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Don Lemon Tonight
President Biden On Tour To Sell His COVID Relief Bill; Republicans Focusing On Voter Suppression; Senator Ron Johnson Doubles Down On Claim That If It Were The BLM Movement And Antifa Who Went Into Capitol On January 6th, He'd Be Concerned For His Life; Trump Lies Echoed By Right-Wing Media; Two Men Facing Trials Over Officer Sicknick's Death. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 15, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): We've got to get the vaccine. We've got to get the information. We've got to track the science. And we have to be smart. And we'll have moments like the Chvalas.
Thank you for watching. Time for the big show CNN TONIGHT with the big star, D. Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I haven't seen my mom in over a year and after being home in quarantine, I would not suggest that she try to pick me up.
CUOMO: I could tell while I was watching that grandma's face that she had to sink with the knees a little bit more when trucks went in --
LEMON: She's like, whoa.
CUOMO: But you know what, for whatever reasons whether it's right or wrong, grandparents love to know that your kids are gaining weight.
LEMON: My gosh.
CUOMO: We all want to be the Chvalas.
LEMON: You are too skinny.
CUOMO: I know, right.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I hear it all the time with Mario. We all want to be the chivalas (Ph). We all want that moment.
LEMON: And we can be.
CUOMO: I called my mom in the break. You know, I'm going away next week. You know Bella just turned 18. She's the big shot.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: She's gotten to another college.
LEMON: Wow.
CUOMO: Got a scholarship to the first one. I said, we're done.
LEMON: Scholarship.
CUOMO: We're done. You are getting money. Go to that school. It's fine.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And that's when --
CUOMO: So we are going to go away for the break. Because you know, the kids have been denied so many memories.
LEMON: Yes. Yes.
CUOMO: And we see family a lot. I mean, you know, Don and I we see each other's families all the time. You have to understand.
LEMON: I saw your wife and son today. Why is he wearing leg weights?
CUOMO: How crazy.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Because he thinks he's going to gain weight.
CUOMO: I hope he's watching right now.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He's wearing ankle weights around because he thinks it's going to make him jack.
LEMON: He's like, he's like a bean pole. It's not going to happen. And listen, let me tell you about this. When I was his age --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- I would take weight gain powder. Right? Remember that was in you take a weight gain powder. And my mom said to me, she said, one day you are going to regret that. And now I need weight loss powder because, you know, it will come in time, Mario, relax.
CUOMO: He's built like Tarzan.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That guy. He's going to be great. He's got his mother's genes. Let me ask you something.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I had Natasha Alfred on.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: TheGrio smart. She says I know what they want. They want me to come on here and be all, you know, hot and angry about this and outraged about what Ron Johnson said. But no.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Because I know the game they're playing.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That bothers me. Everybody should be outrage by this unless he is really ignorant. And I have to tell you the combination of saying I don't need the vaccine, I have COVID and saying there is nothing about race when I say that white rioters don't bother me but black ones do. Maybe he's just ignorant. I mean, maybe he is. I know he is a U.S. senator.
LEMON: Maybe?
CUOMO: But, I mean, certainly wrong but maybe he doesn't get it.
LEMON: I was going to say, you took the words -- we've been together for way to long. You took the words way out of my mouth. Many people don't know. They don't think that they're being racist and that's exactly what it is. And they keep saying, he's racist, he's racist.
He doesn't know and in his mind it is OK to say -- that was his reality. Maybe he was not afraid, he probably was not afraid of the rioters.
CUOMO: I mean, look, he was the one pitching the big lie. He should have felt comfortable. He should have welcomed them with open arms.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Those were the guys he was telling them this is robbed, this is stolen, this is that. And then he is the one who said, what did he say about January 6th?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I don't know who it was.
LEMON: As James Baldwin said, he said that, he said two black people that they were going to have to help their white brothers and sisters because they were trapped in a history that they didn't understand. And Ron Johnson is trapped in a history that he did not understand.
He's come out of American soil that has taught him that what he is saying and what he believes, those thoughts that he had that it's OK, that it's right. And it is -- and he completely believes in his head. I believe that he does believe so that makes him ignorant.
