was directing federal agencies to study and review aspects of this matter, but it wasn't actually taking concrete steps. I think that's what you've heard from the questions of some people about what this is going to look like.
Because the White House has said President Biden does support H.R.-1, that's that bill, that voting rights bill, that passed the House. But it does face an incredibly tough challenge in the Senate. It's an evenly divided Senate. You can see the vice president break that tie.
But the idea that they're going to get 10 Republicans on board with what they're doing moving forward does seem like a pretty steep challenge for the White House and for Democrats. And I think they're aware of that.
And so that has been a big question that's facing the White House and what President Biden is going to do, how he'll approach that, will it change his opinion on the filibuster? So far, they've said no. That's that procedural rule that requires 10 Republicans to be on board.
And so, I do think that's going to be a critical question facing the White House, especially as they move toward 2022 and whether or not Republicans are going to be successful with these efforts to restrict voting. And so how this ends up, it still remains to be seen.
But the White House has said, yes, President Biden is interested in this. He does care about this. The question is, what can he actually do to stop or change or affect what you're seeing these Republican efforts look like?
LEMON: Kaitlan Collins, where these days she's permanently posted outside the White House where she is now, thank you.
COLLINS: Always.
LEMON: Thank you, yes. Thank you, Kaitlan. I'll see you later.
So, passing the COVID relief bill was just the beginning. Now the president has to deliver.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: It's really critical to demonstrate not Democrat/Republican. It's critical to demonstrate that government can function, can function and deliver prosperity, security, and opportunity for the people in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And while he is focused on making government work, the GOP is spreading fear and racist tropes. One Republican says that he would have really worried if the deadly domestic terrorists on January 6th weren't Trump supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Joe, this will get me in trouble. Had the tables been turned and President Trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and Antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Biden hailing the $1.9 COVID relief law at the Rose Garden today telling Americans, help is here. And tonight, the Treasury Department confirming the first batch of stimulus payments will start going out to Americans in need this weekend.
So, I want to bring in CNN's political analysts Ron Brownstein, and Mark McKinnon, the former adviser to President George W. Bush the late Senator John McCain. He is the executive producer of The Circus on Showtime.
I'm so happy to see you two. You guys make me smile.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Don.
LEMON: You put me in a good mood. I love having you on. Good evening. Let's see.
Ron, where do we start? We've got to start with the president celebrating his victory in the Rose Garden. He obviously wants to seize on this moment.
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
LEMON: But he also needs to implement a huge government plan and get it right, that's the hard part.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I think -- I think Joe Biden has made it clear that the centerpiece of his presidency is going to be trying to get this virus under control and the economy and society back to normal. That is going to be his personal focus what he has identified with.
And as you say, they've achieved this legislative victory, is, you know, astounding and enormous. I mean, this may be the biggest single infusion of government aid directly to working -- middle-class and working-class families that's perhaps been passed since social security.
I mean, I talked to social policy experts in the last few days who have said that. But they continue to face the operational challenges you point out of making, you know, getting the vaccine out, getting shots into arms, dollars into people's pockets.
Meanwhile, while focused on that, the logjam on Capitol Hill as the House passes legislation critical to the Democratic base and it kind of goes to the Senate to an uncertain future, starting with voting rights, but also including gun control, immigration reform coming next week, LGBTQ equality -- all of those issues are going to pile up, Don.
And at some point this fall, if the virus is under control, the issue is going to be, can Democrats find the will to break the Republican logjam against all of these priorities?
LEMON: Right on. Mark, Republicans are whining that there was no bipartisanship. But Americans across the spectrum, they like this bill. Has President Biden succeeded in shifting the way people see partisanship, away from Congress and toward public opinion?
MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's been a good strategy, I mean, it's one of necessity, that the Biden administration is saying, listen, it is bipartisan out in the country. Up to 60 percent of the Republicans support the COVID relief bill, support the job that Biden is doing, support what he's doing on COVID generally.
So, I mean, to sort of suggest that the lack of bipartisanship is really just in Washington is true and a pretty effective strategy. Don, the thing that really brings this home to me is that in Washington, for example, the Washington journalism review did a study, they do it every couple of years, of the number of crossovers between progressive Republicans and conservative Democrats.
Twenty years ago, there were 224 members that overlapped. In the last study that they did, there were four. So that just suggest what -- that's why there's going to be a logjam of all this other legislation because there's nobody left in the middle. But they are out in the country.
LEMON: Wow. Wow. But listen, you know -- I said this, again, I don't know, last night or the night before to Matthew Dowd that there are -- that the president seems to be ignoring, Mark, the folks in Washington. He's trying to work with them, but he's going to get his agenda across. He's not falling into the trap of going tit for tat with them about, you know, some catchy, silly slogan that they're saying or what have you.