I believe that he thinks that it's OK and that was his reality. That those white rioters weren't going to harm him --
CUOMO: Right,
LEMON: -- because they were a light-mind and complexion. But if they were Black rioters or Black protesters that he might be harmed not just because of a different complexion, because he believes that they have different believes and notice that --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But he also knows maybe he's not --
LEMON: But hang on, hang on.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
LEMON: But what is that? But what is that. That's racism.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
LEMON: That's the essence of racism.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
LEMON: Sorry, go on.
CUOMO: Absolutely. Maybe though he's just making us -- he's making a right play for him. Because the combination of these guys are better than the Black version of them works in that base. And the, they're coming after me, they're going to cancel me now, race card. That works too. That works too.
So, he's got the sword and the shield and I have to tell you, there is this nonsense that I haven't figured out how to get through yet. Where people will say about January 6, you weren't upset about that stuff last summer. So, what act of terrorism against the U.S. Capitol happened last summer. No, but all summer long they were running around, you know, doing all that violence and you didn't think it was bad then. And I would tell you the truth. That's --
(CROSSTALK)
[22:05:02]
LEMON: What was the act of provocation in the summer? Sorry, what was the act of provocation on the 6th?
CUOMO: Listen.
LEMON: Who were driving -- who were driving cars and instigating and trying to goad the protesters? None of that happened on January. Now I'm not saying --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Any --
LEMON: -- there wasn't violence this past summer. But to compare the two is really just bogus. There is --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Well, first of all, one was an act of terror and an insurrection of the U.S. Capitol that tried to stop the certification of an election. OK? That's a standalone. Now, I don't really care what the provocation was on one level. I absolutely believe that there is systematic and inequality. And we have problems with policing in communities that disproportionately affect minorities. Period.
I don't care why you choose to destroy a building or hurt a cop, you're a criminal, and you have become what you oppose at a minimum. But what I am saying is there is too much of a quickness in our country right now to say they did it, too. We are not united in the way we need to be in this country, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And it is very frightening to me because if it's not about race then why did you pitch that BLLM stuff as some arm of the Democratic Party that was coming to get you who's not BLM. Why is it that all the election frauds happened in black communities? Why is it that your January 6 wound up being something that is now being mala fide? Why is it that your response to the election is the biggest wave of suppression since Jim Crow? If it has nothing to do with race, why is it all about race on every level?
LEMON: I'm always asking those questions and so I think we'll leave it at that. I'll let you ask those questions and you at home --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: When I say it's really got a punch to it.
LEMON: No, no, no.
CUOMO: You say, it's kind of like, you know --
LEMON: No, no.
CUOMO: People don't get it when you say it.
LEMON: I don't think you should make fun of that. No, no. I'm being completely serious. I think those are pertinent questions to answer. And I think the folks out there --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: They are rhetorical questions.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: We know the answers.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They are living in abject denial of the answers. Ron Johnson knows that he's making the right play for himself.
LEMON: Yes, but Ron Johnson is ignorant and Ron Johnson is also racist. End of story. Period.
CUOMO: How about all the ones that didn't say anything in his party?
LEMON: And --
CUOMO: How about all the senators who let him say that? If I ever said anything like that, anything close to it, you wouldn't let me finish the sentence.
LEMON: No, I would come over to the next studio because you're in the next studio and --
CUOMO: And colleagues would jump up all over the place and say, what are you doing. That's not us.
LEMON: I got to run.
CUOMO: Nobody said anything. The silence. I'll be silent now but for a different reason. I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I love you too. Let's keep talking like this. It is uncomfortable for some people but not for us.
CUOMO: Not for us.
LEMON: Not for us.
CUOMO: It makes us better. It makes us to understand things. You are a great benefit to me. You are a gift in my life and I love you.
LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. Thank you, sir. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
So, guess what you all, there is some optimism, 100 million shots in arms. Amen. That's great. One hundred million checks in pockets. You keep asking where the good news is, there it is. One hundred million shots in arms, 100 million checks in pockets. Who doesn't want a check in the mail? I know I do. All in the next ten days. That's the promise from the President Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Over the next 10 days, we will reach two goals, two giant goals. The first is 100 million shots in people's arms, will have been completed within the next 10 days, and 100 million checks in people's pockets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): That's from the new president in office, just a little bit more than 50 days and the new Vice President Kamala Harris. In Las Vegas today with Americans getting some of those 100 million shots.
And while the president and the vice president are working to sell their desperately needed massive COVID relief plan to the American people, the Republican Party, the party of no, no, no, no! The party of cancel culture, Mr. Potato Head, Dr. Seuss doubling down on the racism again today.
We just talked about Ron Johnson. Remember this? Ron Johnson. Senator Ron Johnson defending the rioters who attacked the U.S. Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I knew those were people that love this country that truly respect law enforcement would never do anything to break the law, so I wasn't concerned. Now had the table been turned, and Joe, this will get me in trouble. Had the tables been turned and President Trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and Antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): This will get me in trouble. Had it been the Black Lives Matter protest, it might get him in trouble. He said it's not -- the answer is in, it's Black Lives Matter that you are afraid. Come on, brother. Being stupid?
[22:10:06]
We heard you. You heard him. He said he wasn't concerned about the Trump supporters who actually rioted at the capitol and hurt police officers. One of them died. But he would have been terrified, he would have been afraid if they had been Black Lives Matter or Antifa. Afraid if they had been Black Lives Matter or Antifa.
By the way, Black Lives Matter and Antifa did not riot at the capitol. You heard him. You heard him say that he knows that that would get him in trouble, he knows it will get him in trouble but he says it anyway. Because he wants people to hear it. He is not afraid. He wants to say the racist part out loud. Totally unrepentant today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: There is nothing racial about my comments. Nothing whatsoever. This is not about racist. This is about riots. I wasn't surprised but still pretty shocking that it would take what I consider completely innocuous comment and turn it into, you know, use the race card on me and, you know, say there is some kind of racist involve in that when there is none.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): You don't even -- he doesn't even believe that. Yes, you know, there's no. When somebody is talking like this, you know, with a smile. I mean, come on. They're just taking it. It's just, I'm just making this stuff up my head, this is the race card. I mean, come on, I'm not.
When somebody is smiling at you like this, you know what that means, don't you? That's not what I meant at all -- I mean, I'm siting flushing and perspiring and smiling through my teeth while I'm talking.
We didn't just follow up the turn up truck. I'm from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, I have seen that face and I've heard that voice for 50 some odd years. I know it when I see it and I know it when I hear it. Using the race card on him, seriously, Ron Johnson?
Let's remember it was rioters at the capitol who openly paraded the confederate battle flag. It's all about a deliberate attempt to normalized what happened on January 6th and there was nothing normal about it. Just say he wasn't concerned about the rioters who chanted hang Mike Pence, really?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): He wasn't concerned about them because they were law-abiding and they really took up and respect the law enforcement. They would never do anything to break the law like enter the capitol illegally. How do you normalize people like the army reservist? These are cases in point. OK?
The army reservist charge with storming the capitol a well-known white supremacist and Nazi sympathizer at the navy base where he worked who was even rebuked of his Hitler style mustache. How do you normalize that?
How do you normalize the two men arrested and charged with assaulting capitol police officer Brian Sicknick who died after they allegedly sprayed him with a toxic chemical? How do you normalize that? How do you -- how do you normalize that? I just, you know.
And let's not forget the blatant appeal to racism of Congressman Glenn Grothman. Claiming that Black Lives Matter doesn't like what he calls the old-fashioned family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. GLENN GROTHMAN (R-WI): I know the strength that Black Lives Matter had in this last election, I know it's a group that doesn't like the old- fashion family. Disturbed that we have another program here in which we are increasing the marriage penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I think we're all pretty clear on what he thinks that old-fashioned family looks like. The old-fashioned family he claims Black Lives Matter doesn't matter. He's another one just digging himself deeper and deeper and deeper into a hole.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GROTHMAN: Well, the tax credits were one more anti-marriage provision in the tax code. And when we have had such influence the Black Lives Matter, an organization when founded that has made clear on their web site that they're opposed to what they referred to as the western prescribed nuclear families. Nuclear families are of course worldwide. But I think it's important wo always point out that there are people who are anti-marriage who keep making anti-marriage provisions in federal law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:15:07]
LEMON (on camera): That was a long explanation that said nothing. See, it's all about the taxes code. And if you believe that, well, anyway, it's all about the tax code. And you got to wonder why congressman -- the congressman keeps bringing up Black Lives Matter. Because as far as I can see Black Lives Matter had precisely zero influence on tax code.