[22:25:03]
He's just focused on the agenda and on what the American people want, and he's moving forward. If the economy comes roaring back, if we're, you know, getting past COVID by the summer or the fall, what are Republicans going to do? How are they going to look? What happens with them?
MCKINNON: Well, you know, I think what they're going to do is they're going to shift their messaging to the border, which they're already doing, they're talking about Democrats are for opening border and closing schools. So, they're going to focus on that, although I think the school thing is going to work itself out.
So, you know, Republicans are going to get back to the nativist American messaging about the immigration problem on the border, which is a problem. LEMON: Right.
MCKINNON: I mean, it's a problem if you don't want more immigrants, and Republicans don't.
LEMON: Yes. But it's also a problem, too, because you've got the house people and you've got to take care of them or whatever. And those are issues that we all -- that all those issues need to be addressed.
So, Ron, President Biden and the Vice President Harris, they're hitting the road to sell this bill.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: What is the goal here? How much of this is about taking credit and setting the stage for the next big thing?
BROWNSTEIN: Can I just point out real quick --
LEMON: Sure.
BROWNSTEIN: -- that I met Mark McKinnon and Matthew Dowd when they were working for Ann Richards in 1990, and Matt Dowd was still -- he was still doing electoral targeting with a pencil, a sharpened pencil in a legal -- in a ledger book. So that's how long ago, that's how long ago it was.
Look, I mean, I think, you know, there's a widespread view in the Democratic Party that in 2009, Barack Obama didn't go big enough in the stimulus and in search for a few Republican votes, had to cut it substantially, and they've avoided -- they've avoided replicating that decision.
And there's a view that he did not sell it enough after. And now they are clearly avoiding that decision. You know, there is a belief among many Republicans that no one is going to remember this bill by the fall of 2022. And I suppose it's possible they won't remember a lot of the details. But the reality is this bill is going to be tied to the return of normalcy. And that is the potential, the real potential political impact here, in terms of this being -- it's part of the package --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But isn't that the sign, though?
BROWNSTEIN: -- that you've got your life back.
LEMON: Ron, Ron, Ron, hold on. Isn't that a good sign, if people don't remember it by the fall? Do you understand what I'm saying?
BROWNSTEIN: Right, yes, right.
LEMON: Because it means that life has returned to normal.
BROWNSTEIN: Exactly. And the ability is -- like unlike a bill that comes and goes, this can be seen as part of this dynamic in which you got your life back under this president. And by the way, there is going to be a big fight next year on making this child tax credit permanent.
I mean, this is an enormous expansion of kind of the social safety net, the creation of a child allowance that has tangible benefits, not only for low-income families, not only for black and brown families, but for a lot of middle class, working class, white working class families who are the core of the Republican base.
And I think Democrats are going to be very aggressive next year in saying, we have delivered in a material way, while Republicans are kind of feeding you cultural resentment about Dr. Seuss and the border and cancel culture. I think that's going to be a really interesting test, whether they can cut into those super-Republican majorities among those voters by delivering on their material needs.
LEMON: Mr. Showtime executive producer, I think we all need to, instead of just a segment on this show, we need a show together, can you work on that, please?
MCKINNON: Absolutely.
LEMON: It's the circus --
MCKINNON: We'll look at it. Kick it.
LEMON: Kick it. Thank you, guys, have a great weekend.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
LEMON: I'll talk to you soon. be safe.
Governor Cuomo says that he won't resign, but that was before two of the most powerful Democrats in his state said that he should.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Some of the most powerful Democrats in the country adding their names to the list calling for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo to resign over multiple allegations. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand saying that Governor Cuomo has lost the confidence of New Yorkers.
Sixteen of the 19 New York Congressional Democrats in the House all urging the governor to step down. You see them there on your screen. Now another woman accusing him of sexual harassment is speaking out. Former Albany reporter Jessica Bakeman alleging in New York magazine he would often touch her without her consent, she describes an incident at a 2014 holiday party writing this.
He put his other arm around my back, his hand on my waist, and held me firmly in place and said, I'm sorry, am I making you uncomfortable? I thought you were going steady. I stood there in stunned silence, shocked and humiliated. But, of course, that was the point. Governor Cuomo today again denying he harassed anyone, saying he will not resign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): I did not do what has been alleged. Period. Look, it's very simple. I never harassed anyone, I never abused anyone, I never assaulted anyone. And I never would, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, joining me now, CNN political commentator Errol Louis, and CNN legal analyst and former New Jersey attorney general Anne Milgram.