But there is something that bothers him about BLM and I wonder what that could be. Because he just keeps trying to defends his flat-out racist claim that Black Lives Matter doesn't like the old-fashion family. OK, you know, we like facts on this show.
The fact checkers at PolitiFact looked at what BLM actually says about families. And they want people to support one another beyond -- let me just get this quick -- they want people to support one another beyond the nuclear family and they call for family friendly spaces and equal rights for mothers.
So, if parents are working, maybe, grandparents step in or aunts or uncles, or sisters and brothers. Millions of families not just Black families, raise their children that. Right?
But the congressman, well, what the congressman wants to do is cast dispersions on them, wants to otherize them. He wants you to think that they are a threat to the American way of life. So, all that is going on, you saw on voting rights is happening right under our noses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STACEY ABRAMS, (D), FMR. GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: It is a redux of Jim Crow in a suit and tie. We know the only thing that precipitated these changes, it's not that there was a question of security. In fact, the secretary of state and the governor went through great pain to ensure America that Georgia's election were secure. And so, the only connection that we can find is that more people of color voted and it changed the outcome of election in a direction that Republicans do not like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, the GOP, what used to be the party of Lincoln is fighting to take away your voting rights. More than 250 bills nationwide to roll back voter access. To try to get, to make it harder for people to vote, to get fewer people to vote rather than as many as possible. Trying to disenfranchise votes. Mainly people of color who voted for Joe Biden.
Now think about this. And Chris said this to me today as we were talking and he made a very good point. Now all of these people and all of these places have voted for Donald Trump are Republicans, do you think they would be trying to change the laws? Huh? Nope.
And there it is again. It's racism. Right at the heart of this. As it is and so much of American life. It's been there from the very beginning. And we can't keep seeping it under the rug. We've got to do the work. You got to do the work. You have to do the work. You can't say I want to try to do something, what can I do, what can I do and then when people tell you what to do, you go, that's too hard.
Can't do it. I need something that's more practical and easy. You got to do the work. And you got to talk about this one on one, it's all about relationships. That's why I wrote my book. "This is the Fire: What I Say To My Friends About Racism." That's what it's all about. It starts with conversations. Conversations with people who don't look like you, who just need to talk openly and listen. Not that hard.
We can't keep sweeping it under the rug. So, like I said, racism is at the heart of all of this. Just look at the effort nationwide to disenfranchise voters. Most of them voters of color. You know who I want to talk to? I want to talk to the former vice president Al Gore. Is this going to get worse as Republicans try anything to get back into power? That's the question.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): So, President Biden is hitting the road tomorrow traveling to Pennsylvania as part of his administration's weeklong tour to promote the nearly $2 trillion COVID relief law that he signed last week. The president promising 100 million shots in arms and 100 million checks in pockets in the next ten days.
A lot to discuss now. The former Vice President Al Gore, the founder of the Climate Reality Project, and he joins me now. Mr. Vice President, thank you so much. It's an honor to have you on.
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you for having me, Don. And congratulations on your new book coming out tomorrow, "This is The Fire." Good luck with it, I know it is going to be great.
LEMON: Thank you very much, Mr. Vice President, that means a lot. Let's talk about this. I want to talk some policy with you, and I also
want to -- I know you have some strong feelings about this pipeline that is going through predominantly Black communities. But let's start with what the president is doing right now.
The president and his top aides are spending the next few weeks traveling the country trying to sell this $1.9 trillion rescue package. The bill is passed. So why is it the sales job that he's doing is so important?
GORE: Well, first of all, I am so proud of President Joe Biden. Really and truly this is not a partisan comment, Don. Our country needs this kind of leadership. I honestly think that he is off to a stronger start in the first 50 some odd days that of any president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
I really, I see it. And he's offering healing words to the country. He's trying to encourage people to get vaccinated, that's the answer to your question, he's going out there and promoting the vaccination program and making sure that the economic rescue is fully implemented.