Thank you very much both of you for joining us. Good evening.
Errol, the governor, Governor Cuomo says he's not going anywhere but he's facing an enormous amount of pressure to resign, now from Senators Gillibrand and Schumer. Is this reaching critical mass right now?
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. On the other hand, we don't know what critical mass really means. We're about to see potentially a real experiment, a kind of political science experiment, in how far you can go and actually governing if you don't have any partners at the state, federal, or local level.
[22:35:05]
Because make no mistake about it, Don, it's really across the board. The mayor of New York City called for him to resign today, our U.S. senators, just as you allude to, a large chunk including much of the leadership of the state legislature saying the same thing. The state controller came out today.
Can the governor do his job without cooperation from these people? We're about to find out. I think he may have more ability to do so than some of us might think. The governor of New York is a very powerful figure, any governor. And can do quite a lot, even if other people don't want to talk to him, even if there's not a lot of coordination. The people who might be hurt of course are the 20 million residents of the state.
LEMON: Do you think the governor's going to try to ride this out no matter how bad it gets? Because what I -- what I -- this is what I'm hearing, Errol, is that people are saying he shouldn't resign but he should say he's not running again.
LOUIS: That's his last card, frankly. You know? I mean, if this is a game of political chess, he's losing pieces by the day. That might be his last move, that might be his last piece that he can play to sort of say -- but the momentum may have gone too far, frankly, at this point. When folks say he cannot govern, in a way they're saying, you're going to have to do this without us returning your phone calls, without us cooperating in any way. There will be a much smaller version of being the New York governor
that you'll be confined to. And if that's what you choose to do for the next year and a half, that's on you. But there is an election next year. The governor has said that he's going to run for re-election. He hasn't said anything to the contrary. But he's running out of bargaining chips.
And again, that's that last chip. Perhaps if he says, I'm going to go quietly, I'm not going to run for re-election, which frankly the polls say most New Yorkers are OK with that idea right now, he may get something in return.
LEMON: Yes.
LOUIS: But that's -- you know, it's not something he's even alluded to at this point.
LEMON: Yes. Anne, I want to read more. This is from Jessica Bakeman at New York magazine. She said, he wanted me to know that I was powerless, that I was small and weak, that I did not deserve what relative power I had, a platform to hold him accountable for his words and actions. He wanted me to know that he could take my dignity away at any moment with any inappropriate comment or a hand on my waist. As a lawyer, what do you make of her allegations?
ANNE MILGRAM, FORMER NEW JERSEY ATTORNEY GENERAL: One of the things -- and Don, you know, I've handled a lot of investigations, internal investigations, into sexual harassment, including a significant investigation into the Dallas Mavericks basketball team that spanned 20 years of sexual harassment, potential sexual harassment conduct.
And so when I listen to something like that, that feels to me like really -- it gets to the heart of what -- of why this is wrong and why sexual harassment is just so insidious in offices and workplaces. Because it is about power. It is about control. And ultimately, it's about diminishing the ability of a woman to go to work and to be able to work and be treated like everyone else, and to be judged purely on the merits.
And so, I think -- I think that's a really important statement saying, look, it might not seem like a lot, a hand on the shoulder, a hand on the lower back, but all of this when you put it together was meant to exert power and control over me and to embarrass me.
And I think when you start to look at all six of the women who have come forward with allegations, you really do see that sort of similar line going through them. Again, there's an investigation taking place. These are allegations at this point. But it is really significant to me.
LEMON: Just a quick question for you, Anne. If there is -- he's facing investigations, including possible impeachment. Can these women possibly end up testifying? We could end up hearing from them?
MILGRAM: Yes, so I think one of the fascinating things about the assembly saying that they're going to open up these impeachment hearings is that that would be public. And so, it's different. When you do an internal investigation like the attorney general Letitia James is doing, and he's hired outside lawyers to do, that investigation will be done in private with a public report at the end. So, we might not see a report for two or three months.
But if you think about the assembly moving forward with an impeachment investigation, we could see the assembly holding hearings with those women coming forward to testify.
LEMON: Wow.
MILGRAM: And remember, Don, that's only the women we know about, now part of the investigation would be to find out, was there anyone else?
LEMON: Anne, Errol, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
From a Republican senator's racist comments tonight to Meghan and Harry's allegations of racism within the royal family, very public conversations about race making their way into everyone's living rooms. Stay with us.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, you want to know how to have a conversation about race? You're about to experience it right now. OK? Harry and Meghan's bombshell allegations of racism in the royal family rocking the U.K. but forcing a long overdue reckoning with systemic racism.