LEMON: The next big battle, you know it's going to be over the GOP effort to restrict voting rights.
GORE: Yes.
[22:24:58]
LEMON: It is apparent that a lot of these bills target Black and brown voters, Mr. Vice President. Is this only going to get worse as demographics continue to change and Republicans are increasingly in the minority, their effort is going to pick up to try to disenfranchise voters especially those of color?
GORE: Absolutely. I mean, this is -- this is really and truly un- American, Don. It is a naked effort to try to suppress Black, brown and indigenous votes. Suppress any kind of votes from people who they think will not go for the far- right, you know, promote the interests of the wealthy program.
They -- you know, let me give them their credit. I think they actually believe that this country would be better if the wealthy and powerful had more control over all of the decisions. And that's an argument that's been raging in this country since the very beginning.
But history has proven that when we expand the right to vote and when more people vote and when all points of view and background and perspectives are all brought together, we make better decisions. That's been one of the secret strengths of America.
So, we need to expand access to voting. You know, everybody who is an American citizen ought to be automatically registered to vote. We ought to have voting on weekends instead of on, you know, Tuesday on a work day. We ought to have more absentee voting. There is no record of voter fraud, one or two little cases every once in a while.
We ought to invite everyone in to the voting booth and have everyone take part in helping to guide this nation.
LEMON: You know, we have -- we have seen how the filibuster has been in the past to try to derail civil rights legislation. Your father, a senator from Tennessee was in the Senate in the '60s when civil rights legislation was being filibustered? You served in the Senate yourself. Does the filibuster need to go, Mr. Vice President?
GORE: Absolutely. It has long since out run any justification. And yes. And it's been modified in the past. If they don't have the votes because, you know, senators from small states sometimes attempted to hang on to the filibuster not for ideological reasons. But they make exceptions to it. They ought to make at least make an exception for the protection of voting rights.
But here is another idea, and it comes from Joe Manchin, a man who I don't agree with him on a bunch of things but I really respect him a lot. And he recalled that great movie "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" with Jimmy Stewart, you know. And I remember as a boy when my father was in the Senate, they used to make him stand there and talk until they ran out of breath or, you know, couldn't stand up anymore.
Well, you know, why don't we go back to that rather at least, I mean, we ought to get rid of it all altogether. But if we took Joe Manchin's suggestion and just made them do it the old-fashioned way the way they used to, then we would have a better chance of the majority out lasting them and when they feel strongly enough about something like protecting voter rights, they can get it done.
LEMON: As if you are not passionate enough. As I mentioned in the top of program you want to talk about this issue because I know this is on your mind and on your heart. You were in Memphis yesterday.
GORE: Right.
LEMON (on camera): Protesting the Byhalia Connection Pipeline. We have picture of you out there right now. You were protesting it from being built through predominantly Black communities. Now here is how you described it and then we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORE: This pipeline project is a reckless, racist rip-off. When the pipeline representatives said this is the path of lease resistance. That was a gaffe because he told the truth accidentally.
(APPLAUSE)
GORE: Lease resistance? I see a lot of resistance here today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Plains All American is the company that's building this pipeline. They put out a statement saying that they chose to route across mostly vacant property. But speak to the larger issue here and despite for environmental justice, will you? GORE: Yes. Look, Black, brown, and indigenous people are far more
likely to have these polluting facilities located in their communities or adjacent to them. This is a not only historically significant overwhelmingly Black community. It's a Friedman's community. It's called box town because they built it in 1865 when the slaves were freed from the parts of the boxcars that had brought war materials from the union army down in the Civil War.
[22:30:06]
And they are running it right through this Black community. And their truth it's not the truth because it's not lease through assistance, but their truth is, they thought there would be less resistance there.
It's racist. It's also reckless, Don. Because Memphis had a million people who relied on 100 percent on drinking water from an aquifer directly underneath where they want to put this high pressure, giant oil pipeline, not for the benefit of this country but to take oil from the Permian base and fields in Texas and Oklahoma right through this black community over to another pipeline down to New Orleans where they can ship it to foreign countries.
All of the risk is on Memphis, and there has already been a threat to this aquifer. You know, ground water they think it's out of site and out of mind. Look at what's going on still in Jacksonville, Mississippi, mainly in the Black areas, there. They're still having to boil water because of the climate crisis has implicated in that hard freeze week two or three weeks ago where the water infrastructure couldn't be used anymore. So, they have to boil water.
That happened in Memphis too. And when this oil is send out there, it's burned and it adds to the climate crisis which is threatening the survival of human civilizations. So it is reckless, it's a rip-off because this oil and gas industry is going is losing its markets because solar and wind and electric vehicles are beginning to take over. They just want to rush up and get as many short-term profits as they can even though it puts this Black community at risk.
LEMON: The Byhalia Oil Connection Pipeline. We need to pay attention to that and other issues, similar issues going on especially through predominantly Black community. It's really, it's a sin. And I'm glad you are on top of it. We'll continue to report and we thank you for coming on tonight, Mr. Vice President. Thank you so much.
GORE: Good luck with your book tomorrow.
LEMON: Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
GOP Senator Ron Johnson doubling down about fearing Black Lives Matter more than the capitol rioters. I'm going to talk to John Kasich about it. He's next.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Senator Ron Johnson is doubling down on his defense of the violent mob who stormed our capitol.
Joining me now former Republican Governor of Ohio, John Kasich. Governor, good to see you. Thank you for joining us.
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
LEMON: So how can Senator Johnson say that there is nothing racial about suggesting -- I can't even get the question and you're laughing. How can he say nothing there's racial about that and he's, you know, and it's Black Lives Matter? I mean, what do you think?
KASICH: How can a guy make a statement like this? I mean, is he running again? I was -- we were talking about it tonight among some friends, the statement, one of my other friends were on a call and he read Johnson's statement and somebody said, is he running again?
I mean, I don't -- have any -- how could you say that I was never worried about these people who were rampaging in who by the way were involved in such violence in the capitol and then you say but I wasn't really worried about them, but if it was really Black Lives Matter, I would have been really freaked out. How does somebody -- how do they say that? How do they think that? It makes no sense to me --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And he said that they love this country.
KASICH: Yes. Well, you know what, he's off his rocker when he says this. I mean, I don't want to be -- you know what I mean. I just can't believe it. I mean, how do you say something like that. God bless the man.
You know, I don't wish him any harm, a curse by any stretch but how do you say something like this? I mean, people there he must be -- I'll tell you what I thought when I first heard it. Can you imagine the credibility that he's losing in the United States Senate? I mean, nobody is going to listen to this guy.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Well, I saw -- that's why I talk about the way he's talking through his teeth and you know, turning red or whatever. But I want to you about something else that's really important, about vaccine hesitancy.
This is a new CNN -- excuse me -- a new NPR/PBS/Marist poll. And it shows 49 percent of Republican men won't get the COVID-19 vaccine. Only 6 percent of Democratic male say the same thing. Why do you think the number is so high among Republican men?
KASICH: You know, there is some skepticism about this virus from the beginning. I ran into a friend of mine very smart guy who told me six months ago, when he says, you know, I don't -- I don't pay any attention, this is all hype up. And I don't understand. he says, why is it that people don't want to wear a mask? I mean, the first thing about the mask is you are protecting somebody
else not just yourself. And when you are not getting the vaccination, you know, then you're also potentially hurting somebody else. Don, one thing we got to focus on are these younger kids.
My daughter is 21 years old. You know. We got to make sure that when the time comes and they can get the vaccine they go and get it. It's really important that we don't have this kind of a drop-off.
And the interesting thing is, I just read an article yesterday about the effect in the southern Israel and how they vaccinated like 80 percent of the population. They're going to solve this. So, I can't tell you, it's just people that don't believe science, or don't believe authority, whatever. I think they're just wrong, and they need to get it and so did the young people.
LEMON: So, you will be happy to know that when the New York Times ask me which book was on my night stand, I said "It's Up To Us" by John Kasich. And then I also said "Ten Lessons for a Post-Pandemic World" by Fareed Zakaria. So, congratulations.
KASICH: Hey, Don. Here is the thing. What I try to say in that book is something that you and I have never really gotten into but I'd like to at some point.
LEMON: Sure.