Here in the U.S. we have made strides but racism is still a problem people of color face every single day. We need to talk about it. That's what my new book is about, "This is The Fire." It's all about that.
But listening to people like Senator Ron Johnson makes me realize that we really have a long way to go.
Joining me now, CNN political commentator Mitch Landrieu, the former mayor of New Orleans from my home state. So, we're about to have two Louisiana boys, I can say that, natives, talk about this thing. Thank you for doing this, OK? Let's show people how to do this, right? From the deep south where we know what's up. Ron Johnson on the insurrection. Listen to this.
MAYOR MITCH LANDRIEU, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I'm also criticized because I've made the comment that on January 6th, I never felt threatened. Because I didn't. And mainly because I knew that even though those thousands of people, they were -- marching on the capitol --
[22:45:03]
UNKNOWN: Yes.
JOHNSON: -- were trying to pressure people like me to vote the way they wanted me to vote, I knew those are people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement, would never do anything to break the law. So, I wasn't concerned.
Now, had the tables been turned, Joe, this will get me in trouble. Had the tables been turned and President Trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and Antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Does he understand? Does he --
LANDRIEU: I mean, look. He almost -- if he wasn't so banal, you'd have to feel bad. That's a lost ball in high weeds right there. Now think about what he just said to you. He just said that a bunch of white guys that stormed the capitol, that were beating police officers with the American flag, were patriots. And love their country.
And then he said, Black people, who are peacefully protesting, scare the hell out of him. That's a scared white man. And that's a guy that's just really confused. You know, look. Listen. White people in America, many white people, think that racism is an overt, hostile act between individuals when they're judging them on race. And that is true.
And somehow don't really understand or are not willing to look a little bit further into the issue of systemic racism. How you create systems that treat similarly situated people differently because of the color of their skin.
And of course, if you have any African-American friends at all, or if you ever listen to Black people who are, by the way, exhausted that white people can't get this and continue to ask Black people to help them to understand it, because white people won't do the work -- then you begin to understand the pain and the agony of them having to wear their blackness every day.
And white people, not all but many white people, don't want to understand it. We have a guy like Ron Johnson who occupies a position of one of the 100 most powerful people in the world expelling that blather from his mouth? It makes it really, really difficult in the country to have a thoughtful discussion about it. As painful as it is for all of us.
LEMON: OK, so would it -- I think you answered some of this. If you're a white person in this country and you want to have a conversation and you don't know how, and you want to change and you don't know how?
LANDRIEU: Well, there are a lot of people that do, by the way. I do think that the cancel culture is a little rough. You have to give people a way to get to you. I think white people also have to understand that African-American people have expressed many times the dismay in having to educate their white friends. There's a huge amount of information now, especially in the last year,
since George Floyd -- since George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery, and Breonna Taylor. People should be curious about this. There's a reason why the African-American community is so upset, justifiably. And white people who care about this ought to really try to do everything they can within their power to think about this, to try to understand it, to try, as Wynton Marsalis encourage me to do, to put yourself in somebody's shoes, and to try to understand.
Because there's a reason why they are upset, and there's good reason for it. And racism continues to be in this country our Achilles heel. And if we ever could get past it by going through it and understanding each other, we'll have a much better chance to be the America that we all say that we want to be.
LEMON: OK. So, here's the thing. So, what I say in my book, I said that -- you just said you have to be curious, right, that white people have to be curious. And instead of being judgmental. So -- and I say in my book that, get a friend that doesn't look like you. Right? And then, but I hear people say, that's so hard, that's so hard.
LANDRIEU: It's not.
LEMON: It's not hard.
LANDRIEU: Well, let me say this.
LEMON: Is it hard?
LANDRIEU: You see a black guy -- no. Well, it depends on where you live. There are lots of people, Don, in America, white people that don't live anywhere where Black people live. I guess in that instance it's hard. But like if you live where I live in New Orleans, you know, you'd have to walk across the street from somebody intentionally not to walk by somebody that doesn't look like you, because we're a very diverse place.
But be that as it may, even if you don't live in proximity day to day with it, given the availability of information that's out there, you have to start asking yourself, well, look, if people are so upset, why are they upset? If they say that I don't understand things, what is it that I don't understand?
If they say that I didn't learn my history right and they tell me that the G.I. bill really treated people differently, or redlining occurred, or that maybe that what happened at the Colfax riots is different from what I learned, wouldn't you be curious to know whether or not your classes actually gave you the kind of tools you needed to survive in a country that in 2040 is going to be majority minority? Wouldn't you want to think about that?
And I think that in this country, we say that diversity is our strength. We say that we come to the table of democracy as equals. But I think sometimes patriots -- Jimmy Baldwin told us this, as Eddie Glaude, Jr. reminded us -- that being a patriot is questioning your country exactly because you love her. Because you want to hold her to the highest standard. Because you really believe in the sense, that out of many, that we are one.
And if it's true and you look at what's happened to George Floyd and Derek Chauvin and this awful thing that we're going through right now, when do you think enough is enough?
[22:50:01]
And so, I think that -- I think that Black people want white people to engage and to say, I'm here. And I'm present and I want to understand, because I love you too. I think that you're equal to me, and I want to lift you up and not put you down.
LEMON: Yes. Look, I think anywhere in the country right now no matter where you live, you have to walk on the other side of the street to not have interaction with a Hispanic or a Latino person or Black person --
(CROSSTALK)
LANDRIEU: I think that's true.
LEMON: -- or an Asian person or someone else who does not look like you. I think there's an -- there's always someone in the line or the school line or on your kids' --
LANDRIEU: that kept -- somebody serving you foods, somebody coaching your kids, somebody working on your house --
LEMON: Hey.
LANDRIEU: -- somebody cutting your grass. I mean, you got --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Yes. Would you like to come on this weekend for a barbecue? Would you like to --
LANDRIEU: Yes. You say, hey, mister, you have -- can I talk to you for a minute?
LEMON: Yes.
LANDRIEU: People will talk to you.
LEMON: Yes.
LANDRIEU: Reach out, open your heart up, open your hand up. You're going to learn something. You're going to meet a new friend.
LEMON: Yes.
LANDRIEU: And let me say this. By 2040, this country is going to be a majority, minority.
LEMON: Yes. LANDRIEU: And so, you can ignore that fact, or you can say I have something to learn from that and something to enjoy from it, and I'm going to be better because of it. And Don, you're from the south and I'm from the south and I happen to think that if we would ever get it right, we could just blow the roof off of the potential in this country.
LEMON: Right.
LANDRIEU: And if we don't, we're going to continue to be alienated where there is no peace. It's going to be hard, you know, for us to get together otherwise. And I just think we're missing a wonderful opportunity.
LEMON: I do.
LANDRIEU: We need to lean -- we ought to lean into this, rather than lean away from it.
LEMON: Wow. Wow. Sounds like you've been listening to me, or I've been listening to you. We're meeting friends and --
(CROSSTALK)
LANDRIEU: I love you, brother. I can't wait to reach your point.
LEMON: I love you as well.
LANDRIEU: But I bet you, I know what's in it.
LEMON: You know it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. I appreciate it. I love you too. I'll talk to you soon.
LANDRIEU: Who that (Ph), babe.
LEMON: Who that.
LANDRIEU: See you.
LEMON: My new book, "This is The Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism." coming out -- it comes out next week, the 16th. So, I hope you can check it out.
Next, another smackdown for Tucker Carlson after his misogynistic military comments. This time from a top leader of space command.
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Take this. A top official in the U.S. military has something to say about Tucker Carlson's sexist claims about women in the armed forces. Sergeant Scott H. Stalker, the senior enlisted leader at the U.S. Space Command reminding everyone of Carlson's credibility.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SCOTT STALKER, COMMAND SENIOR ENLISTED LEADER, U.S. SPACE COMMAND: I
don't have cable news at home. I don't have it here in the office. and I don't watch a lot of drama TV. I understand some comments were made yesterday, and I watched the clip that Mr. Carlson produced as he referred to pregnant women in the military. I'll remind everyone that his opinion, which he has a right to, is based off of actually zero days of service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He was responding to Tucker Carlson saying a couple of nights ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: So, we've got new hairstyles and maternity flight suits. Pregnant women are going to fight our wars. It's a mockery of the U.S. military. While China's military becomes more masculine as it's assembled the world's largest navy, our military needs to become, as Joe Biden says, more feminine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: When we saw his initial comments, we thought that you should see them. And then when he posted an update earlier tonight, we just knew you had to see that, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STALKER: What I won't do is engage in a personal attack with Mr. Carlson or anybody. I don't believe in doing that. I think that my comments stand on themselves. I was making a non-political statement about my service members and teammates in the United States Armed Forces.
I don't make political comments, and I certainly don't attack our media. So, I don't believe in censorship. I think we have the right to say whatever we want. And ladies and gentlemen, you get to decide whether you want to listen or not.
We go to war with values of our nation. We value women, we value families, and we value teammates and one another. And so that's why I had to say what I had to say. I will continue to say that. I continue to believe that. So those of you that have served or serving today, God bless you. Get your work out in. Semper fi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Semper fi is what he says. Always faithful. You see, that's what service is, and we know who the real patriots are. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