KASICH: And that is we live in a culture of "I" and not a culture of "we." And when we look at politicians not doing their jobs, when we look at business rip-offs, when we look at abuse in sports, when we look at a media that's fixated on eyeballs, it's because we are in an "I" culture and not a "we."
[22:40:03]
In "we" we look at other people and we consider their worth, we consider their promise, we consider their pain and we celebrate them. We now live in this "I" culture and it has to change. And what I was saying in that book is that --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That's what Ron Johnson is saying.
KASICH: -- change has to come from the bottom up.
LEMON: Yes. It has to come from the people --
KASICH: You know.
LEMON: -- and it comes from relationship. Thank you very much, sir.
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: Yes. Similar message.
KASICH: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. Similar message. My new book, "This is The Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism." It's coming out tomorrow, so I hope you can check it out and John's book as well.
So, Republicans like Senator Johnson trying to downplay the capitol riot even as police make new arrests, including two suspects charged with assaulting Officer Brian Sicknick who died after the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:44:57]
LEMON (on camera): Tonight, new developments in the investigation of the death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick who died after defending the capitol during the January 6th siege. Two men appearing before a federal judge today charge with assaulting Officer Sicknick.
The fed investigators allege footage from police body cam show the two men spraying a toxic chemical at three officers including Officer Sicknick.
So, joining me now to discuss is CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, and Elizabeth Neumann, the former assistant secretary of homeland security.
Good evening to both of you. Evan what are we learning about these charges and the suspects involved here?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well these two men, Don, are charged are facing nine counts in total. Their names are Julian Khater, and George Tanios. According to the FBI, they're seen in some of the surveillance video as well as some of the body worn camera footage appearing to use some kind of chemical spray irritant.
Now this is not identified what exactly it is in the court documents. But I'm told that the investigators believe it is some kind of bear spray that it was used to overcome these officers. Now what we know about the events that day is that Officer Sicknick along with a couple other officers were sprayed with this substance. And then later on Sicknick goes back to his office, he fell ill and he's taken to the hospital. He dies the following day.
One of the things that's interesting is obviously these men are facing again, nine counts. They're charged with assault on Officer Sicknick and other two officers. There was not a murder charge, Don, that's partly because investigators are still waiting for the final medical examiner report that would show what the cause of death for Officer Sicknick is.
LEMON: Elizabeth, we expect more than 400 people will be charged before the riot investigation is finished. But you warn that extremely the 6th as a rallying cry. Are these arrests enough of a deterrent from maybe changing things or a possible future event?
ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR THREAT PREVENTION AND SECURITY POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: You know, I think it's extremely important and very helpful that these arrests are happening, that the FBI is transparent about what they are discovering. It's particularly around areas of conspiracy.
But sadly no. This is not going to be a deterrent. We are going to have individual actors in particular those are the hardest for law enforcement to detect because they tend to act alone, they are inspired by this movement. They may participate in online chats and get riled up and incited. And when they have targets of opportunity particularly as we reopen and we start to have mass gatherings I expect we'll see attacks.
And then we also have more organized groups and January 6th did serve as an opportunity to recruit into those organize groups and it did serve as this emboldening moment. And I think we're going to see as we reopen, other grievances take over, we've already seen some anti- vaccination attacks, some calls for attack on social media company for individuals.
So, their targets are varying depending on what the grievance of the moment is. But I think we are in this state of heightened alert for a while.
LEMON: Evan, listen, prosecutors revealing more information tonight about an allege rioter -- an allege rioter, his name is -- he's an army reservist. His name is Timothy Hale-Cusanelli who is being describe as a Nazi sympathizer. What do we know about him?
PEREZ: Well, Don, this is a guy who in his FBI interview --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Wait, are these pictures real? I mean, what?
PEREZ: Yes.
LEMON: And dressed like Hitler. OK, go on.
PEREZ: Yes. During his FBI interview he denied that he was a white supremacist but as you are showing right now, the FBI has the receipts, and so according to the affidavit, this is a court document that the FBI filed over the weekend.
They say that there was a navy investigation because he was a military contractor out of a base -- at a military facility in New Jersey. They interviewed, apparently, the navy interviewed 44 of his colleagues and 34 of them said that he held extremist or radical views pertaining to Jewish people and minorities and women.
So, it appears that there is something to the white supremacist and Nazi-type thing. Those pictures you were showing were apparently where he showed up wearing a Hitler mustache, and apparently nobody really thought of it until now.
LEMON: Yes. Elizabeth, my sentiments exactly. Thank you. Thank you both. I appreciate it. PEREZ: Thanks.
LEMON: Former President Trump unable to reach his base quite like he used to. But one host on the Fox propaganda network well, he is just filling the void.
[22:50:04]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Donald Trump is out of the White House permanently. Well, out of the White House permanently banned from Twitter and generally out of sight. But his steady stream of lies and distortions hasn't gone away. It can all be found every night on the Fox propaganda network, on Tucker Carlson show. Here's CNN's Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: Imagine if lying was your job.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Everywhere you look these days, there's Tucker.
CARLSON: A massive threat to the fraud industrial complex.
[22:54:55]
STELTER: With Donald Trump off Twitter and out of sight, Tucker Carlson is taking his place. Not in the White House, of course, but Carlson is like the new Trump will thrilling the MAGA base. Antagonizing liberals and setting the GOP's agenda.
CARLSON: The usual cancel culture gone mad.
STELTER: During the Trump years Carlson rose up the Fox ranks and became the highest rated performer on the channel while telling many of the same stories as the president.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The corrupt media.
CARLSON: They are the most corrupt left-wing mob.
TRUMP: Left wing mob.
STELTER: And that's what sells on right wing TV. Carlson used his power with Trump.
CARLSON: Can you get reelected if Google is against you?
TRUMP: So, you know, I've been hearing that about Google and Facebook and Twitter.
CARLSON: Yes. That's right.
TRUMP: OK?
STELTER: Yes, Trump was hearing it from Tucker. For years and years, Trump echoed the propaganda that he heard from Fox News.
TRUMP: What is happening last night in Sweden --
STELTER: Even conjuring up in imaginary terror attack due to a Tucker segment fear mongering about immigration in Sweden. But now trump is off the rally stage and Carlson is on.
UNKNOWN: The Pentagon condemns Fox News host Tucker Carlson for his comments about women serving in the U.S. military.
STELTER: Daily outrages and memes make their way from Carlson's show to social media, offending millions, delighting others, generating news and often stoking distrust even about vaccines.
CARLSON: His plan consisting essentially of vaccines, vaccines and more vaccines.
STELTER: Carlson turning Biden into a boogeyman after last week's address to the nation. Mocking his vision of small gatherings on Independence Day. Acting like Biden is a dictator.
CARLSON: We might have to rescind that right but it's possible if you're obedient you'll get it. Who are you talking to? This is a free people. This is a free country. How dare you tell us who we can spend the Fourth of July with.
STELTER: Every day Carlson finding a new way to take up space and political brains. That sounds a lot like a recently retired president, doesn't it?
UNKNOWN: Tucker Carlson.
JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN: It's Tucker Carlson.
JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: I'm pretty sure Tucker Carlson spent the last 12 hours foaming at the mouth.
STELTER: And all of this may benefit Carlson. He's under a long-term contract but that has not stopped the Tucker 2024 chatter.
UNKNOWN: And here are the results.
STELTER: In this scientific CPAC straw poll of party loyalists, Carlson had fans.
UNKNOWN: Governor Kristi Noem in second place followed by Don Junior, Mike Pompeo, Ted Cruz, Tucker Carlson.
STELTER: Leaving many critics feeling like they have to take on Carlson's odious arguments even while giving him more attention. A dilemma John Oliver addressed on Sunday. Oliver concluded with this.
JOHN OLIVER, HOST, HBO'S LAT WEEK TONIGHT: What Tucker Carlson show sells in addition to utterly terrible pillows is very seductive. It's the idea that this country is fundamentally color blind. That anyone who mentions race is just trying to start trouble. That historic oppression is no longer relevant, and that in fact, you, his viewers are the ones currently being oppressed.
STELTER: Brian Stelter, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Brian, thank you so much. Team Biden crisscrossing the country to sell the president's COVID relief package. But Republicans are focusing on something else entirely, voter suppression.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
